Episode 9: Sifting through misinformation & disinformation.

She has further ramped up her knowledge on the subject through doing podcasts and interacting with experiencers. It's always enlightening speaking with her, and I feel like she's a very refreshing, grounded, rational approach to this topic. Hi, Kelly, how you doing today?

You've read a ton of material, You've interviewed experts, spoken to people who claimed to have direct first hand witness to either a UFO sighting or even direct contact with what we'll call for now aliens. After all of that, and I know this is just wild speculation, but what do you think is happening out there? Do you think that US Earthlings are in fact having contact with some form of non human intelligence? And if so, where might they be coming from? Are they from another galaxy? Are

they from another dimension? Are they extra tempestrial beings from the future? Do they live on Earth somewhere parallel to us? All of the above? What's the answer?

one form or another. It seems as though we are sharing our planet in one sense or another with probably multiple non human intelligences that we just have sort of failed to recognize, or at least failed to recognize within our current paradigm. Something that I think is really interesting about this whole thing is that I think that the Earth probably has a much more complex ecology than we

recognize currently. You know, when you think about the Earth and what we have here, like we really do have a gem and if you go, you know, hundreds of millions of light years in just about any direction, you're not going to find anything like it. This just abundance and proliferation of life that just kind of springs up from every surface and in every corner. We've even found it, like miles underground and at the bottom of Mariana Trench. It seems like this entire planet is just this ball

of life. And it seems as though it could be that there's more here than we thought that there was, and that it's very likely that our planet is this

kind of beacon around which life congregates. And I think that the that we're only just now kind of waking up to the sheer, vastness and complexity of what that life actually looks like, and that there's probably things that are here that maybe we just haven't we haven't evolved to deal with in terms of our senses and our understanding, and that we're beginning to become more aware of that now, and so I think we're probably dealing with a lot

of different things and that what we're coming up against is really a paradigm shift where we recognize a new kind of life, a new way that life can exist.

the street and we didn't know it was there. So that I always feel like, could be what's going on with this now on human intelligence, I always like to bring up the what they call the jungle theory. You know, when you're walking through the jungle to scientists and they see an ant hill and they pick up one and they put a number on its back and they put it back. You know, the answer completely unaware that us humans are there, and yet we are and we're interacting

with them. So it might be something like that that we just don't have the technology or wisdom to know.

piece of evidence is is anecdotal. And I think that for a lot of people, like anecdotes have become this dirty word where it's like, well, it's just anecdotal, so you can't prove it, so it means nothing except that like there are a lot of different kinds of science,

like we're trying. I don't think that we should expect to hold every single field to the same standard of science that we hold, say like physics, where we have this like very very hard science that's like very provable and very like very easy to calculate and you know, comes down to like mathematical equations, because that's just not

how everything works. There's other kinds of science. There's psychology and anthropology, and these are the kinds of science that we use when we're trying to deal with things that can't be broken down into an equation like species and humans and cultures and that sort of thing. We can study those things, still not in as precise and replicable of a way as we can study, say the laws of physics, but that doesn't mean that there's nothing that

we can know about them. And the way that we go about that in these other kind of softer science fields is that we collect, you know, all of this anecdotal data together. And it's not that you accept every single anecdote or every single piece of data as being

like absolute and you don't question it. What you do, if you're responsible, is you take all of the anecdotes, and you take all of this data and you put it together and you look for patterns that emerge, and then you try to understand what it is that you're dealing with from that. And I think that that's completely valid, and I think that something really dangerous is happening in our culture where we feel like we can't rely on what other human beings are telling us about their experience,

about what they know. That doesn't mean that people don't lie. It doesn't mean that there's not people aren't mistaken, or that they aren't frauds. But we're to the point where we don't even trust our own experience when these things happen, because we've decided it can't be it can't be real.

