Boxing with Chris Mannix - What's the future for Teofimo and Bud Crawford

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the face. Anti Joshua is a composed and ferocious finisher. Wat's This Heavy hosted by s I S. Chris Mannix. That was my moments now with interviews, analysis and everything going on in the world of boxing. When you have talent, you are given another chance. Here's Chris Mannix. All right, a lot to get into this week at a busy weekend in boxing last weekend. Uh, to my guest Keith Idex, surprise, I made an appearance at a non zone fight last weekend.

That was at Masses Square Garden for the Tea Feo Lopez win over sand Or Martin. He is in Las Vegas for the Martin Rivera fight which will take place on showtime. A very good fight, although I'm curious to see how it does uh in terms of television ratings. This is a fight that you know, two young ish you know would be contenders going at it. I'm very interested in that fight this weekend talk about that and

much more. Let's bring in Keith idek out in Las Vegas, his home away from home, his favorite place to be on Earth. Keith ideke is here. What's up, Keith, that's what's going on? It's uh. It is my home away from home. So a little less time here this year overall than uh than in the past, but still probably about forty days when it's all said and done. So Yeah, familiar with Las Vegas for sure. And listen, whenever you show up to a fight, it's an honor to have

you at Rings. Saturday night, was it was a rare treat, you know, Yes, Uh, to see my second fight for Sandra Martine as many years, and uh, I'm not entirely sure I need to see a third. We'll get into that, um a little later on in the show. We're gonna get into Martin rivera terrific fight that's gonna air on Showtime this weekend. But I do want to look back, um at a couple of things. Let's start with Terence Crawford. Uh, number one pound for pound on my list, top three,

at least on virtually everybody else's. Uh. He returns after a thirteen month layoff and stops David Avanezien in the sixth round. That fight went largely as I expected. Um. You know, Avenecian is not bad. He's probably a B B minus level fighter. And look, he applied pressure early on. Took Cross for a little bit of time to kind of figure him out, but once he did, he landed an oppercut huck combination has put Aveneci to sleep and reinforced to the Crawford supporters why he belongs atop the

pound for pound list. Um, any surprises for you, first, Keith in that fight, Uh, not from the way that it played out, Chris. You know Terrence Crawford, I've always had him number one pound for pound, and I understand the criticism of of his resume and that he hasn't thought Carrol Spence. I get all that stuff, but from a talent perspective, from uh, you know, the way he

from what he's done in his career. I've always had a pound for pound number one, and I understood the arguments for Canello having said that he beat David Avenees in a convincing way that I expected that that right hook was, you know, he put him the sleep basically, and that's what Terrence Crawford does. He gets in there, he computes, he breaks you down, he beat you up,

and you know, usually knocks you out. The one thing that surprised me about the fight, Chris, and I think we're gonna have some sort of issue here moving forward, is that Terrence Crawford's gloves came apart and there wasn't really anything done about it. I was sort of surprised,

you know, of course, we were at the garden. I watched the fight in the wee hours of the morning when I got home from the garden, and uh, you know, Rick Reno had told me I might drive home what happened with the gloves, and I was surprising re runs boxing scene. Um he you know, and when I got I was surprised that his gloves were torn in the way that they were, and that they took a real good look at the gloves before the start of the

sixth round and allowed him to continue. I mean, they're meticulous about the gloves becrise every commission, I don't know, not a big boxing commission. I understand they don't have a lot of fights there and everything, but they did have w b O supervisors and uh and the referee was from New Jersey had experienced people at ringside, and when I saw the way the gloves came apart, I was really stunned that they did not make him put on the backup gloves. Now, of course you're gonna have

an interruption of the fight. People are going to get bored, the fighters are gonna get cold, But you simply should not. This is not Terence Crawford's fault, of course, but you should not have fighters boxing with with torn gloves like that that that just should not happen. So, um, it looks like David Avensen is going to file a protest related to this situation. I don't know that it's going

to go anywhere necessarily, but he has a valid point. Yeah, well, just let's get to that for a second, because that was bizarre. I haven't seen an incident of gloves tarry in a long time, and when you look at the gloves in the Africa, that's a pretty big tear it add along the side of the gloves. I mean, when is the fallout from something like that? I mean I saw ever Last quickly came out and sort of fell at its sword and took some of the blame for it. Um,

I'm with you. I don't think Avenecian has much of a gripe. In fact, if he did have a gripe, yeah, you gotta kind of put up the protest during the fight, right like you kind of gotta be more agitated about it in the moments. Is there any fallout from something like this? Now, again, he's gonna go through the process and do what they need to do in real time, though, Chris, I don't know that his corner. And now this is a fault of theirs, of course, but I'm not sure

they took a close look at the gloves. Maybe had they seen it really what the damage was that was done to the gloves, they would have put up more of a protest that before the sixth round started. Um. And again, I don't expect the decision to be overturned or anything like that because the officials at ringside, Uh, the onus is on them to stop the fight from moving forward. And it's really their fault. It's not like they didn't inspect the gloves. They did. I just don't

understand why the fight they have backup gloves. And and like you said, Chris, we don't We never see this. I mean, gloves are usually made well. This you know, there are times in a fight when a global tear for some reason or another, but it is very rare, particularly in the place where it toured. It's just not something we're accustomed to seeing. Especially when their custom made gloves Everlast does a great job. You know, other companies, Grant and others do great jobs with the gloves. It's

just extremely uncommon and unfortunately for Crawford. You know, put some sort of controversy around what really should not have been a controversial result. Yeah, and I think you and I would both agree. I don't think the torn gloves had any impact on the outcome. You could see Crawford from like the fourth round on start to slowly put his foot on that gas pedal, landing body shots that were started to slow avan EASi and down, then coming

up with that combination um. When I when I look at it in a boxing big picture perspective, what that fight did to me, Keith, was it at least preserved in my mind the idea that a Crawford Spence fight next year will still be elite against elite. I was a little worried coming in that Crawford at thirty five years old, might show some signs of decline. He did get tapped a couple of times by Avansia, but I have an easy and I don't think he wanted any

of the round um in that fight. And you know, he eventually picked up what was his tenth consecutive knockout, which you really don't see from you know, world champions fighting at this stage of their career. More often than not, most of your knockouts for fighters come early in your career. Crawford's not picked up ten straight um at this stage,

so that's pretty impressive. Um. I still, I still saw a fighter key at the top of his game, and I was at least glad to see that, because if they are able to revisit a Spence fight for the middle of next year, because of what I saw from Crawford, I'll go into that fight thinking you're still gonna get a guy at the top of I keep saying top of his game, but a guy at his very best. Yeah, Chris, I agree, And I think it's a testament toward the way Terrence Crawford lives his life. You know, he does

not blow up and wait between fights. Um. He trains every person that I've ever talked to who has been in training camp with and they're all very deferential at Crawford because of his pound for pound status and everything. But you talked to Shakor Stevenson, he shand Avis, steven Nelson, other guys who spend time training alongside Terence Crawford. He is a beast in training. He takes it extremely serious. Cuts no corners. Uh. He's an inspiration for those younger fighters.

To uh, to show them the way that you really need to behave as a world champion, so that you're always in tip top shape and that you never leave any stone unturned. And Chris, look at how he's he's gone about his career in the last few years. Some of it through no fault of his own this case maybe more so. He doesn't fight that often. He fights once a year or so, and then he comes comes around that one time per year and fights like the best pound for pound fighter in the world. No one.

