We see a lot of other co -occurring mental health issues in betrayal trauma, and sometimes it takes clinicians and providers a long time to tease it out. Some of the symptoms overlap so significantly, right? Betrayal trauma and ADHD, betrayal trauma and OCD. I mean, the symptoms can be the same. Sometimes there's actually something more going on than the betrayal trauma itself. On today's podcast, we had a therapist named Elizabeth Abruzzay, and I'm just really in love with her name. You
remembered how to say it. I took notes. I made little, you know, little lines, the little squiggle, you know, whatever. So yeah, Elizabeth Abruzzay, she is a co -owner of a clinic up in Bellevue, Washington. that I met or we've connected with her through the APSATS organization. And we had a fascinating talk about an intensive that she and her partners created for betrayed women. And it was an amazing conversation and it just kind of built, it grew, it got better. The more
questions we asked, wouldn't you say? I would say, yeah, I would say for anyone who's looking for that fast forward button. This is your podcast to listen to. Oh, I love that you said that because I remember right after D -Day going, I just want to be, I want to be a month from now. I want time to move quickly. I think I make reference to it in the podcast. I don't know. We had a lot of pre and post recording conversations, but I think I made reference to the fact that
I wish I had had this so long ago. If I had had this type of resource, the things that she introduces into this podcast. I would have definitely have pursued my healing a little differently. And I just wish I would have had these intensives that she offers. For those of you that are even in the beginning, we talked about this too, whether you're in the beginning or even several years into the process, if you're in the beginning or if you feel stuck in your healing journey,
yes, yes, this is your podcast. You did make that comment, something about, oh, I wish I would have known about this. I would have done it so long ago. And here's the good news. As we practice gratitude, which in our brain science, and she does go into some amazing brain science, but anxiety and gratitude cannot coexist because they come from the same place in the brain. So
ladies, as we practice gratitude. Remember Dr. Laura's episode 15, she talks about this if you want to refresh her on it, but that the antidote to depression and anxiety is gratitude. One of the things I'm grateful for is the resources and opportunities we have available to us now, right now today, that weren't even in existence a year ago, because ladies, this intensive just
started a year ago. So we are getting more and more, I have full body chills right now, we are getting more and more resources, opportunities, intensives, trained coaches, trained therapists that are experts in this field, whereas this was an unknown territory just even 10 years ago. What's great about this also is for anybody that's in the Pacific Northwest, there isn't anything like this available until now. So if you are listening from the Pacific Northwest, know that
these in -person intensives are available. But not only do they offer that, but they've got some other things that they can offer as well if you're not in this area. And she talks a little bit about that. Yeah. And a new therapy called ETT, emotional... Transformation Therapy. And it's groundbreaking and apparently comes at trauma from a whole different direction. We had a long conversation with Elizabeth post -roll and we're
super excited about this. I kind of want to go road trip up to Bellevue and tour their clinic and meet her partners because they're onto something here. So enjoy this podcast, friends. Be encouraged that there's so much out there that's available to help us heal. Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Betrayal Recovery Transformation Podcast, where we talk about all things betrayal, all things recovery, and all things transformation. I'm your host, Kris Rocha, and I'm here with
my spiritual bestie, Jen Howey. Hey, Jen. That's funny. You said spiritual bestie, and the very first thing that popped into my head was trusty steed. But I think that's because I've been watching too many episodes of Toy Story 2 with my grandson. And Bullseye is his trusty steed. But Gertrude Busty is much better. I'll take that. I stole that from you, but I just wrote down trusty steed
for future use. Because, you know, fun fact, listeners, if you haven't picked it up yet, I'm trying to introduce Jen in a new creative way every time. It's kind of the amusement, the novelty I'm adding to the beginning of the podcast. Yes. Hi, Jen. How are you? I'm good. I'm good. What was it? Uh, spiritual bestie. Yes, absolutely. And you are my spiritual best friend. You are the woman who sharpens me. And, um, speaking of women that sharpen women are today's guests.
Um, I mean, we haven't even recorded this podcast yet, but just from, from the pre -recording that we did already, um, this is, this is going to be a fun one. We are pre -roll besties with our guests today already. I feel it. I feel the connection. Yes. Yeah. It's beautiful. Okay. Take it away, Jen. Who are we talking to today? We're talking to Elizabeth. Elizabeth, how do you say your last name? Great question. No one knows how to pronounce it. So no problem. It's Abruze. Abruze.
That sounds very fancy. Italian. Italian. I would not. Okay. Yes. I love it. All right. Here we go with Elizabeth Abruze. You got it. She's the co -founder and clinical director of the Bellevue Trauma Recovery Center. She holds an MA in clinical mental health counseling from Gonzaga University. I don't know why I said it like that. And she's honed her clinical focus on addressing relational
trauma, notably betrayal trauma. She's acquired significant expertise in the treatment of problematic sexual behaviors and sex addiction, recognizing the profound impact of these patterns on relationships. Elizabeth is one of the primary therapists for the Resilience Through Betrayal intensive programs in Bellevue, Washington, which is what she's here to talk with us about today. Welcome to the podcast, Elizabeth. We're so happy to have you. Thank you so much. I'm honored to be here.
