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Hi, Everybody, Welcome in Great podcast for thirty minutes Today. John Middlecoff, former NFL scout, part of the Volume team. His three and Out podcast is Money But First. This baseball season continues to heat up. You could watch it on TV, but what's better than going to the park on a beautiful summer day with friends for last minute
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Terms apply, Colin. Football season is upon us. So that is out. How you doing?
I'm doing great? I'm you know, I was saying today there's a lot more than you think. There are ten teams in this league, and I won't count Tampa because I don't think they have what they perceive as a franchise quarterback in the building. There are ten teams in this league, from Mac Joe in New England, Kenny Pickett, Justin Fields, the Colts rookie quarterback Anthony Richardson San Francisco
brock Pertty. There's ten teams in this league Atlanta, Desmond, Ritter that are really in the We hope we have the right guy in house stage, and so tonight c J. Stroud is the first look we get at him. Now, his numbers were very good in college, but you can go up and down the list the last seventeen years, going back to Troy Smith, all Ohio State quarterbacks, but up big numbers. So what was yours? A former NFL scout, what was your view your prospect profile of c J. Stroud?
You know, I wasn't the biggest fan because a lot like Mac Jones and even Tua, who you know last year was better than I thought he would be. I think he benefited a lot from playing with Tyreek Hill, who's just one of the great players of all time. But when you play with a team that has better wide receivers that you will have in the pros in college. Yeah, and that offense. It's like with Mac the one year in twenty twenty. It was shooting fish in a barrel.
But part of it was, you know, he's a pocket quarterback. He's throwing the wide open guys. But then in that Georgia game, he showed what I think the modern day quarterback needs to do. Right, keep plays alive with his legs, be a playmaker, very instinctive playing against I mean all eleven those guys. When you play Georgia, they're all in. It's you're playing an NFL team, especially on defense, and
he was. He was awesome, And I think that changed the perspective around the league because the big knock on him, you know, kind of an old school pocket quarterback, easy offense playing. He has way better athletes than the rest of his conference for sure, right, you know all the teams they play in the Big Ten. But that game changed my opinion. And listen, Dimiko is just a stud and to me, he's the real deal. And if he signed off on you Caserio, kind of old school Belichick.
They're big on character, so that they really like this guy. Now I don't have inside information. A lot of people thought the owner was force feeding it on, which which you know that can happen. That guy signs the checks and he's a little kookie. But yeah, I mean I was definitely more bullish based on that big time performance, right, because it really was. It was not It was one of the better performances of the season any player. Yeah.
Well, justin Herbert game against Wisconsin, people thought he was mechanical. Then he ran against the Badgers and Tom Tellsco the Chargers told me he was there, and it was it was a wow moment. It's like, well, he's making all big ten defensive players in Jim Leonard's system miss completely
in open space. And Telesco said, he said, you know, I had this high appraisal of Tua, and then I sat there and watched how big and lean and quick he was, and Badger linebackers who are all conference are missing on him in space completely, and it's like, oh, okay,
we've got a franchise quarterback. So I do think a lot of times college coaches john if they don't have a capable backup and are playing for what they perceive to be an elite Bowl gamer championship, they don't run their star quarterback until the last game of the season for sure.
And that's where I think the evaluation process could be very difficult, right, because it's not often right when you're an offensive tackle and I think, hey, you might be a top fifty player and you don't play one guy who's going to get drafted off the edge, right, if you're in let's say the Mountain West Conference, it's like, yeah, I think he's got all the skills and he's got the intangibles, but I've never really seen him until the Senior Bowl, which an all star game is not a
regular season game. It's why the SEC thrives because you go, well, that's an NFL player. That's an NFL player, and for three straight weeks they're going to battle with third round or second rounders, and it makes the evaluation why sometimes small school guys they get drafted high. Sometimes they hit, and sometimes they're just big whiffs. And honestly, it happens at Ohio State and Alabama too, but little less likely.
You feel pretty good when you draft a guy from Georgia right or Michigan right now than when you draft some of these random schools.
Well, yeah, and his comp has been Jared Goff. Jared Goff was a wreck when he had the wrong staff, then when he had McVeigh got to a super Bowl. So if you're betting, really, if you trust Amko Ryans, then c J. Stroud's story probably has a happy ending because I don't think I said this today on FS one. The NFL only gives us about one every five years. Burrow and Andrew Luck a quarterback good enough to overcome nonsense, bad old line, bad coach. Burrow did it right, Burrow.