People can say whatever they want about Shawn order that he had one foot in the you know some of the things that were set after the fight, that he had one foot in the ring and one foot out. No one, and I mean no one ever did that to Shaun Porters, not like Seawn you know, like he was. He's the same age as Terence Crawford, so it's not like he was some older fighter and that had never been done to him. And Terence Crawford came in off a one year layoff and did what he did. Now

takes another, you know, thirteen month layoffer. So comes in and not Avenetians, not Sean porter Um, but you know he does what he does, and he's an elite level fighter, and you're right and that if they do finally fight this year, and who knows, they do finally fight, it it will be an elite welterweight against an elite welterweight.

Let's just hope that we see it. So you are as in tune, are in touch with the people involved with the Crawford Spence negotiations, You can be, um, how easy to think it's going to be to rekindle those talks at some point next year, because I thought it was notable that when asked directly after the fight about Errol Spence, Crawford didn't really go there. He said, looking to get the big names, but he didn't specify, Um that it was Spencer bust And that's kind of what

it's got to be. I mean, I don't know what Terrence Crawford would do, at least not at seven after this. Does he look for the winner of Virgil Ortiz standy Onis? Does he challenged Boots Ennis, like, I don't see those as being the kind of money making fights that that Spence will be. Um, do you foresee it being difficult to restart those talks and get past whatever it was they needed to get past the last time. I do

see it being difficult, Chris. And the reason primarily that I see it being difficult is because of the way Terence Crawford went about finalizing this deal with Abanisi and had he gone to Al Hayman. And I understand the flip side. Al Haman is the most secretive guy, and but you know he never speaks to the media. People don't know what's going on behind the scenes. People are mistrustful for whatever reason about what's going on with PBC

and such. But you know PBC's the tractors. I mean, um, so I understand they're gonna say, well, why does he owe that's al Haman. I just think it would have been better business for Terence Crawford, who have told al Haman looked. I told you from the beginning I was getting in a fight this year. For whatever reason, this Spence fight is not happening this year. I am going

to fight before the end of December. I have this deal for to fight David Avensian for an enormous amount of money based on what type of opponent he is. I'm going to move forward with this fight. Hopefully we can read is with the negotiations after I go beat him up, but he didn't do that, he al, Hayman didn't really know that he was fighting David David Avenecian

until a couple of hours before anyone else knew. So that's not a way to to build trust within what's already from Crawford's perspective and mistrustful partnership so to speak. You know, I just don't I don't know how they go. I'm not saying they can't, but it won't be easy because not now, Hayman is gonna be very mistrustful of Crawford, so and Crawford clearly is mistrustful of Hayman. So I don't know. I don't know what the answer is. But I don't think it's going to be just as easy

as you know. Errol Spence fights he Therman uh in February and then they just pick up negotiations where they left off. I don't I don't think it's going to be that easy. So Crawford was able to walk away from the Spence negotiations because he had this massive offer from BLK Prime to fight a lesser opponent like David Avenisian. Do you think that option is going to be available to him next year. It's kind of my way of asking about the future of b l K Prime because look,

they released this press release with flowery language. They said, you know, early early returns exceed expectations. I don't believe any of that like that. There's there's no way this could have been anything but a financial disaster for b LK Prime if they paid him the reported ten million dollars that is out there that they paid him that to pay of an easy and something that to put together the event. They did a good number in Omaha given credit for that, but I can't imagine what a

live gate and Omaha um is equivalent to. So do you think this is the start of a potential relationship with b LK Prime? And do you think b LK Prime is gonna be around like this time next year doing fights like this. No, and no, that's kind of what I think too. But you go first, they got I. You know, I don't foresee Terence Crawford being able to do another fight with b l K Prime because I don't think that this event would have will have been

a financial success. We all knew that Terence Crawford would sell tickets at OHMA. He always has the financial disaster. Let's just call it like it had to have been a financial disaster. Look, Chris, even as we've discussed before, and I've discussed with other people on podcasts and whatever, let's just say the guarantee was five million. It would still be hard to turn a profit if the if the guarantee was five million, because even at the lower pro price point, I just don't believe that a lot

of people bought the fight. You know, you know, people pirate the fight and all that. That's another issue altogether, but I don't think a lot of people were gonna punk down forty bucks. When there was a competing card on ESPN and yeah, Tifo Lopez, sand Or Martin. It was not you know, Ali Fraser or anything. I'm not saying it was you know, far and away better than Crawford and Avenue, but it was on ESPN. You got three of the top prospects on their way up in

boxing in different way classes fighting on the undercard. E Sean Davis, Xander's Eyes and Jared Anderson would look fantastic on Saturday night. Um, so you know people would watch that. I mean, I just don't know that they were going to be even among the hardcore fans, the same number of buyers as usual, even among that hardcore fan base

that we're gonna buy this fight. Plus there there was a lot, whether it's fair or not, because Terence Crawford just took advantage of a financial opportunity that was presented to him. There was some resentment among boxing fans that they didn't want to help fund this event because Crawford went forward with a fight other than Spence. You know, maybe some of that plays into into comes into play here.

So I just don't think it was a financial success, And um, I would be it would be hard to convince me that Adrian Browner is going to fight Ivan red Cash in February, that event is going to move forward. UM, I'm sure you talked to people like everyone I've talked to an Ivan red Catches camp doesn't believe it's going to go forward, like both for financial reasons and the fact that Adrian Browner looked like a cruiserweight at the press conference. So I did. There's nobody like they're preparing

for it. They'll be ready. I've read catch works out a wild card. They'll be ready to go, but there is a strong disbelief amongst people around him that that fight's gonna go forward. And Chris, even if it does go forward, what is the point of If there's no point to it, you're putting it on paper. It makes no sense. You know, you don't know what they should have done, what they should have done. I mean, first of all, Browner has got to find his way into

fighting shape. That's number one. Number two, they should have found a way to do Browner and Rolly Romero, Like, I don't think that's a good fight either, but the way those two talk, you could have at least built it up over the course of a month, month and a half into something that maybe might have registered some interest.

It still would have been a financial loss, but it's just more appealing than Broner red Catch when the last time we saw Red Catch we just program was beating him up and he's been off for a long time. So I just I don't see. I'm with you, I don't see the marketability of a fight like that. And

also just look look what just happened. Adrian Broner was supposed to fight Omar Figaroa Jr. In August and the week of the fight, he withdrew from it and said he wasn't in the mental space and I don't want to you know, I don't know, you know, whatever was going on. You know, I wish Adrian Broner. Well, but how would you have confidence then that he's going to get to the to the point of this, Let's just

say the fight remains intact. Well, how do you know he's not going to get to the fight week and then withdraw from the fight because he doesn't feel like he's in the right emotional or mental place to to fight. It's the whole thing is odd because you're building a pay per view fight around a guy who hasn't fought in quite some time and just withdrew from a fight four months ago because he just was not capable of fighting a fight that no network in their right mind

would put on pay per view. They wouldn't. This would be kind of a low level showtime fight if it was on that network. Um, it just I don't know who's buying that. Like, Broner's ratings have steadily declined in recent years. He used to be this really marketable guy at his peak, but he's not that guy anymore. Largely because he hasn't that much six s in recent years. His last fight, the majority of people watching I thought

