Welcome to teen Girl Talk, Teen Girl Talk. I'm ce Zy Coota, I'm friend Coda, and we are so excited to have author aj Whitney with us to talk about the second book in the Sovereign series, Elysium. I hope that I am pronouncing that correctly because I've only read it. Welcome Aja, Thanks for having me. Absolutely so we want to get right into it. Can you tell us a little bit I guess, like an elevator pitch about Sovereign
that leads us to Elysium. And for anyone who missed our interview, was that last year or the.
Year before that was almost exactly a year ago?
Oh wow? Okay, so you can go back in our feed and we talked about Sovereign, but please just give us the high level upolutely.
So Sovereign follows thirteen year old orphan number three hundred and thirty two, who was raised to be sacrificed. But when her village stops believing in their mysterious gods, does she finally have a real life or will the Sovereign take their revenge? And a little bit of a spoiler, they do in fact take their revenge.
Yes, so you know it's I loved that one of the things with series because I love a good series, and in particular, I was happy that you did not like retread a lot in this one, like because I feel like sometimes they're like, let us go over these big chunks from the previous books, and I felt like you really trusted the reader. You're like, I I gets.
So boring in a series, Like I remember when the Aragon books were coming out and I was like, oh my god, just stop telling me what already happened in the last year. I just read it.
Yes, because the other part is like who picks up at the third book and is like, this is a good place to start. I'll just start here.
That would be silly. I think you only do that by mistake.
Probably, Yeah, And like there's a reason there's always a hold in the library on the first book that's like eighteen weeks long, and then you can definitely do the second book, but right, And I did.
Try to like to kind of build that in a little bit to where you know the characters in those first couple of chapters they do kind of rehash some of the things that you know, the events that led up to where they are now. But I tried to build it in in such a way that maybe you didn't notice it was happening, or it wouldn't be that like eye rolling side moment where you just can't stand her read it anymore.
No, I think you did a great job because, like again, and I don't know why, especially this winter, I've been doing a lot of series, and I feel like, especially when you're reading in succession, it is under like it. It's so much clearer when that's happening. So I had actually forgotten that the characters didn't have names for so long, because when you pick up in Elysium, they are fully
formed people, and I know you know they're backstories. So can without spoilers, can you give us a little bit of like where we start in Elysium.
Yeah, So in Elysium, we have a character who wakes up in an unknown place with technology she's not familiar with. She doesn't know what in the world is going on or how she got there, and she finds that the explanation for all of this is that she's now in an underground city where the scientists built this civilization hundreds of years ago to escape a massive nuclear war that
destroyed the planet. But Unfortunately, we do still have this dual storyline, the same as we did in Sovereign, and unfortunately we find that the experience of the people left on the surface doesn't quite match up with the story that our main characters are being told below ground.
I really felt that in this in Elysium, because I feel like in Sovereign it's so claustrophobic and like the communication is so closed, and Elysium everyone's getting a lot more information, but it's like, can we trust this information? Who is this information coming from? And I feel like both experiences, uh feel relatable to me, Like especially now where I feel like I have to be so careful about where I get information and fact check and et cetera.
And then being a fish out of water situation, it's like, well, who can they fact check with? Like they're being told we are the experts, We're telling you what's best for you, and like, what are you gonna do?
But and they're the adults too, the adults telling these kids this massive history. Yeah, and is it real or is it not real? And it's kind of for the reader to decide. Yeah, right up until the end where we start to get a little more information that hasn't been filtered mm hm.
And even the sort of the comparison of like old world values versus modern values, and how there's like a benefit to both and also distractions to both. How was it building out this larger world versus like the smaller community in Sovereign.
It was. It was pretty fun for me because I kind of just got to run with it and I had to decide.
So.
