Hello Sunshine, Hey fam Today on the bright Side, New York Times bestselling author Jay Courtney Sullivan is here with us for this month's edition of shelf Life. Her novel The Cliffs is Reese's book Club pick for July. We're talking about the power of writing personal stories and the curious ways she finds inspiration. It's Monday, July twenty ninth. I'm Simone Boyce.
I'm Danielle Robe and this is the bright Side from Hello Sunshine, a daily show where we come together to share women's stories, to laugh, learn and brighten your day. Simone, I'm so happy to see your face. We got a lot of FaceTime this past week in Nashville.
Yes, it was so fun to hang out with you in a different setting and just decompress with some of our favorite Hello Sunshine girlies. I also got to catch up with some of my really good friends who lived there, and I stayed an extra day at in airbnbus. This historic home with beautiful floor and beautiful staircase. It's just so charming there. The architecture in Nashville is amazing.
I know you love great decor.
It's true. I'm a sucker for it.
I hope you had an amazing extra day there. It's so fun in Nashville.
I had the best time. Okay, Bessies, it's on my mind Monday, you know what time it is. It is an opportunity for us to start the week with some fresh perspective.
Yes, Simon, what's on your mind?
Girl?
Okay?
I want to talk about this article that I came across in The Atlantic called Why You Should Trust your Gut. And this article lays out away to help us recognize that gut feeling in our own bodies that can help steer us in the right direction.
That's really interesting because we hear gut instinct that term all of the time, and we're told to trust those instincts, right, But I think it can feel very vague. So I'm wondering if the article lays out tangible ways for us to know how to listen to our gut.
So the writer Arthur Brooks, he's one of our favorites. He writes a lot about happiness and contentment and just optimizing your life, and he says that you should pay attention to three key feelings in any gut reaction, excitement, fear, and deadness. So obviously you can guess what excitement is. It's the one that he says that should never be absent. So you should always feel prospective happiness or some sort
of joy for what you think is to come. And then there's fear, which can manifest as both danger and dread. And the writer says that danger in the right dosage can be positive, but dread is never good, and dread is like one degree away from deadness. So as you can imagine that's really nice, comes to the bright side on Monday, you gotta have the deadness to find the brightness. Okay,
I like it. Life's all about contrast, right. So deadness is what Arthur Brooks describes as the feeling that's associated with numbness, loneliness, hopelessness, and despair. And when it comes to gut reactions, he says, that's a sensation that you want to look out for and avoid. So all in all, when making a decision based on your gut, we should be using this metric system, this three prong test of a lot of excitement, some fear of danger, and almost
no deadness. I'm going to go for no deadness. That's my goal.
Let's do no deadness.
I actually think it's really interesting that he cites two of these sort of negative emotions fear and deadness or dread, because I have mixed feelings on gut instincts. So there's a lot of evidence to support that gut instincts are actually just an amalgamation of all of our past experiences.
That's really interesting.
So when you get a gut instinct or that intuition, you have to make sure that you're not confusing it with familiarity, because familiarity can be bad patterning and you're not even recognizing it right. So I think a really good example of this is hiring. Imagine that you are hiring for an important position at your company and there's a candidate that walks in for an interview and something about them just feels off to you, even though they
have a great resume, great references. There's just something about it that in your gut feels like it's not the right fit. A lot of times that can just be unconscious bias because you haven't had experiences with that type of person. And I actually think the same goes for dating, that sometimes people miss out on awesome people because they're
used to dating somebody that's familiar to them. I think we just have to make sure that we're separating our intuition from our familiarity because we could be missing out on some great stuff.
That's a really good point, and I really want to learn more about the research behind that, because that sounds fascinating.
Our guest today is someone.
Who seems to have a really good grasp on feelings, excitement, fear, joy, and most importantly, inspiration.
Yes, yes, that's so true, Danielle. So every month we interview the Reese's book Club author in our segment called shelf Life, and this month's author, j Courtney Sullivan, writes generational stories about women, and what's unique about her is that she's often inspired by places and objects that she comes across in her own life. But the key distinction
is these are places and objects with a soul. Like in the past, an engagement ring inspired her book The Engagements, and most recently, an abandoned house in Maine was the source of inspiration for her latest book, The Cliffs. Wow, you know this got me thinking about a major source of inspiration for me. As a little girl, I became known as the castle girl in kindergarten, Danielle.