And so but I think the fact that you know, if you go back hundreds of years, thousands of years, we have accounts that very much look like the UFO phenomenon, or you know, interactions with some kind of a non human intelligence that follow the same shape and pattern and kind of like structure of these encounters that people are having now tells us that there's something there. We don't

know what it is. We have to figure that out still, But that to me, is probably the most compelling piece of evidence.

some substantial evidence for this. And there's other cases like when you were saying that, I was thinking that, you know, when they caught these priests doing things to choir boys and whatever at the church, what kind of evidence did they have for that other than anecdotal witnesses or these guys claiming this. There's no video, there's no proof, there's no anything. But that was enough to catch all these guys. So we need to a little more fair in this

realm as well. You're listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio on Coast to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network. We are back on Beyond Contact. We're talking with Kelly Chase, and Kelly, I wanted to ask you, is there a case or two that really pushed you over the edge, that made you go, you know what, this is really credible to me.

There's no real way to argue that something didn't happen there because it was witnessed over multiple hours of these things flying over Washington, d C. There were craft that were spotted hovering over our Congress for hours at a time, and this was witnessed by literally, you know, thousands, if not more people, to the extent that our government had to have the biggest press conference that they had had since the end of World War Two to go and

tell people that like, there was nothing to see here. But their explanation never made any kind of sense, because this was, like I said in one of her multiple hours and also over multiple days, they were scrambling fighter jets to go and get these things, to try to figure out what they were, and to pretend as though our entire military was flummixed and just sort of tricked by some like weird you know, radar data or something that was incorrect, which in no way explains all the

people who are seeing these things on the ground. You can't see, you know, radar artifacts from the ground. I think that that in and of itself, you know, shows you that there's something really interesting going on there. And so that one really early on for me, was one that really stuck out to me, cause I think it's really hard to say that something significant didn't happen.

of reality? How was that?

to these things. And I think a lot of people have the experience that when they start, they're like, Okay, clearly there's something going on here, and I'm going to look into it, but I'm not going to consider abductions or I'm not going to consider, you know, telepathic content. Everybody draws their line in the sand somewhere else in terms of like what they're willing to consider and what

they're own what they're not willing to consider. And so over the last few years, I think that I have had that goalpost continually move as based on what I've read, based on my own experiences, and also really based on getting to know other experiencers and understanding that there are extraordinarily intelligent, very highly functioning, completely non crazy people who

have some stories that sound very very crazy. And so I think in a lot of ways, it's been it's been a slow process having this kind of a paradigm shift in your life. It happens slowly and all at once kind of at the same time. It's hard to like point to an exact moment to say, like that was the moment that I fully recognized that this was real, because even after having my own profound experiences, it takes a process of integration, right, and to even recognize that

something happened to yourself. But over time, the way that that's really changed my perspective on the world is that I think that I've just come to realize that there's a lot more to human experience than we're being told, and that those parts that we've sort of amputated from our human experience and that we don't recognize and that we don't recognize as valid are actually some of the most important parts of what it means to be a human.

Because once you start to let those things in and you start to consider them, and you start to take your own anomaloust experiences seriously, it opens your world up and you start to think differently, and you start to care more about you know, not just about this subject, but about being a good part and what your impact is on the world, and like the things that matter and like loving your family and these like really basic things suddenly become come to the forefront in your life,

which is a kind of a counterintuitive thing that happens. But I know it's not just me. This happens to almost everyone I talk to you it gets involved in this subject. So it's been a really it's been the most incredible experience of my life, to be honest, and I'm just so grateful to have been on this journey.

the works. It's right across the board. It doesn't discriminate, it doesn't discern who's having these experiences, which is fascinating, and I wanted to ask you that how have you seen how these experiences have tended to affect other people's lives.

their own journey. And you know, I actually just got a text message this morning from somebody that I had talked two months ago, who, as a result of getting into this topic, started asking these bigger questions about, like, you know, not just what is the UFO phenomenon, but who am I? And why am I here? And what is my purpose and ended up making a whole life change and now is working for an organization that raises

money for climate change initiatives. And he texted me today just to say like, thank you, and I'm so feeling so fulfilled in my new work and all of that, which which I don't really even feel like I can take credit for. I feel like there's something about the phenomenon itself that when you engage with it, it transforms

your life in a way that is really profound. And so I think seeing that process play out, and I've seen this process play out probably hundreds of times now with people that I've met, and that to me is probably the most fulfilling and exciting part of this work and why I keep doing it.

