Twice The Work In Half The Hours: The Dual-Career Individual

Frank Butler  0:17  
Hello Busybodies, welcome to another episode of the Busyness Paradox. I'm Frank Butler here with Paul Harvey.

Paul Harvey  0:24  
Good day.

Frank Butler  0:25  
And on today's episode of The Busyness Paradox, we're going to discuss

Paul Harvey  0:31  
The secret side hustle

Frank Butler  0:33  
Side hustles.

Paul Harvey  0:35  
Secret side hustles

Frank Butler  0:36  
Yes, this is an exciting one, folks. One of our, I guess, now becoming favorite journalists for the Wall Street Journal, Rachel Feintzeig. She wrote this article saying, “These people who work from home have a secret. They have two jobs”. Well, this article was fantastic to read.

Paul Harvey  0:59  
Longtime listeners will remember our inability to properly pronounce Rachel Feintzeig's name from the "Couch or Cubicle" episode a couple months back. As in that episode, we apologize once again to the author of this article and congratulate her on another really awesome article. I think she's proven herself as worthy of joining the cult of Busybodies.

Frank Butler  1:23  
Part of the busybody cult

Paul Harvey  1:25  
Long term listeners will remember...we started a cult, several, whole bunch of episodes back.

Frank Butler  1:30  
That's right. That's right. Well, you know, to get into this new cult thing, one of the discussions that she had here, she was addressing people who are leveraging their work from home environment to be able to get another job 

Paul Harvey 1:47
While keeping the first job

Frank Butler 1:48
Right, while keeping the first job.

Paul Harvey  1:50  
Yeah.

Frank Butler  1:50  
And one of the people that was interviewed for this, he was logging three to 10 hours of actual work a week, when he was doing one job.

Paul Harvey  1:59  
And I believe that person was was a software engineer

Frank Butler  2:03  
Software engineer. Yep,

Paul Harvey  2:04  
That's interesting. That's not just a schlep job, you know.

Frank Butler  2:07  
Right. And he was working for what he said was a media company, an events company. And he said, the rest of it is just attending meetings and pretending to look busy. So he was saying, I work maybe three to 10 hours a week. And then the rest of it was just busyness for meetings. And I mean, that's something we've actually discussed, right? We also talked about how that was a sort of like an artifact of growing bureaucracy as we add more upper level management, and they have employees assigned to them. And so it just creates a whole entire chain of unnecessary meetings and policies that get put in place and then removed or modified. And that's sort of what we're seeing in this, this guy was saying, it's like, hey, three to 10 hours a week of actual work. And what's really fascinating is that, the way they go about holding down these jobs, and you know, the tips and tricks that they have in there, now, I don't think we're gonna get into the secret sauce, necessarily what some of these people are doing. But I think, from a broader point of view, one of the things that we keep saying is this Uberification, or Uberization, or whatever you want to call it of your workforce, right. So you give them a salary job, they're there, but knowing full well that instead of trying to give them busy work, you want to maybe create a market for tasks that people can do internally for extra money. So you retain that talent for yourself. And you can leverage their skills, and they can get more from it. So instead of going out and working a second job, maybe it's all about what they're doing for you

Paul Harvey  3:39  
Might help the employer by not having to hire more full time people to do these little side projects that your current employees can do. So it can be kind of a win win. I think this whole idea of a secret side hustle is sort of the endgame of what happens if you don't do that. If you don't give your employees more meaningful work to do and more opportunities to do something valuable with all their time, they're gonna find someone else who will, they're not necessarily going to leave your job. That's right, we'll be doing the other job too, which I think is kind of really in some ways, I'm a little surprised that we haven't, I mean, we've sort of talked about this kind of thing ourselves, but not to the level that apparently a lot of people have thought this through. In the Wall Street Journal article is this website overemployed.com, and there's a whole community apparently, of these people that are doing exactly this, doing a lot of remote work because of COVID and everything, and they've decided to work two jobs simultaneously. without the knowledge of either employer to full time jobs at the same time basically, should be impossible. But if you're truly talking about a quarter of the traditional 40 Hour Workweek being used in actual productive tasks, yeah, it makes very little sense not to do something like this with your time, not that we're, you know, telling your listeners go out and get a secret second job, but the implications of it for management I think are quite profound

Frank Butler  4:59  
And that's just it right? The implications are quite profound. And the benefits can also be quite profound. I mean, for the employee in particular, right? They're able to double dip, make more money, do more with their time, probably feel more fulfilled even right?

