Episode 113: Joseph Marino, leading expert on The Shroud, unveils its secrets.

to our podcast. Please be aware the thoughts and opinions expressed by the host are their thoughts and opinions only and do not reflect those of iHeartMedia, iHeartRadio, Coast to Coast AM, employees of premier networks, or their sponsors and associates. We would like to encourage you to do your own research and discover the subject matter for yourself. You are listening to Darkbecome Light with Me, Heidi Hollis, iHeartRadio Coach Coach they Am. You're a normal podcast network blocomes in

my show. Remember each week this is the place you go to when you want to learn the latest and mysterious encounters, holly encounters, cryptozoological encounters, and if you or someone you know has experienced anything out of the ordinary and you want to share you want to learn, or you want to comment, or you want to ask anything, go to my main website, which is Heidi Hollis dot com or shadow folks dot com. Tell me your story's give as much detail as you would like. Because of

more details are better. And I mean, we open up the floodgates for anything and everything out of ordinary because it's important to paint a picture of what is going on and what is possible in this world. I mean, how else are we going to learn about this stuff unless we break down these stories. And I mean, if you got photos, I get a lot of people say how do I submit photos or drawings? Just write me

at Heidi Hollis at gmail dot com. How about that or through that website as well, and just you know, I'll take it up. I'll take it, We'll look at it. And you know what, you guys, you are in for a treat today because I have one of the world's top researchers. On the shroud of Turin, that is the

burial cloth of Jesus Christ. There is an image of a man who was obviously crucified, and it's been studied for a very long time, but then it got tested for the time period from which this cloth came from, and it was shown to be that this was actually dated not during Jesus's time, and people are like, it's a fake, it's a fraud. No, no, no. If you've kept up with what occurred after that conclusion, it was shown that it was tested from a repaired section of

the shroud. How did they come to that conclusion. Well, Joseph Marino knows because he and his wife are responsible for that conclusion. So you guys, you've got to hear this story because it's amazing. The story on the shrouded Turn is not over. It is absolutely unexplainable what occurred here, how this image of a man was impressed upon this cloth. Much more testing and much more work needs to be done.

And Joseph Marino, he's going to tell you all about it and his story because it's something you've never heard before. And I know you're going to enjoy him. He's really really insightful and wow, mind blowing stuff. But to be in with you guys, I got a couple of your emails. M yes, I do. I am going to read these things off here and I grab them randomly. I want them to be short, so I look for short ones

and totally I never read these things beforehand. I really try not to and just dive in so you get the raw me when I'm checking these things out and let you just never know what we got. I just love it, all right. Okay, So this first email says, Dear Heidi, I see every evening black orbs and shadow lines in my room. I don't know what they are or what they want. Harry, Hey there, Harry, how's it going. That's interesting. I don't get many people talking about the

black orbs. I personally had an encounter that wasn't very pleasant myself, and being that shadow beings are connected to aliens and vice versa, I mean, it's it's hard to exactly say what these things are, but I could tell you what they have done to myself, and I've heard from others too. They seem very alien because they are perfectly round, right, and they can form rows. They can operate together or solo, right, but they're black. I haven't

seen them personally shape shift or anything like that. But I'll just tell you what happened. Okay. I know I spoke of it here on the program, but I think it was a while ago. So this one night, I was sleeping on my couch. Okay, I was watching television. My college roommate was in the next room that kind of opened up to the living room right there, right. So I'm sleeping and I hear my friend's scream. I'm like,

what you know? And I wake up and I am floating up towards the ceiling and there was this big, big, black like crack in the ceiling. It's so weird. It was like an interdimensional looking thing, right, And I was like, whoa, you know, and I wiggle free and boom, I am dropped from the ceiling onto its futon. It wasn't comfortable, okay,

boom onto the futon. And I literally scurried and I'm crouched and I'm looking up at the ceiling and all in the room, all in the room, the living room, and you know, the TV's on, and it's like lighting up these black orbs okay, and oh, I get chills. And they were just like floating in the middle of

the room. And then they all floated up to the ceiling right and and like lined up like perfect little rows, and the crack closed and and these these black orbs started to fade away right, and and my friend and I were both crouched out on the on the ground and we're like, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, I could still see that, I could still see them, and and we didn't even want to reach up to turn like the light on, to you know, get a better look.