it was either a draw already lost. So I don't I don't really understand the thinking there that that that's going to be your next step in the boxing space. It just doesn't sound like it's a money maker at all. Um, all right, let's talk about the fight we were at this past weekend, the show at Madi Square Garden. Ta Femo Lopez headlines and squeezes out a decision against Sandor Martine. Let's start with the results. Um, how did you score

the fight and did you have a problem with the decision? Well? I could see tia Fimo Lopez winning the fight very narrowly. You know, it was it was a close fight, Chris, I'm not gonna you know, to score eight rounds for tia Fimo Lopez is ridiculous. You know. One of the judges had at eight rounds to to another had at seven rounds to three. I didn't think it was that type of fight. I saw a five, five, six, four type of fight. Um. Look, judges favor aggression. Whether that's

fair to pure boxers or not, that's the reality. Of scoring boxing. They favor the the aggress or the guy who's pushing the fight, which is what TiO Fimo Lopez tried to do. I don't know that he was all that effective at doing it. He himself would tell you that he wasn't he he came out of the ring. You know, you saw everything that was caught on the hot mic where he said, you know, do I still

got it? I mean, he was even questioning himself after that performance and had said repeatedly after he left the ring that he's got work to do. This was not his best performance. He even said on his way back to the dressing room, Chris, he said, I might have even performed better in the Cambosas fight, and I performed in this fight. He was displeased. You know, um, And you know, people tend to overreact. Boxing fans tend to

overreact with every performance, as we well know. So does this mean that Tiafimo Lopez has done at the top level because he struggled against Sandor Martin. I don't think that. And and Sando Martine is pretty good. He doesn't have the most appealing style, but he just beat Mikey Garcia and he probably seven rounds of that fight. Mikey Garcia was a four division world champion, what only lost to

Harrell Spence Um, so he can box. But he said something that was interesting to me to Bernardo or soon after the fight as well, Chris, he said, you know, maybe I need to go to war more. I don't know that war is necessarily the right way for him to fight. But he himself acknowledged maybe I didn't do without coming out and saying it, and maybe I didn't do enough. While he thinks he was robbed and that he won the fight, in the back of his mind, he saying, maybe I should have done this, I should

have done that, you know. So yeah, but that's that's scoring boxing, this subjective science that it is, and leaves us all uh frustrated and annoyed sometimes. Yeah, I scored the fight for Taffimo Um. I was ringside for Sando Martine against Mikey Garcia. I scored that fight for Santo Martine.

That was a much more convincing win than what Sandor Martine probably believes happened at the garden Um copy box numbers aren't everything, but you look at each round Tafemo was outlanding him, albeit by one or two punt is for most of of the rounds, and the connection rate when power punches was significantly bigger for Tafea Lopez. I

just it's just really hard to win. To your point, it's really hard to win fighting like that, Like you've got to clearly win rounds if you're gonna fight backpedaling the entire time. Um, he had a lot of success doing it against Mikey. I don't think he was as successful against Ta Femo. If it had been a draw, I probably would have been okay with that. I would not have been okay with Martine coming away with the wing because I don't think he did enough in this fight.

And you know, people on Twitter getting on Ta Femo was one thing, even some media or quasi media members getting onto a Femo. I was surprised how many fighters kind of got on him. I defy any of the top hundred forty pounders to go out there and dominate Sandra Martine. It's just tough to do. Like Mikey Garcia, who has an argument to be in the Hall of Fame,

couldn't do anything with him, struggled with him. Now, some of that to do with Mikey Garcia having one ft out the door as well, but he struggled in that fight at a weight class with Sandra Martine was not especially comfortable at above one forty. This was Sandra Martin's natural weight. Despite the fact he took the fight on short notice, he came in great shape. He had a good game plan. Dave Fimo was not preparing for a fighter like Sandra Martine coming into this, so I think

that has to be taken into account. And he just makes you look bad, and he's gonna make everybody look bad. You put Sandra Martin in against Regis program and Regis programs and stopping him in the second round. You put him in with Josh Taylor, that's a hideous fight. If you put Martin in with Josh Taylor, I'm just I'm not here for the you know, I can't believe he

struggled with Sandra Martin. I agree he needs work, and you know, maybe you don't have to replace his father, but I think they should start bringing another voices, somebody else to supplement that team, maybe in the same way that Devin Haney does and has done with Ben Davidson

and others over the years. I just I don't think it was as catastrophic a performance as some people, including fighters, seemed to believe that it was, because, you know, the interesting thing is that he had another voice in his corner, Joey Gamasha's good point and and and he thought very well, and he got to the point where he beat Vasili Lomachenko with Joey Gamash in his corner. So I don't know, really know what happened there, but Joey hasn't worked with

him for his last few fights. So um, I agree with that. The one thing that troubled me maybe about good strategy. One thing about Joey we should point out to people that aren't familiar, very good strategist. Joey Gamash, Like he had a lot to do with the strategy going into that Lomachenko fight, so he's he's very good

in that sense. Also, um, the thing that troubled me, maybe more so than anything about t Female's performance on Saturdays, that he didn't make the adjustments during the fight that he needed to make, because he continually came forward, lunged forward and got caught with the counter right hook, and sandel Or Martin knew how to handle him coming forward all night and he knocked He really should have been

credited for two knockdowns. That knockdown and said, I could see the overhead view it looking like he cut them behind his head, but then we saw the other or angles where it looked like he caught him more on the side of his head. My personal opinion is that that should have counted as a knockdown that came from a counter right hook, as did the knockdown in the

second round. Now, Lopez was not hurt either time. They were flash knockdowns, but they should have counted as additional well, one of them did count as an additional point for Sando Martine in the second world should have as well. And he just kept getting hit with that same punch, And that makes me wonder what he's being told in the corner, why he's not making those adjustments to uh, to stop that from happening, because it just happened time

after time. No, Sando Martine in Atlanta, ton of punches in the fight, but that fight, that punch in particular was his money punch in the fight, and tia Fimo should have figured out a way to combat that. And that's I think some of what he's referring to and saying, we have work to do, because he came into the fight he had told me and he told other people that, you know, I do well with south ball, they do great with south pauws, which, of course, Vassilio Machenko is

a south paw. Diegel Magdalanos a south paull who was waiting past his prime at that point he beat up. Now, not every southpaw fights the same way, as we found out the other night, and and credit to sand Or Martine. It's not the most appealing style. It's not something people are gonna want to tune in to watch on any kind of repetitive basis, but it's effective. He's boxing. Now. Some people call it running to a female. Lopez calls it running, but you know, he called it a master

class of boxing, and in some ways it was. I mean, I don't know, you know, you need to be somewhat more aggressive, as you said, to win that type of fight. But he boxed very well, and he fought through a damaged nose, which happened in the first round. He deserves

credit for that as well. I don't know if it was broken necessarily, but there was a clash of heads in the first round, and his nose was all jacked up for nine plus rounds, so he deserves some you know, it's not only what ta female Lopez did not do. It's some of what sand Or Martine did and deserves credit for that. It was a difficult fight. It's not a fight any of us are gonna want to see again, so please, I hope no one thinks there should be a rematch in any way, but but you know, maybe it,

