Colin Cowherd Podcast - Nick Wright on Reese/Clark Fallout, Lamar Market, Bryce Young Debate

their leanings, they show you their temper. I'm always amazed at people who think they're invisible on Twitter. For the record, folks, we have thirty employees now and growing at the volume. I've literally not hired people because of how they act on social media. Watching the media on this Caitlin Clark

Angel re situation was really striking. One of the reasons I think women's basketball is so much better today than twenty years ago is because it's feisty and there's a little trash talk, and it's a little chippy, and there's a little more physicality pushing and shoving from time to time. That's the ultimate sign of growth because we've had that men's basketball forever. Women's basketball more than any sport in this country has improved over twenty five years. More young

women are being encouraged to be athletes. It's always been cool, but a lot of people didn't get it and didn't encourage women. When you watch LSU and you watch IOWA, the people that rushed to Caitlin Clark's defense because of some taunting by Angel Reese time out. That's called one road trip for Patrick Beverley. We don't rush to NBA men's defense. It's part of au it's part of college basketball,

it's part of now all basketball. Nobody took a swing, Nobody tried to physically intimidate Caitlin Clark, and let's stop there. Do you understand to get to the highest levels of any form of basketball, women's basketball, do you understand how tough you have to be, how resilient you have to be. Do you know how competitive Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese are since they picked up a basketball, people try to intimidate them, box them out, get chippy. That's called basketball.

I watched Larry Bird track talk and Gary Peyton trash talk. If you really respect women, then allow them the same freedoms that we allow men. Verbal sparring is part of the sport. I watched Doctor j and Larry Bird throw punches at each other. It didn't end their careers. They were able to overcome it. Ten minutes later, Caitlin Clark when asked about Angel Reese, I'll read you the quote. We're competitive, we show emotions in different way. She's tremendous.

I have nothing but respect for I love her game. The way she rebounds, scores the ball incredible. I'm a big fan of her. Stop pandering. She's okay, She's tough, she can handle it. Show the same respect you would a guy playing basketball. He can handle some trash talk. You know. Years ago, I work with somebody named Christine Leahy. She did the herd Line news update and she was in like her mid twenties, and LaVar Ball came on the show and started took some verbal shots at her.

Didn't try to physically intimidate her, but took some verbal shots at her. And I didn't rush to her defense because she immediately landed two or three of her own verbal shots, and I didn't want to make her look weak. I thought the ultimate sign of respect to either Jason McIntyre Christine leahy Joy Taylor is their equals. They can handle some sparring and trash talk. I mean, I have strong opinions about athletes. Can I not handle a strong

athlete having an opinion about me. The point is, if you really respect women, then you have to respect them enough to understand they can handle it. Right, they can handle it. Caitlin Clark's fantastic. Angel Reese is fantastic. I don't want to hear about Well, when the last time that you saw a winning team taunt a losing player? Oh, I don't know. All throughout the college football season. I mean, you kidding me? In these rivalries, I remember Baker Mayfield

grabbing his junk on the sideline. I got guys at the coin toss talking trash in college football. One of the most amazing parts of the women's Final Four. What about chippiness, well, intimidation, people trying to get into each other's heads. Women's basketball's officially arrived. They can defend themselves. Caitlin Clark's going to come back. She's going to be an All American. I will probably be one of the

favorites to win the national championship. But to get to the top of even college sports, college baseball, college women's men's basketball, college football, all a wrestling. It doesn't matter what it is. Do you know how tough and resilient you have to be as an athlete, a man or a woman. Show the women respect. The NBA Playoffs are upon us. Twenty teams get in all trying to get that one crown. For last minute amazing deals to watch

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dollars off your first purchase. Terms apply. Download the game Time app, enter the code colin cli N for twenty dollars off. Here we go. NBA Playoffs, Baseball season just starting here in April. NHL as well. No matter where you live, get out, have some fun this week and this year. Download the game time app, last minute ticket deals, lowest prices guaranteed. So let's welcome in Nick Wright. You know him, you love him. First things first, what's right

with Nick Wright? So I was standing in my six seven minute preamble to you? Is the ultimate respect to women as they can handle themselves, and that Caitlin Clark is not a lamb to be able to get to the highest level of any Division one sport baseball, football, hockey, wrestling, women's basketball. You've been mocked, you've been taunted, you've been boxed out, you've probably taken a punch. These women are

feisty and they talk trash. And the ultimate respect isn't rushing to their defense, it's realizing they can handle her. She's nobody's underdog. Colin Listen, Angel Reese is awesome. Angel Reese is Some of the people commenting like, oh who is Angel Reese? To trash talk. She was the fourth leading scorer in that game. She also set the all time record for double doubles in a season, was the first team All American, was the MVP of the Goddamn Tournament.

So Andrew Reese when they win the championships, allowed to talk trash if she wants. Now, Caitlyn Clark was the best player in the country, and I know for some people, because of Angel Reese's race and size, they looked at her talking trash different than cait Clark talking trash. It's nonsense, and Caitlyn Clark didn't ask for anybody's protection. Caitlyn Clark dished it out, knew she could take it the whole thing.

