Am I flipping you enough? Am I doing this enough? Like I feel like I get I feel like maybe I'm critiquing my top performance more than my bottom performance because I think the bottoming work for me happens before, whereas the topping happens.
During correct Yeah, it's like pre production work and then production work.
Yes, you know what, this is a safe space to talk about relationships, love and sex. Now let me tell you something messy, juicy, messy, jesy. Here you go. So, I, you know, it was getting dressed for at do fittings for the News show recaving the Magala, and so I had my outfit which was this des perro black suit with shorts covered in flowers, with a with a silver
bow tie and just you know, giving fashion honey. So I had it hanging up in the bedroom and Matthew comes home and he walks into the bedroom and sees it, and you know, is gagging over it, and we're you know, talking about it and talking about non binary fashion, and you know how I try to express how I have to like wear these suits sometimes, but I always when I'm wearing a suit for these traditional panels like the News Show, I want to subvert it. Somehow to really
express my non binary identity. And so then we got on the topic of a date that Matthew went on. I don't know why I'm whispering, but he wanted this date, an underwhelming date, as he would describe it, and he when he went first one, he didn't tell me why,
which I never probe. You know, we kind of only talk about those things if one it feels like it's going to impact our relationship or there's something to process, and so if it's just kind of like a random date, you know, we don't really talk too much about it. But because we were talking about the non binary fashion, he was like, oh, I had this experience and I wasn't sure if I should tell you about it. I was like, oh, give me the tea, come on, give me key ki.
Uh.
Sometimes we're such we're just like, uh, just like two dolls a kikiing about boys, which is my favorite. So on the date, they got on the topic about uh, just non binary people and dressing and let's calluse the date Lucas. So Lucas then goes, I just don't get it, like I don't get why they dressed like that, and then Lucas proceeds to tell Matthew that an example, He's like, for example, there is this guy that goes to my gym. He's like this six foot beautiful black man, but he
wears sports bras, and like, I don't get it. It's like he wants attention. It just like goes on and goes on and on, and I'm dying, and Matthew goes, I think you're talking about my partner, which I can confirm who was because it's my gym. It was in my jim and I am the only six foot one black malebody that wears sports bras, and so obviously Lucas was immediately mortified. Which the lesson here is, do not talk shit about people. Don't go on a date and
start talking. First of all, that to be is crazy. To call on a date and start talking shit about a community of people is crazy. That's like a first red flag. But like, don't do that. But anyways, but this like frustration gaze can have some gays, let's say, can have with non binary folks, or this this threat, I think it's a threat. They feel threatened. I'm gonna
say the thing. I'm gonna just say it and call it plane right, because this idea that it's for attention, and I know women you do with this too, men thinking that everyone is dressing for their fucking attention. Baby. No, no, there's nothing about me wearing a sports bra that is for the attention of men. In fact, I would say that it's weeding the the assholes out because I know
that the men. How do I say this if you're listening to this podcast, is probably not about you, okay, but I know that the constitution of men is so weak and fragile that me and a sports bra really can provoke them and not I'm not trying to provoke,
but I recognize that it makes them short circuit. I'm gonna tell you right now, I have about three reactions that I get when I'm in a sports bra, and I'm gonna write more about this on subsack, so I'm write a whole essay and tell you everything about this in detail. But either it's like go off this, you look great, love that, where I get one you know what I'm saying, which shout out to those gays love
you and those men straight guys too, love you. It's also then a hyper masculinity that gets triggered like they become more masculine around me, scowling, disgusted, even rude, like uh, I just it's subtle, but but I can feel it. Like listen, I'm still six to one, so they ain't gonna try it. I'm still six one eighty pounds, Okay, noting I'm trying to then, but like there's a rudeness
that is felt. And then there's a third, which is like an in between, which is like, it's clear that you're attracted or not even sexually attracted, but just like you're attracted to this braw on my body, but you don't think that you're allowed to be. And so there's just like a vacant staring that happens, like a short circuiting, all of which go off. All of it's fine, None of it is for you. It is all for me.
I wear a sports raw, uh, for a reclamation of my own sexiness, on my own beauty, and for because I love to live in the I don't want to call it the in between, because it's like it's really outside of gender, inside of gender, around above below, it's all of it's all of it. I love to live at the intersections of my masculine and my feminine and my divine, if you will, And so a sports bra is a real simple way for me to do that. But I just thought it was so messy, and Matthew
handled it like a pro, as we always do. You know, we're we're thoughtful, and so there's there's grace to be given. You know, anyone who's curious and wants to evolve, we gonna give you grace. But I do think that the most dangerous men to me are some of the most dangerous men to me are those who are in marginalized groups and where that marginalization as a whole pass to not have to reflect on their own privileges and the ways in which they can be harmful. Does that make sense.
So if you are a straight black man who is unaware of your privilege, if you are a white gay man who is unaware in marginalized groups, but you are unaware of the privilege that you still hold and don't reflect on that and don't think that there are things for you to dismantle or ways in which you can be harmful, then you're not showing up as supportive. You're not showing up in ways that are able to nurture and take care of and be additive to the movement
of liberation. Does that make sense? We all have a role to play. I'm in this male body. I understand that I have privilege. I understand that I have male privilege. So there are ways in which I can show up for women and for fems, for trans folks, right, And if I don't, if I am just so wrapped up and well, I'm black and non binary, and I have a lot of oppression. If I'm wrapped up in that, then I can't show up for the other people who are also experiencing oppression, and some to an even greater
degree than I am. So two things get to be true at once. I can be from an oppressed group and experience oppression and experience disrespect and marginalization and things that are unfair, But I can also perpetuate that to other groups if I'm not aware, and so to my gay men. And I think that if you're listening to this podcast, you already doing your work. But in case you're not, let this be a moment to encourage you to say, Hey, how am I showing up? What's the
reflection that I'm doing? Am I taking care of my trans brothers and sisters. Am I taking care of my non binary counterparts? Am I taking care of women? Am I taking care of men that may be of a different race or ethnic background than I? Am? Am I taking care of people who may not have the same access or privilege as me. Whether that it's also talking about class and money and and all these other all
these identity politics. I'm not saying you need to beat yourself over the head, but do understand that you are not exempt from doing the work. And if you think you are exempt, then you find yourself on a date talking shit about some non binary person at your gym to their partner. Okay, and that's crazy. You don't want that made me? You don't want that. Okay, all right, let's get the show started. Where's that? Maybe you know
what that means? It is time for a guess now, while they get situated, and before we do our home manifesto, I want to remind you that I would love, love, love, love, love love for you to rate, review, and subscribe to this podcast. It really helps us expand the show, get the show to more listeners. And it only takes a second. And when you review it, you ain't got to write anything long. You could just be like, I love this show, I love Brandon. Learning about sex is fun, relationships are cool,
all that stuff. Okay, so do me your favorite rate review and subscribe again. It really helps the show, and I thank you so much in advance. All right now time, but a who manifest Stoe grant me the serenity to unpack my shame, the courage to heal, the wisdom to know that sex is not about penetration, the audacity to advocate for my pleasure and my boundaries, the strength to not call my ex that fuck boy, fuck girl or four. It is better to masturbate by myself in peace than
to let someone play in my mother fucking face. Let the home unity say ho, helujah. I am so excited to have Cody Rigsby and Andrew Chappelle on the show You Know beloved fitness instructor Cody Rigsby from your peloton screens as the king of pop culture, hot takes and the ultimate relationship Guru. He was the second runner up on the thirtieth season of Dancing with the Stars, and
he co hosted the Glad Media Awards. He recently added New York Times bestselling author to the resume with his debut book, Xoxo Cody, An Opinionated Homosexuals Guide to self love, relationships, and Tactful Pettiness. Andrew Chappelle is a queer, black and indigenous creator born and raised in Los Angeles, California. In twenty twenty two, Andrew wrote and produce Fanatic, a short film directed by Taran Killim that made its rounds in
the twenty twenty three festival season. More recently, he appeared in the first two seasons of the critically acclaimed Stars series Blind Spotting as the short tongued and lovable character Scottie. He also played the role of Spitfire fellon j Lo in Showtimes Escape at Dana Mora opposite Paul Daniel and Benicio del Toro. Furthermore, he guest starred on Moesha, Fuck Yes, and Amazon's The Tick Please Help Me. Welcome Cody and Andrew. Hi, Cody and Andrew. Y'all do are you good?
