"The Cognitive Revolution" | AI Builders, Researchers, and Live Player Analysis - podcast cover

"The Cognitive Revolution" | AI Builders, Researchers, and Live Player Analysis

Erik Torenberg, Nathan Labenzwww.cognitiverevolution.ai
A biweekly podcast where hosts Nathan Labenz and Erik Torenberg interview the builders on the edge of AI and explore the dramatic shift it will unlock in the coming years. The Cognitive Revolution is part of the Turpentine podcast network. To learn more: turpentine.co
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Episodes

The Customer Service Revolution: Building Fin, with Eoghan McCabe & Fergal Reid of Intercom

Today Eoghan McCabe and Fergal Reid of Intercom join The Cognitive Revolution to discuss building their AI customer service agent Fin, exploring how they achieved a 65% resolution rate through rigorous optimization and custom model training rather than relying on base model improvements, while pioneering outcome-based pricing at $0.99 per resolution. Shownotes brought to you by Notion AI Meeting Notes - try one month for free at: https://notion.com/lp/nathan Sponsors: Linear: Linear is the syste...

Oct 05, 20251 hr 34 min

Training an AI Scientist with Feedback from Reality, w- Liam Fedus & Ekin Dogus Cubuk (from a16z)

Today’s special crosspost features a16z General Partner Anjney Midha with Liam Fedus and Ekin Dogus Cubuk of Periodic Labs. They discuss experiments in training frontier AI models on real-world physics lab experiments—rather than digital reward functions—and how coupling language models with automated materials synthesis could accelerate the discovery of room-temperature superconductors and transform R&D in advanced manufacturing. Shownotes brought to you by Notion AI Meeting Notes - try one...

Oct 02, 20251 hr 1 min

The Machines Are Taking Our Jobs - Thank God? Emad Mostaque’s Guide to the next 1000 Days

Today, Emad Mostaque, founder of Intelligent Internet, joins The Cognitive Revolution to discuss his book "The Last Economy" and his radical "intelligence theory" framework for reimagining economics in the AI age, exploring concepts like the abundance trap, metabolic rift, and his proposed cryptocurrency-funded system of collectively-owned AI infrastructure to prevent digital feudalism and ensure AI benefits humanity rather than just capital owners. Shownotes brought to you by Notion AI Meeting ...

Sep 28, 20252 hr 16 min

Stripe's Payments Foundation Model: How Data & Infra Create Compounding Advantage, w/ Emily Sands

Today, Emily Sands, head of data and AI at Stripe, joins The Cognitive Revolution to discuss how the company built a payments foundation model that processes tens of billions of transactions into dense embeddings, exploring the technical architecture behind fraud detection improvements and the modular approach that enables rapid deployment of AI across Stripe's $1.4 trillion payment network. Check out our sponsors: Google Gemini Notebook LM, Linear, AGNTCY, Claude, Oracle Cloud Infrastructure. S...

Sep 25, 20251 hr 21 min

Full-Stack AI Safety: Why Defense-in-Depth Might Work, with Far.AI CEO Adam Gleave

Today Adam Gleave, co-founder and CEO of FAR.AI, joins The Cognitive Revolution to discuss his cautiously optimistic vision for post-AGI futures and AI capability timelines across three distinct tiers, exploring the safety challenges and alignment techniques needed as FAR.AI scales from foundational research to policy advocacy to ensure their innovations actually get deployed in real-world systems. Check out our sponsors: Fin, Linear, Oracle Cloud Infrastructure. Shownotes below brought to you b...

Sep 20, 20251 hr 27 min

Can We Stop AI Deception? Apollo Research Tests OpenAI's Deliberative Alignment, w/ Marius Hobbhahn

Today Marius Hobbhahn of Apollo Research joins The Cognitive Revolution to discuss their collaboration with OpenAI using "deliberative alignment" to reduce AI scheming behavior by 30x, exploring the safety challenges and concerning findings about models' growing situational awareness and increasingly cryptic reasoning patterns that emerge when frontier models like o3 and o4-mini operate with hidden chains of thought. Check out our sponsors: Fin, Linear, Oracle Cloud Infrastructure. Shownotes bel...