And what I find so there is the reaction to the trash talk with I know you talked about We've talked about everywhere. To me, there was there were obviously an obvious, massive racial component to who is and who

is not allowed to trash talk. But then there is the what could have been action of the trash talk, the bigger story, which is the success of this tournament and can women's basketball at the collegiate level become women's tennis which is on par if not at times exceeded the interest in men's tennis, because we as a country have shown we will watch women's sports if there is it's not an inherent sexism, like we won't watch women's sports. What we need is to feel like we're watching the

best product possible. And I feel like in tennis, the men's serves became so powerful that there wasn't serve and volley plus then all of a sudden, Serena comes around and you have a massive American starts like a perfect storm. It's like, it's a better product, it's more entertaining, all

of it. Women's college basketball is a better product than men's college basketball, Flatland, because the things you need, which is consistency of roster, continuity stars, are there in the women's college game in a way they're not in the men's game. And I think women's college basketball can have a huge moment here because that LSU team scored one hundred and two points in a regulation college basketball game.

San Diego State one't going to score one hundred and two last night if they got a third half by themselves. And no disrespect, but I guess that's a little dispect to them. It there is. Just it's a hell of a product. The shop making awesome. And yes, we understand you're not gonna get the same level of athleticism you get from the men's game. We can go to the NBA for that. And I like the attitudes. I like

the personalities. I like the stories. I really my daughter and my youngest daughter, who's of my two daughters, a bigger sports fan, has asked me, you know, why don't I watch more women's sports? And I've never had like the greatest answer for her. She's nine, and I was like, we can go to some w NBA games, but the w NBA versus the NBA one is just clearly from basketball wise, a superior product. But the female college games were awesome. They were. And here's the other part of it.

I wonder if with n I L. Colin, if there's not way more money playing in college then going to the w NBA. I wonder if for Caitlin Clark, can she not make more money like whatever her sponsors will be, wouldn't they prefer she'd be staying in college as long as possible because those ratings, more viewers, more everything then at the w NBA level. So I think that sport can really have a moment right now. I really do. Yeah, And I think the men's final four, the women blew

out ratings. The men's was one of the least watch because you had underdogs and between the transfer portal and men's college basketball and the one and done culture. You can't name any starters. The average college fan this morning couldn't name two players for San Diego State and they were in the title game. And I do think that doesn't it doesn't completely puncture the NBA. But mobility. Adam Silver's always been more concerned about it than I would.

But I think one of the reasons the Warriors continue to get the best TV ratings and the Celtics are right behind them is because it's the same group of core group of guys for like six years, and that really matters. That's why Brooklyn had all these stars and terrible ratings. By the way, the Lakers last three years, I've had terrible ratings because the rosters constant influx well, and the NBA doesn't need to do a better job in my opinion of marketing its next generation steps thirty five,

Lebron's thirty eight, you know what I mean. Durant's an old thirty four because of the injuries, like you're gonna You're really living ratings wise off a group of players who should not still be excellent, you know, they're very The fact that Lebron's going on twenty years of super high level play and relevance that's borrowed time and now maybe they're gonna try to transfer that to Brownie, But

that's a hell of a bet they're making. Well. The other thing, what can we take Sometimes I will see a business out there with the volume we have over thirty employees now, but I'll see a smaller business and I'll say, oh, I like what they're doing. So I think you see this with big companies all the time. They look and see what young ascending companies do. And what can the NBA take from college sports? Well, the

quality isn't close, but the urgency is amazing. And if I was Adam Silver, you cannot have seven game first round series if you're looking for upsets, which clearly clearly the urgency and the sudden death nature of college men's basketball. Some of these ratings in the early part of this

tournament between no name teams get huge numbers. So I think if you want to pass the baton from the veterans to the kids, you gotta have some shorter series where sometimes a young team comes in with hutspun energy Memphis and upsets a really good team that now we know over time that young team in the NBA won't win for a series, but I do think the NBA playoffs could use more upsets well, or let me give because the counter to the that will always be how

much more? How much benefit are we getting from less revet and less inventory of our most valuable time of the year, which is postseason games? Right, Someone give me an actual answer why of all sports the NBA has not gone to drafting your playoff opponent. You want the regular season and matter if you are the one seed, if you are denber, if you have earned it. Once the field is set, you pick who you play. That would be a massive reward. And if you're the two seed,

you get you get to pick next. As opposed to what we're gonna have happened, which is now, all of a sudden, you're gonna have I can't it's gonna be unbelievable to watch. In these final one hundred and twenty hours of the season, the Lakers have been fighting like hell to avoid play in and now, honest to God, I believe they might on the final day of the season be the sixth seed and risk falling back into the play in to avoid moving up to the five,

where they have to play Phoenix. You know what I mean, You're gonna have the Lakers, Warriors, Clippers in like this staring contest of who wants to play, like who wants to guarantee they're not in the play in. But if you do that and the other two teams take the night off, you now all of a sudden, congrat you avoid the play And here's Kevin Ryan and Devin Booker in round one. Let these teams draft their playoff opponent. It would so let me get in the East a