I mean, in Sovereign, the main story, it feels very like pioneer times, right, there's really no modern technology and it is very insular, like you've mentioned. And then when I wrote Elysium. First of all, when I wrote Sovereign, I had no idea where I was taking this story next. I had to come up with all the ideas and figure out what I actually want to do because I wasn't sure if it would get picked up as a
series originally. But it was really fun. I got to decide, you know, how advanced I want this technology to be. Do I want it to be realistic like things that you know we actually have here in the twenty first century, or do I want it to be more advanced than that? And things that I just come up with. I did
tons of research. I felt like the FBI agent who is assigned to watch my Google history probably is getting concerned because I'm having to google things about you know, like C four and you know, different ways to to use explosives. Oh you know there's a scene where she has to remove the screws from something from the backside, and I, okay, like how do we how does that happen? Like I have to make them brittle and I.
So, yeah, I thought that was really like I would never think to do that. So like the making them see the forest basically like snaps the screws, very ingenuitive.
And I got to as I wrote Elysium and then the third book is written and with the publisher already. But as both of those books, you know this this new society has, you know, they have like, you know, their own military, and so I'm like researching military ranks, so like huge documents that are like how to write a military report and you know, like trying to trying to keep track of all the ranks and the way platoons work and the weird knowledge that is now in my head.
Yeah, I mean even the like I cannot keep military rank straight. So I was like, is a kernel more than a lieutenant, So I.
Know, I like I honestly had to like keep going back and looking again to see like which one is which, and then like I'd give somebody a promotion, but I'd forget that they got the promotion and I had to figure it out all over again.
And yeah, it's I mean, it's a lot to keep. And then in Elysium, when we like pop back into the above ground, uh yeah, the sort of the spiraling was so I guess escalation sort of the opposite of spiraling, but it felt like everything was like.
Kind of both.
Yeah, I I was stressed, I was worried. I was I was worried for Maggie. I I was worried, and you know, but the two worlds are not so different, right, Like they're dictated by these sort of like unbendable rules and like this sort of top down decisions and so again, not to give anything away, but I'm curious about the third book, like it do things get even bigger, because like I feel like this the villages of microcosm of what's happened in Elysium. And then yeah.
So there's definitely I mean there's this both societies have this very authoritarian kind of rule to them, right where I make the rules. I tell you what to do, I tell you what to think, what to believe, and how to react, and you are going to do it because I say so.
Yeah, and ask getting questions, yeah.
I mean questions are like they and they tell her you can ask all the questions you want, but they answer them in such a way that doesn't invite more, you know, and they make her think she's totally satisfied with all these answers, but she doesn't have the whole story, right, And and so in the first book you really have, you know, the above ground village, and then of course the gray Haired Woman's story that is I almost said
what the gray Haired Woman's story is? That will ruin it for anybody who.
Hasn't read it.
Two villages, you know, and you're figuring out how those are connected. And then in Elysium you find you know, the underground world in the surface world, and they don't really meet up much in this story, right. And then in the third book is where those worlds start to collide and we try to bring everything together. And I really try in that third book to bring things full circle. And I know, once you finished Sovereign, you had a ton of questions and Elysium mind answered some of them.
I mean, honestly, the questions just change because I'm like, right, okay, but wait, this is not the information I thought that I knew. Yes, and like even like seeing sort of like the collective action and the sort of quiet descent of the above ground world in this book was amazing because I read a lot of nonfiction and I find that there are through through threads of how like change is done through collective action, and like I was so it felt like it was mostly the women in the above ground.
Village, but like it might be a feminist.
The fact that they like mobilized so quickly and they were so unwilling to just cave. I have to say, like I really I was rooting for them so much. I mean I would be a monster, not too right, but like they were. It was very It was so inspiring. Like was there a real life equivalent or like a person you know that you had in mind when you were modeling those characters.
I don't think so. Man, that's such a good question. I feel like it really just came from this very like I don't want to sit down and shut up and just do what you tell me side of myself. And in some ways it became a little bit of a I oh no, sometimes I get this brain pug and I can't think of words, which is a curse for a writer, right, Yeah, it's it sort of mirrors my personal journey of you know, exploring spirituality and religion.
And I was raised at a very strict religious upbringing and very authoritarian religious upbringing, and I've kind of gone on this journey of deconstruction as an adult and figuring out what I really believe and what I only believed because somebody told me to believe it. And I feel like the whole series in a lot of ways sort
of parallels that journey. Yeah, And so it's very much just sort of this journey of me coming from women need to sit down and shut up to I have more power and more agency than I ever thought, and I'm gonna find a positive way to use it.