Paul Harvey  5:16  
Oh, yeah.

Frank Butler  5:17  
Especially when you start seeing those paychecks roll in without question.

Paul Harvey  5:21  
That's the thing. If you think about this, the money's got to be impressive.

Frank Butler  5:25  
Yeah, exactly.

Paul Harvey  5:26  
If you're talking two full time salaried jobs, with all the 401k retirement contributions, whatever, like this could really add up. It’s actually the slogan of that overemployed.com, “work two remote jobs, reach financial freedom”.

Frank Butler  5:42  
See and even better is if they both provide benefits, you can decline the benefits of one

Paul Harvey  5:47  
Yup

Frank Butler  5:47  
Right? You get to pick the benefit

Paul Harvey  5:48  
Take the cash

Frank Butler  5:50  
And take the extra money from the other. I mean, it's just there's so much value that can be had, I certainly understand why people do it. And I understand why there's this over employed comm site. I mean, it makes sense. It's so absolutely. What we inherently do, I think, as Americans at the end of the day, right, this idea of entrepreneurship, sort of being at the core of everybody's mind, everybody would love to be an entrepreneur in some way. I think in a sense, this is sort of a type of entrepreneurship, you are creating your opportunities for yourself.

Paul Harvey  6:22  
Exactly.

Frank Butler  6:22  
And it's giving you this feeling of freedom, it puts the control from the employers hands to the employees hands. Because if you think about it, what happens if you get laid off from one of your two jobs? Well, you've got a job

Paul Harvey  6:36  
You’ve got a full time job

Frank Butler  6:37  
I mean, that's freaking outstanding, right? Now, only that that gives you negotiating power to it's like, hey, I need a raise, or I'd love to get this promotion, or whatever it is, and they go, and you know, it's not gonna happen, you know, well, you know what, I'm gonna take this job over here, I'm out, and then go find another job. So you've already got this other job, and you go find a second job, once you replace it.

Paul Harvey  6:59  
So, you can say, with honesty, like, I will quit, if I don't get this raise,

Frank Butler  7:02  
Right

Paul Harvey  7:03  
Call my bluff, go for it. Not knowing that you have a second job on the side.

Frank Butler  7:06  
But it does make me think about, when you start increasing your personal footprint from the financial side, it means that your costs tend to go up too, right, I found that the harder I work, which yields usually, oftentimes additional monies right from consulting on the side, or taking on overload opportunities, it means I have less personal time, which means that then I also have to incur other expenses, like hiring lawn service, or maybe people to come and take care of the house, these kinds of things are more dry cleaning bills, or whatever it might be. The challenge is that if I didn't take on those opportunities, I'd have to scale back again. And it might not be so easy for some people, because they might have bought a house that is based on those two salaries or 

Paul Harvey  7:49  
Just stop there. Because they might have bought a house. 

Frank Butler  7:51  
Yeah, well, yeah, 

Paul Harvey  7:52  
That's your second job

Frank Butler  7:53  
Or a really nice car, I mean, 

Paul Harvey  7:55  
Or a really nice car, or both. That's the thing, I think this only really works if you're working remotely at a job that is primarily made up of busywork, which is the sad truth for a lot of people. But you know, in your case, you're talking about a job that legitimately takes all the hours that you'll throw at it. So anything else you do is you know, those hours aren't going to come out of the arbitrary 40 budgeted for the job, they're going to come out of your time. So if you have a fulfilling job that really takes a full 40 or 50, or whatever, how many hours a week, this is probably not for you. I'm sorry. 

