What is up everybody and welcome to the ALL NBA Show Part of the All City Podcast Network. I'm your host Adam Madez, I'm joined by my esteemed colleague Tim Legler. Legs? Only two more shows on theoretical basketball than the season is here. It is the week of the NBA season. I cannot wait for it. Two more shows on theoretical basketballs, two too many. I think we both can agree on that. But, this all we have man, that's all we got.
Particularly when, okay so the other night, Friday night, I did NBA countdown, which I haven't done a lot of countdown since you know, probably last 10 years. I did countdown the night for a preseason game, Lakers Warriors. Right, I'm kind of excited.
I go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, you know and then we proceeded to lead into a game that had basically no one playing. I mean, the Warriors played some of their guys, Courage didn't play, nobody from the Lakers played and I'm just sitting there going man, what are we doing right now? You know, we're trying to make us seem interesting. So I'm with you.
I can't wait one more night and we start playing real games and breaking down real games that matter and getting a look at these combinations, these new combinations, new faces, new places all those things, new coaches, rookies, when it really matters. So I'm with you, man, sign me up for some real basketball. But I think today we got some fun content given kind of our perspective on some things leading into the season. So we could be fun to go back at the end
of the year and see how close we were to some of these things. Absolutely. So as we did on Friday, we looked at swing factor players in the Eastern Conference and they could be stars, they could be role players, they could be secondary stars. Today we're going to turn our attention to the Western Conference and we got four lined up for you. Actually, we have five technically. We have Clay
Thompson and Naji Marshall, both them big swing factors for the Dallas Mavericks. We have Chet Hulgren, obviously with the Thunder, Jamal Murray can't wait to get to that one at the end. But we're going to start with Anthony Edwards and this is your list, Legs. I asked you to put together players that you think are going to swing the title race out west. Anthony Edwards surprised me because I feel like we kind of know what he is and he's already led a team to the
Western Conference. So why did he make your list for swing factors? Well, first, I'm going to say this and I love the way you just teed me up because I'm going to say this. I hope we don't know what he is. I hope we don't think Anthony Edwards is a finished product. That would be disappointing to me. I think we got ahead of ourselves last year a little bit with Anthony
Edwards. I think in general, as a collective in the media, we got a little bit of ahead of ourselves with the kind of run he was on and then winning the series against Denver and the dramatic fashion the way that they did. People were starting to make that comparison that is so taboo in this line of work, Tom Michael Jordan and all of those things. We got ahead of ourselves with it. And then of course they lose the Dallas and that kind of shut everything down for the year with them.
So here's why I said Anthony Edwards. If Anthony Edwards and I think the talent is there, if he makes a significant leap this year and in terms of just his ability to be super efficient in his mid-range game, to be a dominant fourth quarter closing player, like one of those unstoppable type forces in the fourth quarter because he can get a shot from anywhere on the floor and he's
making contested shots that matter late in games. If he continues to improve his passing and playmaking out of the attention he gets, I think these are all areas that are there for Anthony Edwards. You know a little bit more consistency with his deep ball because it makes him almost impossible with regard if he's hitting that. I think these are all areas in which he can improve.
And if he does that out of, if he takes that leap, like he single-handedly can be a guy that just moves the needle in Minnesota's direction if he gets to the place that I'm talking about. Because I think I don't think he's a superstar yet. We throw that word around a little bit too often. I think he has the chance to become a superstar this season. Now, having said that, I don't know and I know it's taboo in our business to say I don't know to anything, right? People
that they don't want to hear that. And I rarely do. I can't sit here and say I know if I like their team better. I don't know if I do or not. I need to see what it looks like with Julius Randall in those minutes that Carl Anthony Townes used to get. I need to see the impact that Devin Chenzoe has for these guys. I need to see Dillingham. And I think he's NBA ready, but let's see. Let's see once it actually matters what he does. So I don't know if I like their team better than
last year. If it turns out I do once I've seen enough of a sample size and Anthony Edwards is doing the things I'm saying. Like he could swing the pendulum in Minnesota's direction. As such an extent, they potentially could be in the NBA finals. No one would be surprised by that if Anthony Edwards takes this lead because he could be the most dominant player in the Western conference potentially. So that's why I put him first because I don't know if he'll get there. I think he