Your podcast is such a great resource for so many of our clients. This is very exciting. What do you do in Bellevue when you're not helping women be resilient? Oh, that is a good question. I actually don't live in Bellevue. Our office is just here. So to be honest, I don't spend that much time in Bellevue. However, right across the street from our office is a beautiful park, Crossroads Park, and it has an amazing walking trail. playground and splash pads for kids. And
so it's a fun spot over here. Nice. Yeah. And you're not too far away from one of my favorite places on the planet. And that is Bellingham, Washington. Yeah, not too far. Yeah. Beautiful, beautiful country up there. Elizabeth, would you tell us a little bit about yourself just personally? How did you get into this line of work and, and what's your passion? And yeah. That's a good question. I actually kind of fell
into this work, to be honest. I know a lot of people get into working with betrayal trauma. for personal reasons, or it's part of their story. That is not the case with me. After graduate school, I was working in some community -based mental health programs. I worked in a residential adolescent program, was working in the hospital
systems. And one of my best friends from college, who's actually my roommate, called me and was like, hey, you know, the practice I'm working for is hiring, and I really think that you should come work for us. She was in her PsyD program at the time, working towards becoming a psychologist. And I was like, okay, you know, I'm not necessarily looking for a new job, but also where I was working had really high burnout. And so I was looking
for something a little bit different. And this happened to be a clinic that specialized in sex addiction, betrayal, trauma recovery. And I just got connected to them through this. She was actually my college roommate. And so that's how I kind of fell into this therapeutic setting. And I started out really working primarily with men with problematic sexual behaviors and teens. So I still do a lot of teen and family work where
there's betrayal in the family system. But over the years, I just kind of slowly started shifting my niche more towards betrayal trauma because that was the group that I was most drawn to and most enjoyed. working with, particularly, I think, because of the complex trauma. You know, my training is in trauma therapy. That's how I view things therapeutically through a trauma lens. And so that was just kind of how I fell into it. Nice.
That's beautiful. So tell us a little bit about how the Resilience Through Betrayal Intensive came to be. You and I just met, I'd mentioned earlier, it sounds intensive. And do you remember, and what was your response to that? It's intensive healing. Just reframe it a little bit. It is intensive therapy, but it's intensive healing. And there's so much relief, I think, on the other side of it. So I tried to reframe it. So it feels maybe a little less intimidating to people who
are interested in participating. It actually started just as an idea. My two business partners and colleagues and now two of my best friends who I own this practice with now, the Bellevue Trauma Recovery Center, the BTRC, is what we typically refer to the practice as. And we were
just noticing. like a missing part in the treatment that was really accessible to our clients um all three of us worked with betrayal trauma and sex addiction and so many days after um work we would just be sitting there at the end of the day like how do we how do we help these women like how do we give them more support? How do we create a structure where they can heal faster?
And intensive programs have existed for a long time, and there are some really fantastic programs generally across the country, but there really aren't any intensive therapy programs for betrayal trauma in the Pacific Northwest. And so we had so many clients who we wanted to send to intensive programs, but they were really far away. Maybe they were too long. You know, these women didn't
need 45 -day residential programs. They just needed like, you know, a few days or a week of something to jumpstart the recovery or something to get them unstuck from those stuck points of the trauma. And we didn't have anywhere to send our clients. And so that's really when we started thinking about just developing the program ourselves. You know, if it doesn't exist somewhere else and our clients need it, other people need it as well. So that's kind of how it all started.
So this isn't just a recovery program for those who are in the very beginning. You had mentioned if someone's stuck, that this might be a good resource as well. Absolutely. Absolutely. I think that it's really appropriate. Honestly, no matter where someone is at in their recovery process, it's going to be helpful. Depending on what stage you're in, you're just going to take away different messages. It can be very helpful early in recovery just because the trauma symptoms are so severe.
And so a program like this really helps with some rapid trauma integration. It's going to decrease those symptoms. But it's also really, really helpful for clients who are feeling stuck in the trauma therapy world. And I'm sure you all hear this with some of your coaching clients as well. You'll hear people say, I know this thing to be true, but I feel this thing to be true. And they contradict each other, right? It's when the brain and the body are not matching.
Our mind and emotions are not aligned. And that's what trauma therapy does, is it integrates those two things. It gets you unstuck so that you can move forward where your emotions start to match
the thoughts that you know to be true. And so it's very helpful for people who are post -disclosure or who are... maybe in a place where their husband has done some really great recovery work and they're wanting to rebuild trust, but the trauma symptoms are preventing them from being able to rebuild that connection in a way that feels good. It's helpful for women who have chosen to separate and are going through the divorce
process. And, you know, they have this whole new world and whole new life ahead of them that is very, very different than what they have experienced.
And, you know. integrating into a world post -separation or post -divorce is really challenging in and of itself and so you know working through the different traumas from the relationship that you are leaving so that you know then you can can show up in your life in a way that feels really um really consistent with your value system and who you want to be and and connect with other people in a way that you're not still holding such significant trauma with you. I'm 12 years
in. Can I come? Of course. We have clients who have been, you know, in therapy and in this recovery process for 15 to 20 years. You know, some clients that we've had, we've had multiple clients in their 70s participate in this program. Yeah, some are still married. Some have chosen to leave their relationships. It just it's it's a program
for everyone. It really is. And I think, you know, having a mix of of clients in these programs where people are at different stages is also very helpful because someone new in recovery gets to see someone who has been in it for a while. So they can they can see like, OK, it does get better. OK, there is hope here. Or, you know, there are also clients who are new in recovery who see someone else in our program who is maybe 10 years into it. and still really
struggling. And it helps them discern what they want their treatment to look like, how much time and energy and honestly finances too, because it is expensive. They want to invest early on in recovery up front. It just helps people figure out, you know, how best to take care of themselves. I love it. I remember when you and I were talking several weeks back, Elizabeth, and about what do these intensives look like? And I said, are
there croissants? You know, because I've heard about these intensives where they're super bougie and there's like gift packages that you take home. And, you know, we don't care about that. We just want to be able to breathe again. when D -Day happens or whatever stage we're in. Could you tell us, share with our listeners, what does a typical agenda look like with this intensive? Yeah, so although we are not very bougie, we are a very clinical program. There are croissants.
