S1E5: Let's talk about getting a date

Alright, everybody, welcome to the Art of Dating podcast, episode five. We're super excited for today because I have two really good friends with us here as guest speakers. So we have Ashley and Tanner and Um they're really close friends of mine. We work together over the summer and with Tanner. This is we work together for two summers now. Um anyway, they are engaged. And so we're just so excited to have them here on a dating podcast. Hey, thanks. Thank you, Kelly.

It could be even an an engaged podcast today, right? Oh definitely. I'm engaged in I'm not sure. Yes, yes, thank you, thank you. Um and we expect even engaged people to stay to keep dating, right? So I I made Kayla actually say we have some friends here because she in her preview was like I have some friends like no we have some friends because Ashley is actually the one she was the first student to approach me and say

You should do a podcast, right? And I'm like, oh yeah, I'm gonna do that. I believe was kinda how it went down and and uh kinda it but it kept needling me that you said that and oh there's lots of young adults that could use this information and this doctrine.

Uh was kind of what you had talked about. There's lots of young adults. Oh, I have friends who this would totally help. And that kind of stuck with me. And the fact that you said, I would totally come on and be on your and be on your podcast. So so tonight something special for you, right? I guess. Okay, tell us.

Well, it's my bachelorette party. Bachelorette party. And you already know it's gonna be a party. Oh yeah. So Kayla said to me, I'm like, Can we get Ashley to come on? And she's like, Oh, it's her bachelorette party I'm like Now we have to get her on so she can kind of tell us all about okay.

As long as it's appropriate, tell us what uh what are you doing for your bachelor party? We're gonna go to karaoke. Oh nice. Classic. Nice. Yep. And then after that I don't know what Rachel and Natalie have planned, but fun. Something fun. Something fun. Well I uh thanks for coming on this particular night. Yes, of course. And uh tell us just a little bit about where are you from kind of thing. What are you uh are you studying, what are you doing? Yeah, so I'm from Murray, Utah.

Um lived there pretty much my entire life except for like when I went on my mission. Um and You w you went on a mission? Yes. Where to? Argentina. Good. Um and then other than that, like I'm just finishing my generals, don't really know exactly what I want to do yet, which is kinda scary.

Um and prepping to get married and go out and do summer sales again. So nice, nice, nice, nice. Yeah. Tanner, tell us about you. Um, so I'm actually from San Antonio, Texas. I served my mission in uh Bulgaria, so Eastern Europe. And I'm just going to BYU right now, studying finance, hoping to graduate pretty soon and I specialise in commercial real estate. Really? Mm-hmm. I never hear Texas without thinking the stars at night.

And right? My my I have a sibling who went on a mission to Texas and then lived in Texas. Sugar place. Yeah, Sugarland right there. So I've driven there quite a few times actually.

Taking some groups to sing there. Fun. Um okay, so uh really uh I was hoping that you would come and I was kind of saving this, right, this topic to to hopefully it would work. And now I know a little of your story, this is gonna be perfect. So in our last episode we talked about becoming more dateable. And just maybe a review for us, Kayla, because these will be released, right, in different weeks.

That kind of a review is we really heavily hit the Luke two fifty two idea, that Jesus grew in in stature and in wisdom and in favor with God and man. And then talked about, you know, we we often think of attractiveness as just what your physical form looks like, right? But but Jesus grew in each one of these, and we all know that different things make us attracted to people.

Right? Someone can really bear a testimony that we talked about this last time. Someone can really bear a powerful testimony, you know, of the opposite sex when you're seeing them like, wow, I suddenly find them more attractive. And I don't mean just more physically attractive, but I'm attracted to them. So attractive means that you're attracted to them, right? You want to be with them. You want to get to know them.

So we we talked about that in our last episode that uh and uh I can't remember what what we decided to title it, Kayla. If that if that comes to your brain you can tell me. Ooh. Um It is Becoming the most data W. Yes, that's what it is. Because after we did the whole episode we're like, wow, that would be a better title than what we originally thought it was going to be.

But we talked about becoming the most dateable you by becoming the most attractive you. Right. And there are so many aspects in being attractive. And I think we need to branch out a little bit. We need to help young adults, especially Right in the modern society go, that doesn't just mean uh how great your hair is, or if you've got the perfect face.

that you know, I I told a story in our last episode about this kid coming in and saying, Am I nuts? This girl bore her testimony in church and I was suddenly so attracted to her. And I'm like, that's why we have institute you know. Keep reading your scriptures, you're gonna get married. Um you know, but but he she was so spiritually attractive that that made him attractive uh attracted to her. So we kind of focused on that last time.

