[Ed] Well, you know, swingers are rule breakers. [Phoebe] Apparently, I'm a very naughty girl. [Ed] Right. [Ed] Swinging has a bad rap. [Phoebe] Because we are hurting the institution. [Ed] Swingers are not the best with consent. [Phoebe] Additional partners. [Ed] Additional partners. [Ed] Three additional partners. [Unknown] Whatever. [Ed] Hi, I'm Ed. [Unknown] I'm Phoebe. [Ed] And this is Swingery University. [Ed] And we are not in the studio.
[Ed] And I've said that for the last three episodes. [Unknown] But if it's not obvious, this is not the studio. [Ed] Today's episode is a little bit different. [Ed] We've talked about this bits and pieces. [Ed] We had an episode a long time ago, good baffles, bad apples. [Ed] But we wanted to get back into this because it keeps coming up. [Unknown] And we're talking about swingers are rule breakers. [Ed] We heard this recently in a post that somebody had made.
[Ed] We were like, well, you know, swingers are rule breakers. [Ed] We wanted to talk about that a little bit. [Ed] Everyone knows that swingers are rule breakers, right? [Ed] Or are they? [Ed] Should we break rules? [Ed] And which rules are made to be broken? [Unknown] Did you see the first jump? [Ed] If you spot it, put a comment in the video that you saw a fish.
[Phoebe] Yeah, this is a video where you're going to have [Phoebe] to identify all the things that are in the video other than us, too. [Ed] Right. [Ed] I started thinking about this in terms of rule breaking and swingers. [Ed] And we all joke about it a little bit. [Ed] But there's a reality to this. [Ed] And that is ethical non-monogamy breaks a lot of rules. [Unknown] So by very nature, we are the ultimate rule breakers. [Ed] Right. [Ed] So let's talk about the big picture one.
[Ed] So you've got monogamy versus non-monogamy, swinging in polyamory, right? [Ed] And whether you like it or not, ethical non-monogamy is a giant umbrella [Unknown] and swinging and poly and all the variations in between the two. [Ed] They all fit under this umbrella. [Ed] And the opposite side of that is monogamy. [Ed] We're all breaking that rule. [Ed] It's a taboo. [Ed] And we're all in it because that's what we've committed to is to be non-monogamous.
[Ed] The fact that if you're a married couple and you're having sex with other people, [Unknown] guess what? [Ed] That's adultery. [Ed] So we're breaking that rule, too. [Ed] But it's by choice and it's a mutual agreed. [Ed] We're consenting adults. [Ed] We went into this together. [Ed] I'm not coercing her, she's not coercing me. [Ed] This is it. [Ed] This is by choice. [Ed] So what two consenting adults decide to do, whether it's by themselves or with other [Ed] people?
[Phoebe] You're the fuck on scares. [Unknown] Right? [Unknown] And honestly, that breaks some rules because some people are like, well, you shouldn't [Ed] do that. [Unknown] Who? [Phoebe] According to who's rules. [Ed] Right. [Unknown] Who are you hurting? [Ed] That's our position on this. [Phoebe] Yeah. [Unknown] From that or anything. [Ed] And, you know, which kind of leads into the whole thing, which is sex is fun.
[Ed] And if it's fun and consensual and recreational and not just for procreation, why can't it be [Ed] a good thing? [Ed] Why can't it? [Unknown] Because we are hurting the institution, the religious institution. [Phoebe] Well, and so we're eroding the religious institution and the rules of that, which erodes [Phoebe] society, which means as rulebreakers, we don't conform, which means we are now like [Phoebe] non-conformists, which they can't control. [Phoebe] And that's scary. [Ed] Right.
[Ed] Because if I decide to have hot dogs for dinner at my house, that prevents you from having [Ed] hamburgers at your house or does it. [Unknown] Hmm. [Ed] I don't think it does. [Ed] I don't think it does. [Unknown] There you go. [Ed] That's the whole thing about taboo and by its very nature, you know, we're all kind [Ed] of breaking that rule. [Unknown] Hmm. [Ed] Let's talk about some rules should be broken.
[Ed] There are a number of people out in the world who find things like, and here are some [Ed] naughty ones, masturbation, casual sex, pre-marital sex, as being extremely taboo. [Unknown] Mm-hmm. [Unknown] Mm-hmm. [Phoebe] Yeah. [Phoebe] Still today. [Ed] Mm-hmm. [Ed] For a lot of other people, not that big a deal.