Yeah, I mean, disenfranchisement is you know, like the number one authoritarian.
Tool, right, so, like exactly, Yes, even.
The fact that the wives were like, you know, quietly undermining their husbands and like finding ways to send signals like and you know.
When your wife of fifty years goes, oh my gosh, he's evil. Now, yeah, something's gotta give.
Right, And you know, I'm trying not to say so hard. Yeah, like I wanted to talk about something that happens like halfway through the book, so I'm like, not gonna do that. I will say too, I think with Elysium, you know that obviously Elisium nights a thing like.
Consider the Alysians.
Consider themselves more modern. But even when I'm not sure if it's a he was considered a nurse's aid. But like says, oh, I started doing this job at like fourteen or something, and of like, oh, he's an elysiums there there is this thing of like, well, everyone has a purpose and everyone's gonna work and.
Everyone serves the mission, right yeah, and you know that if you you don't test well or uh, you make a mistake, that's kind of it and you're immediately demoted and the stakes are so high.
So but I I guess, like I have to say, I was surprised when you said that you didn't have this planned out, because I really it felt like you did. I was like, oh, it reminded me of when I first watched Yellow Jackets and they said like, oh, yeah, we have all the seasons planned out, and I was like, that makes sense because you're like planting these things, you know. Uh huh. So how like were there other ways you thought you might take it before you sort of settled here?
There were, and there are some things that I did. Like, So this book takes place over about the course of a year, and I really had thought, Okay, in the first book, our main character is thirteen, she turns fourteen in the second book. We just sort of quietly mentioned that, like it's not a big deal, but now she's fourteen. Yeah, but I had kind of thought, like some of her character development, I originally thought she should be older for
some of these things. And of course I'm sure you're thinking like the person she turns into with the career path they set her on, Yeah, seems like a lot for a fourteen year old. Yeah, am I right? But it is a young adult novel, so yeah. So originally, like I had tried to do this time jump that I like covered in a series of like letters and
journal entries, and I like it. It was great in the sense that it gave you, like some of the some of the deeper Elysian culture, so like some of the holidays that they celebrate in ways that they're different from above ground culture. But it was I didn't like it at all. Okay, and so I, you know, just brilliantly and just deleted all those chapters. I could have saved them as hidden war or something that would.
Have been right.
I didn't do that.
It's gonna be like right.
There's also so Rome character introduced in this book. I went back and forth for weeks, maybe even months, about where I wanted to go with his character. Was he gonna be a good guy? Was he going to be a bad guy? Was he going to be a double agent or a triple agent or what's like? Who is
this person? And my poor husband had to listen and you talk about it like NonStop, trying to figure it out because I have to process verbally right, And I eventually, I eventually landed on what I wanted to do, but it took me forever, and I had written this whole outline of how I wanted Once I figured out where I wanted the story to go, right, I'd written the whole outline, and then I changed it for Rome's part
of the story. Yeah, and then there'll be more surprises about his character in the next book, so be read out of that.
I mean, yeah, because right now.
You still don't really know if yeah, a good guy or a bad guy. But I do, like and I had to know before I finished this book.
Yeah, So I had settled in one way of thinking, and then by the end of the book, I was like, well, now I'm not sure if that's.
True, and so like, and I like that the core set of characters, like they continuing through this journey, like all have their own paths but are still supporting one another so much like I friends groups, especially represented in books like this, like during times of strife, I think are so great because I think that that gets like the romance and sort of the anticipation around the romance I love, but also just you know, the.
Checking in with the friend groups. We have some new friends of all and a.
Teen drama which is necessary, right, Like their lives feel normal and settled for a good portion of this book, and well, yeah, if that's going to be a thing, you're gonna have some drama.
Right Oh yeah, Like if you have the time an energy to have drama, especially around that age it's it's you.
Can't be like safe and in school and have access to a swimming pool and never have any drama come on.
All the technology, but.
The teen drama chapters like this feels safe, this feels good.
In Nobody's after anybody right now, and then you switch to the village right where everything goes terribly wrong because now they think the religion they abandoned is real after all.
