Hey Bessies, Hello Sunshine.
Today on the bright Side, comedian actor and writer Jacqueline Novak is here to talk about her Netflix comedy special It's called Get on Your Knees. Plus she shares the most Tony Robbins thing about her. It's Wednesday, May twenty second.
I'm Danielle Robe.
And I'm Simone Voice, and this is the bright Side from Hello Sunshine, Simone.
I'm so happy to have you back. You just got back from this wellness retreat.
Yes, I just got back from a retreat called on Site, and I have to say, outside of motherhood, it is the single most transformative experience of my life. I mean, pure magic with forty new friends.
I wish everyone could see you. You look so rejuvenated and rested.
This is what several days of no screens, no alcohol, clean eating, being out in the wilderness will do for you.
What do you mean no screens? You didn't touch your phone or a computer. I did not touch my phone or a computer for several days. And to be honest, I kind of feel like I'm an alien walking around on planet Earth right now. But the irony of that statement is I'm more human than I've ever been because of the deep work that I did at this camp. So I think I should explain the ground rules of on site because that really gives you a taste of
what the full experience is like. So there's no screens, there's no alcohol or drugs, there are no last names, and no discussion of what you do for a living, because they want everyone to be putting humanity before credentials. They want you to come there and really rediscover who you are outside of your job. For every day we had small group therapy, and it really is like three to six months of therapy condensed into a matter of
a few days. Is it mine body soul like do you wake up and go for a long walk, or is it fully group therapy?
It's mind body soul.
Well.
I would wake up with the birds every morning. It was so idyllic and peaceful. We would start off every morning with a meditation. We would do yoga at night, We had soundbats at night. We even had a silent disco which was super fun. And this like really cathartic release for all this hard work that we'd been doing.
But I'm not gonna like sugarcoat it at all. It was it was five days of like crying our eyes out, like everyone can only imagine weeping doing in our child work, like these miraculous transformations and breakthroughs, and then you're all experiencing it together. So the people that I went through this process with, even though I had only known them for a few days, they know me better than the friends that I've had for several years.
Oh yeah, I can only imagine.
I think sometimes we're more willing to tell strangers our deepest, darkest secrets than the people closest to us.
But that was the thing that I was most scared of, Danielle. When I went into it. I was like, so, I'm going to this retreat. It's gonna be a bunch of people from my industry. How do I know that I can trust them with like my deepest darkest secrets, vulnerabilities, my trauma. The way that they went about it, like we fostered connection and empathetic community in really small ways first, and then that facilitated opening up in a massive way.
Is there anything that you learned, any tools, any tips that you think we could all be applying in our day to day life.
I came away convicted by the power of screenless connection. So I'm coming back and like ready to have phoneless dinner parties, ready to say, like in my own home and my family, we're going to do phoneless meal time. Like starting small, but those small changes I think can lead to significant improvement and just overall quality of life.
We did one thing at the end of.
The trip that was so powerful and everyone was crying, of course, something called an affirmation circle.
Have you ever done this?
No?
Please tell me, Okay, it's this beautiful thing, and I think this is something that we could all try to do with our friends the next time we have a gathering. So you create an inner circle with a bunch of chairs. You know, however many people you have, you half that amount, and you put half the people on the inside of the circle. Everyone else is on the outside of the circle, and one by one you walk around. You gently place your hand on the person's shoulder in front of you,
and you just whisper and affirmation into their ear. And while we were doing this, there was this really moving piece of music playing. And you know, after having had the honor of like getting to really see the humanity of all these people, we felt equipped to really give them an affirmation that was meaningful and had depth, and it was just so beautiful to witness and see everyone receive that.
You are thoughtful and empowered queens.
Thank you well from one empowered queen sitting next to me to another. You know, Simone and I love a woman who charts her own path. So on today's show, we're talking to a comedian who's doing comedy a little differently. Jacqueline Novak has a Netflix special that got a ton of buzz. It's called Get on Your Knees. Here's what I think is so cool about this. She has been
working on this meticulously for over twenty years. The idea for the special actually started as a college essay, and then she turned it into an off Broadway show, and now it's come to life as this comedy special that has been widely received.
