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And welcome back to Coast to Coast George Nori with you. Matthew McKay is a clinical psychologist, a professor of psychology at the Right Institute, co founder of the Hay Cashburry Psychological Services, founder of the Berkeley CBT Clinic, and co founder of the Bay Area Trauma Recovery Clinic, which serves low income clients. He has authored and co authored a number of books forty plus including the Relaxation and Stress Reduction work Book, and is the most recent one, Lessons
from the Afterlife. Matthew, welcome back.
How have you been been good. It's great to speak with you again, George.
Last time we were on about three years ago, we were talking about your work, The Luminous Landscape of the Afterlife. I had a great time with you.
That's right. We were talking about that and Jordan pretty much wrote that book and in it he was describing, you know, the spirit world in detail and what do expect and how to prepare for the transition. But now he has something new he wants to really take a look at, you know, to explain the purpose of the physical universe. You know, these planets, we live on it, why we come here? So's he's got a whole new thing that he wants to share with people.
Explain to our new listeners, Matthew, who Jordan is?
Yeah, thank you? So Jordan is my son. Fifteen years ago, he was bicycling home from work. He was attacked on the street. Four men attacked him, probably to try to steal his bicycle. There's a tremendous physical fight that ensued. Eventually he turned and moved away from them. They shot him in the black. He died on the street. And what happened, of course, to me, is what happens to anyone who loses someone they loved deeply. I had this tremendous need to know did Jordans still exist, and if so,
was the okay? And and that set me on this journey to find him, and began with, you know, going to mediums and learning what they could they could tell me. Although that was uncomfortable and it felt like I wasn't I wasn't part of a conversation. I was just hearing from him through them, uh, And so I thought him
in other ways. I went to see doctor Alan Botkin in Chicago, who had discovered something called induced after death communication, which is a variant of E M d R. I had moved into sensitization processing, which I used with my clients. I'm a psychologist, I worked with trauma and I use em DR, and so he had had accidentally fallen into a small variant of the protocol. I went to Chicago. I experienced induced after death communication, and for the first
time that Jordan's of death, I heard his voice. He was there, he was in the room, and he was telling me the things that I deeply needed to know. He's with you, I love you, I'm watching over you, and I'm good. I'm in a good place. I'm safe and happy. Well, that made a big difference for me. I felt some of the grief lifting, but I still had this tremendous need to have a conversation, not just a one way experience, but to have a conversation, to be able to ask him questions, to be able to
explore things with him. And so I consulted the late Ralph Messner, who was a specialist in the afterlife. He taught me how to do channel communication, and that is what opened the door for me finally to be able to talk to Jordan, and I've had hundreds of conversations with him through channel communications that have you know, been profound and meant so much to me. The things he answered,
so many questions, He's blown my mind. He's described things that I had no about, knowledge of, or never prepared to be able to understand until these communications. So it's been an extraordinary journey with him. And this latest book is his attempt to explain why we have the physical uners, why are we here, what are we doing here, what's this all about? And so it's made a real impact
on me. The other thing also that he's wanting to do is teach something called deep knowledge meditation, and so people can connect to their own soul knowledge, their higher self, their accumulated soul wisdom, and this meant will allow them to actually connect to that. It's part of our energy,
our soul energy always lives in the afterlife. And even though we come here and part of our solergy energy energy these bodies and we have amnesia and we can't remember of our past lives or any of the experiences in the afterlife, the part of this is always there
in the afterlife. And we can communicate to that part that has full awareness and memory of all of our past lives, all of what we've learned in the spirit world, and so it's possible to use this communication to actually connect to the part of us that remembers everything.
Matthew, when you first made the contact with Jordan, how did you react.
Well? The experience of the IADC induced after death communication with Bocket was I was flabbergasted. I was overwhelmed to hear his voice and to hear the things that he said to me. When I learned how to do channel communication, it was profoundly moving to me because he was saying things. I could feel his love, I could feel him in my body, and I could see and he was saying
things that I had never imagined before. And we're not just enlightening but mind blowing, and so that those early experiences were full of emotion, full of love, and full of discovery for me.
Did it calm you down?
Yes? Because what I learned was that Jordan was just a thought away. I hadn't lost him. Death doesn't and the love and the relationship that we have, In fact, the love and the relationship was as strong as ever and I could make contact with him anytime I wanted to, and so it changed my whole understanding of death. And what it did is it recreated or re established my relationship with him, and it continues all these fifteen years. We talk at least once a week we have, and
those conversations can be varied. He can advise me and guide me, but also he can tell me amazing things about the universe and our role within it. So it's been an experience that has changed my understanding of what death is and what relationship and love is in the face of death.
Who initiates the initial contact, Matthew, Jordan or you.
Well, typically I will establish contact with him. I sit at a desk that's familiar and feels safe, and there's a little ritual I go through. I could describe that if anybody's interested, because it's pretty easy to channel. Almost anybody can channel, and I've caught taught hundreds of people to do it. So I can initiate the contact with
a small ritual. But it's not uncommon for Jordan to start a conversation with me spontaneously, and oftentimes he will start talking to me when I'm about to do something really stupid. And he will speak and say what don't do that, or wait a minute, or do this instead, and so often as he will initiate, but you'll initiate when I'm involved in something that that's you know, kind of heading in the wrong direction.
What does your wife Jude think of your contact.
Well, she's very grateful for it. I read to her all of the things that he says, all of the communications that come from him. She makes contact with him in a different way. She feels his presence in a different way. She feels it in her body. She feels she has an awareness of him, and he communicates to her telepathy, but not in this channel communication process. So she's grateful for it, but she has her own path to him.
