Picturing Plattsburgh

I'm not drinking tea, but I am drinking some  water out of my mug that, written on the side, it tells me you're doing great,  so I'm drinking positivity. Love it. We could all use more positivity. How about you, John? Based on your recommendation quite a while ago, I am drinking Brodie’s  Scottish afternoon tea today. Oh, I'm so jealous. You know why I am  jealous, John, because I have a cup of it sitting on my desk because I accidentally  grabbed my bottle of water instead. Oops.

Whoops. So what are you drinking, Rebecca? I’m drinking this bottle of water that I  brought because I forgot my tea on my desk. We do have some teas here. So, I'll have to have some later. I have failed as a host. I'm sorry. It's your turn. So, we've invited you here to talk about the  Picturing Plattsburgh project that you conducted in your history course at SUNY Plattsburgh during  the spring 2024 semester. We saw you had posted

about this on LinkedIn, I believe it was. Can  you tell us a little bit about this project?

Sure, this was for the intro history class,  the U.S. history survey at Plattsburgh. It's 1877 to the present, and for people who teach  these history survey classes, there's a lot of challenges in trying to cover a huge amount of  just sort of content and material, helping to try to make it relevant to students, and also  just things like materials, like textbooks and preconceptions that students bring in about what  studying history means, most of them incorrect.

So those were all kinds of challenges that were in  my mind. I also was fortunate that semester it was going to be a small group, which was not usually  the case for surveys. So I started thinking about what could I do in the way of assessing student  learning while also encouraging relevance and meaning for the content? And I was interested,  and very interested in the unessay projects and

helping students demonstrate their learning and  skills in a variety of ways. So all those factors led me to think about what kind of final project  we could work on, what sort of research project. I came up with the Picturing Plattsburgh first  thinking about when I was writing the little blurb for the catalog, thinking about how in any  kind of textbook or any kind of lecture or any kind of material where students are looking up  information about the past, they always look at

the photographs first. Or really, everybody does  that, not just students. People do that. They're interesting. So they look at the photos first. And  I had also started thinking about, what does it mean to teach history in our current historical  moment when accessing even facts about the past can pose a real challenge, again, for students,  but for everybody. And AI had just started to really make its way into higher education  discourse, and I was thinking about, well,

what about photographs that are generated by AI?  How can I help students develop some of the skills they're going to need out in the world to access  reliable photographic evidence of events that have happened. So that was all my sort of background  thinking that led me to the project. You started talking a little bit about why  you chose photos as a focus. Can you talk about how you use it as a primary  source material in this class.

Sure, I really wanted to give these students  the opportunity to do the thing really that so many historians love, which is examine primary  sources, look at the leftovers from the past and try to make sense and meaning out of the past.  Photographs are not necessarily simple primary

sources. There's a lot of complexity to them, but  it's the kind of complexity that we in 2025 might be more equipped to grapple with: whe complexities  of analyzing a snapshot moment in time visually requires different critical thinking skills  than combing through a 19th-century document. And so I thought photographs would be a way to  help students do this without overwhelming them with the kind of abilities that you would have  to bring to try to understand… they say the past

is a foreign country… like trying to navigate the  foreign country of the past. I also thought there could be a real opportunity here for students  to look at photographs of where they were right this minute, SUNY Plattsburgh. I had thought  about ways to help students feel more connected to the university, that they belong there,  and that the resources in the library where the Center for Teaching Excellence, where I was  working, where it was situated, these resources,

they are there for the students. The students’  tuition helps pay for them. And I wanted them to know and understand that the Special Collections  in our Feinberg library are there for you to use. The resources are there for you to mine. So I  decided I wanted to have students first go to

the special collections. We would arrange ahead  of time a visit to the special collections. The Special Collections librarian, an archivist,  would collect photographs from the many, many collections of SUNY Plattsburgh life,  things that had happened on campus, events, student life, speakers, meetings, things that had  happened there on the campus. Debra Kimok was the librarian. She would prepare those ahead of time.  I'd bring the students, and I gave them a sheet