We're just like too scared to raise up because they were some of them were still gathering up onto the ceiling, and um, it was. It was weird. It took a while for them to like saddle and fade, but we could still see this outline, like a kind of transparent outline of them, and we finally just you know, as they faded more, we got the nerve to flick the

light on and was like, what in the heck? It seemed like they were transporting me, um, creating an interdimensional crack of some kind, like pulling time apart and creating

this rift to yank me through. It was really odd and it had a negative vibe to it, very much like shadow beings would, but also mechanical spying even so to say exactly what they are, I've heard of glowing orbs that would take people by surprise because they would be like I don't know what this is about, flying parallel to the ground, going at a very fast speed, or being like these little orby things that kind of hang in the night sky and have a look at

people and people feel like they're probe Like, you know, they're too small to actually house a entity in there. But I mean, we have drones, right, we have drones where we can use a camera to spy and stuff, so you know, maybe these things are kind of like that. But they also seem to have this ability to open up doorways. Okay. Also when you think of the orbs, the ghost orbs that people shows, it shows up in a lot of a lot of photos. They have been

known to spin and to open up portals as well. Okay, there's great imagery out there photos of these things doing that. Like they get together and they pull energy together, and they they're able to do things that gives you the hebe jeebies from head to toe. Yes it does. So I hope that's helpful for you, Harry. I mean, I'm not psychic or guru, but you know, there seems to be that there's a pulling together of energy with these things. So personally, I would bless my space because alien or not.

If you don't want them there in your home, then they shouldn't be there, you know, clear the air. All right, So I want to get to this next one. I don't want to run out of time. There's another short one, all right, and this one comes to us from Robert. It goes Hiidi. I know I've lived past lives. Was wondering if my one true perfect love partner from my past might be again walking this earth and searching for me. Hmm, that's cool. That's a nice, warm, fuzzy thought. I like

that also. I believe animals pets also come back into physical form, but I hear stories of people who come across over to heaven and meet their long lost pets. How long do people and pets stay in heaven before they once again take earthly forms. Well, that's a good question. I like that one, Oh, Robert, all right, you know, I'll tell you. It's like I personally am again. I'm not a psychic, but I've had people come on this program and I wish I could remember names better than

I do. But there was a researcher that came on who was an expert in reincarnation, and he said in Asian countries and other countries who believe in reincarnation, like outright, like I'll see you soon, you'll be back. You know, the proven cases of reincarnation were it was just a few months, like like six months. I think it was the average or something like that of people past loved

ones coming back into human form. Isn't that something? But Western cultures, you know, us people who have these thick skulls who don't like to believe in such things as reincarnation. It's years sometimes decades. Is that something? So because we think that we should wait for others on the other side, that that was literally said by this researcher, that we believe that, well, i'll see you on the other side.

It's like, well, shoot, now I gotta sit here and wait for you to come so we could have a conversation when I could have been reborn already and been your been your baby or something. And it's interesting how they interchange and switch it up like that, you know. Um, you know, one time your your brother and sister, another time your your cousins. You know, it's it's really really interesting the patterns and stuff. So, um, I think it's

fascinating that you know that you've lived past lives. A lot of people question, you know the validity of that, or if you're saying that, you would say something like that. But it was taught before in the Bible. I mean, it's there. I've spoke to you a monk not too long ago who said, well, yeah, that's that's true. You know John the Baptists was Elijah reborn. It's mentioned right there, and it used to be taught in the church. Well, kum bay yah, that's awesome. I'm glad to know that.