Frank Butler  8:32  
I would also hazard that if you have an employee who's working like that, who doesn't have the freedom to take another job, you probably need to pay them more. 

Paul Harvey  8:44  
Yeah?

Frank Butler  8:45  
So you don't run into this situation right now where these people have a choice. And 

Paul Harvey  8:50  
And that's part of the argument here. 

Frank Butler 8:52
Yeah

Paul Harvey  8:52
Right. Basically, employees saying that, you know, I've had employers gaming me my whole life. Finally, we get to turn the tables around. So yeah, there is a bit of angst in this community, I think, but that aside, it's it's an interesting thing. You actually said something about increasing your financial footprint, that sort of awoke something way in the depths of my brain. I think I have a memory of 

Frank Butler  9:23  
Your tick-addled brain

Paul Harvey  9:24  
Maybe that tick addled-brain might or might not recall someone getting caught doing something like this, because the accounting, like, the payroll department, or, you know, when you make certain amounts of money, I think, does the IRS, this is for the US, does the IRS... seems to me that somehow, the withholding changed because, oh, it was because it was paying into Social Security. That's what it was. They said, you know, this person, Social Security is paid up for the year, you know, there's a maximum dollar amount that beyond that point, you don't pay into Social Security anymore until the following calendar year, and they hit that point way too soon. So someone in payroll is like what's going on here, and happened to unravel the whole thing. I think that's something that happened a fairly long time ago. It's not a recent thing. But things like that. 

Frank Butler  10:16  
It could certainly easily happen. 

Paul Harvey  10:18  
It could happen. And apparently, that's a big part of this is the fear of getting caught. And it's kind of a shame that has to be a secret like this. But at the same time, I think this only works if it is a secret 

Frank Butler  10:28  
Right

Paul Harvey  10:28  
Like you said offline. Otherwise, you probably run into a situation where you get 1099ed, treated as a subcontractor and compensated accordingly 

Frank Butler  10:37  
Which would be better

Paul Harvey  10:39  
which would be better in some ways. Yeah.

Frank Butler  10:41  
You would not get hit on the social security issue, for example. 

Paul Harvey  10:45  
You still have to pay it, though, don't you 

Frank Butler  10:46  
You do 

Paul Harvey  10:47  
Yeah

Frank Butler  10:47  
But It wouldn't be flagged by the company because they

Paul Harvey  10:49  
Oh, it wouldn't get flagged. Yeah. Well, they wouldn't really care at that point. Right? If you are a 1099 employee, they don't really, unless you're doing work on the hours that you're contracted.

Frank Butler  10:59  
Technically, yeah, that would be the issue. No, I think it's important to bring up there is a lawyer who's also asked about this as being a legal issue. And the lawyers said that it is not. That an employment contract, the worst that you can have is be fired, right? He's like, it's a contract issue. You're jeopardizing your employee, your employment, rather. And there's very few things that can rise to what would be considered criminal violations. The one thing that this attorney I guess they were Jackson Lewis PC in New York, Richard Greenberg, the one thing that he did say, though, is that if you do have a non-compete, there could be legal aspects there. But I mean, if you think about non-competes, they typically say you can't work for a similar business, in the same industry kind of thing. Not that you can't work another job, let's say in a completely different industry. So there wouldn't be much of a case with a non compete there. 

Paul Harvey  11:59  
Right. And I think anyone who's in that position of a non-compete, I have to think, realizes that they're in a position where that's going to guide their strategy here, I would hope

Frank Butler  12:08  
Right. And you know, there's a couple other things that stood out for me. One was this one lady who is doing this, she basically said that she's like, am I trying to be a five star employee? No, she's just really trying to do enough of the job to not get fired. Now, that's a fascinating thing. And she's doing so well that she actually hired a personal assistant, who sits in on the calls when she is double booked. And so if she's needed in the other meeting, she will be alerted. And she can go hop on and that meet, and it just blows my mind that she's making enough that she can hire an assistant. 

