S5E19 Damian Browne: 3000mile Atlantic SOLO ROW, 257K Sahara ultra-marathon, 5 of 7 highest mountain in the world summitted...

And as always, if there's an episode, you really like send it over to your friends They'll probably like it too. Thank you so much. And let's get back to the show. Welcome back to Success Engineering. I'm your host, Michael Bauman. And I have the pleasure of having Damian Browne on. He's an extreme adventurer and extreme is putting it mildly. He's a peak performance athlete, a coach.

He hails from Galway in Ireland and did 16 years professional rugby, retired from rugby and took on some of the craziest challenges in the world. 257 kilometers, Sahara desert ultra marathon. He solo rowed the Atlantic ocean. So 5,000 kilometers across the Atlantic ocean and as summitted five of the seven highest summits in the world. Just incredible feats, both physically and mentally. And that's what I want to talk to him about. So welcome to the show here. Pleasure to have you Damian

So whichever angle, you kind of come at that game, that is a very prevalent and very very much lived. It becomes part to you and you're embodying and that's the kind of key to really make an apparent to your character. It's very important to me. I'm somebody who is respectful and respects himself, respects life, respects the opportunities. It gives respect to other people no matter who they are. And you know, rugby undoubtedly created that.

And I started to see you're very different to the Western default life that's out there. You've been exposed to a very extreme way of living. You've been extraordinarily lucky firstly, to find the sport that has given you space has given you an outlet to express yourself, as giving you space to understand yourself a bit better. Has given you a pathway crucible pot to mold certain parts of yourself, to forge yourself as a person, as a character until understand yourself better.

So, once I started to get better clarity on that it was clear to me that I want to continue, it wasn't that I wanted, sorry. It was more that I was pulled, I was drawn. I was driven to continue that path, you know, to continue living that way, to continually expose myself to the edges of my capacities, physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, if you want.

And continue to grow and continue to learn and continue to need to humble myself if you want, you know, because when you're in that space, so through your own intention to push, but also through to the current limits you have, you often fail, so you often end up in very vulnerable spaces and that's where you get great learnings and insights cause of the pain and the hurts that you get from that failure, you know, so, that's where the that philosophy shortest face, you know, it became clear to me

and I was able to verbalize it rather than just be living in it, but not really on understanding wash I was doing, you know, on a day-to-day level.

I came off my second, last year at school in Galway, a rugby was my everything, but I came off the season hardly haven't played a minute, a rugby, and I had this like hurts, you know, this deep hurt inside myself. Because deep down, I knew that I should be doing better, could be doing better. I've meant so much to play a rugby and I hadn't played. Right. So it was a pain involved in that. So I made a decision to take responsibility.

And the reason I hadn't played is cause I was totally overweight. I had a poor lifestyle. I was lazy. And I was an abdicator. You know, I didn't take any responsibility for my life, but this changed with this painful experience. I took responsibility for one thing, I said, I'm going to get fit. And all I knew was how do you get fit? You run. So you went up to the rugby club I played for, and I ran. I started to do laps one wet April night..

And I lasted two and a half laps of the rugby pitch, which has only about, I don't know, 300 meters around it. So not very long right? That's how unfit I was. But I went back the next night and the next night and the next night, and straight I ran laps around that pitch. And know, that this was not easy for me. Like this was hard. Like I was a big young So, know, in terms of like pounds I was probably about 270 pounds at that stage of 17 years old.

So, you know, you're running around, you're carrying that, you know, you're not developed physically to really carry that sort of weight. it hurts every step Right. And then of course, anytime there's some sort of physical discomfort, there's a mental discomfort, there's a mental battle going on. But I persevered every night for 30 nights. By the end, I was up to running about 30 laps or something like that with it.

Through that experience, and the consistency of it that I did 30 nights in a row. I just wired this way of thinking, you know, because the rewards were so rich from that, you know, so, so I had the experience, but I also had really rich rewards internally and externally. So two years after that, for example, I signed my first professional rugby contract. So I went from not playing for my school within two years to playing senior professional rugby.

Like, so by getting fit you know, it had massive rewards internally because I persevered through all the resistance, all the difficulty, all the chaos that type of experience brings. And externally, I had rewards within rugby. I started to feel better about myself or I start to play a better rugby consistently better. And then I started to get selected for certain representative teams.