Explain what the deep knowledge meditation is and how can people access that?
Okay, so it's actually fairly simple. What it starts with a question. You want to ask a question and just begin with you know. And the question could be anything you know, like, you know, should I you know, should I invest in some kind of new enterprise or not? Or the question could be you know, what's the nature of the divine? What's you know? What is God? In other words, you could go from the sublime to the
very simple and earth bound. Any question you want to ask, you can ask your higher self, the part of your soul that's always in the spirit world. So what you do is you begin by bringing your attention down to your diaphragm, to your breath, the center of your life, and just bring all of your attention to that part
of your body. And as you observe your breath, you simply note it and the in breath you save yourself in on the out breath, you say out, and you just note the end and the out of your breath. Just continue to watch your breath, and when thoughts show up, notice the thought as soon as you can, and then bring your attention back to your breath. Thoughts always do show up, that's okay, But as soon as they do, as soon as you notice it, bring your attention back
to the breath. Now, after a little while, you'll find your mind starting to slow down, and you're going to find that there's a kind of a quietness and and and an openness that you begin to feel. And that's where the channel can open to your higher self, to your to your soul. It's always in the spirit world.
Matthew, where would you Where would you say, Jordan's is Where is his soul? Where is his consciousness? Where is he?
Well, his consciousness is typically in the spirit world, although it could move around in the spirit world, and his consciousness can come to Earth and he can he can move his consciousness to Earth at any time. In fact, he can move his consciousness any planet uh in in the universe uh and observe it. So the consciousness of souls can move instantly kind of wherever they directed. So he can be his consciousness can be in the spirit
world and he can be involved with his soul group. There, he get involved in learning and can be reviewing the caution record. He can be learning some of his spiritual career work, which has a lot to do with guidance and guiding. But he can also bring his awareness right here right and he's in fact is right here right now with me, helping me with this.
Interview, giving your points right.
He does. He gives me part and also he helps you with my clients. There are times when I'm at a loss and I'm not sure really what to do or where to go with a client. I'll ask him and he'll have something to say, which is almost universally helpful. So he can be present. His consciousness can come to me at anytime. I can ask for it, and I can open the door by just simply thinking of him. I can ask him a question, his consciousness will come
to me. So consciousness, once we leave our bodies, is very fluid, and it can move around instantly simply by the intention to go somewhere. We don't have to rely on legs and you know, the the effort of muscles to do any movement. Consciousness moves simply by intention. Consciousnessays I want to go here, and it's there. It's their instant And that's how Jordan can show up here.
What does he think of God? Does that subject ever come up?
Yes, it does, and it's come up in ways that have kind of have been very different. You know. I grew up and went to Catholic school, and I had a picture of God, you know, as a little you know, perfect and all powerful and has always existed, and uh, you know, so they're there and and sits in the seat of judgment and evaluates whether we're good or bad, and whether we're going to go to even hell and all of that, none of it is true according to you.
Gordon's descriptions to me. When he talks about the Divine, he says that you know that God actually has not always existed. God evolved out of primal energy and eventually into into light, and then the light became self aware. And and so God or the Divine or all, whatever you want to call it, has not always existed. And and God and all continues to grow and evolve, and so it's not perfect. It's continuing to evolve as a consciousness.
The other thing that was different that he explains to me is that we are all God, all of the piece, all of the human humans. The souls have been created by All, but they also are part of all. We are God, and so that is a very different picture than I got growing up in Catholic school. That and we can't be cast out, we can't be judged, we can't be sent to some purgatory or hell, because we are God and we're always going to be God and we're always going to be with God. So again it's
a very different fiction. There's no judgment whatsoever. And as God continues to grow and evolve, we do that right alongside of God. And in fact, God sends us. The Divine sends us to these physical places, these planets, in this case in the Honor and a very difficult planet with lots of pain, sends us here to learn things. And everything we learn then gets uploaded to all and becomes part of the knowledge of all. So we are on a you know, a very special sacred mission here.
Everything we learn, all the pain that we go through, all the struggle we go through, all the things that we encounter and help us evolve and grow, all of that then gets uploaded and it's part of the divine. So it's from Jordan's point of view, you know, the Divine is continue to evolve, and we are in this coming to Earth and going through these these processes of entering bodies and living a life in order to help God grow.
Do you ever miss him physically, Matthew, Yes, I do very much.
And I'm you know, you know, there's a there's a corner right near a restaurant. Was the last place I ever ate with him, the last place I ever saw him, last place I hugged him. I can't even go buy that that street. I can't go by it because it's just it hurts too much and I do miss him, but but I guess I'm what I'm saying. I missed the physical Jordan. I miss seeing him grow and evolve, and and he'd be thirty nine now and he died
at twenty three. I miss seeing all of the things that he will will not be able to have an experience in his life. And I'm misholding him and hugging him. And so that's very deep, and sometimes that pain just wells hugely.
But did they ever catch and convict the murderers?
No, they didn't. They claim that they know who did it, and they and that person is actually incarcerated for a different crime, but they have never gotten enough evidence to convict him. So he isn't prison but he is hasn't. There's been no justice as far as what happened to Jordan.
What's the greatest lesson you have learned from Jordan?
Yeah, the greatest lesson, I think the lesson that's been most important for me personally in my life is that is what Jordan has taught me about love. And what he's taught me is that love is not an emotion, is action. It's what we do and that and he taught me to commit myself every morning, to have at every moment of choice, to bring it to every moment of choice of love and have love be the basis of everything I choose.
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