This time we would like to focus on okay. So now I'm dateable, right? Like I got my date game going. Mm-hmm. How do I get a date? You know, like how do I actually get out onto a date, right? Uh anyway, so I thought we we would like to hear kind of how did you guys meet? What's your dating story? My voice just cracked right there. Like Scooby. We have you in the room. Shoot like like Zoic Scoob. Sometimes my throat just goes into my shaggy uh shaggy do there.

Um tell us how you met and then we'll take your story and see if it fits with what we're gonna teach today, if that's okay. Yeah, totally. Um well we met doing summer sales. So we were just out on a hike and which Ashley and I were on the same team. Very nice. My girl. Mm-hmm. And we're actually all three gonna be on the same team again this year, which we're super. Just fun stuff.

Um, but we met on a hike one Sunday. We just it wasn't really a hike, it was like a nature walk, um, just around a waterfall. And yeah. Yeah how we met and then didn't really Stay connected very well. No, that was the first time I was introduced to Ashley and I just kinda saw her in passing and thought, Okay, it's another person I get to meet. I didn't really see, you know

actually say or do much during that time. So I didn't really spend much time with her. But um I think it was a couple of weeks after at the Fourth of July where we all got together, um, just with all the teams within the area in Oregon. And we just had a a party. We were at the lake, had a girl out and I saw Ashley interacting with her friends. And I kind of saw her success as an individual in a sales rep over the summer and I just really got me attracted to her.

And I I saw how cute she was and so For those reasons, I decided to reach out and start talking to her. I'm laughing. It's because you were even you were hesitant to say how cute she was.

us, right?'Cause that makes you seem like a shallow person. So yeah, y you're not safe in this room, right? What you come into here, it's like, yeah, we're just gonna we're gonna be very normal and natural and uh Um this is the first time I'm meeting Tanner, but I know Ashley because she's the one who really got this ball rolling, but

Uh yeah, obviously when you were telling me just your personal story, I'm like, so why did you want to talk to her? And eventually like, because she was cute. I'm like, that's got to be on the scale somewhere, right? Um and I love that President Hinckley approached this

himself, right, when he was giving a talk to the youth from the conference center. It was one of those first big talks when one of the prophets was going to talk to the youth. He said that Heavenly Father made us attractive to one another for a great purpose. And I you know what? I felt like that broke a a wall for a lot of people. Heavenly Father made us attractive to each other.

And and of course there's spiritual attractiveness, there's there's uh social attractiveness, like like we talked about Kayla, there's You know, intellectual attractiveness, but he also made us physically attracted to one another. And I think we have to be okay to say that.

And and we don't want to put all of our right all of our emphasis on, oh, I only want to attract or I only want to be physically attractive or only date someone that's you know, that's a superstar physically. But it is fine for us to say that. Uh that that we should be

Taking care of our bodies and being attractive. And so I was so glad that you said I knew you were gonna say that'cause we all know right, we all know Ashley. At some point it was gonna come up. Ashley's cute, right? Yeah, she is. Um And how fun that you're just about to get married. That just that that's how a a you know, a husband to be should feel.

It's I've had it's funny'cause I've actually had a couple conversations. Wow, I'm jumping way ahead of where I should be. But might as well, right? My I was telling my daughter, my daughter who's married, she's like, Dad, I listened to an episode. And I said, How was it? She said, Once you got into the stories, it was good. So she was like, I didn't want to hear all the introductory stuff I know you.

Um, but but I had a, you know, I I had a student talking about this one time and saying about the physical attractiveness. And it and it really was this sense of, I don't know if I should even say I'm attracted to this person. And I went, Oh, you know what, that that's not good. I had another student then follow that up and and say So I've never really attracted to them.

But they're so wonderful. Is that is that bad to marry someone you're not attracted to? I said, you know, we actually have a word for that. When when you're not attracted to the person, but they're so wonderful and you spend a lot of time together, and that word is Friends. That's what we call a friend. Like you go, you're so wonderful. I want to spend time with you.

But and we're gonna get into this. I know I say this I'm learning about myself. I say this every episode. Yeah, that's true. We're gonna get into this in a different episode, but we can. Yeah, I'm trying not to get ahead of myself, which I constantly am doing. But we're we're going to talk about how do you know if this is a right person for you to marry. And Elnor McConkie, Bruce Normkey, he's going to say.

You should be attracted to them, right? Because you want to have someone that makes you feel validated physically as well. Not just spiritually like, oh, just bear your testimony to me every day. That that there's all levels of attractiveness that you should have. And I you know, I wouldn't recommend marrying one.

