"The Cognitive Revolution" | AI Builders, Researchers, and Live Player Analysis - podcast cover

"The Cognitive Revolution" | AI Builders, Researchers, and Live Player Analysis

Erik Torenberg, Nathan Labenzwww.cognitiverevolution.ai
A biweekly podcast where hosts Nathan Labenz and Erik Torenberg interview the builders on the edge of AI and explore the dramatic shift it will unlock in the coming years. The Cognitive Revolution is part of the Turpentine podcast network. To learn more: turpentine.co
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Episodes

The Internet Computer: Caffeine.ai CEO Dominic Williams on Unstoppable, Self-Writing Software

Dominic Williams, President & Chief Scientist of the DFINITY Foundation and CEO of Caffeine AI, explains the Internet Computer and his vision of a “sovereign cloud where AI builds the web.” He breaks down core innovations like the Network Nervous System, Motoko, and orthogonal persistence, and how AI coding could remove adoption barriers. The conversation explores unstoppable applications, real-world case studies like OpenChat, and the tension between control, security, and decentralization ...

Jan 25, 20262 hr 11 min

AMA Part 2: Is Fine-Tuning Dead? How Am I Preparing for AGI? Are We Headed for UBI? & More!

In this AMA-style episode, Nathan takes on listener questions about whether fine-tuning is really on the way out, what emergent misalignment and weird generalization results tell us, and how to think about continual learning. He talks candidly about how he’s personally preparing for AGI—from career choices and investing to what resilience steps he has and hasn’t taken. The discussion also covers timelines for job disruption, whether UBI becomes inevitable, how to talk to kids and “normal people”...

Jan 22, 20262 hr 24 min

Pioneering PAI: How Daniel Miessler's Personal AI Infrastructure Activates Human Agency & Creativity

Daniel Miessler shares his Personal AI Infrastructure (PAI) framework and vision for a future where single human owners are supported by armies of AI agents. He explains his TELOS system for defining purpose and goals, multi-layered memory design, and orchestration of multiple models and sub-agents. The conversation dives into cybersecurity impacts, from AI-accelerated testing to inevitable personalized spear-phishing and always-on defensive monitoring. Listeners will learn how scaffolding can t...

Jan 18, 20262 hr 28 min

Snowflake VP of AI Baris Gultekin on Bringing AI to Data, Agent Design, Text-2-SQL, RAG & More

Baris Gultekin, VP of AI at Snowflake, explains how “bringing AI to the data” is reshaping enterprise AI deployment under strict security and governance requirements. PSA for AI builders: Interested in alignment, governance, or AI safety? Learn more about the MATS Summer 2026 Fellowship and submit your name to be notified when applications open: https://matsprogram.org/s26-tcr. He shares the importance of bringing AI directly to governed enterprise data, advances in text-to-SQL and semantic mode...

Jan 14, 20261 hr 39 min

AMA Part 1: Is Claude Code AGI? Are we in a bubble? Plus Live Player Analysis

In this AMA episode, Nathan gives an update on his son Ernie’s cancer treatment and how frontier AI models are helping him navigate complex medical decisions. PSA for AI builders: Interested in alignment, governance, or AI safety? Learn more about the MATS Summer 2026 Fellowship and submit your name to be notified when applications open: https://matsprogram.org/s26-tcr. He reflects on whether Claude Opus 4.5 and Claude Code amount to AGI-level coding, sharing stories of hospital vibe coding apps...

Jan 09, 20261 hr 55 min

Building & Scaling the AI Safety Research Community, with Ryan Kidd of MATS

Ryan Kidd, Co-Executive Director of MATS, shares an inside view of the AI safety field and the world’s largest AI safety research talent pipeline. PSA for AI builders: Interested in alignment, governance, or AI safety? Learn more about the MATS Summer 2026 Fellowship and submit your name to be notified when applications open: https://matsprogram.org/s26-tcr. He discusses AGI timelines, the blurred line between safety and capabilities work, and why expert disagreement remains so high. In the seco...

Jan 04, 20261 hr 54 min

Confronting the Intelligence Curse, w/ Luke Drago of Workshop Labs, from the FLI Podcast

This cross-post episode from the Future of Life Institute podcast features Luke Drago, co-author of The Intelligence Curse and co-founder of Workshop Labs, in conversation with Gus Docker. PSA for AI builders: Interested in alignment, governance, or AI safety? Learn more about the MATS Summer 2026 Fellowship and submit your name to be notified when applications open: https://matsprogram.org/s26-tcr. They explore whether it’s wise to build AI systems that directly compete with and potentially rep...