I so admire Jacqueline's bravery and ambition in redefining comedy in a way that feels authentic to her.
Like she is a writer at her core.
She studied English in college, and she really brings that grasp of language and literature and poetry to the stage in this special. It's a super unique style of comedy. I mean, I remember when I first watched it. I was fascinated by her. I was completely captivated by her. She has this frenetic energy as she moves across the stage.
Well, it really got me thinking, which is what I think she wants us all to be doing, watching and then talking about it afterwards. Because it's all about fillatio. It is about blowjobs, and at first hearing that, you think, oh, is it crude, And it's not. It's very poetic.
I have never seen anything like it, never seen a ninety four minute special talking about oral sex. And you're right, it does seem like it would be raunchy. But she's even said, like, my parents have seen the show multiple times and.
Yeah, that's not the point of it.
No, it's not raunch for the sake of raunch. There's a lot more to it.
So we are going to get into all that and more with Jacqueline No back after the break.
Stay with us.
We're back with a groundbreaking comedian who is changing the narrative around women in sex with her Netflix comedy special Get on Your Knees. It's based on her critically acclaimed one woman show of the same name.
I am going to talk about the blowjobs quite a bit tonight to the point of tedium, said one early critic.
Jacqueline Novak is an actor, writer, and stand up comic. She's also the host of the podcast Poog with Kate Berlant, which I love, and the author of the book How to Weep in Public. Feeble offerings on depression from one who knows Jacqueline, Welcome to the bright Side.
Thank you for having me. Hello, you are.
Having such a moment.
Your Netflix special Get on Your Knees is getting so much attention, Simone and I couldn't stop talking about it. And it's different than a traditional special. How do you describe it to people?
It depends on who I'm talking to and who I'm trying to sell to, you know, like I'll tell you it's anything, but to be clear, it does absolutely stand up. I also, you know, mounted it as an off Broadway show and definitely put it in a theater context. Point is it's this sort of high brow show, but the blowjob this mix of high and low. You know, it's like very poetic and I'm sort of prudish and obsessed
with dignity and all this kind of stuff. But then I'm talking about the blowjob and penis cock but from a linguistic perspective. So it's this weird combo that usually people are surprised by, sort of regardless of which expectation they came in with.
You're wearing a great T shirt and jeans in the special? Yes, and I hope you don't take this the wrong way. This is like a commment to me, you could have been in like a Victorian era dress, or you could have been in a great T shirt and jeans in twenty twenty four. That's how timeless and flowery and poetic the language is. To me, Oh my god, I love it. I should have worn that, although it would be hard to tour with.
Your comedic point of view is provocative, and you talk openly about sex and sexual situations, but it's not for shock value like you do poeticize, you unpack, you dissect even Yeah, what's the conversation that you wanted to start with the special?
You know, I don't let myself think in terms like I'm trying to start a conversation and it's too grand And I take myself seriously in one sense, but it's like if other people find it meaningful or great, I can't even partake.
In that, but like why the blowjob?
I knew that it was something I always found compelling, almost from a literary perspective or like a poetic perspective, more than I really thought of it as a sort of thing I wanted to explore my stand up because the blowjob to me, you know, it's like sometimes hard to remember the first time you hear about something, or the first time a concept. Kind of it was this thing that you know, I remember distinctly hearing about it
for the first time in middle school. It's like I sort of really do remember being like, wait what, And then in the culture of the high school it was such a charged idea. There's something that seems so foolish about it, sort of ridiculous, but it's also held up as this cool, you know sort of thing. So it's like I knew that it was one of these things
that I would enjoy analyzing. I say it in a special but you know, like to the point of tedium, I was like the blowjob just as this focal point of almost like all these other things to be discussed about, like feeling foolish, like how can you be a mind and in a body? You know, how can you be a thinker and partake any sort of ridiculous acts that are relatively wordless. The blowjob sort of silences you. If you're a talker. It's kind of you know, not your It's like, wait what, but I like words.
You point out the contradictions so well, and whether you accept it or not, you are changing the conversation. And I just want to go through some of the praise that you've received.
I'll take it. I'll take it.