But for some reason Western cultures just don't address those things as much as they once did. But we are greater than we are allowed or led to believe. You guys, I don't know why that is, but never questioned the human potential. And also know that God made us the way he did for a reason. We're not perfect, We're flawed. We're meant to fall down, get back up, come back again,

and recycle. It happens. But I think that there's something that's capturing souls and that is hello, hat man, that is stopping the natural progression of our days and times, and you know time is coming to an end. He likes to call himself Satan, well, he's going to play that role and get thrown in the dungeon and kept there. All right, you guys, do you guys stick around because we've got a fabulous show coming up here with Joe Marino. You are listening to Dark Becomes Like with me Hetty Hollis,

iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast. They am para normal podcast network. We'll be right back, welcome back. You are listening to Dark Becomes Lights with me Heidi Hollis on the iHeartRadio and Coach Coast. They am paranormal podcast network. As promised, I have a fabulous guest, Joseph Marino, who has a BA in theological studies and is a long time syndonologist who is one who studies the Shroud of Turin. He has research, written, and lectured extensively on the shrouds nineteen

seventy seven. He became ordained to priesthood in nineteen ninety four, becoming a benedicting monk as a result of his interests in the Shroud. In nineteen ninety seven, Marino received a call from M. Sue Benford, who informed him on her spiritual insights about the Shroud. After many discussions by phone and emails about the shroud and other spiritual matters, he began to experience God in a whole new way. He felt powerfully drawn to leave the monastery to pursue shroud

research and other spiritual paths with Benford. Marino believes that if the shroud can be shown to be the burial cloth of Jesus, it would be an interesting archaeological object. However, he believes that it's more important for the spiritual message it can bring most definitely. So I am excited to introduce my guests, Joseph Marino. How are you doing today there, Joe,

good honey, how are you doing fabulous? I am always trying to follow and keep top of the latest research when it comes to the Shroud of Turen And it's an honor, honestly to be talking to one of the leading researchers on this. But your background is so diverse, I mean, you want to tell us a little bit about how you became the person you are as you are currently, because it's it's quite the story. Well, I grew up in Saint Louis, Missouri, and I was born

and raised a Catholic. I was the youngest of five, and I was very into sports, both playing officiating, following professional teams in Saint Louis that sort of thing, and kind of thought at some point, I you know, they they always kind of recommend do something that you likes. You don't have to work a day in your life.

I'll do something in sports. Probably wasn't quite good enough to be, you know, professional athletes, so you know, you start thinking about being a writer or broadcaster or that sort of thing. And you know, so I, you know, did did a broadcasting class at uh in College and that sort of thing. But it's it's not as easy as it looks, you know. But yeah, and I was into into music a lot. Just I don't didn't play anything.

My dad was a musician, but but he didn't leave many me any genes to to learn how to play an instrument. Um. So, you know, I like the Beatles and the Moody Blues, and I still do to this day. There's still my my two go to bands. And um, I saw out of after high school. Um, I went to college for two years. Um after two years, you know, you have to start declaring a major and that sort

of thing. And still wasn't sure what I wanted to do. Um. I had kind of become, you know, an agnostic like many people in those days, in the seventies, and I guess that still happens today, of course. So I got a job with the federal government, working full time for the Veterans Administration, and things seem to be going okay. I played to continue to play basketball after high school

and that thing in men's league and whatnot. And I was kind of sick of academics after my second year of college, and so I took like a three year break from reading anything academic and I pretty much only read the sports page in the comics. Got yeah. And after about three years of that, it's like, oh, you better start getting on the ball. You're in your mid dumb in my mid twenties. You know, I got to

get get going here, you know. So the background having so many different varied interest music, sports, and then all of a sudden year digging into this uh theological life. I mean, how'd that come about? Well, I thought, you know, I can remember so clearly. In nineteen seventy two, the National Collegiate Championship Basketball Championship was in Saint Louis that year, I just watched it on TV, and I thought, isn't