Paul Harvey  12:48  
That is awesome. 

Frank Butler  12:49  
That is awesome.

Paul Harvey  12:51  
You mentioned something that seems to be a recurring theme in the article and in this community, that to make this work, you kind of have to go in committed to doing maybe not the bare minimum at both jobs, but you're setting the bar fairly low at both jobs. In fact, there's an article on that overemployed.com. I think it's called exactly that, like how to set the bar, where is it here? How to set low expectations at your two remote jobs. The idea is that you're not going into this, with the idea of being a superstar at either job, you're going into this with a plan of staying employed to both jobs. Which is unfortunate, you know, the fact that we're even having this conversation is a bit ridiculous. But folks, this is what happens when you insist on arbitrary amounts of hours that are not aligned, or what's the word I'm looking for that are not, eh...finish my sentence for me Frank

Frank Butler  13:44  
I would say, really in line with reality of what the job is,

Paul Harvey  13:47  
Yeah, thank you. Yeah. This is what happens.

Frank Butler  13:51  
This is exactly what happens. I think that's a great point. In going with that, too. I mean, there's thinking about this idea, right? You're not putting in your best effort. So if you're a little bit type A, you're you're probably not going to be doing this because you're going to feel like 

Paul Harvey  14:08  
Or you'd be very good at this 

Frank Butler  14:09  
You're letting your other job down because you can't give it your best effort. But if you're one of those that does believe in satisficing in some way now here's the kind of thinking now I'm just it's just do I juices in my brain are going now, my non tick-addled brain but my ADHD 

Paul Harvey  14:26  
What's that like? 

Frank Butler  14:28  
I mean, if I can keep it to one thought it's it's fantastic

Paul Harvey  14:33  
If I can get to one thought it's fantastic,

Frank Butler  14:35  
Squirrel! Oh, wait, sorry. Um, no, the, the one thing that I started thinking about with this, though, is what happens to your promoteability or if you're just doing good enough, what's the long term ramifications from doing this? If you're not putting in your best effort, the likelihood of you being promoted is probably a little lower. Although I would say that if you knew about all the other jobs that you might be doing, I would think hey, actually I like the way this person is being resourceful. 

Paul Harvey  15:02  
Yes

Frank Butler  15:02  
Maybe they are worthy of promotion. But 

Paul Harvey  15:05  
Right

Frank Butler  15:05  
Just from a general sense, I'm thinking, you're probably limiting your job evaluations, and they're probably good enough to keep you employed, but not good enough to get merit-based raises or promotions when they come available, because you're not putting in that effort that makes you stand out in some way. And I just feel like that would, in the long term, hurt your long term growth

Paul Harvey  15:30  
Knowing that I was phoning it in, you know, doing the bare minimum at one or both jobs, it would be tough for me. And there is a long term risk to it, like you said, it almost has to stunt your long term career trajectory. I think probably the counter-argument is that your career trajectory doesn't have to be as long if you're doing this, right. If you're doubling your your salary, in theory, you can be cutting in half the amount of time left before you're able to retire.

Frank Butler  15:59  
But that requires you to plan for that right 

Paul Harvey  16:01  
It does, yeah 

Frank Butler  16:02  
Because most people can't think beyond three to five years out, you know,

Paul Harvey  16:06  
I would hope people doing this, at least the people in this community that we're seeing that are doing this secret side hustle thing, they seem like they're on top of their game with the stuff but yeah, you're right, the general populace, not so much 

Frank Butler  16:19  
You would just have to think you have to plan and live within what you think your salary should be, or what your retirement savings you want to have, right. So if you're doubling that pay, you can't live up into that doubled pay, you would have to be very aggressive with how you budget and invest your money. Because I would imagine that you don't have a long window of being able to do the double dip

Paul Harvey  16:43  
Right. You'd really have to be one of those F-I-R-E, you know, the FIRE, financial independence, retire early. There's a whole other community books and everything on that, I think you'd have to be really working that lifestyle and that mindset to get the most out of this.

