Welcome to the Bar Exam Toolbox podcast. Today, we're excited to have therapist Angela Corbett here with us to talk about handling anxiety when studying for the bar exam and on test day. Your Bar Exam Toolbox host today is Alison Monahan, and typically, I'm with Lee Burgess. We're here to demystify the bar exam experience, so you can study effectively, stay sane, and hopefully pass and move on with your life.
Together, we're the co creators of the Law School Toolbox, the Bar Exam Toolbox, and the career- related website CareerDicta. I also run The Girl's Guide to Law School. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review on your favorite listening app, and check out our sister podcast, the Law School Toolbox podcast. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to reach out to us. You can always reach us via the contact form on BarExamToolbox.com, and we would love to hear from you.
With that, let's get started. Welcome back to the Bar Exam Toolbox podcast. Today we're excited to have therapist Angela Corbett here with us to talk about handling anxiety when studying for the bar exam and on test day. Welcome, Angela.
Thank you. I appreciate it. I'm happy to be here.
Oh, I'm so excited to have you. Well, to start us off, can you just give our listeners a little bit of information about your background and your work, just for some context?
Yeah, absolutely. So, I am a licensed clinical social worker, and I also own and operate a group practice in the Tampa Bay area, a mental health group practice. And that is called TrueCandor Behavioral Health. I've been working in this field of mental health since 2011, which kind of blows my mind, because I don't feel like I'm that old, but I've been at this for a while.
And if people want to learn more about you and reach out, how can they do that?
Yeah, they can go to my website at www.TrueCandor.com and fill out a contact form, and then I will get back to them.
Awesome. Well, let's start out with some basics here. What is anxiety and how can it manifest in a high-stress environment like studying for or taking the bar exam?
Yeah, absolutely. So, anxiety is a natural response to a perceived threat. And I say "perceived threat" because it doesn't always have to be something that's happening physically, in front of us. Sometimes it can be mentally, something that we feel like is going to be detrimental to us. And in general, it's a feeling of dread, fear, or uneasiness, and it manifests both physically and mentally.
A lot of people really struggle with the physical symptoms like racing heartbeats, shaky hands, feelings of shortness of breath, that sense of impending doom in the pit of their stomach, to name a few.
To be honest, that describes kind of everybody who's ever studied for the bar exam, I think.
Yeah, probably. I wouldn't be surprised at all. I would not be surprised.
I think that's one of the tricky things here, is, this is a really high stakes exam, it is really stressful. And then I think it's stressful for everyone, but then you have certain people for whom it's even more stressful. Is that right?
Yeah. So, I think for a lot of people going in to take this exam, there's a lot of pressure to pass it, correct? Oh, not for sure. Yeah, not only from them, but sometimes there's pressure from people's parents and families, knowing that this is a really big deal, not only for my future, but for the future of my family or my kids or whatever.
So, taking all of that into this really important exam, particularly one that you have been studying for months and months, sometimes years that's going to create anxiety for anybody.
Alright. Well, first let's talk about handling anxiety during the actual preparation. So, for most people, they're studying probably around two months. If they've just gotten out of school, they graduate in May, the exam is in July, for example - they're studying full-time for those two months. Other people might be working and studying. They might be studying for a longer period of time, less intensively.
But if somebody knows that they're prone to anxiety - either they're diagnosed or they just know this - what do you think they need to be thinking about during bar prep?
Yeah, that is a great question. I would say the most important bar prep coping skills at this point are going to be giving yourself plenty of time, pacing, and lots of balance in your life. I've had law students, I've had medical students in my practice before, and my concern is always when they come in and that's all they're doing, is studying from sunup to sundown with no breaks, no fun, no living life in between.
And that can really add to the snowball of anxiety and pressure and just feeling like, "This is the end of the world if I don't pass." So, they just really lose perspective. So I think it's super important to pace yourself, still show up in your life, go have fun, go to the beach on the weekends, go to the movies, get good rest, those types of things.