this great? And then it's like I heard this void, almost exterior voice say to me, but it was really me saying to myself, isn't there more to life than basketball? But I still didn't do anything with that for about three or three or four more years after that, and finally I thought, you know, I you know, I'd thrown off my Catholic background, but I thought, you know, there's got to be something to you know, in religion or

philosophy that can give me more meaning to life. So I started with a clean slate and just started reading anything about philosophy and religion, even non Christian religions. And I remember in seventy seven, finally, about five years after I graduated from high school, when i'd go to a bookstore, I'd always go to the philosophy and religion section, and I saw a book with a kind of an odd face on the cover, and it said, is this the

face of Jesus Christ? And it was a book about the shot of Turin, which I had never heard of, even though I had gone to Catholic school. I mean, we learned about Veronica's Vale, which is really a legend. It's not in the Bible, but supposedly some lady named Veronica had had a cloth and she met Jesus on his road to go golf and press the linen to his face, and it supposedly she got an image. And

you know, long story shot on that. That's probably probably a story that was invented to explain that there was a linen cloth with an image on it. Now, the story, both the book and the story of Ronica only deal with the face, but the Shroud of Turin actually has

a full front and back image. You know, he's about six feet tall, so you see the full front image and you see the full back image because the cloth is like fourteen feet long, so the body was presumably laid on, you know, one half of it, and then the other longer part of the cloth is big enough to fold over so that it covers fully the front and the back. So I took that book home that night and read it in one sitting, and I want to tell you, I was just fascinated. There wasn't a

lot of evidence back then. I mean, it was the cloth was fairly well known in Europe, but not really not in the United States. I mean, there were only a couple books available in the United States, a few articles here and there, but based on the evidence back then, and that was only about a year year and a half before the group of American scientists called STIRP actually went over to touring and studied it for five days. And after that as when we got the big explosion

of information that we still deal with today. But based on the scant evidence, relatively scant at the time, I thought the cloth that had a good chance of being authentic. So, um, you know, I looked at the bibliography and started, uh, you know, looking for articles and more books and things, and started keeping a collection. And you know, I started out with about seven articles and I thought, wow, look

at this collection I'm getting it was virtually nothing. Today I probably do have one of the top one or two personal English language collection of shrawd materials in the world. Wow, so my whole basement is practically a shroud museum. Absolutely divinely guided. It sounds like, I mean, just like this was not popular in the United States and it inspired you, like down to the core. That's yeah. It just totally

changed my life. It actually helped. It was a vehicle for me to actually come back, at least temporar early to my Catholic roots, and within about three years I joined a monastery in Saint Louis, where I managed to survive for eighteen and a half years. Yeah, that's amazing, eighteen and a half years. But I don't regret it because what happened was in nineteen ninety seven, I received a call from a woman from Ohio and she said that she claimed that she was having these um interactions

with Jesus and stuff. And I'm open to that. I mean, you got to be careful. You can't. I mean, you can't accept at face value when people say those things. You got to investigate it on a case by case basis. And she sounded normal, she didn't sound crazy, and so

we started talking on the phone. She said she had survived childhood cancer and she was a weightlifter and but we, you know, we had we talked on the phone about spiritual things in the Shroud and we kind of just you know, made it a connection on the phone, and she was she said she had seen a program on the Shroud on TV and she wanted to learn more. And um, you know, we continued to talk and she actually sent me a picture from an article that was

written about her in her hometown of Columbus. She had she was running two businesses out of her home. She had two young kids, um her her husband had left her a couple of years before that, and so she sent me an article that had a color picture of her in it. And you know, I had no idea what she looked like, how old she was. But we you know, we just had a good kind of spiritual

connection right after that. And when when she sent me the article, I opened it and I can remember my exact words, which were, oh, because here was this too much to my surprise, here was this young looking, vivacious woman which did not match to Mike. You know, she said she had survived cancer, she was a powerlifter, and that picture of her just did not match to that at all. Another life changing moment. We gotta get to our next break, Joe. We're gonna be right back to finish.

