How to Have Healthy Conflict in Our Friendships with Danielle Bayard Jackson

Hello Sunshine.

Hey fam Today on the bright Side, we're back with another edition of Asking for a Friend. Friendship coach Danielle Buyer Jackson is here to talk all about healthy conflict and friendships. Plus she answers some of your questions. It's Thursday, May second. I'm Simone Boyce, I'm.

Danielle robe and this is the bright Side from Hello Sunshine. Okay, speaking of friends, I need to defriend you. Why I can't take any more of these health food experiments.

I can't not you too, Okay for anyone who doesn't know, I have this thing where I try to recreate these healthy food recipes that I see on like Pinterest. I try to recreate them at home, and they've been a little bit out of control lately. Like I tried making a empanada, which is a a street that has meat inside, but I made the crust with plantain, served it to my husband. He hated. He thought it was terrible.

Your kids taste test any of this, Yeah.

They don't like any of it either. I'm the only one who eats it. And then I tried to chicken crust, pizza chicken crust.

Yes, this is what you sent me A photo of this is where I felt ill.

So the crust is made from chicken, egg and parmesan cheese.

My mom is gonna love this.

It's like a high protein pizza crust that doesn't taste anything like pizza crust.

Well, I know you're on your workout thirty day plans, So is this why you made this so you can just be eating protein?

Yes, I'm a little protein crazed at the moment.

What does Michael do when you feed in these for dinner and then he can't eat it?

Bless his heart. He's so kind. He's such a kind man. He tries to be really polite. Like the other day when I was like, Hey, I'm gonna try making those empanadas again. I'm really going to try to perfect the recipe tonight. This is my second try at it. He was like, oh, cool, do you mind just like leaving me some of the meat on the side, Like I really love the meat filling that you made. And I was like, you can just say you hate it, and he's like, okay, well yeah it wasn't my favorite.

Oh my god.

There's this great book called Nonviolent Communication. Yes, I feel like Michael is practiced at that because I would have been like, uh, I'm.

Going to order Chinese food, but I'm good, thank you.

He's an envyck. He's a non violent communication king. Oh wait, can we call out your on hinge behavior?

Though?

Why what did I do?

In my Instagram dns? This morning, Danielle sends me a video of a woman sewing an air tag inside her husband's shoe, and Danielle's like, yeah, that's something I would do.

I can't end up having. Okay, first of all, it is something I would do. Maybe I don't know. I don't trust men. I had this really bad boyfriend five years ago. I used to be securely attached, like I believed everybody. I was this nice Midwest girl from Chicago who came to LA and took everybody at face value. And then I dated this guy that was so brutal, Like I hate that. I don't trust people because of him.

Oh my gosh. Well, if you're trying to date Danielle to the two percent of our audience that is mail, just make sure you have like an air tag detector or something at home so that you cannot check those shoes.

Yeah, or just like overly text me and tell me where you are. Maybe I need to share a location. That gets crazy. Actually, I don't know. It's tough with the sharing. My parents have my location, my friends, and my friends share their location with other friends. My friend's like, yeah, I have twenty friends on here. I'm just tracking them all. Oh, so and so is going to the store. And I'm like, what,

There's always home, be a blinking dot in the same spot. Just wouldn't move exactly.

Sometimes I get texts from my parents like why aren't you out on a Saturday night?

Are you alive?

Okay?

Well, from unhinged to undefeated, we have some good news. You want to shout out a team of girls that are making us all so proud. There's a girl's under twelve football team in the UK, which really means soccer here in the US, and they won the championship.

In the Boys League.

So badass they earned the title Invincibles because of it. But they went undefeated all season. And here's the best part. They were met with some resistance from the league bosses, who told them after winning like eighteen games that they had to play in the all girls competition. And the team's manager, Toby Green, stepped in and convinced everyone that his team of girls was skilled enough to play in the league. And then they won it all.

They got the w WE stand Toby. Toby is such an ally to the community, totally.

Toby is with us.