I'm very thankful to that 17 year old for, of making that decision to take responsibility and to put in the work around that and to commit to it on persevere to hard work, because that's still my default state, you know, whenever I need to reset I get back to work and I go and I work hard for a consistent period. And focus and concentration on that hard work.

And it's a complete reset or for me, you know, It's proved to be very foundationally strong and powerful mentality and mindset for the last 25 or 26 years. Got me far in life. So yeah. I don't really understand comfort or coasting, and it's hard for me to talk about it because my whole life is about pursuing higher things, you know? Cause I know on the far side of that initial, oh, this is difficult, this is hard stop. I know there's really great rewards.

Like I've practiced getting past them so much that you know, that initial, shallow kind of reaction is is easy for me to get past.

That was things like people row across the Atlantic, the minute I discovered these things. I was like, ah, nah, I want to, that's something I have to do with my life. That's something I want to do. You know, that's something that's going to challenge me, genuinely challenge. It's going to test me. I'm going to, you know, on, from that, I'm going to get that growth.

You know, that understanding that centering that I really need like that, I want that it feels to me like a great way to live my life.

Cause I love, just love this way of life so much, I just couldn't see myself ever even venturing back in to rugby as much as it's given me, in as much as I respect it and I'm grateful for it. So, so retire and injured. Yeah. Step away from the sport completely. And took six months off, did some travel. I went to central Asia, went to did some stuff in the Alps in terms of climbing. And then right, let's try and get the body back in shape.

So I lost a ton of weight because I was just traveling and you know, yourself, the food can be a bit suspect. Try and get yourself some quality protein sources in Afghanistan. I tell ya. You want you want a challenge. And then it was just, okay, so, you know, a long way to go here, like a Marathon de Sables is April. I think it was September. I had like seven months to train for it. And the first day, of course, still the unknown of the knee, you know? So how is that going to react?

So the first day I just ran 25 meters out to the 25 meter line on them, just to see real slow. Like that was initially the first training session to get ready for 257 kilometers across this Sahara deserts. I've done a lot of learning around the physical preparation over the years. And so I just started to put in place my own program for that and it was very individualized.

So much so that, you know, my preparation for doing something, you know, in terms of an ultra run, I was only running one day a week, like one day, every nine days, because just because of my profile as a ex rugby player, you know, lots of dysfunction, lower limb, upper limb. So you have to be very individualized and just take into account lots of different things to make sure. So the goal is always the day I stand on the start line is the day I am in peak physical and mental condition, right.

So it's not to just to do a program to the sake of doing it and beat the shit out of yourself and get there. Or breakdown in the middle of the program. Or get there and you're absolutely battered.. It's to be in peak physical condition of the day you hit the start line. So I'm just have to be real smart how we did that. There's no point in me going down a traditional ultra distance program. Cause I won't even last a month into it with the volume of running and it would just be nonsensical.

I just kicked the shit out of myself. I wouldn't get anything from it. I would just hate every step of the flight. Cause I've just, it would be so painful and it would just kick the crap out on my joints that are already compromised. So, so if that meant only one day running a week and that those that running session was into interval training because I run much more fluidly at a faster clip, like at a faster pace.

So, I broke it down into intervals and over time I just started to build up those intervals. So to the extent that the longest I ran in preparation without stopping for 257 ultra-marathon was two kilometers.

Like I wasn't there to win them up to this outline was there at the finish it, you know, I had to push myself through with of course, but to finish shift, you know, so if you were, you know, if you had a goal to be in the top 50 top 100, top 200, of course you wouldn't do that. But you know, it aligned to my goals and my physical stage at that time.

So I did a lot of other types of conditioning cycle ergometers and then a lot of strengths resistance training, I have to be smart in how I did that.

And then the fourth day is like a double marathon. So that day you know, you're wondering how you're going to react. I've never done a marathon. And all of a sudden here I'm faced with a double marathon.. And after running like a 120K the last three days and then you're like you're facing down the barrel of 84 kilometers and 52 miles. You know, it's going to get hot at some point. So, It is. Yeah, exactly. So there was moments there was clearly, there was tough moments throughout that stage.

It was also equally like bonding moments, like when the, when it got dark and there's one picture I'll never forget. We came over a little ridge, but it looked down into this valley and the sky is just full of trillions of stars, really bright and rich. Every runner has a glow stick on their backpack and you just see this snaking trail of glow sticks framing the deserts. Beautiful moments like that.