This is amazing, all right, You guys, don't forget to go to Heidi Hollis dot com or shadow Folks dot com. Tell me your stories, tell me what's on your mind out there, and tell me what your thoughts are about the shroud of tourist. As we continue our conversation with Joseph Marino. All right, you are listening to Dark Becomes Light with me Heidi Hollis, I Hurt Radio and Coach Coach Damn Paranormal Podcast. Stick around, Okay, right back, welcome back.

You are listening to Dark Becomes Blight with me Heidi Hollis on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast Ay am

Tera Normal podcast Network. I have a Joe Marino and he is telling us all about his really inspiring journey going from a sports loving music playing I'm sorry enthusiast, you wish that you could play, Yeah, exactly, but you didn't inherit that And then you came across this mother of two, single mother of two who has this fascination with a shrouded toura as yourself, which is a Sue Benford, and you're you're impressed by her photo and knew you were in trouble. Huh yeah, yeah, yeah, oh just came

out and it's like, oh, I wasn't expecting this. And you know when you make a connection on one level with a person and then you add another, you know, big level like that. Yeah, you know you kind of know off the bat that things could cook, you know. Yeah, well, how do you say Benedictine Benedictine monk. Yeah, yeah, that's um, that that's that's you know, surprising. I mean I think

it surprises a lot of people. But you know, from more recent research myself and looking into uh various topics, I've found that there's a lot of former nuns and priests who you know, start another life, you know, as one phase of their life and they move on to another. Um. So how did things uh progress between the two of you. Well, um, she um actually asked if she could come out and visit me, and um, you know she did, and we eventually even met with my my personal spiritual director, who

was a diocesan priest. UM and I still when I go back to Saint Louis usually every Christmas, I get together with him. And he was impressed by her too. But you know, he was advising me to be cautious and I think I was. And Sue came out several times and and you know, it wasn't it wasn't very long before I thought, you know, and we were connecting really a lot on the shroud level in terms of wanting to do research and stuff, and we had ideas

for research and whatnot. And so she came out several times, and you know, even by say, by the second time, I was I already began to think that, you know, I could be in for a life change. And just weird things started happening. Some people call him godwink, some people call him synchronicities. But I want to tell you I just for almost every day for about a year, strange things would would happen that seemed to me, seemed

to be drawing us closer together. And eventually I just my heart and conscience, even though it it surprised me as much as anybody else, my heart and conscience began to tell me that I actually needed to to leave the monastery and be with her. And that's what I ended up having happening. And I never regretted it. I mean, it was tough. Um, you know, I'd expected to be in that monastery for the rest of my life and everything.

But I remember the when I when I kind of reached the stage where I knew that I needed to do that. I want to see my spiritual director by myself, Father Tom, And I said, you know, he was kind of sup word of of it, and I was really kind of hoping he'd come up with a reason that I shouldn't do it, because I was kind of apprehensive about taking that step. And so eventually I knew I

had to do it, and I've never regretted it. I mean, I eventually I lost Sue to cancer in two thousand and nine, but we ended up doing really really significant SHROUD work that we would have never been able to have been to have accomplished. We stayed apart, I would say, honestly. I mean, you and Sue did research that saved SHROUD research to continue to this day. I mean, I wish that my show was longer sometimes that we could dive

into all the details. But tell us about, you know how that came about, because so you've you've are so well published, and you're so well researched when it comes to the Strate of Turan and yourself and Sue quite the team you it. Tell us about some of the articles that you put out and how you helped turn a lot of heads and minds about you know, where the research should go. Okay, well, that's STIRP team that

