Wake that ass up early in the morning.
Breakfast Club.
Yeah, it's the world more dangerous morning show to Breakfast Club, charlamagea god, just hilarious. DJ VA is out, but Lauren Leros is in and we got a special guest in the building. He's got a new book out, Who Better than You, The Art of Healthy Arrogance and Dreaming Big.
We'll pack your something.
My brother, family, what's going on.
And how you feel.
I'm feeling amazing, you know, I'm up here.
I'm up here with one of the most incredible platforms in media right now. Interesting time in media. You know, we media ebbs and flows. We're in an EBB right now. In the movie business, Charlamagne, you know, yeah, just you know, coming off the strikes, coming off of COVID, like the the movie industry never really recalibrated. So there's a lot of folks out there that are hurting right now, a lot of folks that.
Aren't working, a lot of actors out of work, writers, and so as.
A producer, you know, I'm just trying to keep people hired, trying to do what I do and create content. Most people out there, they don't realize because there's so much content out there in so many streaming services. It's like, oh, everything out there, I can see whatever I want. But actually the media companies are making a lot less. So it's an interesting time in the business man.
Who better than You is the name of the book?
What makes you decide to write this?
Yo?
You know, I have been in the movie game for almost thirty years now, and I have dealt with some of the biggest names, some of the most impressive, successful people, some of the most toxic, insecure people. And throughout that process, I have gained a set of skills that I want to share with people about how you can be successful and manifest the more full life. How you can use some of the skills that I've learned that are transferable
to any industry to navigate be it. You want to start a new endeavor, you want to overcome a challenge, you want to pivot in your life. And so I'm telling stories I've never told before, stories from dealing with you know, some of my Hollywood folks. But it's really lessons, right, It's lessons about this is how you deal with people, how you position yourself to succeed, and how you have
healthy arrogance. Now to be confused with toxic arrogance. Right, Toxic arrogant walks in a room and says, I'm better than everybody here. I'm gonna win cause you're gonna lose. Right, I'm better than you. Healthy arrogance walks in a room and says, okay, number one, I belong in this room.
Right.
The most successful people feel that they don't feel like am I supposed to be here with all these important people. Healthy arrogance feels like I'm supposed to be here. However, I also have something to add to this room. This room is better because I'm in it, and I'm gonna get other people to understand how they and I have a commonality in terms.
Of our goal.
If you can get other people to see the value in what you're going after, then you can then get them to row in the same direction as you and work towards your own goal.
That's what leadership is.
Getting other people to realize that it's not me against you. If I can get you to understand that together we both benefit from working together and accomplishing things that are my goals as well as your goals, your chance for success is increased.
You know, when I read about you talk about healthy ar against, so here your interviews about healthier against.
It feels like you're saying you just got it. It's like a sense of worthiness, it's value.
It is it is very much understanding the value to place on yourself, right, and you underste Charlotte Man because you talk about mental health a lot. We all have this drum beat in our head, right, and it can be a negative drum beat of I'm not ready, I'm not worthy, I don't have the skills, I'm not prepared. More and more you tell yourself that, the louder those
voices get. But there's a confidence muscle that you can build, that you can grow by telling yourself the exact opposite that I am worthy, right, that I am prepared.
But it's really about assigning value.
The thing I say to people that understand, from the time you are born and to the time you leave this earth, you are building your brand.
Everything you do, right. I mean, you can't make mistakes.
Everybody does, but every decision you make in everything you do is building your brand, and it is telling people what value to assign to you, whether that's somebody that is looking to invest in you, looking to date you, looking to just hang out with you. You are telling them what your value is, and you have to be healthily arrogant in the way that you force other people to recognize your value.
Yeah. So if you don't have nobody, does that mean you're not worth nothing?
Well, you know, I'm not going to say that.
You mean, like a relationship, Well, that just means that you have to be sure that you're surrounding yourself with people that understand your value. It might mean that you're worth more than people want to give you credit for talking about. It might mean you're single because other people don't recognize your value and you're not willing to compromise for it.
You had something to what dog will won't they?
The sassiness off?
God?
