Talking Talmud - podcast cover

Talking Talmud

Yardaena Osband & Anne Gordon
Learning the daf? We have something for you to think about. Not learning the daf? We have something for you to think about! (Along with a taste of the daf...) Join the conversation with us!
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Episodes

Ketubot 49: Even the Jackal Feeds Its Young

A new mishnah! On "mezonot" - sustenance - that a father turns out not to be obligated to provide for his daughter. But how can that possibly be? The Gemara distinguishes between obligation and mitzvah. Also, the discussion of a decree that a man provide for his children while they're minors. Which leads to a list of complaints to various sages by community members about particular fathers in their midst who aren't providing for their children. At what point does the court insist that a father a...

Aug 24, 202217 minSeason 15Ep. 49

Ketubot 48: The Transactional Equations of Marriage

What does a wife owe her husband? What does a husband owe his wife? From her earnings to her conjugal rights. Which term means what? Each sage who weighs in has rationale and verses to back himself up. Plus, how the Jewish couple is enjoined to avoid the "Persian practice," of sexual relations while fully dressed. Also, a new mishnah: granular details on the chuppah, and responsibility.

Aug 23, 202216 minSeason 15Ep. 48

Ketubot 47: A Wife's Monies

Contractual relationships that a woman (even a girl) has with her father and then, presumably, eventually, her husband. Including the source for the father's "right" to his daughter's earnings. Also, the "sustenance" (mezonot) that a husband provides for his wife. And again, the transactional dynamic of earnings for provisions, dowry for burial, etc.

Aug 22, 202220 minSeason 15Ep. 47

Ketubot 46: The Triangle of Husband, Wife, and Her Father

More on the case of defamation of a woman by her husband. What happens, practically, when one brings such a case? The husband goes to the court, and then the question is whether there are witnesses to the effect that she was had an affair. Also, doesn't the death sentence on her head contradict her collecting the ketubah money?! Also, what is the relationship between the daughter and the father? What about the relationship with the husband?

Aug 21, 202217 minSeason 15Ep. 46

Ketubot 45: Stoning at the Entrance to the City

The case of Motzi Shem Ra - defamation - from a husband against his wife. Namely, his accusation that she has had an affair and has not slept with the husband. She gets a death sentence, and the question is whether she'll be strangled or stoned. This dynamic of his defamation and her (potential) adultery is both concerning and dramatic. Also, the terms and setting of her stoning. Plus the parallel to one who committed idolatry.

Aug 20, 202220 minSeason 15Ep. 45

Ketubot 44: Tailor-made Ketubot

The woman's ketubah can function as a lien, fundamentally, on the man's property. In the case under discussion, of a woman who is betrothed/married twice, do the terms of the second ketubah supplement or replace the terms of the first one? When it comes to regular (non-ketubah) documents, R. Nachman says the second replaces the first. But is that the case for ketubah? Also, a new mishnah: the defamer. Specifically, the implications of defamation for converts - namely, in the case of a husband br...

Aug 19, 202217 minSeason 15Ep. 44

Ketubot 43: Halakhic Estate Planning

R. Avina asks R. Sheshet about the case where a girl's brothers provide for her from the father's estate. Since her father would have gotten her earnings, maybe the brothers should as well... But that's not so clear. Plus, does a man care more for his daughter or his wife, in the precarious circumstances after his death? Also, when the woman has been injured physically in the event if rape.... Plus, to what degree can the sons stand in for their father, with regard to their sister? Plus, a new m...

Aug 18, 202221 minSeason 15Ep. 43

Ketubot 42: Seduction Is Not Consent

A new chapter, a new mishnah. In the event of a seduction or rape, the compensation for degradation, humiliation, and the fine go to her father. Unless he has died and then there's a machloket whether the funds go to her brothers or to herself. Plus, the Gemara's assumption that seduction involves her decision to participate - and yet he must pay compensation. Which calls into question the assumption that she's a willing participant. Also, the ongoing machloket between R. Yosef and Rabbah [Who's...

Aug 17, 202219 min

Ketubot 41: Partial Payments and a Goring Ox

Closing the chapter, with a new mishnah. If someone stole, and then comes clean, he doesn't have the pay the additional fine (eg: 2x the object stolen. Basically, those compensation packages that include payment plus fine, the perpetrator can be exempted from the knas (fine). Why isn't rape on this mishnah? Also, the second half of the mishnah takes us into the Laws of Damages, and a goring ox.

Aug 16, 202217 minSeason 15Ep. 41

Ketubot 40: Putting a Price on Humiliation

3 mishnayot: 1. An orphan who is betrothed and then gets divorced - and is then raped, what penalty does the rapist get? [Who's Who: R. Elazar ben Shamua] Also, defining "boshet"/humiliation. And how to determine the paymenyin compensation for having caused boshet. Plus, the fixed sum as established in the Torah. Also, a father who can sell his minor daughter... and why he can't receive any penalty in the event of her rape.