with some questions, and then they got to choose  and look through some of these photographs. There were some of some early sporting events, really  there were photographs covering the whole history of SUNY Plattsburgh. We spent a few classes  there, and then their assignment was to take some photographs of SUNY Plattsburgh right now,  their experience of SUNY Plattsburgh, trying to help them see the continuity and the differences  between their own day-to-day experiences and

what they had seen looking at photographs in  the past. We decided together, as a class, that everybody did three photos, and we decided as  a class which ones to select for permanent digital exhibit about their perspectives and experiences  as students in 2024 at SUNY Plattsburgh. That sounds really fun, Jessamyn. It was very, very fun.

I did a project in our Special Collections  using photographs too. And it was a really great experience for students, because most of  them had never been to Special Collections before. I remember them getting excited about seeing  like, “Oh, this is what snow looked like at this time,” versus like the fact that we had, in that  year, no snow, barely at all. It was really fun to see them light up and understand the space  that they were in a really different way.

That's absolutely right. I would say one of  the things that it did really successfully was de-mystify what special collections are,  what their function is. We went a couple times, and the first time we went, the students were  pretty tentative. They came in slowly. They were really hesitant, but the second visit, they  walked right in, they started looking through the photos. They asked the librarian for some more  here and there. So it seemed to really empower

them to do something that we in a U.S. History  class would be uniquely qualified to help them, do not just U.S. history, but anybody  interested in accessing these materials and really help them feel like they belonged  there in the space doing that kind of work. One of the things you mentioned in the write up  of this is just how memorable historic photos are.

I was thinking when I read that back to when I  was studying history sometime in the last century and remembering things like the newspaper that  Truman held up saying Dewey wins or similar, types of things. That lasts much longer than specific  recollection of a lot of the content of the text that we read at the time. What makes these photos  so memorable to students or to any of us? Well, I'm not an expert in the kind of visual  knowledge and visual study of the past via

images. That's not necessarily my expertise  and focus. I come at it from a little bit of a different angle. My sense was less trying  to understand why certain photos become so etched in our memory. When I started, I thought  that would be one of the things I was going to be looking at and having students discuss. But it  quickly became more obvious to me that I wanted them to really explore the idea of the importance  of documenting ordinary life, ordinary day-to-day

life, and the way that photographs provide insight  into that, that many other sources cannot. So I absolutely agree there's ways that photographs  capture major events, historical turning points, but they also, for those of us who really want to  try to understand, what was it like to be alive at a certain time, looking at photographs is  one way that we can try to get our heads around what was it like to walk down the street? What  were people wearing? What was it like to walk

into a house? And for the students, I really  wanted them to think about what was it like to go to a basketball game at different points  in time. What would have been like to live in a dorm and to translate that then into what  they were doing, what they were able to do, because now everybody has a camera with them  all the time, and I'm old enough to remember

that was not always the case, but now it is. So  having them rethink some of the implications or possibilities of their own day-to-day life and  the way it could be recorded in a photograph. And I mentioned that photo of Truman, but I was  also thinking of photos from the Great Depression, food lines, and people in poverty.  It creates a much deeper sense of connection than just reading about it, I think. I think historical empathy is definitely a skill

we would love for undergraduate students to be  able to develop. And yes, definitely photos are one way to do that. It also had a lot of power,  I thought, because as we were doing this project, we were also in the open source textbook that we  were using, we also were focusing our discussions

around the photographs and students. I  found when we went to Special Collections, when we looked at the photos in the textbook, they  were looking for photos that resonated for them in some way with their own experiences, their own  identities or backgrounds, experiences, families, interests. So yes, historical empathy, anything  to help them feel more connected to the material

we were looking at and using. Definitely sounds like a really empowering project, both as kind  of creators, investigators, etc.

Yeah, I think it was. I'll add that it was  interesting in the Special Collections and in what the students chose to take photographs  of that the classroom did not appear very often, and it was interesting how something that  really has a disproportionate impact on what students do and how they feel and if they're  successful at the college and university, that there are so few photographs taken  of it, really at any point in time.