Is that what it is? Are you with me? Your hair back?
I was asking you a question because I like what you're talking about.
Okay, all right, well yes, absolutely so if some you know, somebody happens to be an amazing, beautiful single sister, I don't know you know the relationship status of everybody here, but let's just say present company.
Why Well, because and she said you had a sassy next, so she is she is immediately the most entertaining person that.
I want to ask you about imposter syndrome and when you when did that? Like, when did you get past that? Where did you deal with that at all? Yourself?
Absolutely deal with everybody deals with everybody. Uh gets to a point where they feel like, Yo.
Do I belong right?
Do I deserve to be in the most important spaces? And I've been very, very fortunate to be in some incredible rooms with some people that are, you know, some of the most powerful people.
From around the world.
And as I said, what I realize is that when I walk in those rooms, I cannot question if I'm supposed to be there. I need to realize what is it that I have that nobody else in this room has?
And how can I double down on that? Right?
So, black man African American film AMAIC in Hollywood, not a lot of folks at my level in the rooms that I'm in. Oftentimes it's all white people in those rooms. What I choose to do instead of saying, Okay, I'm the only black person in this room.
I know they're racist. I know they looking at me a certain way. I know they have a negative perception.
I'm walking in the room and I'm thinking, Okay, you know what, I'm bringing something that nobody else can bring. When I talk about my perspective, when I talk about my audience, when I talk about my community, nobody else can debate me on that.
I'm the only one with that lived experience.
Whatever it is in the rooms and the circles that you're in, what's the unique thing that you have? And then you triple down on that that will help with that imposter syndrome. The other thing is that you have to understand, like you don't have to be somebody that's just born with like an overabundance of confidence.
It's something that you can build, but you do have to.
Build it by putting a success with a success with a success, right Like just like a bog said, check with a check with the check, you gotta build the successes. And sometimes to do that you gotta come back and not say, Okay, my first success has to be so big, right, just accomplish something. I call it fabricating momental. I believe that sometimes we get stuck on the first wrung, the very first thing I'm trying to get started.
I don't have any money, I don't know people, don't have a network.
That's okay, right, theyn't make the first thing you're trying to do to climb the mountain, right, that's a lot. That's a momentous task. Make the first thing by the shoes hiking boost, then buy a rope, then drive by the mountain and look at it. Well, you know you've done three things, right, Get started. Do something that helps to build that confidence we all need that.
You have a chapter in the book. I think it's chapter twenty Yeah, chapter twenty one. All you need is one white guy.
Yeah, get into.
That chapter a little bit because I know you just mentioned being the only in the room and kind of dealing with that, like talk to us a bit of putting that chapter in why and kind of what your experience has been and why you titled it.
Yeah, the chapter. Sometimes all you need is one white guy.
And it's actually the irony of it is that I'm saying that what you need is an advocate.
Right, everybody does nobody.
I don't care who they are, how successful they are, nobody does it by themselves. What I'm saying is that your person may not be white, may not be a guy.
Right.
And so when I came into Hollywood, there was a white executive.
It was a white gay executive.
He used to tell me that he felt like he was trapped in the body of a black woman. I said, okay, his name is Clint Culpepper. I said, Clint, first of all, don't tell nobody else that secutive all. I can get you some therapy to unpack that. But he was somebody that was an advocate. He was He didn't play spakies, he didn't know. He didn't go to fam you or
nothing like that. But what I said was, you know, he wanted to make movies that were aimed at African American culture, and I was interested in be an African American storyteller. I made him look good to the studio and so he then in turn gave me more power and more movies. Remember that advocacy is a two way street. Oftentimes we have our hands out. I need somebody to help me. What can you do for me? The best way to get help and the best way to find
your advocate? Right your quote unquote one white guy. I don't care what it looked like. It could look like Charlotte Mann, could look like just it doesn't matter. The point is to get that one person you gotta add value to them, make them look smart, figure out what it is that they need, and then once you were able to help them, they're gonna want to continue to help you.
Right.
This guy wanted to make movies that were similar to the ones I made. I made them look smart because I was able to make them for a certain number and they overperformed in terms of their budget.