has the potential to get there. I don't know if their team is ultimately going to be good enough. They've got the potential to be. So there's a lot of unknown I feel like with the Minnesota Terrible Wolves. And to me it starts with how much can Anthony Edwards expand his game this coming season? And I believe that he's got great capability to do it. So they're just to me. That's a big X factor in terms of how we view the Terrible. One way we talked about him expanding his game
last season throughout the course of the year was better bending the defense. He's a great score. He's explosive. He's hard to contain. But if you overload, if you throw a lot at him, I thought throughout the course of the year he got better at that trait. But I think when you talk about he's not a superstar. The difference to me is that superstars are able to use those things to your advantage. You're going to double me. You're going to bring two guys up top. Well, I'm going to maximize our
window by dragging you away or we're going to bend. You're going to bring the low man all the way over. I'm going to set the table so that when I get rid of the ball, we make something of it. And I think that to me is the next step for him because he already scores at a high level. His defense is extremely impressive. What he did, Jamal Murray was abusive in the playoffs last year. But to me, it's that part of like, okay, is there a defense you can throw at where he doesn't
necessarily maximize the window? And I think that's the number one thing I want to see from him this year. And by the way, taking cat out of the equation, I think actually puts the oneness on him to do that even more this year because there's one less, you know, great creator. I know Julius Randall can create, but it gives a little bit more responsibility to him to set the table. What do you think of that? What do you think he is in the development on that skill? Yeah, no, I agree with
that. I think that's that's that's really where the next level comes with what that involves is a level of maturity and poise and an ability to play at multiple speeds and pace is so you can really see things and develop and anticipate the next action defensively where you're like a step ahead at all times. And I think he's smart enough to do it. He's certainly competitive enough to do it. You and I have been talking about that, you know, since the first time you and I spoke really
a year ago, that's one of the things we love about him. He's got to look at his eyes that says he's just so hungry for greatness, hungry to win. And we both love that about him. I think he takes losing hard. And I think what's one of the characteristics that all these these guys that have these qualities we're talking about that are MVP's that win champion champs that lead teams to those places that's one thing they'll have in common. I think they go home and they lose sleep when they don't win.
And Anthony Edwards has that quality. So I think you're right. That now is that's the part where you take your foot off the gas just a little bit in terms of your athletic ability because you know, we know he's got that at a totally different level than a lot of wings in this league. But now it's okay, slow things down process what's happening. And really now be somebody that defences and
guys that are constructing defensive game plans on coaching staffs. They really don't know what to do with you now because now it's any any sort of gap or attack or a single coverage or a mismatch or a bad matchup. He's going to get whatever he wants as a scorer. Well, now that next level comes there. How in what ways is he a magnet for the defense that leads to easy offense for other people? That is absolutely part of the package I'm talking about. You know, look, he's close.
He's very close at him to to to to be in that guy that like is just put him in there first team all NBA lock it in for the next 10 years. He's very close to getting there. And this might be the first year that he does that. And a lot of that is going to come with team success. And that's why I said I just need to see what they look like once the season starts and they play some meaningful
games. And I mean, I'm not talking four or five games. Give me give me 10, 15, 20 games. And I'm going to have a much better opinion because I want to see how Julius Randle incorporate himself playing alongside of Anthony Edwards and how different that's going to look from the way Carl Anthony Towns played. So it's a fascinating player. Anthony Edwards. I love watching him. I've got a lot of respect for him. And the the arc that he has been on to this point in his career
says that there are multiple layers still for him to achieve and add to his game. And I think I think he he does that this year in which it's more universally accepted. How great the guy is. I think he gets there this year. But if those things don't tighten up, he won't. He'll be another guy that we say, great athlete, great score, super entertaining, all those things. But not, you know, one of those guys we look at as potential MVP candidate, first team all league lock it in.