We didn't know the coach, we don't love the owner. The organization's wonky battle line got hurt. Burrow just overcame it. Andrew Luck did it. Yeah, Yeah, I mean as good as Trevor Lawrence and Herbert are, they had to get
the right coach to get like playoff wins. So I think Luck and Burrow in the I think Kayleb Williams has some of that secret sauce too, But I think C. J. Stroud falls into the Jared Goff, right coach, right direction probably succeeds now two revelations on TV this week as a scout the Johnny Manzel Netflix story where he didn't watch Tate Now, I was told for years by people inside the building with the Steelers that Big Ben would watch tape during practice, you know, nine in the morning,
eight in the morning till four or five in the afternoon, but he would never take it home. Is that what Johnny Manziel was saying, or is Johnny san you know, I didn't even really give a shit in the meetings because if you watched it in the facility and he just didn't take it home, Big Ben wasn't known as a voracious consumer of tape at home.
You don't have a choice when you're in the building because the majority of your day is in a meeting room. Right You're only in the practice room for two hours, So even if you're putting a seven eight hour day, their meetings, position meetings, group meetings, if you're just awake, you're gonna see it. I think what he was saying is I did nothing beside what was mandatory of the
rest of the team. And to me, my take this week was simply, the majority of guys in the NFL are not Mahomes, Josh Allen, Trent Williams, Micah Parsons are not the elite guys. The majority, just like in any business, are just all kind of in the same level right now, because the NFL it's such competitive industry. If you don't do everything to maximize it, you have no shot. And I'll never forget I think one of his first games, because a huge part of his success in college was
running around, right, it was running around. He even he said this was like the best throw of my career. I think it was a game against Alibi. It's not like throwing. I mean, he was obviously played quarterback, but he was known for his athleticism and making plays in the lags. Yeah, and then when he got to the NFL. I think they were playing it was either his first
or second star. I thought it was. I think it was a Thursday night game and Luke Keikley for every step Johnny took, Luke was taking about three and caught him within two seconds. And Johnny didn't even get close to running around like he was used to playing, even obviously the SEC has fantastic athletes, and I went, this is not gonna work. And I thought he was a pretty intriguing process, but it didn't have a great arm. And then when you factor in zero work ethic, I
mean I watched it with my girlfriend. She looked at me, like, this guy's a loser, you know, and that's just that position doesn't translate to being a loser. The difference with Roethlisberger elite physical attributes, right, Yes, I mean, so you can get by with a little less work ethic Shaquille O'Neill. Ben Roethlisberger, they're outliers physically, but he was, you know, much closer to the rest of the pack. And you're
either growing or you're dying. And it's every team in the league has the saying like you're either getting better, you're getting worse. Nobody stays the same because it is kind of true, right, the thing that makes Mahomes or Josh Allen or even the great players Bosa, they're constantly getting better, even if it's just incremental, and they're already way past you. So when you kind of are average and then you just don't improve it or don't even try,
that's that. Honestly, it's pretty embarrassing, you know, it really was to like take pride in not trying, like this is a pretty big deal.
Yeah, No, I think it's it's kind of that Baker Texas Oklahoma attitude. Yeah, you know, it's kind of I've seen this Jay Cutler, kind of the southern attitude, kind of there's a coolness and a casual nature of it, like I'm talent, will Will Levice has something of this. It's kind of a cool I'm quarterback, got a little attitude, going to show off the gun show and they almost take pride and I'm so talented, I don't have to grind,
you know, Brady and Eli Manning. I mean take Brady not cool, a grinder, Russell Wilson, some say Cringy, Kirk Cousins, you know, like not cool. But I see Johnny Manzell and it reminds me a lot of Baker, where it was like he's almost more concerned about being viewed as cool than winning football games.