[Ed] And I get it, if that's the way you want to believe, and that's what you stand by, then [Ed] absolutely, please do, because we're not telling you what you should or shouldn't [Unknown] do. [Unknown] No. [Ed] And as an adult, I'm allowed to choose to do what I want to do as long as it's legal, [Unknown] and it's not hurting anybody. [Ed] So those are rules that we choose to break.
[Unknown] We choose to masturbate and have sex out of wedlock and have sex with other people, and [Ed] that's okay for us. [Ed] It doesn't have to be okay for you. [Ed] That's absolutely okay. [Unknown] Here's another one. [Phoebe] This one's your favorite. [Phoebe] Oh. [Phoebe] Oh, you know, sex is naughty. [Phoebe] Apparently, I'm a very naughty girl then. [Unknown] Right. [Ed] There are a number of people who think that that is just not okay.
[Unknown] And honestly, if that's what you're into, that's okay to break that rule. [Ed] That rule, the rule that you're not supposed to be able to do that. [Ed] Now, if someone doesn't want to do that, then that's okay for them to have that rule [Ed] too, and you shouldn't break that rule. [Unknown] Right. [Ed] This is a good one.
[Ed] I want to speak to this one, because there's a segment of the population that believes [Ed] that a woman using a marital aid, for those who don't know, a dildo or a vibrator or any [Ed] kind of sex toy, actually diminishes their masculinity. [Unknown] No. [Ed] I personally don't feel that way, and I'm happy whatever makes her make those great noises [Ed] that she makes, I'm all for it.
[Ed] So whether it's a little mechanical device run on rechargeable batteries or alkaline, I don't [Ed] care, because it makes her happy, and that makes me happy. [Phoebe] So... [Phoebe] And I get to put on a show, or you get to see a show, and I get to have fun in a different [Ed] way. [Ed] What's not to like about that? [Unknown] Why? [Ed] We are breaking that rule, absolutely all the time.
[Ed] I'm happy to break the macho man rule, because I seem to be enjoying it quite a bit, and [Ed] she's not complaining about it either. [Phoebe] And variety is the spice. [Ed] And here's the thing. [Ed] If it helps her to achieve orgasm for those men who haven't realized it yet, women don't [Ed] always orgasm with PIV sex or penis in vagina sex, sometimes it requires a little bit of [Ed] outside stimulation, fingers, toys, you name it. [Phoebe] And that's okay. [Phoebe] Additional partners.
[Unknown] Additional partners, three additional partners, whatever. [Ed] Anything that helps someone achieve what their goal is for sex, and it's not once again [Ed] hurting anyone or illegal, although sex toys, ironically, are illegal in some places, [Ed] and they're trying to bring that e-legality back. [Ed] So if you live in a state where they're trying to do that, and you are against that either [Ed] at move or vote them out, because you know what? [Ed] This is okay to do.
[Ed] There's nothing wrong with having a vibrator in your nightstand and using it. [Ed] This is a fun one. [Unknown] We like this one. [Ed] Sex and front of others. [Phoebe] It's fun. [Phoebe] A lot of fun. [Ed] It's a lot of fun. [Ed] And a lot of people would be very offended by that, you know, that's supposed to happen [Ed] in your bedroom, in the privacy of your own home, with the windows drawn and the lights [Ed] off and the sheets and all of that.
[Phoebe] And the special cloth cover with a little hole. [Ed] Oh, with the hole in it, yeah. [Ed] So having sex in public, all out in the open with the lights on in crazy positions beyond [Ed] missionary, you know, it's okay. [Ed] It's a lot of fun. [Ed] And that's a great rule. [Ed] We love breaking that particular rule. [Phoebe] We are making fun of a little, I will say, people that do subscribe to that, do have sex [Phoebe] within the dark with the sheet and the hole.
[Ed] And some of that self-confidence, and we're not making fun of the people who have self-confidence [Ed] issues or anything, but it doesn't have to be a rule. [Phoebe] Now, if it's your religion, and those are the things that you need to subscribe to in [Phoebe] order to conform to that religion, one, you're probably not looking at this podcast.
[Ed] Or if you are welcome aboard and come on over to the dark side because, and two, by all [Phoebe] being subscribed to that, if that, that is, that, that is how you want to live your life. [Phoebe] You know what? [Ed] You have the right to, to do that and it may be better for you that way. [Ed] You may enjoy it more that way. [Ed] And that's okay. [Ed] If that's the way that you enjoy it, absolutely. [Ed] It's not hurting anybody.
[Ed] And what you do in the privacy of your house is absolutely okay. [Ed] We choose to break that rule though. [Unknown] So. [Phoebe] So here's the rule, but let's talk about the rules that shouldn't [Ed] be broken. [Unknown] Uh-oh. [Ed] No, let's get serious now. [Ed] And this is where some swingers get in trouble and create a bad name for themselves. [Ed] And this first one, consent. [Unknown] Absolutely. [Ed] We admit it, swingers are not the best with consent.