Frank Butler  17:00  
And that's where I would fail. Like I'd have no issues like giving my best in both jobs. But it'd be difficult to do the job. But

Paul Harvey  17:10  
I see what you're saying

Frank Butler  17:11  
I don't know, I kind of think that life is short. And so you got to enjoy it now. And so I'm taking care of my planning for retirement. I also think that the great unknown of what the future holds, could mean that, you know, I die too early, and what fun would I have had if I didn't take care of things now to you know, to at least have some enjoyment now. And I know that fire community, oftentimes you sacrifice a lot of those early joys, with an aggressive savings plan. And there's nothing wrong with that. But what are the what if there's an off chance that you've sort of almost gone for a priest-like lifestyle, and you've saved all this money, you got nowhere to go with it because you're you've 

Paul Harvey  17:57  
Hit by a bus

Frank Butler  17:57  
You're dead, or you become incapacitated from another disease or something?

Paul Harvey  18:02  
As we always say, everything's a trade off. I know, especially when you're younger, you can do stuff that you can't do when you're older. I don't know, I think it has to appeal to you in other ways. Like, I really like the idea of living in a van and just banking, like 98% of my paycheck. But not everyone feels that way. My wife, for example, you'll notice that we don't live in a van. That's probably most of the reason why. Because not everyone wants that lifestyle. So yeah, there's there's a lot that goes into this.

Frank Butler  18:32  
I think you’d struggle with the van because of the tools

Paul Harvey  18:35  
Tools?

Frank Butler  18:35  
Yeah, you know, like working on, tinkering on things, trying to figure out, 

Paul Harvey  18:41  
Tinkering on the van

Frank Butler  18:41  
Well, you know, you got to move those tools around, though. You need to get those awesome tools to be able to do it. And 

Paul Harvey  18:47  
You're right

Frank Butler  18:47  
Make those decisions. Every...we've got, we all have our vices, right? I mean, truly, you know,

Paul Harvey  18:53  
I’d just build an enormous, like, 2000 square foot shed for all the tools and live in the van.

Frank Butler  19:01  
Yes

Paul Harvey  19:01  
Climate controlled so they don't rust, you know

Frank Butler  19:04  
The joke we have is that we build a giant garage, or a warehouse building, basically, that's a garage mainly to put the toys in, and then we'd have a little teeny house. Oh, man. No, but I mean, you got to still eat. All this stuff does take some modicum of money and what have you. But and I think that keeps coming back to another theme we talked about, which is flexibility. Companies need to be flexible with how people want to work and should work. I mean, we're in an environment today that technology allows for that. But people also have to make decisions that are in the best interest for themselves. Do I fault these people who are getting a second job right now with the work from home? No, I think it's brilliant. I think take advantage of it when you can. Maybe I think long term it might be not beneficial. Probably but That's the decision they need to make. I just think that if you're going to make a decision like this, think very carefully about the long term possibilities or long term issues. Now, if it's a temporary state, and you're okay with understanding, it's going to be a temporary state of making some extra money. Go for it, you know, understanding full well that at some point, you do need to think about, where do you want to be as you get older, it's hard to do the most people don't think for themselves beyond three to five years, it's very hard to conceptualize what a future might look like.

Paul Harvey  20:30  
But you can set yourself up real well, if you handle the time that you spend double-dipping very carefully. There's a segment in the Wall Street Journal article, where they apparently verified the information of a lot of these employees that they were interviewing. See, it says verified the workers’ accounts by examining offer letters, employment contracts, concurrent pay stubs, and corporate emails. Most of them say they're on track to earn a total of 200 to nearly 600,000 a year, including bonuses, and so on. So if you can pull that off for a few years, you're already talking about higher earners to begin with, presumably, but if you can pull that off for a few years, and not blow the money. Pu t it aside for whatever future retirement kids college fund, whatever you need to do it in you. You buy yourself a lot of flexibility in your later years, if you handle this correctly. Yeah, yeah. But that's exactly like you said, that's something that's going to depend on a lot of individual variables that will change from one person to the other.