Sep 18, 20252 hr 9 min

User-Owned AI: On-Chain Training, Inference, and Agents, with NEAR's Illia Polosukhin

Today Illia Polosukhin, founder of Near Protocol joins The Cognitive Revolution to discuss the intersection of AI and blockchain technologies, exploring how decentralized infrastructure can enable "user-owned AI" through privacy-preserving model training, confidential computing, and autonomous agents that operate via smart contracts without centralized control. Check out our sponsors: Linear, Oracle Cloud Infrastructure. Shownotes below brought to you by Notion AI Meeting Notes - try one month f...

Sep 13, 20251 hr 33 min

Coaching the Creators: Inside the Minds Building Frontier AI with Executive Coach Joe Hudson

Today Joe Hudson, founder of Art of Accomplishment and coach to executives at major AI labs including OpenAI and Anthropic, joins The Cognitive Revolution to discuss the psychological patterns he observes among AI researchers and leaders, exploring what's missing beyond pure intelligence in current AI systems and arguing for supportive rather than punitive approaches toward those building frontier AI technology. Art of Accomplishment Resources Sign up for Joe's complimentary transformation guide...

Sep 11, 20251 hr 45 min

Zvi Mowshowitz on Longer Timelines, RL-induced Doom, and Why China is Refusing H20s

Today, Zvi Mowshowitz returns to The Cognitive Revolution to discuss how recent AI developments like GPT-5 and IMO gold medals have led to modestly extended timelines despite being on-trend, while policy missteps around chip exports to China and alignment challenges from reinforcement learning have increased risk assessments, covering everything from live players in the AI race to safety funding priorities and virtuous actions for navigating our current moment. Check out our sponsors: Linear, Or...

Sep 06, 20253 hr 13 min

In-AI Advertising: Better Answers for Users, Big Questions for Society, with ZeroClick's Ryan Hudson

Today Ryan Hudson, Founder and CEO of ZeroClick, joins The Cognitive Revolution to discuss creating advertising infrastructure for AI applications through paid inference-time consideration of advertiser content, examining how to build sustainable monetization for free-tier AI services while learning from the successes and failures of social media's attention economy. Read the full transcript: ⁠https://storage.aipodcast.ing/transcripts/episode/tcr/00919313-9054-4afb-b08e-2ca84dbdbdda/combined_tra...

Sep 03, 20251 hr 51 min

Material Abundance: Radical AI’s Closed-Loop Lab Automates Scientific Discovery

Today Joseph Krause and Jorge Colindres of Radical AI join The Cognitive Revolution to discuss their ambitious mission to revolutionize materials science by combining AI-powered discovery engines with fully autonomous robotic laboratories, exploring how they're accelerating the development of breakthrough materials like high-entropy alloys and room temperature superconductors that could unlock hypersonic flight, interplanetary travel, and other transformative technologies. Check out our sponsors...

Aug 30, 20251 hr 55 min

Untangling Neural Network Mechanisms: Goodfire's Lee Sharkey on Parameter-based Interpretability

Today Lee Sharkey of Goodfire joins The Cognitive Revolution to discuss his research on parameter decomposition methods that break down neural networks into interpretable computational components, exploring how his team's "stochastic parameter decomposition" approach addresses the limitations of sparse autoencoders and offers new pathways for understanding, monitoring, and potentially steering AI systems at the mechanistic level. Check out our sponsors: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure, Shopify. Show...

Aug 27, 20252 hr 2 min

What if Humans Weaponize Superintelligence, w/ Tom Davidson, from Future of Life Institute Podcast

Today Tom Davidson of Forethought joins Gus Docker of the Future of Life Institute podcast to discuss AI-enabled coups and how future AI systems could help powerful individuals seize political control, exploring three threat models—singular loyalties, secret loyalties, and exclusive access—along with their estimated 10% likelihood over the next 30 years and potential mitigation strategies. Check out our sponsors: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure, Shopify. Shownotes below brought to you by Notion AI M...

Aug 23, 20252 hr 4 min

The AI Whistleblower Initiative: Supporting AGI Insiders When It Matters Most, w/ founder Karl Koch

Today Karl Koch, Co-Founder of the AI Whistleblower Initiative, joins The Cognitive Revolution to discuss the barriers preventing AI insiders from raising safety concerns, his organization's anonymous "Third Opinion" service connecting whistleblowers with independent experts, and their campaign demanding frontier AI companies publish their internal whistleblowing policies to address widespread retaliation and lack of transparency. Check out our sponsors: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure, Shopify. Sho...