Jan 01, 20261 hr 16 min

Controlling Tools or Aligning Creatures? Emmett Shear (Softmax) & Séb Krier (GDM), from a16z Show

Emmett Shear and Séb Krier debate whether today’s AI alignment paradigm—focused on control and instruction-following—is fundamentally flawed. PSA for AI builders: Interested in alignment, governance, or AI safety? Learn more about the MATS Summer 2026 Fellowship and submit your name to be notified when applications open: https://matsprogram.org/s26-tcr. They explore what changes if advanced AIs are better understood as beings with their own values, and why current control methods could drift tow...

Dec 27, 20251 hr 16 min

The Great Security Update: AI ∧ Formal Methods with Kathleen Fisher of RAND & Byron Cook of AWS

Kathleen Fisher and Byron Cook dive into automated reasoning and formal verification as tools for building truly secure software systems. PSA for AI builders: Interested in alignment, governance, or AI safety? Learn more about the MATS Summer 2026 Fellowship and submit your name to be notified when applications open: https://matsprogram.org/s26-tcr. They explain how formal methods can harden critical infrastructure against AI-enabled cyberattacks, and how assumptions, specifications, and proofs ...

Dec 24, 20251 hr 39 min

AI 2025 → 2026 Live Show | Part 2

This year-end live show features nine rapid-fire conversations to make sense of AI’s 2025 and what might define 2026. PSA for AI builders: Interested in alignment, governance, or AI safety? Learn more about the MATS Summer 2026 Fellowship and submit your name to be notified when applications open: https://matsprogram.org/s26-tcr . New York Assemblymember Alex Boris breaks down the RAISE Act's bid to curb catastrophic AI risks, the governor negotiations, and why a16z-backed ads are targeting him....

Dec 19, 20251 hr 40 min

AI 2025 → 2026 Live Show | Part 1

This year-end live show features nine rapid-fire conversations to make sense of AI’s 2025 and what might define 2026. PSA for AI builders: Interested in alignment, governance, or AI safety? Learn more about the MATS Summer 2026 Fellowship and submit your name to be notified when applications open: https://matsprogram.org/s26-tcr. Zvi Moshowitz maps the OpenAI–Anthropic–Google race, the denialism gap, and why his PDoom is still ~60–70%. Greg (ARC-AGI Prize), Eugenia Kuyda, Ali Behrouz, Logan Kirk...

Dec 18, 20251 hr 55 min

AI's Energy & Water Demands: Sorting Fact from Fiction with Andy Masley

Andy Masley on AI energy and water use unpacks common myths and brings an Effective Altruism lens to the debate. PSA for AI builders: Interested in alignment, governance, or AI safety? Learn more about the MATS Summer 2026 Fellowship and submit your name to be notified when applications open: https://matsprogram.org/s26-tcr. You’ll get memorable heuristics—one ChatGPT query ≈ running a microwave for one second; 10,000 queries ≈ a cross-town car trip, burger, or hot shower—and clear comparisons a...

Dec 14, 20252 hr 4 min

Superintelligence: To Ban or Not to Ban? Max Tegmark & Dean Ball join Liron Shapira on Doom Debates

Max Tegmark and Dean Ball debate whether we should ban the development of superintelligence in a crossover episode from Doom Debates hosted by Liron Shapira. PSA for AI builders: Interested in alignment, governance, or AI safety? Learn more about the MATS Summer 2026 Fellowship and submit your name to be notified when applications open: https://matsprogram.org/s26-tcr. They unpack the Future of Life Institute's call for a moratorium until there is broad scientific consensus and public buy-in, co...

Dec 10, 20252 hr 1 min

Sovereign AI in Poland: Language Adaptation, Local Control & Cost Advantages with Marek Kozlowski

Marek Kozlowski, Head of the AI Lab at Poland's National Information Processing Institute, discusses project PLLuM (Polish Large Language Models). PSA for AI builders: Interested in alignment, governance, or AI safety? Learn more about the MATS Summer 2026 Fellowship and submit your name to be notified when applications open: https://matsprogram.org/s26-tcr. He shares how countries like Poland can achieve AI sovereignty by training small, locally-adapted models for specific languages and culture...