Frank Butler  21:32  
And I would also imagine that if you were doing this, and you're going to anticipate making that kind of money, your employer is probably not going to notice as true the pay or your Social Security cap out, just because they know you're going to cap out anyway, they're not going to anticipate 

Paul Harvey  21:53  
Though still, if you hit it in half the time that your pay stubs say you should

Frank Butler  21:57  
True

Paul Harvey  21:58  
I don't know if that's something that actually...I imagine most people working payroll would say "eh, whatever". But that is part of the recurring theme of this article and this community is that there's a lot of stress of getting caught involved. And so that's just one of the things that you might have to deal with. 

Frank Butler  22:14  
I'm wondering you how much it gets flagged, though, if you've got automated payroll, you know, that's because I mean, this is all set up and just automatically cuts it and goes, right. So I would imagine unless you have a warning flag, and then I can see it with a smaller company, right, where payroll is still somewhat manually manually managed. And you've got maybe 20-30 employees, somebody could probably notice, oh, you know, Sally over here, she's no longer paying Social Security.

Paul Harvey  22:42  
I think an automated system would raise up a red flag, and someone would be assigned to look into those kinds of red flags. And what happens next? Who knows?

Frank Butler  22:52  
Yeah, well, I mean, I would imagine those cases though, that system, they would have to manually set up notification for that. I don't think it's something that's

Paul Harvey  22:58  
Right. But I think they do, like right, just anomalies, like, things to look into, like, why did this happen? You know, not high priority things. But

Frank Butler  23:07  
Sure, no, you're right. I mean, there's there's probably a lot actually, yeah, if anybody knows, let us know, that's something interesting. I think we should wrap though with this one last guy, because I think this is important too, we sort of already touched on it and discussed how it gives employees the power more so than the employer. And so this one guy here, he was doing this, he started taking on more work. And he said that he was now working 100 hours a week, and very little of it for the original job that he had. And he got confronted by his manager, saying that you're not doing enough. And he was like, Man, I'm busting my butt. But then he realized that, yeah, he's busting his butt for, you know, multiple jobs, not just for the one job. And so it became obvious to his employer, that he wasn't putting forth the effort that he had once done, and he left that job. But he was able to leverage that with another company, and he negotiated his employment contract that gave him the, what he says, the ability to do other jobs on the side. And he quotes he says, quote, now I feel totally free. That to me, is the right way to do it.

Paul Harvey  24:23  
That is the correct way to do it. It's not the way to do it if you really want to play the system, though. We're not suggesting that you should really play the system of getting the dual benefits of having a full time job that are designed on the assumption that that's your only full time job. If you have that contract where you're allowed to do site stuff, your compensation is probably built around that aspect, right? I would assume. 

Frank Butler  24:44  
Well, I mean, I think then, too, it creates a level of understanding on both parties that hey, this is not my only gig. This is my primary gig. You're going to pay me like it's my primary gig and I'm going to give you the efforts that makes it my primary gig. At least that's the way it should line up and don't, then clearly they can fire you. If they find that you're not living up to your expectations in your work contract,

Paul Harvey  25:09  
Then this whole new community is going to pop up of having two primary gigs.

Frank Butler  25:13  
Yep. Crazy. Again, I think my general stance is that this is great. I think it's something that people should be doing. I think there's a lot of protection that comes with this a lot of peace of mind that if I lose the one job, at least I have this other to fall back on.

Paul Harvey  25:29  
I think it's great because it exposes so much so much of the flaws and the mistakes that are made in the current system that we're always talking about. I wish there wasn't, I wish I didn't have to be a thing. But since all the problems are there, I'm glad that this exists as sort of a reaction to it.

Frank Butler  25:45  
I agree. And this still stems from the same issues that a lot of the things that we talked about on the show, the job has not evolved as quickly as the technology to get the jobs done has.

Paul Harvey  26:00  
That's what we said in our very first episode.