You know. I heard you say something today on the radio show that and I've always thought this for years is the disingenuous nature of the media when they get uncomfortable with the questions that are asked during the draft period. It's like a team is not just hiring some twenty three year old out of Oklahoma to pay him seventy five grant if they're drafting the guy in the top fifteen they're paying him millions of dollars other company that
was making an acquisition. You know, first a top ten pick is getting twenty twenty five thirty million dollars guaranteed. You do a lot of I don't know, due diligence. Right when you make an acquisition of a business, the business is the person. So what are you gonna do. You're gonna look into the person. And sometimes you got to ask uncomfortable questions. And where do they usually come from your scouts when they go into these schools being
alerted to this stuff. It's not like you can pull them out of thin air that the most of these gms never enter the schools until the draft process starts around the combine when they're given all this information to hey, we need to look into this, this and this, and sometimes that opens doors into other things. But the majority of the NFL, and you know a bunch of these guys you've been talking to them for a long are high level guys. You don't have to spend that much
time on their character. But there is a percentage, especially that are drafted pretty high, that have some red flags that you have to ask uncomfortable questions.
Yeah, hey, Lane, Kiffen told me years ago he begged Al Davis not to draft JaMarcus.
Russell wanted Calvin Johnson. Right, that's a high character, all time great player.
Yeah, so you know, and Johnny Manziel was telling you what he was. You know what maya angeloute. People tell you who they are, believe them. He was bragging about money and you know the money sign. He told you who he was. Cleveland didn't want to listen, all right. The other TV revelation, Not sure if it's a revelation, but I thought I thought HBO Aaron's using it as a rebrand. I'm a good guy. I get along with others.
I'm not selfish, I'm not arrogant. And I think Tom Brady had a bit of a rebrand when he went to Tampa, like, hey, I have a personality, I'm fun. It's helped his business and endorsements. I thought Aaron came across says, hey, man, I got to do this thing. I'm going to rebrand it. It's and I think you can watch HBO and Aaron are trying to convince you, Hey, I'm a different guy and I'm not the bad guy. The media portrays me as I don't think it's wrong.
I think it's pretty smart. But that's how it felt to me. It's a rebrand. Aaron's all in and HBO is helping him. And I'm not criticizing HBO. I think they think that's an interesting, captivating part of the jet story.
Well, it totally is. I've been out on Hard Knocks. Every other show eventually gets canceled or stops, and that keeps going. But if you're just going to give me Aaron Rodgers, Hackett and Solid for four episodes, I'm in because I don't care about the random undrafted free agent that's eventually going to get cut. But I can watch Aaron, Rodgers and Hackett figure out this offense like that, that
to me is intriguing. He's done a rebrand, really since he showed up right, I mean the whole thing of being there in the offseason, taking all the young guys out to Madison Square Garden, going to the concerts with again the young guys, which was the issue last year. Hey Aaron, we got a lot of young guys. I'm
not coming in the offseason. Then he pulls the Brady, which he deserves credit for because I don't care who you are thirty five million dollars a lot of money, gives it back to help the team, And he even said it's not even just for this year, it's about the big picture. I'm in. I believe what they say, and they've clearly done a good job of this process of him believing trusting them. You and I talked about
it a couple weeks ago. I think it's easier too, when the super rich owner tells you, like, hey, man, i'll cut this check for this guy. We'll do this guy. I'll tell Joe we have no problem trading a first round pick next year if we need to go get our Trent Williams or we'll do whatever it takes for you write a little NBA style, And that's how I think he's being treated a lot like Tom was treated. So it's easy to be happy when everyone's kind of
kissing your ass. So like, let's face it, they're kissing his ass as they should be. They're desperate.
Yeah, So you know a lot of times the Dallas Cowboys are brought up and I'm guilty of this, and I don't think I'm guilty. I just think this is my business plan. Is when I was a local radio host, you would talk about local teams. When I got the syndicated job, it became very obvious to me that you couldn't just talk any team you wanted to, that you had to talk the biggest brands and that would accumulate
the largest audience. So very early I was in the Brady and Lebron Notre Dame football, Duke basketball, Yankees baseball. I've moved off baseball a lot since the twenty years ago that I started doing it a syndicated radio. But the Dallas Cowboys, the Packers, the Steelers have a lot of reach. But I actually think this version of Dallas this season is kind of fascinating Dak and there's a clear correlation. The more you ask of him, the more mistakes he makes. I mean, there's a line of Dak
marcation thirty five or more throws. He's way under five hundred thirty three or fewer. He's a really good quarterback. And so his most efficient year as a pro was year one, Zeke number two in rushing yards, best on line in football. Dak was on the cheap the next year, year two, John, if you remember, Zeke suspended six games. In those six games, Dak had five touchdowns and seven picks. The minute you asked him to do more, he provided more mistakes. So here we go into this year. He's
been a Pro Bowl or twice. In both those years, Zeke led the NFL in rushing attempts in yards. Zeke's gone o line rebuild, working in a new receiver, lost an elite offensive coordinator, and Dak now is having a camp full of interceptions. I love this defense. What are we going to get from Dak this year? Because there is a correlation, the more you need, the more mistakes you get. It's not arguable at this point.