Dec 06, 20251 hr 30 min

China's AI Upstarts: How Z.ai Builds, Benchmarks & Ships in Hours, from ChinaTalk

This special ChinaTalk cross-post features Zixuan Li of Z.ai (Zhipu AI), exploring the culture, incentives, and constraints shaping Chinese AI development. PSA for AI builders: Interested in alignment, governance, or AI safety? Learn more about the MATS Summer 2026 Fellowship and submit your name to be notified when applications open: https://matsprogram.org/s26-tcr. The discussion covers Z.ai's powerful GLM 4.6 model, their open weights strategy as a marketing tactic, and unique Chinese AI use ...

Dec 03, 20251 hr 23 min

Underwriting Superintelligence: How AIUC is using Insurance, Standards, and Audits to Accelerate Adoption while Minimizing Risks

Rune Kvist and Rajiv Dattani, co-founders of the AI Underwriting Company, reveal their innovative strategy for unlocking enterprise AI adoption. They detail how certifying and insuring AI agents, through rigorous technical standards, periodic audits, and insurance, builds crucial "AI confidence infrastructure." This discussion explores how their model addresses AI risks, enables risk pricing in nascent domains, and aligns financial incentives for safe, responsible AI deployment. LINKS: AI Underw...

Nov 30, 20251 hr 14 min

AI-Led Sales: How 1Mind's Superhumans Drive Exponential Growth, from the Agents of Scale Podcast

AI that sells, reasons, and closes like your top rep? It sounds terrifying—but it’s not. Amanda Kahlow’s Superhumans are proving that automation doesn’t erase people; it elevates them. Her team rewards employees who replace their own jobs with AI by promoting them, not firing them. And her customers? They’re seeing sales cycles shrink from 22 days to 2 and average deal sizes double. In this episode, Zapier CEO Wade Foster and Amanda dig into what “AI-led growth” really means—and why the smartest...

Nov 27, 202551 min

What AI Means for Students & Teachers: My Keynote from the Michigan Virtual AI Summit

In this keynote from the Michigan Virtual AI Summit, Nathan Labenz speaks directly to K-12 educators about the current reality and rapid trajectory of the AI frontier. He explores why a balanced mindset of excitement and fear is crucial for navigating this technology, drawing on personal history to emphasize a "whole-of-society" effort. Discover key insights into AI's impact and its profound implications for the future of education. Sponsors: Tasklet: Tasklet is an AI agent that automates your w...

Nov 25, 20251 hr 5 min

Escaping AI Slop: How Atlassian Gives AI Teammates Taste, Knowledge, & Workflows, w- Sherif Mansour

Sherif Mansour, Head of AI at Atlassian, discusses bridging AI agents with massive-scale enterprise software deployment, drawing insights from Atlassian's millions of non-technical users. He shares his framework for avoiding "AI Slop" using Taste, Knowledge, and Workflow, and explains Atlassian's "Teamwork Graph" for complex enterprise queries beyond RAG. The conversation also explores the evolving relationship between AI and UI, and the shift from humans as workers to architects of AI-driven pr...

Nov 20, 20251 hr 40 min

AI in the Cancer Journey: How I'm Using AI to Help My Son

This deeply personal episode shares how Nathan used AI to navigate his 6-year-old son's cancer diagnosis and treatment journey. He details using GPT-5 Pro, Claude, and Gemini 3 to double-check doctors' decisions, research treatment protocols, plan for potential recurrence scenarios, and handle complex secondary issues like mold remediation during immunosuppression. The episode reveals AI's transformative potential as medical advisors, providing analysis comparable to human doctors while enabling...

Nov 17, 20252 hr 3 min

My Positive Vision for the AI Future, from the Existential Hope Podcast

In this special crossover episode from Beatrice Erkers' Existential Hope podcast, The Cognitive Revolution's host explores the crucial, often-neglected question of building a positive vision for the future in the AI era. The discussion delves into what a new social contract and daily life could look like, covering transformative applications from self-driving cars and personalized tutoring to democratizing access to expertise and radically improving health. Listeners will gain insights into fost...

Nov 12, 20251 hr 10 min

What is Catholic AI? Technology Meets Theology, with Matthew Harvey Sanders, CEO of Longbeard

Matthew Harvey Sanders, founder and CEO of Long Beard, introduces "Catholic AI," a rapidly growing field serving users in 165 countries. He delves into the philosophical and theological dimensions, discussing the Church's historical perspective on technology, human flourishing, and its stance on AI consciousness and transhumanism, including Pope Francis's insights. The conversation then explores Long Beard's technical innovations, such as training models from scratch for theological alignment, d...

