Hey fam, Hello Sunshine.
Today on the bright Side, it's time for another edition of shelf Life. We're joined by Laura Taylor, Nami and Chatham Greenfield of Reese's Book Club's Lit Up Program, a fellowship that uplifts and supports underrepresented writers. It's Tuesday, October twenty second on Danielle Robe and.
I'm Simone Voice and this is the bright Side from Hello Sunshine, a daily show where we come together to share women's stories, laugh, learn and brighten your day. Well, Bestie is if you've ever wanted to write a book but don't know where to start, You're in the right place,
you know, Danielle. We talk a lot about the importance of storytelling and the power of putting pen to paper, but getting the resources you need as an underrepresented voice in the publishing industry can be really intimidating, and according to research by The New York Times, only eleven percent of books in twenty eighteen We're written by people of color, eighty nine percent were written by white authors, And when it comes to the content of books, representation is actually
lacking there too. Research by the Cooperative Children's Book Center from twenty nineteen shows that only eleven percent of main characters were Black or African, five percent were LATINX, three percent were disabled, and just one percent were native or First nations.
These numbers are so disappointingly low, and that's why programs like lid up are so important. Lid Up is a writer's fellowship for unpublished, diverse authors. It provides five emerging writers with a three month mentorship program with a published author in all expenses, paid retreat and marketing support from Reese's Book Club. So six fellows were selected from over eight hundred submissions this year, and one of our guests today was the very first fellow to have their book
published through the program. Chatham Greenfield is a young adult author whose debut novel, Time and Time Again, is out now and that's in large part due to the lid up program and the guidance of their mentor and New York Times bestselling author, Laura Taylor namy Well.
They're both here now to talk all about lit up, its impact, and Chatham's new book, Time and Time Again. Chatham and Laura, Welcome to the bright Side.
Thank you, Thank you for having us.
And congratulations to both of you for being recognized by Reese's Book Club.
What an honor. Thank you so much. Absolutely so.
One of the reasons that the program lit Up exists is to help bring underrepresented authors into the business side of writing. We often forget that it's not a strictly creative profession. And Laura, you're a mentor in the lit Up program. You've published multiple books, So will you take us inside of the publishing world in twenty twenty four. What are some of the key barriers to writers and particularly the underrepresented authors. What are they facing when they're trying to get published.
Oh? Yeah, they're facing gaykeepers at every turn. So first you need to find an agent, someone who believes in you and is going to kind of take you under their wing. And then that age it needs to go and just present you to this group of editors and
make you look amazing and get that manuscript ready. And so it can be hard because gosh, I think I'm not keen on all the statistics right now, but it's only like one percent, one or two percent of all querying writers right now will get an agent, and then it's like another one percent of those will sell. So it can be really challenging. And I think once you get in there and you get an agent and you get a first deal. It can be a little easier to catch momentum and to keep going, but it can
be hard to break out, to break through. And then you're also dealing with everything going inside on inside of your own mind as a creator. You're dealing with self doubt, You're dealing with imposter syndrome, You're dealing with maybe you've shared your work with a lot of people with like lots of cooks in the kitchen telling you all these
things about something you've created. So there's a lot of noise and it can be challenging just looking at peers, looking at authors that you emulate, and you see what they've done. You look at this and it's like, how can I get this little book of my heart, this thing that I've been spending one, two, three more years on, How can I get that to that level? And it can be daunting, but it does happen, for sure, and it is possible.
Chatham, did you experience any of the resistance that Laura is describing before you got into the lit up program? What was your perception of the industry and the barriers that exist.
Yeah, I mean, so the biggest thing for me was just that I didn't even know where to start. The litt Up fellows, we all have a range of experience. Some people were trying to get published before and being told no by gatekeepers. I hadn't yet sent my book out to agents because I didn't even know how to do that. I didn't know that anybody could send their book out to an agent. I didn't know how to
get my manuscript ready enough. And that was how lit Up really helped me, because, like you said, you know, it's not just the creative side. We all wish it was, but it is at the end of the day of business. And I had just graduated college where I had really when all my classes they'd really focused on how do you write the best book possible, but not then how do you get that book into the world. Which I do think it's fundamental to get your writing to a
solid place before you start thinking about publishing. So I don't have regrets about that, but it was definitely really important for me to just learn even the fundamentals of how do you publish your manuscript, how do you find agents, how does it work setting it out to editors. It's really helpful to have a mentor to help guide you through the process, because it can feel very daunting when you're.