[Ed] Not so much in terms of violating people's consent, although that does happen. [Ed] But we're about not having good enough conversations about what consent means to that partner. [Ed] And actually having a consent conversation at the beginning. [Phoebe] Not having the best consent. [Ed] Yeah, there's a lot of assumptions that get made in the lifestyle. [Ed] And we would love to see that changed. [Ed] We're looking forward to helping to educate the community a little bit more about that.
[Ed] And you know what, consent can actually be sexy. [Ed] Having a conversation ahead of time about what you want to do with somebody and having [Unknown] them agree to it is kind of hot. [Ed] All right. [Ed] We need your help so that your community, the very one you love and have so much fun with [Ed] can also find our show. [Ed] Here's a really easy way to do that. [Ed] If you're listening on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, hit that follow button and leave us [Unknown] a rating.
[Ed] If you're watching on YouTube, subscribe and turn on notifications. [Ed] We can't emphasize enough how much this helps the swing our community. [Ed] And it truly is up to you to make that happen. [Ed] It makes a massive difference in whether new listeners can even find us. [Ed] And here's the thing. [Ed] When someone searches Swinger Podcast, the algorithm doesn't care how good our content [Ed] is or how long we've been around. [Ed] It only cares about ratings and reviews.
[Ed] We'd appreciate it and your community will really appreciate it. [Unknown] Thanks for listening. [Unknown] For example, here is a very subtle example of a non-consent that happens all the time. [Phoebe] I may be on the bed with another woman. [Phoebe] She may be giving at a blowjob and her mister decides it's okay to come up behind me [Phoebe] and touch me because all three of you know me and his misses are touching. [Unknown] She's touching you.
[Phoebe] I didn't say I wanted to be touched. [Unknown] Did he ask to touch me? [Phoebe] No. [Phoebe] Did I want to be touched? [Phoebe] No, I didn't. [Phoebe] I didn't want any touching at that point. [Phoebe] I wanted to do the touching because that's what I wanted to do at that point. [Unknown] And if he had asked me, I would have said, thank you for asking not now. [Phoebe] I'm really enjoying what I'm doing with your wife.
[Unknown] Right. [Phoebe] But I didn't at the time and I didn't and I wish I had.
[Phoebe] So over time, those little tiny breaks of consent start to build up and over time you [Phoebe] start to think, wow, I mean, I'm not having great experiences or you know what that experience [Phoebe] was okay but it was kind of shitty because of this one thing or I wish I really would [Unknown] have been able to do this and express myself this way but it got truncated because somebody [Phoebe] else kind of came in and yucked my arm because I was enjoying this thing with somebody else.
[Ed] Right. [Ed] And that's a good one of many examples of how consent gets a little iffy sometimes in [Ed] the swing lifestyle. [Ed] Now the other one and this kind of segues into this next one which is boundaries. [Ed] So there are two sets of boundaries. [Ed] There's boundaries that you have agreed to with your partner and there are boundaries [Ed] that you have with your new partners, whoever they are.
[Ed] Those rules shouldn't be broken unless you have a renegotiation in the middle of an event [Unknown] and we've had that happen where we were rules up front, decided we weren't going to do [Ed] X or Y and then in the middle of it, we both look at each other and go, I'm kind of thinking [Ed] we want to change this boundary for tonight.
[Ed] And as long as it's not a coercion and as long as everybody's in agreement and it's [Ed] not like you aren't able to consent to that because you've maybe had too much to drink [Ed] or you've consumed something that lowers your inhibitions and you probably shouldn't [Ed] be breaking those kinds of boundaries. [Ed] It's perfectly fine. [Phoebe] Give me an example of a boundary. [Ed] A boundary.
[Ed] So the no kissing rule or you've decided that no, no anal with partners or you've decided [Unknown] that no single ladies for the night, that it's all couples only, that's our boundary for [Ed] that night. [Phoebe] Yeah. [Phoebe] So would you agree that even if a boundary isn't spoken, it can be broken. [Phoebe] For example, if you're having sex with somebody and they decide to use their hand on your [Phoebe] throat and perform, what is that called? [Ed] Asphyxiation. [Phoebe] Right.
[Phoebe] Asphyxiation. [Unknown] Even though it wasn't discussed as part of consent, wouldn't you agree that that could [Phoebe] be a boundary that's broken even though it wasn't discussed because there's an assumption [Unknown] made that that's a bit more, not extreme, but of it. [Phoebe] It's outside the normal realm of play, correct, which requires more conversation.