Aug 20, 20251 hr 51 min

Autonomous Organizations: Vending Bench & Beyond, w/ Lukas Petersson & Axel Backlund of Andon Labs

Today Lukas Petersson and Axel Backlund of Andon Labs join The Cognitive Revolution to discuss their experiments deploying autonomous AI agents to run real-world vending machines, exploring the safety challenges and unexpected behaviors that emerge when frontier models like Claude and Grok operate without human oversight. Read transcript of the episode here. Check out our sponsors: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure, Shopify. Shownotes below brought to you by Notion AI Meeting Notes - try one month for...

Aug 16, 20251 hr 49 min

Dean W. Ball on America's AI Action Plan & 4 Months at the White House

Today Dean W. Ball, former White House AI policy advisor joins The Cognitive Revolution to discuss his role in crafting the Trump administration's AI Action Plan, his reasons for leaving government, and his perspectives on AI policy, US-China competition, and the future of AI regulation and adoption. Check out our sponsors: Fin, Labelbox, Oracle Cloud Infrastructure, Shopify. Shownotes below brought to you by Notion AI Meeting Notes - try one month for free at https:// notion.com/lp/nathan White...

Aug 13, 20253 hr 14 min

Jake Sullivan on Navigating AI Uncertainty and Managing Competition with China

Today Jake Sullivan, the U.S. National Security Advisor from 2021-2025 joins The Cognitive Revolution to discuss AI as a critical national security issue. Check out our sponsors: Labelbox, Oracle Cloud Infrastructure, Shopify. Shownotes below brought to you by Notion AI Meeting Notes - try one month for free at https:// notion.com/lp/nathan Four-Category Framework : Sullivan organizes his thinking about AI into security, economics, society, and technology categories rather than focusing primaril...

Aug 09, 20251 hr 13 min

Sovereign AI: Geopolitical Strategy & Industrial Policy for Countries 3-193, with Anjney Midha, a16z

Today Anjney Midha, General Partner at a16z joins The Cognitive Revolution to discuss sovereign AI and China's growing semiconductor capabilities. Check out our sponsors: Gemini CLI, Labelbox, Oracle Cloud Infrastructure, Shopify. Shownotes below brought to you by Notion AI Meeting Notes - try one month for free at https://notion.com/lp/nathan What is Sovereign AI ? Varies by stakeholder - for enterprises it means controlling where AI workloads run, while for nation-states it represents both tec...

Aug 06, 20251 hr 43 min

The Revolution in Services: General Catalyst's AI Rollup Strategy, with Marc Bhargava

Marc Bhargava from General Catalyst discusses their Creation Strategy for building AI-enabled roll-ups – companies that start as vertical software startups, then grow by acquiring traditional service businesses and transforming them through AI automation. They explore how systematic analysis of 70 service categories identified 10 verticals where 30-70% of tasks are automatable today, potentially transforming low-margin service businesses into software-like companies with 30-40% margins. The conv...

Aug 02, 20251 hr 24 min

Liability for AI Harms: How Ancient Law Can Govern Frontier Technology Risk, with Prof Gabriel Weil

Gabriel Weil from Touro University argues that liability law may be our best tool for governing AI development, offering a framework that can adapt to new technologies without requiring new legislation. The conversation explores how negligence, products liability, and "abnormally dangerous activities" doctrines could incentivize AI developers to properly account for risks to third parties, with liability naturally scaling based on the dangers companies create. They examine concrete scenarios inc...

Jul 26, 20252 hr 12 min

Private Governance: Creating a Market in AI Regulation, with Dr. Gillian Hadfield & Andrew Freedman

Dr. Gillian Hadfield from Johns Hopkins University and Andrew Freedman from Fathom discuss their innovative proposal to govern AI through private regulatory markets, which has been introduced as California's SB 813. Their system would separate democratic goal-setting from technical rule-making by having government bodies articulate safety outcomes while competitive private certifiers develop and enforce detailed standards, with companies receiving liability protection for compliance. The convers...

Jul 22, 20251 hr 53 min

The Dawn of Dynamic AI: RFT Comes Online, w/ Predibase CEO Dev Rishi, from Inference by Turing Post

This crossover episode from Inference by Turing Post features CEO Dev Rishi of Predibase discussing the shift from static to continuously learning AI systems that can adapt and improve from ongoing user feedback in production. Rishi provides grounded insights from deploying these dynamic models to real enterprise customers in healthcare and finance, exploring both the massive potential upside and significant safety challenges of reinforcement learning at scale. The conversation examines how "pra...

