Ehrika Gladden | Leading Through Transformation: Why Human Capital Matters

Ehrika

00:00 - 00:06

A big part of the reason you gotta let leaders lead is because you have to actually be able to pay attention to the people who work for you.

Chris

00:06 - 00:13

Why is it important for leaders to be able to lead through transformation? That's the question I have for you.

Ehrika

00:13 - 02:30

Well, isn't leadership the key part of anything we're doing? People are looking to the leader. Right? How is the leader affected? How is the leader going to address things that frankly people who are often smarter than us as leaders already have an opinion about? How are people going to feel? Culture is at the heart of everything that you talk about in a transformation or, you know, use the word change interchangeably.

The bottom line is, as a leader, how you communicate and what you want your organization to do is, frankly, the pace at which they'll they'll go through that, the way that they'll go through that transformation. Right? And it makes me think about I had a boss.

He's actually one of my favorites, crazy guy out of Boston. I'm not gonna mention his name because because he'll he'll hear this, Chris, and he'll be like, okay.

That wasn't a compliment necessarily. If I was your favorite, why did you say this? So I'm a I'm a leave his name out of it.

But he met me, and he saw my resume. And if you look online, I have a degree in public relations communication from the fabulous University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, but there's still comms in there.

Right? And he got my resume, and he said, well, you can tell you took the light approach to your college education. And I thought to myself when he said this, I never told him this, well, clearly, you you need a course in it because who would say who would say that to someone? And and that's in the whole the whole process of transformation is exactly that in a nutshell.

How you as the leader feel, 75% of communications is nonverbal. People can pick up on that.

25% is verbal. Whether you're nailing how you communicate with people is a part of that.

It's the hardest thing to do communications. Right? And so we're talking about transformation.

We're talking about org change. But what we're really talking about is how do you move people through that so that when they get on the other side of it, they feel ready to go.

They feel like it was worth it. They're bought in.

You want them to buy in. Right? So I say, first of all, yeah, there's a lot coming at us as leaders.

There there's a huge amount in terms of AI, machine learning, the global economic, macroeconomic situation we're in. You're trying to figure out your ops.

You're trying to figure out, how you keep your roster engaged. And at the same time, you gotta do that in a way that steadies and calms the ship.

Has a lot to do with how we communicate.

Chris

02:30 - 02:48

How important is it knowing more or less the culture or the vibe of your team? Not just the production and results and the numbers but like when it comes to deploying that messaging and transformation. And are there ways you do that whether it's through skip levels or town halls? Like, yeah.

What does that look like?

Ehrika

02:48 - 05:02

I said something before. I'm gonna go back to it.

And this is another reason I believe in letting leaders lead. I have a day job.

If I'm a CEO, if I'm a member of the c suite, my day job should be very different than the leaders who are directs of mine, than the leaders who work for my directs, than the managers' frontline, than the individual contributors. A big part of the reason you gotta let leaders lead is because you have to actually be able to pay attention to the people who work for you.

I have rarely been surprised when someone's leaving my team, when someone's ready to go, when someone's not happy. In fact, with you, in our partnership, I've built benches because I already know, look, this person's gonna roll at a certain point.

I gotta be ready. Or if I guessed wrong, I still gotta be ready with other talent that can backfill.

Yeah. People have choices.

If you when you hire great talent, they have choices, and you have to expect that they're gonna make different choices. Sometimes because the environment isn't what they're interested in and they're not on board.

Sometimes they're in over their skis and they don't wanna admit it and you know it. So a lot of my, assessment and and knowledge about my team is I spend a ton of time with them.

Now I'm also busy externally working with clients, with investors, with analysts, with partners, consultants, my own network. And so I don't necessarily always have a 100% of my time dedicated to them.

But when I'm engaging with them, they're the ones that are running those meetings. So if a top performer isn't engaged, I gotta know why.

I'm gonna find out why. I may not come to him or her directly and say, hey.

Why weren't you engaged? But I'm gonna double click on that to see, were they having a bad day? Are they going through a divorce? Is one of their children sick? Or are they actually about to bail? And you can pick that up through observation. It doesn't need to be something where you're infringing on people's lives and you're, you know, you're chasing your team.

It's not like that. But if you are accessible enough and approachable enough as a leader, then you also get the benefit of that, which is I'm engaging.

I'm not about to get surprised. And on the rare occasion that I am, I can be building a bench and have enough room to treat people with dignity and respect as they choose to leave and not have the organization in a place where it's disconnected or it's disrupted because a leader leaves.