He's going to be somewhere in one of those two places. And I'm going to give him the benefit of that and says he gets there. It's wild that he's only 23. And by the way, just turn 23 this summer. It's not like he's about to be 24. This is his age 23 season. And I feel like that is the age. I mean, I bet you there's statistical analysis of this. But I feel like that is the age where guys make the biggest leaps tend to make the biggest leaps because you're now, you know,
I mean, he's been he's had a very mature body for quite a long time. But just I feel like that is the age where you're just over the hump. You're not young anymore, but you're still you're still fresh. And so I kind of that's a part of this to me is you're talking about him not being a star. Part of me goes, he's the age most guys used to be drafted. He used to be drafted at age 23. And now he's going into it. So that's one reason I kind of am buying the Anthony Edward stock. What do you
make of that? Well, listen, and the people need to understand, I always said this. And this is kind of where I, you know, come down on things. I think your prime years as an NBA player are 25 to 32. And he's not close to that yet. He's got a couple more years to get under his belt before he gets there. So that's scary to think about if he's doing these kinds of things now and he has an it's the reason I think that his Adam when you get to that age by the time, especially now you're
coming into the league at 1819. So you've got six, seven years under your belt by the time you get to where I'm talking about like 25, 26. You got six, seven years under your belt. And you know what's happened by then? You've gotten your second contract. So that does you worry about money anyway, coming out when you're one of these guys, but you know, you've got so much money at that point. You're on your second deal. You've probably had some all-star game appearances. You've had some
individual accolades. You probably made some all-league teams. You maybe got some MVP votes. Maybe you even want to championship or compete it for one. So a lot of this stuff that you wanted like check the box, they're checked. And so when you get to be 25 to 31, the combination of physical maturity is at its best. In addition to I think some of the, you relax a little bit in terms of
like pressing to prove who you are. And I think that's important. Not to press. You still want to continue to show people, but you're not like, you're not somebody at every night like that's something that's at the top of your agenda. Things happen a little bit more naturally for you. And then finally, I just think it gives you enough years to add the type of polish to your game and augment your game in the ways we're talking about around the margins. You're smarter. You're more
professional. You've probably got some of the stuff you're doing off the court under control a little bit better by the time you get to be that age. You maybe you've had a child. There's just different things change your perspective. Most of I just think he's still a couple years away from even beginning to enter that period of time when all of that stuff slows down for you. Right? So that's scary that he is this good at this age. And I thought he took an incredible
leap a year ago. I think there's a couple more coming for him. And I wouldn't say that if I didn't believe he has that level of edge and intensity about him because not everybody does. And he does. And that means to me, he gets there now. We don't know ultimately how this trade's
going to affect them. And if they, if they take a step back, man, that's going to change some things in just in terms of how we view him going forward like well, then how does he get himself to a place where they can tease contending for championships because that has to happen for us to really put him on the mantle that he ultimately think he can get to. You got to be contending every year. And if this isn't the right move for Minnesota for whatever reason,
then now we got it. We're going to be sitting here at the end of the season saying, okay, what happens next for Anthony Edwards and the Minnesota Timberlitz? Because this wasn't the move that got them closer. But every means to be seen, it might be. Devin Chenzoe might also allow for him to take easier defensive assignments. I think last year he took on the Jamal Murray excitement because he wanted to. I think that competition brought
out something, get him that he kind of, he wanted. But I even look at that and I go, you have Jade McDaniels, the Keele Alexander Walker, my guy, Adon Teyde, Devin Chenzoe. Those are three phenomenal perimeter defenders. And when you get into a playoffs, sometimes, whether you want that challenge or not, sometimes it's not nice not to have to take it for four quarters. And that might be something that helps him as well. And lastly, legs, he leads the NBA in bank shots.
I love that. I did. It's just a random step. But I love that he is bringing the bank shot back. He used to be a great shot. A lot of guys don't take it now. He's like twice as many as anybody else in the NBA. I had my two-year-old in my pool yesterday lifting him up with my basketball goal that I've got on the pool. And I was having him work on nothing but bank shots. Just banks, baby. And just kept saying he kept saying it over in a bank shot.
Bank shot. You have two feet away. But he's just using that square because it is a really important component. Not a lot of guys go to it. I love the guys that go to it from places I would never have dreamed of banking of all, you know? Westbrook actually takes some weird angles on bank shots sometimes. And I know the tension. And I'm like, what? That never would have dreamt to do it until you're right. At the average, he utilizes that in his game. I'm excited for
him man this year. I mean, you know, he he's just I think he's he represents everything you want in your top guy. And now he just has to refine. Refine things. Continue to add. And I'm curious to see what Minnesota looks like once we get started. All right, let's take our first break. While we're taking our break, hop in the chat. Let us know. What do you predict for Anthony Edwards this year? It can be a statistical prediction. It can be just what you think is going to happen
with the Timberwolves. Let us know in the chat. And on we come back on the other side, we're going to talk a little Dallas Mavericks. But first, game time takes the guesswork out of buying NBA tickets. If you want to go to an NBA game this week, opening night, where are you going to get your tickets? Of course, the game time app they have a great interface. I think the best user experience in all of like the ticket buying apps to different places because they have that all in price feature
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real quick, why are both of them on the list for you here? Well, because I just didn't think I should leave one off because I think they're both equally important in different ways to this team. And look, this team went to the finals a year ago. So things broke their way for that to happen. They also went out and earned it. They've got a guy that's arguably the most unstopped of offense of force in the league. And Kyrie next to him and they really jolt last year. So the talent is