team that I know you've liked historically, Boston. Boston has been better than Philly. Boston has not, over the course of the year, been better than Milwaukee, but they did beat them twice by forty points. You know what, Boston's big reward for their season is gonna be Miami in round one. Congratulateuculations Boston. You know what I mean? Yeah, Philly, who's been worse than them. Philly's gonna get a shell

of a Brooklyn team. And it's like, Okay, Mikail Bridge is a nice player, but that's fine, that's absurd, It's ridiculous. Let and that would add Injurgue and it would add import to the regular season, and every first round series would feel like a grudge match because the team would be like, you picked us, Why did you pick us right? Why didn't you be it? So I wish they would do that. I've encouraged that for all across all sports, but nobody, the leaguees don't want to do it. Well.

I do think they're gonna do a mid season tournament in the NBA. I think what's happening. Analytics, to be honest, do not always help sports. In baseball, it slowed the sport down right. It was home runs, it was strikeout. It was like does anybody hit a single anymore? So they finally got rid of the end by the way, more singles, more stolen bases, more plays at the plate, more action. The ratings are up, the games are better,

more of everything. But I do think the NBA, the analytics are telling general managers rest your stars because this sport is so taxing. So in baseball, you go into a town and you hang out for four days and a third of the team doesn't play. They're in the bullpen. But in basketball and hockey, and especially basketball, because you're not on the ice for forty five seconds, then off a player who's abnormally large anyway, right, Like a seven foot one guy who travels, going to be harder for him,

regardless of the plane. So he's going to play forty minutes both ends, burn through seven thousand calories, get on a plane, land in a city at four in the morning, go to bed, quickly, get up, shoot around. Frankly, have you seen old basketball players. They're all ben over, they all look like hell. So the analytics are telling you

play stars less. So even though this minimum number of games for awards sounds like on its spaces, it will solve it for a veteran player, He's not gonna a veteran glass by the way, Yannis, he doesn't care about awards anymore. He wants to be healthy for the Celtics play. Yeah. I don't know that there's a solve. It is because it's the constant conflict between the GM and this cross sports.

The GM slash head coach whose only incentive and obligation is winning an ownership in the league, who theoretically should only incentive should be we're an entertainment product. How do we maximize our entertainment value? Like the only thing I could compare it to is the schedule. I live in New York City. The Broadway schedule is insane. You get Monday's off, still do seven shows a week. Hey, they're two and a half hour shows, right, and a lot of these. There's a show I went to with my

you know, my daughter's a senior in high school. She's a theater major. It's what she wants to go into. Show called Funny Girl, the Fanny Bright Story. The main character, the star of it now is this girl from Glee who is legitimately fuhnomenal. And the moment she signed up to do it, tickets through the roof. They you know, they announced she's not doing Thursdays or whatever, but she's doing every other show they do. My guess is I can't prove this, but she probably would be slightly better

if she was only doing three shows a week. But Broadway understands our entire purpose is entertainment. We're not competing, you know, we are here to entertain the audience therefore make money. So you are out there every single night.

Can you imagine if if Broadway had the same type of thing in the NBA, It's like, well, well, you know, we've looked at it, and she's really only going to be able to peak performers on three days a week, and we're not going to tell the audience any idea what three days those are going to be until they show up and to kill him. And so I don't know what it is. I don't know what the solve is.

The NBA keeps trying to do it, but I don't think Adam Silver is quite a harsh enough hand to force it because he's in a partnership with the players. But this does go ahead because I have a different question, But go ahead, well, because I don't think there is a solve, and that's okay. NASCAR's audience is old. Every sport has a hole and a problem. NASCAR's sport is old. How solvable is it. NFL's got a concussion issue, it's grown men tackling each other. It's not going away. Baseball's

got a pace issue and a lack of scarcity. There's a billion games that's not going away. Hockey relevance. Gretzky helped a little briefly college basketball one and done culture. The truth is the NBA problem like every sport. Cricket had a pace problem, Soccer, there's just so few elite players that if you get one and you face teams that don't have one, you just dominate for a decade. So I don't feel bad for the NBA because it I think you can mitigate some of the issues, but

every sport has an issue. This is really the primary one for the NBA stars sitting you won't completely solve it, but I think like concussions, less hitting in practice, better helmets, it will take out about thirty percent of it. And for the record, if you give me thirty percent more stars playing, it won't be on talk shows because they've got a ten years ago and it was never a

topic that you know that's correct, all right. One. I don't know where else you want to go, but when you're talking about college basketball and then resting guys brought me to something that I mentioned on TV today that I want your thoughts on. All right. So everyone saw the Victor winban Yama highlight. The seven foot five alien did a step back three missed it, went and got his own dun got his own put back dune. I also saw a video of the pregame workout he does

for his feet. He does like these foot stretched things to whatever to try to keep his feed healthy. And then I saw this quote from a Western Comers general manager saying, we're all gonna feel like idiots for not tanking for this guy. I am quietly very concerned, and my entirety, the entire reason for my concern is literally, never have I ever seen someone taller than seven three not be ravaged by injuries ever, not once. And this guy is going to be playing on the perimeter yea,