Frank Butler  26:03  
And I think the jobs have to change to appreciate that I think maybe instead of a universal basic income argument, maybe we need to start talking about that idea of time. What is time for a job? You know, it's not 40 hours. I mean, we got to scrap that idea I mean there's sure there's certain jobs that are but those are things like, if you think about a lawyer job, you're billing by the hour or you're an accountant, you're billing by the hour, 

Paul Harvey  26:24  
Some accountants

Frank Butler  26:25  
Yeah, well, some accountants, right. But you know, most of these jobs that are out there, they don't require somebody being there 40 hours a week,

Paul Harvey  26:34  
That's the traditional office job, quote, unquote, that for lack of a more creative scheduling approach is just slapped with a 40 hour a week expectation

Frank Butler  26:45  
Right. I think that's it. That's it. And this is something that even Rachel says, in this article, "the pandemic freed employees from having to report to the office", 

Paul Harvey  27:25  
Yup 

Frank Butler  26:53  
They could, they actually it says it here, it's like, "Why be good at one job, they thought when they could be mediocre at two." And I think that's the whole thing. And we've said it before, the pandemic is creating an opportunity for businesses, for organizations of all types, to rethink what it means to employ people how to employ people, and I think to do so without negatively impacting their pay. In fact, we could maybe even more favorably impact compensation because of these types of changes. And whether that compensations through you

Paul Harvey  27:25  
If you don't do it, your employees are gonna do it.

Frank Butler  27:28  
Right, right, right. They're gonna find a way right like finds a way 

Paul Harvey  27:32  
They're gonna find a way 

Frank Butler  27:33  
To quote... what is it Malcolm from Jurassic Park "life finds a way"

Paul Harvey  27:38  
Is that's what that's from, I was thinking Lion King. I wasn't even close.

Frank Butler  27:43  
Man, it's I think it was... who's the guy who plays Malcom crazy actor from the fly. Oh, gosh.

Paul Harvey  27:50  
Gold...stein? Gold, something.

Frank Butler  27:54  
It's something like that. Jeff Goldblum, thank you there it is. Jeff Goldblum. That was a that was a really random segue. But with that, folks, I think we'd love to hear from you. Again, as always check out our website. There's articles, we post in our busy bytes on there. We'd love to hear about your experiences. If you work payroll in any way. Let us know if you flags people's stuff. If they pay their social security off too early. And you get notified by the government for that,

Paul Harvey  28:21  
Or for any other reason 

Frank Butler  28:23  
Yeah

Paul Harvey  28:23  
Would...would your employer and could your employer detect employees doing this? And if so, how would they react?

Frank Butler  28:30  
Right. And again, I think it goes back to you've mentioned, Paul, that these people will do stress about getting caught. That is obviously a stressor, I'm sure it's probably offset by the money that they're making. So they're like, okay, it's worth the risk

Paul Harvey  28:44  
Right. 

Frank Butler  28:44  
But you have to be very calculated if you're going to do something like this. And you really need to think through the process and implications for potentially long term for your lifestyle, your career, your everything. So 

Paul Harvey  28:58  
Exactly. 

Frank Butler  28:58  
Go get a second job.

Paul Harvey  28:59  
Get out there. Get a second job.

Frank Butler  29:02  
Everybody, thanks for listening. Love to hear from you, till next time.

Paul Harvey  29:06  
Good day, folks.

The Busyness Paradox is distributed by Paul Harvey and Frank Butler. Our theme music is adapted from "It’s Business Time" by Jemaine Clements and Brett McKenzie. Our production manager is Justin Wuntaek. We hope you enjoyed this episode and we'd love to hear from you. Please send questions, comments or ideas for future episode topics to input@Busynessparadox.com or find us on Twitter. Also, be sure to visit our website, Busynessparadox.com to read our blog posts and for links to the articles and other resources mentioned in today's show. Finally, please take a moment to rate and follow or subscribe to our show on Apple podcasts, Spotify, I-Heart Radio, Google podcasts or your preferred podcast provider.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai