From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A production of iHeartRadio.
Hello, welcome back to the show.
My name is Matt, my name is Nolan.
They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer, fall mission controlled decand most importantly, you are here. And that makes this the stuff they don't want you to know. Recently, bit of backstage stuff, guys, we had a conversation about a particularly troubling story around Oregon transplants, which we'll get to in a moment. Fellow conspiracy realist, this inspired us to return to a continuing series of explorations and conspiracies that began in the ancient past and
appear to escalate in the modern day. This is our twenty twenty three update. Who wants to Live Forever? Here are the facts you and I gonna live?
Maybe? Maybe? Should? We want to be clear?
Oh? I really want to know how the garden grows. I'm kidding. I am obsessed with people growing plants. I want to know all about it.
How they don't kill them, because that I have a black thumb as it were. But yeah, we've we've definitely talked about this subject. Currently. There are three to four different kinds of I guess, quote unquote it seems like a bit of a hyperbolic term, but immortality, and they are not all created equal. In fact, a lot of them are kind of a monkey's pot type scenario. They're not particularly great. No, we're gonna do it. We'll do it.
Let's do a quick recap, right and at the end of each we will give you the human version of it. But you're right, Noel, these different genres of practicable immortality, they're not super great. They're sort of like, you know, a Geo Metro is a car, but is it your favorite car?
No?
No, But let's talk about the jellyfish that we mentioned back in the day, because this I remember this blowing my mind when we learned this, that there's a type of jellyfish that can, upon going through some kind of traumatic event, basically morph itself or back into the early stages of life and then restart. Is that real?
The Humboldt Urretopsis dorny, Yeah, it's the adult version of this would be about as wide as an adult human pinky noil. All right, so Shaquille O'Neill, this thing is not It was first discovered in eighteen eighty three or you know, we need hard air quotes around discovered. Some European scientists found it in the Mediterranean, and then they ignored it. Humans ignored this guy for around about a century give or take, until in the nineteen nineties they noticed something bizarre.
Yeah, I'm picturing this scenario. I guess it reminds me of the way maybe like seahorses give birth. These fellas produced usually typically the old fashioned way in terms of the way old fashioned jellyfish reproduced using free floating sperm and eggs that meat not inside the body but in the ocean, you know, more like tadpole, you know, kind
of scenario. And they tend to also die in regular ways, like you know, they're yummy little delicacies to sea predators, environmental hazards of course, you know, it's hard out there for a jellyfish. Not gonna lie.
Yeah, they're not apex predators. No, But Matt, as you were saying, the humble tourtopsis does have a superpower.
So if it goes through a hard time, that doesn't fully kill the organism. It has this crazy ability to transform it cells like put him put put its own cells in a time machine, go back into its earlier stages, drop back down in the ocean, become what like polyps again, right, and then bud back into these jellyfish that then rise up and get to be jellyfish again.
So what what doesn't kill them literally makes them younger and strong, stronger.
What doesn't kill younger?
Yeah, it's like they get It's like imagine you're playing a video game and you get the game over sign or you know, the screen, and then you say, okay, I'll just start again. In human terms, this is like if you were in a massive car crash catastrophic, you know, all of a sudden, instead of dying, you would turn into a fetus. So the first responders would, you know, use the jaws of life and open up the car and there would be just a little baby you.
Baby, yeah, little fella.
We don't know enough about this, uh tutopsis to we as a civilization don't know enough about jellyfish in general to guess at whether these things carry over any previous knowledge or experiences on their great reset. And we also don't know how often they can trigger this reboot? You know, is it like the old superstition about cats. Do they get nine lives and then it's just your final jellyfish?
Or can they do a Rensom repeat process. If that's the case, under the right circumstances, these things can just continue ad infinitum.
At the very least, though, you'd think I'd be interested at least then maybe a topic for a different day. You would wonder if there was research being done into how this occurs and if it can be harnessed in some way.