Your director Natasha Leone called get on your knees, your Opus. Your former director John Early said, Jacqueline brings real stakes in gravity and poetry to the mundane. Vanity Fair said, the stage show solidified you as a comedic powerhouse. How do you feel when you hear this praise? Are you able to receive it?
Oh? My god? Well, I made a point to not read any press about it, particularly after the special was released. It's a dangerous game taking in anything that the press, even a ray of review. It's like, it's just this thing. I've decided that if I let that boost me, you know, my interior state is going to be affected by that, and so then shall there be a negative press? Right?
I guess I'm trying to almost not be lifted by the positive quotes, because if I cling too much of them, then similarly might I cling to some devastating statement one day that really bumps me out. But you know, when you very safely to my emotions, just give me this little wonderful compact. I'm like, oh, I like that.
I like it.
That's you should.
I want to touch on something that Simone said, which was poetry to the mundane, because to me, that exemplifies your work so well. I've heard you say that the only way to tolerate our mundane existence is essentially to make it a big deal. So you are on a quest to make everything fun and exciting and a big deal, even mundane things like eating dinner or giving a blowjob. Why are you injecting excitement into everything right right?
I think it's an emotional survival mechanism. I think I figured out for myself pretty early, I guess a teenager. When I started writing something about putting a lens on anything like the slight at a distance that you do when you're poeticizing something or writing a joke about it, or writing about it at all. It made it like suddenly the entire world has potential for you know, beauty, or it does something for me in a very core way of just relating to the world.
You know.
It's like I remember around that time, someone's saying to me, like, why can't you just be in the moment? Why you gotta like make a film about it? And I was like, it's a way for me of getting into the moment.
Well, you can tell you're highly observant, and also you are a very thorough preparer. I was held in such suspense when I was reading about your preparation Forget on your Knees.
I mean, it's so incredibly thorough.
So four years perfecting it on a sold out theatrical tour, five months fine tuning it in post production down to the closed captions, making sure that those were all accurate. I mean, I don't think there are many other comedians out there who can call themselves this committed, I mean, and so detail oriented. Why did you feel like the stakes were so high with this special in particular?
I think because it's like twenty years in the making, and so because it was this big swing, like pretty ambitious in the scope, and I'm going to talk to it for ninety four minutes and I'm going to roll around on the floor and get very sort of Shakespearean and all that kind of stuff, but also be very crasp I just felt like this, this is a real
laying it all out there kind of moment. And so I think the anxiety of that just naturally leads to obsessing about details because you don't really know what else to do with that anticipatory energy. Yeah, I think there's something to the first of anything right that you do, Like there's no turning back from this because it's such a big, relatively public swing.
You know.
Well, I read that taking a big swing like this was actually a departure from your career strategy before. This was an epiphany that you apparently had around like twenty seventeen, deciding that the key to your success wasn't necessarily stacking up this cumulative luck of like small successes, small opportunities. Yeah, but you instead pivoted to creating your own luck with this big swing.
Can you talk about that a lot little bit more totally?
It is huge, Like it was huge for me, and it felt like it felt like an epiphany, And so at that moment it became really clear. It was like Okay, I want to have an especial on Netflix. But not just that I want to have a special. I want to have something on there that I know the people who are meant to be my fans will become my fans, like almost like I want to put something out there that gets my people. You know, I don't expect to
get everyone. It's just so simple. But it's like, how am I going to get it on there?
Yeah?
How do you determine what's undeniably good?
Yeah?
No, it's a very good question.
You know what I mean. Like I've heard entrepreneurs I interview talk about having like their own board of directors almost that they check in with.
Is that what you had?
I mean I definitely had wonderful people around me, for sure. But I think for me it was like I know, when I have completed something or I'm excited about something, I'm like, this is pretty good, you know. So it was more of an internal just feeling. There was a core kind of feeling of me doing me. You know, like what if I go into myself and go like, okay, what would be like crazy? Like you know, like what would be scary? But if I pulled it off? What
don't I know that I could pull off? But if I pulled it off, it would be cool mm hmm. Because I read this in the artist's way like a week before starting stand up in college, it was literally like an exercise what would you do if you knew you couldn't fail? And that sounds simple, but if you actually go, wait, if I knew I couldn't fail, you might think of something that you just have not allowed yourself to think of before because you just are so sure that you would fail at it that you've never
even considered it. That was kind of how I started doing stand up. The thing I'm saying now is a little different.