you know, it gets people to fight Tiafimo Lopez. And I think personally, I think he's gonna wind up fighting Josh Taylor. I think they're going to keep him away from Regis Prograe because progra is a big puncher. He's an unorthodox uh south ball, he doesn't fight conventionally, he doesn't fight anything like sand Or Martine, and he's still in the prime of his career, and he beat down Jose's a pay to I wouldn't pursue that fight if I were them, and and it obviously makes more sense

for him to fight Taylor. If Taylor beats Cattera, which is no foregone conclusion, and if he stays at a hundred and forty pounds. Again, no foregone conclusion, but that's the fight to make. That's easier to make because they're both with top break and I'm sure Taylor will look at the fight against sand Or Martin, so yeah, bring Tia Fimo Lopez across the pond here and I'll beat him up. Yeah. I think that is the way that

they're they're going to go. Um, it sounds like Regis pro Gray and Jose Ramirez are are gonna get a deal done someway or the other. It might have to go to purse bid for that to happen, And I don't know what the purse bid split is going to be. I don't think anyone knows at this point with the purse blad split is gonna be. But that sounds like it sounds at least possible. I've talked to people in Ramier as his camp and they say, they want, uh that fight. Um, yeah, I mean it's a sink or

swim fight against Taylor for sure. What worries me a little bit about about fem Or two things. One, he's now been dropped by two non punchers, right like Cambosis is not a big puncher. Um and Sandra Martine is certainly not a big puncher. Now, he was caught by Martina a difficult angle. He was lunging in. Some of that had to do with balance, but he was dropped, and he was legitimately dropped in the first round by

George Cambosis in that fight. So I start to wonder about his chin as we go into bigger fights with bigger punchers. The other thing is kind of his mental space, right, Like you go back a year ago and I was in those fighter meetings you were around Tafimo. He was not in a good place. Like a lot had to do with what was going on in his personal life. He was dealing with family issues. He had just had a baby. Weight issues professionally speaking were problematic for him.

So you know that was that. But then this fight comes around and Taafemo seemed like he was in a better place. But I'm listening to Tim Bradley do an interview after the fight, and Bradley said something like the ta Femo we saw in our fighter meeting was not the same guy we're used to seeing when it was not that same kind of upbeat guy he was, he felt Bradley felt like Lopez was going through some stuff. So and Bradley knows the former fighter Hall of Famer.

Now I wonder I worry a little bit about where he is mentally, and there's no way to kind of, you know, project how to fix that. But I think that's something to watch as his career moves forward. You know. That's kind of my two cents. Yeah, you know, I went to visit Ta Fema Lopez and training camp. He was training in Jersey and about it's probably about eleven days before the fight. I went down and I spent

the while. I was there for a couple of hours, and I talked to him, you know, on and off the record, and he seemed like he was in a good place to me. You know, he's reconciled with his wife and UM, and his son is back in his life. You know, that's a that's a troublesome thing for for anyone. You know, when you're when you're separated from your wife and your and your son is not your you know

that that's tough. That's tough stuff, you know. Um, So it seemed to me that he was in a good place, you know, mentally going into the fight, but um, certainly more so than he's that he would have been, although I wasn't there for fight week because I was here covering a fight, um when he fought George Cambosis, but certainly in a better place mentally, um than he was going into that fight. So the thing about his chin that I would just say Chris is uh, I agree

with you. It's concerning because he's been down, you know, three times, twice officially, but probably three times. Um. It does seem to be a balance issue more than anything, because he's getting these shots as he's lunging forward, he's his feet are not placed in the right position, and he has gotten right up each time. It never seemed to me in each of those three instances that he was really hurt. It just seemed like he went down to a gotch like more annoyed at himself than anything,

and then just right back into the fight. He did not seem hurt against George camp Boss to me either. UM. But you're right. I mean, it keeps happening, and that's the thing you're going to have to fix. It's from a strategic standpoint, from a fundamental standpoint, You're going to have to fix those things because if you do that against Josh Taylor. You know, maybe he puts you away. Certainly if you do it against read his program, he's gonna put you away. So uh yeah, those are things

that he needs to correct moving forward. And as you said, probably not a bad idea. I don't know if the situation with Joey Gamash is fixable and they can bring him back, but bring another voice back into his corner, because that certainly seems to be needed. Whatever he was doing going into the Lomachenko fight, Do that bring the same people back into your life in that one, because that was your career defining performance and you want to

get back to being that fighter. Uh once again? All right, let's talk about a fight that happened just a couple of days ago. In a way, the now undisputed champion at eighteen pounds after stopping Paul Butler in the eleventh round. Not surprising Paul Butler took the fight. Didn't really seem like he was coming to in the fight. Um had a survival strategy. I guess he was. He was on the move a lot. He was in good shape. I'll give him that. He stayed on the move for the

majority of eleven rounds. In a way eventually catches up to him. I don't really want to talk about the fight itself because it was so one side. It was ten rounds the NNE before in a way blast them out of there in the eleventh round in a way. Now moves to a d and twenty two pounds or will move pounds? Um? Start here? Do you think how dominant he was at one eighteen can carry over to a higher weight class. Yeah, it depends on how well he carries his power, which I think he will because

he's a pretty big puncher. You know, he's you know, he's uh, he's the monster for a reason. For sure. There are good fights for him at one two. But guys are moving up as well, you know, like it looks like Steven Fulton is going to move you know, the guys are are are advancing and weight so, um, you know, Acmdaliev is there as titles there, there are interesting fights for him, you know. Um, but yeah, but what there's nothing left for him to accomplish an eighteen

pounds right? So what you know they were remember there were people last year or whenever. Oh would love to see him fight Chocolate Team. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no no mind, Like what are you trying to get talk Latto killed? I mean, you know that's exactly what would happen. So so there's nothing really there for him in that way class or anyone coming up from you know, one fifteen that would be an appealing fighting anyway as

far as I can tell. So, um, yeah, so it's time for him to move up and then what kind of fights can they make? Can you get the champions? And you know, we'll see, But that's where he needs to go, I mean, because there's nothing left for him to accomplish a Phantomly, yeah, I think that Stephen Fulton would fight him. Um sounds like based on some of his social media posts, he's interested in coming back down

and fighting him, defending his titles. I think the challenge there is getting fault into Japan frankly, because you know this, like in a way, it makes a lot of money over there, like millions fighting over there almost doesn't matter who he fights. Sometimes he makes a lot of money in that market more probably then he would make fighting on ESPN or showtime over here. So can I see a PBC fighter going to Japan to take on in a way I don't know, I don't know if I

see that. I think that's gonna be a big challenge for that fight. I think Aquadali would do it. Achmadalai has no fan base anywhere, so he can go wherever. His problem right now is that he's got another mandatory, which I think is his thirty six mandatory in the last three years. There's a purse bid for that. I think next week it's the ib F I believe, and he's gonna have to take care of that mandatory. But if he gets through that, and maybe the timing winds

up good here. If he gets through his mandatory, Um in a way, moves up gets one fight to get used to it. It's a pretty big fight the middle of next year. And like I said, I don't think Achmadali would blink about going over to Japan to fight now. In a way, yeah, I think the Acamadala of option is more realistic than Fulton, because I'm not saying Fulton

doesn't want to fight. From a business standpoint, there are a multitude of reasons why it won't happen UM, and I do think that he's going to settle in a hundred and twenty six pounds and just stay there because it's hard to make. I mean, he's a he's a tall kid for the weight class, and it's not easy to make a hundred and twenty two pounds, and uh, you know, he himself wants to fight out, but that's the fight he wants. He wants to become the fully