You know, yes, how can we apply that? How Like technology is the measured application of natural processes, right, so how can we better emulate the jellyfish? This particular jellyfish. It's the only one. Just so you know, folks, next time you see a jellyfish, that thing's gonna die. You know, it's not as cool we're talking about winning the lottery. And back in two thousand and eight, these tiny little
pinky nail size to atopsies. They swarmed the world's oceans, and a couple of scientists looked into this, and they found that no matter where they picked up a specimen of this jellyfish, it would bear an identical genetic code. It's not just an immortal jellyfish, it's a clone army replicating.
That is wild. That should be fodder for a great story.
I'm on board. I want to eat one, you know what I mean? Jellyfish? Like, let's just see what they you know, what do they taste like?
All right, all right, Darwin?
Right, but the jellyfish isn't the only creature we've looked at that has some kind of crazy regenerative slash immortal superpower.
Right right, let's do made for TV. Let's sell our life extension technology.
Right.
So okay, if it sounds inconvenient for you to turn into a baby instead of dying, why not just get a wolverine superpower? Why not study the works of the amazing and my opinion, disgusting Plenarian.
Yeah, in twenty eleven, some smart folks over at MIT dug super deep into this particular superpower. Daniel Wagner and Irving Wang killed planarians in a number of ways. Yes, yeah, yeah, flatworms. Wasn't that the thing that was in that lady's brain? It was a nematode, But that wasn't far off. I think there was a yeah, well they're okay, sorry, round hole.
There are a lot of worms, is the main thing.
It's true, And if you're really creeped out by worms, don't watch the new Goosebumps reboot on Disney Plus. So Daniel Wagner and Irving wang Uh basically did a you know, plenarian genocide, and it became particularly interesting to them to study radiation as a means of execution because high doeses of radiation kill the animal's ability to regenerate, which makes sense. But then they conducted a transplant, putting one cell from a donor worm the tail of the irradiated terminal worms,
the worm that was on its way out. National Geographic has a very telling description of the results.
Yeah here he goes quote. As the planarian dies from the head backwards, the transplanted cells spread from the tail upwards. At its worst, the animal is a stunted mass with no discernible head. But two weeks after the transplant, it has completely regenerated. A new plenarian has risen phoenix like from the ashes. Its entire body is now genetically identical to the single transplanted cell.
Hey, beautiful, beautiful, also okay, terrified, amazing x files in the human example. In the anthrocentric example, let's go back to that idea of the car crash.
It sucked.
You shouldn't driven that geometro. You have lost both your legs, maybe half your body. It's a coin toss at that point. If you have the plenarian superpower over which part of you regenerates. For a reason scientists don't fully understand, it's weirder. The plenarian, upon regeneration, upon donation of cells, upon dividing,
it carries the memories of its previous existence. So, by that logic, if humans could emulate this, you would regenerate after a car crash, but two of you would regenerate, and each instance of you would have some vague recollection of the days or decades before that car crash.
It reminds me of one of the Thirteen Days of Halloween stories in this season blood little transplantation that occurs.
So we're so gassed right now, fellow conspiracy realist of Thirteen Days of Halloween. Big props to Matt Frederick. Big props to Ari Menke and Alex Williams. Also, Nola, I'm hearing some pretty pretty cool stuff about an episode you're working on.
I'm doing some bleeps and bloops for a very cool episode written by our buddy Joe McCormick, who's also been on the show talking about Oh gosh, the by cameral mind, The by cameral mind exactly.
Another instance of two things existing as one. Yes, So that's that's still inconvenient, right, That's not quite immortality. That's more franchising really.
It is crazy though, that you could take cells from another individual creature, one cell, attach it to a thing that is dead and or you know, dying and about to be dead, and then it can become that dead thing like that's and the as you said, the dead thing retained stuff. I don't know, man, that's too much for me.
Well, Matt, it is also October, we hurd a headlong towards the most wonderful time of the year, so what better time to talk about these creepy things. We also want to point out the third version of immortality, which does exist. It's quite cruel. It's the story of Henrietta Lax, particularly her cancer cells. She is technically the first human immortal. She was a US resident African American, died at thirty one with a evil, aggressive form of cervical cancer. She
passed away. She is dead and has been dead for a long time. After her death, without her knowledge nor her consent, doctors at John Hopkins took samples of the cancer that ended her life, and they used them to form an immortal human cancer cell lide, which continues today. It's now known as HeLa. It's been used for countless medical innovations and discoveries, just like the guy who invented
the three point seat belt, Neil's bullet. No relation. It's sort of difficult to it's difficult to understand how many lives this immortal saved. But the hel Us.