We're great, We're fantastic.
The weather has finally turned here in New York like we are, like the sky is blue.
It's shorts and yes.
I love blooming.
It's gorgeous here in New York.
I love it. We'll take the win where we can get him now period, We're gonna have a conversation. But let me give you our messy mandates. Okay, So things get to be unprocessed, and he thought or opinions shared have the right to shift, change or evolve today, tomorrow or ten years from now. And if during the key key something feels too personal or unintentionally offends, we used to say ford foosball, which gives us a chance to pause, pivot, and address accordingly.
Sound good, alright, worry, I was wondering how I would pivot out of my messy moment.
Just say football football, All right. Let's start with the word.
Is that you're safe for it during like kinky sex?
Yeah, I would say, because I just have too much in my head. So yes, I use foosball across the board. If you ever hear me say foosball, come save me. All right. Let's start with the lube breaker. Yeah, yes, okay, smash or wait a lube breaker? Yes, yeah, baby, we love our lube. Okay, So smash or pass candle wax play pass past.
Maybe when I'm at unik wax and they're taking the hairs off of my butt cheeks.
That is enough pain. Okay, I don't like that. That's too much. It hurts I.
Pulling off the hair though, girl Like it's like, you know, like massage oil, like a little dribble on your someone.
That's not very kinky. I'm just it's just not it's not for you.
Before I answer Brandon, yeah, I'm I'm interested in this. Tell me, can you just tell me a little before I say smash your pass?
Like yes, what would that be?
So it could? So there are candles that the wax turns into like a massage oil. So it's like you could be on you know, your back or your stomach and somebody drizzles a little bit of that onto your body and they rub it in. It's more temperature play, so it's like the sexiness of the heat. Sometimes, you know. The opposite of that would be like ice or using you know, giving a blow job with an ice cube in your mouth if somebody wants to have that cold sensation.
So when it when it drips on you, is it extremely heart Does it hurt?
No?
It's like me, well you can't. That's why you're not using like a Martha Stewart candle you're using like a specific candle that is that turns into uh into like a massage oil.
And please answer me this, Yes, can said, wax that turns into massage oil also be used as loop.
That's a great question. I don't have that answer off the top of my head, but I would imagine, so why not? I would say, I don't know.
I like I like this. Yeah, massage is fine.
And if it can be used as lube, then smash if it cannot pass. And I would just like to say that olive oil can be lube and coconut oil.
Cocon oil for sure. You're in a jiffy and you didn't you didn't, you didn't know. I use Olive oil is a great moisturizer. You put that in your face?
Ask Yeah, like cooking. Olive oil you put on your face, you get like a specific.
Wait face, No.
Yeah you can face.
You could belive oil on your face, not a lot, but like a little just like a little dab and rub it in. I guess the thing what appeals to me about this this wax play that you speak of, is uh that joking massage?
Well?
No, that like jolt that you get when you have an extreme temperature, right, yes, yeah, yeah, that's something that kind of excites me about the I'm like, oh, it's a little hot.
You gotta get you a candle. Trying that I might have to give me a cand I think you'll enjoy. I think you'll enjoy harm. Why smash or pass being tied up? I know you don't like kinks, but is that too far?
I've never done I've never done it. But I could be down smash, I could be down and smash.
Mind just smash. I also really like to do the tying.
Oh talk about it, daddy, Okay, okay. I have a fantasy of like getting into ropes more like I want to be like roped up motherfucker. But anyways, we just.
Say, can we just say we're so happy we get to like really do we don't get to do the stuff on our podcast like this?
Yeah, this is it refreshing.
Yes, absolutely, smash, re pass double penetration, receiving or giving smash wow wow? Receiving or giving giving giving?
Hear me.
The pause?
These maybe a small moment, but it's not okay, okay, okay, cool, I have given. I've never received what I'd like to I see, I see the trepidation.
I see.
I see.
I'm open to it, open to it, been open enough to do it.
Wowow, she did that. Beautiful. You're interested, but you're interested anyways. You won the game. Congratulations.
Oh my god, we won.
Participation trophies exactly.
If y'all have prompts or games, you can email me at tell me Something Messy at gmail dot com. Speaking of which, Andrew Cody, who wants to tell me something messy? First?
Oh right, okay, I can tell my messy story. I want to preface this story by saying I was in my early twenties.
Yeah, mine's also in my early twenties.
It was New York.
I had just gotten back to New York. I'd been on tour for a year, and I was looking good. I was feeling really fierce. I was unemployed, I was out. I was on this rooftop as I used to do in my twenties. Met this really hot guy from the Netherlands.
Oh he just was I say something, I do love a Dutch boy, and I think it is because of the specific amount of foreskin that they have that I've experienced.
Wow, I really enjoy that.
I met from the Netherlands.
He was.
He was everything that I that I tend to enjoy in an aesthetic of a person, and he really we really connected on this rooftop he was visiting and he was like, look, I'm really liking you.
I'm here with my friends right now.
He was like, but I would really love if we can hang out again while I'm here, and like really really hang out.
And I was like, okay, great.
So we start texting.
We agree we're going to meet at this bar called x It was called XL XL at the time.
Yeah, And I said, great, I'll meet you at XL.
So I get to EXCEL and I'm there and he's not there, and he's like, I'm huh, where was XL forty second.
Forty second Street all the way on the west side. It used to be like a big club, especially where like the circuit parties were.
And then oh, okay, it's also a hotel.
Oh the gay hotel.
Hotel?
Yes XL.
Oh yeah, right go ahead, go ahead.
Yeah, I said, we said we're going to meet at EXL. I get to Excel at the time we agreed on. He doesn't show up, so I was like, I think he's coming but I'm going to have a drink just to kind of like.
Get calmed down.
Yeah, calm down, chill. So I have one drink. I drink fast so that I had another drink. Now, mind you remember at the beginning of the story, I'm cute in this era and standing at a bar drinking by myself.
Somebody came and started hollering at me.
Okay, so I knew I had the cutie on the way, but I was like, well, I don't know if he's gonna come. I've already been waiting for an hour. Here's an hour, And so I started already waiting for an hour.
It felt like hudos, you know, thirtyish minutes whatever. I had been a long time before you could share someone's location exactly. So anyhow, so I started canoodling with this new man. We get on the dance.
Floor, and he was doing what we liked the men to do on the dance floor, absolutely in walks, Netherlands, and I was reminded of.