We do cater breakfast and lunch for everyone. That includes croissants from a French bakery we have down the street, which are very lovely. But we are a therapy program. We are a trauma therapy program. So this is not... You see a lot of betrayal trauma retreats, a lot of programs where all the women stay in a house together, and maybe there's a lot of different yoga options or group activities or things like that, which are wonderful programs. Our program is just not
that. It's very different. So it is really, really a therapy -based program. Not a retreat. I like that. Not a retreat. Yes. That's kind of how I distinguish it. It is an intensive therapy program. It is not a retreat. And so for the first three, it's a three and a half day program. The first three days, it's about eight hours of therapy each day. So it is intense. We start out with a group in the morning. That group is
more of a process group. So it's a lot of story sharing and connecting and drawing common experiences that's facilitated by our therapists here. And then each client will have a two hour trauma therapy block. So that's an individual session. It's an individual two hour session. And then another group, which is more of a psychoeducation group. So we have specific topics that we discuss. And then we end each day with what we call an alternative healing activity. So that's different
depending on. the time of year, depending on what clinicians are available in our area. This is a part of the program that we actually contract outside of our practice to do because we want to bring in other providers and get some diversity and variety. So sometimes that's a trauma -informed yoga class. Sometimes that's a sound bath. Sometimes that's a mindfulness activity or meditation.
We have one clinician that we contract with who does Gosh, I don't even necessarily know if I have the right terminology for it, but it's almost like a horticulture exercise where, you know, you're planting things and digging in the dirt. And it's cool. It ends up being kind of like a metaphor for the grief process is that specific activity. But we end the day with something very down -regulating, calming, relaxing to help that really good trauma integration and send everyone
off on their way. get a good night's sleep and come back refreshed. So there's no homework that you take back to your hotel room? No, the only homework we give is to journal. And that could be for 30 seconds. It can be very brief. It can even be done while you're still in the office. It's just an important part of like the post -trauma therapy work. It helps your brain integrate even. faster and more. It just increases the
efficacy of your trauma therapy. So even if it's just a couple of sentences, we really encourage people to journal. But outside of that, no homework at all. You're doing enough work during the day. Your homework is to rest. I'm sorry, did you already say how many days? It's three and a half days. So those first three days are that structure that I just outlined. And then the last day is a short day. You just meet with your individual therapist for an outtake session. So we really
wrap up the whole program. We provide treatment recommendations moving forward. Part of this intensive program as well is that we collaborate with outside clinicians who work with the clients coming to our intensive program. So anyone who participates in the Resilience Through Betrayal Intensive is required to be in some sort of outpatient therapy or coaching program because we don't want to send people off into the world without continued support. That does not have to be with
us. It can be with the provider that they already have. If they have not connected with a provider yet, we can offer that service ourselves. But if we have clients who do work with providers outside of our clinic, part of that process is we collaborate. before the intensive and after the intensive with those providers to make sure that we've got continuity of care. We send them with treatment recommendations, all sorts of things like that. Wow. That's amazing. Yeah.
I do love the horticultural piece. Yeah. I'll never forget my friend Jen coming over and saying, this looks like one of the best examples of self -care I've ever seen. Do you remember that, Jen? And it's amazing. It is the most amazing garden ever. Thank you. It reminds me too of that. And I have this image in front of me, but Psalm 126 verses four through six say, restore our fortunes, Lord, as streams renew the desert. Those who plant in tears will harvest with shouts of joy.
They weep as they go to plant their seed, but they sing as they return with the harvest. I love that image of planting and getting our fingers in the dirt and doing hard things and coming back with great results. Yeah, that message of resilience. Yes, absolutely. So what would you say is the first thing a client needs to experience at RTP? Probably safety. I mean, I think we were really hard to establish safety very early on.
A lot of the clients who participate in these programs don't have a lot of emotional safety, don't have safety in their home sometimes even or with their families. So we try our best to create an environment that is very warm and welcoming. And, you know, myself and the two other owners of the practice, my friends, Connie and Jessica, we spent hours even trying to figure out how are we decorating our group room? What colors do we put in this lobby? Anything we can do to
create an immediate sense of safety. When people arrive, we have a little bit of just kind of an orientation period, just 15 to 20 minutes. Grab your croissant, get a coffee or a tea. You know, here's where the restrooms are. This is the space you are going to be in. And just really making sure that everyone feels comfortable and some sense of safety before jumping into the program. Because it's terrifying, you know. Day one is just full of nerves, especially that first
group. By day three, they're best friends and on a group chat and, you know, good to go. Walking into a room like that is really difficult. And so anything that we can do to ease that, that anxiety is important. Yeah. Do you find that women form lifelong friendships through these intensives or that inner circle? Yeah. Our program is relatively new. We've only been running it for about a year. So I can't exactly speak to
a lifelong friendship. However, I imagine, you know, I do know that most of our groups have shared contact information and do remain in touch just from the clients we still have in the clinic. And it's cool because we've started to get a reputation even outside of Washington. So we do have people who fly in from other states to
participate in our program. And I think there's another element that really creates some safety for our intensive clients, and especially in keeping in touch after the program, that they don't run in the same social circles. You know, Seattle is a big city, but it's a small city and everyone knows everyone and different communities overlap. And I think that is part of the anxiety that people come into these programs with. You know, I get a lot of questions from people as
they're signing up for a program. What if I know someone? You know, do you know the names of all of the yoga teachers that are going to be coming? Because I have a friend who's a yoga teacher in your area and I'm worried that that's going to be who you hire to run this class. So there's a lot of fear there. However, we've never had anyone in our program who they show up and they do know each other. And I imagine if that did happen, it would probably be a really healing
experience. But I do know that that is some anxiety for people. So being able to connect with other women who have shared experiences that are parts of different communities, I think it's a really cool opportunity. It would be fun to have a reunion five years down the road where... these women are coming in and experiencing the post -traumatic growth, you know, and I would just, I'm excited to hear about where this goes for you guys. Yeah.