Yeah, well, in this year, the family, the descendants of that line of Henrietta Lacks, they finally settled with Thermo Fisher for a pretty hefty sum, which is at least some kind of justice in that I don't know, tail.
Yeah, because they worked tirelessly for decades in a real David versus Goliath's story to get recognition for you know, what some people spiritually would view as an atrocity and one that continues. The Henrietta Lacks Sahela sels they have no memory of their origin or their previous life. You can't quite you know, you can't wire them up to
a computer and have a chat. Right, And that's where we get to the fourth version of immortality, which is like immortality asterisk the newest kid on the block, living forever as a digital emulation. This is on the way. The first versions are not going.
To be good.
They're going to leverage large language models, you know, and some early form of generalized AI, and they're going to pull all the data they can about a person while they were alive. All your text, even the ones you wish you didn't send, all your recorded conversations, social media posts, biographical info. Uh Gary Oldman meme everything?
Right? What is that from? I can remember?
I think he's saying everyone though, right, Okay.
I guess what I think of a fun Gary Oldman voices. I have crossed oceans of time to find you.
The creatures of the night, well, the mesdemic. So this idea is you could get if you get enough information from a person, if you get enough instances of their living reaction to external stimuli, then you can The idea is you can emulate this person. You can model what they would have said or what they would have done in reaction to new stimuli. This is a deep water. It poses a wide range of questions and problems, and
we'll examine those later this evening. What you need to know there's a lot happening in this field, and it's gonna take a long time for the living meat headworld to catch up.
Yeah, just a concept of all your recorded conversations. When you think about what the government might be recording at all times when you use your phone, that's a little creepy because if they wanted to, maybe they could have all the data with all your recorded convos.
I mean, it's a natural extension of deep fake. Right, that's what's happening. It's the future is now. And believe it is.
That organic deep fake.
Yeah, yeah, boy Oka, believe it or not. Most of this these three to four honestly, as you said, in old kind of stinky versions of immortality, they're old beans. Scientists are researching the implications of these various genres of avoiding death, and billionaires and multi millionaires are pouring their fortune into the one thing they can yet not buy, a life that never ends. I mean, you get it, classic human You'll have to look far. It's a fool's errand for most of the history.
It's also like the mcguffin of so many like villain arcs in you know, adventure, historical fiction, science fiction. You know, there's always some evil gazillionaire that like he has it all or they have it all except for the secret of eternal life, and that usually drives them mad because it is usually presented as being unattainable and or monkey's paw level, like you don't even know what to do with it. Once you get.
It, it's yours, Indy, yours and mine. But then they cross the seal, right, and in Indiana Jones, well spoilers, the Holy Grail doesn't work out for them, and you know, you.
Make sure some great practical effects though it is great.
Right the pinach needles before caught. So in the past, obviously a lot of people tried and failed to stave off death. And you could look at the pursuit of immortality as this sort of vanity project, right, look at the Pyramids, look at the taj Mahal, the octatramph and so on. But now the reason we're doing this update this evening turns out that research may be paying off and further forces may conspire to keep that knowledge from the masses. We'll see whether or not they can do it.
But as you are listening this evening, as strange as it sounds, the first immortal may be alive today, and we're.
Gonna track that joker down right after these messages.
No, I'm just shook.
We'll be right back though.
Here's where it gets crazy. That's correct, fellow conspiracy realist. The first immortal human being may have already been born, or at least someone who breaks the conventional scientific understanding right now. Science says, all things being equal, if you have all the money and you have all the genetic factors at your back, you can live to one hundred and twenty five to one hundred and fifty, at which point your your basic code will break down. But an
actual immortal maybe alive now. And when we say actual immortal, we're not talking about these the three to four crappy conditions we explored earlier. We're talking about immortality that is Holy Grail level. See our references payoff. Oh yeah, that satisfies the following three conditions.