And so we made a bunch of movies together. Right.
But you gotta figure out that person that you need. You gotta find that one person. Nobody does it by themselves, and whatever that person is, figure out how you can add value to their lives.
Don't just think about what can you do for me? What can you do for me? No, that's not how the people at the top level think.
Did he get out your way? Did he let you create?
He absolutely did.
Yeah, and it became a very semiotic relationship.
It was a two way street.
Right, So he was He went out and got financing from Sony Pictures for the movie.
Some of the early like if you look at My Think like a Man's No.
Good Deeds, Obsessed Takers. Anybody remembers those movies? Those are all movies that don't pen Number.
One at the box office.
Those are movies that I made when I was at Sony Pictures, and these are movies that he financed. But our very first one he gave it was called The Gospel right, the Gospels gospel music movie. It had started yourself. It was Interest's first movie off the wire. Boris Kojo had all the gospel stars in it, from you know, Kirk Franklin, Elina Adams, Fred Hamill, everybody, and he gave me a budget to go out and do that movie
totally on my own. I did not go spend the money frivolously, and I did not go spend the money and not return it. I went out spent that money on a three million dollar movie and it made fifteen million dollars. It's not all the money in the world, but that's five times what they spent on it. So he looked good at the studio, and so they said, oh, that's great. Who is this guy that you're working with.
Clinty said, oh, yeah, that's my guy. We want to make something else, and he continued to feed me as I continue to make him look good.
Now, your book is motivational and inspirational, right, but it leans on comedy too. You love comedy. Because the interesting thing is the back the quotes you got quick quotes from Kevin.
Kerry Washing.
What made you do that?
It just quote is that I did not authorize Will Packard to use my name in this book, and he did it anyway, And that tells you all you need to know about Will Packard.
That's one hundred percent truth.
All those quotes are truth because I come with Kevin pretty hard and uh. And so he said, you know what, I don't have to like this and I don't have to laugh at it. So if you look at the quotes, I reached out on my industry friends and I said, just be honest.
Steve Harvey's quote is by my book first and then by Will. That's hilarious, you know what I'm saying. That's very much how Steve as.
But you know, for me, it is a lot of it is told through humor, it's told through comedy.
I have had an incredible career. I look back and I can't believe it's been thirty years in the game. I can't believe.
I've had the success I've had. That is because of the people listening to the show. It's because of you all. Let me come on the show. It's because of the support of the audience. But the reality is that I have been through some shit, man, and so telling it now I can look back with levity and with light. And now I'm saying, Okay, learn from what I went through.
You know what I'm saying, Learn from that moment when Kevin Hart left me on the set of Ride Alone to go shoot a stand up special and almost sunk the whole movie.
You know what I mean.
I don't want to hear you talk bad about Kevin no moore after reading chapter twenty two.
What'sh's chapter?
If all those fails open the fruits then benefits of feelings? Yes, And I don't want to give it all the way.
Yeah, but I'll just say, you got into Jamaica with an inspired passport.
I snuck into a foreign country and you called.
Shaley to fix that problem for you.
Going into a country with an expired passport felssness is criminal.
It was not the smartest thing I've ever done. It criminal.
I just started shout out to Sheila, it was you know what the point of that when you read that.
Chapter, sir, sometimes you can get away with cris No that is not the point of it, and that is not what it was. It was the fact that I was first.
It was one of my first dates with this new woman that I had met, and met this amazing woman named Heather and sneak.
Into the contr.
You know what it was.
Just we got to the counter and my passport was expired. Because with a passport, you know, it's like seven eight years or something. Right, that's good, but that's also the problem. You don't think about it. I got to that counter and they said my passport was inspired. This is my first trip out of town, and I'm trying to be impressive, and she looking.
At me like, oh, I'm with that guy.
I'm with the guy that don't even have an acting passport and don't check this stuff out and you.
Will pack it o what.