unified champion. For whatever reason, it hasn't happened. So you know, of course, in a way, is A is a big star in Japan and he's arguably you know, some people have number one pound for pound two three or whatever. That's a bigger fight for Stephen Fulton. But the more meaningful fight to him is fighting Akmadaliev for full supremacy in the hundred and twenty two pound division. But that doesn't seem like it's going to happen. He has plenty of options at a hundred and twenty six pounds if

he moves up. In the PBC universe, there's a rematch with Brandon figure Rowa, which I think people would really want to see um, and I think that's more the direction he's gonna wind up going. You know what, in terms of which fight I think is more aesthetic pleasing. Actually think Akadali of against in a way would be a better television fight. Um Acumadalia is a talented guy who can crack like he's and I think he'd be aggressive. I think he throws some punches. I think he would

really test in a way in a fight. So I kind of hope that in a way gets a fight early next year Acadal gets a fight, and then middle of next year we get those two guys clashing for two versions of two pound title. All right, a couple of things I want to finish with. Um. We had a purse bid just a couple of days ago for

virgin Lortiz and standy Onis Golden Boy. Surprisingly to me anyway, they won that purse bid uh two point three million, one point seven of which uh standy Onis gets because of some interesting rule by the w b A to give of the purse bid to standy Onis. Um. It sounds like this fight is gonna get made, probably in late February or early March. Are you surprised that we're going to get a fight between two guys that are outside of Spencing Crawford at or near the top of

a hun pound of division. Somewhat surprised because you would expect that stan Jonas would have tried, even though he's kind of sort of a PBC fighter. He you know that he's staying in the PBC universe. You know, you would think he would do that. Um, And they did try to do that. I mean, there was a while when Geron Ennis was convinced that he was the one who was gonna fight stan Yonis. In my opinion, that's an unwinnable fight for stan Jonas, as good as he

proved them to be. Um. I think Virgil Ortiz will beat him as well. But but I do see some vulnerability and Virgil Orties that I have not yet to see in Geron Ennis. That leads me to believe that san Jonas has a better chance to win that fight than he would if he would have thought Ennis it's

a good fight. Um. Look, in this case, it's probably one of those instances, Chris, were the w ba's nonsense actually created something positive, because we would not have seen stan Yonas fight Virgil Orties and Ortiz has fought Cavalaska's. He's thoughts of decent opponents, but this would probably be the best opponent of his career, would would be the best opponent of his grips and defeated guy who looked very good against Utayev, who's you know, strong and can punch,

and it's a good fight. So you know, I hope it happens. And um, you know, Virgil Ortiz is getting the short end of the money, but it's about the opportunity. Although this w b A title should not exist, it gives him some leverage in his own pursuits of welterweight title shots. And you know, I think a lot of people hope because we don't really see Terence Crawford or Errol Spence fighting Virgil Ortiz or Geron Ennis that eventually, assuming they can remain at welterweight, that that's the fight.

Jeron Ennis saying that people have been talking about it for a while now, Geron Ennis against Virgil Ortiz, so this would put Ortiz in good position to try to make that fight happen. I spoke to Ennis about this last week and has said, Look, everyone wants to see the Ortis fight. I'd love to make it happen. I hope that's the fight for me. He goes, but I kind of see stan Jonis Ortiz as a fifty fifty fight. I wouldn't be surprised if either guy won, and then

I would just want to fight the winner. But but to answer your question, Chris, I yes, I'm surprised somewhat that it's happening, but wasn't le surprised, And let's just hope it moves forward and it's a really good fight in the first quarter of between two young, undefeated guys. That's what we want, maybe to a lesser degree, but we're getting that on Saturday night here in things. Yeah, I think this Ortiz Danny Onis is is a can't miss type of fight. Like it's two guys, as you said,

they can crack aggressive. You know, it's it's it's excellent and like credit to I mentioned credit to Golden Boy and Ortiz's team. Um, I do think they'll be able to make up some money for Ortiz, whether the Zone gooses it a little bit too to make Ortiz happy or look, they go to Texas, they could probably do half a million dollar gait if they work hard down there. I mean, that's that's that's reasonable as Ortiz has grown

as a as a star kind of in that that area. Um, but they like when talking to people around Ortiz, like they want to get him that belt. Yeah it's a fake belt, but they don't believe Spence is going to fight, you know him if he's ordered to, like they're they're thinking, is that that w B a belt? He'll eventually get elevated to the full champion at w B. A same thing with Boots Tennis. Like, you know, he's not. Spence

is not gonna fight Ennis. He's gonna wait for Crawford or move up to you know, he's been talking about moving up so then we'd get you know, full title holder or tease full title holder Ennis. My hope is and I talked to Ennis about this as well. I just don't want to get on the same merry go around we've been getting on with previous welter weights. I mean, whether you go back to Mayweather and Packiau circling each

other for five years, Spence Crawford's still circling each other. Um, I mean, are we about to do the same thing? Do you think? Or is there any kind of reason to be optimistic that or Tease and Ennis would fight sooner than that. I guess the other welter weights out there, you know, hopefully that merry go around would last a little uh not as long as some of these other ones, but but they it will go on to some degree because they're gonna fight, you know, make a mandatory defense

or whatever. My point is, as if he beat stan Jonis and when Geron and his beats the crap out of whatever his name is, um, they will eventually, as you said, eventually be elevated to full champions and then you know, hopefully within two years they would fight each other. Is that that's probably a realistic timetable. But the other thing is as these guys grow, Chris and where teams I believe it's twenty four, they can't be expected to stay at welterweight forever. You know, Spence has been a

welterweight his entire career. Crawford obviously moved up from lightweight uh in one world titles at thirty five and forty before he got to welterweight, so he hasn't been a welterweight for his whole career or anything. But you can't be you know, it's got to be hard for Spence, particularly because he's made the mistake of blowing up and weight between fights. It can't be easy for a guy who's thirty two going on thirty three years old to

make that weight. He's you know, he's five nine and a half, five ten whatever he is, and you know it can't be easy at that point. So hopefully sooner than later they would that fight would happen. Let's just hope they keep winning and at least there's the possibility of that fight, because that I would favor Ennis, of course, But a fascinating fight is a beast offense, a lot of offense out of Virgil Lortise offense and skill out of geron Enis. It's it's an unbelievable fight for both

those guys. Credit to your point, credit Spenceford being able to make welter weight. This long guy fought the Olympics at one two like he's been at for his entire

pro career. It's yeah, I don't blame him at all for I want to move up and wait, so I do think by like the middle of next year, last quarter of next year, winner of Orties standy Otis will be the full title holder there Boots will be a full title ib F and then hopefully, you know, sayer minds can prevail and we're not doing this all over again at welter weight. All right, let's finish with the fight. You're at. Terrific fight. Frank Martin Michael Rivera, two guys undefeated.