Toby is with us all the way. First of all, girls, you just you go, you the damn thing. I hope that Hello Sunshine makes a movie out of this. This is movie material all the way. And thirdly, can we get the girls or Toby on the show. We have to get them on the bright side. Oh yes, this is iconic.

We have to give them their flowers.

We have to. I'm just so happy for them. I hope they feel so proud of themselves. This is such a huge achievement.

Yeah.

I feel like this is going to set them up for the rest of their life too. You know, you have like defining moments as a kid, and like gosh, should be like, I can beat the boys, or I can be in this league. I can compete just like right next to the guys and do the thing the way.

They can walk into a dinner party when they're older and be like, yeah, I was on an undefeated all girls team that played in the boys league.

They're gonna have the best. Two truths are a lie?

Oh totally yeah. We love celebrating women's wins. Here on the bright side, and we have some exciting news for all of our Reese's book Club besties out there, Danielle, the may RBC pick is officially here. Let me get to announce it on the show today. Mmm mmmm So, without further ado, the may Reese's Book Club pick is drumroll please, How to End a Love Story by Yuleen Kwang. I cannot wait to crack into this one, y'all. This looks like the perfect beat read. It has fun, romantic

Oh like mister and missus Smith, it sounds like Enemies to Lovers that.

But with writers. Okay, so it's about two writers who have a shared and complicated history. One of the characters, Helen, is a best selling author, and then Grant is a screenwriter. And then somehow they both end up in the writer's room of the exact same TV show, and then of course drama ensues. If you want to find out how their love story ends and actually where it begins, you'll have to read the book along with us. Please do we want you to be part of this?

First of all, this sounds so good, but also I keep laughing because I'm like, this will never happen for me.

I work in all women's spaces.

I'm never gonna meet my enemy turned lover at work.

Yeah, you'll have to penetrate a male dominated industry. Daniel Julien Quang is also actually a screenwriter and director. She's worked on shows like the CW's I Ship It and Hulu's Dolphace. So yes, we love a multi hyphenit creative. Okay, this is hilarious fun fact about this author. She was once fired from a Hallmark movie for being too hip for Hallmark. That is a badge of honor, Queen.

Totally too hip for Hallmark. I I'm incredible.

I'm envious of that firing, like I want that on my resume.

That's also a good two truths, sir Lie.

All right, I know there are some Emily Henry fans out there. Euleen Quang is also the adapting screenwriter of Emily Henry's People We Meet on Vacation, and she's also that book.

Yeah, I haven't read it, but I mean it's such a fun read.

Juleen is also the writer director of the forthcoming Beat Read film, which makes sense because this sounds like the perfect beat reade. We had a really great conversation with Claire Lombardo, who was the author of April's RBC pick, the most fun we ever had. I got some wonderful messages from listeners about that episode. They loved hearing Claire read. So that's something that we're gonna have to do is get you Leen to read a passage from her book.

And Claire gave us the tea she really did.

Yeah, that's the best part of having we get these authors on first. Yes, they go through the rumor mill online and talk to us about it.

I know, we're so lucky. So Julien Kwang will be on The bright Side at the end of May to talk about her novel How to End a Love Story, So grab your copy now and send us your questions to Hello at the Bridside podcast dot com.

Simon and I cannot wait to read this one. But if you want to read along with us, Reese's book Club is offering a Spring gift of reading box. Obviously, How to End a Love Story is in it, and it's there alongside some really fun, handpicked goodies. We did it on boxing on Instagram if you want to see everything in there. But these are limited edition boxes for RBC fans, so we wanted to let you know about them first and you can order them at shop dot

It's so cute. It's really cute, so clever.

And then I'm a lip tint lipoil, lip gloss lip balm girl and they had Merits tinted lipoil in there, which was it was a great color.

So pretty. I have to say I love the brass bookmark. It feels like you're taking a lap of luxury if you're someone who typically dog ears your book pages like I do. I mean, I feel like I jumped several tax brackets by just using this brass bookmark. It's truly incredible and life changing.

It really is. It's thin and it's thick, and it's fabulous.

