Beyond Amazon Lockers: The Future of Delivery & Storage with Van Tucker

Brent Peterson (00:02.37) Welcome to this episode of Talk Commerce. Today I have Van Tucker. He is the Vice President of Technology Partnerships. Van, go ahead, do an introduction for yourself, much better than I just did. Tell us your day -to -day role and one of your passions in life. Van Tucker (00:20.182) Well, thanks for having me on here today. I'm Van Tucker, VP of technical partnerships. A role that kind of changes what we have, whatever we have going on at the time. So on the Harbor side, so, you know, we are a division of Luxor One, which we are a locker, a smart locker manufacturer. And we have a new division called Harbor Lockers, which is like an internal startup that we've been growing for the last couple of years here. And what we do is we, my day to day is I work with a lot of entrepreneurs, a lot of startups, a lot of organizations on developing new innovative locker solutions and how what we'll be talking about more today on this conversation. Brent Peterson (01:01.378) That's awesome and I know in our green room we talked a little bit about camping. Do you have other passions or is camping one of your big passions? Van Tucker (01:09.046) Well, just recently got an RV this year. So camping is one of the top passions for this year. And then also cycling, mountain biking and family. Just recently had a baby about a month ago. So I have two kids now. So that keeps me busy as well. So anything around outdoors and fun when I'm off the computer and off the technologies, usually you find me doing. Brent Peterson (01:33.954) That's awesome. Good. Yeah. I have a dream of driving around Western, the Western United States in an RV someday. And who knows if it's going to happen, but it's on our bucket list. So I guess that's one step. Van Tucker (01:42.454) Thanks for watching! Yep, put it on the vision board. Brent Peterson (01:47.714) All right, Van, so I know that you volunteered to be on the free joke project. I'm just gonna tell you a joke and all you have to do is say, should this joke be free or do you think we should put it behind a paywall? And they are really good, so I have a really good one for you today. Here we go. I just saw a real idiot at the gym. He put his water bottle in the Pringles holder on his treadmill. Van Tucker (02:16.054) Okay? Don't know I think that one should not be behind the paywall free joke Brent Peterson (02:22.626) Alright, yeah, they're all sort of thinking jokes and maybe not guaranteed to be funny, but you have to put some thought into it. Alright, so let's get started. Tell us a little bit about the Locker Network. Tell us what that means. Van Tucker (02:28.598) That's a thinking joke. Van Tucker (02:40.31) Yeah, so we're building a public locker network. You know, you might have seen lockers around the United States, Amazon lockers. You know, you get an order on Amazon. Say if you want to deliver it to a nearby point where you want to deliver it to your house, maybe because you're traveling or you have an issue with porch piracy, but it's typically only exclusive to Amazon. So what we've been doing is we've been developing a locker, open locker network that goes around cities in a very open model. where multiple companies can use them for deliveries. But in addition, it's a locker network, meaning it's not just for commerce. Today we're on Talk Commerce podcast, but there's a lot of other use cases you can use these lockers for as well for returns, storing supplies in bags. So that's what we've developed, what we call a locker that we can use for a lot of different use cases. And what we call it is what it is, is a marketplace locker. So we deploy them around cities for no charge to the companies you use. upfront and they just pay a hardware as a service fees. Every time they use one of those locker compartments, we charge a little usage fee when they have a usage for their customer. So that's what it is. And we have about 30 different companies we're working with currently building out different solutions on top of the network. Brent Peterson (03:55.746) And so how does this, I mean, I guess I can see how it competes against the Amazon locker. How does it differentiate itself? I suppose. Anyways, I'll let you answer the question. I've already thought of the answer in my head, but go ahead. Van Tucker (04:08.246) Yes, the way it makes it different, the biggest difference is, you know, this is an open locker where Amazon's locker is exclusively locked up to Amazon. They're dedicated for, you know, you buy something on Amazon's marketplace where these other lockers, you know, can be used for, you know, Amazon could use them. But in addition, it could be any other carrier, brand, merchant, retailer can use these lockers on demand. So that's the big difference that, you know, it's really empowering all the other individuals and companies. to offer a locker base experience without doing a huge locker investment to deploy lockers around cities. Brent Peterson (04:43.49) And so tell us sort of your network and how big you've gotten so far. Van Tucker (04:49.526) Yeah, so a part of a company called Luxor One, so we're