I will say the number one piece of feedback we get, we send out feedback forms at the end of every intensive where we're always changing and growing and developing. And we want to make sure that the program is, you know, catering to the needs of our clients. And we send out feedback forms and the number one piece of feedback, and we get this every single time. is we want an alumni program. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It is something that we've been talking about, thinking about
a lot. And, you know, hopefully next year won't happen as often as our typical resilience through betrayal program. But I do think that that is in that's in the cards for us. Love it. That's so great. Yeah. I've got a question, but I've got a side question first. So you and I met through the APSATS organization and you talked about establishing safety is the number one thing that women need to experience right off the bat with
this intensive. And so I'm curious because we've talked about APSATS, just sort of mentioned it, but as a clinician, as a therapist, Elizabeth, would you mind sharing with our listeners? what the APSATS organization is about, how that has influenced your practice and kind of that three -step model, you know, which I'm assuming sounding like your intensive kind of follows the APSATS three phases a little bit. It does. It does a
little bit. So for those of you who do not know, the APSATS organization stands for the Association of partners of sex addicts trauma specialists it's a little bit of a mouthful but I think I said it right you did well done it's a certification process for therapists and coaches as well in in the betrayal trauma world and they use this three -part model the multi -dimensional partner model I believe is what it's called and it's got these three phases that crisis and stabilization
I'm trying to even remember the verbiage of two and three, but it's essentially kind of like meaning making that trauma therapy occurs in stage two and then growth or post -traumatic growth is really stage three. The transformation piece. The transformation. Yep, that's right. So our program does integrate those ideas. Absolutely. We do spend some work talking about crisis stabilization. I will say by the time clients get to our intensive. They have had some crisis intervention already,
some stabilization. Most of them are in therapy. So there's enough of, okay, I have some tools, or at least I know what tools could be. It's actually doing it that's hard, right? So most of the women who come to us have already read all the books, listened to all the podcasts. People who have experienced betrayal trauma are some of the most educated women I've ever sat with. because really absorbing all of the information and researching their experience, which I think
is so valuable. We do hit on a little bit of that. So we do talk about like boundaries. We do talk about coping skills, different things like that. But I will say that I think we probably hover more in that stage too. Our program does.
Because we are so focused on the trauma therapy and that's really where... trauma therapy typically happens in in stage two once you've managed the crisis but we also see trauma therapy as a way to manage the crisis so we kind of we do we kind of touch on on all three actually now that I'm thinking about it and we're talking through it because we definitely we weave in post -traumatic
growth and obviously resilience and Yeah. I know they talk about grief, work, and stage two a lot, and yeah, developing a plan to move forward, et cetera. So I love that. Thank you for answering that question. I think our listeners understand a little bit better of the value of finding someone who is certified, APSAT certified, or at least informed in those stages, because it's so important to do things in the right order of healing as much as possible. What is the desired outcome
of this intensive? or the three of you or the people that you have leading it? Yeah, I think that everyone's individual journey is a little bit different. As clinicians, our goal is always going to be decreased symptoms of trauma and increased emotional regulation and stabilization. We want people to walk out of our program feeling more regulated, more in control, and more confident. in their own abilities and their abilities to make whatever decisions are best for them and
their family. And I think that that's what people experience when they come work with us. That's so good. I know that for me, you know, there's this element that we have called co -regulation. Yes. And when you're married, that is very much a piece of the marriage. And it is a really challenging transition. I mean, we should all have some self -regulation, but co -regulation is a part of being in a relationship with anybody. I have
it with Chris, you know? So here we are in relationship with our spouse and we are transitioning from some amount of co -regulation to self -regulation. So I'm really glad to hear that you guys touch on that a little bit because I don't think that I anticipated this concept at all. There was, there were too many things to think about, let's be honest. And, but it is absolutely the key to creating safety within your body. And gosh, I just, I'd love to hear a little bit more about
that. And, and so if you could touch on that a little bit and also. You mentioned, you know, like this outline of things that you have. How in the world do you keep your participants from reaching that saturation point by noon? Or not reaching it. Or not reaching it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oversaturation. Oversaturation. Especially if we're learning to self -regulate. That is absolutely exhausting. It is exhausting. Yes. Okay. So let me speak to the self -regulation
piece first. So really how we achieve that self -regulation in our program specifically is through the trauma therapy interventions we use. So it's less about tool building. We do do a little bit of tool building. But it's really the trauma therapy that increases self -regulation. If we can decrease your symptoms of trauma, then you're more able to regulate yourself, right? You're not going to be experiencing the intensity of the emotions with triggers. You're not going
to have as many triggers. You're going to be able to tolerate distress more effectively. And so we don't necessarily spend a lot of time teaching self -regulation skills. that is just a natural product of the program based on the trauma therapy that you participate in. We do talk about boundaries and we do talk about safety. And so that co -regulation piece is a part of the conversation, right? co -regulate effectively with someone who your body
is telling you is not safe right now. And so boundaries is about establishing safety for yourself. Part of that is, you know, emotional safety. Maybe we're co -regulating with other people in our life and not our partners. Like where else can you get some of that safety? But then it's really developing that safety within your sense of self. I'm going to pause us there for just a moment because this is huge. The co -regulation or the self -regulation is not a tool. It's a
result. Of the work you've done. And so I think for many of us that are looking to maybe fast forward a little bit or like if I could just gain this concept and apply this tool, then I can self -regulate and then I can do X, Y, and Z. But that's not it, is it? And I have to say that I haven't heard that a lot when it comes to in the counseling world and the coaching world even. A lot of times we'll... hand down these little acronyms and these little three -point
things. Here's how you self -regulate. Yeah. That's not what we're hearing here today. What we're hearing is once you feel safe, then you have access. You're within that window of tolerance and you have access to yourself to manage your internal world, to make decisions and to make boundaries that continue you into this healing process. I feel like we just got handed a new key to a door we haven't been able to unlock yet. Yeah. With that information. That's good.