I mentioned in nineteen seventy eight. They studied the shroud for five days around the clock, and their main mission had been to try to figure out how the image got on the cloth, and they had the best science and technology available at the time. They had guys from NASA and Los Almost National Laboratory, Sandy National Laboratories. I mean, these guys, and there were a few women on a team. I don't want to give them short shrift, but um, you know, a lot of the scientists on a team

built bombs and help put men into space. And these were bright guys, you know. But they couldn't figure out how the image got on the shroud. So the evidence seemed to be pointing that it was unnatural event of some kind, and it had all the wounds. The man on the shroud has all the wounds that the Gospels described as having happened to Jesus. So there's that big Jesus connection. And Stirp concluded that it was not the product of an artist. Okay, they didn't they didn't know

how it got on the cloth. So from seventy eight to eighty eight, you know, the world was above buzz with the idea that the shroud was probably authentic and then in nineteen eighty eight the church allowed a carbon fourteen dating radiocarbon dating, and that's a whole story in itself. I wrote an eight hundred page book on how things got screwed up with the test, and I put additional entries after the book was published, and those are available

online on my academia page. There's just tons of information that things were just royally screwed up. But the bottom line was that the three labs said that the shroud dated to twelve sixty to thirteen ninety eight D, which means obviously that would be too late to have been Jesus's cloth. And by that time I had been studying the shroud eleven years, and I I just sort of knew that something had to be wrong with that C

fourteen tests, and I wasn't sure at that time. So once I got together with Sue at one point, I came out into Ohio and in nineteen ninety eight, so about another ten years passed after the CEA fourteen, and during that period everybody was saying, oh, you know, the shroud was a fake and this and that, and I guess it was around two thousand year two thousand Sue got one of her kind of spiritual insights and was told that the that the area where they took the

Sea fourteen sample from was a repair. So since I had such a great collection, she had me get out some of the better pictures of that corner and we started looking at it and stuff, and we thought we could see some um abnormalities in that area in different kind of the weavel would look different in places and stuff like that. So we took some high quality photos and she literally took the photos to a tailor downtown

in downtown Columbus. He was a French a European trained UM taylor, and she showed him the picture and did not tell him that it was from the shroud, And she says, what can you tell me about this photo? And basically he said, um, well, it looks like there's been some manipulation in the area. And we said, ah, that that sounds interesting. So then she sent the same photos to a couple of world renowned linen Um companies, one in in Um, Ireland and one in Albany, New York.

And again we did we didn't tell him that it that it that it was the shroud. So they were blinded to it, and each each of those two also independently said in you know, different worlds, that basically that there was a repair of some kind. So we had three independent textile experts who were blinded to the fact that it was the shroud, all who have said that

they thought they were repairs in the area. So there was going to be a big international conference in or Viato, Italy in August of two thousand and Before we had that idea about that, we hadn't planned to attend. But once we got that idea, we said, you know, we got to go to this conference and present the paper. So we did, and you know, several people told us

that it was really the hit of the conference. And Barry Schwartz, who was the documenting photographers first Start and as the editor and publisher of the biggest and best shroud Side, which is shroud dot com, if you if your listeners go there, they better bring some food and snacks and drinks because you could spend the rest of your life there. Um. So Barry put it up there.

And one of the guys on the Start team, whose name was Ray Rogers, he was the chemist, the head of the chemist Chemistry aspect of the testing for STIR. He had kind of gotten out of Shroud Research. He had accepted the nineteen eighty eight dating results, but he kept up with Barry site, and when he saw the paper on Barry side, he kind of he called Barry up and read him the Riot Act. Why are you publishing this nonsense? These people are part of the lunatic fringe.