people have lost their lives over this. And so you know, that's why I think it's so important that we continue to have these conversations just talk about it, but that wese form communities and we start to also form like frameworks for integration, for understanding what might be going on here, so that people have a place to talk about it in a way to talk about it, because I think that when we're able to integrate these things and we're not just having to reject them outright or hide them

or like keep it as our dirty little secret, it can have this like really beautifully transformational effect, Whereas when we have to bury it, it has this like corrosive effect. And so I think that that's why, you know, that's why I'm so passionate about this work.

to what's really going on out there. You are listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network. We are back on Beyond Contact and I'm talking with Kelly Chase right now. Kelly, I wanted to ask you that how do you navigate this immense amount of material that's out there. There's a lot of misinformation, there's a lot of disinformation, there's a lot

of speculation. How do you navigate all this to get to what your version of what you think is happening is happening.

in God. And so to have had my worldview shift so profoundly, it kind of gives you this natural humility because you realize how that you've been wrong before and that you could be wrong again, and that you're only ever kind of one data point away from having to like scrap it all and start over. And so I think that like staying in that place is probably the

most important part. And it's hard to do because we as humans really want to be certain, like we really want to feel like we have the right answer, and it's hard to kind of stay in that space of humility and saying like, I don't actually know, And so a lot of what I do is I will I will read just about anything on this topic, and I've actually will go to the point where I intentionally read things that people are like, oh, that since a scam

artist or that's trash, you shouldn't read that. You know, maybe I'll feel that way after I've read it too, but I think that like you at least have to give it a shot, right, But for the most part, I try to take in as much information as I can from as many different sources as possible, and to try to connect the dots where where I can, and

to notice patterns where they emerge. But there is always sort of this decision tree thing going on in my brain where you know, if you don't if I don't actually know something is true, which is for most of this subject is like most of the things about it, you can't really know if it's true or not. You kind of have to hold that intention and say like, Okay, so if this is true, then these other things are also likely true. But if it's not true, then those

things probably aren't true. In this other set of things, is probably true, and so there's this kind of like web that's created of like all of these different contingencies, and so like, I can't say that I know for sure that I'm getting the best information or that my

ideas are the best ideas. All I can do is try to stay like as intellectually honest as possible about what I actually know and what is just sort of like an idea that sounds right or that I like, or that maybe connects these dots in a way that's satisfying, but that might not actually be the case. And so you know, I think there's very little that I can say about the UFO phenomenon that I can say for

sure is I know to be a fact. And I think that you just sort of have to to sit in that place and allow yourself to know that you don't know, and that allows you to kind of remain flexible and skeptical enough in your thinking.

mean that person didn't have that experience. But it is harder for me and certainly people outside this community to accept those things because that's that's a wild story, you know. But some of these, like the doctor David Jacob's work, you know, he sees the same story over and over from all walks of life. That's pretty compelling no matter who you are. That's a data set, and people disregard that data. We were talking about the evidence earlier. What

about the data that people like him have collected. I've got two thousand people from every walk of life saying that this happened to him, and nine hundred of them are word for word. That's something to me, just a normal rational way of thinking is like, well, wait a minute, what something's going on. I don't know that it's alien, I don't know what it is, but something right. Let

me ask you this, have you noticed a change? Not you personally, but if you noticed a change when you were researching these books and things in the overall thinking in this area with respect to extraterrestrial beings in the way it was perceived like in the forties and fifties and then the seventies, eighties, and then you know today, like we've seen kind of an evolution, right, how has that changed for you? Have you noticed?