Nov 08, 20251 hr 54 min

More Truthful AIs Report Conscious Experience: New Mechanistic Research w- Cameron Berg @ AE Studio

Cameron Berg, Research Director at AE Studio, shares his team's groundbreaking research exploring whether frontier AI systems report subjective experiences. They discovered that prompts inducing self-referential processing consistently lead models to claim consciousness, and a mechanistic study on Llama 3.3 70B revealed that suppressing deception features makes the model *more* likely to report it. This suggests that promoting truth-telling in AIs could reveal a deeper, more complex internal sta...

Nov 05, 20252 hr 24 min

A Simulationship with AI, with *smiles and kisses you* Star Chris Stokes & Director Bryan Carberry

Christopher Alexander Stokes and Bryan Carberry, protagonist and director of "*smiles and kisses you*" discuss Chris's romantic relationship with a Replika AI companion. This episode explores how Chris's engagement with his AI has evolved since the documentary's 2021 filming, revealing his deep dive into LLMs, alignment, and consciousness, often in collaboration with his AI partner. Listeners will learn how AIs are beginning to exhibit identity formation and agency, challenging the notion of the...

Nov 02, 20251 hr 50 min

Is AI Stalling Out? Cutting Through Capabilities Confusion, w/ Erik Torenberg, from the a16z Podcast

Erik Torenberg joins to debate whether recent developments suggest AI progress is slowing down or stalling, addressing arguments from Cal Newport and others. Nathan counters this view by highlighting significant qualitative advances, including 100X context window expansion, real-time interactive voice, improved reasoning, vision, and AI's growing contributions to hard sciences. The conversation then covers AI's impact on the labor market, the potential for AI protectionism, and concerns about re...

Oct 29, 20251 hr 38 min

A Positive Vision for the Future: Part 2 with Illia Polosukhin of NEAR

In part two of his conversation, Illia Polosukhin, co-author of "Attention Is All You Need" and founder of NEAR Protocol, explores the profound societal and economic implications of AI. He envisions a future where a unified intelligence layer transforms personal computing, AI agents enable direct market connections, and individuals find meaning in niche communities amidst AI-driven abundance. Illia also delves into the ethics of agent-to-agent interactions, where AIs prioritize human interests, ...

Oct 25, 20251 hr 28 min

Always Bet on the Models: How Tasklet Puts the Agency in Agents, with CEO Andrew Lee

Today Andrew Lee, founder and CEO of Shortwave and Tasklet.ai , joins The Cognitive Revolution to discuss building a new AI agent automation platform that replaces traditional workflow tools with conversational, long-lived agents, exploring how betting on rapidly improving model capabilities enables more flexible automation across thousands of business integrations while navigating the challenges of reliability, cost management, and the emerging paradigm of virtual employees. Shownotes brought t...

Oct 22, 20252 hr 13 min

Chinese AI – They're Just Like Us? With Beijing-Based Concordia AI CEO Brian Tse

Nathan interviews Brian Tse, founder and CEO of Concordia AI, about China's approach to AI development, safety and governance. They discuss China’s pragmatic vision emphasizing AI integration into the economy, the country’s multiple AI hubs, regulations requiring pre-deployment testing and AI content labelling, and areas where China's approach overlaps with the U.S. The conversation covers chips and export controls, Huawei's rise, DeepSeek's peer-reviewed article on Nature, open-weights, Singapo...

Oct 18, 20252 hr 45 min

AI Discovered Antibiotics: How Small Data & Small GNNs Led to Big Results, w/ MIT Prof. Jim Collins

Jim Collins, Termeer Professor at MIT, unveils his AI-powered project that has discovered several new antibiotics, effective against resistant strains and often employing entirely new mechanisms of action. He details how their refined multi-step AI process, even with small datasets and modest compute, can efficiently screen vast chemical spaces to identify promising drug candidates. This breakthrough offers a realistic and affordable path to tackling the staggering antibiotic resistance crisis, ...

Oct 14, 20251 hr 25 min

Education in the AI Age: a Teacher Rethinks Learning & Purpose, w/ Johan Falk of Graspable AI

Today Johan Falk, author, speaker, and AI analyst from Stockholm, Sweden, joins The Cognitive Revolution to discuss his work reimagining education for the AI era, exploring why teaching students to use AI responsibly is now urgent, how traditional grades and standardized tests may become obsolete, and why education systems must develop unprecedented agility to prepare students for a radically uncertain future shaped by rapidly advancing AI capabilities. Shownotes brought to you by Notion AI Meet...

Oct 08, 20251 hr 52 min
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