Has a Clai isn't afraid to decapitate other immortals?
Right? Is magic skilled in exactly arch nemesis is called the Krogan, the Kragan what was that guy's name. That guy's awesome, what a great villain in Highlander the first time.
Yeah, they never worked together and the franchise took a weird turn when they went to space. But you know, there is no judgment in brainstorming the idea of being immortal in like the Paragon, the platonic ideal of it is that you will have regenerative ability, meaning that your cells will continue to divide and reproduce while also not encountering the inevitable physical genetic degradation of age.
Yeah, you will, exactly, you will hit that heyflick limit right where after forty to sixty replications yourself are like, no, we're still going.
Man. Well, if we're doing plugs. This Rolling Stones podcast that is about to wrap that I've been working on, we talk a lot about Keith Richards is insane drug abuse and you know, just absolutely the fact that he
has cheated death so many times. And there's a scene where they like hired a doctor for this tour and one of our interview guys is talking to the doctor while they're on their private plane and like, Keith Richards is like hanging from the luggage bins, and the doctor leans into this guy, Gary Stromerg and says, you see, they're like simions. That's why they That's why they they're invincible like simions, because you know, I mean, Keith Richard's
probably got his act together to a certain degree. But that guy's got to be pushing eight late eighties, you know, and he's not showing any signs of slowing down. And you know, smoked more than this humanly possible, did all the crazy drugs you can imagine, and he still seems pretty spry. So sometimes you do have to wonder, like there is a genetic lottery, and it does seem like we don't fully know what it is. Someone should study
Keith Richards's genetic markers. That'd be an interesting bit of data.
I do not know something like that is happening. Cousy Osborne sort of paved the way as well, because the question for any physician would be, how could this person, given a history of abuse survive even with all the financial uh oh yeah, access to checobs and financial agency. That's the question. So the first one is regenerative ability. The second issue is the problem of replacement. It's the old ship of thesis argument, right, which has now acquired
a new terrifying relevancy. What's the ship of thesis? For those of us playing along at home?
Comes up a lot for us, you know, it's just the idea of I think it's come up in multiple commons about AI and about technology, even like the idea of if something has every single component replaced, is it still the original thing? And you know, with technology that's maybe less relevant. But when it comes to a person where we ascribe some meaning to like the chaos of what our parts, you know that we are greater than
the sum of our parts. If every single part of a person is replaced, is it still the same person? It is a fabulous lynchpin for sci fi type conversations.
Yeah, it's a big deal because you could replace every component in a phone, right, and it's still that version of that phone.
But what was a mass manufactured in the first place?
Exactly? It doesn't work for individual biological things, at least as far as we know right now.
Hardware software argument right. And so you know, you get a new computer, you put you put your Google.
Right now.
Now, it's the same brain, different body, huh, what gives? That's the third problem. The third problem for real immortality cognitive durability. There is no use long term in making a body or hardware that is constant if the mind can't keep up the pace, because then you end up with something where it's like, oh wow, this car has great maintenance. The guy was supposed to drive it asn't been back in you know, centuries. Still responds on the chat input though, nice.
Hey, this is this is all to say, we definitely need robotic bodies, like we need to become android's asap.
Guys. Let's go.
As soon as androtically androidically possible.
Yes, I mean I just started playing Cyberpunk now that it's sort of like a whole game, and and it does it is good, by the way, if anyone has been like hesitant because of all the bad press, but it does a really good job of showing you, you know, what, what would would a world be like where you could like supercharge any part of your body or your brain
or your like optics. And it also shows how that creates a haves and have nots kind of scenario because some people can afford it, some people have to get it black market and sometimes that black market stuff does not work as advertised and it can kill you or turn you into like a psycho berserker or something. You know.
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It's like a boost car. You know, it's all in app purchases. You know what's wild? Guys, Yeah, everybody joking around, but we're not that far off from this kind of stuff. I mean, we're you know, given the opportunity and the availability, you know, folks are going to want to I mean, people in power are going to want to do stuff like that.