with on that type of wear and tear. Colin, I don't care how far back we have to go. Ralph Sampson his feet killed him, Rick Smith's or Vitas Sabonis Yao Ming Sam Booth And I don't know if he was seven that's quite as tall. But yeah, Greg Odin who wasn't quite as tall. Durant even had the Jones fracture and now seems to be breaking down a little porzingis all of them? Forget the super tall guys you met minute Ball and some of those guys that dealt

with some tragic stuff. I everyone is talking that people are like, he would go number one in the draft if Lebron were in it. Guys. The thing is, I get it. If you tell me, Wimben Yama's gonna be healthy for fifteen years. Yeah, he's one of the three greatest prospects ever, maybe the best prospect ever. I don't know, but I have seen I am so when chet was coming out, I was like, Yeah, it's the skinniest player I've ever seen, and we got wild and Brew killed

me for it on the show. I was like, skinniest player I've ever seen. He played one summer league game against Lebron and we've never do We've never seen him yet. Since then, Wimby concerns me because when you're so tall, your agent is lying about your height in the other direction. Alarm bells go off for me because I don't know, man, I just what makes him so special is what would terrify me. And here is the reason I was thinking about it. Team. Have the Pelicans helped or hurt Zion?

I don't know. I know they've been as cautious as possible. He's played one hundred and twenty games in four years. Maybe you can tell me if they were, you know, more old school with him, he's he'd be out of the league by now. Hard time believing it. I think maybe that the being so cautious with everything with him has not been the best for him. I can totally see the same thing happening with this kid. He comes into the league, has a little minor thing, they're like, oh,

give it six weeks. Like, I don't know. It makes me nervous. It makes me nervous. Yeah. Yeah. We just recently came to terms with size matters for quarterbacks. I remember pushing back on Kyler Murray and like, guys, he's significantly smaller than everybody else, Russell Wilson, anybody's ever been. And I remember very early an All Pro defensive lineman in the NFL who I know played him year one and said, brother, he's not going to be in this league seven years. He does not like to get hit.

He goes, I hit him, he wins. Does that worry about absolutely? But I have another theory on that. So people were very uncomfortable. I didn't like Baker Mayfield. I said, as a one, he's too small. He's not that. So we're coming to terms with Drew Brees was the outlier that size matters and quarterbacks. I said the same thing about chat Holmgren. I said, if I had one pick, I wouldn't take him. But Oklahoma City had so many picks, so he's such a physical uniform unicorn. You owe it

to yourself to take take the take the fire. I'm fine with it. I just I don't like most or least, biggest or smallest anything basically, right, Yeah, I like that, and I know I can get burnt on it. But this is and I'm curious what your theory on Bryce is. Because Bryce is clearly the best on film prospect, it's not even arguable. But then I'm like, wait, they're saying

he's thinner than Guyler. I don't know if I think he might be undraftable for me, Like he's so small, so I that he's too small, like the biggest and the smallest just concerns me. I want to see someone else do it first. What's your theory on Bryce? Okay, okay, So my theory is you can't treat every investment like a four oh one K. So a four oh one K you put money into and never take it out until you retire. But you can also day trade stocks. You can buy stuff and sell it. You can flip houses.

There's a lot of equities and there's a lot of investments that aren't built for long term, and those are also excellent investments. So not every quarterback you draft is built for ten years. But if Carolina said to themselves, listen, our doctors say you're going to get three really good years out of him and buy year four Hill deteriorate to stabilize the organization, wouldn't you still take him? Oh that's interesting, it's ye. So what you don't want to

be in the NFL is Indianapolis a wreck. But in that division in the NFC, Frank Reich's a good coach, you bring him and by the second year you draft a quarterback in the sixth round. The third year you draft one in the fourth round, the fourth year you draft one in the second. The Patriots every other year drafted a quarterback with Brady. There's an argument to be

made you should draft a quarterback every year anyway. But if you believe Bryce is the best quarterback, and if you just got three years, which for any size is small, I mean, I think two is going into the year four. Let's say let's say realistically, Kyler gives you two more years and then retires and goes, I'm done. Well, you had Josh Rosen and everybody was getting fired and Kyler

got into the playoffs. And so it's like, Chet Holmgren, if you told me where you're gonna get four really good years from him, forty percent of the first round of the NBA is a bust. So that's interesting that it's just you're looking at it as and three years. I don't know if it would just three years, I

think that would concern me. But if you're like, hey, this guy's going to give you his full rookie contract, his fifth year option and one franchise tag and you're never gonna have to give him the massive deal and you're going to instantly be relevant, have the quarterback on the route on the cheap deal, That's something I've never really considered that idea, but that I just and by

the way, and maybe he defies the odds. Maybe he is Drew Brees, and you know, because he is so accurate and seems like such a good kid, it just seems like so small in a big man's game. You mentioned the Colts and you asked me on the show today about Lamar, would you Peter King said that he believes that the Ravens would just give you Lamar straight up for the fourth pick. Would you do that if you were Indie? Just a four pick for Lamar Jackson,