On the outside.
Well having been through the process, I'm curious what you think authors should keep in mind in terms of positioning their work for publishers, and I'll give a little context. I know that one of the main things that you do as an authors you write a book proposal. Then when you submit the proposal, people bid on it, publishers bid on it, and that sort of determines what your advance is. And so it is an exercise in branding in some ways. What do you think people should be keeping in mind.
Yeah, so in fiction you typically do write the whole book instead of just a proposal until you're later in your career. Book proposals are more for nonfiction, so definitely make the book as good as you can find people to swap manuscripts with if you can, or find an amazing fellowship like I did, where you get paid with
the mentor who reviews it. I think it's definitely good to think long term and think what kinds of books do I like to write and what kind of career do I want, you know, and definitely get in the practice of summarizing your book in one sentence would be my advice. You know, I've kind of got my pitch down of it's basically a ya gay disabled spin on
Groundhog Day. So that's definitely good practice because at every stage, from getting an agent, getting a publisher, and getting it to readers, you need to know what the heart of your book is and be able to summarize set in two seconds, because sometimes that's all you have.
Laura, how about you? I would say one of the best things that you can do as an author trying to position a book is to find a book community. And that can be emerging authors, it can be established authors who are available on social media on x or on Instagram, on TikTok. We're always giving tips and always
welcoming emerging writers into our space to help. And I would say befriend those people, ask questions, and then when you get some trusted people that you can get in some small DM groups with, you can ask like, what are the best agents for rom coms right now? Who's taking this? And have you heard of this agent or that company or anything. Just to vet people, just to bet experiences, because there's some scammers out there that are
trying to take advantage of new and emerging creators. As established authors, we want to make sure that emerging authors are coming into this safely and with as much knowledge and empowerment that we can give them.
Chadam, how did this even get on your radar? How did you get involved with lit up? Yeah?
I just saw a post about it on social media and when I had applied, you know, it was the first year that they were doing it. You know, I didn't see other authors who had done it, but I just saw an author or I didn't even follow that many authors at the time, but I saw like the one author I followed thankfully posted about the fellowship, and I just thought like, wow, this sounds like the perfect
opportunity for me. I had just graduated in twenty twenty is, you know, not a fun year to graduate, but I immediately had started writing time and time again, and so I had a draft completed when I found out about the program, and I was like, you know, I think my book could be a good fit for this. Let's find out you know, there was I think another thing that's great about lit up is there is no application cost,
which can be another really prohibitive aspect. Of it doesn't cost money to query agents, but sometimes with fellowships and retreats, it does cost money to apply and then to pay for the program. So having it be a free program with no application costs was kind of like, Okay, all I have to do here is invest my time and working on my manuscript, which I want to do anyways,
and filling out a few asked me questions. So I did that, and then like six months later or so, I found out I'd been accepted, and I screamed at the top of my legs.
Naturally, how do you participate in other writing workshops or retreats like this before, and if so, how is this different.
I hadn't gone to a retreat before. Now, I had done workshops. I studied writing in college, and I'd done some workshopping programs. I think what's different about lit up is that you're working one on one with a mentor. Workshops can be helpful, but they can also pinder the process because, like Laura mentioned, sometimes there's just too many
cooks with the workshops. Sometimes it's too much feedback. And I also had a lot of issues when I went to workshops with people who didn't quite understand what I was doing writing marginalized characters. So having a mentor who also writes marginalized characters and who really understood what I was to do with my book just was really helpful. And just having someone who's dedicated, because in a workshop,
you're reading ten fifteen, however many stories versus. Laura was only working with me for that cycle and was able to dedicate time to go through my manuscript twice, provide notes that I really needed and really teach me how to form a final manuscript. I'm working on my second book now and there definitely things that I learned from Laura that I still employ. So yeah, I think that one on one help is what makes Slit Up really special.