Maybe that's because they were so busy focusing on  their educational activities in the classroom… …maybe so… …that they didn't want to distract themselves with photographs. That would be nice to think. Yeah, well, there were issues. We had to be cautious. We did not want any photograph of  anyone who did not want their photograph to

appear in a possible online exhibit. So that  was another reason. Students wouldn't just be snapping photos of their work in their classes,  but they did include some photographs of like group projects outside of class, work they  did outside of class, meeting up with people in the computer lab, and stuff like that. So can you talk a little bit about what some of the learning outcomes for the project  were? You've hinted at some of them.

Yeah, sure. So the class had standard learning  outcomes for our general education requirements, and I connected work we were doing to those  as well, but in addition, I had four learning outcomes specific to that section and our work  together: use photographs, so by the end of our class, you will be able to use photographs as  primary sources to increase your own understanding of life and events in the United States from  1877 to today; identify what information you

need about a photograph and its historical context  when you are using photos as primary sources; explain how photographs as primary sources  document diverse American Identities, including how some groups experienced bias and  discrimination, and work to create change from 1877 to today; and then finally, apply  what you've learned about photographs as primary sources to document life on campus  at SUNY Plattsburgh, particularly the diverse

identities of our students, faculty, and staff. So, could you talk about some of the projects that students did and how they realized  those learning objectives? Well, the reading and reflection they  did on each section in the textbook, they were choosing photographs from those  sections and reflecting on them to make progress and student learning outcomes, one,  two, and three. So they had a reflection journal.

They talked and reflected on how the photographs  documented diverse experiences, what they needed to know about the source of a photograph… in this  open access textbook, you could trace it back to where did the editor access this photograph. How  do we know that it is what it says it is? And also looking at the way photographs from the American  past document a wide range and diversity of experiences and including people working to enact  a social change. The final one was the one that

they took photographs, discussed why they would be  a good addition to our online exhibit. So we had a shared Google slides that everybody put at least  three photographs that they had taken, and then we talked about them as a class and chose which ones  we wanted to include for the final exhibit. So how did students respond to this project? So I did a poster on this project for the American Historical Association annual meeting. And  in addition to looking at their assignments,

I did a post-project survey, and they were aware  I might use their answers in this poster. There was some strong success. And then there was  a couple things that it did not work as well as I wanted it to work. So I'll start with that  one. The way that the project didn't succeed as much as I wanted it to was the historical aspect  of it. I asked students if, after the project, were they going to be more aware of how historians  use photos to understand the past, and it was 10

students who completed the survey, and only three  of them said it definitely would do that. However, there were some things and what I think is worth  thinking across disciplines, and the takeaways for people in all kinds of classes doing all kinds  of projects. The thing that they really responded most positively to was it was their term. I didn't  say it, it was their term that I saw repeatedly.

They called it the hands-on aspect of the project.  And I think what they were getting at there was that they felt like they were doing things even  beyond just the fact we got out of the classroom to watch a special collections, and even beyond  the fact that they were taking photos themselves, the overall project gave them a sense of doing  something together and working towards this goal,

this shared goal, and they responded very,  very, very positively to that. And really, I think that's a strong takeaway thinking about  our course design and how we assess student learning and the ways a lot of us are really  striving to help students build connections with each other while helping them build these  academic skills. And so that idea of an active

learning approach, a student-centered approach,  they clearly responded to that. They also, in the post-program survey and in other kinds  of discussions I had with them, they felt very positive or were interested in looking at  photographs of their college campus from the past. They found that interesting. They definitely  understand what Special Collections is now. It's

not this weird term they've never heard of. And  the other thing that it did really well was, I do think almost just in the process of doing it, even  if some of them couldn't quite articulate this, but their work showed that they understood that  thing that I was saying I was really hoping they

would get, which is that photographs of ordinary  life are significant and important. And the other thing that worked really well, we talked about  why they could trust that the photographs that were in the textbook were reliable, that they were  what they said they were by tracing them back to