You know.
If I go, okay, well, what if I did a stand up show like whatever about the blowjob, but it were totally derangedly literary, I'm like, that would be really cool to me if I could pull it off, that'd be kind of thing. If I saw someone else do it, I'd be like, Oh, I wish I did that.
I loved when I read that.
Natasha Leone said, it's very cool when people make their work very seriously, especially.
In the business of jokes.
M yeah, yeah, And I'm thinking to myself all the comedians I know actually take their work very seriously.
Yeah, you seem to.
Have taken it to a whole new level. I just think stand ups such a huge sacrifice. You're giving your nights, your weekends, your time, your love, sometimes you give up relationships. I mean, the list goes on. What do you think stand up has given you?
You know, I do love to perform, and that feeling and the kind of vulnerability of that sort of leaving it all on the stage kind of thing. There's something about that that I really enjoy. And then there's this other thing that I value, which is my writer identity or whatever, which is just you know, something in my interior and connecting with other people in their interiors. Right.
It's like that's what writing has to do with for me, right, And so a stand up is just this really embodied, live version of that.
Do you think that the time that it took to find and workshop this special how did that grow your confidence?
It's funny. I mean going out and just sharing this show that was this risk for me, and this really laying it on the line of kind of who I am and having a lot of people, you know, respond really well in a three hundred seat theater in Minneapolis or whatever. Right, I mean that alone, the basic simple fact of that that massively grows my confidence, that makes me go I'm on the right path for me. You know, my boyfriend Chris Laker, he's a comedian, and we talked
about this a lot. But it's like, you know, trying to keep your eyes on your own paper, this idea of like no one can beat you to you. So I think for me, just having this pleasure of doing the show and touring it and the whole thing was like this feedback mechanism, you know, this positive feedback mechanism, almost like I was training myself to lock in the fact that me being the most me is correct.
Yeah, that's beautiful.
You know.
In addition to being a performer, you're an author. Your book, How to Weep in Public is all about dealing with depression. And I really like what you said to describe part of the book. You said, it's about how to summon the strength to shed that bathrobe and face the world.
It was so just perfect imagery. I thought.
You know, I've dealt with mental health challenges myself. It's been in my family too, and humor has always gotten me through. How did humor get you through your time of depression?
Well, I think of it like it's not the cure, but it certainly is like cigarettes in the trenches, like from a fellow soldier, Like it's like, you know, if you're able to access it, it's very much like I find like a kind of here in the moment dealing with whatever you're dealing with, or a little bit of a an ointment or a little bit of a release valve or a little bit of a you know, there can be a weird fear if you're dealing with mental illness that if for a moment, you transcend your own
mental illnesses, you know, worse symptoms, that somehow it's evidence that you don't really suffer. You know, I'm putting that in quotes, like there's a fear of almost a suspension of the depression because you're like, wait, am I not really clinically depressed? Then if I just laughed with my friend or something like that. You know, but no, take whatever you can get, you know, don't be ashamed to be like cackling on the mental health ward. I guess that's what I'm saying.
Yes, I went through a phase where I was acutely depressed, and I could only watch comedies. I could not turn on a sad movie like I really had to laugh.
That's fabulous. I could only watch like serial killer thrillers in this acute period, the gruesome sort of like terror just really brought me into my body and got me out of my mind.
And so it was like, yeah, treatment looks different for everyone, folks, It's okay, we all have her oh different genres.
Yeah, exactly.
You're such an imaginative thinker, so it's not surprising to me that you would find mind this unique entry point into a conversation about mental health. And I thought it was so interesting that you grew up listening to Tony Robbin's tapes with your dad.
What's the most Tony Robbins thing about you?
Oh my god, I mean my indomitable spirit. Well, one thing I always appreciated about about him was that he actually talks about, you know, being hideously depressed. You know, he talks about being at this low point. And I love I love when people talk about I just love it. I Mean, the thing I would say that moved me about Tony is like on these audio tapes that my dad's friend had given my dad around, like him starting his own business. Tony would like grow hoarse with enthusiasm,
and there's something about that that just moved me. And it's very like thematic to my show. I love overreaching. I love when effort is bigger than the container. So I think the passion Tony's like, and remember live with passion, and then like this music comes on, like do do Do Do Do, and it's like it's part of me.