Guys, everybody right into our advertisers and tell them we've got to pitch. This would have been a great time for an Illumination Global and Limited ad but as as we know, they take the month of October off for conferences. So in recent years you don't have to look far to see examples of people working separately and together to solve these three big questions physical durability, replacement question, and
then cognitive durability. If you tuned into our weekly Strange News segment, you may recall fellow conspiracy realist our brief discussion about a guy I love. His name's Brian Johnson. He was big and venmo He's in his mid forties, forty five, forty six. Now he's not a billionaire. He's a man of the people. Okay, he's just a multi millionaire.
Ah yeah, And he went viral in Western News because of a particular aspect of his ongoing quest to first slough and then mitigate and then reverse his biological clock.
Apparently he has the gum inflammation level of a seventeen year old. That stood out to me, I need to floss more.
Piers Morgan said, he added the gum whatever of an eighteen year old, then a seventeen year old. And I got so confused because a notable.
Expert, Piers Morgan a notable expert on inflammation.
But he does have a charming accent. And the interview you're referencing Matt that we all watched, I thought it was a little dirty pool because he interviews this guy you know for a while and is very wow, this is awesome, tell me more. And then the guy leaves and he immediately has on this really mean older British scientist who just absolutely lamed back the guy. He said, well, he may have the gum inflammation of a seventeen year old, but he also appears to have the intellect of a
sin seen year old. But really nasty stuff. But yeah, it begs the question, though, is like, hey, this guy's not trying to sell you this, but he also sort of is, because he's creating a regimen that he's like testing on himself. It's called blueprint, I think, and that ultimately would be a thing that you could you know, pay for, I guess in terms of like the secret sauce or whatever. But at the end of the day, he seems to truly believe in this and he seems
to be very happy doing it. But it involves taking like hundreds of supplements every day, going to bed at eight o'clock.
You know.
He eats a very specific strict vegan diet reduction coloric reduction, which is a thing we know. A lot of these mixed into his regiment are good things. But like, you know, the mean British scientist was like, the amount of supplements this guy's taking ninety percent of that stuff is bunk. You don't need that. If you just eat a good diet, you're gonna get most of these, you know, these nutrients. Like I was prescribed to vitamin D supplement because I
guess I don't go outside enough. I gotta. I got an alarming message for my doctor, say, you are drastically low in vitamin D. So I take that like twice a week. But that's it. Everything else, if you're eating right, you're you're probably okay.
Yeah, this this is the issue. Here's why this guy went viral. He is not the first to attempt these things. He is not the pioneer. Right, He's made no necessarily original breakthroughs. Right, He's combining existing technology, existing perspectives in the pursuit just like the Chinese Emperor of Old to not die.
And and well he's only he's only his forties, right.
And how dare you he doesn't identify as forty anymore?
Oh, what I mean is his body is biologically it's been around the sun roughly forty five forty whatever, so so like it's really interesting, I think, to me personally to see somebody around that age range, because I'm not that far from him right in age and my revel my what do we call it?
The Yeah you're like the mid sixties, yeah.
Exactly, but I feel twenty eight. But it's like, it's really cool to see somebody that young with this much money, uh, seeming to really really try, like do everything he possibly can to to answer those riddles that we post.
Right, he claims it's all based on data. He does have some. The way he puts it is interesting. He says like he had a period where he was very unhappy, he was depressed. He says he was overweight and he just wanted to eat garbage food because it made him
feel good. But then he said he had to like fire nighttime him, or that's the way he put it, because like this version of him was like asking for all the wrong stuff, was acting totally counter to what it would take to be the best version, you know, physiologically, which you know, and you could argue that psychologically could follow after that of himself. And he just said, everything I do now is dictated by best practices around these types of intake of stuff.
Sure, they're fun.
There are a lot of people.
There are a lot of people who would honestly like to live that way. To Like, if you've ever seen if you've ever seen pilots preparing to take to take a plane into the air, then they're not vibing, they're not freestyling. They have a list of procedures, right, checkthroughs, processing, right, that's how that's it. Do you want to live your life that way? Doing your rundown every you know, cyclical twenty four hours. Here's why he got in the news.