That you weren't attracted to on every level. I'm spiritually, socially, emotionally, uh, intellectually, and physically attracted to you. I wouldn't recommend marrying someone that that wasn't, that didn't have that attractiveness for me. So let let's just take your story and we've all got some paper and pens I think here that you know, if you have any that you want to you want to jump in. Let's take your story and kind of flesh this out, if you don't mind. Of course. So

So my my doctorate degree, my PhD is in educational psychology. So one day I was asked to to substitute for another professor on campus at UVU. Go Wolverines, right? Uh I was asked to substitute, so I went in and it was a psychology class, which is right up my alley. Love it. And it so Psychology 101 and chapter eleven is where I was teaching for all of you UVU people. You're like, ah, I totally have used this book and this chapter.

And it talks about how people get into relationships. And it was revelatory because I went, wow, this matches right up Not only with my personal experience, but with what I've heard the prophets and apostles say, right? The leadership of the church and the and the women leaders as well. I mean, they probably have way more even to say on relationships than than some of the brethren.

And and in the book it said here are the three things that will get you or that most relationships, how they how they develop, how they start. The first one wouldn't surprise us. Physical attractive. Right. I saw her, but I went, Wow, she's cute. And there is nothing wrong with going wow she's cute. I mean speaking of nothing wrong, do you know how uh President Monson and Sister Monson met? Have you ever heard that story? So he was at a stake dan well it was a an area dance.

And he even knows the song he was dancing to. He said, I was dancing the Virginia Real. swirling around with my date and as I swirled around I saw this other girl. Now it was Sister Monson. And he said, I saw her. And I was like, wow. And he said, you know, and I and the date was, you know, casual date that he was with. And they said, Wow, there was something about her that I just found immediately attractive.

And he said, I was going to find out who she was and then a couple of days later he was at the bus stop. And he saw this girl out there talking to one of his friends and he said, I jumped off the bus And went right up to my friends, like, hey, old friend, you know, and you can see this in his life biography. Hey, old friend, you know, and he said, I said, What's your name? And she said, Frances Beverly Johnson was her name. I remember that because my mom's Beverly Johnson.

Frances Barley Johnson said after they all left, I took out my student directory and I circled the name of Frances Johnson. And then he pursued her and you know, he took her to it uh to a dance and you know found all the other great things about her. So That story, your story, I think most of our stories, many of our stories, you go, there was something that got me to at least approach the other individual. And often it's that physical attractiveness.

Um so so exactly, right? There should be that feeling. Now, we're of course not going to stay there. Now, here's another part where I think it's a little sensitive. And I told I told Angie before this episode, I said, I'm so glad to be able to do this just to a microphone and a couple of people. Because this is this is so sensitive.

And this is where we really have to think of that what we concluded with last time, second Nephi thirty-two, three through five, that the Holy Ghost can really help coach us through some of these details, right? Um uh so here's the sense here's the sensitive not sensitive part. that there really is something all of us can do to improve that part of our datability, right? If we're finding one of the three most prevalent ways that couples get into relationships is through attractiveness.

then we have to pay some attention to our physical attractiveness, right? If that is if people uh if someone comes to my office and says, I want to go on more dates, The one of the first things I should say is become more physically attractive. But that would be so shallow and I would obviously lose my job. You know, I wouldn't even say that to my own daughter because it's so tender and sensitive. But we can maybe say that in here. So here's the here's the problem.

I think a lot of people go, Oh, especially girls, right? Uh having had four daughters, still have them, right? I have four granddaughters now too. Oh fun. Um But I think that immediately we think of ourselves as not attractive. And we also think and there's nothing I can do about it. Right.

Oh I'm not as I think everybody in the world probably does that same thing. I know I do. Right. And maybe I'm just not attractive. Maybe you're going actually like, yeah, you're pretty right. Uh no, no, no. But but you go, I'm not attractive and there's nothing I can do about it. Because We've had the media hold up to us blank. is attractive. You know, like oh if you have a certain hair color, a certain eye color, a certain waist size. And and here is where the science

The first time I learned this was actually out of this uh psychology book. The first time I learned this I went This is another evidence to me that there really is a heavenly father, that this plan is really meant for our success, and this is it. As they look a gr around the world to say, okay

What is attractive? I mean there have been a ton of studies done on this. Like what's attractive? Is blonde the most attractive? Is brown hair the most attractive? What skin tone specifically is the most attractive? There have been a ton of studies on this. And the nice result, right, the nice finding is there isn't anything. There isn't any one particular thing that that you know that they go, oh, this is the hair color, this is the eye color, this is the skin color.