In kindergarten.
Yes, in kindergarten, because I would just draw castles, pictures of castles all day long. I was like really fascinated with royalty, with enchanted, living with motes. I don't know, I was just obsessed. So this castle obsession of mine evolved into a secret garden obsession. You know how there are like horse girls. I was like, I became a Secret garden girl. And I became obsessed with that movie,
The Secret Garden. I just loved the aesthetic of it and the story and the emotion behind it, and really this idea of like happening upon this magical, verdant place where I could escape. And one day it happened to me.
I was playing in my backyard in Miami, and I was kicking a ball around with some friends, and I kicked the ball into this patch of palm trees, and so I go through there looking for the ball, and I had my own little Narnia moment because I climbed through the palm trees to find that the ball is now inside of this outdoor room that's encased in trees. And there's this one really big tree that was like perfect for climbing, and it had all these incredible thick
roots and life like vines hanging from it. And it was one of the coolest discoveries of my entire life. And this little secret garden became my escape in my own backyard.
You must have felt like you could manifest anything I did.
That secret garden became such an escape for me. It was a place where I could bring my friends, where we could turn our imagination on and turn the world off. And it has given me this sense of hope that you can still find enchantment around the corner in your everyday life. And I think j Courtney Sullivan, our guest today, feels the same way.
Oh yeah, you can tell that just from reading her book. I cannot wait to talk to her. So after the break, Courtney's telling us what it's like to have her work celebrated by incredible women like Gloria Steinham, Oprah Winfrey, and of course Reese Witherspoon. We're also going to chat with her about writing from personal experience and the power of imagination.
That's up next. Stay with us, y'all.
Courtney, welcome to the bright Side.
Thank you so much for having me.
So.
You're really known for these multi layered generational stories about women, and your first book commencement was recognized by Gloria Steinem, Oprah Winfrey, and of course our own Reese Witherspoon. What does it mean to have these women celebrate your work?
Oh, it's completely incredible. When Gloria Steinem blurbed my first novel, I was working as a research assistant at the New York Times. Yeah, and I was used to answering the phone for my boss, who was an abed columnist who got calls from all kinds of incredible people all the time. So the phone rang and she said, Hi, this is Gloria Steinem, this is Courtney and I said yes, and She's said, okay, do you have a pen? I'm going to tell you the blurb. And I was like what?
And I literally almost fell off my chair. It was such an extraordinary moment.
I just don't know where you go from there.
It's so unbelievable, Like, especially because your ethos is so built around sharing women's stories, that sort of acknowledgment just must have felt pretty incredible.
Absolutely.
Yes, you say that your primary obsession with fiction is this idea that quote the moment a woman is born will determine so much of what she's allowed to become. That is such a powerful thought. Can you share what you mean by that?
Yeah. I think all of my books, although they're very different in their subject matter, come back around to that central idea, of course, their self determination. But also we always exist within the confines of our cultural moment. So when I'm writing about generations of women in one family.
My book Saints for All Occasions is about Irish Catholic family very similar to my own in some ways, And I think about the matriarch in that book, who, like my own great grandmother, came over alone from Ireland at the age of sixteen to Boston and is the reason our family has been American ever since, you know, And I think about what I was able to do when I was sixteen, and the thought of just like crossing an ocean and starting a whole new life is so
incredible to me. That was my great grandmother in her particular moment, and because of what she did in her particular moment, each subsequent generation has been able to get as far as we've been able to get.
Do you think about her and like call in her strength?
Ever?
Oh? Yeah, definitely. I mean this book the cliffs is you know, very woo woo in a lot of ways, and I'm pretty woo woo in a lot of ways, And so I almost think of my grandmother, my great grandmother, or my mother, myself, you know, my daughter now, like versions of the same person, just with different external possibilities, and of course that shifts and changes who you are
internally as well. And I with every book I write, you know, I wrote this novel, The Engagements, and that's the only book I've written that had a real person at its center. Francis Garrity, who wrote the line A diamond is Forever in the nineteen forties, and I still think about her all the time. I even this is really woo woo. Had when I was really in the thick of writing that book, I had a dream where like I was her in the dream from her point
of view, which I've never had that happen before. I don't know if that makes sense now, but I get so close with all the women in my books, she's the only one who was actually a real person.