If you know that you're somebody who's already prone to anxiety, then you're going to have to work extra hard at balancing your studying and your real life, so that you don't end up completely dysregulated and overwhelmed when the day of the exam actually shows up.
I want to talk a little more about that because as you're describing this, I'm thinking, okay, I completely agree with you, but if you look at the schedules for some of these bar prep companies - not us, but other people who are telling people what to do - they literally have them working 12 hours a day, every day, seven days a week. Do you think that is a healthy way to prepare for this test?
Absolutely not. Your nervous system is not meant to operate on such a high level of alertness over a long period of time. Our nervous systems are "fight or flight" systems, which is typically what gets activated when we are feeling stressed, when we're studying, when we're sitting down to take the test. The point of our nervous system is a protective mechanism to keep us safe during short intervals. Our ancestors were being stalked by a saber-toothed tiger, right?
And we need to be able to get up and get out of there very quickly. And so, all of these functions happen within our body once we get activated - our heart rate accelerates, adrenaline's pumping, our digestive system shuts down. Everything is focused on getting us to safety, and that's totally fine. That's actually what we want to happen when we're actually encountering a dangerous predator or a dangerous threat.
However, when we are operating in that heightened state for long periods of time, we are depleting our adrenal glands, we are setting ourselves up for terrible sleep, we're not recovering or recuperating. And for a lot of people, this can be the beginning of an actual anxiety disorder. We have neural pathways that are created in our brains, and once we travel down repeat behaviors again and again, those neural pathways really get cemented.
And it's very easy to go back to that heightened state, even when you're not studying for the bar exam later. You feel stressed, it's triggered. It goes down that same neural pathway of, "What do I do when I'm stressed? I get really anxious and really activated and I do these certain things and I have to figure it all out." And it can become a default response. So, we don't want anybody studying for 12 hours, seven days a week. That is a recipe for disaster, both short-term and long-term.
That is so interesting because I am thinking back to my first semester of law school, and during the exam period I had set aside eight hours to sleep, but I wasn't able to sleep. I'd lay awake for four hours at night, spiraling and thinking about all the stuff that I'd been learning that day. And after three weeks, only three weeks of this, maybe even two weeks, two to three weeks of this, I literally ended up clinically depressed.
And that was something that got me into therapy, thankfully - best decision I ever made. I definitely believe that there are these physical things that are happening, and once they get laid down into a track, you may have problems.
So, if people are listening to this and they're saying, "Okay, this all seems reasonable, but how am I going to pass the exam if I'm not studying 12 hours a day?" - what advice do you have for them to take that step back and say, "Okay, I'm going to go against the conventional wisdom here and do something that I think is going to work better"?
Yeah. So, I think one of the most important things to remember is the way that our brains retain information can either work against us or work for us.
So when you're studying for 12 hours a day and you're not resting, you're probably not eating well, you're not exercising, you're not doing all of these things to take care of your physical body - your brain is not going to retain the information as optimally as it could if you were to study for shorter durations of time and did all of these other things to take care of yourself.
The likelihood that you're going to retain and remember what you just read over for the last eight hours is going to be vastly improved if you're well rested, if you're fed, if you're eating all of the macronutrients that your brain actually needs to be able to process information; if you're sleeping, where a lot of our memories and information and data gets reconciled from the day before; and if you're socializing, if you feel supported, if you feel empowered,
if you feel like, "Okay, I can do this. I am ready for this." That mindset translates into much better testing outcomes. So, for those who are willing to go against the conventional wisdom, I would bet money that they will probably still perform as well, if not better, than their counterparts who are literally pouring over this material for 12 hours a day, and then essentially neglecting their physical and their mental health needs.
So, I don't think there's much to lose by actually taking care of yourself.
Yeah, I agree. And I think oftentimes people are doing really passive work in those 12 hours too. So they're just sitting there watching a video and thinking, "Oh my gosh, I really hate this. I wish I could go outside, but I can't because I have to finish the video." And it just becomes this downward spiral. I think for a lot of people, it leads to burnout, they're not retaining the information. When I talk to people who haven't passed, I hear a lot of the same things.