there. I love the additions they made. They get to the finals. They took advantage of some things. I think to get there, but they didn't. A lot of people probably are not going to pick them to to return to the finals or win or win a championship. And I look at what they added and I just think they upgraded in the areas that they needed to significantly Clay Thompson and look, neither one of these guys shot the ball very well at all in the preseason. I'm not going to put too much stock in
that new team, you know, new place. Everything feels a little different and it's preseason. Let's see what happens in a regular season. Clay Thompson's got to shoot a lot better than he did in preseason. I can tell you that for what I'm saying to be true. I just think the level of shooter that he is is such an upgrade over the guys that were taking the same shots that he's going to get last year. And Najee Marshall, what he's going to ultimately do when eating up minutes defensively. And
that you know, that taking on that role with the minutes he's going to eat up. He's also a guy that improved his three point shooting pretty dramatically last year. He still doesn't take a lot. His shot attempts are going to be higher this year than any of his career. And so if he, if he did improve last year, the numbers indicated he did. He's career 31. He was 38 last year, but it's just not a big enough sample size. His sample size is going to go up
this year. So if he did actually improve in any way mechanically or just his confidence or whatever it may be. And he shoots that percentage. That's going to be all they're going to need out of him because of what he's going to do defensively. And then Clay Thompson, you know, he's just got to be a guy that's got to be close to 40 or north to 40 from the three because he's going to get really good looks. And if you're talking about a team that went to the finals at him and they got those
two guys back. Kyrie and Luca, they've got that same core of guys they added. They've got the young rim runners. They've got young talent around those two guys and they go out and they upgrade, you know, 40 to 50 minutes a night at those two spots. That's very significant to me. So I think that's that's why I think it's critical that both of those guys have the kind of years that I expect that if they do Dallas Ken, win the Western Conference again and get back to the finals.
I don't think a lot of people are going to pick him to do that. But if Clay Thompson has a year which he shoots 44, 45% from the field close to 40 from the three, you think that's too high. It might be. But I think his shot selection is going to be better on this team than it wasn't Golden State when he was still kind of holding on to who he used to be in that uniform. I think it's going to be different here. He made the change. He knows what he's going into. He knows there's two guys
that's the top of the food chain that are ball dominant guys. I think the shots he get are going to be better. He's going to be a little bit more selective with it. I think his percentages can come up a few percentage points. And I think he can, you know, be in that 40% range from the three as shooting a high volume of threes. If he does that, then that's a win-win big time for Dallas and for Clay Thompson. So Luca can score in bunches and get the team scoring in bunches. Kyrie can get
red hot and scoring bunches. Clay Thompson represents another layer of guy that just gets high. I mean, this is the Clay Thompson experience. He can go cold for extended periods of time. He can kind of blend in for periods. But when he gets hot, it's four or five threes in a row in a quarter. And I look at that and I go, that was a hallmark of the warriors in their heyday that they just had these runs, these five minute stretches where the game was over because it was a 20 to three
run and there was no coming back from it. I think that is one of the things he's going to bring to this team. I don't know if it'll be consistency. But I think the maps might have the mantle this year. I mean, the Celtics are going to have it as well because they're just the phenomenal team. But those two teams to me might have the biggest haymaker punch and you just don't know when it's going to come. But I think that's one of the things he brings to the team. There's maps will have a
lot of these 12-bow runs, 20 to five runs that just break a team's back. Yeah, I completely review you. And he's got and he is he can get that hot on given nights at a level unlike anything they had on the roster last year outside of the top two guys. And that's what Clay Thompson can do. Now he's going to have other nights. Look, he's not the same. We know that. He's not as efficient as he used to be. And he's going to have also not only nights, he's going to have stretches of games.
Where he goes three games and really shoots poorly from the field. That's what we expect now from Clay Thompson. But again, I think when when you just increase the quality of shot for a guy with a stroke this good, I still think he's got a lot of highly efficient nights in him. I don't think he's toast. He's not the same defender he was, but he's not he's not at coffee table either. He's still a guy that can that can be more than adequate defensively. He's not a stopper.
Combine with Najim Arsolo who can really defend. And again, I'm curious to see what his three point numbers look like with a higher volume. I obviously I really like the Dallas Mavericks, but I don't know that they they are going to get back to the finals if they don't have an also I could phone Quentin Grimes in this conversation as well. And that's another addition. Another guy that guards and shoots it. It's going to play a lot of minutes. I could have I could have had a three-headed
monster for this answer honestly. Quentin Grimes is very important to them too is another guy that can get hot and can guard. So you're not playing guys at the expense of the other end of the floor. I think they had some guys last year that that was the case either way. Some guys were just all fed to play some guys were just better defensively. And then they really hurt him on the other end of the floor. I don't think any of these three guys hurt them on either end. All three guys can
guard adequately and all three guys can score. And I think that that's why the depth of the Dallas Mavericks to me is more impressive than it was a year ago. With Onnaji Marshall, you know, one thing about him is he's one of the toughest dudes in the NBA. Like I don't know basketball tough. I think he's tough, but I think outside of that, I've just been told he's a very almost imposing intimidating figure because he is not afraid of anything or anyone. And I think that's an important
you're it's important to have somebody like that on your roster. What do you think? How important and how much can one player bring toughness to a unit? Not that Dallas wasn't tough last year, but I don't know that I would have given him toughness. Like I said, oh, that's a tough team.