The beauty she ran.
From the Netherlands.
And I said, and I looked at this other guy, said well, now what is going on here?
So I excused myself artfully.
The guy that I had recently met, didn't know that I had left him to go be with Netherlands. And with the Netherlands, and we have we're starting to hit it off a little bit, and then he excuses himself to go to the bathroom. The first guy comes and swoops me, starts making moves. Netherlands comes back from the bathroom, sees me in the throes of passion with the new guy.
It is so upset.
He's like, I can't believe you did this to me. I thought you were so special. I came here just for you. This was supposed to be our night, and now you do this to me. He's like, I will never forget this. I will never forgive you, and he storms out. So I went home with that guy, the first guy, and then.
And it was it was awful. It was horrible. He was he had not cleaned out. We were both really drunk.
It was his apartment was awfuls.
For a frog, literally literally, But listen, Netherlands was in the right, like baby, yeah, like I came here for a date with you and you're already canoodling and making up with Then the boy when I went to the bathroom.
But he was also late. He was also like an hour late.
It's a messy moment, and but like you could have gotten the frog's number and like, hey, I'm actually meeting someone for a day. Let's let's meet another time. You know, like come on, But you were young and dumb.
It was a messy moment. It is my one. It is my one. Messy Okay, don't be so generous.
Wow, thank you for that, Thank you for that. Cody.
I was also I think I was actually nineteen. It's my first summer in New York City.
I had.
Gone out to a club named Splash Rip oh Rip. This was two splash that was a dope vibe one as Britney Spears is performing, I say, I could go for it. Okay, uh and the shower shows work.
Yes.
My gentleman at Splash I went home with him.
I well, he was also visiting. I think he was British.
Okay.
Foreskin was involved the maatics of that podcast. And I had to go to work to the next day because I was working at a lampshade store and.
I was paide.
Was broke as fuck at the time.
I had come to New York with maybe like six hundred dollars in my in my bank account and just like trying to figure it out.
And so we did the deed.
He fell asleep and while he was sleeping, I gathered my things and I left, but on my way out, I grabbed the cash that was on his dresser because a bitch needed cab money.
So you're a thief.
Yes, yes, yes, I was proud of it.
You travel, It was fine. I love that you prostituted yourself.
Yes. Wow, that's incredible. That's incredible. So you're a thief. That's name of this episode.
And the gag is I bet you that man didn't even notice the money.
Oh, I'm saying he was.
Probably like he was probably like, oh I was drunk.
I like, I left it fell out of my pocket like he did. He didn't know.
No.
Yeah.
Also that's like so so cash on the nightstand is so like dated, right, We're like, I don't know how much cash I have myself, like really dates the time period, really sick.
Yeah, And listen, listen.
If I were to bring a young man back, I would off and they were had to go, you know, all the way uptown.
I would offer to get them an uber And.
He knew that back he knew he had a young guy there that could have used the forty dollars.
Yeah, he's not mad about that like that.
I mean I could have, but.
Wow, I know this is the same space.
They got both of those stories. Shall we do some messy mail?
Absolutely?
As always, your submissions remain anonymous. Okay, this one says, uh, I purchased my first butt plug and vibe. I'm still nervous to try, but just purchasing them was such a big step for myself. Have y'all ever bought a toy? Do you have toys? Do you remember your first time buying a toy? Oh?
Yes, I have. I have purchased said toys.
I don't do y'all use toys. Let's have that conversation by oneself or together by yourself about yourself.
I have.
It's honestly too much fucking work. I'm trying to clean. I'm trying to clean out to masturbabe, baby, I can jump on the internet and bang one out in three, you know, three minutes. And yeah, a friend of mine loves to use toys, and I'm like.
You're doing all this together just to.
Fucking well and that jack and this toys this friend gives us toys. He's given me a toy before, so yeah that and also I and also together, I don't love it either. I want the real thing. Just give me the real dick. Let's go like big dick.
Oh yeah, no, I'm not using a toy I've used.
I tried, I've I've tried it with a partner I think twice, and both times I was like, this, what are we doing?
What we So actually with a partner was hot for me, like I didn't expect it to be, because it was like we were we were doing the deed and then we switched out to a toy and had me like propped up and it was just like they were using the toy very beautifully and then like made me beg for the thing, for the real thing, and I was like, yes, please, daddy, And then you know, So, actually I found toys to be more useful for me with partnership than by myself.
By myself, I'm like, I'm not cleaning out. There's not really a good penis toy, Like I don't care about the vibes, aren't the vibe vibrating cocker is not.
Oh wait that I that I can fuck with. But it also takes a lot more work where I'm just like I can use my hand, but I get it. I have I have two One I'm not mad at I have to two moments about toys.
One, I got my first toy the Blue Store in Chelsea, Iconic and I honestly went with our friend Juan One took me because because I was so I just like I had bottomed, you know before, like when I was in high school.
But I wanted.
Can you legally buy them in high school?
Well?
No, this is your underage. Can you legally buy a toy? Or is that an eighteen it's eighteen plus?
No? But I didn't.
I didn't have a toy in high school. I like had sex when I was in high school, but gratulations. But when I was when I was older, was living in New York, and I was like, oh, I want to start bottoming more. I was like, I need a toy to kind of start to get used to what's going on. So that was why it was really helpful for me to have a toy at first. Then later later later the toys really came in handy because I'm like, you, guys,
I don't need a toy on a Wednesday. The toys really came in handy when I was in a long distance relationship. We will would you know, have a video or whatever, and then you know that you can there you get a little bit more creative with what's going on, you know, So.
That makes sense, that's fair. Yeah, I feel like toys are really great for Volva owners, Like there are a lot of toys out there for but for the penis owning and the booty hole unless you want to clean out, which again I don't want to clean out.
To that's your own prog.
That's yeah, But if you do, I have best one who does and I and I support it. I'm okay. This one says I got married on Saturday, and I'm pretty sure four of my friends ended the night with an orgy. Have you ever had an orgy at a wedding?
Yes?
Orgy?
Gee?
Fuck?
Yes, yes, let's go.
I don't know about that.
I went to I went to a gay wedding that had a party of all gay men and were single and some were coupled, and we all ended up hooking, not all in the same thing, but everyone was hooking up with everybody. And it was on a resort, So you could go to the room and come.
Back and during the literally during the reception the party.
Were the grooms involved at all?
No, no, no, no, I don't. I wasn't involving myself with the grooms. Sure, myself with the guests.
Because.
Give them at least one night. Oh no, no, I mean thank you. I need agrees.
I wouldn't feel and I wouldn't feel correct involving the grooms.
I'm like, this is like your mom, like like your mom is here, like you know what I mean, Like like, well, this was the friend's wedding. This wasn't the.
Family wedding, so this was it was just friends, it was and all that there were. There were women there though, So.
I bet those grooms got into something.
We don't think that they did. I don't think that they did. I think they're just too and hear me out. I think this was the mentality. It's like, when you host a party, you want everything.
You want your.
Guests to be in a good space and everyone to have fun. So I just don't think that you're yourself being like I'm trying to get I'm trying to fuck sure.
Sure, I've never had an orgy at a wedding.
But I did hook up with a guy at a wedding in the bathroom. Oh it was my friend's wedding here in Brooklyn, and there was like, you know how at the straight weddings there's like another gay there. But this was a guy who we were always we would we would always hang.
Out just through these friends. But did anything.