He got in the news because of a tried generational blood swapping regimen. It's not all the blood. It's not all the blood, it's some of the blood, platelets, plasma. He's got a kid who when this one viral, is seventeen years old. He's got a dad, you know, luckily for him, luckily for anybody with surviving parents. His father is alive. His father, Richard, is seventy years old, and
Brian's son, Talmadge, is seventeen. So the way it works is that Talmadge will give his dad some plasma, some platelets, all the good stuff, and then Brian will take that digest it through you know, his plumbing, and he will in turn give some of that not quite new but new to me blood to his.
Father and pay it forward, you know.
Yeah, And two of the three report that they feel better.
See that once again, though I'm not trying to poopoo anything but like feel better. It's a very subjective kind of concept. And there's a lot of placebo effect. We know how powerful that can be when you're doing a procedure that seems so like, oh, this is a techy as hell, you know, this seems like it should definitely do something if I'm going through all this this trouble. Another thing that I think made him go viral was that he took an alarming number of scans of his bowels.
It was like, yeah, thousands, he said. He swallowed a camera the size of a baby carrot, he said, and he took an insane number of And he's backed up by like a crew of scientists who again in this Pierce Morgan interview, one of them came on after the mean British scientist, you know, poo poo the whole thing, and he's like, you're not wrong, mean British scientists. There are a lot of aspects of this that are being
a misreported. Also, our subject isn't a scientist, and he is sort of a forward facing guy talking to the media about this, and he's getting some things wrong. I thought it was pretty bold. This guy said all that stuff, and we are going to start releasing data in peer reviewed journals, and only at that point can the conversation really start to include everybody. Right.
Yeah, and this idea, which we covered in a previous episode, modern vampires longer life through younger blood. It's grizzly, but again, it's not wholly new. For decades and honestly low key. For centuries, human beings have tried to understand how plasma transfers from young instances of a life form to older instances of a life form may mitigate or reverse biological aging. The fancy name for it is perobiosis. That's what happens in Mad Mac's Fury Road, right when one of the
war boys wants to drive. He's already dying of cancer and he's like strap on this. They call him a blood bag, right, a blood boy. Yeah?
So okay, can I just say we also do see in that film that the main guy, you know, I Morton Joe, who holds all the power, is actually not youthful at all. He's like an atrophying, you know, skeleton, kind of like decaying before everyone's very eyes. But he wears this like fake suit that makes him look like he's tough. So I think even in that world, you're supposed to kind of realize that this is all bogus.
Yeah, but that's the thing, there may be some sand to it. Harvard recently conducted a study with mice, and they used a specific form of parabiosis called heterochronic parabiosis, which means they they hooked up not quite human centipede style, they hooked up in old mouse and a young mouse. They did this several times, and there's you know, no
God to stop them. They kept these circulatory systems plugged up together, running concurrently for three months, and what they found was that the old mia, by virtue of having this new addition to their circulatory system, they lived an average of six percent to nine percent longer than the old mice who did not undergo this parrobiosis and worth it.
Last nine man, that's that's the good percent. That's what you want.
Text to Henry Kissinger.
You're saying, so they essentially it's like you're doing a transfusion, except or connected to a real living creature, and then something else is connected to that. So your blood is flowing from one to the other to the other and then back around and I like a loop. That's that's oh wow, that's disturbing but fascinating.
I don't think it works for anybody who's about to write the email.
I don't.
Yeah, I don't think you can just like wire a utility belt of young mice around you and snake them into your circulatory system.
I think, yeah, the system probably has something to do with it. Like we probably could do that with people, because it's we can't our system.
We can do it well, not ethically.
I'm saying a horrible vision.
Oh dude, it's terrifying, man. But I guess what I'm getting at though, is like maybe when you shrink it down it doesn't matter. But like it seems like our the length the scope of our circulatory systems would make that more difficult and the pressure would be more of a concern, like the blood pressure. It seems like that a lot could go wrong in a human trial or something like this.
Well, it's also inconvenient. You know, I like to think of us as running and gunning, sticking and moving. We don't have time.
Sticking and poking. Yeah, we're yeah, we don't.