I read Awaken the Giant Within, which is one of Tony's books, and it actually really shifted my perspective on things.
I like him a lot.
Awaken the Giant of Inn was like the core text for me.
Yeah, for sure, we have to take a quick break, but we'll be right back with comedian Jacqueline Novac. We're back with Jacqueline Novac, and I am so excited for this part of the conversation because Jacqueline, I am such a Poog fan. So for people who aren't as obsessed with your podcast as I am, you co host Poog with your best friend who's also a comedian, Kate Berlant, and you try out, or you investigate every wellness trend so that we all don't have.
To and it is hilarious.
But you're also genuinely a wellness girally, So we're gonna get your opinions on some of these trends. What's worth the hype and what can we skip?
Oh my god? Okay, wait, it's so hard for me to come up with one that is skip overable because I'm like, wait, everything, come on, is on the table.
Have you done the thing where you like tint your eyebrows?
Microblading?
Oh?
Okay, this stuff I can get into. Okay, I have not. I do fear a certain kind of browl elimination.
Yes, me too.
I think it's gonna be weird in a few years. Like I think, I mean, there are different versions of it for me, Like, yes, I want my eyebrows to just be I just would love to control them, but I think it's a risk for me.
This is Simon and I are really.
Into doing things that we consider like maybe a little high maintenance so that we can be low maintenance people.
Okay, that's amazing. So you mean, like if you do the work to go get the brow done, then you don't have to touch your brow every day exactly.
So like I have laser hair removal because I shudder at the thought of shaving every single day.
Totally okay, genius, I'm too lazy to make an appointment. That's my problem. I'm too lazy to make an appointment. Like I want to dry brush, but I can't seem to make it happen. Do you know what I'm saying.
It's the deal with dry brushing, you guys, I don't know that I buy it.
Well, first of all, when and where because it is exfoliating. So it's like, am I standing there if you're supposed to do it dry, you're kind of like dryly exfoliating it like standing in the bathroom, Like I don't know, Like it's just like.
It sounds very abrasive to me. I just why can't I take a loofa into the shower and just do that? Why does it have to be dry?
Well, that's why I'm suckered more right now by using the Plaine myths for like the lymphatic Yeah, drain is okay. I am completely like, Oh it's real, and I'm pumping the terminy okay, the area above the colinderbone that's supposed to be like we're all drains out. Oh, I'm totally into it. I'm pumping that and I'm pumping the underarms, yeah, like in the morning, and then sort of massaging the chest. I am buying fully into like face massage, cheek exercises.
Wait, you talked about this on poog. There's a eyebrow massage thing that you were doing.
Can you Oh my god, you teach a kind of demonstright.
Yeah, please demonstrate.
I saw like the Anastasia Fascia beauty I believe is this account. And after I posted my video of me doing it poorly, I saw her post a video but like correct way to do it, and I'm wrong. I was like, oh gosh, but her thing is for one. She's like, do it dry.
Okay, So I'm gonna explain for our listeners. Jacqueline is massaging the part of her face that's between her nose, like the bridge of her nose and just below the eyebrow.
And why do you do this, Jacqueline? What is the end result?
Oh?
Nos, So I'm trying. I want to try, Guosha.
I see all these videos of people's faces before and after, and I I am not a wellness girlly what well? I don't buy into hype like, I want long term results to be out before I buy in.
Okay, do you drink collagen?
No, I'm not convinced that either topical or ingesting collagen is actually creating the production. Couldron the skin.
I think it's snake oil.
Same mm hmm, okay, we all agree.
Yeah.
How about Celery juice?
Okay. I recently someone at my Tracey Anderson class was like, well, you need to do Celery juice, Like, oh, that's it, That's an every day like without a doubt. That was almost humiliated, Like what like I didn't know, Like sure, celery just but like I didn't know. I'm interested. I'm seriously considering it, but I haven't done it.