Aug 15, 202219 minSeason 15Ep. 40

Ketubot 39: Trigger Warning: Rape

There are women who might use the talmudic era version of barrier birth control, including a pregnant woman, a nursing woman, and especially with concern for the minor... So the Gemara defines who is a minor. Plus: "God protects the fools." Also, a new mishnah: what is the difference between a seducer and a rapist? Including the rapist marrying the woman he raped. Plus, the Amoraim consult the women in their lives - an interesting recognition that the "women's voice" was necessary.

Aug 14, 202217 minSeason 15Ep. 39

Ketubot 38: She Can't Go Home Again

A new mishnah! A young woman who is betrothed and then divorced - in the event of rape, would she receive a fine? And who would receive it, if yes? It's a machloket, of course. Also, assessing whose view is represented in the mishnah - beginning with R. Akiva. What do the verses about the fine teach? Plus, juggling source material....

Aug 13, 202216 minSeason 15Ep. 38

Ketubot 37: An Ethic of Justice

A female convert needs to wait 3 months post-conversion before getting married, to be sure she wasn't pregnant prior to marriage. But not everyone agrees. Perhaps she doesn't need to wait at all. The concern being whether she would have protected herself from promiscuity before conversion. Even to what extent would she work to prevent conception, in the event of promiscuous behavior? The women in this case certainly have some measure of agency. Also, the "eglah erufah"! Even the murderer needs t...

Aug 12, 202219 minSeason 15Ep. 37

Ketubot 36: The Spectrum of Violation

A series of cases where divorce or annulment is taking place - when does the wife receive the penalties, for example, if she's been a victim of rape or seduction - especially if she's only betrothed, and presumed to be a virgin. What about a minor? What about an aylonit? What if she's simply older and her hyman is no longer "intact" (without sexual encounter)? What about a blind woman? Also, a new mishnah, specifically on the women who would not have a fine be laid to their fathers in the event ...

Aug 11, 202222 minSeason 15Ep. 36

Ketubot 35: Building Up a Gezarah Shavah

Gezarah shavah! Where does the Torah specify all of the people who would deserve lashes as a punishment? From a gezarah shavah - of one or another, which is a puzzle, because a gezarah shavah should be clear and unique. Plus, the Gemara seems hesitant to learn from this gezarah shavah. Also, delving into the details of this gezarah shavah, once it's been established. Specifically, harm to a person vs. animal, harm on weekday vs. on Shabbat, and more.

Aug 10, 202219 minSeason 15Ep. 35

Ketubot 34: Two Sins, One Death Penalty

If one slaughters an animal on Shabbat or Yom Kippur, that's a violation of Shabbat or Yom Kippur, but the animal is kosher for others to eat. Which seems to line up with the view of R. Yochanan HaSandlar. And the Gemara is going to mull his view and why it lines up here better than the opinions of others do. Also, a novel insight regarding a fine that came together with a punishment that deserves the death penalty - now what? Plus, the classic "ba ba-machteret." All of which comes together to t...

Aug 09, 202219 minSeason 15Ep. 34

Ketubot 33: Lashes, Warnings, and the Fiery Furnace

The impact of warning on sin, punishment, and how it works with plotting (conspiring) witnesses. But how can conspiring witnesses ever get a proper warning?! Unless the warning comes much earlier. But there's some concern about warning witnesses, and messing with their commitment to bring witnesses. Another rationale for not warning the conspiring witnesses is to render their case such that they become impossible to kill, on the basis of their testimony. Also, the apparently reasonable, and yet ...

Aug 08, 202222 minSeason 15Ep. 33

Ketubot 32: According to the Amount of One's Wickedness

A deep dive into a dispute between Ulla and R. Yochanan about not paying and getting lashes, both, for the same event. Plus, a brief discussion of damages in general. Are those damages (5 categories) relevant for all kinds of harm? Also, the mishnayot can be interpreted to mean different cases leading to different punishments, which eases their dispute. Which leads back to one punishment per action - when all the details line up for corporal punishment, as the verses prioritizes things. Note - t...

Aug 07, 202216 minSeason 15Ep. 32

Ketubot 31: Walking, Standing and Throwing

The Gemara discusses at in great detail all the different steps involved with the actions of walking, standing, and throwing and how they relate to the melacha of carrying.

Aug 05, 202214 minSeason 15Ep. 31

Ketubot 30: When a Thief Is Caught Red-handed, Yet He May Not Have to Pay

The case of illicit relationships and the penalty that would need to be paid - which did not align with the view of R. Nechuniyah ben HaKaneh. He draws the connection to a shabbat violation that comes together with a monetary penalty, and how the perpetrator is only obligated on one punishment (and how Abaye and Rava understand his approach). Also, what happens if a zar decides to eat terumah (a karet violation), and stole it from a kohen - shouldn't he be exempt from paying for terumah because ...