So yeah, and and seeing like what they're being told in Elysium versus the reality is chilling.
Right, But the question is is it really reality?
Oh gosh, yeah, your head.
Sorry, yeah, because like the chapters from Maggie's point of view, like the whole time, I'm like.
So, I'm really curious what you thought about Maggie's character arc in this story, because she goes from this very powerful woman, you know, she's strong, and she's in charge, and she's like the big bad leader, you know, she's the boss lady, and she becomes convinced that everything she knew was wrong, that she is the cause of all this terrible suffering. And of course, I mean you can imagine in a society like that, like it was gonna go wrong, yes, but just the way that she handled
all of that. What were your thoughts on that?
I mean, I really felt for her because you know, I can't blame her for feeling a little bit cursed after everything went so sideways, because her saying orphans are children and they are people and we should treat them thus does not seem like a hot take, right, so you think so when she first conveyed that and convinced everyone else, I was like, yes, the pendulum is correcting itself.
And then in this book where everyone's like, look what you did, what a mess you made, I was like, that's not really fair.
And for anybody who's considering reading this book, yes it gets violent, so be ready for that. I did have some beta readers, just close friends who work with teenagers and and so it helps to have another set of eyes. And one of them read it early and she was like, these chapters are so hard to read. It it hurts my heart. What are they doing to the children?
Yes, and you know, even sort of like as a reader, when I became cognizant of the techniques that they the Council was using to kind of push their agenda forward, Like all of the behaviors felt sinister but that felt especially sinister because it was, you know, in the service of tearing families apart, and it was like wow, and while simultaneously trying to convince people this was in their best interests, like like convinced the citizens it was in
their best address, and it was like, oh my goodness.
They might have pushed too hard, too fast, you know.
Yes, I think like the one line I remember in particular is when they were talking about the food shortage and it was like, but the member council, the council members just keep getting better. And I was like, because I mean, that feels like sort of a throw back to sovereign where there's like so much suspicion around food and food insecurity, and I was like, yeah, you can't be that brazen. People are not going to lay down for it.
So and they shouldn't. They shouldn't have to.
Yes, yes, absolute, So Okay, I feel like we I like, I want to keep talking, but I also want people to read books and not be schoiled. So I feel like if we keep going, I'm gonna be like, Okay, we want to talk about this. Yeah, Frank, did you have any questions? Followed up et cetera.
No, not really. I'm just we don't like, I think you're the first author we've had back for their second book.
It's very exciting for us.
Yeah, so it just like like when I just want to bring in my opinion about the Maggie chapters, and like when I got like when you got to the whole thing of just like oh, like they had like they've done these terrible things and like we're starting to recognize these orphans as children. Reminds me of my favorite book, Cold Mountain, about a Civil War soldier trying to walk
home and he was fighting on the wrong side. At certain point, he stops with this group of traveling performers and he's there's you know, all different races there, and like one person says, like in his own foot, like a strange thing that one day the term slave will be strictly metaphorical. He's like, huh, he can't quite wrap his head around it. And that's that's what the village felt to me, except much more desperate.
Yeah, Like it's like.
You know, because it's like we they they were living under such terror for so long that you know, it's like we're on the knife sedge and when somebody's like, oh yeah, when you know, Maggie's like, oh, orphans are people? Like this was all true. It's like it's so easy just to tip over. And like watching that happen in real time was so rough because I think I said on the last episode, I can't get over like that, you know, orphan three, like three three.
Two, just like so many orphans.
Yeah, just.
You know, like sitting back and saying that happened to so many people and we just let it happen, and now that it's like we're going to start it all over again.
Yeah. I did appreciate the past orphan Laura though, like getting some of the like a look into their predecessors.
I guess, oh yes, the other Alysians that came, Yes, But I do.
I do also think that like you mentioned Harper's age for her current job, and that once again just adds to more tragedy of the of these you know, two civilizations we were in, like and it's difficult once again to talk about her job out spoiling the book, right.
You know, I would say it's an intense job for anyone of any age, never mind someone news you know four.