What they're finding is that there are a couple of attributes that are attractive. For example. Hair that's healthy. Mm-hmm. Who can have healthy hair? Well just about everybody because it's, you know, based on your vitamins, your minerals, your biotin, how much you know, what you're eating. That healthy hair across we call this cross culturally when we're doing this type of study, right? Cross culturally, healthy hair is attractive.

But the thing is, it's not, oh, I wasn't born with blank, right? It's hey, I should take care of, you know. And some of it isn't like, oh, I have the most amazing hair. Some of it is I I showered. I shampooed my hair, and I've styled my hair.

Right. And and that much I can do. Even if people with hair like mine, which my wife is like, Your hair is like wire. She cuts my hair. Actually on Thursday I tried cutting my own hair and then she rescued me. I've never tried to cut your own hair. I thought, How about what can I do to this? Right. But she's like, your hair is so pokey. But but what I can do is at least I can shampoo it and style it a little bit. They also found that healthy teeth is attractive.

Whenever anybody says that, then I don't want to smile. Have you ever noticed that? Whenever I'm in class and someone says, I'm a dental assist assistant, I'm I I put my hand over my mouth. But but that's another sign of health. And that's something that everyone can do. We can all brush our teeth. Very true. We can all take care of our teeth. So here's the really great finding that I love because I was born into a family of larger people, right? I mean we're all we're all big people.

And uh you know, and I often wish I I wish I could be one of those ki kinda smaller, you know, not always fighting to you know, I watch everything I eat. I'm not kidding when I say that, you probably don't believe me. But I you know, I I watch it go right into my mouth. Um but I watch everything I eat and and still I still struggle. But the science has now shown us that there is no perfect weight. There is no perfect waist size, but There's no perfect height.

Uh that the all of those things that we uh we used to consider attractive, you know, like, oh, you know, they used to actually have girls on the beauty pageants, they would say their size is right, their dimensions. Um, but there actually isn't a perfect dimension. That there is not a waist size that is the ideal. Here's what they have found. That your hip to your waist ratio.

is very attractive. So your hips, which are your bones, which you're you're not losing bones, right? You can't like, oh I just lost a third of my bone, right? Uh the if your hips are wider than your waist, that's attractive. And that, I'm telling you, when I read that research, I was so happy because I went, that's something almost all of us can do.

That that just takes exercise and watching your calories and you know, living healthy. Yeah. And so all of a sudden I went, oh There's just another evidence to me that Heavenly Father has made it good for all of us. You know, you can be a much larger person and say, Well, I'm just gonna get into shape. I don't have to get into somebody else's shape. I just have to get my body, my package, my right, my my physical form.

I have to get mine into shape. Mm-hmm. And the more I do that, the more physically attractive I am. Each one of the things we just talked about, just about everybody in the whole world can do. Right? And can I add on a fourth? I know this is not part of the study, but uh It probably was. Something that I think goes beyond just, you know, maintenance of your body or things that you can do to physically appear more attractive. Um, might also include how you dress. And I

How how a girl dresses is a critical thing for me deciding if she actually cares about how she looks to other people and what goes on in her daily life. And I I want a girl that's gonna continue to appear attractive to me. For the rest of my life. Taking notes. All right. And I I feel like that should be expected from me as well, you know? Absolutely. And that's funny because when people get married they often forget that.

Right. It's true. And so for even just being engaged, I've forgotten that. Like today I was like, hmm, should I actually take down my swats or I had that very conversation with somebody today about the dress. saying, you know, there is something you can do immediately and it doesn't even take going to the gym. And that is showering and then checking out your clothing. And it doesn't even have to be expensive. You know, just that just demonstrates that you care about what you're wearing.

Totally. So this one I have I'm very passionate about how I look. Um but I think you don't necessarily have to dress to the um What am I looking for? You don't have to like it doesn't have to be the trendy clothes.

Feel good in what you wear. Wear something that you like you look in the mirror and you go, dang, I look really good today. Because then you dress for yourself and you look good, then you feel good, and that immediately when people look at you, you they feel confidence coming off of you and then so one, you're pleasing yourself, you're dressing for yourself, but then it's just an added plus that you're dressing for somebody else.

And the confidence we're talking about is like one of the most attractive things. Like if a guy looks like pretty decent and he comes out and he's like I'm confident, you're like, holy crap, yes you are. Like, hello, you know. So I don't even care the color shirt you wear. Hey, whatever, but the confidence Yeah. Okay. Uh that's funny. Now I have to have two girls in the room. Real this is this is different. We haven't done this yet.