one of the leading locker manufacturer networks in the United States. That's within our private locker network, you can say. So we have over 10 ,000 locker locations in the United States at multifamily apartments. You might have heard of us, Luxor One, if you had an apartment, there's a chance there's a locker solution, that's us. In addition, we have retail locations like the Home Depot lockers, which you can buy online, pick up in store. You know, this new marketplace locker, what about 150? the lockers deployed currently, you know, in May 2024, during this recording. But, you know, we're being ready to have over 25 harbor -enabled locations deployed over the next two years. So it's a big, busy two years coming up to get those that many lockers deployed from 150 to 25 ,000. But a lot of that is also a lot of stuff behind the scenes, how we can really scale it out quickly as well. Brent Peterson (05:42.786) to tell us about some of the partnerships you're building. Van Tucker (05:46.294) Yeah, so some of the partners that we're building, we initially have been working with a lot of hyper local startups to provide, really empower the small SMB businesses within cities because that's where a lot of business happens. It's a small retailer, small mom and pop stores that have very limited hours. And maybe those have one person working at a store and maybe they don't even have a storefront. So we work with a company called Relay, which offers marketplace solutions, which enables merchants. to use these as brick and mortar storefronts through the lockers. In addition, we have Drop Locker, which is a bag storage app. This is a company which we built internally as initially as this kind of a use case of, hey, how are we going to use the lockers? But now that they spun off into its own business unit, which does bag storage at event venues. So say we go into a music concert, they have a clear bag policy. Say, hey, Brent, you drove in there on an Uber to the concert. you have your bag that you're not supposed to take. Instead of going back into Uber or throwing it in the trash can, you can actually store it in our lockers there. So we have that at currently about 10 venues around the United States. So there's a lot of different use cases that we've been doing. And we recently got a new Shopify app enabled through another partner, which lets Shopify app stores become enabled as well as they leverage our public lockers as a delivery and pickup location as well. Brent Peterson (07:08.258) Yeah, and I know that some of the artists, speaking of it, I went to a Jack White concert and they make you turn in everything. You can't even bring your phone in. They have you put your phone in a little bag and give it to somebody and they give it back to you. So I would imagine this would give them more flexibility so you could not be concerned about getting, maybe losing it as just giving it to somebody at the entrance. Van Tucker (07:22.646) Mm -hmm. Brent Peterson (07:38.21) What other solutions, I can think of one solution that, you know, at airports especially where you're, you may have a long layover in some of the hub cities that you might want to get out and see the city where you need to put your bag somewhere. What sort of solutions do you envision in the future for some of these? Van Tucker (07:59.286) That's what we do see a great opportunity is airports. Give them deployed into airports is a little more difficult, especially with the TSA. So before 9 -11, there was lockers at airports. A lot of things have changed a lot when it comes to lockers and storing things at airports in the United States. So that's something we're working on. That's where we see the future is having them near airports, around cities, even go to a trade show and check out time for a hotel. is at 9 a but your flight may be not until 2 p How do you go store in a locker nearby instead of going to the hotel check desk and things like that. So that's where we see the future. And that's why us deploying more and more of those locker locations all around cities for the different use cases is key, but that's where we do see the future. At airports, we do have a partner called Autonomy, which offers a robotic... robot that goes around airports today, but which uses some of our locker technology to open and close the lockers for food deliveries. But you know, today we don't do bags storage at any airports. Brent Peterson (09:04.642) Do you see the future of food as one of the, of an option for lockers, knowing that somebody's gonna have to make sure they get it out of the locker? Van Tucker (09:13.11) Yeah, it's already... Yeah, so... Yeah, so we don't offer, we just have ambient controlled lockers, which are not refrigerated, heated. So this may to be put in a very fast pickup. If I can make a quick sort of restaurant and things like that to pick it up quick. So we do see those partners that we work with that have lockers that use our technology. So because all of our lockers are controlled via mobile app to open and close the locker. So we have partners, other manufacturers we work with actually have Harbor enabled lockers, which open and close the lockers for those use cases. We