And I remember Lincoln, I'll put a few other Irish guys and we were singing songs through the desert and kept us going and for a few miles. And then eventually we got finished.

And And they got put on a mental list at that point, once rope is finished, you know, we started looking at thata then. So, I did retire eventually. I wrote, I made a goals, so I do goals list anyway, but I went back to them and picked out a number of things that have been spread across, you know, when your goal is five-year goals, lifetime goals. I made a new list called before I am 40. I will. And and the big thing on that list, it was seven endings to that sentence.

And the big thing on that list was a row the Atlantic solo unsupported. So, after I did, yeah, right. They don't come much bigger. Yeah.

It's all on the stationary rower. And then in terms of maritime sailing, I have literally no experience. It was total amateur hour. To the extent that there's a whole lexicon in that world. And I remember when I first ventured into it, people are talking about like holes and Jack stays and starboard and I was like what are they f**king talking about?. Like trying not to look like a fool, trying to bluff it a bit, but you're like, you're so out of your depth here.

It was case of just learning on the fly and trying to pick up things and understand things, what people were saying. And then, you know, when you felt comfortable asking a question or two, like, exposing your ignorance. Cause I don't know. It's tough. Yeah. Yeah. And eventually it took 19 months to prepare for that.

It was really like real tough preparation period, but like it's have to be because you know, my whole belief is if your body is right, like fully physically prepared, if your mind is fully mentally prepared, anything and everything can go wrong, but you can still probably achieve what you are endeavoring to achieve. If it's a technical thing, there's always somebody who can explain this to me.

Like I'm a six-year-old please, you know, and then I'll learn how I know how to fix it, but like, if something goes wrong with your body or your mind out there, there's nobody to come with to fix it. There's nobody there to help you. You know, you need to be prepared that way. So that's my whole outlook on the preparation periods. So like I put myself into situations to to build up a resilience that will serve me when the worst case scenario hits.

And it served me very well because I did get the worst case scenario on the Atlantic when I had complete system steering system failure on day 17. I'm a bit of a traditionalist, so I'd already decided to do it the most traditional way, which is the hardest way you can row an ocean, which is with no aid to your steering. So that means when I don't row the boat, the boat does whatever the weather wants to do.

You can have autopilots and auto helms where the boats getting steered, even when you're not rowing but for me, like I said, not doing it for it to be easy and I respect the tradition of it, so I did it with foot steering, which is basically on the end of one of your feet, there's a paddle that turns and that turns the rotor at the back, but that broke on day 17. So that meant that something that's already particularly hard became 10 times harder when I have to steer the boat with the oars.

But because I had put in so much time into my physical preparation, my mental preparation, I had the capacity to deal with that. What that looked like, for people who were listening was, generally the boat gets pushed to thing called beam on, which means it gets pushed sideways onto the waves. So your boat's literally sitting under the waves, right? So they're coming at you sideways over the side. Basically what's happening is you're getting pushed along the ocean sideways.

So for me to be able to bring that boat back in line with the wind and the waves, I had to put one oar in the water. Right. And use that as a kind of forward rudder fulcrum, and then row really hard with the other side. Eventually, what would happen is the boat would inch its way from sideways to the back of the boat would be aligned with the waves. And I'd be in a much safer position then. There's a big bulbous cabin on the back of these ocean rowing boats and it's very susceptible to winds.

So if that bulbous cabin moved five or six degrees to the left or to the right, the wind would just hit it on the side, and it would just push me back down and I'd have to go through the whole process again. And it was physically very difficult. And honestly, when that happens, five or six times in a row, when you put in 2-3 minutes work to get that boat back in line.

And it literally lasts seven, eight seconds there 5, 6, 7 times in a row, it's just so demoralizing, you know, I wasn't ready for that exactly. I'd prefer if that hadn't happened but because of my preparation, I was able to deal with it.

If you are pushing yourself, if there's any level of fatigue, physically, and there will be within these sessions, there's going to be a mental taxation, a mental fragility that arises, and I'm ready to deal with them. Cause that's certain processes in place it's a two-step thing. Firstly, you need to be aware, right? So self-awareness is the key to it because you need to be able to change your state.

