Psychedelic Nazis - Best of Coast to Coast AM - 5/26/24

luck charm. Actually, so I knew a friend in Zurich and he was also I needed some for my mom, you know, because we had we were we were talking about my father also said if I want to use LSD against Alzheimer's microdos, how where can I get it? So I thought, because I knew that he had his friend had some. I asked him whether he could provide me with some, but he brought me and then he brought me some LSD, which then became my good lucture.

And because it was useless for my mother because it was on paper, it was on on on blotting paper. It was like a drop put on paper and then you basically take the paper and that is how you how you how you take LSD in this case, But it's not it's of no use if you want to do micro dose. Because then I asked him how how do I do you have to cut it now and then fifty pieces? And said, well, this is a problem.

So when you want a micro dose, you actually meet the actual drops of LED and then you can it can be dosage in a way that the micro dose is possible. But I still had this in my pocket, and I was at the archives of Thunders which today no artists who had discovered LSD, which was this company archive where I didn't they made you use it. They let you use it the archive, but they don't tell

you what exactly they have. But I was interested in finding a meeting between the CIA Operative Sydney GUARDLYB and the CEO of sun God art Stole in the early fifties where the CIA man wants to buy the world supply of LSD and basically tells the Swiss company that LSD cannot be marketed unregulated and certainly not at all to the eastern side of the so called Iron Curtain. Like the CIA was very much afraid that the Soviets

would get their hands on LSD. So I went to this archive to find this document because I thought maybe there's a memo of CIA guy. You know how long they talk about what they taught this I never found, but I found other interesting things.

too busy to deal with you. But you go back anyway, and then you had the LSD and offered it to the archivist and it seemed to have worked right. It helped that even though he didn't take it, it kind of opened the door for you.

It's kind of absurd. And then I'm gonna After I had received my good luck term, I looked at it and I told you, was like with like little papers. It's like little squares of paper, that's what it is. And they usually they have like an imprint on it or like a funny a comic or something like that. And this this one that I had received had the old flag of Sundals, the original company on on on this on this uh illegally re produced the LSD that

I received in Zurich. So I thought that was quite funny and that I had the idea of uh, because when I when I went to that, when I went to the toilet of the archives, I had to go through the archives itself, and I saw the old flag of Sundals and I realized that this old flag and the archives the very same flag that is on the illegal LSD that I had just received from my friend, that was also made in battle by an illegal LSD can obviously who knows what he's or she's doing, but

it's still illegal, you know. So I showed him this, the archivist. I said, did you ever see LSC? Have you ever seen you? Ever seen how it looks? He said, no, actually I've never seen it. It's illegal. How can I see it? So he was very correct Swiss, and I said, well, I happen to have them with me, which I guess is not even illegal to carry it with you, just like sell it and whatever. I also his friend, he just gave it to me. He said, of course, I

don't want money for this. This is LSD for your mom. How could I know ask money for this. LSC is not really a very commercial drug. It's more like a I don't know, it's a different kind of currency somehow. So I told him about this and he was. He became kind of interesting. He said, yes, I would like to see LSD, but I don't know where I would see it. So I told him I have them, and I showed it to him and he was quite amazing. But this has the old logo of our company on it.

How is this possible? And I said, it's like a joke of the guy who made it, you know, an homage, you know. Because chemist they have like they have like a god. And this god is called Albert Hoffmann, and he was the chemist of Standards. He was the one who developed, let's say, discovered LSD in forty three. While he was he was working, he was trying to find

a stimulant. And the company Thunders was developing medicines from er good, which is the fund fundus that grows on rise parasitical fungus and it has one very potent alkaloid. And Thunders was trying to make medicines out of this. Only out of this they focused. They focused on this ergod. So they had like a Migraine medicine from this ergod. They had something against for contraction of of of blood vessels,

which was which was a big hit. So Thunders made medicines from Ergod and then in forty three suddenly they had this LSD compound which did not work on the body but on the mind. So the company also you know, didn't really they didn't really know at the time what to do with it. And this confusion of LSD can still be still be felt today in the company archives, like they know, we created LSD, but we never went ever able to profit from it. It was taken out

of our hands and turned into an illegal drug. And only now the psychedelic research is starting, so that the company has a very strange relationship to it. So when he saw the archivist, when he saw the LSD in front of him, he was like, he was very interested in and then I said you can have some. I give you one trip as a gift because you're helping me so much here in the archives. It was kind

of like a joke, and he thought it also. It was that he thought it was very generous or funny of me to offer this, which he had to decline because of his position, But that kind of created a bond, like we were talking, you know, we became like we created a relationship through this NSD. So the LSD was the good luck term actually, because then he went back into the archives and he had told me before he

doesn't have time this day because he's so busy. He was a little bit annoyed by me, and I think every by everyone who always looks for LSD in these archives, like you just look, we have a big company with everyone who comes to the archives it his own, always interested in LSD because LC is such a spectacular It is the most spectacular development and the one that they let go out of you know, out of hand and out of their control. So I was actually trying to

find out why what went wrong? Why was the company not able to put it on the market. Why this is obviously because the CIA was so interested in it, and as we talked before, this is THEA was so interested in it because the Nazis were so interested in it. The Nazis were working with psychedelics for interrogation techniques. So

the question is, how did the Nazis know. I wanted to see the connection between Sunders, the Swiss company, and the Nazis in forty three because forty three LSD was discovered, and forty three, you know, the World War two was at its height, you know, it was like raging, so potential and and and some those finds something that is so potent on the mind because LSD is the most potent substance for the on the human mind. That's in German.