Chris

05:02 - 05:50

So this is so interesting you say this because this goes a lot into what we do, Erica. And it it's like the the spouse analogy.

Hey, honey. How was your day? It was fine.

Then you know that day was not fine. Right? And even though it was verbal, it's the body language.

It's also the non verbals that you can pick up on. And I feel like that's where a lot of executives, again, from my perspective, what I see really missed the mark.

Like, some of them are very good about how they conduct themselves, like them. So when their team is looking at them, okay, everything's great.

But then there's the other side of the coin of recognizing like you just said, like, that person wasn't engaged. Like, why? What's going on here? And maybe that's an like a a a symptom of a bigger underlying problem.

Ehrika

05:50 - 05:51

You nailed it.

Chris

05:51 - 05:59

Would you say that's probably one of the biggest challenges that leaders have? Like, they can control themselves pretty well, but they tend to ignore the other areas.

Ehrika

05:59 - 07:53

Yeah. Hey.

Listen. This is hard work.

I mean, we the the first thing I have a a mantra that I've used for a decade, if not more, outstanding success re results from amazing people. And it's a play on words.

It's really important. Really important.

People are the last word in that sentence when actually they're the most critical part of any formula to running a business. Correct? But the bottom line is, as c suite members, as CEOs, as board members, results are the success and results are the most important thing.

And outstanding success and results pays dividends, literally, if you're dealing with public companies. And so you gotta nail it.

Well, how do you do it? It's the people. But look, we're we're in a bind.

We're in a jam because 95% of the time, the only thing anybody's asking us I could tell you now as a board member, I don't ask the boards the the leaders of the boards that I'm on, how are the people? The first thing out of my mouth is, what's going on? What you know, how are the numbers? Everything looking good? And I get to the people. Right? And yet we as leaders all know people matter more than anything.

Because without them, the business isn't successful. So this little mantra is a way to unlock for teams that I'm I'm, a part of.

Hey. Look.

I you matter more than anything, but the place I go first when I'm leading a transformation is my human capital strategy. It's the first thing I'm thinking about.

The thing I do all day, build a bench. I have an appointment later today where I'm sitting with someone who next assignment, this lady's on the team.

I mean, there's no question she's on that team. So I'm constantly building a bench.

But the hard struggle, we're we're in a dichotomy of sorts. Right? You you gotta nail results.

You've gotta be clear what the forecast is. You can't miss on operational capacity, and then there's human capital.

Right? And so, yeah, it's it's it's tough. It's a it's a tough thing, but you you gotta prioritize it.

Chris

07:53 - 08:20

Are there different types of transformations that organizations go through? Is there, like, a technology stack, like, type of transformation where their systems are outdated? Or is it a human capital? They just don't have the right type of talent for where they need to go. Maybe they're selling new solutions or developing new solutions that they've never done before, like services or whatnot.

What are you seeing companies go through out there? Like, is there one size fits all? Is it everybody's going through a different type of transformation?

Ehrika

08:20 - 08:41

Yeah. I think I don't think it's one size fits all.

I I do think some are time bound. We know we need to get to a certain place in the next five years.

We as a board have decided that, therefore, we're gonna take our time and get through that. Some are regulatory in nature.

There's regulatory conditions that dictate the change.

Chris

08:41 - 08:41

Yeah.

Ehrika

08:41 - 09:26

To be complete, complete overhaul. Some are product related because we've got a lead product that that has driven our growth.

We know that we're gonna lose our market position, or we know that that market's now under pressure, so we've got to evolve to what's next. I grew up in that at, at Cisco with the most diversified and phenomenal portfolio out there, and yet you still needed to evolve to software, right, to take pressure off the, transactional nature of business versus the recurring revenue and the and the software.

And so, you you know, it it it really depends on the company, the size of the company. But in the end, the impact, I think, is consistent.

Chris

09:26 - 09:56

When you're going through this transformation and you have talent that has got you up to a certain point, and they're they're stellar, But there's always casualties in any type of change. They're just they're just is.

It's inevitable. We don't wanna see it.

But as leaders, that's one of the toughest things is where when do you make that call that, hey, this person, like, is not where we need to go, and they're not gonna change. Like, how do you do that? That's I feel like that's not as easy as said as it's done.

Ehrika

09:56 - 12:10

Last thing you wanna do is is disappoint people. Right? I'm gonna say this really plainly and and Yeah.

And I'll say it this way because I think for those listening, you know, they're listening for a reason. They they wanna hear these answers.

You know, as soon as you are embarking on a transformation, who's gonna make it and who's not. You absolutely know.

You know before you get to that point. And every c leader or executive or director that's listening to this call knows it's true.

You know in your gut. It's what you said.

It's how you do it. Now if you do it the minute you know it, you're creating chaos in your organization.

You're disrespecting talent that's got you to has gotten you to a certain point. You're creating stress in in the in the in the system.

Someone's gonna repeat it. Human resources is about the only place.

Yeah. And even then, sometimes, if you don't have the right CHRO, and I've been in in organizations that didn't, that person isn't the vault they're supposed to be.

But if if HR is where if talent and people are where they should be as as a c suite member, that's about the only place you can go. The key to it is not necessarily predicting the future because people will surprise you too.

Like, they'll they'll they'll get new energy behind something. So I've been in a place where I'm like, yeah.

Okay. We're gonna we're gonna make this change.

He or she is not gonna make it. And I'll be doggone if they don't get on board with the messaging because now there's something new.

There's something crystal clear. They understand the parameters by which you're operating, the consequences of not changing.

And all of a sudden, it's like, hey. I I got new energy or something changes in their lives personally.

So you you can't predict the future, but you can be clear based on skill sets and competencies and past performance and the direction that you're headed that people aren't necessarily gonna gonna make it. The key is to give everybody an opportunity to buy in and participate in the transformation.

When you are gonna have the conversation, people should not be surprised. They should already know that's coming.

And and how do you do that? It's it's over time. It's being really clear about what you expect.

One on one. That's not a public thing.

No public floggings. I've done that before.

That's a disaster. No public floggings.

Chris

12:10 - 12:11

Yeah.

Ehrika

12:11 - 12:27

I've done that. That's look.

Dignity and respect are required. But when you have one on ones with people, you're traveling on the road together, you gotta ask them.

Ask the questions about what you expect. So instead of it being, hey, Chris.

You're not getting this done. You gotta say, hey.

Why did this turn out that way?

Chris

12:27 - 12:41

What message if there's one message you want someone to take away from this dialogue, what would you tell an executive or anybody who ever thinks about getting into leadership, going through a transformation, and this is what you I can give you one message. This is what it is.

Ehrika

12:41 - 14:06

Oh, look. The first part is, look.

Change is gonna happen. We've all heard that.

There's there's nothing profound in that. So so be the leader of the transformation.

Don't don't shy away from it because of how complex it is or how hard it is. Lead it because someone has to do it, and you're in the privileged position of having the opportunity to do it.

Give yourself some grace in that you don't have to be perfect. You're gonna make choices on the strategic road that that fail.

Give yourself some grace in doing that. Your your employees will do that if you've treated them with dignity and respect through transparency, high expectations that are very clearly communicated, and and have some fun with it.

You know, I love building businesses. I love transformation.

I love leading it. I love all the gnarliness of it too.

Yeah. But it's because at the same time, I'll I'll go for a run.

I'll hit the Peloton. I'll hang out with my employees.

I'll I'll spend time with my peers. I'm all over the place traveling and all those other places, but that's to recover too.

Right? That's a big part of my my recovery strategy. So have some fun with it.

Give yourselves some grace. But for crying out loud, companies don't have enough great leaders like those of you who are listening to this.

Go ahead and be the person who who takes the privileged position of leading it and and watch your employees follow you. They'll they'll applaud you for it.

Chris

14:06 - 14:28

Yeah. And I will say this too to kinda add to that is and I tell myself this even though I'm not running companies like these execs are, but everybody gets into a place of just stress.

And it's almost like it's a privilege to have that stress. And I I don't know if it's Steph Curry or somebody, but it's what an athlete.

Like, it's it's a privilege to be in that, like, last game last shot. Like, not everybody gets to be in that situation.

Ehrika

14:28 - 14:29

Come on.

Chris

14:29 - 14:40

Right? So I just thought that was a unique way to, like, reframe how you think about when you're in some shit situation. It's a privilege to go through that.

Right? Even if it turns out bad.

Ehrika

14:40 - 14:51

And you got this. Like, what's the worst that could happen? You sleep for a couple hours, get up, and you and and you start it again.

Right? It is what's the worst that could happen. So yeah.

No. Appreciate it, Chris.

Thank you. Thanks for the time.

Chris

14:51 - 14:53

No. This is a great conversation.

Thanks, Erica.