We have to take a quick break, but we'll be right back to Shelf Life with Laura Taylor, Namey and Chatham Greenfield. And we're back with Laura Taylor, Namey and Chatham Greenfield. Laura, when you begin working with someone or a mentee, I should say, where do you begin?
Is it a focus on story? Is it structure? I like to go in just straight away. I open the book, and I just love to get a solid first impression of a baseline of where this author is. Mainly, I love to start with voice because we can work on story, we can work on beats and are things in the right place, the mechanics. I can line at it you for two weeks and I'm a good line at it. I love to get in there. Are we using language
to the best of our ability. But voice is something that's very important to me, and it's important to readers. And that is just the way you present your story. It is the style, it's more than that is just how the story comes across. And I noticed when I opened Chatham's book, didn't know anything about this story other than just the brief pitch. And I read three paragraphs and I had to stop, and I'm like, who is
this person and where did they come from? Because the voice was so gorgeous and so engaging and so interesting and full of like all the things that we try to teach to help develop voice, because it can be taught, but it is harder. It's hard. It's voices something it's
so innate, and it's really like there's a talent. You can have a knack for it, and a talent in Chattham just showed me, like this is a person who is a talented author, who has the basic skills and really knows what they're doing with self expression and expression of the characters. The characters jumped off the page. It was witty, it was fun. So I was just like, oh, my goodness, this is going to be the best book. It's going to be so much fun. And it was.
And then it made it so much easier for me because then I was able to just tune and pull Chatham and pull the story threads, pull the characters, challenge them with motivations, and pay off all the things that we as authors that were trained and we do over and over again. Just using those things to pull that through Chatham's manuscript. That's kind of where I start. But I really just love to get that first impression and like to see like it's like Clay, like what am
I working with here? And I love to meet an author where they need me most. So with Chatham sounding so great and coming across is so polished already, I knew exactly what this story needed and I could focus my energy on those things, and that book sold right away. So I think we did a good job, right, Cheam, I think so? Yeah?
Okay, So That's so nice to hear because I look back and I'm like, oh my gosh, that I don't know what that book was before we revised it. But you know, it's nice to remember I did.
I did.
I think you're right. I did have some sort of you know, a natural talent and natural voice. But I think what we worked on was really what makes the story a novel, and what makes a protagonist a protagonist, you know, in figuring out what our phoebe the main characterist motivations, and what does her character look like, and really developing what was already there. Because I think what makes you so good as a mentor, Laura, and so good as an editor as you understand how to work
with what's already there. You know, you don't want to really take feedback for people if they don't understand the heart of your book and are trying to get you to write it how they would write it, and trying to get you to write it in their voice. But you, like you said, kind of met me where you were at and understood the story and just said how do we polish and develop what's already here? And in this case, I think that was really adding to and fleshing out the character arc.
Chadam, it sounds like you entered this process on really solid, strong footing. But if you had to pinpoint one significant way in which you personally transformed as a writer, what would it be.
Yeah, I think it was really to me, it felt like this whole journey has been going from being a writer to an author, Like I had never really revised a book over and over again like I did with Time time again. You know, I revised it twice with Laura and then with an agent, and then multiple times with my editor, and I had never gone through that process.
So I think the biggest thing was just learning what it takes and learning what the process looks like, and having some sort of inside information from Laura, who's someone who's you know, already been there and his steps ahead. Now that I'm working on my second book, I have a much clearer idea of what to expect out of the process and out of the publishing industry as a whole.
I think that social media has taken the mysticism of things away, like we have an inside look into so much now that we didn't before. But one of the things that is still mysterious is how to write a book. If you put a book out, people are like, how did you do that?
You know, like it still holds this mystery, you know.
Speaking of social one of the technologies that is upending the book publishing industry is TikTok and more specifically book talk.
It has over one hundred and one billion impressions.
How do you think authors can lear average social platforms to their advantage.