And you know, sometimes like the wine hits, the light hits, you're both in suits, you kind of look.
Right place, right time.
And we made it happen there in the bathroom during the wedding and came out, and of course everybody.
Knew the gays disappeared for a while.
The two gay guys left and came back and didn't quickly left each other's side.
Yeah, that's pretty obvious.
I love that.
I love that.
What was the question though, was the question like should they be or it's just like, hey, they had an orgy, and this is we.
Had an orgy. My question was have y'all ever done it? But they were just submitting that there was an orginy mad.
Because they weren't involved, or they're just saying their friends had an orgy.
You know, I can't tell the tone because all they says, I'm pretty sure four of my friends ended the night with an orgy, So I mean, I assume they're supportive, but who knows. I mean, I wouldn't be mad. I feel like so. Matthew and I never had a wedding. We just like went to a courthouse in Santa Barbara.
But we've always talked about like doing a wedding at some point, and if I did at this point in my life, I would actually make sure that the wedding set was set up so that that could exist for the guests.
On the premises.
Guys, I also had sex at another wedding.
Oh, she's the weddings talk about it.
It was definitely four Yeah.
Now this is a question what how many participants quantifies a.
That's a great question. We've talked about that. It's I think it's five and above.
Okay, that's what we say too, five and above. So this was technically this was technically just a foursome.
Okay, okay, okay, So a group a group.
Let me listen, something something comes the spirit of love comes over people at weddings. People are it does? Does people people soften at weddings? Yes, people look at each other at the wedding differently, it's.
Don't makes me warny, Let's just say it. It's it's a beautiful it's a beautiful ambiance. There's a lot of love happening, a lot of emotional connection. It's kind of perfect.
And also everyone has gotten ready, like everyone looks good.
Yeah, we are at our best. We are we're showered, we're washed, we're cleaned out. Absolutely. This one says, which you know it's just a submission. I accidentally match with my therapist's husband on tender How you know it's How do.
They know it's their their therapist's husband.
I have questions too, because these I feel like a therapists usually they try to keep a low profile.
They keep it private, right.
Therapist, I wouldn't be.
I mean every every therapist is. It was not did not get an A in med school? Okay, So you know, sometimes the lines be getting blurred and sometimes people be saying too much or.
I think, as you're now as the client, you need to hold the boundary. And then I think that the husband of the therapist, it'd be if he ever finds out, is going to have to step away.
So I was like, why is the therapist so I mean, I guess they could be open, but that is such a weird thing to like.
A hinge or on grinder?
Is it a tender?
So that's grinder basically, Oh, that's right, that's right.
It's like it's it's a glinder with a facade of like relationships.
See I was on Tender. I met Matthew on Tinder, and it was when Tender was actually still a very wholesome place. And I guess, so now it's it's not kinder.
Kinder is grinder with the with the what do you call it? The facade of what's how hinge with hinte?
Okay, so people are there pretending like they're trying to date, but they really just want to fuck you. Wow.
It's like it's like the gaze that go to horse Meat Disco Because it's not a circuit party?
Did they feel okay with going to the party?
And you're like, are you more tweaked out than anybody else here? Like I'm talking about you don't do a circuit party.
It's okay if you go to a party, baby, it's okay.
You need to be this specific one to make you feel good, like just have fun and can just do the all the things you want to do and have fun, and.
Spare me the monologue that you don't go to the circuit party.
You're standing in one.
You're literally here. I've seen you here before.
I don't need you. I don't need this whole long.
Diet tribe about how like it's not really girthing and you don't really do it, like girl, I have seen you move through this room tonight. No, well enough, you know you've been here before.
I've seen. Yeah.
What is a circuit party? It's basically about the music. Is that what people?
Okay, here's the thing to break it down technically, like I understand the distinction between a horse meat disco music and circuit music. Circuit music is in fact of trash. I would say that that's I used to love it, hate it now? Yes, yeah, unless we're in the mood for it once.
Because it was pretty in Miami. Maybe we guess it loves turning me out.
They're giving us the Allegrea music at brunch and we were ready.
To really hit it.
I think a circuit party is a little bit.
More rooted in the old school, because circuit parties kind of came out of the tea dance and they've just been these queer spaces and it's a specific music and it's very I would say it's like very gay, where Yeah to Go Disco is a little bit more gay but also a little queer.
Sure, it's a little bit, it's still very gay. It's still very a touch, yes, it can be.
But I think that.
Usually when people, when people refer to circuit parties in a disparaging way, they're more referring to like the drug usage and the like over sexualized, which like definitely is.
Yeah, okay, the more you have, the more you know. This one says, I have long been a bottom. I don't know if I ever chose that path, but it shows me to go off. My first time having sex, I didn't know what top or bottom really meant, but I met a hot guy and he wanted to put it in and he did and I loved it. Also, no mess Hodelujah. But in hearing you talk about your sexual journey and becoming verse, I was curious about what
that would look like for myself. I've never taught before, but I feel like it's a lot of work and I have anxiety of finishing too soon. But I don't want to deny myself pleasure just because of pre performance anxiety. Can you talk about your journey from bottom to verse? Both the logistics but also the emotional side of things.
Damn loaded, uh, poet laureate poet lauriate.
Loaded loaded in the way we're like, yeah, what do you what do y'all?
I guess that all makes sense.
I like, I feel like that I can relate to that journey, especially as like a young.
Gay, Like, are y'all verse? Do you mind if I asked, I am?
I am very very verse? Okay, very verse.
Cody's more verse than I am.
I'm I am technically verse, but I'm I don't really act on it regularly.
Well, I was gonna say that I would categorize myself as verse top, but I get curious with my need to say that in some sort of like does it is there some sort of shame that I need to like put that like, Okay, I'm versed but like more of a top. But I think it just depends on the partner, and I gravitate towards bottoms more frequently.
So that's that's that. So that's the answer to your question on that.
As far as this person I think all of those worries are I don't want to say legitimate, but they make a lot of sense, especially if you start out as a I've had this conversation though, I feel like I had this conversation with wand like which which position is actually more anxiety inducing because as a bottom, you're constantly worrying if things are not going to go well, you know, like especially in the early days, especially before you figure things out. And then on the other side,
you're like, are you gonna get hard? Are you gonna last long enough? Are you gonna, you know, be able to take control? So it's it's an anxiety on both ends.
I feel like, to me that what you just said, the fact that I don't have anxiety topping tells me I'm more comfortable being a top.
That makes sense, Like it's it's something that I.
Enjoy more on your bottomy, you have the anxiety. I don't have the anxiety if I've prepared myself.
Yeah, but there's always there's always.
Room for error, is a lack of anxiety because you do it less right, Like I had anxiety around topping for a long time. I was a bottom first, but then I became a top, and now I don't have anxiety over either, like both both is more about like in front.
Of even with new partners.
Yeah, I know, yeah, I'm I'm I feel confident in my topping now, which took time to get to, but I feel confident in that. I don't have anxiety about either. It's more so what do I want to do and what does this partner want?
Did your top exploration come through like a partner, like a long time part my uh.
No, it actually happened when we started opening our relationship. So I was a very much a bottom in our in our monogamous relationship, and then we opened it. And I think what happened was that there were guys that I was connecting to because I really love an emotional connection. Doesn't mean I'm trying to be your boyfriend, but I like that that helps me have better, better sex. And
so I was connecting with these guys. But then it's like, oh, they're a bottom than like now we're two bottoms and that, and I was like, I want to be able to, you know, enjoy this with you and not have it stopped because we're too bottoms. So that's where the beginning of exploring began, and I started it with people that the stakes were low, so it wasn't you know, it was just like a.