Aug 05, 202216 minSeason 15Ep. 30

Ketubot 29: If a Kohen Gadol Rapes a Widow, Can They Marry?

Chapter 3! A situation of rape... Which was treated differently back in the day. In this mishnah, the penalty that a man who rapes a girl (whose presumptive status is that she's a virgin) needs to pay to her father. Plus, the penalty for engaging in an arayot relationship. Also, a dispute about the potential relationship between the man and the woman if the woman's status is questionable - can a marriage between them take effect? Will it work? What about when there are kohanim involved? What if ...

Aug 04, 202215 minSeason 15Ep. 29

Ketubot 28: Childhood Memories

The Gemara makes assumptions about couples that have divorced to protect them against future inappropriate intimacy. Also, a mishnah on adults who recall key information from childhood, and whether their testimony about those past events is legitimate. Plus, the "ketzatzah."

Aug 03, 202217 minSeason 15Ep. 28

Ketubot 27: Holding Hands: To No Avail

A mishnah: A city that was conquered - the women who were married to kohanim are now forbidden to their husbands. But if there were witnesses that the women were unscathed, they are believed, even if they aren't usually considered credible. Plus, a counter example to weaken the strong mishnah statement, via barrels of wine, even during wartime. What if circumstances indicate that they were protected? The sages know they want to be lenient in these cases - let's call it, "magical halakhic thinkin...

Aug 02, 202217 minSeason 15Ep. 27

Ketubot 26: A Woman in Ashkelon

Some historical context for kohanim and leviim, and who got to collect the terumah and ma'aser rishon when... Note the penalty of Ezra with regard to those who did not return to the land of Israel in the time of Shivat Tzion. Plus, kohanim getting their tithes on the threshing floor. Also, a new mishnah: a woman who is imprisoned by non-Jews to get her husband to pay his debt - she's allowed to return to her husband after he pays and she's released. Unlike a "captive woman." But if she's impriso...

Aug 01, 202221 minSeason 15Ep. 26

Ketubot 25: Are You Sure the Kohen Is a Kohen?

A focus on terumah, with the distinction of how that was applied in the land of Israel, as compared to in Babylonia - where terumah derabbanan was in play. Also, it was contingent on the "chazakah" status as kohanim. Note also different kohen practices as establishing kohanim as such, in the various places. Also, how were the kohanim actually established in practice? Various narratives illustrate the ways.

Jul 31, 202216 minSeason 15Ep. 25

Ketubot 24: Could Kohanim Collude?

What happens when 2 people claim that each other is a kohen? Is that sufficient, or is a third person needed to corroborate, such that each person has 2 witnesses confirming his status as a kohen? The answer is found in donkey drivers or merchants, who are presumed to be more likely to collude, among other examples of trustworthy business practices (or not). Also, other practices by kohanim that seem to attest to their legitimate status as kohanim... but are they enough??

Jul 30, 202218 minSeason 15Ep. 24

Ketubot 23: Women Testify

What happens if witnesses as to a woman's captivity only show up after she's already married (as per the mishnah)? The Gemara explains that the mishnah doesn't mean actually married. And if she has witnesses who can corroborate that she was unscathed - that is believed. Likewise, if there are witnesses that she's NOT unscathed, she's supposed to leave her marriage (especially if she's married to a kohen). Plus, a case of events that took place - actual captive women. With Shmuel knocking his fat...

Jul 29, 202211 minSeason 15Ep. 23

Ketubot 22: Self-incrimination, to a Degree

What is a "Beit Din chatzuf"? When the court isn't quite proper, but its acts are upheld. Also, a new mishnah who speaks about herself as having been married and is now divorced - we know that she is believed. And what of this principle of the same mouth permitting and prohibiting, where's its source? Plus, backing up one's statement with a rationale. Also, keeping the hordes away with a false claim of marriage. || Talmudic Principles: chatikha de-isura; amatla.

Jul 28, 202219 minSeason 15Ep. 22

Ketubot 21: Witnesses, Judges, and Stumped Amoraim

Starting with the mishnah on the bottom of the previous daf - the case of witnesses who testify to their own handwriting and also to that if the co-witness - that's credible and upholds the document. But what if they only speak to their own handwriting, and not the other guy? It's a machloket whether the authentication of the other guy, beyond his own corroboration, is necessary. Also, can a witness become a judge? Does a judge need to have been able to be a witness? The discussion begins with t...

Jul 27, 202214 minSeason 15Ep. 21

Ketubot 20: Wherefore Mounds of Dirt?

More on witnesses, and how they prove themselves as reliable. What about when their signatures need validation? What if they are challenged? Plus, a real tangent to a discussion on mounds of dirt that were near the city or on the path - whatever that precisely means - and when they were considered ritually impure.

Jul 26, 202215 minSeason 15Ep. 20
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