Where that's difficult and where there's no guarantee is because if you push into those states, they're chaotic mentally. They are blind. Because of their intensity and because of our wiring through the panic response. So what cuts through that has been self-aware. So being aware that this is what's happening, this is the reality of the situation, but often that's really difficult. So it's a thing that you become faster at identifying over time.

It's never guaranteed because of the mental difficulty, and because of the cloud of the panic that comes, you know, But firstly, you need to be aware, you need to be able to understand that's happened. And then secondly, you need to be able to redirect away from that negative, weak, mental state and get back to a neutral or positive state and you do that through concentration.

And there's four things that you can concentrate on no matter what you're going through, no matter what the severity or the intensity or difficulty or hardship. If you concentrate on them, you can bring yourself back to the present moment. And when you're present you are in a neutral mental state. You cannot be stressed. You can't be anxious, can't be negative. You can just be present.

That I call those things, the four controllables and they are the body position and technique of whatever you're doing. So that changes obviously, depending on the circumstances of the physical pursuit. So if it's running. Or if it's rowing or if it's mountaineering, it's all similar, but different right? So the body position, the technique. Let's talk about rowing...

Of the rowing stroke and just being aware of what your body is doing through time and space and be able to link with the sensations of what you're feeling and concentrate on a certain specific parts of that. So when I say I'm prepared for those states of fragility, when I go into them, I'm prepared because I have a mental reset ready around body position and technique. I'll say to myself, what's lower back doing?

Or I'll say it to myself, "Can I push a bit harder with my left foot?" Or I'll say to myself what's your grip doing? Or I'll say lengthen through my limbs. Or I'll say to myself, am I braced? I'll have something before I start to act gateway. It will be a cue, question, that will act as a link to one of the controllables. So this case body position, the technique. So the second one is breath. Breath is always in your control.

And when you concentrate on it, you bring yourself back to the present moment. A breath is also linked to the parasympathetic nervous system. So it has calming effect when you're in those chaotic states. So it works really well, during interval sessions during the rest period. Because once you've finished a piece of an interval where you've really pushed hard, those first 20 to 30 seconds, they're madness, mentally.

Firstly, you understand that's common, the secondly, link on to the concentration of some some component of your respiratory system your respiratory function. That again, just that concentrate issue brings you back. Resets brings you back to the present. Third one is effort, and fourth is self-talk. So efforts is always within your control. So if we're talking about mountaineering, can I put an ounce more effort through my right foot?.

If we're talking about rowing, can I power away from the screen or power away from the bulkhead if it was on the boat? So they're all neutralizers the first three of the controllables, our body position, technique, breath and efforts. When you concentrate on a specific part of either of those, they bring you back to a neutral mental state.

Self-talk has the capacity to bring you to a positive mental state because you can link positive imagery with the mantra or the reset or whatever you want to call it that you use. So, some of the things I would have used crossing the Atlantic, would have been mantra like, "I am unbreakable! I am unstoppable!" Or one that worked really well for me, it was "Nothing will stop me rowing this ocean!" And then I had certain imagery around that, like somebody seeing me.

from a third person, point of view, from afar. And almost feeling the emotion of that person. Like there, somebody seeing this tiny boat trying to cross the ocean. There's one guy on board trying to achieve something extraordinary. Through that emotion I would feel, almost through the other personalities that would bring the energy, right. That would reset me in a certain way, in a positive way. So those are what I call the four controllables..

And that's part as a body first philosophy that I have around training my mental capacities. And then the other two components that make up the rest of that. If that's 75%. The last 25% are visualization and affirmations. There's an element of visualization as I just touched on with the four controllables and the body first philosophy.

But it can also be done away from training, where you start to visualize certain scenarios, good and bad, positive and negatives and how you're going to deal with them on the ocean, you know, what's going to come up. And then yeah, like affirmations that are just a way to rewire your subconscious. We need to be careful with affirmations though, because what I've read and noticed is if you have an underdeveloped self-esteem your mind just calls bullshit on an affirmation.

But generally affirmations are like mantras that we say to ourselves that we repeat to ourselves. So they're like sets and reps for the mind. I use them in the last period. So this period I'm going through right now. It's something we might talk about praying for another ocean row a number of weeks.

Yeah. I just use a lot of affirmation just to steal my mind in the medium term, so it's not really doing much for me in the moment, but I know it's having an effect on my subconscious just through experience. When I find myself in certain states that is like a foundational block I'm able to build off positively because I've wired in a certain way of thinking by repeating the affirmation, Again there's more detail to all of these things, but an affirmation needs three elements to be to be useful.