The thing that I want readers to know is that we are authors and we're not all social media experts. We love book talk. I'm on book talk, I'm on TikTok. You can follow me and say hi, and we try with just this goal of celebrating the things we love about our books and our friends books. That is really what I do. And so other than that, I will
be honest. Sometimes it feels like you're just screaming into the void, and that one hundred and one billion impressions just feels like this never ending lake of question marks and emptiness sometimes, and it's hard to know what to do, how to brand yourself quickly, how to celebrate, And so I've tried to let myself go with that and just celebrate the books that I have coming out the things that I've done have fun, be playful with my books and with music or pop culture references, just with my
own writing day showing things like that. But I just want readers to remember that, above all, we are authors, and the pen is our greatest gift and tool, and the computer and the phone is not always where we're strongest. So what you can do to help authors is to amplify the ones that you love best, because we are really trying to be accessible to you, to be exciting for you, to be relevant for you, to be celebratory
for you. But we're also trying to write that next book and that next book, and there are only so many work hours in the day.
So yeah, I think that's well said Laura. I like the framing of it as celebrating the book because it can sometimes be hard because you just want to be writing, and social media promotion can be fun, but it can also be time that you feel is kind of taking away from writing. I think the most valuable aspect of social media to me has been being able to connect with other authors, and like Laura said, just finding that community and amplifying each other's books rather than just shouting
about your own can make it feel less lonely. Laura and I always shouting about each other's books, and you know that's just that's really great. But yeah, I mean, I would just say, yeah, don't put the pressure on yourself to be like a video editor and an amazing creator, because if you can do social media, it's a plus, but it's not an absolute necessity, Like you don't need to be a TikTok star to get a book deal. And I think there's a big misconception that you do,
but you don't. It helps, of course, I think that the way that I look at posting on social media is just about using it as a way to connect with my readership and carry them through books, rather than thinking of it as I'm going to go viral and I'm going to be the next big book on book talk, because really we have no control over that. A lot of times it's the readers who push that rather than us.
So I like to think of it as I post consistently on social media and I have the same handle across all platforms because I want people who like my books to be able to come to those spaces for updates and for connection.
It's time for another quick break we'll be right back with Laura Taylor, Nami and Chadam Greenfield, and we're back. I'd love to dive into your writing and genre a bit, because you both have written why novels and have a special connection to coming of age stories and Chatham, you said something interesting earlier, which was that lid Up really taught you how to distinguish what makes a novel and
novel and what makes a protagonist a protagonist. So what is the secret to writing a voicey coming of age story?
I think it's about figuring out the voice of your character rather than just seeing it as your voice is an author, because you want to write distinct protagonists in each book, So it's about figuring out who is this person and kind of seeing them as a person. There's someone you're creating, but they are still a person, and figuring out what they want, you know. I mean I had when I was submitted time and time again to
lit Up, I had phoebe the main character. Her core motivation was I want to get out of this time loop. You know, She's stuck in a timeloob the same days, repeating over and over again, and she's like, I want to get it out of this time loop, because who wouldn't. Then when lit up and Laura came in, you know, Laura kind of said to me, you know, I think Phoebe needs to have her own motivation on top of the time loop. Why is she so desperate to reach tomorrow?
What is it about tomorrow that she can't have today? And that was such a lightful moment to me of like, oh yeah, I really need to figure out what is it that she wants. So I think the first step for writing a voice Waite novel is to just figure out whose voice it is.
That's good, Laura, as the chef you know of the secret sauce here, would you share your perspective too, or if it's the same answer as Chatham, then that's okay.
Chadam nailed it. I can just to add if you feel that as an author, there are a lot of young young adult novels out there. If you look at the shelves at Barnes and know you're gonna see tons, and how can you stand out? I would say, try to pick something that manners universally to teens and to those who have been teens and still remember their teenage years.
What are those universal struggles, those milestones, those things that keep teens up all night talking to their friends or texting about them, because they matter at that time, so crucially, what are those things? And then I would challenge you to find what is not quite as universal about you as an author, expressing that what makes you special? What take can you find? What angle, what little plot zinger?
What fresh thing can you bring to something that we already know to make it really exciting?
Laura, this sounds like book therapy. You're asking such thoughtful questions. Well, that's what we do of our books.