modern UFO phenomenon kind of came into prominence. Back then, it wasn't it wasn't assumed it was aliens at all. Actually, that was like one of many hypotheses, including that, you know, it was perhaps Soviet technology. And there's also a lot of people who thought maybe these were coming from you know, the inner Earth, from like a hollow Earth kind of scenario that were all kinds of different ideas of what

could have been going on. And I've kind of made a habit of when I go into use bookstores, I'll buy like any UFO book that was written before nineteen seventy five, because I don't care what it is or who or who wrote it, because you know, back then it was before we kind of had these more solidified

ideas of what was going on. And it's really fascinating how differently people thought about it back then, because then you move forward and we have you sort of have like the beginning of the Contact d movement, but a lot of those contact e's were talking to entities that looked human or appeared to be human or near human,

you know, kind of the Space Brothers situation. But then the Space Brothers kind of like disappeared, and you know, after sort of the era of Betty and Barney Hill, we suddenly get into more of you know, abductions, and sort of the Grays began to become more of the kind of arc type of what we were dealing with here.

And so even like the face of who we imagined to be or who actually was inside of the UFOs has has changed over time, and I find that really fascinating how we've kind of changed our perspective on who these people are. Like before we thought they were coming from from Venus and now they're coming from like Zeta Reticuli or something like that, and those things seem to align with our own technological awareness and our awareness of the universe around us and what's Yeah.

And it's like in Whitley Strieber's book where he talks about cases of way back, way way back, where people told stories of little beings coming down from the trees and they called them fairies and they were short, bald, big eyes, almond shaped eyes. You know, it was through their lens that they were using. And they call them ferries or they call them gnomes or whatever. They had

their terms for them. And then you read a passage from an abductee case in the nineties and it's very very similar to something written a thousand years earlier, but we see it through the lens of space age technology and travel through the universe.

cultural paradigm. You know, even going back to like the airship flaps of that, you know, eighteen nineties, or you had these like weird dirigible looking things like propellers and weird things like that. You know, that was what people were seeing in the sky. And so you know, what

is that It's hard to tell in it. To me, it hints at a lot of things that are potentially really interesting, like something that could potentially pack our perception, or something that is intentionally presenting itself to us in a certain way that we can maybe that we can understand, or that is maybe intentionally trying to hide its own source.

And then when you mix that up with government misinformation and everything else that happens, you kind of have this like absurd tapestry of these stories and it's really hard to make sense of, like what exactly is the reality behind these things? What is that? And I don't think we have any kind of a good answer for that.

I'm talking to Kelly Chase, and now we're going to talk about government disclosure. Kelly, even if our government makes this announcement, everyone seems to have their own definition of what quote unquote disclosure is and what it'll take for them to believe that this is real. I do think on this issue, most people have made up their mind. They don't typically say, well, I'm open. They don't. It's like in today's politics, the vast majority of people are

dug in. It doesn't matter what their candidate says, doesn't matter what he does, They've made up their mind. They're voting for this guy. I find the same thing here in the UFO community. We get a new, great documentary with all this new witnesses that came forward, and people inside the community get even more excited and they feel like, wow, there's even more evidence to support my belief. But people

outside the community just dismiss it. Like everything else. Very rarely is there something that moves the needle or sways people from one side to the other. We did have that back in twenty seventeen with the New York Times article and the videos and all of that. That was truly a watershed moment for this community. But since then I've seen very little that's actually made a difference in

people's core beliefs. So much so, in fact, that you start to realize that disclosure can mean so many things. For some people, I don't even know why they need to have this formal disclosure anyway. I'm not sure we need to hear it from the government for it to be real. For others, it would take the President of the United States to say this is real, show the craft, show the bodies, and then some would still not believe it.