Random But I think that's also a key word that you said was connection. It's like, you can I think you can have low stakes connection even.
With a with a hookup.
Sure, yea saying it's like even if you meet someone on grinder, it's like, let's go meet for drinks and like let's chat for like an hour and like get to know each other a little bit.
Just go fuck.
It helps and take some of that take some of that off. And I think someone who's exploring wanting to talk more. I think it's it's trying to do it with someone where there is yeah, maybe low stakes and a little bit more connection. It's hard to communicate like I've never done this, but I don't know. I also would find it hot if someone was like, hey, I'm not really been taught, I haven't tapt much and I would really love to like do it with you, do you know what I'm saying?
Yeah, Well, and that's really helpful to say at the top, at the beginning of the interaction, because the person who knows this can be a little bit.
More amenable expectations.
Maybe it's not going to be a flawless performance, but like going to see what's going on here, you know, you know. The listener also said something to the effect of like topping is a lot of work, which like it's interesting because to me, I think that topming is a lot of work. To me that bottoming is a lot of work, is what I was going to What
I was saying is like I think both. It just is a different mindset of like the topping, Yeah, work, you say hard, you got to make sure you lost a certain time, You got to make sure like they're enjoying themselves. What if you're not like rough enough for the type of top that they want, or you're too rough or you're correct.
Topping for me, for me, has more mental aerobics because of that, whereas like bottoming, like once you're in, you're in, and it's mostly I'm dealing with like position and like okay, let's change position. Whereas for topping, I am thinking about like the mental aerobics of don't come right now, or like how am I like again, do you want this? I'm in charge? Which no always sometimes even power a bottom, but like am I flipping you enough? Am I doing
this enough? Like I feel like I get I feel like maybe I'm critiquing my top performance more than my bottom performance because I think the bottoming work for me happens before, whereas the topping happens during.
Correct.
Yeah, it's like pre production work and then production work. Yes, I would say all of those, all of those like mind games that that we just talked about while during topping. I've really only ever experienced those thoughts when I'm having sex with a new person or or I'm having sex with someone that I've wanted to have sex with for a long time, yes, and I want to really impress them and I want to maybe do it again.
So I'm like, well, this has to be the best, and.
So like, yay, you want the first to be impressive so that you're gonna get invited back.
Correct, and so that's where those things and then you're like, you're actually not even performing the way you usually perform because you're in your head.
It's like this has happened to me, but not but not.
There was this guy if it was the cutest, so hot, we hooked up went great second time.
I was so in my fucking head and it just like.
Yeah, so annoying.
I feel like such a flop.
How do y'all get out of your head? Do you have any like tricks to getting out of your head? Or is it still like a thing that you you wrestle with As.
Much of a whore as I am, I would say that, like your statement of like connection and like is important, and like I try to prioritize that a little bit more, even if it's a casual encounter, even it's just a hookup, like trying to make some sort of connection.
And I think even you can.
Do that in the way that you approach, like say it's an app, Like I think even the way that you you know, there's some apps where it's just like, hey, are you free, let's fuck come over right now. You know,
like there's no connection even in that process. But if you can like chat with somebody online, make a few jokes, know a little bit of the interest, have some form of communation, you're already feeling a little bit more comfortable in that situation, then just yes, it's transactional, but there's there's a little substance there, you know.
Yeah, I that's I really prioritize that, like I got over the like, oh let's fuck right now, I realize that those hookups never are as exceptional as I want them to anyway. So the people that I can like make jokes with and whatever, then like we're there's a foundation of communication so that the moment if something happens,
I don't We've already made jokes with each other. So I don't feel weird about saying, hey, I'm having a little issue here or I just seen a moment and like I'll be back to it or whatever.
How I get out of my head, like famously for myself is just to take a break.
Yeah.
Absolutely, And sometimes like if you get good at it, you can take a break and the other person doesn't even know you're taking a break. Oh well, say you're doing something and you start getting in your head. There's other things you can do that don't always involve penetration.
Yeah, yea, I know.
But the whole time that you're doing the other thing, you're thinking, like you're like, okay, I'm gonna switch my mouth.
But like now I'm like okay, like oh see, see for me, I I treat it as a break, like I'm not I'm not like taking a break. I'm like, I'm taking a break too, Like I'm taking a break from that right now. And so for me because especially going to what you guys a talking about with connection, For me, if I'm in my head, I try and go back to the connection, so I go for more kissing.
So then they're like, let's go and just kiss because like it's the same thing with time when you like you're hooking up at the bottom and they're like, uh like that sometimes they need more time before they can do that, you know. So it's like kind of the same thing happens if you were getting in your head you're like, oh, it's about to be over or whatever you're spiraling about, It's like, okay, then just go back to that initial the start of it.
Yeah. I like that. It's like knowing what your turn ons are like besides putting the dick in the hole, like if making out or having your nipples sucked or eating ass, like if those like if you put a dick in my mouth, like I will be rock hard. If you put your ass in my face, I'll be rock hard. So if I'm having issues while penetration, if I can just go back to those things, go.
Back to the thing that stimulates.
Yeah, then like then I'm ready and you give yourself permission to like not have to be whatever.
Interesting.
I remember a few years ago meeting a guy. We had a great connection on Fireland.
We hooked up on fire.
Island and they're like, oh, let's continue, Like I want to see you in the city. Oh no, Well we met up. We met up, and we had like a little day date. Then we came back here and we were hooking up and both of us were like not getting hard. But then we both were like, I don't know what's going on right now, but we just let's take a break. And he was like, yeah, me too. I was like, okay, great, you know, like totally fine.
And I don't know if we I don't know if we finished hooking up in that moment, But then we met up for another day and it was on like Donkey Kong. So I'm saying like, there's like sometimes it's just time both parties are in their heads sometimes like over communicating.
It doesn't it doesn't mean it necessarily kills the mood, you know.
Being safe enough to both of you say oh I'm not something's off. I think maybe unintentionally made you closer. Yeah, and the next time it was like, oh, I feel safe with this person.
It's also to be as gracious as possible in those scenar areas because like we've all been through it. So like sometimes when it's like things aren't working out and you're like, oh, I'm sorry, and they're like, it's totally fine. I think you need to believe them and just trust, you know, like, hey, well and also okay, like we're good, don't worry well.
And also even if they aren't telling you the truth for whatever reason, ever nice they don't want to engage in that moment, and that's also fine.
It's like it's always better to be like, you know what another time.
But there have been times where that's happened, something similar like that has happened, and we just didn't. We just took a pause in that moment and then started back up later in the evening, you know, have a cocktail, watch something, you know, and give it a little bit more time to cook.
But I'm I'm a firm believer in breaks. I think break Yeah, I love that.
I love that. So both of you started out as tops and then became verse or were you early in.
Your When I was younger, I was I didn't even I was so scared to top.
So I was just like sure. My first yeah, my first two like penetrative partners, I was the bottom. But like in my second boyfriend in college, he was like, I want you to fuck me, and then I did and I was like, oh wait, I'm this is sligh, Like I'm down for this. So then it then like my next relationship, I was mostly the top.
And mine's not not that far off from yours.