Like when I sit down to write a new book, it's like putting myself through therapy and putting the characters in there with me. We all get on the couch and we say, who have we been before today? And what have those days done to us? How have they made us? What's past his prolog? I did not say that Shakespeare did what's past his prolog? So what have
we all seen, done, felt, hurt, loved and lived? That has then created the peer's the person we are on day one of that book, on page one of that book, and taking all that and infusing it through a story that's really exciting, can make a novel that's fun and resonant and relevant.
So Chatham, earlier, you mentioned that you pitched this book as a queer, disabled spin on groundhog Day, and I know that you've brought your own personal health journey into this too. Why groundhog Day, I'm curious if that's nostalgic for you, and why this storytelling device?
Yeah, absolutely, so I do love groundhog Day.
Who doesn't.
It's a crazy too, But it was more so inspired by just my sort of realization that when you have health issues, it can often feel like you're living the same day over and over again. You wake up in your pain, you go to a doctor's appointment, you're on more pain. People don't believe your pain, and it can
often be very repetitive. And so I wanted to play on that, by that feeling of living the same day over and over again, by having a character who is chronicle ill and is living literally the same day over and over again, and having health issues can often feel like a very isolating experience. So that's why I decided to make Phoebe's love interest, Jess be disabled as well. So Phoebe is stuck with someone who really on an
inherent level, understands her and what she's going through. Even though they have different disabilities, there's still this level of camaraderie there. So Yeah, the timeloop device was really less of an homage to Groundhog Day, as much as we all love it, and more sort of a way to represent what it's like to live your life with chronic pain.
Chatham, you come from a Jewish family, and there's this really special part in the book that talks about but share it.
Will you share what.
It personally means to you and why it plays such a special role in your story?
Yeah?
I love this question because I actually haven't talked about this in interviews before, but this was something that was sort of inspired by my own life, something that I always say, you know, there's always this question with books of how much of it is your life?
Is it?
And people tend to assume, oh, it's all like a memoir and that's fictionalized, and it's like no, So I always say I sprinkle aspects of my life in my books, like Confetti, like I am not Phoebe and Phoebe is not me, but we do share experiences and there are details of my life that I add in that I feel sort of grounded in reality, and one of those is that concept of beshirt. So basically, my parents grew up together, they went to high school together, but they
didn't like date in high school at all. My mom actually hated my dad. She would write in the front of her books that she hated him because their last names were close to each other alphabetically. So they were always paired together for projects. It's like a real life rom come. So they were always paired together for projects. And she was a very serious student and he would like to goof off, so she was always annoyed by him, but they were still kind of friends, and then they
went their separate ways. They went to college, and years later they reconnected and now they've been married for over thirty years. So something my bubby would always say is, oh, it's it's fishirt. They're faded for each other, and it's love at second site. And I've just always loved that concept of love at second site rather than love at first sight.
You know, love at.
First sight is a classic, but I loved this idea of having these characters who come together and come apart at different times in their life. They meet first when they're seven years old, and then again at the beginning of high school, and then they kind of come into the time look with all this baggage around each other that they have to work through, and it's just sort of a beautiful idea of meeting at different points in your life until.
The time is right. It's beautiful.
All right, We are going to step into Phoebe and Jess's shoes for a moment because I have a silly question for us. If we had a day like Phoebe and Jess from time and time again, where we could live without consequences, how would we all spend.
It without consequences?
This is a tough question. I'm definitely doing something illegal.
Really wait, no, concept not demure of you.
It's not mindful, not very cute.
I'm like riding a motorcycle through the desert. I'm running around naked somewhere.
This is really funny because we just got done having a conversation about how her Jewish parents don't approve of her being on a motorcycle. So clearly there's some unearthed trauma here A thousand percent.
Yeah, there is no consequences, you know. There you go, How about you, guys? This is not about me? I would just go to Paris every day. Oh my gosh. Yes, I would just get on and I fly like the business class, because I mean, it's not my money, it's going to come back to my account right to like the really nice business class and go to Paris sick every day and ecroissants and shopping and like hang out in the sun river and then just come home. And they keep doing that. Yeah.