Um that's that's good. You know I was a as you were saying that. I was thinking and you do feel a difference, don't you? And I like that you said that it's your style. Right? You don't have to it's just like you don't have to get your body into somebody else's shape. You don't have to get your style into somebody else's. It's amazing that I can see people that I go, I would never wear that.

But they are rocking that, right? They they're they're killing it. Now now someone's going to look we've been going fifteen minutes on this topic. Somebody may go, Wow, they've made all of this about this whole episode is about the way you look physically. That that's just one of the three, right? Let's move away from that. Let me just recap what we've said, because I want everyone to feel good about it. um there is something every one of us can do to be a little more attractive.

And and I'm not saying you have to go out and go, physicality is my number one thing, right? That's my most attractive because maybe your maybe your great strength like we heard in episode four with the other tanner. Maybe maybe your great strength is your spirituality or your soul socially. But there is something always. Any any time you increase any of your attractiveness in any category, you become more dateable.

Is that is that a fair statement? It just broads the net, I think. That's a oh man, I even have a little thing on my screen, right? Uh it's called deepening your dating pool, right? Where you go and I have a bunch of fish on this. If you can see my screen I've got a triangle triangle. And as you expand your attractiveness in all these areas, there's more fish, right? Because y you've got a broader net. So excellent. Thank you so much, Tanner.

So there's something all of us can do. I don't want anyone to listen to this episode and get down on them. You should listen to this episode and go, Oh man, I've been worried about that. And I can feel better because I don't have to be Marilyn Monroe, and I don't have to be so-and-so, and I don't have to have her body or his body. I don't have to have I got my own body. All I have to do is take care of it, and that's gonna be more attractive. Just take care of the body you've got.

That's all that you know there's no perfect out there. Just take care of that body. Now back to your story. So that that's number one, right? Physical tracking. And that's what science shows. Whether we wanted to bring that up or not, we were going to have to because that's the top. The second thing that science shows goes right along with your relationship. So the first time Tanner was telling us a little bit of his story, I was like, stop, stop, stop, because I want you to tell this live.

Um he said, uh, I talked to her where we were when we were at this activity at a waterfall or something. I'm like, so why did you talk to her? Now this is romantic. He said because she was there. And I'm like, Wow that led to marriage. That's amazing. Anybody can get married. Incredible, right? Um, because she was there. It turns out that is exactly what science is showing, right? Because she was there.

That's called proximity, right? To approximate or to get two bodies together, closer together, two things closer together is called proximity. Proximity is huge. Uh an that may even come that maybe even tie with physical attractiveness. Sometimes when I teach that in class I swap those two just from personal experience, although I think science is saying physical attractiveness attractiveness starts off a lot of

But proximity, getting two bodies together, right, closer together, and I'm talking like within feet so that you can talk, is so significant. Why is it so significant? Because proximity gets you into the other three or four levels of attractiveness. So you can see across a room from a hundred feet.

You know, or you can see on a T V screen or you can be swiping, right? You all know what I'm talking about, right? You're on a mutual app or whatever. I'm not supporting any app. This this program is not uh supporting any app or any store. Um but you're swiping on some random named app that but that's only going to show you one level of attractiveness, one piece of the pie, and that's physical attractiveness.

Even if they've written all these great things about'em. It's mostly right, you swipe because you're seeing the physical form. Once you get proximate to somebody, once you approximate you're in proximity. then you can start to learn their other levels of attractiveness. Mm-hmm. Right. It's true. And I mean, for me it was like I talked to Tanner that one time and he almost like

didn't really give me the time of day. It's not that he didn't give me the time of day, but he just was like, Oh hi and then he went about a wa about his way and I kinda was able to like observe a little bit and be like, Okay, this guy's kinda cool. Like, I'd wanna be around him again, you know. I'd wanna get closer to him and get to know'em a little bit more. So just like that first encounter was all it took to like Kind of start things, even though it wasn't immediate.

This guy's kind of cool is a great way to say it. Yeah. I mean we would say on this episode This guy is kind of socially attractive. But no girl talks like that. No normal person. Um But but that's really what's happening. I'm seeing that he has social skills and some other skills, right? Intellectually stimulating because he's achieving, right?

And now I've gotten into a new level. Not not these aren't levels like, you know, one is shallow and the other is deep. They're just different. They just add on to each other. Yes, yes. They're more like a pie, a new slice of the pie. I saw he was physically attractive. Ooh, I've added a slice there. And that is he's socially attractive to me. But that doesn't happen until you approximate, right? Until you get close to each other. And you have a conversation.