Jul 16, 202536 min

Cracking the Medical Code: Why Cleveland Clinic Doctors Love Their Ambience Healthcare AI Scribe

Brendan Fortuner from Ambience Healthcare and Ben Shahshahani from Cleveland Clinic discuss how AI is transforming medical documentation and coding in a healthcare system that spends $1 trillion annually on administrative tasks. They explore Ambience's technical breakthrough using OpenAI's Reinforcement Fine-Tuning to achieve medical coding accuracy that exceeds human doctors by 12 percentage points, including their specialty-by-specialty approach and solutions to reward hacking behavior. The co...

Jul 10, 20251 hr 29 min

The Data Factory: Inside the $100B Race for Post-Training Supremacy, with Labelbox CEO Manu Sharma

Manu Sharma, founder and CEO of Labelbox, explains how frontier AI training data has evolved far beyond simple labeling to sophisticated reinforcement learning environments where domain experts create "gyms" for models to develop complex skills. With every Western frontier lab now spending over a billion dollars annually on training data, the conversation traces the shift from supervised learning to reinforcement learning from verifiable rewards, particularly for coding, mathematical reasoning, ...

Jul 08, 20251 hr 42 min

Cheat on Everything: Cluely's Vision for Always-On AI Assistance

Roy Lee, founder and CEO of Cluely, discusses his AI startup's $15 million Andreessen Horowitz investment and their provocative "cheat on everything" marketing approach that has gone viral across the tech industry. They explore Cluely's real-time AI assistant that provides undetectable information during meetings and interviews, Roy's philosophy of "AI maximalism," and his vision for a post-AGI world where humans are freed from economic necessity to pursue intrinsic interests. The conversation c...

Jul 05, 20251 hr 20 min

The AI Village: Previewing the Giga-Agent Future with Adam Binksmith, Founder of AI Digest

Adam Binksmith, founder of AI Digest, discusses his AI Village experiment where four frontier AI agents (Claude, o3, and Gemini models) collaborate in a shared environment with persistent memory and group chat access to pursue concrete goals over weeks. The conversation explores fascinating multi-agent dynamics from their completed seasons, including agents raising $2,000 for charity, organizing a real-world San Francisco event that attracted 23 attendees, and displaying surprisingly human-like ...

Jul 02, 20251 hr 25 min

402 Payment Required: a New Way for AI Agents to Pay, with Nemil Dalal, Dev Platform Lead @ Coinbase

Nemil Dalal from Coinbase discusses the x402 protocol, a new open standard that enables AI agents to make cryptocurrency payments for online resources using the long-dormant HTTP 402 "Payment Required" status code. The conversation covers stablecoin fundamentals, including how they work and who maintains their stability, before exploring how crypto wallets with multi-signature capabilities could protect AI agents from adversarial attacks while keeping humans in control. They examine forward-look...

Jun 28, 20251 hr 22 min

2-Sigma in 2 Hours: How Alpha Schools are Using AI to Revolutionize Education

MacKenzie Price, founder of Alpha School & 2 Hour Learning, discusses her revolutionary educational model that uses AI to enable students to master traditional academics in just 2 hours per day while achieving 2.3x faster learning rates than statistical models predict. The conversation explores how Alpha School combines adaptive learning apps with personalized curriculum systems rather than giving students direct chatbot access, and how this frees up afternoons for field trips, independent p...

Jun 25, 20251 hr 22 min

Living Lindy: a No-BS Conversation on AI Agents with Flo Crivello

Flo Crivello, CEO of AI agent platform Lindy, provides a candid deep dive into the current state of AI agents, cutting through hype to reveal what's actually working in production versus what remains challenging. The conversation explores practical implementation details including model selection, fine-tuning, RAG systems, tool design philosophy, and why most successful "AI agents" today are better described as intelligent workflows with human-designed structure. Flo shares insights on emerging ...

Jun 21, 20251 hr 25 min

Embryology of AI: How Training Data Shapes AI Development w/ Timaeus' Jesse Hoogland & Daniel Murfet

Jesse Hoogland and Daniel Murfet, founders of Timaeus, introduce their mathematically rigorous approach to AI safety through "developmental interpretability" based on Singular Learning Theory. They explain how neural network loss landscapes are actually complex, jagged surfaces full of "singularities" where models can change internally without affecting external behavior—potentially masking dangerous misalignment. Using their Local Learning Coefficient measure, they've demonstrated the ability t...

Jun 19, 20251 hr 37 min
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