Martin is what seven? Michael Rivera is twenty or uh they're both contenders. Um surprised we're getting this fight? Like you know, this is This is a great fight for people like you and me that that watch these guys coming up. It doesn't have the broad mainstream appeal. It's the kind of fight that, you know, to borrow Bob Aaron phrase that promoters would let marinate under different circumstances. Why let me ask us, why are they fighting? Like

I don't want to. I'm not poo pooing it because I'm glad it's happening, But why are these two guys fighting right now at this stage of their career? Well, Chris, that's a great question, particularly from Michelle Rivera standpoint, because he's ranked number two by the w b A and he's in position to get a title shot sooner rather

than later. Of course, he was hoping to fight Thank Davis for another uh w b A title that should not exist, but it would be a big fight for Michelle Rivera to go fight Javonte Davis in a pay per view event. So I was more surprised from his standpoint that he took the fight because he's ranked by

all four. He's ranked by the ib F, w b A, w BC and w B O has a very high ranking with and he's he's six by the ib F. He's in good position to to get a title eliminator and this fight as an eliminator as well, not a

final eliminator or nothing, but but an eliminator. Um. So I was more surprised that he took the fight because he seems to have a little bit more to lose than Frank Martin, who's only ranked by I think it's the w B A. I think he's tenth by the b A. But Frank Martin is uh in boxing fan. Hardcore boxing fans had watched him somewhat in the shadows come up here as some of his fights have been televised by FS one Fox and then his last fight

against Jackson Marines was televised by Showtime. Frank Martin is a very interesting guy, Chris, and that he only started boxing when he was eighteen years old. He didn't walk into a boxing gym until nine years ago. And look where he is. He had fifty eight amateur fights in a place where you know, boxing is not a hotbed. He fought most primarily in Indiana. He raised in Fort Wayne, Indiana, born in Detroit, raised there a little bit too, but

but moved to Indianapolis to start his amateur career. You know, here too many fighters coming out of Annapolis. He now obviously is trained by Spence's trainer, Derrick James and Dallas. He's promoted by Errol Spence's company. Um. He's a very humble guy, but in my opinion, one of the more underrated fighters that I've seen in boxing over the last couple of years, and has come a very long way

from someone who only started boxing nine years ago. Um. I wasn't surprised that he took the fight as much as I was from Rivera's perspective, because Frank Martin had said, and Errol Spence said after he fought Jackson mary As in the press conference, we will fight any lightweight that is willing to take the fight, and that proved to

be true. It's a very good fight. It's a it's a it's a hardcore boxing fans fight Chris obviously, um, it's not gonna, you know, generate Jamel Charlo Brian Castaniol type numbers on Showtime. But it's the type of fight that we want to see, and I give both guys credit for taking it because it's a high risk fight at this point in their careers. I wish more fighters would do this type of thing, but I think it is going to be a very interesting fight. I favor

Frank Martin, He's slightly favorite. I believe it's a two to one favorite according to the oddsmakers. I think he'll win the fight. But Michelle Rivera has proven to be a very very capable boxer and again, lower profile fight, but a very very good fight that I think hardcore boxing fans will really enjoy. I encourage people to watch it. It's it's gonna be an excellent fight between two guys

that are quickly becoming names at one five. I'll say this much, Keith, I will not no matter the outcome, I will not criticize the loser, because you don't need

to see these guys in against inferior opponents anymore. I give them all the credit in the world for stepping up and taking fights of this caliber despite them not being as high profile or lucrative as maybe it would have been a year from now if they had fought some lesser guys real quick, Um, would you think of Devin Haney kind of clapping back at top rank a little bit over the last couple of days, Devin Haney, Devin Hani wants the Lomachenko fight in March, right because

Devin Haynes is Muslim, he is planning to observe Ramadan, and the way Haney is framing it, he believes top rank wants the stage the fight it may, which he believes because of you know, because of Ramadan would not allow him to train properly for that fight. We know, Devon Haney this is more likely than not being. It will be his last fight at a hundred thirty five pounds. He struggles to make that weight. Anyway, What do you think of Devon Haney kind of you know, going at

top rank a little bit on social media. I was surprised just because since he came to top rank, he's been treated very well financially and otherwise they like at King since he's come there. Uh, and the plan of course all along the three fight plan was for him to fight Loma Chanco. I understand what he's saying, but he also has to remember that he's making four million dollars plus to fight Loma Chanko, and they're going to try to bring the fight where they're going to make

the most money. And if that means that the fight is going to be admit what I would say to try to appease Devon Haney because he's their fighter. Whether he remains with top rank there after is anyone's guests, but he is their fighter, um as is Loma Chenko. He feels because loma Chenko has been with them longer, that they're showing preferential treatment. All I would say to that is, well, who do you think top rank? They're never gonna say this out loud, but who would they

rather win the fight? The twenty four year old, undefeated, fully unified lightweight champion or the thirty four year old guy who's at the back end of his career and you're not going to really be able to do much with moving forward. I'm not saying that they want loma Chenko to lose. I'm just saying from a business perspective, it would make more sense for him want to want Devon Haney to win. Now of course you think that,

do you think that's true? Because I mean, I get what you're saying, But like, there's gonna be competition for Haney after this fight. I think Eddie Hearn is gonna go back at him and try to resign him. And there's some fondness there between the Haneys and Eddie Hearn And if Loma Chenko were to win, it would set up a pretty big fight between Loma Chanco, which of

course the Evenson before the end of the year. Like that, And I don't know if you get that if if you certainly don't get you of course Stevenson, But I don't know what the relationship would be with Devin Haney regardless of the outcome, despite moving forward, Well, they have to be wary, of course, or mindful that he might leave, of course, But there are other big fights if if Haney wins, there are other big fights in the top rank universe for him. You know. Obviously, Devin Haney against

cour Stevenson's a fight people would want to see. And eventually they'll catch up to each other and being or Stevenson will catch up to him and be in the same weight class he goes to one forty. T Lopez is still there, Josh Taylor still you know, there are fights there for Devin Haney to be made UM if he remains with if he beats them Cheko and remains at Top Rank. And the one thing you'd have to

say is he has been compensated. Well. Now, he was being overcompensated uh by match Room in his own because they had to. They had to pay the price to do business with him and to get a young talented fighter like him on that platform and with match Room, so they overpaid to some degree. But he's been you know, Chris Hill have made somewhere By the time his first three fights with Top Rank will be completed, he'll have made somewhere around eleven million dollars. I mean, he's been

treated pretty well. He's of course been exposed to a much greater audience on ESPN UM and they're hoping to put the Hany Lomachenko fight on ESPN, not on ESPN pay per view. I think, you know, that's the kind of fight that could draw between two and three million viewers, so you know his profile would expand in that way.