I can prove them, prove him wrong in five minutes, and Barry's as well. Well, Right, do what you need to do, because it was so fascinating that he was literally he had samples from nineteen seventy eight from the main part of the cloth. Okay, we got to hold it right there because I gotta get to our next break. You guys, you are listening to Dark Becomes Blight with me Heidi Hollis on the iHeart Radio and Coast to Coast am para normal podcast network. Stick around so we'll

be right back with Lord Joe Marino. Welcome back. You are listening to Dark Becomes Light with me Heidi Hollis on the iHeart Radio and Coast to Coast a am para normal podcast network. I have Joe Marino here, who is sharing about honestly probably one of the greatest finds in Shadow Terren's history, and not allowing the nineteen eighty eight death to stand. And I watched to continue where you left off there, Yeah, because it's death. Fascinating how

this came to be. Yeah. So Ray Rogers thought that he could prove our theory wrong because he had samples from the main part of the cloth from nineteen seventy eight, and he had been given another point some samples that were right next to the C fourteen sample area, so he could compare the two and if they were exactly the same, that would show that there was no repair. So he got out his microscope and Barry said he called.

He called Barry back about an hour and a half after he said it would take him five minutes, and he says, I can't believe it. I think they're right. He looked at both samples and he found that the area in the C fourteen corner was chemically different than the main part of the shroud. And then later on he was actually given a leftover sample from the actual Sea fourteen piece and that they had the same and they had the same characteristics as the you know area

next to it. Which he had previously had, so they were different. And then he found he found like a dye and he found a splice linen and cotton thread, which means that cotton was used to repair that area and they used dye to make the color look exactly like the original. So then that kind of makes sense because a big chunk had been a big portion of

that corner had been taken out for relics. And if you know, if you have a piece of linen and you have a big piece of it taken out, if you don't repair it or restore it, it unravels, So it makes sense that at least some repair work was done on it to tidy up the corners and where

where it was cut. And Ray Rogers wrote a peri viewed scientific article in a high end chemical journal called Thermal Chemica Acta in January two thousand and five, and he said that that sample in the C fourteen area was different, and he gave some other details that we don't have time to go into now, but basically he said that the C. Fourteen sample was not valid for

being able to determine the dating of the shrouds. So, in other words, that twelve to sixty to thirteen ninety date cannot be accepted because there was apparently it was a mixture of first century cloth and sixteenth century cloth. So that kind of jump started research to a degree back uh into the more research again. I mean people hadn't stopped completely, but that it really did give it a boost. And and you know it's been full steam ahead.

And since then there's been statistical studies that show that the what the labs did with the data was a little um shall we say, manipulative. They didn't they didn't use all the dates, they threw out the bad dates and when they constructed their statistics to come up with a twelve sixty to thirteen ninety date with supposedly confidence, right, So wow, that's that's wild. I mean, all because Sue, your wife had a vision and and that kind of gets skipped over. Do you find uh in the research?

You know, like you two having brought the attention to have a look at that, you know what you what you discovered and uh, but they like the nuts and bolts. They don't like spiritual insight. But God still talks everybody and this is still around and it's like that is uh, it's so amazing. And I've seen a couple of shows that has you and Sue speaking of your discovery and getting the credit that you deserve, but not getting the opportunity to speak to uh it having come from a vision, right, Yeah,

people do have problems with that. Um, you know, it's just it's just one of those things of human nature that some things make us uncomfortable. And you know people that supposedly get spiritual insights or yeah, or one of them, and so yeah, people pretty just pretty much ignore that. It's amazing you having the background that you that you do as a as a monk and being open to that.

I mean, that's that's inspiring right there, because I'm a firm believer that you know, we all get guidance and you know, it's whether we pay attention to it or not. And because she did and you both having the know how and understanding of the shout a trend that this was something important to pursue. And yeah, I mean do you find though too that I have that uh, you know, it's still having to prove to people that the carbon dating was was wrong. I mean do you feel like

sort cover that up, patch that up? Yeah? Um, there's tons of still tons of YouTube videos and all sorts of things where people do not want to have an authentic shroud because, um the repercussions of that are scary for them if especially if they're agnostic or atheists. Um, so they do everything in their power to try to