number four overall pick this year's draft. You give them that, and you gotta give Lamar deal. Peter King says he thinks the Ravens would say yes today, They wouldn't try to match. They wouldn't fourth overall pick Lamar straight up if I would hurt me, yes, because I think in the NFC he would dominate. In the AFC, he'll make you very viable. And and I also think that Indies

in a situation now we're at best. They're going to get the third best quarterback unless somebody leaps them in a bad quarterback class or Lamar jack Lamar Jackson, and you just and you can take a deep breath and say we're off this damn treadmill. So I think the Lamar conversation has been so I don't know that any conversation has ever frustrated me more because it it seems like to me obvious where he is as a player. He is clearly not a top five quarterback in football,

just clearly not. And I understand anyone of unanimous MVP get it. I understand that some of the folks will be like, here are just his passing stats, not his rushing stats. I'm like, honestly, I give a shit. I watched the games. I know he's not a great passer. I know he's not. I know there are you know, Mahomes, Burrow, Trevor Herbert, Allen, those five guys are better than him. I understand Justin Herbert doesn't. If Justin Herbert were, it's like, hey,

you can have him for two first round picks. There is somebody would offer him a contract. By now. I know this to be true. Right, there's those five guys, right. I also know that right now, if you're actually ranking quarterbacks going down the list, Dak Prescott's like tenth and Dak. I think Lamar is better than Dak. You might say Dak Beret and Lamar whatever it is worse. Lamar's the tenth best quarterback. So he's not one of the absolute

no brainers. He's still better than twenty starters. So, like, let's all take a deep breath. Teams are so desperate for quarterbacks to give Daniel Jones forty million a year for four years. So again, so is he perfect? No? Is he hurting? Himself by not having an agent. I think unquestionably yes, is it frustrating that he hasn't the passing wise, he's actually awesome as some of the really hard stuff. It's the layups that he's not great at,

has never gotten great at. And it's frustrating. Sure, But does it still seem baffling to me that a team like Detroit isn't like hm, we damn near me the playoffs with Jared Goff. We have extra first round picks. We're in the soft conference, in a division that next year the most established quarterback is going to be Kirk Cousins. Yeah, we'll pay Lamar Jackson and maybe go to the super Bowl. Even though he's not perfect. I do think there's something else.

So we both admit his unorthodox personal representation hurts and that the injuries really hurt. There is a third thing that an executive in the league told me about a year ago is that if you bring him in, you better go find a backup that works for him if he gets hurt. And it's a different offense than your typical offense, so you've got to make some real staff changes. And if he's a franchise guy, you got to sign,

you got to bring in a whole new group. And it's almost like in our space, there's people that do play by play, and there's people that are analysts, and then there's guys like you and I that are opinionists and generalists. What we don't work doing games or hosting a show, right, you have to bring in people who create topics for you and I. So Lamar is unique and that he's not your classic drop pack, but he's

a better thrower than you think. He does have an injury issue one of them, kind of freaky in the pocket, but he's got such a dynamic style of which you should absolutely lean into that there is a okay if we bring him in an indie Okay, Shane Steiken, what do you have to do to your staff to do this? And so now I'm not saying there aren't a lot of things you can't do with Lamar you can do

with other quarterbacks, but he is such I listen. I talked to Sean Payton about Russell Wilson when he was not the Broncos coach, and I said, what would you do? And he said, I'd get him back to playing basketball on grass. He goes Russell's at his best playing basketball on grass. Well, that's not Drew Brees. So you're literally bringing in staff and people and personnel that work with basketball on grass. So mars that to I would say,

an even hyper version of that. So he's a very I guess what I'm saying is the downside to unique is that you have to build people to support unique, correct, and it's not as easy, none of it's That's why Listen. Do I think the league as a whole doesn't want to do guaranteed deals? Obviously? Do I think the owners might be, you know, at the owners meetings asking around, you're not gonna You're not doing guaranteed We're not We're not going down there. You know the Brown screwed us,

We're not going further. Sure, So do I think there is that level of collusion if you sure? But as I said before, if Trevor Lawrence, we're done with his contract, franchise tagged, and for the whole league, it was like Trevor was like, Hey, I want a fully guaranteed deal and it's gonna cost two first round picks. Five of these teams would have said, I don't care who gets mad at me? I'm doing. So part of the reason there hasn't been a hot Lamar market is because of

the things that you're talking about. There are some limitations and it is not simple, but there is still a massive instant upside, particularly for an NFC team where going into next year the best quarterback in the conference. I think Jalen Hurts has earned that, but he's only shown to us for one year, and then after that it's Kirk and sorry, it's Stafford coming off an injury, or Dak or whomever. We have no idea, and so that

part of it is it is. And my theory on that is I think most of these teams are waiting until after the draft because if you're like, if we sign Lamar, we're going to be better, So our pick in the future years will be worse than the pick this year, so might as well spend our you know, use our pick this year, and then the two first round picks we'd have to give up are going to

be in the twenties or whatever it is. I also think when I saw the report that the Patriots were shop mac Jones, that I'd keep an eye on Belichick. And I'm glad I've brought that up. So it's interesting and I'm going to use our business again as a comp So you were given a shot at FS one and you have succeeded. But it does matter that you've

had success as your first big syndicated cable opportunity. If you would have failed, there's a chance you would have never gotten a second opportunity, right, same for me at ESPN Radio. If I tank, i'm my careers, I go back to doing local radio, and there's a big gap between local and where I've ascended to. So Mac Jones,