[Ed] Yeah. [Ed] And I would actually classify that more as a breaking of consent because they didn't actually [Ed] ask for your consent to perform that particular act. [Ed] But yeah, that could have been a boundary in your mind, but unless it's communicated, [Unknown] which gets us back to the consent thing, it's better not to say, I don't do this and [Ed] I don't do that and I don't do that. [Ed] It's much easier to say, I want this, this, and this.
[Ed] Now you have a menu of play options that you can play with and anything that's not on [Ed] that menu, you got to ask for additional consent because you were not granted it. [Phoebe] You may not even know a particular kink exists until you get with that partner and they [Phoebe] think it's okay and they perform that all the time and they think they want to do it [Phoebe] on you and you're like, I didn't know what to say, no, to this because I didn't even [Phoebe] know this thing existed.
[Ed] Right. [Ed] Which is also an excellent segue to our next item, which is kink contracts should never [Unknown] be broken. [Ed] So in the kink community, there's a, sometimes a written contract written up at the very [Ed] beginning before play even starts the two parties or whoever's involved in that, that [Ed] scene agree ahead of time to minuscule details exactly what's going to go on and how it's [Ed] going to go on.
[Ed] Now, it doesn't sound very spontaneous and it doesn't sound very sexy, but you know exactly [Unknown] what you're signing up for and in the kink community, especially when you're talking about [Ed] like some pretty heavy impact play or others, like you can go beyond impact play, it's very [Ed] important to not break those things, especially when you start getting into things like consensual [Ed] non-consent, absolutely, you need an agreement up front and that is not okay to break.
[Phoebe] But I will say talking about those things up front, that is a form of turn on for a lot [Phoebe] of people. [Phoebe] Oh, yeah. [Phoebe] Because you're mentally discussing and communicating what you desire and expressing that and [Phoebe] being able to express that is exciting and I do get that. [Ed] Oh, yeah, absolutely. [Ed] Talking to a potential play partner saying, I'd love to do this to you and this and this.
[Ed] It's kind of an a verbal agreement ahead of time, not a full contract. [Ed] But if I had a woman come up to me and say, I want to do these three things to you, I'd [Unknown] have been like, okay, please do, where should I sit, lie down, whatever. [Unknown] The other one that you will never want to violate are the rules of an event. [Phoebe] Yes. [Ed] You're at a house party, they've got signs up that say, don't go in here.
[Ed] You're at a house party and they say, don't do X, Y and Z in the backyard. [Phoebe] You don't leave beer cans or cigarette butts in the neighbor's lawn or a sidewalk as [Phoebe] you leave. [Phoebe] Right. [Phoebe] It keeps the noise down in the neighborhood. [Ed] Three events will have a specific set of rules and it is imperative that we follow those [Ed] rules. [Unknown] Why?
[Ed] If you like the party and you want it to happen again, don't piss the host off because [Ed] they may go, you know what, screw these people, they can't follow rules and they broke all [Ed] my shit or something bad happened or my neighbors hate me now and guess what? [Ed] We can't have parties anymore. [Ed] I don't think you want that. [Ed] You want to be able to go back to that party, especially if you're having such a good [Ed] time that you decide that you want to break some rules.
[Ed] So don't break rules at events. [Ed] And this kind of gets us to the meat of the thing and this is where we kind of, I alluded [Ed] to this at the beginning but I want to talk about it a little bit more and that's that [Unknown] swinging has a bad rap.
[Ed] There are a number of podcasts who I'm not going to mention them, it's not going to [Ed] do it absolutely not stepping in that pile of, anyway, that are 100% convinced that swinging [Ed] is a negative thing, it is a terrible term and I don't know if it's that they have a disagreement [Ed] with the term or that they just don't want to be associated with people who maybe do [Ed] some of the things that we talked about in terms of like breaking rules and maybe not
[Ed] being the best within consent. [Ed] I feel that that's an over generalization because I would say the vast majority of people [Ed] who we know who follow that club name of Swinger and don't necessarily rely on something [Ed] like ethical monogamy as the fallback term to describe what they do, which by the way, [Ed] swinging is still ethical non monogamy.
[Unknown] If you're not being ethical about it, you're not really swinging, you're just cheating [Unknown] and that's one of the rules that we also don't break. [Ed] We didn't even get into that but if you're cheating, you're not having to agree with your [Unknown] partner, that's not swinging, that's just being a douchebag, don't be a douchebag.