And then you start going, Oh, I just noticed that he is socially attractive as well. Okay, tell us the other thing that you were I can't remember if you said this or not in the on the recording. But what else did what else attracted you uh to Ashley? uh just her personality. Um well her personality and also her goals and mindset.

And I feel very attracted to people that share a similar mindset to myself and have a similar personality. I think that's true for everybody, that you're attracted to people that are very similar to you. Um Okay, don't get ahead,'cause that's gonna be our next one, right? Of course.

But yeah, that's uh I just got to observe, like Ashley said, like that's a huge part about updating is you build this in-depth profile of the person that you're physically attracted to and you want to learn a little bit more about them and see how they behave outside of just being with you or talking to you. Yeah. Yeah, and so and one of the things I liked when we were before we started recording was you said

She had done some amazing thing, right? She had achieved something. Ah, it had a ten day. A ten day, so that must be a summer sales something, right? Yeah. She killed it in a s on a day where she sold a lot of accounts and made a lot of money and I was You were attracted to her money. Now that's that's gonna that's a whole different episode. Okay. But you go, okay There was a level of attractiveness there that that had to do with her goals, right? That had to do with her abilities.

And we would probably have said that in our previous episode. An intellectual, right? She had goals and intellectually, right, she had something there. An intellectual, right? Jesus grew in wisdom. And that's very attractive too, right? There's another slice of the pie. So you go, Wow, I found him socially attractive.

I found him intellectually attractive. I found him physically attractive. You can see that this pie is starting to get filled in, right? If we've got a big circle here and there's four or five giant slices that you go, wow, he's starting to have all of the slices or she's starting to have all the slices of the pie. that are good for me. And so proximity, so important.

Now, this uh that's funny. I I just recently had a conversation with someone about this. And like, why am I not going on any dates? And they're like, where are you getting proximate to people? Where are you getting close to people? Well, I don't know, it's almost impossible to do these days. I'm like, Well then it's impossible to date. Yeah, exactly. And and I said to her, Yeah, I said, you know, you gotta kinda consider like all of your attractiveness

Like bait. You know, uh this is terrible. My wife hates me using this example. But it kind of is like bait. It's true. That's true. That's why they say there's other fish in the sea. Um it's kind of like bait, but all the bait in the boat. Won't catch a fish. If you're living in your parents' basement and you're never getting out of their basement, you are not going to get married because you're not going to find a date.

Right. You need to go, okay, I need to get my attractiveness, right? I've developed my attractiveness thanks to episode four. I've attra I've developed all this attractiveness on all these levels. All these different slices

Now I gotta get the pie out there somehow. Right? I've I've got to get myself out there. That's what I love. I when singles wards first were developed, I actually didn't really agree with them. I'm like, oh no, man. Just leave all the singles in our wards. You know, I want them just to have single people in my ward. That's what I do. But now I see that getting all the singles together

gives them proximity in a church setting. And one of the most attractive things is spiritual attractiveness, right? So here they all are in a church setting and they can do activities together. So If you want to go on more dates, right? We talked about being dateable. Now we're talking about going on dates. Get out. Get out of the house and

Get out of that's my phone. Get out of the house. Oh, this is funny, you know who's calling me? This boy who wants to use our backyard for his date tonight. So that's perfect. That's perfect. He's gonna listen to this episode and go, I called right during your episode. Creating proximity for other people. For proximity, yes. I do this for a living. Yeah. And we don't charge for people to go on dates in our backyard. We have a little fire pit back there. That's so okay.

So back to that. But but if you're not getting out and getting close to other people, then there's really not that opportunity to to date. No matter how attractive you are. You've got to get out of the You gotta get your bait out of the boat and into the water to be able to to be attracted or attracted.

So to attract someone. And even if you don't get a catch, like just keep going for it. I I asked for Ash's number probably three times over the summer and she didn't give it to me once. Actually, play a little hard to do it. There you go. And and sometimes you have to go, maybe I need to adjust the bait. Maybe there's something about me that I need to change. Maybe I just need to continue, right? And I had that I've had that very conversation so many times. Look, you're wonderful.

Just keep going. Sometimes that's it is just keep going. You're you are wonderful. Just keep going. So Yeah. And a good reminder is too that like if you don't get somebody that doesn't mean that like there's nothing there's nothing wrong with you. They might not just be looking for you. You know, like and at that time when I had turned tenor down three times I wasn't looking, I was already dating other people. And so I was like, I don't really need to

Continue. You didn't know how much you needed it. I didn't know how much you needed it. I didn't. Yeah, I didn't I had other people. And we're gonna have a whole episode, uh Kayla and I keep alluding to this about hunting sharks, right? We talked about that, chumming the water and all that, so Um we're gonna have a whole episode more about, you know, pulling that in, but that's so important.