And a lot of the time it is, "Yeah, I knew this wasn't working, but I just felt like I had to do it. People just told me to stick with the program and I tried to do that, but I didn't remember any of it." And it's like, well, okay, you've got to do something different here. Do you have any tips for people if they are starting to feel like they're spiraling down and things are starting to feel really unmanageable and the stress is really getting to them?
Absolutely. So this is where the therapist me... I'm like, "Yes, let's talk about coping skills. Let's talk about how to regulate our nervous systems when we feel like we are just spiraling and losing control." So, first and foremost, as therapists, when we have new people come into us, we always assess for the basic self-care needs. Like how many hours are you sleeping, how many meals are you eating, how much water are you drinking, how much exercise are you getting?
It seems so basic, but it makes such a huge difference in our ability to manage stress. So, if all four of those things are being taken care of, our resiliency just shoots up. We can handle a lot more when we are hydrated, fed, well rested, right? So, first and foremost, if you're starting to feel like this is becoming unmanageable, I would really encourage you to check in and see how well you're taking care of yourself.
And if you need to take a break, if you need to get to bed a couple of nights earlier, I think that is a great place to start. Now, that's easier said than done for a lot of people, particularly if they are struggling with anxiety. So sometimes those of us that struggle with anxiety have to use some additional tools to help regulate, so that we can rest and we can eat. Sometimes when people are really anxious, they lose their appetite, which makes sense.
Again, if you go back to the model of our nervous system and what it's there for, it's there to protect us and keep us moving. You're not going to stop and pick berries off the bush if you're being chased by predator.
No, I'm going to be running as fast as possible.
Exactly. Eating is not at the top of your priority list when you're that stressed. So that makes sense. But again, we can do some things to help ourselves. So, first and foremost, I regularly recommend to people having some type of mindfulness practice.
For some people that's meditation, or guided meditation, which I like to put out there, particularly for my anxiety sufferers, because just sitting in silence if you're already feeling really anxious and stressed, will sometimes just lead to thoughts just racing, and it's not really helpful. So, guided meditations can be really helpful if you go on YouTube or if you download an app and let somebody walk you through a meditation and relaxation exercise. For me, that's the only way I can meditate.
I can't just sit there and try to clear out my brain. I'm like, "I have anxiety; it does not work." So, guided meditation. Yoga can also be really helpful because it's a meditative practice, plus you're incorporating body movements, and a lot of what you're doing while you're doing yoga is elongating the muscles, so you're stretching, you're releasing tension. Even without thinking about it, you are downregulating your nervous system.
Some people don't have time to meditate or do yoga, so some of the things that they can do instead would be utilizing breath work. I recently found a really cool breathing technique that I think works better than box breathing. And it's when you breathe in and then you do the Valsalva maneuver. If you're a weightlifter, you know what that is. You basically breathe into your diaphragm and then you hold it like you're getting ready to sneeze.
And then you hold that for about five to 10 seconds, and then you slowly exhale. That lowers your blood pressure and your heart rate immediately. And that can really help reset your nervous system. I can feel
that working as we did it.
Yeah, it's amazing. That's become my new go-to. And then obviously, if you're somebody who's really struggling, I can't help but plug therapy. That is literally what we're here for. So, if you feel like this is taking over and you're having a difficult time turning off the worry, turning off the anxiety, turning off the pressure, being able to speak to friends or family, get some support.
Or if you're really finding that people aren't saying the right things, maybe having a session or two with a therapist to help you reframe your thoughts could be really helpful. Those are just a few of the things.
No, we hear some people who talk to friends and family, and they seem to always say well-meaning but not helpful things, like, "Well, you're so smart. I'm sure you'll pass." It's like, that is not helpful.
No. No. As therapists, a lot of what we're going to be working on is decatastrophizing, helping people remember this is not the end of the world. You can take this exam again. You will learn from it if you don't pass it the first time. This is not the end of your story. I agree, I have experience where I've tried to talk to friends and family about things, and I'm like, "That was not helpful." Although I am lucky because I have a lot of therapist friends, so a lot of times they get it right.