I defend. I disagree with Eric Mangini on this. So Belichick is still pissed off that Mac Jones sought help outside of the building last year when they gave him Joe Judge as a quarterback coach and Matt Patricia as a coordinator. And I thought, had I gone to ESPN because in the NFL, Drew Brees is an outlier. You bomb in the first one star quarterback, you don't get

a second chance. Mostly so, and this isn't Deshaun Watson, who did star in Houston, had personal issues, but what we knew he could play, So had I gone to ESPN replacing Tony Kornheiser, and they would have given me a sales guy to help with content, not taking it seriously. And I bitched to my boss and he wouldn't listen. My only out would have been delete it to the press.

What a shit show management was. So I told Mangini, I understand there's this sense that, well, mac Jones, he's not allowed at this point in his career and might take away his time out, time out, time out. His career is three years, uf it up. He's going to be viewed as insignificant and people will never give him a franchise job again. So they literally Belichick takes this big wild zany swing Max, like the hell you're doing that,

I'm a quarterback. Nobody else has to deal with this, and he starts leaking shit right, he's losing the locker room. So the mac Jones situation's interesting is that I kind of I thought of my ESPN days. I thought, the hell do you do if this iconic coach is effing you? Yeah, okay, so I hear you. Let me give the counterpoint to that, because you're right that if you had failed to ESPN, your career goes differently or whatever. But I also know enough about the business and know enough of where you

were when you got that job. You were not quite Mac Jones. You were closer at that point to Joe Burrow. You were going to get a huge opportunity somewhere and had massive success at a bunch of places. What listen I said for I'm not trying to be humble here because I said for years before you knew me, that I was the second best radio guy in the country. I was twenty seven years old saying it, saying second

only to you. So I always believed I was extraordinary, but I was just kind of doing okay ratings wise in Houston. When I got the shot on at FS one, I was not the first overall pick, just like Mac wasn't. And so let you if you are Bill Belichick in this example, and I am Mac Jones and you say I Colin Coward, successful for twenty years, I want you to come work with me. Trust me, Nick. I know it might not make a lot of sense to you,

but I need you to follow this. And my first year doing it, I overachieved, and my second year, Ye're like, I want to try some new things, and I'm out there trademark in my name doing the gritty after segments, and I'm like, man, fuck this old man. Know anything, I got my career to think about. You might be like, your career exists because of me, asshole? What do you do it? And when I when I put you on the bench and I had someone else hosting Zappy, all

of our ratings went up. So maybe you need to go work somewhere else and see see how that works for you. So I understand that the that Mac maybe was frustrated. I also understand Belichick maybe thinking, Buddy, you can't throw the ball thirty five yards in the air. I can't trust you throw a hail Mary. So did I maybe make a mistake with the having the special

team's coach and the astrophysicists be your offensive coordinator? Sure do I need you constantly showing up my coaches, throwing things, yelling at people when you have not been part of the solution. And the thing that really hurts Mac. And there's the point I keep making on the show. The Patriots had two games last year where they scored twenty eight points. They were the two Bailey's Appy starts. It sound like those games, Josh McDaniels came back for a

cameo appearance. Who's the same stabs, the same everything. And so I also think Belichick knows well he should know. Even if Mac reaches his full potential, will it will be a day in his life. Mac Jones is better than Mahomes, Alan Burrow, Herbert Lamar, if he stays Trevor Lawrence. Now we're at six in his conference, DeShawn. If DeShawn ever comes back, who knows, you know, comes back to where he was? If you know, there's Russell Wilson, There's

Aaron Rodgers. There's two of guys who all they're upside that they have shown in their careers. Are there is a possibility his best case scenario is eighth the best quarterback in his own conference. I'd be looking for an up grade, you know what I mean? I would if I were Bill, and maybe Mac wants it. I don't think Mac is a special talent, and so I could be wrong on that. I just I've never watched them be like, Wow, that guy's got it. I've never thought

that that was good pushback. You probably won that one. Well that's just because I called Ju Belichick and I was Mac Jones and that's that's easy to win the debates. I just played the people's ego and never lose them. So you have been, by the way, you're in New York City. I don't know if you could hear the pro trunk. Can I tell you something interesting real quick about that. New York is fascinating in this regard. So I didn't live here. When was the Super Bowl here

a decade ago? I don't know. I was here for the game, but I didn't live here. Obviously. I was doing local radio in Houston, and we came and did the Super Bowl and every all the New Yorkers. Now, maybe that's because the actual games in Jersey. I don't know. That's what I didn't know. But they were like, yeah, you can't tell the games going on. It doesn't it's not Super Bowl week. It's just a week in New

York City. Man, When I tell you that, every part of today in New York City felt like every other day I've been in New York City. Now I wasn't. I'm sure at the courthouse it felt like a big thing, but and in the surrounding few block area. But there is a weird part and a kind of today to me and I'm not a New Yorker. I mean, I've lived your six and a half years now, but it's not where I'm from, you know, I'm from Kansas City.