So I was like, I got to figure this out, so I do tell the story about how I snuck in. The bad thing was that I was able to get out of America and I didn't think about the fact that once I got into the country, my passport was still expired and I would have preferred to be in American jail versus a Jamaican jail. So I kind of didn't think it all the way through. But here's the point. We all have situations, right, life is hard where we have to then decide after we are in a situation
that we can't control. So once I got into Jamaica, I was there, I had the best vacation ever because at that point, you gotta go hard. So I encourage people, right, there are times when you get into a situation that you just got to say, you know what, there's nothing I can do but live my life to the fullest in this moment. Don't stress about it. Don't get anxiety about it once you're in it. Once I was in Jamaica and I snuck in, I knew I might go
to jail. I said, Yo, I'm gonna have a good ass time.
You had to go hard because her group chats. You ain't wanted to tell her friends, but.
I locked that down after she's my wife. Now that Heather, she is here with me right now, did you tell your friend? Yes, whether you were.
An accomplished I just want you to know that you can.
Oh yeah, he Heather, definitely.
Yeah.
She had to flirt with the Jamaican dude. Help was get into the country. I don't want to say yeah, no.
No, I did. I definitely.
I definitely threw my wife out there. It's not one of my proudest moments. I said, you gotta do what you gotta do.
When keV wanted to go do his stand up and go to the party, yes, we hear that it was.
Completely irresponsible to do. Not try to defend that. Man, he was irresponsible. He knew exactly what he was doing.
It the biggest movies our careers, and he overbooked himself. Come on, man, that was the biggest.
Moment of your career.
Like with the Heather you fifteen years later.
It was.
It was, and it panned out.
And one thing I would say about keV, if anything, he works too hard, right, it wasn't.
It wasn't malicious in what he did. He overbooked because he does work too hard. And that's the other thing.
The most successful people who have accomplished things that you may look and say, how do I get there? The only difference between them and you is just that they haven't stopped.
That's it.
They just keep going. They've made all kinds of mistakes, right, They've had to pivot. And I always say giving up and quitting her two different things.
Never ever ever give up.
But you can quit, right. You might be doing something the wrong way. You might need to quit. Everybody I know that's really successful has quit doing something some way and pivot it. The power of the pivot I will give.
I want to get to the audit to pivot, but first I want to ask you about the chapter that says, stay in your lane.
Yeah, just just make it wide, lean into your thing?
Yes?
How does one avoid being typecasted by leaning into their thing?
And when do you know the pivot?
Yeah? You know it.
The whole point of that chapter is about when you have something that you do really really well, because many times people are afraid of being locked into something that people will think that's all I can do. Right, But if you do that thing, and you do it really really well, do not stop.
Okay, don't stop.
The most successful people have a thing that they do and they do it well. Then they use the ability to be successful in a lane to go out and do something else. I'm only able to write this book with a major publisher because I've been very successful in a particular medium. Right now, I'm able to go and do other things. So don't worry worry about that. Oh well, I can do so much other stuff. What's the thing you do really well?
Do that?
Triple down on that, be the best person in that particular field.
And by the way, find your passion within that.
Right, too many times people are telling me, well, I'm not passionate about something. I gotta wait to find my passion and before I go out, and you know, work really hard, and I'm telling you you're building your brand from day one.
Work hard today.
I didn't have a passion to be a filmmaker, I will admit that, but I was.
I did not. That was not my dream growing up.
But I found that I was really good at knowing how to hire actors and raise money and self distribute. And then I found the passion in storytelling later. So I found the thing I was really really good at, and then I found my passion within it.
I encourage people to do that.
Don't worry about being typecast. Stay in your lane, but you can make it wide right. I'm not trying to pigeonhole you, and I'm not trying to limit what you can do, but stay in your lane. Too often we are trying to do too much, and now you can't be the person that's doing everything the best.
That is just not how humans work. What's the thing you do well?
Triple down on that so you don't pivot.
So once you've leaned into your thing and you find that thing, there's never a pivot from that thing.
It can be a pivot where you use that thing.
You use your ability, you use your brand, you use the fact that you have got credibility in a particular space, you have done the exact same thing. You use the fact that you have credibility in one lane in order to then expand your lane. Right, But it should still all be about this is the thing that I do. That's why I say stay in your lane, but make your lane wide.