How much can one player change that? He could change it a lot because I think I think I love this question because I, you know, there are guys that fell to that category I played with and played against and there's you go down the league now and see guys dotted throughout the league on certain rosters. It matters. It changes the total physicality about your team when you have guys that play the way they do and are serious in their approach to what they're doing is not you Marshall is.
And I think that's something that they could use because I don't know that we look at that team necessarily. Like you said, and say that's a tough group. I don't know that that word would come to mind for the Dallas Marics. You're very, very, very talented and they're led by a guy that's like no real answer for defensively in Luca that sets the whole table. But now you go on,
you add a guy like this that's sort of an enforcer type wing defender. It matters a lot in terms of the carryover to other role players on their roster and their commitment to it and how hard they work in the weight room, how serious they are in their approach every day when they walk into building. I think it matters. Let's move on now to the next team we're going to talk about which is the Oklahoma City Thunder and their swing factor. We're hitting the contenders here,
at least four of the contenders. Chat home grin, another surprise kind of like you had with Anthony Edwards because I feel like chat home grin. I kind of know what we're getting out of them even though he only had one season under his belt. So why did he make your list here as a swing factor? Well, and I think we're going to we're going to have to wait a little while for what I'm about to
say to really be seen or come true because of the injury to heart and Stein. But I think ultimately what Isaiah heart and Stein is going to bring for chat home grin is this and I actually already did a breakdown on this from the preseason of some plays where Isaiah heart and Stein was on the floor with chat and Isaiah heart and Stein was the guy that was gobbling up the bigger guys on
the floor with the physical contact and the wrestling matches on the glass. That was chat home grin last year and I could go back and show you a lot of film where chat home grin was bullied because of his lack of just just brawn and and weight. He's he's athletic and he's long and certainly you know a very very good team defender and did a very good job on the boards as a rookie.
You think about you add a heart and Stein to the mix. Eating up that contact means that chat home get a lot of times is going to be roaming more freely on the offensive and defensive glass. I think that's something we're going to notice. He's going to get he be getting more
unencumbered defensive rebounds that are going to lead to faster offense for Oklahoma City. I think he's going to have better offensive rebounding opportunities because the biggest guy in the court is going to be dealing with heart and Stein and that's going to give chat home again some freeruns to the rim against guys that are more built like he is and I think you're going to see
all that length and athletic ability really blossom this year in ways that it did a year ago. I don't know if there'll be some huge spike in his numbers because he's still playing with you know Shay Gildes Alexander jail of Williams like you bring heart and Stein into the mix is going to get touches right. They have some three point shooters on that team. Caruso's in the mix now. I
don't know that his numbers go crazy. I just think watching him will be more impactful than it was a year ago more nights and I think that's the Isaiah heart and Stein effect on shed hungry and playing more which should be his natural position which is playing the four in the NBA. I think he's going to win a lot of those matchups physically and be able to do things physically that were a little bit
harder for him against centers and probably not wear him out as much too. But we're not going to see that. I don't know how long heart and Stein's out I believe like six weeks or something is what they said. But we're going to have to wait a little while to see this. But if that's the case at Chet Hongren like is able to increase his impact in that regard on a team that was the number one seed in the Western Conference. You can see with that could lead to that and a lot of people are
going to pick Oklahoma City to be in the finals. That's not going to surprise me at all. I think Chet Hongren is a big reason why he has to continue to grow and I think that you're going to see that this year being in your position that's more natural to him at the NBA level. You think his three point rate will skyrocket this year when he's playing more for just you think about where does he stand on the court. I think I hear it's a lot of the pick and roll threat there. So he's
rolling to the rim. Do you think he's going to be a guy that is going to be taking more I think it took four per game last year. Is that number going to go up a lot? Yeah, I think it will and I think what you're saying is you know, heart and Stein is going to be the pick dive guy. And so to play that with Shay and heart and Stein right it's going to require multiple guys to engage in the ball and then you're going to have a week side guy cover the slip by heartstein. Well that used to be
Hongren on that slip or pick and pop now Hongren's in the next slot over. So when heartstein dives and two guys are on Shay and one guy has to come from the week side to pick up heartstein on the dive Hongren's the guy that's going to be rotating like from the wing to the top of the key catching the ball and getting a lot more space and time to toe it up and he's already very very
high percentage shooter all over the floor. He's very selective and when he shoots I think those numbers do go up and I think a three point percentage is going to be good enough that maybe that's where the main spike in his offense comes from. In addition, I think to getting a more active on the offensive glass in his totality of putbacks over the course of this season. It's not something that's like, you know, he's not going to average five more points of game because of offensive rebounds,