u prove it. And nobody has been able to come up with a reasonable explanation of how that image got on the class So they just they give a lot of half truths and falsehoods and continue to try to say it's nonsense. That's a shame because it is a common uh discussion honestly, and I'm just like, I don't understand. Uh, you know, the erasing um Christ having been such a huge marker on the history of this planet is absolutely

in motion all the time. I mean, it's BC is no longer before Christ, It's before the common Era, you know, it's BC. You know, you know, it's like, why do that? And one of my favorite arguments I would love to tell my friends who you know, don't believe Jesus is it was a big deal. I'm like, oh, what's the what's the year again? You know, we we marked our calendars our years to the day of him. Having passed

because he wasn't is a big deal. Yeah, and you'll probably have noticed, like I have that it's amazing how how many videos and articles and different sites try to put forth the idea that Jesus never even existed. I mean they did, that's how far they take it. Um, you know, and that's kind of silly because I mean, he's he's probably the best attested ancient figure in history, but because of the religious connections, people try to totally

erase him from history and say he never existed. But you know, the main obviously those are kind of people not in the main I guess there's a few in the mainstream, but um yeah, it's just it's just the world we live in today that people don't want to real Shroud and they don't want to real us either. Yeah. It's just uh yeah, it's a it's a shame. But first first name out of their mouths when they're in trouble though, you know, my goodness, you know, where is

the where's the research going? Now? I mean you're always updating something. I think I got to notice on my phone just now Joe Marino updated something on Academia dot edu. I mean, you are constantly working, you're constantly uh, you know, pulling in new facts and figures. Where are things going now? Yeah,

that's a good question. I mean people are obviously, um wondering if if any new testing will be allowed, whether there'll be another C fourteen test or I kind of doubt if they'll ever be another C fourteen test, um, partly because we don't you know, we haven't worked out all the bugs on the old on that system, on the C fourteen testing already, and then there's new new dating methods out and those need a lot of work too.

But I've heard that even though Pope Francis has background in chemistry, um, my sources tell me that there'll be no new testing as long as he's Pope. But you know he's I think he's what eighty six or something now, and you know, I don't know how much longer he'll be around. But perhaps the next the next Pope will

allow testing. But you know, one of the amazing things about the in my eight hundred page book is the fact that Cardinal Ratzinger, who became Pope Benedict the sixteenth, he actually had allowed, he had approved rather uh stirp to have two weeks with the Shroud, including a C fourteen test, and a lot of the politics and backstabbings and agenda's got in the way, and STIRP was eliminated from not only doing their new test of multidisciplinary aspects,

but they weren't even allowed to be involved in the C fourteen test, which was part of the reason there was a fiasco there. That's a shame. Well, Joe, we've got to wrap it up. How how can people get ahold of your books, your works? What's your website? My website is homestead dot com Slash new Vista's all right, Well, I want to thank you so much for coming on the program today. This was really insightful, inspiring. Oh I

enjoyed it. Thanks for having me for sure. Now be sure to go to Amazon dot com and look for Joseph G. Marino for his twenty twenty updated new version of his book and his other book. All Right, you guys, don't forget to go to Heidi Hollis dot com or shadow folks dot com. Tell me your stories, tell me what's going on out there in the world. Tell me your thoughts, your questions, your experiences. I don't care. Throw it my way, and we will take a look at

it and dissect it. Because every other show, what do we do. We take your emails and your phone calls if you care to jump on an interview. I'm just joking you guys never ever do that, so you're welcome. Be sure to follow me on social media at one Heidi Hollis. That is Twitter, TikTok, Facebook, Instagram, everything but YouTube, which is just Kidi Hollis. All right, and be sure to go to the Outlanders Comic dot com for my paranormal comic strip. We have come to the bottom of

another fabulous program. You have been listening to Dark Becomes Light with me Heidi Hollis on iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast ay AM Paranormal Podcast Network. We'll see you next time. Hey, thank for everybody. Goodbye. Well, if you like this edition of Dark Comes Light, wait till you hear the next one. You've been listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network.