And I actually think that one of the things that feels really distinctive about you and your writing that I haven't heard a lot of authors say is that you include a piece of your personal story in your novels. With the Cliffs, your main character, Jane and her family struggle with alcoholism, and you've shared that you are eight years sober, which is just such a huge accomplishment, and so I'm curious as to why you wanted to include that in this story.
Yeah, you know, I think that when I'm writing a novel, it's never because I feel like I have this clear cut thing to tell the world or that I have all the answers. It's more that whatever the burning question in my mind is, I want to explore it and find out how I really feel about it. And the way to do that for me is writing fiction. That's sort of how I process everything. And so for me writing this book, you know, I started it four years into being sober, and I've been working on it for
four years. In some ways very helpful because Jane is such a hot mess of a drinker that it didn't make me want to drink, you know, writing what she does all the time is like, oh, thank God, I don't drink anymore. But I think when you are a drinker, when you have made mistakes like Jane does, like I have the silver lining of that is like, you forgive people more easily. You understand that everyone makes crazy mistakes all the time, and people have forgiven you, so you
can extend that grace to them. Jane, I wanted her to be in the process of figuring it out, so she isn't, you know, wildly drunken. In every chapter, she isn't reformed. She's kind of in the middle, and she's still hoping she doesn't have a problem even though she knows she does. And I think most alcoholics have that
experience where you know you'll go through the checklist. I certainly did this where you're like, okay, ten signs that you might be an alcoholic, and you go through nine of them and can check them off easily, but the tenth one is like do you pour cut into your cheerios in the morning, And you're like, oh, I don't
do that. Okay, good, can continue freak. I also really wanted to write about because I think it's very common of a high functioning woman, a woman who's so good at her job, a woman who people don't think of as an alcoholic until you know she's very good at kind of siloing these different parts of her life until she.
Is You mentioned that every book starts with an open ended question for you, what was the question that launched the cliffs.
That's a great question. So this time around, I write a book about this woman who reluctantly returns to her hometown and this big Victorian house. And in the process of writing this book, I have left New York after twenty two years there, moved home to my hometown, something I truly never in a million years thought would happen. And my husband and I and our kids now live in this Victorian house with a plaque on the front door that is exactly like the house in the book.
I've moved back to New England, and I think a big part of the question I was sort of probing was like, we are so interested in our own history in New England. We're all about the first you know, what was the first? And so in the book, there's a plaque on the side of the house and it says it's the Samuel Littleton House, right, and it has
the date that this house was built. Really, it's the lives of women that have sort of permeated that house and the land on which it sits, and the idea that if you put your name on something, if you put a plaque on something, that means you discovered it. I wanted to kind of really explore that and turn it on its head, and this sort of idea of retelling history, looking at it through a different lens and thinking about whose stories do get told and uplifted and preserved.
Well.
On that note, your editor posed a question in the reader note at the beginning of the book, and it really sparked curiosity and a new train of thought for me. The question is what belongs to us after we die? So how do you answer that question? Now?
That's such an interesting one. Yeah. So, you know, in this book, we have Jane, We have this present day storyline. We have Jane dealing with her drinking and her marriage imploding and her life imploding on several fronts. But we also have the stories of all the women who lived in this house on this land over four hundred years. And even though for the most part they do not meet, I really thought of them as being in conversation with
one another through time. Sometimes they are literally in conversation with each other, but mostly it's what each one leaves behind and the next one sort of picks up, if that makes sense, And so I think I kind of
could go one of two ways. On the one hand, we're looking at it through Jane's very realistic archivist eyes, your story passes on to whoever it is who wants to tell it or doesn't, depending And then there's this other really sort of supernatural part of the book, which is the belief in an afterlife, the belief that, you know, mediums can connect us with lost loved ones. And I think every novel comes from a whole bunch of places, and often you're asked to kind of pinpoint like the start.
So I always say with this book, it was this house that I discovered that was the basis for the house in the book. But there were a lot of things, and one of the things was that a couple of my very close friends had lost their mothers. One of the first things they did after they lost their mothers
was try to connect to them through mediums. And I thought that was so moving and profound and interesting that when we lose someone in our grief, sometimes what we believe in, you know, we're willing to expand the boundaries of that.
So I know you're was inspirational for your creativity in this book, I'm wondering what the most outrageous or sort of outlandish object is that you've ever used for creativity in your novels oooh, I love that question.