but you don't have to. If you're getting an extra opportunity a game for a putback, there's two points right there and over the course of a season. It has up because suddenly he might have five, six, seven offensive rebounds. I think that's going to happen for Chen Hongren this year. One of the I think that's an important part of it because one of the things with the poor zingas is of the world. Some of these skinnier longer bodies players is one way you match up with them
is just put a smaller player on them and say, you know, it treat him like a guard. I'm really tall guard. You're not going to block his shot at the perimeter, but you can just put it there. And I think that's the biggest way you punish them and say if you're going to do that and just play four smalls, one big guarding heart andstein, well, then we're going to grab all the boards and I'm not sure if that's in his wheelhouse or not, but we'll see it. One thing I know he prides himself on
is his handle. And we see it every summer he's working on it. He actually has a great handle to his credit. He had a great handle last year, but did not overuse it. But I wonder if that's a part of his game that could become like just a little bit more. Okay, year two, let's give him a few more opportunities to dribble face up, dribble and try to create. I think that's a part of his game where if he's going to become the best version of himself individually five years from now, that's a big
part of his game. And if it that's the case this year, we see more of that. Yeah, that's that's a really good point. And I think it's really fair in looking for that as the season progresses. There's not much Adam that you can dissect about Oklahoma City that you don't love. Yeah, so you know, I don't think if you took a general consensus out of everybody in our line of work that has to make predictions on stuff like this before the season, I think I might be surprised
if Oklahoma City doesn't get the most votes to go to the finals. I'll be there. Right? Yeah, I mean, I just think look at the year they had a year ago and I at no point did I really buy into them getting the finals a year ago despite the regular season success we talked about it a lot. Just how young they were to take that step, you know, in three rounds in the Western conference
against that level competition, I didn't see that as likely. You go out and you address critical needs got bigger added another guy they talk about adding like toughness into your locker room and want to and you bring in an out of it's caruso. It seems like all of the components are there in addition to that youth that we talked about as a debt from it a year ago in terms of getting the the finals. Well, they're all just one year older one year more mature one year hungrier
because of the way their season ended a year ago. Add it all up. But I think they're going to be the consensus pick to get to the finals. Yeah, I think so too. And one last thing on him handling the ball more, you know, one thing that Denver is really good at those inverted pick and rolls because if you run a one five pick and roll chat chat the center position a one five pick and roll. Oklahoma City doesn't really struggle generate switches, but teams can get around that.
When you invert it, it puts everybody in the opposite positions. All of a sudden now your guard is showing on screens. They're not used to doing that. They're not great at doing that. And I just look at it again. I don't think that becomes a staple of your offense. They have their staples in their offense, but that's another wrinkle that could just make it even more impossible not to switch. And we all know how good Shay is when he gets a switch. I mean, he just kills whoever
is trying to guard him on those switches. So it's something I'd be curious to see if they run for him this year. Let's get to our last player, which is Jamal Murray. I've been asking why is there these players on your list? But I know the answer to Jamal. There's no player in the NBA that is better at their peak and worse at their average, in my opinion, than Jamal Murray. And I have to imagine that's how you feel as well that he's on this list because if you get the best version of
him, forget all the noise. Denver's a contender and they might even be a favorite, but if he's his average all year, it might be kind of tough. Is that more or less the thinking? That's basically it. And I think, so I'm going to start this answer by asking you a question. Do you agree with me that it's pretty clear? The top three teams in the Western Conference or Oklahoma City Dallas, Minnesota? I think so. I mean, I give Denver and I even give Phoenix a little bit of a nod here
to enter that. I would not be surprised if either of those teams were in it, but if I were to pick, I would pick those three teams you just mentioned. Okay, so would I. And the reason I put you, Jamal Murray on this list because he is that important in whether Denver breaks into that group. Is it going to be Denver? Is it going to be Phoenix? Well, I actually am really excited to see and I got I'm calling their first game against the Clippers on Wednesday night. So I'm so glad
I'm early in the season. Yeah. And ESPN double head or Wednesday. I'll be doing the second game with Dave Pash. Really excited about that and seeing Phoenix because I just felt like Phoenix of the teams that have like that top talent, you know, like at the top of their roster in this league, I felt like they were probably as far away from what they could be at their best as anybody in the league last year. So so I can't wait to see a new version, new coach at some new
pieces. I think better chemistry with Durant Booker and Beale like all of that stuff. So maybe it's Denver. Maybe it's Phoenix. I'm leaving anybody out. Hey, maybe it's Memphis that gets into that group. I mean, they're a big they're big wild card X factor, I think in the Western covers, you know, it is New Orleans. Did they get it all together this? I got I don't know who that's going to be, but I've said to you from the beginning about the Denver Nuggets.