I think I'm not just saying this because you're here. I make a point to listen to you have Albert Breer on every week. I think he's he can articulate. He's to me one of the best hybrid of just knowing guys in the league, articulating what's going on, and just and being able to report just his interactions with people. And he said something to you about what McCarthy said to him about their asking Dak to ad lib and
be a little bit more of a playmaker. And when I heard that, my jaw dropped, Like Mike, this is not Aaron Rodgers here, buddy. The reason he was a fourth round pick because his physical attute. He's a good athlete, he does not have a great arm. The clip of there was a pick, I don't know he's throwing a bunch, but yesterday or the day before, Yeah, I like a post route where digs undercut it. Rogers, you can miss that ball deep, you can't miss it short. That's where
the ball always gets picked off. And to me, Dak is much closer from an arm standpoint to Alex Smith to Kirk Cousins. Play within the context of the offense. I could have Rogers, Alan or Mahomes ad libbing because they're throwing one hundred miles an hour. So well, whod
McCarthy have the most successful his career Aaron Rodgers. So maybe in his mind he's thinking that if that, if that is honestly their mindset, I think they are batshit crazy and that is going to be a disaster of just trying to have him be a quote unquote playmaker. The reason Cousins is having so much success over the last four or five years statistically and his teams that their defense is good consistently go to play He just plays within the offense, and when Dak does that, he's
pretty good too. But when he starts ad libbing, I do I mean that pass? His arm is actually for a guy that's big, right, just because if you've ever met Alex Smith, he's six four, Right. Just because you're six to four does not mean you throw one hundred miles an hour, right. Pedro Martinez was shorty through ninety seven, so Tim Linskin was small. Some small guys throw harder. Baker actually has a pretty good arm for a small guy, right.
Aaron Rodgers is six one and a half to eighteen Kyler.
Yeah, so it just it doesn't translate. So I maybe it's because they're not as confident. Pollard's a little more of a hybrid back, not a true like pounded between the tackles, and it's Smith's style. But last time I checked, when they were winning a bunch, Trey Aikman wasn't a big ad liver, right, He just kind of just played the position like it's supposed to be played.
Is there a team Carolina for me? They played the Packers yesterday and gave Aaron some trouble I have. You know, there's always a team in this league that doubles their win total. So last year my big one was Minnesota. Now they didn't double their win total, but I said most improved team in the league. So yeah, so I got that one right. There's something about Carolina. I love Reich.
He makes your quarterback more efficient. I think Bryce Young is one of those lower ceiling but ready to play today. I think they're front seven's good. I think their on line, due to the draft last couple of years, is now more than competent, you know, and the division's a little vulnerable. Carolina is my as Aaron Rodgers found out in the inner squad scrimmage. They got dudes, They got real big.
Do you have a team like that for you that you just people look at it and say five or six and you're like, I watched Carolina a couple games last year without Reich. They're spicy.
Yeah, they play. They definitely have a lot of talent. The team I told you, I think we talked about this over the summer was Washington. I'm gonna throw that take into the garbage going there. I was kind of low on the Giants. I thought they would come back. But the one thing if Darren Waller is healthy and high at the receiver from Tennessee that is running like Hussein Bolt. No one can cover them. They might actually and now Saquan is in a good place, maybe they
get back to ten eleven. To me, the team talking with some people in Jacksonville, I don't know how great the defense is going to be, but the division stinks. Could they be a top two or three offense in the league. I mean, Doug Peterson is just Taylor made for modern day NFL. His personality, his understanding, Like obviously he's the play caller. He succeeded there him dealing with Trevor Trevor last year, what twenty five touchdowns? Could this
year be one of those? Like thirty eight touchdowns? You get Calvin Ridley, who I'm told is just they're blown away by him. We saw Christian Kirk was a really good signing for him. Etn's like the modern day hybrid back. Now you never want to discount Tennessee and I have, but I do. You know, you got to take Rabel very seriously. I think in a coaching draft he'd be a top five pick. I mean, he's the real deal. But Brighton talent's just not quite. There could be a
little bit of a you know, comeback year. So I think the Jags, I don't like him as a Super Bowl contender just because their defense is going to be good enough. But last year, I don't want to call it hollow because that was a big year, especially based on the Urban year. But I think this year could be feel more real than last year was. And you can kind of see like they're a piece or two away on defense. Maybe get their Nick Bosta or their Brian Burns or something then watch out.