often Library of Congress. And every time they did  that, I would remind them we can trust that this photograph is what it says it is, because the  actual real one that you hold in your hand that was taken is at the Library of Congress, like our  Special Collections and the people who work there, it is their job to make sure it is what it  says it is, and their job depends on it. If they misrepresent it, if they try to falsify  something, they'll get fired. And then we backed

it up by then going to Special Collections. So  students did actually experience, which so few, not just students, like so few people now, to have  the experience of putting your hand on the thing instead of seeing it on the screen. So all those  things together, I feel confident that many of the students left with a better understanding of what  questions do we need to ask about a photograph to verify that it is what it says it is. And this strikes me as being a type of

authentic learning experience which is  not vulnerable to AI. And you mentioned AI at the beginning as one of the factors in  putting this together. Could you talk just a little bit about that aspect of the project? Yeah, I think the concept that I was thinking about, or I would say maybe the principle,the  teaching practice, the principle that I was operating from, is that I always want to convey  to students that their ideas matter. It's my

strength as an instructor. Dynamic lecturing is  not my strength. Being a super lovey dovey is not my strength. But what I'm really, really good  at doing and students get right away from me, is that I'm very fascinated in their thinking,  and I really value their ideas, and I want to empower them to be able to share their ideas and  explain their ideas and write about their ideas in my class and beyond. So the starting point  was that, to the student, your experience of

being a student at SUNY Plattsburgh is important.  It's valuable. I value it. I want other people to value it. We're going to put it in a archive.  We're going to put it in a digital collection that's going to be there and available for anyone  who goes to the SUNY Plattsburgh library digital

collections forever. So all that is to say that it  wasn't taking an approach of, well, I know that AI is unlikely to generate a photograph of a student  at the convenience store at SUNY Plattsburgh or a student's my cat sitting in the dorm window,  but more that students wouldn't need or want to offload that work, because it matters to them.  It was their experience. It was important to them. I mean, it's not just students. Everybody looks  for a shortcut. Our brains look for a shortcut,

especially when we think it's not worth our time.  Nobody goes out of their way to spend more time doing things they think are unimportant. Our  brains are too smart for that. They say “No, no, what's the least amount of work I can do  to get this done?” So I think it makes total sense to ask students to do work that could  help them achieve the learning outcomes, but gives them some choice and some way to make  it meaningful for them. That was the other thing

they said in the survey. They clearly said that  they appreciated having some choice, so they got to choose what to take photos of, and then we  worked together to choose the final ones. That autonomy piece seems incredibly important,  as does this idea of being a part of something bigger, because we're working on like a  collective collection and putting things together so they were depending on one  another to be successful as well.

Yeah, I know that, and some other things I did  in class really emphasized that your colleagues need you to attend and participate. And I did  hear from several students who said something along the lines of it had never occurred to  me that my being in class would help another student. I think a lot about academic  agency and the idea that as a student, I am an active participant in my education,  my success is not dependent on other people,

like mainly the professor. I have agency and power  to do well. It's hard to build those skills as a student, especially a newer student. It was an  interesting class. There was one senior, and then there was a couple second-semester first-year  students. And it was the kind of project where I could see some difference, as in a couple years  of working on building that academic agency.

And one nice aspect of it is in, I  believe it was the words of David Wiley, it's not one of those disposable assignments  where students submit something and they never see it again after the end of the semester.  It has a life that lasts beyond that, which gives it much more intrinsic value. I think so. Of course, I'm a big archive nerd, so I was, like, really hyped up on the fact  it was going to be there forever. I don't know

that that necessarily registered with all the  students. I have a feeling it might be one of those things that students do it and then it may  take a while to kind of percolate and figure out, “Ph, it's still there. Oh, look at that.’  I certainly hope it's around… I believe it

should be there for a long time. And if they were  to have their children thinking about college or going to college, and this is something that they  could show their families, “This is a photograph I took of my dorm, of some friends of mine,  of track practice,” it would be very cool.