They didn't feel like a one championship group to me. It just didn't. They just they get the best player in the league. They had youth at their other pieces with enough maturity, but still young, not super beat up, great chemistry and led by, you know, Yokecchin his ability to
read defenses or on everything through him and everything just fit. So if I believe that they can still contend, I've got to believe Jamal Murray is going to be the main reason why, because he's going to be closer to the version of himself that season than he was at times when
he's either limited or hobbled or whatever it may be over the last couple of years. He's that important because he's that good and his the combination of he and Yokecchin together is that difficult for defenses to deal with and it allows everybody else in their starting lineup to sort of stay in their lane and do what they do when Jamal Murray is really humming and cooking offensively.
So I guess it comes down to this Adam, do you think we see that version for the most part, not all the time, you might even be banged up even going in, but for the most part, do we see the better version of Jamal Murray this year to the extent Denver is still a contender in the Western Congress? I think we're going to see it earlier than ever before this year because I think Jamal Murray knows that this is, you know, everybody's talked about what an awful playoffs he
had. Everybody's talked about what an awful Olympics he's had, like he has the most criticism coming his way of his entire career. So I think he's going to be dialed in. If you look at his career numbers, October and November are atrocious. I think it's like 14 points a game or something like that he averages in those months and then as the season goes on, he gets better and better. I think that this year he comes out of the gate really, really strong. The question is, can he
sustain that? Because another part of Jamal Murray's career so far is that he has gotten injured at some point in the season for the every season for the last four or five. So I look at that and I go, that is the big question now is is he in shape motivated and has he worked on his body over the years enough to be able to sustain 82 games? It's really tough for players to do that. But what I think legs is underrated about Jamal Murray's game. He is really, really, really good at reading the
court. And you run the two man action as much as they do. You're going to become elit at reading the court and Yokech gets the lion's share of the credit rightfully so one of the smartest players of all time. But when those two are at their best, they're both reading the court in sync together and they're both making the plays and Jamal Murray's a huge part of that. Think about the bubble, think about the finals and the conference finals the year they won the title. Those two teams
were a pick your poison. No matter what you did, they both read it in real time, lightning quick and got baskets out of it. And I think that when you just people often will say the shot, the handle, the, you break it down into that. How you read the court is as important if not more important than all of those. And at his best, he's as good as anyone. That's a great point. I've always kind of admired his basketball IQ. And I think he's very decisive. Their whole team is decisive. It's what,
it's what kind of makes them who they are offensively and why they're so fun to watch. And their IQ is so high in their collective when they're playing at their best. So the question just is how many nights, how frequently can Jamal Murray get there? And maybe even more importantly than that, Adam, is, is he feeling that way and in that state of mind physically and mentally April 15th? Right? That's
what really we're talking about here. That's when it's going to matter. That's when you're going to have to have him against the number of teams you're going to have to beat in the Western Congress. I personally don't think the contending days are over for the Denver Nuggets. I still think because of who they are and, and, and, you know, their best player that gives you a chance every night.
But Jamal Murray gives you a chance not to just be competitive in the league. They give you a chance to potentially win the whole damn thing because playing them at the best of seven if he's healthy and in a good state and in a good rhythm. I mean, you could pick them against any team, any of those top three teams that I just mentioned. In fact, you probably would pick Denver against those teams in the best of seven if Jamal Murray gets to the playoffs and at the start of the playoffs,
he's not hobbled by anything physically. We're not talking about anything. He's dealing with or, you know, in a bad night, we say, we're memories dealing with such and such. No, just take that out of the equation. That's not part of the vernacular. It's just Jamal Murray healthy and playing. Then Denver still has a great chance. And I think, I think he's going to get there. I also think he's pretty determined to do it. I think he's probably been hearing a lot of the noise, man.