[Ed] Swinging has gotten a bad rap because of some of the consent issues that we've talked [Ed] about and because there are a few individuals who do bad things and kind of make a bad name [Unknown] for us. [Ed] But that's not everybody. [Ed] As a matter of fact, that's not even the majority. [Ed] That's not even a large minority.
[Ed] It's a really small segment of at least the people that we've hung out with and we've [Ed] been doing this for 11 years, Sacramento, Colorado, Florida, cruise ships, which is an [Ed] international crowd, three of those, hedonism, which is also an international crowd and [Ed] they came from all over, Canadian swingers, oh, Costa Rica, we've been to multiple events [Ed] down in Costa Rica, with people from all over the world and honestly, I can't think of
[Ed] anybody on there, maybe a handful of people at any of the events that we've ever been [Ed] at that broke any of these rules. [Ed] It just doesn't happen that much, which is why I think that either as a whole, we need [Ed] to give the term swinger a break and stop kind of lumping even the bad, people who are [Ed] not being good swingers with the vast majority of people who are being good swingers and blacklisting [Ed] all of us, that's not fair.
[Ed] That's like saying just because somebody cheats and they were polyamorous, that polyamory's [Ed] a bad thing, that would be a stupid statement. [Ed] That wouldn't make any sense whatsoever, nor would I say that the institution of marriage [Ed] in monogamy is broken and bad and no one should do it because people cheat. [Ed] Yeah, some people cheat, that doesn't make marriage or monogamy broken, it's just maybe [Ed] not what we do, but that's a whole other thing. [Phoebe] It's on a rant.
[Ed] I'm on my rant. [Ed] That was my rant for the episode because I think swinging back gets a bad rap for bad [Ed] reasons. [Ed] I don't think that the reasons why swinging is a bad thing have anything to do with the [Ed] community. [Ed] I think it has to do with a couple individuals and their bad behavior and I don't associate [Ed] with those people. [Ed] I certainly, if I had seen that at an event, might speak up and tell them, what are you [Phoebe] doing?
[Phoebe] There's also what's also happening more recently in our community probably in the last [Phoebe] three to five years is that some of the party hosts will invite just anybody. [Phoebe] They're not, they're not swingers. [Phoebe] So single males or anyone basically who knocks on their door, they'll let in and it's [Phoebe] kind of like a tender event basically.
[Unknown] So they're not, they don't subscribe to the foundation that we all subscribe to as [Phoebe] swingers, which is just this open loving sense of community with deep respect and what [Phoebe] comes from that is is able to have good sexual experiences and play and be light and fun [Phoebe] and enjoy kinks and have forms of intimacy with one another that are outside of our normal [Phoebe] relationships are our main partner relationships, not normal, but our main partner relationships.
[Phoebe] And so it's kind of diffusing the community because those individuals are being accepted [Phoebe] in for profit, you know, they're not really swingers, they're, and they don't really know [Phoebe] the rules and the ones educating them, they just take their money and they come in. [Ed] Exactly, exactly, exactly.
[Ed] Swinging is a lot of fun if you can't tell, we have a lot of fun doing it, partly because [Ed] of the taboo nature of the lifestyle, but there are some rules that we need to be better [Ed] at following so that we can all continue to enjoy the rest of the rule breaking with [Unknown] each other. [Ed] Thanks for tuning in, we appreciate you watching our channel and listening in, if you're listening [Ed] in on the podcast, thank you, thank you very much, we appreciate you.
[Ed] Don't forget your homework, tell a friend about our podcast. [Ed] So the next time you're at an event, tell one, two, three people, tell all the couples [Ed] about Swinger University and how much fun you enjoy listening to our stories and the [Ed] great, positive message that we have about the swing lifestyle. [Ed] You can also leave us a voicemail at 916-538-0482, love to hear your stories and if you give [Ed] us permission, we'd love to have your audio in the show.
[Ed] Because that would be a lot of fun, even if it's just something dirty. [Ed] We can put that on the podcast and maybe not on YouTube, or you can reach out to us at [Ed] SwingerUniversity.com, you can email us, you can comment on all of our posts, you can [Ed] look up our vacations and our cool merch because we also have t-shirts on there too that [Ed] we've designed and yeah, we'll just stop in and say hi, just swing on through.
[Unknown] So as we say, keep learning, keep growing and keep it sexy. [Unknown] Oh, one last thing before you go. [Ed] If this episode helped you in any way, the single best thing you can do to support the [Ed] show is leaving a rating and review. [Ed] It takes 60 seconds and helps new people find us when they're searching for relationship [Ed] education and we've made it easy, visit SwingerUniversity.com, forward slash review. [Unknown] All the instructions are there.
[Unknown] Thank you for being part of this community, we'll see you again soon.