And all trauma therapy increases that window of tolerance. I think that's a great point to bring in is that window of tolerance. If we can increase your window of tolerance, you're staying in it more and more every single day. And so there are tools for self -regulation, right? Therapists know them. Coaches know them. We teach them to our clients. And they are hard to implement. We work really, really hard and sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. And it's not that
they're not helpful. I think from my clinical perspective, it's just incomplete. And if we have an intervention that can get you there faster, why are we not using it? Yeah. And you said earlier, Elizabeth, that this intensive is expensive. And I don't know what the amount is. And I'm hoping that you'll share it at the end of our talk. But what better way to use your money? I love Dave Ramsey says, don't let your money tell you where to go. You tell your money where
to go. And what a great investment in your future, in your present, in your joy, in your ability. to live a great life. So it's, you know, expensive, I think is relative. I think it costs more to not. What's more, what's also as expensive as going to the doctor and having high blood pressure medication. And for those that do massage therapy, massage therapists are expensive. You know, and there's a lot, a lot of costs that go into healing. Why not apply it in the most effective place?
There are a lot of costs. And this is the exact conversation that I have with clients or individuals who are interested in coming to participate in our intensive. We almost ruin it. Can you afford not to do it? If your body is shutting down and you're not functional, if you can't go to work, you're not sleeping, you're not eating. Yeah, absolutely. And because it really jumpstarts the healing, because it speeds along that integration, because it works to transform the neurobiology
in your brain. It's going to get you faster, get you there faster. And so, you know, I have clients who say, oh, you know, I can only afford therapy once every week. I get it. I hear you. I understand. And what if this intensive could make it so that then you only have to go to therapy once a month? And then you actually stop therapy two years before you would if you were just going once a week. So it really is just about where you want to allocate your resources and doing
it wisely. Yeah. Okay. So what about that saturation point before noon? That's right. So I think one of the things that we do, and this is, again, part of what differentiates us from some other programs out there, is we don't do a lot of education. We're not pumping out a ton of new information. Like I said, most of the clients who come to us are very well -educated. have read the books. In our first group of the program, we talk about
attachment ambivalence and Michelle Mays. I'm sure you all are familiar with her work and The Betrayal Bind. It's such a fantastic resource. And everyone is like, yeah, yeah, I've read that book. I'm like, perfect, because now this is your second exposure to it and you can intake it a little bit better, right? So we're not giving a lot of new information. We do have one psychoeducation group a day with very specific topics. But it's not a lot of new information. It's much more
experiential. And the information that we do provide, we also give you like a book to take home with you, right? So we have a workbook that myself and the other founders of the program have created. And it is not meant for homework. We are very clear, like do not even open this book until you get home, like home from the program. You don't need it right now, but know that everything that we are talking about today and right now is... is something that you can take home with
you and reference later. So we really try to make sure that we give those resources so that they can revisit them, but we're not pumping out a bunch of new information. Our program is much more experiential. So our morning groups are what are called process groups. So again, it's a lot about shared experiences, connections, expression of emotional experiences. For example, one of our groups is an anger and grief group. So we talk about What is anger? How do we feel
anger? What are the different types of anger? How can you own your anger? You know, as women, we're often told you can't be angry or if you're angry, you're aggressive or, you know, all of these messages that just are a part of our society. And so just providing our clients with an opportunity to like claim their anger because they have a right to be angry about what has happened is really powerful. So so that's what that's what the morning looks like is that process group.
We take breaks. Hour -long lunch break. Like I said, we're across the street from the park. Go take a walk. Please leave the office. Go walk down to Starbucks. Do whatever you need to do. Just take a little reprieve. And then, you know, we have the afternoon trauma therapy sessions and those psycho ed groups. But really, so information overload is not an issue. It's not as much an information overload. Do people get fatigued?