So in that book, The Engagements, there are these sort of secret memos between the ad agency that Francis worked for, which was called NWAIR and De Beer's Diamonds. And these secret memos went back and forth every year between the two and they had been quoted in some nonfiction books, but I was never able to locate where they were. I was told that they were at the Smithsonian at Boston University. I went on this wild goose chase, could not find them, and I came to believe that no
one had ever really seen the memos. And on the day this book was due to my publisher, it was done. But I was going to Francis Garretty's house. I had contacted the woman who bought the house from her. Francis had been dead then for many years, but I just wanted to see the rooms that she occupied, you know, I just wanted that small touch. And when I was leaving that woman's house, she said, by the way, when I moved in here, there was a box of papers in the basement and I never got rid of it,
would you like it? And it contained all the secret company memos that I'd been looking for for four years. So I feel like, you know, when you look at these little intimate details, sometimes huge things come out of that.
That gave me the chills. That is so very cool.
I ended up getting an extension on the book so I could work them into the book, and I feel like it just enriched it so much. But I also have like her childhood photographs. Like one of the things I learned just through getting that box of papers was that Francis dressed as a boy when she was a little girl. So I thought was really fascinating. You know, in the nineteen tens and nineteen twenties, she dressed as
a boy and her parents called her Frank. And so I have some of these old black and white pictures in my house in frames, and my kids are like, who's this Is this a great great grandparent? You know, I'm like, no, this is Francis. I've made my family go to her grave. I mean, I'm pretty I'm in
deep with her. The other thing is that when I was writing that book, The Engagements, I did a lot of research at the Slessenger Library and Cambridge, which is this wonderful archive of American women, and they have the papers of Julia Child and Amelia Earhart and all these
fascinating historical figures we all know. And I thought a lot about Francis when I was there, because she always felt like she did not get the recognition she deserved during her career, and so it was sort of a dream of mine to eventually create an archive for Francis at the Slessenger Library, which I have done in the last couple of years. So now you can go there and all the secret company memos. If anyone wants to see them, they have to go to Francis Garrity's archive
at the Slessinger Librzing. And of course Jane in the Cliffs is an archivist at this lessons Our Library. So I knew when I went there now twelve years ago that I really would love to include it in a book, because I think they too, are sort of really hooked into that idea that the moment a woman is born will determine a lot of who she's allowed to become.
Courtney, your work reminds us of the paradoxical nature of life, like how life can be sometimes ephemeral and also everlasting at the same time as you explore the linkages and connections between the women that are in your stories. So what do you want readers to know about how to make the most of their moment?
I just think so much of it is about constantly returning to like what a little speck we are, you know, each of us is, and in the long story of the planet and our species and all of that, you know, we can get so hung up and so stressed out by the smallest things, myself very much included. I'm not as enlightened as I would like to be, but I mean, it's so funny, one of my favorite things to do,
and it's kind of started. I started writing this book almost exactly four years ago, and it was I don't know if you remember what was going on in the summer of twenty twenty, but we were all kind of cooped up and at the time my kids were really little. My daughter was like eighteen months old and my son wasn't even three, and it was just completely bananas. You couldn't take kids anywhere, and we were living near Albany,
New York. So the two places that we could go and just kind of like let them run free that were close to where we lived were the cemetery and the Shaker Village, which then of course made its way into this book too. And I love going to cemeteries because they just put in perspective. I feel like you walk your cemetery, at least I do. I always end up feeling full of hope and full of kind of like, Okay, my problems aren't that bad because I'm here, I still have,
you know, time to go. The other day, I was having a terrible day and my husband's like, do you need to go to a cemetery? And I was like, you really get me.
Yes, we always say touch grass here on the bright side, but maybe we should be saying touch graves.
Maybe that's touch grass in a cemetery. Honestly, yeah, yeah, very great?
Is it that it's like you are?
It reminds you of like what to do with that dash between the dates?
Yes, And it's crazy because you see you think, oh my gosh, this person only had you know, whatever it was twenty two years or sixty five years, no matter what the number of years. It usually doesn't feel long enough.
We have to take another short break, but we'll be back in just a minute.
Don't go anywhere. We're back with author j. Courtney Sullivan.
Well, every month we invite our Reese's Book Club authors to share a passage from their novels. So will you share with us? Can you set up this scene for us?