The concise choice of positive words. So that's your mantra, that's the thing you're saying to yourself. A clear visualization to go with that and then it needs a corresponding feeling. Personally, that's the bit I struggled with sometimes connecting with the emotion you're trying to feel from that affirmation. And on when I get all of those three elements clear and connected find them really useful and powerful. So that's in a nutshell, that's how I prepare mentally for these things.

And I woke up when I got catapulted into the other side of the boat head first split my head open and the boat is rolling 360 degrees, it's self righting because of the ferocity of the wave that's turned it over. I'm doing the tumble cycle in a washing machine. The way I often try and explain this is like, imagine somebody waking you up with a hammer to the face. Like that's would it be like. You've come in from this subconscious stage or unconscious there nearly.

And then all the sudden there's pain and there's disorientation and confusion. Like, so that's now I'm upside down and a feel of water on my feet. So there's a bit of panic, what is happening. Right. So, anyway, the boat self rights and I realized that you know, that warm, sticky sensation is blood. And I saw I think that the realization came a bit quicker because it would be used to a certain extent from rugby and then. So first thing first. Okay. Yeah. You've capsized. That must be it. Right?

So you get that realization and then you're like, that's bleeding. I put my sleeping bag to my face and just try to stop the bleeding. Thankfully I was able to do that cause it was not too deep. And then it was just about all right, what's happened, what's going on? Shit. Is the seat's still there? Are the oars still there? So out onto the deck, I open up the hatch to go onto the open rowing deck.

So the cabin is only like about two meters big, and then you have another two meters where the open rowing deck is and all I see is water. So everything is covered in water. So, again, there's a panic right? So I turned on the pump, the bilge pump to start pumping things off and I get a bucket and I go out and it goes pretty quickly and then I realized that everything that should be there and that needs to be there is still there. I tied it down well enough the night before.

Because I lost an oar five nights in a storm. So I was very happy not to lose it. I've a limited number of oars. And if you're down to one, it's not good news. So glad to still see I had three. And then, yeah, I'd sit in there and I got to get to the visualization prior to this, but just sent me another day anyway. I hear a noise. When you're in these scenarios, you're hyper aware, you're hypervigilant, right? So anything different you're on it, in a split second.

So I look up to my right where I heard the noise come from and I saw this dorsal fin swimming toward the boat in the storm. And it turns out it was an adolescent Minke whale. And it circled the boat four or five times. And on its last rotation of the boat it literally stuck it's head above the water and made eye contact with me. So it was unbelievable. It was absolutely incredible. It was the most unbelievable experience. I was like, nobody's believe this. This is insane.

I've just split my head, open up and capsized. And now there's an whale looking at me in the eye. So. If this day can't get any more insane, right? Six hours later, I battling beam onto these waves because this is the start of the steering system problems. Day 14. And I can't get the boat to be in aligned or to align with the constantly beam on these monstrous waves. So I'm going up these waves sideways, right?

So you think about these 6, 7, 8 meter face waves and the boats going up them sideways and what's happening is at the top the wind is so strong in the storm it's breaking them like surf, right? So that's the area if I'm unlucky enough to get caught sideways on underneath that surf, I'm getting turned over. So I'm stressed, right? I'm just trying to get the boat to move and do what I want it to do. Won't move.

So I'm down looking at the foot steering underneath the foot plate trying to figure out why it's not doing what I want it to do. And it's in a real awkward position. So I'm in an awkward kind of crouch. So I come out of the crouch cause it's uncomfortable and I'm not getting anywhere just as I've come out of the crouch, out of the right-hand corner of my eye I catch, this flash of blue and white. I just knew I'm going over. That's a wave, right.

So I reached behind me and there was a handle on the bulkhead, which is the face of the cabin handle on the bulkhead. And I just instinctively grabbed it. There was no conscious thought. Just instincts. I don't know why I did it, but I did it. And the boat went over. The wave broke. And I went into the water hanging on with one hand and I went 180 degrees underneath the water saying one thing to myself, "Squeeze your grip."

When I go into these endeavors, first question I asked myself is what can stop me achieving what I want to achieve? And the clear thing that could stop me rowing the Atlantic was separation from the boat. So if I get separate from the boat that's it. Your brown bread. It's over. Right. Without question you're always linked to the boat through a line. So I wear a climbing harness or a life jacket, and I clip that into the boat. That was in place anyway.