I am a full believer of Celery juice. It is transformative. If ever i'm feeling sick or a little hungover, anything, just under the weather, anything, I chug one of those big green machines. Yes, I feel amazing. I feel invigorated, I feel revitalized. I don't know what is going on there, but it works.
I haven't begun yet, but I'll let you know. I'm curious.
Okay, cold plunges truly.
This one. I am on the fence. Okay, love how it feels, I mean for a second, but then there's this kind of other perspective.
It raises your cortisol and so for people under a lot of stress, like is it good?
Yeah, Like that's interesting. You know what I do love this is just a Novak tip ice pack under the neck. This is like one of my mental health Like if you're just stressed out and you lay down with like a cool ice pack sort of under the neck slash head.
I swear it.
Freezes the thoughts.
With cold plunges actually, with any wellness trend, I think you have to follow the money.
And I don't know.
Mysteriously cold plunges are cool, but there are all these startups selling cold plunge bats now, I don't.
Know, too big to fail exactly.
Okay, Jacqueline, I want to talk to you about some exciting career news of yours. I saw in the trades that you're acting in a new movie called A Big, Bold, Beautiful Journey, directed by the South Korean director Cogonada, and your co stars are the Margarabi the Colin Farrell. I mean, it just seems like your dreams are coming true.
I love it and I want to I really want to make you know films ultimately and like being on set. Even from that perspective, I'm just so into it.
Can you tell us anything about your experience on set?
Everyone was wonderful. Coconata's a genius. You know, the actors, they're incredible. It's just I'm not used to talking with stuff that other people are like part of in that way. Yeah, I'm like, it's weird. Here's what I'll tell you. I brought like a duffel full of skincare, convinced like that I couldn't leave a single product at home.
Tell me you told Margot Robbie what to use on her face?
No, I didn't, Dare. I didn't, Dare. I basically spoke when spoken to. I was like tiptoeing around. If I'm hungry, do I ask for food?
Like?
I just felt very much like, Okay, I'm going in and I don't really know my way around this experience and being an actor on someone else's project. I just felt like genuine old school nerves.
Well, that's what I find so inspiring about your career, because usually people will be a part of other people's projects first, and then they go out and create their opus but you were like, no, I'm dropping the opus.
First, y'all. Yeah, yeah, and then I'm gonna come work on your little movie. Okay, So.
Well you know why auditions are too hard? Yeah, you know, like chasing the roles I think I'm you know, it's like another weird inversion of like we're talking about before, but almost like, yeah, it's somehow easier for me to face mounting my own ninety four minute show and performing it and whatever then like putting myself on a tape every week for years, Like I felt comfortable going into the project almost because I've established who I am and what I do a little bit like it allows me
to Yeah, just gives me a different feeling going in. Yeah,
it's interesting. But yeah, the acting thing. I's texting with my you know, caper Lant, my co host of Poog and actor comedian, and all these thoughts are crossing my mind about acting and like, you know, like things like I'm thinking back to second grade, like in Peter Pan and I had this one line and I just was obsessing about this line and we're saying in a thousand ways and like the night of the show, and I'm just like, is that going to be and she was
just like, acting is a mystery, and that just relieved me. You know, She's like, like, you are a working actress. She loves it. I always call her like a working actress or something about it. It's just like kind of old school, like they're a working actress. And she's just like, yeah, it's a mystery. And I was like, all right, it's a mystery, and then that just freed me.
Jacqueline, thank you so much for coming on the bright Side and dropping so many gems with us today.
Thank you. You guys are absolute heaven. I am thrilled to have been on.
Have me back, We would love to.
Okay, bestie's have you ever wondered how to combine finances as a couple or if you should get a prenup before marriage. We're bringing on a finance expert to answer all of your burning money questions. Send us an email or a voice note with your questions to Hello at the bright Side podcast dot com.
That's it for today's show.
Tomorrow, we're talking to the woman behind the Hello Hayes newsletter, Alexandra Hayes Robinson, and we're getting her advice about all things friendship.
This is such a good one, you don't want to miss it.
Listen and follow the bright Side on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
I'm Simone Boye.
You can find me at Simone Voice on Instagram and TikTok.
I'm Danielle Robe on Instagram and TikTok. That's r O b A. Y See you tomorrow.