But but you're right, Chris, and that it's always lurking in the back of their minds that Handy could leave top rank after he does have a good relationship with Eddie Um and he was treated well by his own to financially and otherwise. So it's always a possibility that he would leave. But I don't think there's I guess what I'm saying ultimately is I don't think there's some

plot to wrong Devon Haney here. And then if you're going to be paid that kind of money, there are some things that you're gonna What I would say to just resolve all of this, Okay, if you feel like the fight being in May is not fair to you, well and you'll fight in June or July, well, tell tell us what's fair and what to train in the right way, and we'll do that problem right. There are no other restrictions later in the year. Now he can't come back and complain and say, oh, I want to

fight to happen sooner. Look, look, they're making concessions on your behalf to to make sure that you feel completely comfortable training for the fight and being as fully prepared as you can. You then can't complain that the fight's happening too late. You can't have it both ways. So yeah, I think with what I think about Hainey in his future, one of the things I think about is Pro Gray and what comes up next for him. Um, if that fight goes to a purse bid, I would expect match

Room to bid on it. I would Um. You know, match Room has had an interest in Progray perfectly, they were trying to do the program Hooker fight in the past. I would expect match Room to bid on a Pro Gray Ramirez fight if that fight went to a purse bid, and that to me would be a sign that match Room, which doesn't really have a U S footprint anymore, do you think about it like that? Their top fighters in the US right now are women. Frankly, you've got Katie Taylor,

who was still part of match Room USA. You've got Alicia baum Gardner who's there. They're gonna wind up doing a deal with the Manda Serranto for a fight in early February. They don't have a lot of male fighters. They've got bamb Rodriguez, They've got some of the smaller guys. I think they're gonna get in the mix for for

a pro Gray Ramires fight. I don't have any that's not based on anything I'm being told directly, but I think that if that went to a perse but it wouldn't surprise me to see match Room jump in and then like, if you're in the program business and if you can beat Ramirez, all of a sudden, you're talking about a landscape at one forty at at the Zone, match Room, Golden Ball Universe, that makes sense to go out and and get Devon Hany because you can do a Devin Haney Reis Progray fight, you can do a

Devon Haney Ryan Garcia fight. Um, there are some other lesser known names might be available with the right price at one forty. So I just think that Program Ramirez fight is one to watch. Who walks away with the promotional rights for it? Because I had assumed when I was hearing that Ramire is going to take that fight

that it would be definitely a top rank fight. I have been led to believe that's not necessarily the case moving forward, Keith, I think that there's a possibility somebody else jumps in and wins promotional rights for that fight, and Chris, as we've seen in the past top rank is more than willing to allow the zone to out either outfit. However, we'll let Jose Ramirez do that is

benefited from that. No, that's exactly what I mean. Jose Ramirez when he was an undefeated world champion, they allowed him to go fight on his own, no questions asked against Maurice Hooker, and he made a lot of money. They might be more than willing to do that in this case as well. And then they had that frees up more money for them to make other good fights on ESPN within their budget. So yeah, I wouldn't be surprised by that at all. Jose has got I think

he's got a pretty big minimum. He's got a lot of he's own a lot of money. I think he said as much. I think he said Mattam was surprised at how much, uh how much he was gonna he was getting paid um from top ranks. So we'll see that. That's an excellent fight, and I think I think anyone should want to get in on that fight, especially someone like Eddie Hern who wants to make a name at one forty or start to get into one forty, because that's that's pretty much can't miss progreg at Samiras two

elite guys. That's gonna be a fun fight one way or the other. Keith, enjoy your fun fight this weekend. Rivera against Martin terrific fight on showtime. I will not be there. I know you're shocked and disappointed. Won't be too out. The last three weeks will be side buddies. We'll take what we can get. Man, come on, you know. Good to see you my friend. Same here, Chris. I'll talk to you soon. Man, Thanks dude, appreciate it. See you soon. Thanks when we come back. My conversation with

John Ennis. So if you're looking to get more out of the NFL this season, now is the perfect time to download fan Duel, America's number one sports book because new customers get a no sweat first bet up to one thousand dollars. That's free bets back if your first bet doesn't win. Just download the fan Duel sports book app.

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Ennis is an undefeated hundred forty seven pound contender. On January seven, he will attempt to win an interim title when he takes on Karen shook Agen. I hope I said that close to correctly. That's a fight that will take place on the undercard of Javante Davis's lightweight fight against Tector Luis Garcia, and Boots Ennis joins me on

the show. For the uninitiated, Boots the nickname where does it come from Uh, my nickname was originally books b O O P S. My My mom give me their nickname when I was little, and you know, when I was going to the gym, you know, playing around, everybody thought my dad was like saying, like boots like these shoes. We just kept stuck with it, so you know, I wanted up wind up turning out good? Little Did your mom know she was giving you your boxing nickname for

life at that time? Um? Not your first time training for a fight over the holidays, and you did it a couple of years ago for a January fight. Uh. How do you feel though about having to kind of watch your weight over Christmas? I mean I feel agree. I'm still eating. I'm still eating and everything I'm supposed to be doing and nothing change. You know, I don't know how to give my weed all right, you know the right way, So you know, I'm not too worried

about the howdy I still eat? Is there something though on the Christmas dinner table that you're like, you know, if I wasn't training, I would have this. I'm I'm eating. I'm eating. I gotta eat, you gotta eat lose weight. I'm eating. It's nice to be in your mid twenties. That because nice, but everything off. I'm curious for a guy like you favorite Christmas movie to watch over the holidays. M h and any Home Alone that's good. That's good. Good.

That's a different generation. That's even a generation almost before me like that. That goes way back. Yeah, all the Home Alone, I think they're good. I love him. What got you into Home Alone? Uh? Oh? I think one day I just turned it on. It was on, and I ever said, I've just been watching all the Home Alone for them? Oh no, not all four. You watched two and then stop like once colleague Bulking exits, then you're you're out. Now watch I still like the other

ones too, They're not too bad. That's that's dedication. Man. I can't bring myself to watch one of them without Macaulaum. That's tough. That's tough for me. Um. We're wrapping up two and you'll only have one fight this calendar. The year, Uh, two thousand twenty you had three two one you had to this year you were down to one. What has this year been like for you? How would you describe

what it's been? I mean, this year, this year have been great, even though I only got you know, I won't fight in because you know, you know Crawford and we we're trying to figure out what Crawford and Especial was gonna do. You know, it was holding it up a little bit. So I mean, but it is what it is. You know, I won't fight this year, but we're gonna be able for three next year. So that's the google. So you know I've heard you say that before the Crawford Spence held things up for your father

say it before? What does that really mean? Has it been like you know, if you were kind of hoping it either happened or one of them would vacated title? What were how did it hold up your career? Like just basically hoping they would they would fight or whatever. See, you know, see what was going on. That's everybody, you know, all the three seven founders was waiting around to see what they was gonna do. So nobody really wanted to engage anything until they found out what Crawford and Spencer

was gonna do. So once they figured out what what they was gonna do, everybody started going in different ways and different things like that. So and that's originally was supposed to fight in like November or something like that, and then I was supposed to fight in December. Then we wanted up be in a call for the pay review, so I was like, I was like, well not that's

that's even better, you know, uh. And he was trying to get a solid opponent, you know, a great opponent, and originally, hey, stand you onis like then and I think the w W a mind up making a like a order or something like that for him or ties. So you know, they gotta fight now. But you know, hopefully we get the winner winner that you know, or or or or or or but in uh spence too, so we don't still matter why. You know, I've heard you say before that you wanted Standing on Us wasn't

about fighting an opponent. The caliber of standing Onus was the fact that he had a secondary title. Why did you want that fight specifically? I feel like that was the best next option because he was trying to get keep Derman and he wasn't available. You know, Stanton is

a great fight, you know, why not fighting youness? You got about you know, uh, you know, and been on a beautiful show you know for the fans, you know, and shine and show these guys that I'm gona real do Yeah, I'm sure, like like most of us, you started to believe for a while the Crawford Spence was going to get done. When it fell apart in late October, what was your reaction, Uh, I was, I didn't know, I didn't know what this but honestly, I don't know.