Yeah. But the things that people like your parents think are helpful are probably
"But you've always been so smart." It's like, "Okay, great. You just increased the pressure." How should someone know if they should think about postponing the exam? If things really aren't going well and they're starting to really be in a very bad place, a lot of people try to push through that and force themselves to do this. Speaking as a therapist, is there a point where you might just say, "You know what? Maybe this is not the right time"?
Yeah, so we look at clinical significant impairment, which basically means that the symptoms that you're having are affecting not only your quality of life but your ability to function, and we typically measure that by a two-week span. So, if for two weeks you are not able to sleep, your appetite has been horrible, maybe you're drinking more, maybe you're prone to crying spells, you're feeling depressed - that is a good sign that we need to push this off.
It's going to be normal to have bad days, but if you're having a string of bad days for multiple weeks, that lets us know that this is clinically significant and something has to change. I would say a rule of thumb, if you're feeling really crappy for at least two weeks, maybe consider postponing the exam and giving yourself more time, focusing on increasing some of your coping ability, or making lifestyle changes that will support you being able to study, but also having balance.
That makes a lot of sense, because like you said, everyone's going to have a bad day, but yeah, if it's going on for weeks and getting worse and worse, that's probably something you need to think about.
Yeah. A lot of times our friends and family are the first to notice and sometimes they'll point it out to us, like, "You've seemed really off lately. Are you okay?" That's a good sign too that maybe I need to reconsider how I'm approaching this, if other people are noticing how much I'm struggling.
And like we said, it's not going to be fun for anybody, but I think there's a level of where it gets to actual impairment that people should be paying attention to. Alright. Well, let's switch gears a little bit now and talk about test day. We talk to so many students who struggle with test anxiety. What is this and what problems can it cause?
Yeah. So, test anxiety, leading up to the test, that's a D-Day, right? Everything that I have poured into this is riding on my performance today, right now. And that is an immense amount of pressure and stress. And so, I think one of the things that we have to remember going into testing day is that you are going to feel stressed out.
If the expectation is, "I'm going to develop some type of superhuman, where I don't feel anxious while taking this test" your expectation is probably not going to be met. You've poured a lot of time, energy, schooling, money into this, so it is very important. And so we're going to accept that this is a big deal, right? Knowing that, we're going to do some of the things that we need to do to take care of ourselves that day. So again, we're going to go back to hydrating.
We're going to go back to making sure we've had a really good meal. Maybe we avoid caffeine or stimulants that day if it's something that exacerbates our anxiety. I know some people do need to take medication to help them focus throughout the test, but we probably don't want to layer taking a prescription stimulant with caffeine that day. We're going to feel really anxious and jittery. We want to make decisions that are going to support our physical well-being as we go into testing.
And then we also want to really work on our mindset. Again, this is an important test and we don't want to minimize how much energy has been put into it. But it's also not the end of the world if you don't pass it. Is it disappointing? Yes. Is it gut-wrenching for some? Absolutely. Is it life-altering? No. You have the ability to get back into studying, maybe get some tutoring, reaching out to the Law School Toolbox and getting some one-on-one tutoring and coaching.
There're things that you can do so that you can sit for the bar exam again and have a better outcome. So, that is really important to keep perspective, because if we are telling ourselves that this is the end of the road for us, then the pressure is going to be unbearable and that can affect our performance, versus keeping perspective that this is really important. I want to pass the first time around, but if I don't, I am going to come back and take this again.
This is not the end of the story for me.
And I think that's so important. We talk to people sometimes who say, "I've never failed anything in my life." I'm like, "Well, you know what? You're still here talking to me. We'll figure this out. You can make this happen. You got through law school." And I do think for some people their job is riding on this, particularly if it's not the first time that they failed it. And that's a huge source of stress. But again, there are other jobs in the world. I think the perspective piece is so key.