But at the same time, you can only control what you can control it. Right. So I was like what's your backup if that fails, cause it could fail. Right. You just never know and I'm not taking the chances when I'm out there. So I visualize over and over again the boat capsizing and what would I do? So I used to think well, how is it going to capsize? What did that visualization look like? So I'd be rowing along. This is how I saw it in my preparation and my visualization program. I'd be rowing.

I'd see the wave coming. I'd drop the oars and there's two lines, either side to me called Jack stays. And I grabbed those two things. And as long as I have one point of contact with the boat, I'm not losing, I'm not been separated from the boat. So the visualization went down as far as much into the detail of it, of me just thinking about that one thing, you know, well how do you guarantee at least to the best of your ability that you are going to be able to keep that grip.

Well, I just kept thinking that squeezing my grip, and I kept thinking almost about the connection between my mind and the path and the power going into my grip. And then I'd obviously practice squeezing my grip alongside it. And then okay. The visualization, that's not what happened exactly. But the same time when I did go into the water, my mind just switched to that one thing. And it was like, I was able to concentrate solely and focus solely on squeezing my grip.

And that's what I did, even though I should have been in a state of panic. I was able to just dial in that concentration and think about it, even though it was underwater and the boat was going 180 degrees, I was just hanging on one hand. I was just remember thinking to squeeze your grip. And I, again, I could make that connection between my thought and almost running down my neck, into my arm and down into my grip.

Eventually, after a number of seconds, the boat self-righted and catapulted me back onto the deck. Even to this day, but definitely at that moment, I remember thinking, wow, I can't believe that works because there's no. There's no, like nobody can tell you, right. There's no, you can't just do a Google search, like a capsizing on the ocean. What do I do? Like,

So you're constantly looking over your back, over your shoulders to see if it's getting any closer. And it's not what it is, But visually it's not. Yeah. So there's a bit of frustration to deal with there. But the big thing for me in that period was. We had a really bad weather for about three days before that. And I ended up losing both my satellite phones to water. So they were fried. So I had no way of contacting the duty officers who kind of deal with all that type of thing.

So in this case the finish and the recovery of the boat And there's a bit to it. It's not a case of there's the island I just row in, you know. You come from the Northeast and you have to get around to the south of the island. So, we'd sat through a meeting on this like 70 days earlier back at the start, but I remember sitting there going to expect us to actually remember. We've like some of us I could, I learned, I remember the last two days running up to the the start of the ocean row.

I couldn't even, I could hardly order my dinner. I was so, so apprehensive about the unknown like, what am I going out into, you know, like what is going to happen? Nevermind concentrate on something that they're telling me is going to happen on the far end of this this like 70 days later or whatever it ended up being. So I didn't remember anything about that meeting. Then they'd given us a laminated step by step, which I, unfortunately, I don't know where I put it, but I lost it.

So I was a bit blind. And then I had another system for contacted people, which I was able to do for a little while, which is called the began, which is a broadband satellite opening. So I was able to actually link my phone onto this and make phone calls. I had lost all charging, so I brought five charging cables from my phone. But they'd all fried, so everything breaks out in the ocean. Right. So I was literally, one of them somehow had hung on for like 40 days.

It was all, you know, it was all like the white, it was an iPhone cable, it was all tethered or was all tore and away at the end that I taught, like that'll break in a couple of days and somehow it lasted another 30 days. But on the final date, it packed. Day 62 finally lost it. So I was on 14% charge on my phone that I was making these phone calls. And like they're telling me all the, again, explain to me like, I'm a, five-year-old how I get to a call, a place called Nelson's dockyard.

And I know I then to kinda add fuel to that fire of what do I do? My GPS was showing, so the way a point I was told input by my weather router was on land. So I was like, I've not people in fairness, the duty officer said, you need to row to that point. And I was like, it's on land, man. He goes, just row through that. And I'm thinking like, I've not come 3000 miles to put my boat on rocks. So I'm not ruining this right at the end. Like I'm not taking any chances.

Somebody, my whole thinking was I'll just stay out a bit here. And I knew, I, one thing I remembered was that ABSAR so Antigua and Barbuda search and rescue apps are come out in a kind of rib and they guide you in. So I was like, I'm just going to stay away from those cliff faces and those white tops that are smashing on them. Cause I'm not putting my boat on the rocks. Right. And they'll see me and they'll come, and they'll guide me in. And so I stayed way out, like way too far.