see that today and that's where we are seeing like with our partners, how do we get more and more different locker use cases for food because food in asynchronously handing off, especially in like dorms and office buildings, you know, having that door dash person go all the way up to you or maybe you'd be recording this podcast where I don't want my food. delivered to me right now, but it's put at the locker on the corner for a few minutes, I get off and go grab it for lunch. So that's where we see him having a very short period of time of storage in these locks for food, not any long -term storage today. Brent Peterson (10:26.21) How about the, I mean, some of this does go back to like contact lists, customer service and making sure that everybody's safe. How does that play into it? Van Tucker (10:38.134) Yeah, that's all kind of the premise came from, especially during COVID everything, you know, that's really accelerated contactless and asynchronous deliveries and more and more people being more comfortable not even not going having things delivered to their door or even going to buying things online. You know, it's been a huge boom for it. So we do see, you know, that's where the lockers are secured, especially in like a Facebook marketplace setting where you don't want maybe you want to sell something. but you really don't feel comfortable meeting up the person face to face. Well, we have apps in our marketplace, which you can sell something on Facebook and you can asynchronously drop the item off in the locker. The person can go buy it up and you never see them face to face. And that makes it more secure because you can do it anytime. I mean, you not have to have those issues where you may go face to face in a scenario. And the lockers are, they are lockers, so they're not a safe. So they're not, we don't want you to go put your very expensive stuff. items being sold in these lockers. But they are, we've done tons of testing to make sure they're secured for crowbars and being broken into. But that's where we kind of see, we put them in great locations with good lighting and a safe area. In addition, the asynchronous part really makes them more secure. Brent Peterson (11:52.962) I think for some of the older listeners, they may envision a locker like at a bus station where you get a key, a physical key, and you have to take it with you and then you put the key back in. This is much more user friendly and also, I would imagine, friendlier for the locker company because it's all controlled by an app and it's all, I'm assuming it's Bluetooth enabled, so you just bring your phone near it and it pops it open. Tell us about some of the tech background and the technology. Van Tucker (12:23.094) Yeah, because a lot of lockers have a kiosk screen or something like that, and those cause a lot of issues when they're outdoor. They can be broken, they're vandalized. And so we built a headless locker. So it's built on an open API SDK that seamlessly goes into the app that you're already using. So say if you're using a DoorDash app or another delivery app, instead of you have to use another app, it's fully integrated into it. So you make the order on your mobile app. That's where most orders are now happening via mobile devices. You can get an email, click on the email, open the locker directly through. That is open via Bluetooth. So that's how we manage all of the connectivity for the customers to drop off or pick up items. And then we have an open API, which lets all of our retailers and partners be able to see all of our lockers within our network. And that lets them add really rich experience, checkout pages, or any other ways they want to display the lockers into their existing user experience. So that's where we built it in a very open framework which lets anyone really build rich experiences on top of it. Brent Peterson (13:25.026) Do you see this helping out any delivery company because you kind of minimize that last mile where you put that last mile in a more of a communal location? Does that help across both delivery and reception? Van Tucker (13:42.486) Yeah, so delivery companies, delivery to lockers are still in the early stages in the United States. In Europe and Asia, they are much more popular for customers desiring to have the items delivered to lockers. So for delivery companies today, there is still a lot of education around delivery to lockers. But for delivery exceptions, they're amazing. So you can actually get them. So say if you have an item that requires a signature to be delivered or you get the... Brent Peterson (14:07.458) Echo Speaks Updates are available. Van Tucker (14:08.758) Delivery because they can actually use them as an alternate pickup location So that saves costs for the delivery company to go to that location again and the customers happier because they can then get it the same day versus waiting another day or maybe going to the Shipping hub to pick it up in addition most of the time these are shipping to commercial addresses that does save savings to the end customer so they can do it and shipping companies also like it as well because they can consolidate their drop -offs instead of going to every single house and do a drop off. They can do a bulk drop off at a single location, especially as useful for more regulated products. So if we're doing some wine or alcohol, anything that requires a signature, you can have it delivered to the locker as well. Brent Peterson (14:50.53) Tell me more about that. I would imagine it would be much more difficult with wine because you need to get somebody that's old enough to pick it up. Tell us a little bit about how that streamlines that process. Van Tucker (15:06.134) Yeah, so we're just in the locker business. So we provide the locker access control and the solutions, then partners build their solutions on top of it. Fortunately, there's been a lot of improvements in technology. So when you integrate into your mobile app with another partner, when you're standing at the locker, you can do a real -time verification of ID in the person there via another API. So very similar to when you go through a clear line at an airport. you can do the same idea. They can verify the person's actually the person picking it up via the camera on their phone. Once they verify the ID, the door pop open very nice and asynchronously all driven by technology as well. Brent Peterson (15:43.106) That's pretty cool. Yeah, so tell us, talk a little bit about how this brings sustainability into the market. Van Tucker (15:45.938) Yeah, it's pretty sweet. Van Tucker (15:57.43) Sustainability is still a big component, especially for a lot of companies that have green mandates in other cities that are doing mandating delivery companies. That's one of the big things as the rise of e -commerce has also raised the demand of more and more deliveries going to cities to deliver one package at a time. Before you go down to Walmart or go to the store and pick up an item all in bulk, now, Amazon's kind of made the lifestyle where you just click it, click it, click it throughout the day. Next thing you know, you have a pile of boxes up here in your house with a lot of different deliveries. So a lot of cities are actually mandating and working on plans to force delivery companies to consolidate deliveries. In addition, not go in different operating hours in New York. There's currently a pilot with lockers where they can actually making puto points around the city to deliver. In addition, to cut down in carbon footprint is these lockers. You see it in Europe is, you know, as I mentioned before, the carrier companies reduce an amount of single stops and go into a point. That's where you get really big improvements when it comes to the green initiatives is cutting down the amount of miles a delivered truck goes and that stop and go into each house. Brent Peterson (17:16.258) Earlier I think you mentioned Autobot. Tell us a little bit about that technology and how it works in conjunction with Harbor. Van Tucker (17:26.262) Yeah, so Autonomy is a separate company we work with as a partner of ours. We do a lot of partners. We're a partnership driven organization and Autonomy is a self -driving robot. We had them at CES earlier this year with us. And what we've done with that partnership is Autonomy, the Autobot, it's almost like a locker on wheels. So it's a much bigger robot base, which is a module where you can do a lot of different things on that robot. So what we developed is an integration which enables to have different lockers on that robot. Very similar to deliveries, you know, a lot of robots today is only one delivery per route. Their robot is large enough and has different departments. So it can be driving throughout the city and have multiple drop -offs with different customers because each locker compartment can be accessed by different customers. And it's all using the Harbor technology to open and close that locker through the same mobile app. that opens one of our public marketplace lockers at a physical static location with Autonomy Autobot Locker. It'd be a location that moves around. You can pick it up through the same technology as well. And today, that's been mostly used in product sampling is a great use case. If you go into a festival and you want to try out a product, you can download an app and get within the festival app and get samples and try things out. The same thing with food and all these other use cases that we're working with them on. Brent Peterson (18:51.938) Yeah, so I suppose you could think of it as the old fashioned sandwich machine. You could drive around an expo or a concert and give people the option of picking some food out based on whatever they're buying from their app, right? I mean, if you want to extrapolate that out. What are you most excited about this year now coming up in terms of the technology and the breadth of where you're going in terms of expansion? Van Tucker (19:07.862) Exactly, yeah. Van Tucker (19:22.966) Well, one thing I'm really excited about, we have this open API in SDK to integrate Harbor and get started. But it's a very development -centric platform to get started. You have to integrate the API in SDK. So I'm super excited. We just recently launched a new app on our solution called Harbor Pilot, which is an app which lets anyone start running a pilot today on