It's weighted. You slide it in there like butta, It's just the best. Oh. Also shout out to Shuga FINA's Riptide Raspberries Gummies lack of gummies.

Talk about luxury.

If you're curious about what else is inside. Danielle and I posted a video where we are unboxing the whole thing, so check it out. I'm at Simone Boys on Instagram and.

I'm at Danielle robe RBA. Y.

All right, Well up next, Danielle Bayer Jackson is here to talk through friendship problems.

But don't worry, we also got solutions for you. You don't want to miss.

This, Danielle, We are back with another edition of Asking for a Friend. Hey, if you're new to the show, Asking for a Friend is The Brightside's take on a friendship advice column, where we bring in an expert to answer our and your friendship dilemmas. Because even though we love our girls to death. Joyful relationships take work, y'all.

Yeah, they do, and it's not a bad thing. Danielle Buyer Jackson is here to tell tell us how to do the work. Danielle is a friendship coach, the host of the Friendship Forward podcast, and the author of the upcoming book Fighting for Our Friendships, which is out next week. So ahead of her book launch, Danielle is back on the show to share her friendship philosophy and show us how healthy conflict is the real key to making our

Welcome, Danielle.

I'm so glad to be back. Thank you so much for having me. Everybody's been so supportive, and I'm really excited to dig into some hot topics with you all today because it's always a good time.

They're extra spicy today because we feel like we know you no, So get ready.

This is a no holds barred interview. Now, Danielle, do you ever still struggle with friendship problems or have you reached full friendship enlightenment?

Could you imagine if I was like, oh, I totally reached full of mind.

I would believe you. I would take you at facetyl you and I would believe you. Oh no, no, no. I am a woman out in the world.

With her own complexes and ego stuff and sensitivities, and I'm out here figuring it out too. I think doing this work has made me bolder and we're courageous in friendship. But I'm still working out my stuff too, and I'm grateful to have women who are very patient with me.

Danielle. In your book, you write about how disagreements can be productive and the ways they can bring us closer together. We're used to working through conflict and family and romantic relationships, but in friendships it often feels like a deal breaker. Why is that?

I think for a lot of us, we have been raised with the anticipation of conflict in every other context. We know we're going to get into it with our boo, and we just know we're gonna have to work through it right with our family and even at work we have performance reviews, like we have these touch point moments

You write about the differences in how men and women respond to conflict and friendships. Can you say more about that?

Yeah, I know it sometimes seems like I'm generalizing here, but I report what the research has to say. And one of the differences between men and women is for men, they seem to have fewer social consequences for being perceived as quote unquote difficult. So it's nothing to call their friends out of his name, or to punch him in the face, or to be like, bro, what you did last night was not cool and not have a feel

I really want to touch on these mismatched expectations because I've personally experienced a lot of tension come up around weddings, birthdays, special occasions where there are expectations that aren't being met. What does setting expectations in friendship even look like?

Oh, that's good.

Yeah, it's tricky from the onset because friendship is the most ambiguous relationship we have. With a romantic partner, we know the predetermined life expectations, right with kids with your mother, we know how this works. But with friendship, it's like, are we ranking each other the same in closeness? Do you expect me to invite you? Or would that be clany? There's so much ambiguity, so you want to reduce the

I think you're really hitting on something here, because we all know what these expectations look like with.

Our moms, our partners, even at work.

We kind of know what these expectations look like, but I'm actually not sure I understand what they look like around friendship because they look different for me than maybe my friend.

Mm hmm. Well that's the thing. I think you hit on it, Danielle. It's Danielle. I'm gonna call you Robe for the sake of this conversation. I think you hit on it. Robe. The expectations vary from friendship to friendship, so that's where we can butt up against those feelings of resentment if those expectations aren't met.

Yeah, So I think just kind of bridging the gap during organic opportunities is really helpful. So, for example, if you have a friend who doesn't call and check in and you're like, I feel like that's basic, how do I kind of let her know that without it feeling like an accusation that that's kind of what I expect and friendships, So even saying like, hey, I really love our check ins, like it's so much fun and I wish we could do it kind of like more often.