Because I I have I know some of the most wonderful Sherry Do is one of these great examples. We always love to point to her. But I know five or six other men and women that are in my life currently that I go, you don't get better than that? But they're not they're not going on dates. And it's not that they're not super attractive and they're not trying.

Sometimes you're just not in right the right location or you gotta wait for the right fish to come along that goes, oh, I'm I'm looking for that particular bait. And and bam, that's gonna happen. So we don't want people to get disappointed. Stay with it, right? Just continue to develop your attractiveness.

And keep getting your bait out there. And that but that can be tiresome, right? That can be weary. I you know, I've had lots of people tell me that too. Katie wanted to say something? Um yeah, I was just gonna say that um this restores hope in myself. because you can't cast a line and expect the moment it enters into the water to catch something.

And then sometimes you catch a fish and you're like, I can't like I can't eat that. Like I can't it's We're not compatible. We're not compatible. Throw that thing back in the water and you cast the line again. So I think that like

you can't expect the first line to go in the moment it hits the water to find someone that you're compatible with. It's gonna take a couple of casts and it's gonna take You know, you if you go fishing for two hours, you're not gonna catch very many fish, but if you go for a full day

So the longer you go, you know. Give me some time. And I love using the word compatibility because I would never want us to give the impression that there's a fish out there that's better than another fish, right? That you're going, oh well a trout is better than hell.

Because they're different, right? And you need to find the one that you're compatible with. And so, you know, we've we've stressed this several times, but I'm going to do it again because I want people to walk away from this going, wow, I am filled with hope from this episode. Um that's a good thing. that we have different physical attractions. You know, some people are like, I really like that that the body frame and I like that hair color and I like

You know and sometimes it changes with time or you you don't even know what you're attracted to. You might have thought, I'm only a halibut person. You land a trout and you go, Wow, trout is my new favorite. I thought I was gonna marry a blonde. I really did. Tanner's not block. So at the whole audience people are like, well, is he blocked? Tanner is not blonde. Um but but you know, it's not like there's one that you go, this one's the best. Oh, everyone should become a blonde.

But you go but but it is much more I don't know much easier to understand.

I'm looking for someone that's compatible with me. Right. I'm looking for for someone that's compatible with me. And that leads to the third thing that we were talking about that Tanner already kinda jumped in with. Uh so first first or second, whichever order you want to put them in, proximity is one. Physical attractiveness is another, and the third one is we often get into relationships because we have similarities.

Right. And so that's really important to say, oh, then I should probably be in places with people that have similar goals. Uh and I'll just write out of the research here. We're attracted to similar others. Um the research shows the following similarities are things we seek. So I'm just actually reading this is right actually out of the chapter there that I was quoting in demographics. So you usually look for somebody that's similar to you in age.

Often you look to somebody that's similar to you in in uh religious background, right? Religion, income level, uh that you both want to have the same in income level. Not that you have to have it, right? But that you both that's a desire for you. Or even education level. Right? If education is very important to you, you're going to be attracted to somebody that education is very important.

too. Mm-hmm. Uh if if you know, physical appearance is very attractive or very important to you, you're probably gonna attract somebody that that's very important to. You know, the likeness is we read a quote from Doctor of Covenants, is it uh eighty eight forty? uh last time that lightness is going to attract each other, right? Light and light. But it's not just like, well, there's light and there's dark, but different similarities, right? Like, oh I'm really into I know Kayla Rock climbing.

Right. I'm really into that. Or I'm really motivated by somebody who has goals because I'm goal-oriented. For me, you know, I was looking for somebody that was kind. I do not like contention. And I had dated a couple of girls that they're that were kind of con had a little contentious spirit. And I tell ya, when I found Angie, I was like, Oh man, this is so comfortable for me. Like she is she hates contention even more than I do.

You know, it just it it it shakes her up and I go, This is what I want. I want to be surrounded by peace. That was something very important to me. Something that really nice Ashley and I that we really discovered on that second time that I I at least got to know her was Um we both have financial goals that are very similar.

And a huge part of that is re real estate and investing in rental properties. And that's both something we've been able to do. If she has a property now, I have a property now and that's just something that we have a goal to to buy a new rental property every single year. It's amazing what similarities can can bring people together, right? I've seen lots of music people get together or people go, I really have an an interest in one particular thing and and those bring people together. So

So and personalities also. So we know that in demographics, attitudes and values and personalities. So when someone comes to me and says, How can I date more? I go, What are you looking for? Do you have that same attribute? Then get out where those people are. If you're like, I'm looking for a brainiac, I'm like, then hang out at the library. Right? Or get into a field where you're gonna find a lot of those people. Or I just want somebody who makes me laugh.