Yes. However. That's what we want. It is okay if you are fatigued and tired or emotionally drained because that is a really, really good spot to be in to do the trauma therapy work. The more in touch one is with their emotional experience, which we tend to be more in touch with them when we're a little bit fatigued, right? The more effective the trauma therapy is. So we don't actually mind that. If you're feeling a little raw, a little vulnerable, amazing. Let's
dig in. Wow. I did not know that. That is so cool. All right. Good to know. So Elizabeth, what difference do you see with your clients who don't go through this intensive versus the clients who do go through it? What are the outcomes that you see as a therapist? Generally. What I see is that increased emotional regulation and that increased sense of safety with self. You know, we talk a lot about attachment and finding secure attachment, not necessarily in
our relationships, but within ourself. And I think the clients who participate in our intensives are able to do that much quicker. They have decreased symptoms of PTSD much quicker. They feel physically better. They're sleeping, you know. Headaches have decreased. Chronic pain or fatigue has decreased. They're able to get back to living their lives, I think, just more quickly, really. One of the things that I see as a coach or that I've even experienced personally is the overthinking, too,
which is exhausting. And the safety -seeking habits, which are good, but can be exhausting and sometimes can turn on us, too, and become unhealthy. Yeah. So do you see that as well? I'm sure you do. Yeah. Yeah, we definitely do. And actually, this brings up another interesting point, I think, a benefit of really any therapeutic intensive program, as long as it really is that
therapy and not as much of a retreat style. We see a lot of other co -occurring mental health issues and betrayal trauma, and sometimes it takes clinicians and providers a long time to tease it out. Because some of the symptoms overlap so significantly, right? Betrayal trauma and ADHD, betrayal trauma and OCD. We see, I mean, the symptoms can be the same. And so sometimes there's actually something more going on than the betrayal trauma itself. Sometimes there is
an undiagnosed ADHD. Sometimes there's undiagnosed OCD. And so when we get clients in our program, when we get them multiple days in a row, when we see how their brain responds to the trauma therapy, when we see how they show up in a group setting, when other clinicians in our clinic also get to collaborate on their care, we're typically able to come up with a more accurate diagnosis, which then can actually change the
course of their treatment. So we've had clients who have come in where at day two, I'm like, wow, I just really think there's something else going on. And so we're able to do a little bit more assessment. And it turns out they probably have undiagnosed OCD, which is a whole different treatment plan, right? It's a whole different medication regimen if they're working with a
psychiatrist. And so that is another thing that I think is really important about, or just like an extra benefit of being able to be seen by multiple providers and seen over, you know, long days over a short period of time is we just get so much more information as clinicians so that we can provide the best and most accurate treatment plan for our clients. And I love that idea of
groupthink. You know, you've got a team of people with eyes on you, finding those comorbidities and other issues and being able to untangle all those wires. That's so powerful. Yeah. Yeah. Having a diagnosis changes everything. It really, really can. And when you're doing this treatment therapy, whether it be in the intensive or outside of the intensive, I'm assuming you see people. outside of the intensives. You know, many of us are familiar with things like EMDR or brain
spotting. I have a client who, you know, well, let's just say that some people respond really well to those things. Other people don't necessarily. So what kind of trauma therapies do you use that you guys find effective? Yeah, we use a trauma therapy that's not as common. It's called emotional transformation therapy or ETT. It's based out of Austin, Texas. The founder's name is Dr. Vasquez. He is one of the most intelligent people I've
ever met in my entire life. He's fantastic. And he developed this trauma treatment modality and it just really kind of stayed in Texas. You know, he trained all of his own clinicians. He would bring in students and train them. So you go down to the South and most people know, most clinicians know what ETT is. A lot of clinicians are certified.
um in that treatment modality and up here it's just not as common and so we are i believe our clinic has the only certified ett providers in the state of washington and actually that could be true even in the entirety of the pacific northwest and so it's it's unique it's a little bit different it has not yet been empirically validated so similar to brain spotting has not been empirically validated yet it's kind of we're coming on the heels of emdr right so everyone knows what emdr
is and the These other trauma treatment modalities where there's a lot of research, but we're still doing more research, are kind of coming on the heels of it, and ETT is one of those. And clinicians in our clinic are trained in other modalities. We have clinicians who are trained in EMDR as well, and they just don't use it anymore because what we have found is that ECT is the most effective for our clients. Are they similar in how they're used, like with the eyes and all of that? There
are some similarities. There are also some differences. So with ETT, we do do different eye movements and we also use light and color. EMDR uses a light bar. ETT uses some light as well, but we integrate different color wavelengths in addition to the light. What the research, well, the research that was pulled from in order to kind of find or found this treatment modality is originally from like marketing and interior design teams do research on the psychology of color. And that
wasn't something that. therapeutically was studied often, but Dr. Vasquez was able to dig into that research with a theory that he had to create this modality. And what that research shows is that colors are associated with emotion. And so there's endless research out there about it, right? Because interior designers want to decorate spaces that are desirable to our brains. Same with marketing teams. They want to market products
that are desirable to people's brains. And so he was able to use that research and then integrate it into this therapeutic modality. And so we use color to get people in touch with the intensity of that emotion. or kind of, you know, prompt different experiences that maybe are not like
right on the surface. If someone needs to do a little bit of grief processing and cognitively they know that, but they're having a hard time getting in touch with the emotions of it, we can expose their eyes to a color that's associated with sadness and grief and it helps them get in touch with that emotional experience. Ooh, that's fascinating. It is absolutely. I love green. And anyone that knows me loves, knows that I love nature, pine trees specifically.
Right. So, and, and so that is just being my house, the outside of my house is green. I can't keep plants alive like Chris. So unfortunately there's probably some work to do there, but, but yeah, that's amazing. I, when I see that dark color green, my shoulders drop. Yeah. And it probably has a lot to do with those experiences of where I feel safe. Yeah. Color, do you associate with sadness? Because as Elizabeth was talking, I was trying to think, what color is sad to me?
Well, I don't know what color is sad to me. But I will say what's coming to mind right now as we're talking about it is I really struggle with the color pink. I don't like the color pink. And I have a mother wound. And my mom's favorite color was pink. So Elizabeth, yes. There is something there. That's amazing. Yeah. And it's a good question. And it is interesting that the colors are not, it's not necessarily intuitive. Like what we would, would think green is actually,
and everything is a spectrum, right? So although, you know, this color is associated with grief and sadness on the other spectrum, it's, it's joy and happiness and empathy. And so it depends on really the state of mind you're in, what you're thinking about. which emotion is going to come out. So, so green is actually the color associated with sadness. However, on the other end of that spectrum, happiness, peace, empathy, love. And so it really depends. It depends on the day.