Well. Yeah, I thought they played the Chiefs twice last year and I'm literally watching both games. I had the same feeling. It's like the NBA playoffs Denver two years ago, Sacramento this year. In the NBA, they're just not ready to win big, close games yet. I think the Kings will be next year. With dearon Fox and I watched Jacksonville, I thought, oh, they're a year away. They need to lose to Kansas City twice. They don't know how to win.
They don't know how to put those twelve play drives together the way Mahomes and Reed and Kelsey they they're good, they don't know how to manipulate games. So Jacksonville I think has to get to that point. And that's a real thing. Like the really good teams New England manipulated games where they were outplayed. I think Kansas City doesn't that time. I think yeah, And I'm like Jacksonville just has talent, they just don't know how to They don't
know how to win games. They don't play perfect football. Well, they might win or lose the game.
But the three guys in the AFC Mahomes, Allen, and Burrow never walk on the field against the other guy, and definitely the rest of the league thinking that they're not the best player on the field and they're gonna
win the fucking game. And I wonder if Trevor you know, for the first time in the league, had a taste of that last year, had the big you know, had it couldn't have gone any worse, right, He basically if he was a golfer, hit like seven shots out of bounds on the first hole in the first half against the Chargers, and then to me, the mental fortitude, I mean that he eagerly could have gone in the tank and no one would have blamed him, Like, you know,
first playoff taste bad game, threw a bunch of picks, he did not flinch, came back, made a bunch of plays. So I would expect just a massive year from him. And to me, Doug has a personality a lot like Andy very even Keel. Not a big screamer, offensive guy, former quarterback, you know, just kinda He's just an NFL guy. He just gets pros and I think he's going to be really good for them. He has been.
One thing you touched on this week, and I want to bring it back for people that didn't hear it is your take on Ron Rivera and Eric b Enemy, where Ron not only stepped in it, he created it with the comments about the enemy. Take our audience here back to that, because I thought it was a poignant point about in the NFL there's enough landmines. Don't throw your own grenades.
Well, to me, there's a reason. And I don't blame coaches for lying, right, it's not. It doesn't behoove them to give out information that just creates chaos. Most people on the team are well under thirty live on their phone. You got to be very careful. It's why so many coaches don't really say anything and when they do it all leans positive. For him to come out and acknowledge it'd be one thing, right if there was something simmering, there was a powerful story from a Wickersham from the
athletic would be like, what's going on? He gets asked about it, any kind of steps on it, you would understand it. Maybe you got cornered a little bit in a press conference. That was not the case at all. I don't know about you. I hadn't heard anything. Unless you knew a player or someone on the staff, no one would have been talking about it. So for him just to acknowledge that was borderline unprecedented. I mean, you never see that in the NFL unless you know. Is
he already trying to point the finger at him? He sees it not going well? Ron? The thing, It's not like Ron is some modern day, progressive, easygoing NFL coach. This guy's an old school screamer, yeller, defensive guy. So he wouldn't have a problem with you coaching hard. Does he think it's not going well? Does he see our quarterback syste situation is a disaster. I've seen some headlines
multiple times. Part of the reason I started getting off them before This story even kind of came out because of run was because he kept mentioning Jacoby Brissett. He kept don't sleep on Jacoby Brissette, Oh no, and I went, what we've seen Jacoby, just keep him as your backup. What are we talking about? So maybe there's some butting of heads when it comes to personnel. You got new ownership. Let's face it. If Ron were to go seven and ten or like his he was not going to get fired.
He's never going to get a head coaching job again. Like this is his career is over. So it did feel a little bit like he's pointing the finger. Not just a bizarre story. Just when you never see you never see coaching hard. What does that even mean? You go to a practice in high school, people are getting screamed at. It's not even that weird.
John middlecoff Go Low is his golf podcast, and three and Out is his football podcast. Full of information. This is fun. We'll be doing it every week during the NFL season. I'm watching the game starting tonight and all weekend. Can't wait and we'll talk soon.
Have a good weekend. Colin the volume