And apparently they were looking for me for ages. They eventually found me and they came out. They were like the guy shouting at me, the pilot of the rib "You have to row due north!" It's really windy on, you know, "You need to row due north NOW!" And I could tell by his tone, I was like I'm in trouble here. So I just put the boat to north and rowed hard 20 minutes flat out hard as I could with that. And eventually he said, okay, you're good now.

Cause he said, there's currents right between the islands. And he said, if I hadn't rode for another five or 10 minutes, he said that current would've grabbed me and just pushed me past the islands, like between Antiga and Guadalupe. So anyway eventually got to a point where he's like, okay, you're safe. And I just rowed past the finished ever couple of boys for finished lines.

And yeah, that was that 63 days, six hours, 25 minutes of on your own time while you have this monster of an ocean trying to kick the shit out of yah.

I just wanted to be left alone for a second, but like, there's a bit of an act as well to be played. Somebody handed me flares and they're like, do you want to get your flares? I don't want to get my flares. I don't feel like getting my flares. And they gave me two flares and they're like going to these people from the race. And I was like, okay, I get it. In fairness, once I did let out a bit of that emotion it just poured out of me.

And I was like, ah, like, you know, I was properly celebrate, like, you know, some of it was probably an active, but some of it came from a deep place that I did not have access to before that you know? And then yeah. And then that felt very good. It was almost like that was part of the relief, like doing it right and all the pressure I put on myself to do it.

Accept that there's really good parts and there's parts that aren't so good. Like there's a dark side to us all. And to be a whole person I think we got to explore that dark side and understand it better and accepted when it's applicable or if not, you know, do something about it, change it if you want, you know.

Once you have that clear vision of the reality of who you are that's clear, valuable information that you can do something about if you feel that's something that is needed and wanted by yourself. So that's what these moments, at their best give me and that's why I searched them out. When you feel that, and when you get all that connectedness between, you know, the acceptance of it, and the understanding around it, and the awareness around who you are at on a much deeper level, it's beautiful.

You just want more of it and it's very hard to get. I'm not sure my pathway to uncover it is the easiest, but it works very well for me and what I want to do with my life., Like I said, it's an empowering, beautiful thing to come from these experiences. It just gives you a better understanding, not just of yourself, but of life generally, you know, and it gives you the tools to navigate it better.

So that made it more difficult of course. And then just to the real hard part of these teams is the funding piece. An ocean row costs, roughly 120-130K on a shoe string to make it happen. So trying to bring that, together during a global pandemic was challenging to say the least. But we eventually got there and the boats. Yeah, everything's ready to go. So we're ready to go.

And the inspiration behind this was you know, I see it real as a an opportunity to a lot of things I've done have been far away from my home country. So it's like a legacy piece for me. I'm going to actually get to do something extraordinary, extraordinarily challenging, extraordinarily difficult, but extraordinarily rich on the far side of it in terms of not just personally, but also for, you know, on the community.

Hopefully at least for the community I grew up in and on the streets I grew up in. We're both from Galway. So, we really hoped that, you know, in one light us rowing into our hometown after the battle of a lifetime, which we'll hopefully have shared with people through the power of social media and the technology. We can actually do that now. Here at our battles across the Atlantic.

And you know, people can connect with that and, you know, hopefully like the next generation of Galway regions or an Irish group that on anyone, anyone watching can take something from two people, you know, striving for more from themselves and persevering through the fight that we all go through to, you know, to aim high within in their own lives as well.

And, you know, in whatever way life pulls them, you know, and whatever avenue life, they find themselves in to aim high and to work hard and persevere through to crap and the resistance that's common internally and externally and leave lead a fulfilling life that way. So if we can give them a clear kind of image of that, I think it's real powerful thing to be able to do. So that's why I see it as a bit of a legacy piece for myself.

Yeah. It'll be like, it'll be a day or two behind basically what, but I'd be filling people in on a daily almost dispatched from the ocean in terms of a podcast that's called Deep Roots. So if people want to listen to that, you know, it'd be shared and all the good and all of the bad and trying to do it as authentically as I can. So, yeah, people can people can get a good insight there to what it's like through the ferocious north Atlantic.