It depends on your experience. It depends on the moment. And so sometimes we have. We have, we call them resource colors. So if you have a color that you're really drawn to, we call that a resource color. It's a color that your brain really loves. And maybe your resource color right now is green and that's what soothes you, but it can change over time depending on your life experiences. So although it might be green
right now, if you have. an experience that is really significant with grief or sadness upcoming you might struggle with green for a little bit but when you move through those emotional experiences it can become a resource color again so there is like you're saying there's a reason why people like to go walk in the forest and we like to be outside and look at the green grass and the trees um there's a reason that people love the ocean and blues and want to just stare at the
water right we can almost like We use those colors to help support our own emotional experience. So what you're saying is this isn't black and white. Come on. Come on. The other thing that sets ETT apart from EMDR, which I just want to mention, and I actually think that this is what
makes. the the treatment modality of ect stand out the most and why we use it why it is so effective and why it just speeds the process along all trauma therapy is amazing i will say that too emdr brain spotting prolonged exposure therapy every single trauma therapy at the end of the day will get you the same results that's what the research says however they will get you there at different speeds and so that's that's maybe
the thing to consider. And ETT in our experience and what the research is saying is it just gets you there faster. And it's because of this. There's an element of biofeedback to ETT. So if you all are familiar with biofeedback, that means we get real -time information from someone's brain while we are doing the therapy. Now, when we are dissociating or in fight or flight, we cannot do any trauma processing. Like our brain is in a state of trauma and it is not going to happen.
And so your brain has to be integrated in order to really move through the traumatic experiences in a way that decreases your symptoms. I'll just give you my little short neurobiology lesson here. If either of you are familiar with - Well, Jen's going to hate this because, I'm kidding, Jen loves brain science. It's your pen. Oh, yeah. Jen's got, listeners, Jen's got her notebook out. She's got a pen. Where's your highlighter, girl? Okay. Take it away, Elizabeth, please.
Some of you might be familiar with Dan Siegel. He's a pediatric psychiatrist. Fantastic. He wrote the book Mindsight. He's done a lot of research. And he developed this model. Because he's a pediatric psychiatrist, all of his stuff is very approachable, which is why I like it. But I use it with adults, too, because it's just so easy to talk about. It just makes so much sense. So he talks about the hand model of the
brain. And his hand model of the brain is if you make a fist with your hand, your thumb is, yep, four fingers wrap around your thumb. And so we pretend that this is your brain. Your thumb is your amygdala, which is your emotional regulation center, right? That's where fight or flight lives. Your forefingers are your prefrontal cortex that wrap around that amygdala. Your prefrontal cortex lives behind your forehead. That is critical thinking, logic, decision making. Up there is
also the hippocampus. That's where our memories are stored. And so this is a little bit of a metaphor, but it also is biologically what happens in your brain. When we experience that fight or flight response or have a big emotional reaction to something because of trauma, our amygdala gets activated. And it metaphorically pushes against your prefrontal cortex until you do what
Dan Siegel calls flip your lid. And now when your lid is flipped, your amygdala, that emotional regulation center in your prefrontal cortex, logic, critical thinking, decision making, memory storage. There is a biological block between those two parts of your brain. They are no longer communicating with each other. This is why we experience and we hear people say, I know this to be true, but I feel something different. I know it, but I don't know it. Yes. Those parts
of your brain are not communicating. We cannot do trauma therapy when your brain is in fight or flight. It is not effective. So this is also when you hear people say, but I've talked about this a hundred times and I don't feel better. Right. It's because you're checked out. Your brain is dissociating the whole time you're talking about it. So, of course, you don't feel better. And so what we have to do is we have to ground.
You use a grounding skill, right? Deep breath, muscle movement, wiggle your toes and fingers. This is where some self -regulation tangible skills come in. Temperature changes, scent changes, things like that. That reintegrates your brain. Now everything is communicating appropriately. When all the parts of your brain are communicating, then we can move you through the traumatic experience.
That experience moves from your emotional regulation center to your hippocampus and is actually stored in your long -term memory where your critical thinking and logic can access it, right? So that's what it is. We're just integrating all of those things. So ETT has that biofeedback element, which means we know when you are in fight or flight, when you are in your trauma therapy session. So we can pause, we can ground, we can reintegrate the brain. And then we just jump back in and
keep going. With other trauma therapies, your provider is guessing. And we are very good at our jobs, but we cannot read your mind. It's just not possible. Everyone dissociates. And people are really good at hiding it, not intentionally, but it's a skill that you've developed over time. And so although you might appear to be calm and regulated, your brain is really checked out. And so we need that information or as much of
it as we can get. because that's going to speed along your healing if we can ground you, integrate you, and then continue to process them. What are your thoughts on biofeedback where they do the little things up on the brain? Yeah, biofeedback is great. Yeah, very cool. Every therapy, like I said, every trauma therapy is going to be effective. It's just a matter of how quickly you want to get there. And so biofeedback is... fantastic
and can be very, very helpful. I think ETT really just takes a lot of these trauma therapies, combines the best parts of all of them into one. Would you say that this is good both for the betrayal person as well as the addict or anyone who's gone through any type of adverse childhood experience? Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And we don't just do ETT in these intensive programs. We use it just on an outpatient therapy basis as well.
So with our sex addiction clients, with any kind of trauma client, it can be really used for most mental health concerns. There is actually a specific addictions protocol with ETT. I believe it was just last year they did the first case study on sex addiction and it was incredibly effective. Wow. Very, very cool. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Tell us, give us the nuts and bolts, if you would, about this intensive, but I'm also curious, do you treat men? Do you have an intensive for men
as well as for women? And also you're in the state of Washington. Are you able to see people outside of the state in some capacity? Yeah. So we are in the state of Washington. All of our providers are licensed in Washington. We also have providers licensed in Colorado and Texas. So we can serve any clients in those three states. And if you want to participate in our intensive program, you can fly here from any
state to participate in that program. So the way that the licensing laws work is as long as you're physically in our state, we can provide you services. And so although we are only licensed to practice in three states, we do have clients who fly in from other states that we are not licensed in to get our services. Um, we are really, really trying to get a men's betrayal intensive off the ground. There are not a lot of resources for betrayed men. I'm sure you all know that.