Is there ever a time where like you're because I mean looking, I remember when you told the story about Kevin and with the last time you guys were here, and now I'm seeing in context of this book of like who better than you? And I feel like in that moment he had the arrogance to be like, I can do both of these. I'm going to be fine
and it's all going to work out. But things like that can kind of get pretty tricky because what if it hadn't have worked out whatever a moment where you have to tell somebody who's coming see you for this type of who better than you at vice sight? Maybe this is not it for you right now. Maybe there's someone better than you right now, but that doesn't mean later you might not be able to have that who better than you.
Eric, you have to be honest with yourself Number one. Right, we live in a world where people think either they are too great or they are too awful. Rodger Kipling has a poem called if, and my favorite stanza in that poem is if you can meet with triumph and disaster and treat those two impostors just the same. That is saying that both triumph and disaster are impostors, neither of them are real.
Right.
Too many times, because we post some on social media, everybody tell you, oh my god, you the greatest thing ever, is so good, or the opposite.
They just hate knowing you're telling you how awful you are.
Neither of that is true. You gotta stay even keeled. So the first thing you gotta do is be honest about you and your skill set. It's the only way you're gonna get better. Don't worry about external factors. You got to have a very honest conversation. One of the things I talk about in the book is how we have to make sure I'm a daily affirmation type of person. You're there encouraging yourself right, giving yourself positivity, telling yourself how you're ready, how you prepared, what you can do,
but also being very very honest with yourself. I don't care what you tell the world. Don't lot of yourself, a lot of your mom, a lot of your cousin, lot of your boyfriend, girlfriend, husband and wife. Do not lie to yourself. Be very very clear about what it is that you do.
Well. You know.
Yeah, I want to talk you about the pack of family model too. If you want to have what others, won't you have to do with others don't?
Yeah?
Yeah, you got your mom with you, Yeah her, I got moms, I got you know what.
It's something that mom instilled in me.
You know when I was growing up, Mom and dad they took me like you know, like simmling the lion king and lifting me up and said, you know, whatever.
The son touches is your son.
Like I encourage my folks with kids, do that, tell your kids, because that's when they're the most impressiable.
Tell them they can do anything.
They told me that, and so I was very audacious growing up with my family. It's me, my wife. We have four children, So that's the six pack. If you want to have what others don't, you have to be willing to do what others won't.
Period.
That is the mantra.
The mantra is that understand whatever it is that you want to do, if anybody else can do it, then it's not special. You're not gonna get it right. You're not gonna get something that's unique. You gotta be willing to do what others are not to get that thing. And I believe that the more you do hard things, the better you become at hard things. The more hard things you do, the easier hard things become. So don't run from doing hard things. Don't run from doing the
things that everybody else says it's crazy. That's the only way you're gonna get strength and to build that muscle. It's by doing those hard things. Why I say dream big because your dream has got to be so big, because they're gonna be challenges along the way. It's got to be so big that it pushes you past those challenges inevitably, because if the dream is just a mediocre dream, like man, it'd be kind of cool to do that.
Then when you run into a speed bump and that's really hard, you're gonna say, you know what, it ain't worth it.
I'm cool, right, But if the dream is so big, right, I mean.
So big for a color H four KHD, like super crazy beyond your wildless dreams big, then when you do hit that hard moment, those challenges, you know it's worth it to keep going and keep fighting because the dream is big enough.
Is Will Packer allowed to turn his own book into a movie?
Yeah?
Limited seriously, Yeah, yeah, I mean I'm Will Packer. You know what I think about doing it. I could do that.
I saw Heather in the background and that you know what Heather say in the background.
I don't know.
I just saw something.
I was given a lean like maybe no, don't do it right now or something. You know what.
I've made this book not to turn into a movie or a TV show. You never say never, because you know, one of my biggest movies is Think Like a Man. Steve Harvey will tell you he never thought of that as a movie.
Never.