And I'm very happy you brought up the caffeine piece. I remember we had one student who, her strategy was that she would drink so much coffee, or I can't remember what she was drinking before the exam until she would literally throw up. And we're just like, "Why does this seem like a good idea to you?"
Yeah, doesn't seem helpful at all.
No, and she's like, "That's just how I cope." And we're like, "I feel like there may be better coping mechanisms out there than drinking so much Red Bull before the test that you literally vomit." I don't know, call me crazy.
It doesn't seem like a winning strategy here.
No. Sometimes people come to us, and they failed multiple times and they're telling us things and I'm like, "Huh."
I wonder why?
I wonder why, right? I think the anxiety piece I see a lot, and a lot of people are getting accommodations and things. But I think having anxiety also makes it difficult to make certain decisions and trust the process. And so, we see people just doing these kind of predictable patterns. It's the same thing on the test day. And we're just like, "Oh man, I feel for you, but this has to change."
Yeah. You hit the nail on the head. Anxiety can tell us that this is a bigger... Again, the end of the world if we don't pass, we can't get through this, I'm not going to be able to do this. Anxiety has a very large cognitive portion to it, so not only do we have the physical symptoms that I mentioned earlier in the episode, but there's also the racing thoughts, the irrational thoughts, the rumination, all of those types of things.
Being able to work on reframing some of the thoughts that you're having. There's something in the therapy community we call ANTs, which are automatic negative thoughts. And so, if you're somebody who's maybe anxious or has self-esteem, is already prone to beating themselves up if they make any little mistakes. And on the other hand of low self-esteem is perfectionism.
You talk about the person who's never failed anything in their life, so one small misstep or failure ends up feeling like a huge deal, because they're not allowed to fail. Oftentimes these automatic negative thoughts just creep
"I'm not good enough. I'm never going to be able to do this. I'm going to be a horrible lawyer. I can't even pass the exam. I have no business doing this." We really want to try to identify and neutralize those thoughts. And I say "neutralize" because we're not going into that toxic positivity where we're like, "I am a winner!" Sometimes the distance between this really negative thought about yourself and this positive thought is just too great to be able to canvas.
So we want to bring it back to a more realistic expectation, which is a neutral thought. A neutral thought might be, "I'm doing the best that I can. I'm going to work as hard as I possibly can. And if I don't pass, I'm just going to keep trying." You're not making a judgment about your worth or your ability; you're focusing on what you can control in that moment.
That's what we often talk to students about - that you control the input, you don't control the output. So, all you can do is show up on test day knowing, "Okay, I've done my best. I've given it my best shot." But you don't control whether you pass or not - that's out of your hands. Alright, well, any tips for actually managing stress or anxiety in the test room? I know we talked to people who are like, "My mind just goes blank" and things like that.
Yeah. So, one of the things that I would suggest first and foremost would be, again, to come up with some type of breath work that works well for you. For some people it's box breathing, where you're breathing in through four, holding it, and then breathing out through four. That can be really helpful in managing the adrenaline that's pumping through your system. Or using the Valsalva method, where you're breathing in and then you're holding it.
For other people, it could be just taking a moment to ground themselves and be in the here and now. So that can be sitting up straight, putting your feet on the floor, and just recognizing, "I am here. I'm in this testing room. My back is against the chair, my feet are on the ground, and I'm here in this present moment. I don't have to worry about the outcome, I don't have to worry about the people that I'm disappointing, or myself, if I don't pass. I'm just here to take this test."
Just try to keep it very compartmentalized in that moment. And then one of the other things I was going to suggest - and I'm not quite sure if they are allowed to bring this into the exam room with them, it might be one of those accommodation things - but there is some evidence that putting ice on our pulse points or on our chest can really help slow our heart rate. You know those little ice packs that you can activate, and then it gets cold really fast?
They'll give them to you at the doctor's office or if you're a kid with a bruised knee, they'll crack them open. That might be a good tool to have to just put on your pulse points, put on the back of your neck, put on your chest. The chest and the back of the neck communicate directly with the vagus nerve. That's that nerve that runs from our cranium all the way down that kind of helps regulate our sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system.