Right, right, And it's it's in my mind it was a very concentrated effort at brainwashing this person and garnering unquestioning loyalty from her to make her so important so quickly, and it's going to backfire spectacularly.
Yeah, because it's not like she's not talented. Like every character has, you know, commented on it. It has been illustrated, but it's like made the perfect.
Yeah, and it's like, if we can if we can build this loyalty and make her never ask any more questions, think of all the additional power we now hold because she is too dangerous to ask questions, right, Like, you want to wipe that out of her as quickly as possible. Yeah, it's gonna backfire.
And everyone who sort of interacted with her in the first I would say, like quarter of the book was like, well, aren't you just so curious? Don't you ask such good questions? And I was like, initially I was really taken by that. I was like, oh, curiosity is so important, it's so good. And I was like, you don't actually care about curiosity?
Well, just like towards the end, what I'm like, there was a part of me it's like, oh, she still has her humanity. That's going to change things.
I mean, yes and no.
There's like one point where I was like, whoa, You're like, who has this person become right toward the middle of the book.
And like someone kind of like checks her on it, and she's like, I'm doing what i gotta do.
Come on, And I was like, yeah, you gotta do what you gotta do. What you gotta do to survive. Man, Like it's you or me, and that's yeah, yeah, and that's her. Her journey across the three books is really kind of fun for me, just because in the first book, you know, she starts she doesn't even have a name, she has no identity. She was raised to never grow up. She doesn't know who she is or who she's supposed
to be. And in the second book, she starts she has this opportunity to actually have an identity, to be somebody, and she gets to decide who that is, but she
doesn't realize she's being manipulated into a very specific identity. Yeah, and then in the last book, we're gonna see her kind of come around from figuring out who she wants to be to knowing who she is, and you'll see a little bit of a there's gonna be a combination of sovereign Harper and Elysium Harper, Okay, that come together to make that fully formed human that she decides she actually wants to be.
Yeah, And I feel like even if you're preteen team not in total peril with a huge life change.
That is what being a teenager is is trying to figure out who who you actually are, who you want to be, and whether it's the person people are trying to make you be or not. You know, do I want to be this person you're telling me to be, or do I want something different for myself? Yeah, that's like the whole the whole teen experience, I feel.
Like, and trying on different personalities, like maybe not to that extreme, but like you know, like a.
Little bit yeah, I mean that's a teenager zoo, right, You try on a little bit of this, a little bit of that, and you're experimenting to see what works in it feels right who you really are inside. And we see a lot of that in Harber and her friends.
Absolutely, and even just the like wearing hair up or I don't know if the corsets were mentioned in the first book, but I was like that sounds truly dreadful, and I would also she.
She wears her first corset for the barn dance. Yes, okay, yes, and now she's like cool, I can breathe.
Yes, he had a T shirt. Yes, please, a huge sort of upswing versus like being so corseted. But right, well, thank you so much for joining us. Can you let everyone know where to find you, where to find the book? Yes?
So the best place to find all the information you could ever hope for about me is my website, aj Whitney books dot com. I have a great newsletter on there. I send out emails once a week on Wednesdays, exclusive lore, things you're not gonna see written down anywhere else. So I send out like hidden chapters. I send out well, let's see last month, I sent out like a lost audio transcript. And good luck figuring out where all of
these fit. By the way, before you before you get to read the entire series, because I really mix it up. The secret Lore coming out next week on Wednesday is the first two chapters of Elysium, so you get a little sneak peek. If you haven't read Sovereign, don't do it. Don't don't, don't read Sovereign. Don't read the first two chapters of Alysia. It'll mess you up. You won't understand. But I send out lots of fun things there, so that's always fun. And then I'm on You have two tiktoks.
The main one is AJ Underscore the Writer. I'm on Instagram, I'm on threads, Facebook, but all those links are on the website, which is hopefully easy to remember. Ajwhitney books dot com.
Okay, perfect, We will put it in the show notes. Thank you again so much for coming and speaking Elysium and more Sovereign with us.
Thank you for having me back.
Absolutely and we are looking forward to the third one. Like I said, I love a series, so uh until next week, I am Suzie Coda, my friend Team Code