He never wrote it for that. I wrote this to give the master mentorship that I didn't have. I have people coming to me a lot and saying, tell me about your success story, tell me about your failures, tell me about what you had to overcome. And so when I tell these stories, right, and I talk about you know, Beyonce turning me down five times, or or or or I yourselba, you know, almost not walking the carpet at
the first Emmy's and how you get past that? Like, when I tell these stories, I'm doing that so that other people can benefit from them.
So I could turn into a movie, That's not what I made it for.
I literally made this book so that I could influence other folks who are either on their way up, thinking about making a pivot, or living a life that they know could be a little more fulfilling.
They said, you gotta leave nine forty five venture.
Yeah, yeah, I'm sure we do because we is.
A tight schedule.
Ask you a question, why don't you have the books anymore? Will I see you screaming Atlanta Falcons all day, every day everywhere you go. I know you're a minority owner.
No, no, no, don't do it.
I know, don't you said, why don't I rep the Bucks, so you can't context it out.
Before you give me a chance to answer the question.
The time you were the only Buccaneers fan, I knew that many people I don't well because there's levels, sir, and I'm glad you brought that up.
Because there's levels, There is fandom, and I have nothing but respect for my fans.
But sir, you of all people, know that there is also a level call ownership.
And I want to show people that I don't care how high you can jump, how fast you can run.
My forty time ain't shit. I'm sure. I'm sure my.
Left hit would have something to say if I tried to get out on a track right. I can't throw a ball far to save my life. I definitely can't dunk. However, I am in a sports franchise. I am sitting in the owner's booth and in the owner's box. I want other people to see that possibility. And Arthur Blank, the majority owner of the Atlanta Falcons, gave me that opportunity.
Now in real talk, Charlotmagne, one of the things that I really want to impress upon people I talk about in the book is that you never know who's watching, and that idea of always building your brand like keep stacking the bricks. Okay, I never thought that I was gonna be an owner of a football team.
He said, you were walking around delivering newspapers.
I was literally delivering the Atlanta Journal Constitution newspaper. I was delivering them door to door. I would get up at three am every morning. I would get in rolle my papers, put them in the back of my Honda Civic, and I would go out and I had to have them on everybody's porch by six am.
I knew my route.
That's what I did right at that time. I definitely wasn't thinking one day I would be sitting in an owner's box at the Atlanta Foul because but you know what I did. I was the best damn newspaper delivery guy that the Atlanta Journal Constitution had because my name was on it. So I gave it one hundred and ten percent and so over a lifetime of always going hard, I then put myself into position when somebody in power said, you know what I'm looking to add to my ownership group.
My name came up. I made the cut life of people want to be in that position. But I made the cut because I had built a career that allowed me to do it.
When you go out and.
Work hard and build a career and a meaningful life, you never know how it's gonna manifest.
But that's why I wrapped the Falcon Sir.
I love that. But at what point did you say, you know what your booking is, it's over.
Well, I don't think you have to say f anybody, but I just have to say, rise up, and I'm rooting for the for the Falcons because that's where the opportunity can I've not seen you wrapped the books since they wanted this, brother, I am a part owner of the Atlanta Falcons.
What part of this don't you understand?
Sir?
Yes, what if he's doing it is levels? Are you trying to get the ownership revolt?
Listen, I'm happy that you have who better than you. You know what this is trying to get better than you? It's the Cowboys fan that's what that is. It went out and that coach that nobody is excited and they just Jarry Jones and as long.
As he around.
If somebody want to make me a minority owner, I'm ready to denounce them.
Too seconds. Okay, we'll pack a new book.
Who better than you to are the healthy arrogance and dreaming big out right now. Always a pleasure to see you go out there and by this book, make it the New York Times bestseller.
Massreciate you found.
I appreciate you, man thank you, thank you all for having me, Charlate mane, and thank you because you're somebody that you know.
And I told you this.
We saw each other at the Democrat National Convention and I told you I had written my first book, and I was inspired by your books and by reading your books and just seeing that process and the ground that you put in, so you never know who's watching and who you're inspiring.
Thank you, my brother, Thank you for having me.
It's the breakfast Club.
Wake that ass up in the morning.
The Breakfast Club.