It’s fun to think about for sure. So one of the  things that it sounds like it was important to this project is some of the aesthetic components,  or the skill of taking photographs and things that are maybe outside of the historical discipline  that you're in and might take advantage of other skill sets that folks have, but others might  feel like they have a deficit in that space. How did you negotiate that with students? I am lucky, either just by luck of the draw or

the way I conveyed it, they were not worried about  that, which was great. They were not worried about that. And maybe it kind of goes to the fact  that they were really getting that intended point that just ordinary photographs of ordinary  life can tell us so much. Because I will say, and I do write about this in the introduction  to the exhibit, these are not highly artistic or professionally crafted photos, even not  especially revealing journalistic photographs.

They're really casual and ordinary, even to the  point students usually refer to them as pictures. They're pictures they took. They were taken  almost all… there was one person who took some photos with a camera, otherwise it was with their  smartphones. None of them, except this semester, was the semester of the total solar eclipse. So  with the exception of the total solar eclipse,

none of the photos document any exceptionally  rare or groundbreaking events. But when you look at them as a whole, they really reveal day-to-day  details about life for undergraduate students at

Reminds me a lot of some storytelling  projects that I've heard of, even with kids, and things where you put cameras in the hands  of kids to document their daily life to see what it's like through their eyes, it has a  feeling similar to that. And in that respect, I can understand how the aesthetic piece,  like drops back as not being important.

Yeah, they wrote descriptions of the  photos, captions, and sort of summary from the photographer's standpoint, of what's  going on in the photograph, thinking about that historical context piece again. It sounds like a wonderful project, and for students who grew up using Instagram as  their primary social media, it seems like a very natural environment for them to be working in. Yeah, they did not worry about taking photographs

with their phone, that's for sure. This discussion reminds me a little bit of a podcast we did with Martin Springborg  and Cassandra Volpe Hori, who created a book called What Teaching Looks Like. It was, and we  can include a link to the podcast we did with

them as a link in our show notes. In their  book, they captured pictures of day-to-day teaching interactions at many different  institutions for much the same reason: to use imagery to represent the interactions  that were occurring at that point in time in those specific places. One othe rthing we should  ask about is that, when we last talked to you on the podcast, you were at SUNY Plattsburgh,  now you're at Syracuse. Could you talk a

little bit about your new position there? Sure, and I'm so glad to have the opportunity to talk about Picturing Plattsburgh one more  time, because this was the last class I taught at Plattsburgh after 19 years there, so it  was a very bittersweet experience for me,

doing the project and working with the students  there for the last time. I so, so enjoyed working with SUNY Plattsburgh students, and like I  say in the acknowledgement to my new book, sorry for all the mistakes I made, and thank you  for sharing your ideas with me, SUNY Plattsburgh students. I started the new role here at Syracuse  University in August of 2024. I am the Director of their Center for Teaching and Learning Excellence.  We’re a small but mighty center and doing a lot of

collaborations with a lot of new people. You've  actually had two of my colleagues on the Tea for Teaching podcast to talk about our Students  Consulting on Teaching Program, which is one of our signature programs here at the CTLE. So we always wrap up by asking, what's next, Jessamyn? Well, I'm so glad you asked, because I'm hoping to come back pretty soon when  my new book comes out. It's called Snafu Edu:

Teaching and Learning When Things Go Wrong  in the College Classroom. It's going to be published in the University of Oklahoma press  series, Teaching, Engaging, and Thriving in Higher Ed, and I hope it will be available  for pre-order very soon, March/April 2025. We're looking forward to that. We heard  some of the earlier discussions about that on other podcasts, and we're really  glad to see it coming out. And I think

we can learn a lot from those experiences. Well, it's always a pleasure. Jessamyn, thanks for joining us. Thank you so much for having me, …and we hope to be talking to you very soon about Snafu Edu. I'll be there. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please  subscribe and leave a review on iTunes or your favorite podcast service. To  continue the conversation, join us on our Tea for Teaching Facebook page. You can find show notes, transcripts and

other materials on teaforteaching.com.  Music by Michael Gary Brewer.