When I lost my virginity, I was bottoming, and then that was you know, when I was a baby, I was a baby, I was in high school, and then when I started having boyfriends, I've been a top and all my boyfriends, you know, but then like you know, sometimes I'll be like a little verse moment here and there, but for the most part, that's the way it has panned out.
Yeah, and I think where I currently stand, like my ideal partner would be as verse as I am, or maybe leans a little bit more bottom.
And when you were saying like I'm the verse top versus verse, what and this I'm asking this, but there's actually no I'm curious, like what makes a person decide to say versus top versus just saying verse or versus bottom.
Okay, So actually.
I was dating someone and when we first met and first hooked up, he.
Was the top.
And then the time that we spent together, like back to back consecutively, his stomach was messed up. So he was like, I can't bottom and or I can't bottom. So I was like, Okay. Then some time went around and he was like, so I think he was getting in his head of like is this bitch a bottom? And like I'm I'm not know if I'm signing up what I'm signing up for. And so he asked me straight up, he was like, are you are you verse?
Are you a bottom or like whatever? And I was like, I would consider myself a verse top because I would say I top in my years of experience, probably a to a seventy thirty percentage, if that makes sense, So like seventy percent of the time I'm topping, thirty percent I'm bottoming. But so I would say that my preference lies in that, and like a I like a partner to have like a submissive side. I like a partner
to let me have control. I like that more than I like I don't want to say giving control, but just I think the you like being more dombed than I like being more dominant, But I also like to be submissive. But it's just I think I lean into being more dominant in the bedroom more than I do submissive.
Gotcha.
I think it's about just clarity.
I think like saying verse top to me or verse bottom or verse is very helpful when people are honest with what they're saying, because then you're like, Okay, this is somebody who is open to bottoming, but it has more experience or more enjoyment topping. So then if I am choosing to engage with them with insects, then I can decide if that's somebody that I feel compatible with.
Like I think it would be more compatible.
I think I would be compatible with a verse bottom because I'm I'm thinking they're going to be bottoming way more in our relationship or our journey together. But I can depend on them to like flip it up and like turn me out.
But this only works if everybody's honest about what they're saying.
Very true, because they'd be lying. People be lying.
And I think also what we're kind of like lightly touching on here is like there is a stigma where a lot of people don't want like to admit when they're bottom because there's bottom shaming and whatnot. So I think that, like it's also important to not a don't do that because that's silly. But then just there are verse top like I would call you and I both verse tops. So it's like that does exist as long as it's like it exists, but not in opposition to.
Or not not ashamed of it. Just is Yeah, yeah, I think that I will say whenever I see someone that's just like I'm a bottom, I find that so hot. And when they're just a top, there are times when I find that hot. But go ahead.
So I when someone says to me that they're a total top, it is such a turnoff to me.
It is such a turnoff to me. Depends it's the over six three.
If there are a total top, I get worried that they're not going to actually fuck.
Well, agree, because.
How do you know? How do you know how to fuck if you've never been fucked?
Come on, talk about it to me.
To me, a total top kind of reminds me of like you know, the kindsy scale, how they say, if you're like really all the way hetero, like, something might be a little off.
Well, that's my fear is that there's some un there's some process things going on there that you.
Don't something's off.
But I guess there's an exception of someone like there's a top. Maybe there's been a top that says like I'm a top, but I have tried and it's just not for me.
And that's also tea. We had a doctor Evin Goldstein on and we talked about buttholes, and there are certain buttholes that really cannot take anything like it's like it really is painful.
Oh my god, doctor Goldstein. Yes, doctor, he has fixed many holes in this city.
Ready holes maybe in your city in la. But do you think the tight hole is like a they just need to be loosened up? Like have you like have you noticed it like oh, if you might just need me to eat this longer, or we might need to do more fingers.
Correct, there needs to there needs to be a little bit more of a like pre that is fair. I can be a little impatient and I just want to go for it, so that that isn't fair, And I'll take that feedback.
Well, and I will say, I will say the few times that I bottomed in my days that it has gone a lot better when I was I had been allowed to take my time. Yes, yes, absolutely, just like just like when the person who was topping was more patient and like and like because because then like like you say, it's like once things do loosen and do what they're supposed to do, then you can you can go in.
Maybe there's you know, there is no pain. There is no pain like a penis entering an asshole that it's not quite ready.
You know what.
It goes in too quick and it's sharp, and you like are like, get.
The funk out of me, Like.
I need a moment.
It takes a moment. You're like, I need a minute. Sometimes you need to walk around the room. I need to walk out of it.
I got to get up. I gotta take that's a break. We need to take a break. Real Absolutely absolutely Okay, So this person, I would say to them, the emotional and the the emotional is communication. Find the right partners to connect with being able to say to somebody, hey, I want to try this out. It's easier maybe in a long term relationship, but like you can find a partner that you're like, hey, I would like to try
being a top. I think also allowing yourself to you know, letting yourself off the hook of having to be at a ten with it, Like you don't need to be the world's greatest top when you start. You're gonna have to learn how to get there, and you know, you know, counter blessings. And then I think also just in terms of lasting longer. I don't know if you have any lasting longer tips, but for me, it's like stroking yourself. Edging yourself is a really great way to build your.
I mean in practice, in practice, in practice, in practice, keegeles keeg goles uh, connecting to the breath.
Yes, yes, Also jerking off before you have sex, I think is helpful.
But that can always help, But that can be a double edged sword because then you might not be able to finish when you.
Sure, because if you jack off too close to the date, you might have a problem of getting it up and you might have a problem coming.
Fair which I don't mind having the problem coming because like you'll have a good time with double come. But yes, get a dick pill babe if you want, If you need.
To that's also an option pel keep it up, don't.
I don't necessarily love a cockering, but if you need that too, you could go there too.
Yeah. Yeah does that?
Does that? Do cock creams prevent you?
Well?
It keeps you hard, it helps you say hard.
Yeah, and I may possibly it might depending on the person, Like maybe it stops you from.
That is something I feel like like I've I've definitely experimented with those, but I do think that there are certain people that are.
Like really into them, and I'm like, wow, you are really into this.
I was into it for a minute. It's kind of hot. When I see it. I'm like, oh, you want to fuck. Whenever I see a cocker, Oh you're trying to fuck? Got it?
Some crocker. You're better than others.
That's true, true, true.
I'm just always like, y'all gonna break y'alls, dick, y'all get you get the blood is in there for far too long, more than God intended it.
Yeah. I can do a cockering for a moment, and then I when I'm like once we're like going, I'm like this has to come off so we can, like I want to Yeah, all right, Well let me ask you the final two questions if we ask everyone here. Okay, So the first question is have you ever had sex in a porta potti?
Yes?
No, multiple times, Wow, at a circuit party.
Listen, you needed you needed privacy.
Was it early in the night, was it late in the night.
It was probably during the day. There's been many times.
Yeah, I've actually had a four way in a handicap porter body. So for yall, in that handicap it was a large port body.
And do you know what and do you know what I envisioned as you say that, a line of people in wheelchairs.
Use it the accessibility come on.
And the porter party is just shaking and they're just like like there were other ones.
I'm just saying it was the it was the it was the double wide.
A little a little porta potty orgy or I guess a foursome. Okay. And the last question is what could you learn to love about yourself?
That was that was a shift in gears.
Yeah, maybe I could learn to love my need for assurance and reassurance more.
That it makes you feel safe, that you like to be reaffirmed.