And I think he's going to, yep, he's going to, he's going to show, I think, how much he's been paying attention and what he wants to prove this year because he's too young to just now, from this point on, just sort of, you know, descend into mediocrity, you know, handfully years down the road. He's still got a lot of years left, I think in this late to play at a really high level. Important. And he gets this back on track this year because then Denver is a team. We'll be
talking about all season. Let me ask you one last question on him. He ranked 64th in three point field goal attempts last year. 64th. He's a great three point shooter. He shot 42% last year. But the volume is always low. And I think this is a superstar trait. Superstars are scoring from all over. He's a three level scorer. But Denver doesn't have a lot of shooting. Do you think he needs to up his three point attempts this year? And if so, where do those threes come from?
I'm not sure that he does because I think to do that, you take away the middle area of the floor, which is so good at. He's such a good mid range pull up jump shooter. And the way that they run their ball screens and where they run them, they run a lot of ball screens inside the three point line with Yokech, whether or not all extended out 30 feet on the floor, where a lot of guards like to come off of that and pull or the guy goes under a little stop and pull. Denver runs
there's a little bit tighter. And it's because of Jamal Murray's ability, the way he could control his body and the ball to come off of those and get just that little bit of separation for the lean back 18 footer. It's a big part of his game. So I think, look, if it organically happens, because player X is getting more attention or they're just the way the teams are guarding them, and it's there or he's being dared to shoot that shot, take it because he's got a high,
high likelihood, he's going to make that shot. But I don't want him necessarily going into the season thinking he needs to change that because that could take away one of his main strengths, which is ability to shoot the ball from, you know, 15 to 21 feet. I think I actually agree with you on that one. I think his three point rate is about right
at about what it should be. And this year, I want to see him get to the rim. He actually got to the rim better his first three seasons, you know, since the injury naturally, you know, he's gotten to the rim a little bit less. But I think that his explosiveness and some of the strength in his legs is back, maybe not to where it was before the injury, but better than it was in the last two years. And I want to see him get to the rim and finish and dunk the ball. By the way,
I think he had 19 dunks last year. I'd love to see that number get up to like 3040. That just tells you the explosiveness is getting back. We had one super chat, James. What was it? I saw it come in. I think it's basketball. Cthulhu once again. He always gives us a secret. Yeah. That's our here. It's basketball. Cthulhu once again. Basketball Cthulhu wonders if ants commitment to the game
will be questioned if he doesn't take that leap. And plus the football quote the other day, sadly, he can't pull a neon Dion because football plus B ball overlap more than basketball. So interesting one here. Did you see that quote? By the way, where he said, if I win a title in the next four or five years, I'm going to play basketball. Yeah. Yeah. I did see that. Yeah. I took that. Oh, wow, James going all over the screen. Look at that. Super chat is just floating
around. It's extra long one. I'm sorry, guys. It's all good. It's all good. So legs real quick. I don't know if ants commitment and competes, man. One thing I'll say is guys can have other hobbies in the NBA. Guys can have other interests. I care about if you compete, if you're focused, you execute. And that guy, you can question a lot of people's competition level. He competes every night to me. Yeah. I don't think you'll question his commitment. Look, if you're saying I need to question
was if he doesn't add the things we were talking about, a little bit of that refinement. Listen, there are a lot of guys historically in this league that were great athletes and showed a lot early and couldn't get there just because not everybody can. It's not guaranteed no matter how much, you know, you work on certain aspects of your game that you're going to necessarily reach a elite level in those things. Not everybody can do that. So I don't think it's going to be for lack
of effort, a lack of trying because I think Anthony Edwards is going to do that. I think he's committed to do that. And it's just a matter of now, let's sit back and wait and see. Can he pull it off because not everybody does, you know, some guys get to a certain level and it's still a really high level and then they kind of stay there because that's they're really good at that. And that's good enough to be one of the better players in the league and to be on good teams and all that
stuff. That's not what we're talking about with him. And I don't think it's going to be a question of it because number one, I think he will get there. And two, I just think regardless, it's not going to be because he's not putting the time in. All right, let's wrap up. Great show today. A lot of fun, by the way, talking about these swing factors. Tomorrow, our last show of theoretical basketball, and we're going to be breaking down some superlatives, best starting five, best
duo's best passers. I'll hold on to other topics as well as talking about who we think has the inside track on all NBA this year. And it's our last predictive episode. After that Wednesday show is going to be on the actual games. I can't wait for that one. Everybody, thanks for tuning in. If you're new, we're doing this four times a week. Make sure you subscribe. Make sure you leave a comment and like down below for the algorithm. Help us grow this show. Hit that like button
for us on the way out. We'll see you next time.