Would love to so bringing us back to the sort of idea that this novel started with a house. Maybe ten or twelve summers ago. Now, my husband and I and our two friends were driving around in southern Maine and we came upon this abandoned house. It was just so mysterious. It was beautiful. It was perched on a cliff on the ocean and fully furnished down to paintings
on the walls and rugs on the floors. And like every kid who ever read Ralstein or Pardi Boys or Nancy Drew or even just watch Scooby Doo is like, what happened here? I need more information? And so we kept going back every summer. We were fascinated, why is this house abandoned? And you know who lived here? And where did they go? And why did they leave? And
why did they leave in such a hurry. After a few years, we arrived once and the house was gone, and in its place was the foundation of this massive mic mansion. And the house that was built in its place, to my mind, was pretty soulless. So in the cliffs Jane, who has always loved her whole life this old, abandoned house. The summer that she moves home, she comes to find that it's been renovated. It's been made into just kind of an open concept, all white, boring thing by this woman, Genevieve.
In this passage, Jane is at Genevieve's house for the first time, so it's the first time she's been at the house in its new incarnation. On their way outside, Jane excused herself to use the new bathroom on the first floor, the powder room, Genevieve called it. She didn't actually need the bathroom, she just wanted a moment to herself. The space was small and windows with ridiculous wallpaper, black with a pattern of hot pink flamingos that made her
dizzy to look at. Jane supposed it must be fashionable, or else Genevieve wouldn't have chosen it. But to her it fell off. Two pages from Main Coast magazine hung on the wall, matted side by side in a gilded frame. It took her a minute to comprehend why the cover shot was familiar. She was looking at a picture of the house. She was standing in that open kitchen, all that white history meets modernity when an eighteen forty six
beach house gets a makeover. Jane read the opposite page, which contained a lot of quotes from Genevieve and her decorator about the many lengths to which they had gone to honor the house's legacy. Perplexing, she thought, given that they hadn't really There was a sidebar about Genevieve's purchase of a Native American basket, presumed to have been made in the middle of the nineteenth century right here in southern Maine. Missus Richards bought the treasured Abenaki basket from
an au adapt whit based antique stealer. I saw it and fell in love. It was so beautiful. I had to have it, she recalled. Jane thought of the baskets she had seen at the exhibit in Portland a few days earlier, created by people who each came from a long line of basket makers intent on preserving their traditions. This house, as designed by Genevieve didn't feel like a satisfying final destination for such a creation. She understood completely
now why Genevieve irked Allison so much. Even so, Jane couldn't quite believe she was here in this place she had once known so intimately, not trespassing on to some stranger's land now, but invited in going up the stairs without fear of falling through through them, flushing a toilet, about to enjoy some nibbles on the patio, as Genevieve had said, honestly, who said nibbles? Jane took a deep breath. She opened the bathroom door and went toward the back
patio where Genevieve and Benjamin were waiting. Passing through the big open space between the white kitchen and the white family room, Jane saw the basket sitting on the coffee table. She went right up to it. The braeding had a pattern of dark blue birds around the rim. To Jane, the basket radiated story. She wondered where it had been these past two hundred years, where exactly it was made, and by whom.
I have such a clear visual When you say the basket radiated story. I love that phrase.
It feels like very metaphorical as well for the ethos of your writing. Have some listener and reader questions for you, and so let's hear what Shanna from Oklahoma had to say.
Hi.
I'm Shanna from Oklahoma. I'm a school librarian and I've been trying to take my son to all fifty states and last summer we actually went to Maine and your book helped me to go back to those places. And I love that in your book you have a quote that says it never failed to astonish Jane that an event, a local tragedy, could shape an entire generation and then be forgotten. I feel like stories like yours help these
things to not be forgotten. And I was wondering if there was an event in your life or in the world that you've noticed that you feel like isn't discussed enough and might be forgotten itself.
Oh. I love that question, Shanna. Thank you so much. And also I just want to say that school librarians are my favorite people. Our school librarian is just a total hero and he is improving the lives of kids every day. In ways big and small. So thank you for what you do and thank you for your question.