The title is the most potent substance. Must have been interesting. But how did they know about it? And the archive is after I gave him the LSD, went back into the archives and brought me all the papers of the CEO because that's what I wanted to see. I wanted to see what decisions were taken by the CEO of Thunders in forty three. So I studied his correspondence, which probably no one had ever looked at it before, you know, because it's kind of boring, just because the letters of

the CEO of a company in forty three. But he communicates with one person very intensely, that is Richard Kuhn. And Richard Kuhn later was Nobel Prize winner for chemistry. At the time in forty three, he was Hitler's favorite biochemist. He had developed serene, a deadly nerve poison for Hitler, and he was a very good friend of Arthro Style,

which is the Swiss CEO. The CEO of Thunders. They had been friends because they had learned biochemistry from the same from the same person, which was Professor Villistetter, also Nobel Prize winner of Chemi Jewish German Maverick of the early century, who was then you know, persecuted because he was Jewish, but he was, you know, in the teens and twentieth of the century. He was the leading biochemist. And he had two kind of sons, and one was Arthur Stole this with the O, and the other was

Richard Richard Kuhn. Richard Kuhn, the Nazi later Nazi biochemist, so Stolen Kuhn had always exchanged information like they were like best research bodies. So Kuhn, the Nazi knew everything about the ergot research in Switzerland, and then knew also everything about LSD and then became very interested in LSD.

And then I found a letter where the Nazi scientists thanks the Swiss THEO for having delivered him the material out of which you make LSD with one more simple chemical step, so like the base of LSD was sent to Heidelberg in nineteen forty three, and that's when the Nazis really became interested in psychoelic research where they really did psychedelic research, because their program starts forty three and goes until forty five when the Americans discover the experiments

at Daho when they liberate the camp. So there's a straight line from the Swiss COO to the Nazis and then to America, which leads to this very complicated history of LSC becoming this object of desire first of the Nazis and then of the American intelligence, and that certainly didn't help the compound to get onto the market. Actually for him, it is. So that's the story of Tripp.

tripping on these substances. But that'd be a resource for you as you continue your research. Let me ask you this.

on this ergot based drink. There has no evidence, there's no evidence for it, but it seems likely like there's there's a lot of a lot of it looks like because his idea was that the evolution of humankind has often been stimulated by substances, so that basically drug use is a historical thing, it's part of our culture, it even forms our culture, so that that's the claim behind it, which is I think quite interesting to discuss.

of that with us. Gottlieb, what he did and how much he acquired, Well, that.

LSD from Tom Sunders, which was actually a false information. But it was very nervous that Thunders, which was you know, this company can sell LSB to everybody, and this is they could also sell like million, They could sell a lot to the Soviet Union and the Soviet Union could make these programs the brainwash Americans, I mean that was that was the big scare because that was also the time time of Korean War where suddenly American.

researched this in depth. I don't know whether this was Moscow sponsored or whether this was just a Czech check thing, because the LSD didn't travel in the Eastern Bloc, a state in that in the in Czechoslovakia around the capital Prague. So what the what the CIA did was basically they tried to convince Thunders to only sell to Western people, only to researchers like LST. Was not on the market yet, but researchers could acquire it from universities with a certificate.

So the CIA wanted to have like they wanted to have an overview of who gets it because they they they were really interested in trying to develop it into a truth drug. That was the big That was the big idea behind np ultru to develop a truth drug. Why did they think less could be a truth drug? Well, because the Nazis thought that, and we talked already about these as reports from the concentration camp of Dachau. They were evaluated by Henry K. Beecher, a Harvard professor. He

was the drug advisor to the American military. Someone has to say, like what does it mean? Like they give mescaline this milligram and then they know someone has to evaluate it. This was this Harvard, this Harvard guy. He wrote reports on what he called ego depressant drugs, which is actually quite quite quite accurate. These drugs are ego

depressed depressant, as we had talked about before. And these reports landed on the desk of Sydney, god believe, and there he read things like it might be possible that the Soviet Union would buy a whole American battleship with LSD like into the water and into the drinking supply,

and that battleship would be incapable of action. Or it might even be possible that a big city, big American city like San Francisco, LSD would be brought into the water supply of New York and then the whole city would not function anymore for a couple of hours, which might give you a a dement an advantages during an attack. So like, this was serious stuff. You know, this was the early fifties. So God, you read this. So he decided, we have to be prepared. We have to get on

top of this. We have to know, we have to control LSD, and then we have to also investigate what is LSD.