Part of what I like about your work is you never suggest punishment, So you don't call somebody and say like, hey, I'm really bummed you're not doing X, Y and Z. You're saying, hey, I'd really like to chat more like. It's more of an ad on instead of a takeaway.

You know, it's because we want people to respond well, and at the heart of it, it is I miss you, I desire more of you. The average person doesn't really respond well to the other approach, right, somebody being like, oh, you didn't invite me. Oh, I guess you can't call me. Most people aren't responding that. So to say like, oh, man, I would have loved to join you next time you go, you know, think of me like I would love to come.

I used to be that girl who would secretly have FOMO and just never confront people about it, and I think it I think social media makes it harder because I mean, just being honest, I still experience it from time to time whenever friends get together and I don't get included or they're going on a trip. I mean, it's just right there in your face. With social media.

Oh, totally from like a sociological aspect, I'm looking around to see what are the norms. I'm trying to gauge in my own track. So sometimes we have to check ourselves, maybe especially with social media. Go outside and touch some grass, right to like recalibrate.

We say touch grass almost every episode on the right side, Like you're feeling depressed, go touch grass, you're hungry, go touch grass.

Don't do it if you're allergic to grass.

We really do believe in the touching grass method of coping here at the bright side. But that raises a really great point. How do you know when it's time to touch grass and let it slip or bring up something that's been bothering you.

Yeah, that's a great question because it's hard to know. Okay, is it in my head? Am I just being overly sensitive? The first thing I'd like to encourage people to look at is what is it costing you? Because every decision you make is costing you something. So if you've decided, Okay, I'm gonna be silent and say nothing, are you growing and resentment becoming passive aggressive? Are you withdrawing? It's going to cost you something. So how's that been working out

Do you think it's even if it's the wrong person, it's worth it. Like, I've always been of the mindset that you have to do what feels right for you, and how someone receives your apology or your words is kind of up to them.

Yeah, oh totally. I can say, you know what, I don't feel good sitting on this. I have to express myself. I have to be honest and the perfect world it's received well, but if not, it's a bummer that she didn't take it well. But I can at least be proud of myself for speaking up authentically and honestly, and again, ideally, hopefully the right people receive it well, and if not, it's nothing to regret because you're maintaining sen sence of integrity.

I have one friend that comes to mind. This is really heartbreaking, but she says she doesn't want to hang out with me because she doesn't always want to feel like the friend who doesn't have it together, Like she's tired of feeling like a friend who's struggling. And I was really really tough to hear because she's someone that I've been friends with for a really long time, and it makes me wonder am I not showing up for

I feel like it's also a reminder of just how much of our personal stuff we bring to friendships, Like, even if a friend is supportive, affirming, encouraging, I still got to work through my own blocks, mindset, sense of worthiness.

So last time you were here, you mentioned that it takes work to build an authentic connection with a friend, and you've actually developed a practice called a door to help with that. Can you talk us through what that means? Yeah?

So I like to argue that dealing with conflict should start way before you have one, right, So we should be creating an environment where people feel safe to speak up. You can be vulnerable here, and we've developed some strong things so that when we do have these with attension, it kind of acts as a buffer and absorbs some of that. And so there are practices we could be doing all of the time to keep those friendships strong.

Are you open?

Do you share? Especially for women because self disclosure is the glue of women's friendships. The R stands for liability, which includes like trust, How do I show you you can count on me? I got you, I remembered those things you said last week. I'm following up. You can count on me? And finally E stands for experiences. You need shared experiences. And it's really hard to get around the role that spending time together plays and deepening a friendship.

Desire is a word that I tend to associate with romantic relationships. Why is it important for us to feel desired in our friendships too, you.

Know, because I think feeling wanted and feeling like we belong as a basic human need. But I just think we take a lot of things for granted. And we mentioned earlier kind of at the top of the show about how friendships can be so ambiguous, so I think, if anything, they need that reassurance most so, how do I show my friends, Man, I really missed you this weekend, or we missed you at the party. You totally should have been there. It's not the same without you. These

I think resentment builds up in any relationship, especially if you let it ste for too long. What do you think about bringing up old fights?