In my book Maine, my second novel, that's when I kind of started thinking about this because in Boston in the nineteen forties, there was a fire that really shaped that whole generation of people in the city of Boston. It was at the Coconut Grove nightclub, and my great grandfather was a firefighter. He reported to the scene of that fire believing that one of his daughters was inside, which she was not. There were so many, almost five hundred young people who died in that fire, and so
people in Boston talked about it, knew about it. It was passed down in my family and many other families. So I wanted to incorporate the Coconut Grove into the story of the novel main but I almost felt like is it over told? And so I sent this email to maybe like thirty people, all of them in their twenties and thirties, and all of them from the Boston area, and said, do you know about the Coconut Grove fire? And to my great surprise, I think only two people
said yes, I've heard of that. That was so astonishing to me that something that had shaped a whole generation of people in Boston, and this is just in one city, let alone the whole country or the whole world. Two generations later, it was sort of all but forgotten. And so that was probably the first time that I decided I want to uplift the stories of real people who
have been forgotten. And so in that story, in that novel, all the characters who are in the coconut grove, who die in the coconut grove or survive were all real people other than the main characters of the book.
That was one of my favorite parts of being a reporter, was just telling real people's story.
I goth me too.
Yeah, it really is. It really is. Everyone has such a rich story they just have to be uncovered. But you did bring up main character, and our next listener, Ashley, has a question about that and the state of Maine itself.
Hi, Courtney, can you talk about the state of Maine and how you have managed to make the state really a main character in your books. How has your perception of the state and your relationship with the state evolved as you've written more books using the state as a backdrop and a main character.
That's a good question, and it's so good.
Yeah. So I grew up in Massachusett. It's not far from Maine at all, about a ninety minute drive to southern Maine. And you know, every summer of my life, I've gone to Maine for some portion of time, whether it's with my parents and my sister when I was a little girl, now with my own children and my husband, between those two, with my best friend, and still with my best friend. So I feel like when I go to Maine, you know, I see all these different versions
of myself there. When I am in a gun Quit, there's like a little patch of beach that every time I walk by it, I remember being twelve years old lying there with my grandmother on that beach that we both happened to finish the novels we were reading at the same time, and so we switched. And my grandmother has been gone for so many years, but whenever I'm there, I can just like see her there. I'm sitting there
writing a story. And so I think when we have these places where we go, particularly on vacation, it's easier to access those memories because it's such a small portion of our overall lives and generally a more contemplative, laid back, you know, version of ourselves. But with this book, I really wanted to probe more deeply into the history of Maine. Now, when you cross into Maine from New Hampshire, there's a
big sign that says welcome to Maine, vacation Land. But of course that is true for those of us who are tourists in Maine, but there's a much broader, larger story to be told there. The Abbey Museum in bar Harbor, which is a museum of Wabanaki history, the indigenous people of Maine. They have on the homepage of their website,
not just vacation Land homeland. And I think a big part of this book is not just about history and what is forgotten, what isn't told, but also what are we willing to grapple with and what are we willing to receive? Because history is only as good as those of us who are currently living and are willing to learn about it and experience it and you know, evolve
from it. So I think that's kind of where I am with Maine right now, and writing this book allowed me to learn so much more about Maine and go to so many more places than I'd ever been. And I'm actually going to Maine for nine days of book tour tomorrow, and I feel like, wow, I plan that beautifully. I get to go to Maine for nine days for work in July. What could be better? I mean, look at this.
You went there as a kid growing up with your grandma, and now you get to do it and get paid for it and do what you love at the same time. So cool.
Yeah.
Well, thank you so much for sharing women's stories and for sharing your story here with us.
We appreciate your time.
Thank you so much, with such a pleasure.
Thank you so much, Courtney, Thank you.
J Courtney Sullivan is a New York Times bestselling author and the July pick for Reese's Book Club. Her latest novel, The Cliffs, is available wherever you get books.
Listen along to The Cliffs on Apple Books, Reese's Book Club's official audiobook home. Thank you to our bright Side besties Shanna and Ashley for joining our book club today. We'll be announcing the August Pick for Reese's Book Club next week, so stay tuned for your next go to read, y'all, and as always, you can send your author questions to Hello at the Brightside podcast dot com. Well that's it for today's show. Tomorrow, we've got award winning economist Emily
Oster joining us. She is talking all about the challenges of pregnancy and parenting from a data driven perspective. Plus she's answering your questions. So don't miss our conversation with this New York Times bestselling author. Thanks to our partners at Airbnb.
Listen and follow the bright Side on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
I'm Simone Boye. You can find me at Simone Voice on Instagram and TikTok.
Danielle Robe on Instagram and TikTok. That's ro Ba.
Y see you tomorrow, folks. Keep looking on the bright side.