Yeah, instead of seeing it as a weakness.
That's beautiful. I love that I think sometimes people feel like we have to do this thing on our own, and life is hard. You need you need your people, and sometimes you need to be reaffirmed. But yeah, especially as a queer person in this world, I would it would make sense that you need that reaffirmation or that reassurance and that is definitely and if you can find it, I think that is the strength, right, Like, that's the strength that you have people who can offer that.
God, Bless my God.
I mean I would say like I could learn to love my need to be seen. And I feel like so much of what I do and how I move through the world as I am constantly going from different people I've met, right going to this group and going to this group and helping this person and listening to this person.
But if I really examine what.
That's about, it is about really feeling the need to be seen by people I care about or potential friends or creative collaborators.
And it's something that really exhausts me. I fill my days with so many interactions, so I feel oddly burdened by the thing that I am seeking as well.
Oh so finding the balance of it and understanding what it actually is so that you can get it in a way that isn't burdensome, right, like so that you're not over overextending to attain that perception. And when you say seen, you mean like as who you are, like internally seen or you talking about like I need to see people no internally see.
Yeah, because I feel like I show up right, like I show up here, I show up the boyfriend, I show up with other friends, like like I show up and you're like, so what, but why do you show up right?
Why?
Like why when you're tired do you get on the four or five to see your friend that lives another part?
And for clearity, you want someone to affirm and yes, okay noted, Yes, yeah I wanted Andrew, thank you for sharing.
I would say that is the the crux of the matter.
Love, Like I see you showing up for X because I know that you care mm hmm.
Or or I see your contribution to this like like the understood.
And you could you want to you could want to learn how to love needing that affirmation or needing to be seen.
I need to learn how to love needing to be seen, Yeah, because because I don't love that, I feel that I need.
That right now.
But it's you wanting to be within your community and wanting to build your community, and of course you need that. Of course you need that. Thank you well so much for being here.
This was thank you. It was awesome, It was incredible, incredible.
I really appreciate your open heart to vulnerability, the laughs, the key key and I hope to talk to see you see when I'm in New York.
Yeah, absolutely, let us know absolutely all right by y'all.
Bye, wow wow.
Well you know we are a hose here, but hose with heart. So before we part ways, let me speak to yours baby. That was a key. Key, That was a key we don't often have. I don't often have two guests. I know what's happened a couple of times, but I don't often get to have two guests at the same time. And whenever there are three of us in the studio on the mic, it is such a time. And I really really am so grateful to Answer and Cody for joining me and for for sharing of themselves.
I'm gonna do a couple of dates. Okay, So can we can can we can candle oil turn into lube or we use as lube? The official answer is. While some candle oils that transform into massage oil can be
used for massage, they're not generally recommended as lubricants. There's a lot of reasons why, which you can look up, but the short answer is don't use the massage oil as loub So I guess Cody would not be getting into the candle oil, but I highly recommend if you like temp play, find you the candles that are specifically for massage, and it's a really fun time and a great way to spice up the night. Can you put
all of it on your face? Yes, the answer is you can generally put all of it on your face, but they do say it's important to use it cautiously, which Andrew was saying you to do. You don't use too much because you know, if you're prone to acne, can be perhaps uh clog your pores and be a little a little too much. Yeah, And buying sex toys is actually completely legal. There aren't. It depends on the country, but there aren't really age restrictions, but there are some
in certain areas. There's no federal law that regulates the sales sex toys, but there are some states Alabama, Mississippi, and Texas, surprise, you can't buy them until you're twenty one. Not surprising, devastating, but you know. And then the other
states the age requirement is eighteen. It's technically there isn't an age like a teenager could buy a sex toy, but usually the sex toys are let's say, in a sex store where you might have to be eighteen or older to enter, So that's where your age limit comes in.
There are you know? I think we are going to talk to somebody, you know a little while, hopefully this season about sex education with teenagers and how do you talk to them about sex toys because I find that fascinating, but just wanted to give you an update on that now. I also had a a I'm foosballing myself and you
tell me and let me know. But I was wondering if referring to a dick as the quote unquote real thing feels offensive or dismissive to those who may exclusively use toys, and if so, I apologize because I don't mean it as like something that's better or worse. I know that sometimes it can feel like that, and for sure, you know it's spoken about as that people prefer this over that. I guess you could talk about toys as being better than the dick, to which you know, tea.
There are many instances where that is also tea. But you know, I don't. I'm just thinking about semantics and so saying a toy versus the quote unquote real thing. I guess we'll say a toy versus you know, the dick. But if just let me know if that language feels offensive or dismissive. I'm mostly curious. All right, now let's get into what I learned. I really love this idea of giving yourself permission if you're having anxiety when you're topping,
to stop. Caramo had said this to us too, where he likes to in the middle of sex or you know, when there's a natural moment to like stop and get out of bed and have a conversation. Do you like that? What do you want more?
Of?
Which I love? And I think all of this is about promoting emotional connection, and so for you know, if there's any top anxiety, I think considering how you you, I'm trying to find a different words to promote, but how you bring out the emotional connection will be so beneficial. I will say, for penis owners. You know, dicks are really so to us or marketed as always needing to be ready, just kind of bang bang bang and not
having any emotions behind it. And so when somebody can't get hard, it then becomes a reflection of their not true, but it can be taken as a reflection of their manhood. I'm not man enough, or I'm not there's a weakness here because my dick isn't getting hard on que Men, you have emotions too, your emotional beings too, and so if your dick isn't working, it's not a reflection of
your manhood, it's not a reflection of your worth. It is just really likely that you need some emotional connection and that there's something in your heart and your nervous system that's going on and that needs to be addressed. And the easiest way to address that is to say it. In fact, I will say the times on which topic has gotten worse is when I didn't just say to my partner, hey, I'm feeling X, Y and Z, or like, oh,
i don't know why my dick's not working. But if we just do, if you stuck on my nipples, it'll you know what I'm saying like it's like I gotta get the When you start like, you know, beating yourself on the head, it's got a hard I'm not hard. Why I'm not hard? It just gets the spiral just makes it worse. And there's you're not gonna come from that, okay, nothing, nothing good will come from that, Okay. So consider that you might need more emotional communication. And as Cody said,
over communicating doesn't necessarily ruin the mood. It doesn't ruin the mood. And if your over communication with somebody ruins the mood quote unquote, that may not be a partner for you, whether it's a hookup, a one time thing, or a long term thing. But if me communicating makes you soft and by that you know, not not soft in the way we like, but your dick is soft and you can't get hard, then we're probably not a match. I want somebody who can connect to how they're feeling.
Doesn't mean we gotta get married, doesn't mean we gotta date, doesn't mean you know, we're now locked into this. It just means that, like in this moment, while we are exchanging energies in our bodies or are our naked bodies are being vulnerable. Together, we can feel safe knowing that we can communicate. I really also love this Cody questioning need why he needs to say verse top and you know this this conversation about verse top verse bottoms and
are you really and do verse tops actually exist? And the short answers, yes, verse tops do exist. We were talking both to Cody and Andrew who identify as verse tops. But I do think that Andrew stepping out, You know, verse tops exist as long as it's not in opposition to bottoms, right, because then we start getting into the granular of bottom shaming and people feeling afraid to claim bottom. I think it is so sexy when someone claims they're bottom hood. But I also recognize, at least for me
and my generation growing up. You know, it's like you can be gay as long as you're not the bottom, as long as you're not the one taking the dick. What does that, Janet Jackson mean? Oh so you don't want to do in a bending you know what I'm saying, Like, there is a way that we culturally do not respect a male body having anything up its whole. And here's the deal, whether you are gay or straight or whatever, you are that booty hall that got the processed out there.