So, putting ice in some of those spots can really just help communicate safety to the body, communicate "Okay, we need to calm down and get into our parasympathetic state." So, that is a practical tool if it's allowed, I'm not sure.
It depends on the state. They're probably not going to let you bring an ice pack, but they might let you bring some cold water. My hands are always cold, so as you're talking, I'm imagining doing this with my cold hands.
Yeah. Yeah, no, that's actually a good point. You're right, having a cold water bottle. Especially nowadays, we all have Stanley cups. They're made out of metal, so that could be a good workaround for that. Yeah,
it depends on the state where they let you bring, but some of them do let you bring some things. Well, you mentioned accommodations. I know this might be a little outside the scope because this is typically something some of you talking to a psychologist, I think, or a psychiatrist - I can never remember the difference. But have you seen any specific types of accommodations that might be effective for a test taker with anxiety?
Yeah. So again, those are usually going to be filled out by a clinical psychologist or somebody who's done some type of testing that can say definitively this person has a learning disorder in this particular domain, or whatever the case may be. Some of the things that are really common for accommodations would be increased time, so that way, the time pressure is taken off. Frequent breaks. I know that oftentimes in most professional testing, breaks are not really a given, right?
You're expected to just power through. So for somebody who has anxiety, it might be really helpful for them to take a little mindful break, and breathe and stretch and move and do all those types of things. So that can be a really helpful accommodation. And then I know that a lot of times with, again, professional testing - just in general, not necessarily the bar exam - there's a certain cutoff point that if you don't cancel or reschedule your test, you forfeit the money for it.
But being able to use your accommodation or use your evaluation to ask for an extension, to be able to roll that beat over to the next test if you really do feel like you're not going to be able to get through it. It can be helpful knowing, "I'm not just going to waste my money. I can take the test again at a later date."
Yeah, I recently heard of someone asking for a white noise machine, which I thought was an interesting option that I'd not thought about before. I've seen private rooms, there are all these things. We did a recent podcast with someone who is autistic and he is a head of a disabled lawyers association. He was saying, basically, you just need to think about what might help you.
He's like, "I didn't ever think about the white noise machine, but then they gave it to me once and I realized, 'Oh, this is actually super helpful for me.'"
Yeah, that's actually amazing.
Yeah, I was like, "Oh, that seems so obvious and not a big deal, but I can definitely see that being helpful." Alright, well, Angela, we are about out of time. Any final thoughts you'd like to share here?
Yeah, no, I love that you're doing this podcast, particularly around anxiety and mental health in general. I think that is unfortunately some of the lesser talked about concerns, just in our society in general, but especially in high-performing occupations like lawyers and doctors. Everyone wants to seem at the top of their game and nobody wants to have to admit that they are struggling or feeling anxious.
I just really appreciate you shining a light on something that is very normal to experience.
Oh well, I appreciate that. And it's funny, because as you're describing all the dysfunctional ways we can be in the world, I thought, "Wow, she's really talking about basically every lawyer." We're perfectionists, we're overachievers, we push ourselves too hard, we don't take care of our physical health. That's just the normal lawyer. And
at
some point you realize it doesn't have to be, actually.
No, it does not have to be.
Alright. Well, remind us again how people can find out more about you and reach out.
Yeah, so you can visit my website at www.TrueCandor.com. I'd love to hear from you.
Awesome. Thank you so much for joining us.
You're very welcome. Take care.
Well, it's been my pleasure. If you enjoyed this episode of the Bar Exam Toolbox podcast, please take a second to leave a review and rating on your favorite listening app. We'd really appreciate it. And be sure to subscribe so you don't miss anything. If you have any questions or comments, please don't hesitate to reach out to Lee or Alison at [email protected] or [email protected]. Or you can always contact us via our website contact form at BarExamToolbox.com.
Thanks for listening, and we'll talk soon!