Like?

Can you still bring up something you're resentful about years later?

Do you need to get over it?

You know, I know it's different situation a situation. I'll say two things. The first is, I do think you have to determine how much of your resentment is your stuff and how much is her stuff? Because sometimes we put our stuff on our front and it's like you need to move on, or that's things because that's a you thing. There's nothing I can do about that. But there are times when it's like, man, I never got

I love that clarity leads to peace.

Okay, I think now's a good time to take a quick little break, and when we come back, let's hear some questions from our bright side besties.

Stay with us. We're back with author and friendship coach Danielle Bayer Jackson. So we've all been talking about conflict. Let's get real about yours. We've got some real live listener questions. Our first is from Sydney in sho She says, I've had a friend I've known for a few years now. She's someone I met through work but then developed a pretty close relationship to. We're both scorpios and get along

Okay. The reason why this is so tough is because the research tells us that the number one thing women look for and their same sex friendships is emotional support. So I think, kind of, in the back of our minds, we know that if we are seen as unsupportive, it might spell the end of the friendship, because that's what women expect. But I also know that second hand stress is a very real thing and that a friend continually bringing you the same things can really physically be detrimental

Okay, next step, we have Brittany from Portland. Brittany says, I have a friend in my life who I have absolutely adored. Almost since we first met. We developed a really strong connection, almost like having an immediate chemistry with a crush. She and I would talk almost every day, even though I was usually the one reaching out to start the conversation. She's always been pretty receptive to our communication style, but it definitely does not match my own.

How should I move forward?

Yeah, that's a common one I hear is about not feeling like things are reciprocal, or the fear of being too much. I think that's deep within a lot of us, right. We don't want that confirmed. If you're suspecting that a friend might be overwhelmed by you, or disinterested or not as invested despite multiple attempts to reach out, it's totally okay to say, hey, you know, I know I've reached out the last couple of times to go to brunch and to get together, but the last thing I want

I think that love bombing exists in platonic friendships too, where things are just too strong, too fast at the beginning of a friendship, and I think that that can kind of set things off on the wrong path.

Oh, one hundred perc Like, fast friends, especially with women, is very much a thing where the chemistry is high, the flow of conversation is high, you're sharing things, you feel seen, the energy is high. I mean that is a very real thing, and you're absolutely right that it can kind of set the tone of like, oh, this is our pace, this is the norm, this is what we do. So is it possible they have a person burned out? Or is it possible that they were just kind of like in it for a moment but then

Nobody likes a thirsty friend.

Well, I actually think about it as compatibility. I think about dating as compatibility too, unless as chemistry, because like, if somebody is not feeling you, you have to just say thank you, because down the line, something else is going to pop up with them because they're feeling something that's incompatible that you're not feeling yet.

Yeah, yeah, that's so good. And yeah, a lot of it is subjective, right, because you might think, oh, gosh, she's too much and for somebody else for like, she's just right, you know. So I always say, you know, it's all subjective, but also to keep your ear open to themes and the feedback you received. But if my mother and my boyfriends and my friends have all said, hey, that's a lot at some point, I do have to say, Okay, well,

Self awareness is essential for happiness and contempting. Y'all all right? Last question for today comes from Casey from Houston. Here we go. My friend is constantly seeking out relationships. If she's not in a relationship, she's got a crush. If it's not a crush, it's like a one night stand. She's always got some romantic situation she wants to talk about, but it's usually the same issue. She's looking for this

How did your friends? What did they say to you? Well, I don't like to be overt.

I like to be more like covert.

I said, I love you so much, and I really feel like you're in so much pain, and it's more pain than I even know how to help be with. Here's the number to a therapist I've worked with in the past. I feel like she could be really helpful, and then I just stopped answering calls as much because I really didn't have bandwidth for it.

I can also relate to this. I have been the proxy therapist for friends more times than I like to count, and I'm like, listen, I am so underqualified for this right now. I need you to go outsource this because I can't help you.