Harbor. So if they were a brand or retailer that wanted to say, I want to try some lockers out, but before they get their dev team and want to start integrating things with this new app called HarborPilot that can even be skinned to the retailer's experience, which lets them really start within three minutes. These download apps, a couple of settings, and they can start offering locker -based solutions without any integrations. Same thing with that Shopify app that we just kind of released with as well. So. That's the thing I'm super excited about. We've got enough apps and solutions on our ecosystem to let people out listening to his podcast that may be excited about lockers and they want to try it out. There's a high chance we have lockers in your city and you can actually start using them today with one of the apps where, and that's what gets me super excited. Brent Peterson (20:30.946) In terms of technology development, I would assume there's some minimum technology level that the physical lockers have to meet, or do they have to use a harbor locker? Van Tucker (20:43.798) Yeah, today, most of all the locations employed are we own the lockers. They use all their Harbor technology within the lockers. We do work with some partners like Autonomy, which uses some of our technology in their lockers. But today, all the lockers are our lockers, which are what we call Harbor enabled. But we do see a future where as people come to us, like the food delivery lockers and things like that, how we make other lockers compatible with ours. Because... The more lockers, the better. We see the United States is a huge market, North America in the world. How do you get more and more lockers? So more and more customers have lockers near them that they can use them. So we see this as really democratizing lockers, and we try to collaborate with anyone we can within the locker space. Brent Peterson (21:29.122) You mentioned earlier that the US kind of lags behind Europe and Asia. What is it that the Europeans are doing better than us, or is it just a cultural thing where we are really kind of working our way into it? Van Tucker (21:45.846) A few different things, you know, in Europe, specifically in Asia, a lot of the cities are much more compact with a lot of people in the local area. So that makes it much easier to deploy lockers. Also, Amazon did not offer free shipping in those markets at first to get people used to having the package delivered to their doorsteps. So home delivery is not as popular, it's never been as popular in Europe, where the United States has now been... really hard, how much more convenient can I do going to your doorstep? So, you know, that's where the United States kind of lags behind is as people got so used to having the convenience, very difficult to go back. And where Europe also had much stronger green mandates forcing carrier companies unable to deliver into city cores. And that's where lockers kind of got really helped a lot of acceleration to regulate legatory and legal actions that this cities kind of forth to carry your companies to do as well. Brent Peterson (22:43.426) It's awesome, Van, we have a few minutes left still. As we close things out, I give everybody a chance to do a shameless plug about anything they'd like. What would you like to plug today? Van Tucker (22:55.702) Well, if you never used the Locker before, like I was saying before, you can go to harvardlockers .com slash apps. You can see all the apps on our marketplace. There you can see a variety of apps. You can find one for your use case, for your returns or an outbound shipment. In addition, that Harbor Pilot app. You can open it up, sign up. Today, very quick and easy. You can see all the apps within. Most of the apps on the marketplace have little pins. We can see our lockers. Find a locker near you, try it out. That'd be my recommendation. Put something in it, share with a friend. Could be if you're a retailer, this is a commerce website, hey, if you got something, a local customer, instead of waiting for them to come pick it up at Willcall, put it in the locker. So we don't see lockers, depending what business it is, and maybe 100 % your business, but they use them 100 % of the time, but they maybe just use also for edge cases. Maybe. 80 % of the time you do delivery, but 20 % deliveries you can do through the locker. So that's what I'd recommend today. Just go check out the website, kind of think of it. And if you have any questions, feel free to reach out to me. Brent Peterson (24:00.002) Yeah, and so just, I'll make sure I get the links in the show notes, but tell us how to get in touch with you or tell the listeners how they can best get in touch with you. Van Tucker (24:13.462) Yep, that's the way you can go. You can email me at VanTucker at harbordlockers .com. You can find me on LinkedIn as well, Van Tucker. In addition, you can just go to harbordlockers .com. Just click the contact form and put your details in. The team will get it forward to me as well. Brent Peterson (24:27.17) That's perfect, Van. It's been a great conversation. Thank you so much for being here. Van Tucker (24:34.166) Thanks for having me on the show. Thanks.