Go go to a place where people like a karaoke night. You're gonna find people there that like that kind of thing, right? Or I'm looking for a musician. Join the choir, right? Join the choir if you're looking for a musician or get into the music, you know, go to music things. So let's just recap. Are we this is this was gonna be 25 minutes. I think we're approaching 40. Let's just recap here. So if you want to go from being dateable to going on dates.

That that does take some work, right? And one of those is make taking your attractiveness and actually making it work for you. Uh no matter how physically attractive you've become If you never get you're right, if you never use proximity, if you never get out, that's not going to to matter.

And the great thing about proximity being kind of so we're going to the rest of our episodes, we're going to talk about proximity being the headwaters, not physical attractiveness. We just started with that one because that's what the science has said. But proximity will let you see everything about somebody, right? When you get out and you're doing stuff.

Then you're going to uh you know you're going to see all of their attractiveness, their spiritual attractiveness, their social attractiveness. And the crazy thing is, that as you find these other things attractive, you start to even find them more physically attractive. Have you have you guys found that in your short relationship even? Definitely.

I like okay, so on our the second time that we had met up, he and I were just like um playing this game that he had come up with and I was like you're so creative and smart and talented, that's way more attractive.

To me, like you were way more attractive now that I know you came up with this stupid game called Spider Pong or Spider Ball or whatever. But like it was just gonna go huge it's gonna go huge. But it's really just like spike ball and ping pong. But the fact that he came up with that and like Yeah.

I just thought thought that was so attractive and ever since then I was like, okay, like I'm interested. And it's kind of funny because they actually get physically cuter. Which nothing changed about them. But but it's yeah, I found that with my wife too, and she's gorgeous.

But the more I found out, one day I I pulled out her scriptures that were in the back of her card. I'm like, Wow, what a crazy marking system is this? And she's like, Oh, I've been reading through all of the books, finding the reference about Jesus and I mark'em this way and I'm like

Wow. And your hair was gorgeous before. You know? It was it was like somehow physically she even became yeah, I just became more attracted to her. That's a hundred percent true. Yeah. So so we don't have to just focus on the physicality and I I hope we've made that clear that We take all slices of that pie and we develop them and then we get ourselves out there. And you don't have to be perfect.

to start dating, right? I think there's probably some of us that are like, I'm gonna wait until I am the ultimate, ultimate, right? You know, I'm not walking out here until I'm Captain America. And you go, well, that may take the rest of eternity. Uh, why don't you do do as good as you can and continually develop, but get out into the dating world, right? Get out there and start getting approximating to people.

And as you're dating you can continue to develop your qualities. Okay, we'll give you the last word then. Um

You look like you're about to say something where you Oh yes. Um I guess I was just gonna say the opposite is true. I've met so many like a in my mind attractive guys and then they're just bland and I'm like they are now unattractive. So build the qualities that you want in others because well, that you're looking for in a spouse because when you build those then when you meet the right one, like you're gonna match up in many ways besides just

Physical attractiveness. And like if you're scared to start the whole dating process, just work on like one slice that you're most insecure about. and go from there. And it'll all start to work out. That's amazing'cause she hasn't even listened to our last episode. That's how we ended our last episode. Oh, well there we go. Then look at your slices, right? Look at your pie there and say

Where's my worst slice? I'm just gonna develop that one a little bit. Accentuate the best thing about you too, right? Accentuate the best thing about you and kind of work on the thing that you go if this is the thing that makes me insecure. Not that somebody else wants to change about me. This is the thing that makes me insecure, and I'm gonna broaden that slice a little bit so I feel better about myself. That it's amazing how

Really even a testimony makes you just a more attractive and more dateable and you know intellectual and all those things. Well, I think we've beaten this thing up. So bless you guys for listening this long. Yes, thank you so much. If you made it all the way to the end of this episode and congratulations, you two. Thanks for joining us. And have a great time tonight. Thank you. We'll catch you for episode six. Yeah, next week. Next Tuesday. Same time, same place, episode six.

And if you have if you have any questions or comments that you wanna throw out there We have an email, it's the Art of Dating Podcast at gmail dot com. Feel free at any time to shoot us an email. Say that one more time, Kayla. The Art of Dating Podcast at gmail dot com. Okay. All right.