You know what I love about that response, though so much, is there's like a little bit of playfulness. But I also just told you my limit. And sometimes we're so serious all the time. I think to say, like, girl, okay, I want to support you ideal, but this is like out of my scope, Like I really cannot help you. And I feel bad about it, but at this point I think talking to insert person here might be more helpful.

That's really beautiful.

The B word we all love. Danielle. You touched on a goofy girl hypothesis that I have, and that is that laughter and levity are sometimes the best tools to navigate conflict and friendship. Is there any truth to that? Like just being like, hey, let's take a step back. I know things got a little tense. Let's find the humor in this. Let's try to laugh it off and realize it's not that deep.

I think that's my personal way of handling conflict, too, is to be like, okay, girl, we this is I don't know what you met last night by what you said. Now help me out now, because I'm trying to understand, you know, like some level of playfulness, because I think sometimes we're so reluctant to even have the conversations because in our brain we picture it as the formal sit down. We're about to read off a sheet of paper all

What's the silliest disagreement you've ever had with a friend?

I don't know. I think she listens. I think she listens to the podcast, and I don't know if she thinks it was silly, okay, but I'll say that we got through it. I think we can kind of laugh now. I can laugh now. I think she's catching up. Can we get any more details?

Code names, anything, code places, code instances.

Oh, she's not putting her friend up blast.

I am an investigative journalist, Dan Yelle put some respects on my.

Way now, a friendship expert. She knows our boundaries.

I'll say this.

I'll say a recent silly one that I think got kind of tense was we were analyzing Love as Blind via text and we were going back and forth and I gave an analysis of what I thought was wrong with one of the couples, and I think she got offended by it. She like was kind of being short in the stop texting. And then we talked later and it turned out she was offended. I'm like, these people are not our life.

No, no, like that's a her problem.

So that was like a silly thing that she genuinely got offended for. But you know, it is what it is.

Did you determine that to be a her problem or did you take accountability?

I think that was her problem. I don't think I said anything wrong. I think that was my analysis of the cast members of Love Is Blind, and I think I was absolutely right, you know, and she'll see.

That one day, not Love Is Blind being a homewrecker. This is just cracking me up.

Danielle, thank you so much for coming back to the bright Side. We're just so lucky to have you. We have so much fun when you're here.

Oh, I'm so glad to be here. I mean, the conversation is so important, so think you all for facilitating a moment to chat this through.

Thank you so much, Danielle.

Danielle Buyer Jackson is a friendship coach, podcast host, and author of the upcoming book Fighting for Our Friendships, out May seventh. You can find it wherever you buy your books, especially our favorite local bookstores.

Big shout out to Sydney, Brittany and Casey for opening up and sharing your questions with us. Let us know how it all goes, and we'll be back with more asking for our friend soon. So send your friendship questions our way. Our email address is hello at the brightsidepodcast dot com. I always love whenever she comes on the show. I learned so much and I feel like we're always just brimming with questions like we can't. Yeah, we can't keep them inside.

They'll never be enough.

And we also have so many opinions. I just keep thinking, like fight, fight, fight, like. I love the idea of fighting for friendships in a healthy way because we think of conflict as harmful, but it's actually helpful.

You know what stuck out to me this time was that dynamic of her stuff versus your stuff. Like, if you just pass everything through that filter every time you're going through a conflict, it's a really great way to remain self aware.

Here's the problem.

Sometimes you think it's her stuff and it's your stuff, or vice versa.

That's why you need to be more self aware.

I think that's why you need a friendship coach.

Well, we know one. You're in luck.

That's it for today's show. Tomorrow, we're getting the Tea on the met Gala. Is it Gala or Gala? I don't know TVD, but we're getting the tea on it with Internet personality and pop culture anthropologist blakely Thornton.

Subscribe and listen to the bright Side on the iHeartRadio app or wherever else you get your podcasts. I'm Simone Boyce and you can find me on Instagram and TikTok at Simone Boye.

I'm Danielle Robe.

You can follow me on Instagram and TikTok at Danielle Robe R O B A Y.

We'll see you tomorrow