There are not. Cricket noises out there for the guys. Crickets. But I will tell you, we have been trying to get this program off the ground for a year and we cannot get enough interest in it. They're brave enough to talk about that yet. Just like we don't talk about sex addiction for the women as much, and that's starting to come along, right? Yeah, the betrayal piece for the men. Yeah, so we've been trying. We have a wait list on our website that men can sign
up for. They sign up, we call them immediately, and they don't answer. We give them a few months, and we send an email, you know, just checking in, we're still here. So we are working on trying to... get a men's betrayal program off the ground. We do treat sex addiction. We do not currently have a sex addiction intensive, but it is something that we've been thinking about a lot and actually thinking about integrating the ETT addictions protocol to do an intensive program for sex addiction.
It is not something that is happening right now, but we really hope in the next year or so we will have a men's program as well. Sounds like a great growth goal. Okay, so if our listeners wanted to participate in your intensive, how would they get a hold of you? How would they sign up for this? What's the cost involved and the time involved? So probably best way to sign up is to go to our website. It's www .thebtrc
.com. We have all of the intensive information on the website and you just fill out our contact form saying that you're interested in participating. And then next steps are to set up a consultation to make sure that you're a good fit for the program and to make sure that we can collaborate. on your care and, and get you all taken care of. The program cost is $3 ,500 for three and a half days. It's actually less than I thought you were
going to say. Yeah. And it is like, it's an investment and we really, really try to make these programs approachable because they are so important. So I just did the math. That's about, that's almost 18 visits with a therapist. Knock that out in three days. All handled in three and a half days. Plus you get to stay in a hotel and there's Starbucks and croissants and you're going to, you're going to make some new girlfriends. Jen, I think I want to go. Go. Let's go. We could, we could,
oh, we might be trouble though. Yeah, we are trouble. Let's go. Okay. We welcome it. Okay. Elizabeth, I'm excited and I'm encouraged that that was not, I thought you were going to say like $9 ,000 or something. Plus you're in beautiful Seattle and you can go see Pike's Place Market and visit the ocean and do all that. We encourage people to stay extra. Stay a couple extra days. Spend the weekend in the hotel. We have fabulous hotels over here with wonderful spas. That's
where you can get your retreat. your retreat -like experience, right? Come to your therapy intensive and then take a couple days, go to the beach, go to the ocean, get a massage. Do some self -care. Or you head home. Yep, exactly. Yeah. I've been so curious about intensives and it's just been a pleasure to have you on educating all of us about what this entails. In closing, do you have a word of encouragement you'd like to share with our listeners to kind of wrap things
up? Oh, absolutely. I mean, just that the way you feel now is not how you will feel forever, really. I mean... People are resilient. Your brain is resilient. Human brain is really amazing. It truly, truly is. And I would really highly encourage anyone who is feeling that stuckness, feeling that, you know, my brain is telling me one thing, but my emotions are telling me something different. Seek out someone, a clinician who is certified in some sort of trauma therapy modality.
It will make all of the difference. Thank you for that. Thank you so much. It's been such a joy to meet you and to hear about this. I wish I had heard about this a long, long time ago. And for those of you that are contemplating, let this be your sign if you're into signs. Let this be. Here's your sign, yeah. At least check
it out. Check it out. See if this is a good direction for you to go because as someone who's been in this healing process, honestly, really for over 18 years now, I can testify that you will come to these points where the brain doesn't match up or where the emotions don't match up with the thought process. And the sooner you can work towards connecting those two, the faster you all, you ask me all the time, folks, you ask me, how can I fast forward? This is the way.
This is the way to do it. Yes. Good point. So as someone who's been doing this a long time, please hear my heart. Do yourself a favor. Consider the impact of what $3 ,500 could do in the long term. It is a short -term financial investment for a long -term gain for your emotions, for your body. And let's be honest, for those of us that... are raising children or have raised children, what you have to give to your children after you've worked through some of the betrayal
processing. And when you come on the other side to, you know, the folks help me out here. What's the word? Post -betrayal. Thank you. That's the word. Once you get there, the gift that you have to offer your children, nobody can put a price on that. The impact you're having on what is epigenetics? It takes one person to stand up and change the narrative and let the health flow downward to our descendants, right? Yeah. You know, we're constantly talking to our clients
about how this is not a life sentence. This is a chapter. And what I'm loving about this whole conversation is that an intensive like this can turn it into, instead of a chapter, can turn it into a pamphlet. It can. And let's be honest, some of us feel like we're reading the same chapter over and over and over again. Let's move on to the next one. Elizabeth, thank you. That was great encouragement, too. So excited to meet you and have you in our wheelhouse. And we look
forward to getting to know you better. And maybe we'll just have to have a trip up to Bellingham or not Bellingham, Bellevue. And come check out your clinic and see the good work that you and your partners are doing. So thank you. Yeah, thank you. Absolutely. All right, listeners, on that note, thank you for joining us on this episode of the Betrayal Recovery Transformation Podcast. We really hope you found today's discussion
insightful and empowering. Boy, I sure did. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate, and leave a review for us. This changes the algorithm on all the social media platforms and helps people to find the content that they might need faster. So until next time, everyone, be kind to yourself and keep pursuing your own healing. We'll see you soon.