That it did feel kind of cool that you're in a city that has so much going on with so many people, that an unprecedented historic political criminal event thing is happening thirty blocks a twelve minute bike right from where I was, and there was no sign of it. There was, you know what I mean, there was, there was nothing. New York's a weird place like that like that. Just the city just keeps moving no matter what's going on anywhere else in the city. When you're a city

the size of New York. In LA, the only thing people generally suffer from simultaneously is horrific weather. Yeah, we were, you were, we were all in LA going, Okay, it's twenty eight straight days of rain. Where's the art? It means insane, right like? And New York's had, you know, like blizzards and that kind of stuff. No, the Trump stuff is, um you know, I saw sixty minutes did an interview, which, by the way, they've interviewed terrorists, so

I would not schedule. Um, you know Taylor Green. Taylor Green, Yeah, MTG. I would not have. But they've interviewed terrorists, so it's sometimes you have to shine the light on ignorance. So but my takeaway is the ratings were down like thirty five sent so sixteen minutes took a controversial stand and it backfired. And the truth is she's not interesting. I mean for sixty minutes to lose thirteen percent of their audience.

Is that even though you could take a very popular, polarizing figure like Tucker Carlson and he may win cable, if you introduced him at Yankee Stadium, he would be booed out of the stadium. Is that Twitter is not real life, Social media is not, and either is cable television. Is that what creates clicks? Most people don't want to watch wildly, wildly polarizing figures and are not rooting for

him and Trump. If you're still clinging to Trump, Democrats aren't statistically, independence aren't, moderates aren't, and a lot of Republicans aren't. But if you go to Twitter, you think, oh, he's been reborn. The Biden team is praying he's who they face. See. So it's so this is a fascinating political thing. And this is where I think, and this is where maybe I'm glad I'm not in this business, because sometimes I feel like i'd be good in politics. I want to run for office. My wife tells me

I'm not allowed to run for office. I also feel then sometimes I'm like, I'm so glad I'm not involved in it. But it is a tough line to walk from some of the folks. So the Lincoln Project, for example, has gotten a lot of I think deserved criticism lately for trying to walk these two lines simultaneously. Trump is a unique threat to American democracy, our way of life, unique in a way no politician we've ever had has ever been walking that line and also pretty clearly walking

that line. God, we hope he gets the nomination because he'll be easier to beat, Like well, hold on, like wait wait a minute, just wait a second here, because I might also think he would be easier to beat than DeSantis. Now the more stories are reading about how DeSantis eats chocolate pudding and treats people, maybe he's not ready for the national stage either. Well, I'm not certain, but you can't I don't think you can say you can simultaneously say this one guy is going to wreck

the country forever. Also, we want him to come as close as he can to the presidency, so the guy we want to win wins. That strikes me as a little contradictory in certain ways. Can I say some about the sixty minutes thing? So this was where I thought the preemptive criticism was insane, and then, despite being insane, ended up being correct. I thought the same thing you thought when they were like, we're interviewing Marjorie Taylor Green and everyone's like, how could you give her a platform?

How dare you have the same thing? I'm like, didn't Mike Wallace talk to the Ayatollah? What didn't I see that thing? Yes, I'm like, and this isn't that considered like the greatest, like one of the greatest television journalism moments ever. So I'm thinking, I'm like, everybody calmed down and before criticizing something before you see it. The idea of great journalism is shining a light, you know what

I mean? Like I would there's a lot of horrible figures that I would really like to see an interview with, assuming where it is going to be done. In my eyes, properly. And then this lady said, you know, she's asked, you know, why do you call Democrats pedophiles? And she's like, well, essentially because they are. And the response is wow. And then they move on and I'm like, oh, the critics

were right, you totally. You're like, what are you doing, Like, if you're gonna do it, if you're gonna do one of these interviews with someone, and again, this is not I know you have a ton of a ton of viewers of this, of all political stripes, so I am this is not an attack on conservatives. It is an attack on Marjorie Taylor Green. If you think Marjorie Taylor Green should be the next vice president of the United States, you're not gonna like me because I think you're crazy.