we're relying on somebody else to tell us what's true. And the reality of the UFO phenomenon is that it's everywhere. There have been, you know, millions of sightings around the world by all kinds of people in all walks of life. And sure, maybe the government has some craft and maybe even bodies in some like underground bunker somewhere, but what they can't do is lock up the UFO phenomenon underground, Like they can't own it, they can't possess it, they

can't keep it from us. And there's absolutely nothing that's keeping everyday people from going out and investigating this on their own and deciding what they think that you can't it's part of the nature of our reality. It's a very integral part of human experience that we can see going back thousands of years in various ways and in various forms, and so like, this isn't something that they

can keep from us. And so as much as I support disclosure, and I do think that like fundamentally, if there is such thing as an inalienable right, I think that the right to understand the nature of our reality is perhaps one of the most fundamental and so like, of course, I you know, support transparency and disclosure, but I do worry that like that has become the only conversation in the UFO community that at all, Like, if it doesn't come from the government, if it doesn't have

that stamp of approval, if there isn't some military you know, video that has like a strict provenance, then we don't have like permission to consider it, and I just kind of like reject that idea, and I hope that we're able to reclaim ufology as something separate from the disclosure movement.

there is no evidence. It would have been much stronger for Arrow to come out and just say, you know, there is some things we can't explain, or some things are unknown, but we don't see any direct positive something like that, instead of just a blanket no, not now, I don't even trust you at all. It just made no sense to me. The thing is, this is such a complex issue. It's so much more than I think

most people realize. It's hard because unlike other topics, we can't know the truth, or at least the whole truth. All of this is an unknown and we're just trying to get a little more understanding. It's not like if we find an artifactor, we find something, we can go, oh, here's the answer, as in certain discoveries made in other disciplines you find the answer. Let's say tomorrow morning, you and I find a craft buried in your backyard. Number One,

we wouldn't believe it. Number Two, If we got it checked out and we prove that this metal can't be made here on earth, the vast majority of people would still not believe it. Even then, all of this, all it really does is open up more questions. Who built this, where are they from, Where are they, why are they here? What happened to them? It's not like any of these are simple answers, you know what I'm saying?

and legacy institutions and like authority in general. I think that people are just kind of catching on to the fact that, like, not just with the UFO phomenon, but with a lot of other things that we have been intentionally misled. And so the president can get on television and say almost anything, and half of the country is going to believe him, and the other half is going

to say absolutely not. And so we don't have a good place, like a good We can't even really rely on the government for this sort of like consensus understanding of what our reality is anymore anyways, And so you know, I don't know that our end goal even really should be the president getting on television and confirming this one way or another, because I don't know that that's going to be helpful.

beings of some kind. They could be you know, little monkeys or some sort of thing that we even maybe another you know, branch of humanity in some way, but they may in fact be real. It looks like, now there might be something to it, but immediately we dismissed that. As soon as I heard that, I just literally physically laughed because they kind of made it sound like they were alien in nature, you know, and they have the big heads and the whole thing. So of course, you know,

that's our knee jerk reaction. And I'm knee deep in this stuff. You can imagine how the rest of the world heard of it. They were just like, oh, that's silliness. So it's going to be very hard to overcome these things. And I think even if the president comes out like you're saying, I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing. I mean that the whole world would change, of course. And then what if a president from another country comes out. Does it have the same impact.

How many people in America would change their belief Because the Brazilian president came out and said we have alien bodies and craft. I think that's a low number. You just said that. If our president said a lot of people wouldn't believe. Imagine if another country discloses, because this is a worldwide phenomenon. You're right that they have recovered craft supposedly, and if they do, they'll probably be able

to protect that intellectual property in that technology. But they can't, like you're saying, cover up this phenomenon because it's happening to citizens of the world. Throughout the world, people are dealing with this. They're doing it firsthand and directly, not through a government or anything like that. So the governments of the world can't really truly stop this. As far as we know, We're going to have to stop there for today. We will be back next week with part

two of this interview with Kelly Chase. Thanks so much, Kelly, I really enjoyed this conversation. I appreciate all your information. It's really fantastic. Thanks again, and thank you for listening to Beyond Contact. You can follow me Captain Ron on Twitter and Instagram at CID underscore Captain Ron. Stay connected by checking out Contact intheesert dot com. Stay open minded and rational as we explore the unknown right here on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast am Paranormal Podcast Network.