Like I was like, they probably will never fight if they didn't fight this year, but I don't know. Hopefully do fight next year, and I mean, if not, you know, as an opportunity for me to fight one of them, you know, uh, you know, hopefully you know we can make it heaven? What do you think deep down though? Like I you know, you're fighting for the ib F interim title, which presumably would mean that, you know, Errol Spence, if he doesn't fight Crawford, would have to fight you

in order to maintain that title. I personally, Boots, don't don't really believe either of those guys will you, because you're You're too talented and the risk is not worth the reward. I think Spence and or Crofford were more likely move up before they face you. Is realistically, do you think either one of those guys would get in the ring with you. I mean they two grow them in and he's getting nobody, and I feel like they

both would get in the ring with me. You know, it's only it's only a matter of you know, making an amount if they want to fight me or not, like you know, right after it. So you know, I feel like specified me and I feel like if I mean, you know, hopefully we can make if I haven't, you know, take them boat from them. Yeah, look it's it's a great fight. Um, you know. I I do find interesting the IBF is ordering an interim title when technically Spence

doesn't even have a fight yet. We haven't even like that. Was there a part of you that, you know, thought that maybe you would get a mandatory order to fight Errol Spence? What what what the interim boat not without like even with because you know Spence, we all think he's gonna fight Keith thurmant we assume he's gonna fight Keith Thurman. But yeah, it's still not done yet. And I just found an interest in the ib F created an interim title when their actual title holder didn't have

a fight book yet. You know, I mean, I definitely I do think this. I think they're gonna fight. I'm gonna keep them in, gonna fight, and uh, I mean, and I feel like I'll be next in line. You know, there's boats gonna put me right there where I need to be. You know, it's giving me that extra boost, you know, hit me right there. You know, I fight any any any guy that got about next after this.

If it's not Aero Spence, it'd be you know, Crawford standing honest or whoever when I standing est or tease, you know, any one of those guys. It certainly makes you unavoidable and puts you in a position soon to have the full version exactly that is falling right and right in the place, right in the line. You know, everything going I was supposed to be going. All I gotta do is handle handled business Jenry seven, which y'all will do. Um, let me ask you first, how does

how do you see these standing owners Ortisse fight going? Um, that's a great fight. That's a fight, you know, Uh, two great fighters. You know, need want to have them gonna back up. I feel like they're gonna be in in the pocket the whole time. You know, whoever gonna be in the best shape, that's who gonna win. It is a great fight. Um yeah, I probably favor Ortiz a little bit that maybe because I see a lot more of his fights than I do with standy Onis,

with him fighting so often on his own. But you know, welterweight Geron has been it's one of those divisions that has not given us kind of what we wanted in the last ten or fifteen years. We did get Patiel Mayweather eventually, but it was past it's kind of sell by date. We still haven't golf and gotten Crawford versuspense like can you sit there right now? And if Ortiz wins, like can you are you? Are you sure that you

will get a fight against Virgil Lorties? Not next maybe, but in the next eighteen months of next year most definitely. I feel like that's the that's one of the biggest fights in boxing. Whoever went out of you know or tease or so you know that that's definitely one of the biggest fighting boxing. I feel like that can definitely hap within the year or six months that it happened next. For it was up to me, it will happen next. But you know, people gonna go different ways and try

to move around. But I feel like it was up to me. You know, I make anything happen, the best fights possible. Yeah, and you've created it seems like some flexibility there. You've you've taken some risks in your career by going somewhat independent. You've got a Showtime deal, which has been great for you, I'm sure, but do you feel like you're you have a level of independence to

kind of push for certain fights to happen. I feel like it was definitely a shout out the Showtime appreciated them, you know, they always you know, looking out for me and put me in right position things like that, and I feel like they banging me. I'd never sent whatever fight that I want. Once I, you know, get a vote or or anybody else that I want to fight, they will beg me and you know, let me get those fights and things like that whoever I want. I'm already.

I gotta tell you like I'm you know, after January seventh, and then if Orties beat Dandy Onis in February March, I am just gonna lead the bandwagon for Ennis Orties in that. Like I'm telling you, man, I've been like peeking for that fight a little bit over the last year year and a half. But if both of you guys are either a title holder like you will be on some level in January and Ortiz will be a secondary title holder. But I don't look, I don't think

either Crawford Orpense is gonna fight or Tse either. Frankly, but if you two guys are suddenly the men in a hundred seven pound division, that can't be a fight we wait like five years for in a different weight class. It just can't be. It's too good a fight between two fighters that are just too talented, who can draw crowd, who can you know, put butts in seats in Texas or California or the Northeast wherever you decide all the fight like that. I mean, that's just a massive show, right.

I think it's big show, a great show, you know. Uh, I feel like that that make a lot of money. You know a lot of people will be excited to see that. You know. Yeah, last question for you, what what what do you what do you kind of trying to show in this fight coming up on January seven? You're fighting guy's pretty good but relatively unknown, but you're fighting on a big stage. I mean, Geronte Davis that

that building is probably gonna be sold out. It's gonna do a decent number, I'm sure on pay per view. This feels like a good opportunity for you to show out in a fight like this. How do you feel going into this fight? I feel I feel great. You know, it's it's only and watch it. Watch it the DC, so you know that's that's right down the roof for the Philly you know, the hopefully gonna be in the building in Jersey Delaware. Everybody's gonna be in the building.

So you're just gonna be like me fighting at home basically, you know, and I can't wait, you know, if you're on a beautiful show, you know, getting get a beautiful knockout,

you know, in front of my friends and family. You know, I feel like I'm gonna go out there and show me, you know, just me being me, you know, being being smart, you know, picking my shots, putting their pressure on, you know, getting that knock out, looking good, showing my defense a little bit, you know, uh, having fun and become a victorious with a knockout. But I'm glad to see it

back in the mixture on. You're one of the biggest best young stars at all of boxing, And I apologize in advance for filling up your timeline with like ortiz Ennis, like hashtags and ship like that, because that's just that's just gonna be me for most of three If I don't if that fight is on the table, I don't mind it. I'm retreated. Good to talk to you, man. Good luck going on January seven. All right, thank appreciate it. When we come back. This week's picks brought to you

by Fan Duel. Alright, time now for this week's picks, brought to you by our friends over at fan Duel. This week, I am looking at a very competitive fight in Las Vegas, Frank Martin Michelle rivera hundred thirty five pound fight, great matchup between two of the better young fighters in the lightweight division, and a fight where the winner will absolutely take a big step forward and be looking at a world title shot sometime in two thousand and twenty three. Frank Martin is favored in this fight

minus two eighty right now over at Fan Duel. I wouldn't take that bet, that's not Those are great odds minus two eighty for Frank Martins almost three to one at this point. I like Frank Martin to win. But the best bet I like in this fight is Frank Martin by knockout. He's got two straight knockouts, including one over Jackson Marinez, who is a solid fighter. A very good win, a very good knockout win for Frank Martin.

I think Frank Martin is the real deal. He's twenty four years old, he's been part of Errol Spence's stable for some time. He's trained by Derrick James. I think he's got that knockout power in him, and I think he wins this fight by knockout. So take Frank Martin by knockout plus one over at fan Duel. That's the pick I like. That's the method of victory that I like. Frank Martin by knockout. That's my pick. Brought to you

by fan Duel. That's it for this week's episode. My thanks to Keith Idec and Jeron Enis for joining the show. As always, subscribe, rate review this podcast on Apple, podcast, Spotify, wherever you download podcast, and I'll see you next week.