It feels good to put stuff up there. Now, listen, don't be putting everything up there. Put the things that are regulated to be up there. But I feel like, you know I'm saying, don't end up in the er, you know what I'm saying. But it feels good, and I wish that we could just accept that anal sex, especially on a male body, feels exceptional and like I said, a couple weeks so it's not gay at pleasure and
so there's nothing to be ashamed of. It is part of sex and it is a It is a tool in your whole box that you should have the right to explore and play with. I do agree with this, you know, for the total tops, and there are many
reasons for one to be a total top. One is, you know, if your booty hole legit can't take anything, which we talked to doctor Evan Goldstein about that on the episode about anal botox with Michel Juharry, that some people really just can't take anything in there about and it takes a lot more, and so that might be a reason to be a total top. But if your total topness is out of shame. Then it's something to
be curious about. I do again this sentiment, how do you know how to fuck if you've never been fucked? I have said to y'all, and I've said on Instagram, I said, I think that every person who penetrates, like if you are somebody who puts a dick in a hole, you penetrate somebody. At some point you put a toll toy and somebody's hole. You should have something in your hole at least once. I say once, I would say once a month, but I'm gonna say once every six
months at base once a year. But you should at least once in your life have something in that hole so you know what it feels like that you can be a more empathetic piper downer, you know what I'm saying, So you know how to tole work it a little bit. I really think straight guys, this is also for you to put something in your hole so you understand that, like, you gotta warm that thing up. It needs loub. You can't just shove it in. It wants to be played
with first. It wants to be talked too nicely first before you just put it in. Right. That the main event is not just putting a dick in. That's what we say in our home manifesto. It's not about penetration. Sex is not about penetration. I used to say sex is not just about penetration, but I want to say, period, it's not about penetration. Sex is so much more expansive
than that. And so if all you're doing is racing to get the dick in a hole and you don't even know that you're supposed to eat it first I add some lube on it. Then I'm really suggest that you you for your own learning and expansive and expansiveness, Uh, have a partner or you know, go to the sex store, get you your own toy and explore. Get you a little mirror, look at your whole, you know, put put a little dial do in, a little little training butt pluck in there. It's gonna it's gonna make you a
It's gonna make you better at fucking. I promise you that. As Andrew said, bottoming goes better when the top goes slow and takes time, because, as Cody said, there's no pain like a dick that goes into fast. My god, it is sharp. It is sharp as Andrew said, sometimes I need to walk around the room. It's true. It's true. When it goes into fast ah the pulse. Anyone who knows, I know you felt it because we've all experienced. You're like, nah nah nah, chilled, chill, where's the loube babe? Let
me uh no pain like it? So rule of thumb for a top go slow. You can get to the jat camera if you want. You can get to those deep, deep deep strokes. Absolutely, but you do have to ease in, Okay. Absolutely. Anyways, this was so much fun. I love talking to Andrew and Cody. I'm so grateful that they were here with us, and I'm so grateful you're here with me. Oh. Also, if you want more mess please join me on my subsack Brandoncogubman dot subseack dot com. Every Monday I do
messy Mondays at night. This next week we're doing a Kei key with Hunter Harris Pop Culture Queen at nine pm Eastern six pm Pacific. All you have to do to subscribe. It's free and you have access to all the live streams and the replays if you're not able to make it live, and then if you pay, which is five dollars a month. You become a paid subscriber, you get access to more goodies which include essays and
and the group chats. Plus of course my mini substack pod called Hey everybody, and I'm going to play a little clip for you right now because I went to see Cowboy Charts Are and it was phenomenal and I had a great time, and I want to review it for you. But more importantly, the title is that Beyonce is a living after deity and a mother of sexual liberation, and I mean that from my gut. It it was
I know that, and I know that intrinsically. But after going to now Renaissance and then back to back Cowboy Carter it being in the same location and a lot of the same dancers and whatnot, I was like, Oh, this is this is the way that we are screaming right now, the way that she has us in this chokehold. There's something that she is tapping into and I really believe it is our sexual liberation and her emulating that. Anyways, listen to the clip. Listen to the clip. Listen to
the clip. How sexually liber rated she is and how how we as a global audience are attracted to that even though especially in America, we don't know how to
talk about sex. It's and I was talking about this in the post that I did on Monday right like that we are a culture that is sexually repressed but also obsessed with sex, and that juxtaposition creates confusion, I think in many of us individually in our day to day because we are exposed to so much sexuality, and yet we're also told that who we are as sexual beings needs to be you know, put in a box or isn't correct, or it is weird or complicated or
sin and that's confusing. But what you get from going to what I got from going to Renaissance for sure, and didn't even expect it at Cowboy Carter, but even more so was the freedom to stand in one's sexiness and sexuality. And you know, I think that for Beyonce, there was a really clear shift in that with the Beyonce album. I think that she's been hyper sexualized since that very first album. I was telling about Disney's Child like they were all like, you know, this is what
our culture does. We take you know, young women and we hyper sexualize them, and that is often used to sell CDs and well no longer CDs, but sell music, sell products, sell whatever. And I really obviously as a pop star, you know, our female pop stars are experiencing that on such a high scale. And I think after she had Blue and this Beyonce album came out, there was such a clear taking back of that narrative where she's like, I'm going to own I mean, like a partition,
right y'all. Remember y'all remember that fucking video and that song Okay Rocket, you know, I mean like these songs that were just like, oh, she fucks, Oh she fucks, and she's not afraid to talk about it. Oh oh you know, Like, yes, honey, it's for if you are if you are a stan of Beyonce, you're gonna love this episode. If you are curious or you're not gonna be able to make it to the show, you're gonna love it. If you've already seen it or about to
see it, you will. It's you know, I love to nerd out like this, and I don't often get the chance to to nerd to to incorporate my love of talking about sex and relationships and sexuality with my love of music and fashion and pop culture. So to be able to talk about the intersection only of those things is really exciting to me. So, Brandonkogodman dot subsac dot come, I think it's everything. I love you. You can find
me on Instagram as well at Brandon Kyle Goodman. You can find our podcasts at tell Me Something Messy, and you can join our community on the Messy Monday's substack. When you subscribe, you'll get weekly posts, recommendations on sex and self and so much more. Also, I want to hear from you, so send your topic ideas, your messy stories, your submissions, uh, your game ideas to tell Me Something Messy at gmail dot com. You can also call us at six six nine sixty nine Messy. That is six
six nine six nine six three seven seven nine. Rate review and share this podcast with all your hoe and aspiring HOE friends. Really really helps the show out, all right. Until next time, ask about the politics of that dick before you make it spit, make sure they eat the kitty before they beat the kitty before or fucation or sucation communication. And in case you haven't heard it yet, today you are so deeply loved. I love you, bye, Thank you so much, for listening to Tell Me Something Messy.
If you all enjoyed the show, send me episode to someone else who might like it. Tell Me Something Messy was executive produced by Ali Perry, Gabrielle Collins, and Yours Truly. Our producer and editor is Vince Dejohnny. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio and The Outspoken Network, visit the iHeartRadio app or anywhere you subscribe to your favorite shows.