I was going to say the same thing because I think part of no consequences that people don't think about that I talk about in the book is that your bank account will replenish the next day. So it's like, you know, yeah, I would just kind of think, like, you know, what can I do for the most amount of money yet fly first class around the world. Hopefully I'm stuck. On the day that Taylor Swift is performing, I will be front row.
I will we be together. We're definitely going to see some live music.
I want to be in Chatham's Loop. I'm going to be a jazz hop into your move and do that.
I was going to say, come bring the car and okay, you know, crash crash lightly into me.
We'll go see.
Joe's with Simone you're not off the hook. What's your answer?
Probably the day that my kids were born. That's the day that I want to be stuck in. Just that feeling when they place your baby on your chest for the first time. It's magical, euphoric. Even, Yeah, I'm surprised you're not having twelve children. How much you love giving birth?
I love giving birth.
I might have one more.
We'll see. Well, I'm going to take a left turn.
Laura.
Your book is titled A Cuban Girl's Guide to Tea and Tomorrow and it is being adapted for film, which is really huge. Congratulations. How much control or input do you have as an author when your book is adapted to film, like, are you part of the casting?
How much, say, do you get zero? Yeah? Pretty much? Yeah, we don't. When you option a book, if you're Stephen King, you might get more because you know, if you're this venerable, longtime author for thirty forty years, you are gonna earn more. Say, but that wasn't me as a new author. So the same company who made my movie also did the Jenny Hans to All the Boys I'd loved before, and I love that adaptation so much. Even though it's not so
exactly like mirrors the book completely. I thought the adaptation alone, if you didn't know anything about that book and you just watch the movies, you go, oh, these are really beautiful, fun movies. So when I picked them, I went off that like, am I going to get a beautiful movie? And I absolutely did.
That sounds like a real exercise and surrender.
Yeah.
It's been a few years that we've been working on this, and I think i've it has taken me a while to do that, because when you write a book, you get to control everything until you know an editor might get in there and tune you a little bit bit. Really, it's your story. That's not always how it works in movies, because movies and books are separate entities and they are
different brands. They are different I think for viewers, I will just caution you that if you do love a book and you do see an adaptation, to put the book away and just say, are the characters that I love represented well in this particular art form, which is a different art form that the author did not necessarily have control over.
But no matter how many times you tell that to readers, they're still going to go on social media and complain about yes.
They are and it's okay, and I understand. Like I said, my movie is not out yet. As soon as it sells and goes to its home, then I will let you know. But I'm will you celebrate? Oh gosh, I feel like I've been celebrating for years because they've got an option right after the book came out, so it's been alone, which was twenty twenty so like in twenty twenty one, like right away, So it's been a long time. You know, Hollywood is very slow. You think publishing is slow.
Hollywood is very slow and something that I don't always understand and have to appeal to my team and and people. I don't have all the answers for that celebrating. I think I'll just I would love to be if there's a premiere, I want to do that, you know, and hang out with everyone, and I just want to be with my friends and family, the people I love who supporting me when I was writing this book.
So cool, I mean, what a what a surreal moment to see so.
Surreal. It was very emotional, yeah, very lots of different emotions.
I'm so happy to see how happy you are with how it came in. Yeah, like that's that's really huge, and that just makes me really happy for you as a creative and an author. Well, thanks for coming on our show, guys. Thank you so much. Thanks for coming on the bright Side.
Thank you so much, Thank you, thanks for having us.
Laura Taylor Namy is the author of A Cuban Girl's Guide to Tea and Tomorrow.
You can find it wherever you get your books.
Chatham Greenfield is a fellow of the lit Up program from Reese's Book Club and the author of Time and Time Again, available wherever you get your books.
That's it for today's show.
Tomorrow, It's well on this Wednesday, we're joined by Board certified psychiatrist doctor Sasha hamdani Our adhd Awareness Month. Join the conversation using hashtag the bright Side and connect with us on social media at Hello Sunshine on Instagram and at the bright Side Pod on TikTok Oh, and feel free to tag us at Simone Voice and at Danielle Robe.
Listen and follow the bright Side on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
See you tomorrow, folks. Keep looking on the bright side.