So like that, I'm just the If you're gonna interview someone in that extreme, you have to be ready for it to be confrontational enough that they leave that they're like,

you know, angry, pissed off and walk out. It can't be at the end of it, you're like, smile and shake hands in my you know what I mean, in my opinion, and if you want to go to the other side of it, if if there was a democratic politician who had raised a significant prominence as she has, who's their platform was if you have over two hundred million dollars in the bank, we should come to your

house and burn you that. You know what that person we should you should treat like a lunatic, and you should, and you should excoriate, But it doesn't mean you shouldn't talk to them. So I was disappointed because I thought everyone criticizing the fact that they were doing the interview was wrong. But then the interview ended up they didn't. I didn't think they did a great job with it, but I don't know. Yah no, sixty minutes it had terrorists on. So my take is Leslie Stall probably wasn't

the person that should have been assigned to the story. Correct. That's how I feel having seen it. I didn't say that I think that warrant, but having seen it, I'd be like, something you need sometimes you need confrontational journalists, yes, and something like that. The you, but there should I don't think it should just be we'll never talk to this person and pretend it's one thing to be like, we don't want to give a platform just someone who doesn't have them. You know what I mean, like some

some right white supremacist Twitter troll. Yeah, why give them a platform? This person is a prominent member of the United States Congress. Right, they have a platform. They're ignoring them. Is not going to make them go away? Very good, Nick, Right, that was boy, that was fifty minutes of fun. I have some questions here. There's no need. This was about you want to ask them? Okay, all right, by the way, just real quick, but so we don't have to end

on politics. Just three minutes here before I right now this moment. Have you do you have a lean headed into the NBA playoffs. Um, I'm gonna say Boston matches up with Milwaukee. But somehow I think when given equal rest, I don't think the last game Celtics Bux is fair. They come off a wild shootout. Drew Holliday went from fifty one points to set. I'll say Milwaukee in seven over, Boston gets to the East, gets to the NBA Finals. Wiggins is in shape, but he's not in game shape.

Sacramento is actually a really good first round matchup for them because they know Mike Brown's tendencies the coach. They're deep at guard, can throw a lot at Daron Fox. No experience against the most experienced playoff team, so I do think and the travel for an old team like the Warriors, the travels a bus ride, there's some there's some unique. That's what Raymond said. Draymond said he likes that matchup. Yeah, because of the t Yeah, so it's unique.

If they get Sacramento and Wiggins gives you sixteen and Comingo gives you another twenty, I think they escape that Phoenix in the first round and Wiggins is just not ready to play twenty eight minutes. I don't think they can do it because Steve Kerr said Wiggins is in shape, but he's not in game shape. And by the way, big difference between game shape and NBA playoff second round

game shape. So I think if they get Sacramento and Wiggins can kind of play his way into game shape for about a ten day stretch and then the second round, then I think they would be ready. They're so deep at guard yes, blood war Yeah. And also I don't I don't think Phoenix again, Chris Paul is on the precipice of kind of going off that cliff. I mean, you've got Peyton Deef and Genzo, Clay Pool, Steph. It is the deepest guard group I think, and I don't

remember a guard group now. They have no front court scoring without Wiggins, but I think they're built to really beat Sacramento. I don't know if if Draymond's game works against Yo Kitch. It kind of doesn't, right, He's a little flummox by him. So I guess my my my thing is there's a way for the Warriors to get there, but it has to be specific teams. The Clippers, but maybe with Paul George not at one hundred percent Chris

Paul struggles in a series Phoenix. But I think if Boston or Milwaukee gets to the final, they'll beat probably they'll be the champion, and and it'll probably be Denver. Okay, I don't listen. I gotta see them at I would be very surprised if Denver gets passed round two, very surprised. And to listen, the Warriors, Lakers, or Clippers could be the eighth seed any one of them, and any one

of them could bounce some Denver in round one. Something my son on podcast today said to me, would the Warriors winning be the worst thing for your career, Nick's career because I've written them off again and I said, absolutely not, and this is what I want you to take on. Then we can go. I said, I think the worst for my career would actually be the Lakers winning. And he couldn't understand why, and I said, I think if we're talking long like, what is long term the

best for me? I think Lebron becoming I think it becoming the popular opinion, the majority opinion, that Lebron's the

greatest player ever is actually bad for me. I think that if that debate, if it's everyone's like, it's like, it'll be like two days of like, wow, Nick was right, good for him, and then on to the next thing, like it's in my interest for the Lebron Jordan debate to stretch on as long as possible, and a Lebron winning the championship in the finals MVP this year at least moves that to a coin flip in the eyes of most people, and it really changes the math on

that in a way that that's what's interesting. If the Lakers were to win the title this year, then anyone that says I'm not just counting the rings and the Lebron Jordan. Thing is not only just counting the rings, but the written ring count would now just be one one ahead because every other thing it would be like, Okay, who played longer is more for all these other things.

So while it would feel great in the moment, I actually think long term wise it would be it would not be because that is the opinion people still to this day on the street, the number one thing people say to me is do you really believe Lebron's better than Jordan? And if everyone believes Lebron is better than Jordan, I don't know how much that hurts me. I'm not sure. Just disappear that it's like, oh, Nick, Nick's the guy who agrees with everyone on the homes and everyone on Lebron.

For him, those are that was my thing? All right? I love you college the volume. Make sure to check out The Draymond Green Show. I brought Draymond Green into the volume because one of the more entertaining voices in sports. Unique perspective understands behind the rope also chops up with guests like Gary Peyton, Zach Levine, Tracy McGrady. Make sure download The Draymond Green Show wherever you get your podcasts only on the Volume Podcast Network.