Have time to carry a jan sport equivalent of a human being on our back. You know, Oh, Matt's in all right, Matt.
You're thinking about it. He's thinking about it.
So we want to give credit whords to Harvard Medical School Professor of medicine, Vadam lettyshev talks in depth about how they rate success in this experiment and others like it. How do you rate parabiosis? How do you know if that old mouse really is getting its second wind? And he goes into depth about some of the variables, talks a great deal about what they call the epigenetic clock.
We're bringing this up because it's important to note there is a metric here, a metric in play in actual science, and our buddy Brian, his program never wholly rested on parabiosis. That is one part. It's like the most clickbaiting part of this strict regimen of exercise and supplements that he's been doing for a while, which you mentioned earlier, Nol. And at this point the medical community at large does
not recognize this. It does not support any procedure referred to as anti aging blood transfusion exactly.
Well, and there are other things that he does too that are not recognized, ben like the some certain infrared light treatments that he goes through, and a bunch of other things that are they sound really great, and then you can go you can find websites all over the internet that say, hey, this procedure is gonna stop this X, Y and Z and your biological makeup and all this stuff, but there's absolutely no what confirmed or agreed upon that's
the thing, actual outcome for these treatments. It's possible that there's something there that we just don't understand yet because this one research study appears to show that there's a slight increase in whatever, but.
Well it doesn't. It also have to do it the size of a trial. Like That's why this Brian Johnson stuff is a little dubious because it's just him and like you know, again the Keith Richards argument, like an individual has a lot of variables as to what make you could smoke ten packs a day and shoot up junk between your toes and then still somehow managed to live, you know, out into the ripe old age of like ninety something. So we know some individuals do have like
super Gen's case in point, Henrietta Lacks. I mean, that was a discovery, but like everyone doesn't have that, you know.
And also it's interesting they mentioned that because recently, earlier this month, as we record, in October of twenty twenty three, a twenty three year old guy named Andrew Boyd went public with the seventy five days he had spent following Brian Johnson's Blueprint diet. And at the end of the day, because you know, let's put the boffins and the nerds outside while we cool people talk about this. At the end of the day, this guy said that he had
great results. He lost thirty pounds. He sure he believed that. He's like, now, my biological age is nineteen point two.
That's the part that's like, all woo woo oh, I feel I feel different. Sure, yeah, Look, I've been doing my very best to and you know, I use an app. It's like a fitness tracker and calorie and take app. And I think I'm probably okay at my weight and age to do about twenty five hundred calories a day and I'm trying to do two thousand calories a day, and a big part of his whole regime is a caloric deficit. And anybody that even attempts to do this
is gonna see some benefit. And if you exercise every day, even only for fifteen minutes, you're gonna see some benefit from that too. I think the issue with this guy is he's just going so hard in the paint and like claiming that it's just he's found the fountain of youth. But really the stuff that's working is the basic stuff that anyone can afford or do. Yeah.
Yeah, And here's the thing. This technology is on the way. How will it scale, how will it roll out? What will the measurable benefits be?
Unknown?
But modern vamporism is going to be a thing. The stakes are simply too high. Haha, No, apologies, it's yeah. It appears that within your lifetime, folks, as you listen tonight, vampires are going to be real. And we didn't have that on the Bingo car. But you know, yolo or do yolo? Do you only live once? That takes us to the other strange field of research. Organ transplants. Ah.
I thought you're gonna say reincarnation and yay, But like the Bible is full of stories that are like pre vampire, Like Methuselah is kind of almost like a pre vampire story.
And the fact that like vampire stories have existed in culture and storytelling for so long shows that it's it's a point of fascination and that it's something that people have been thinking about for a really long time. And the idea of blood of the virgin, all of that kind of stuff, it doesn't stop. One of the videos that I think, I say, you guys, was talking about some history of this kind of thing, and like, I
think Cleopatra bathed in boiled donkey's milk. That sounds gross, but somebody you know, said that it was a good idea, and so she was like, sure, yolo, let's do it.
Well, it would have been fresh, but it's really tough to get that much donkey milk. So I think the.
Little Fellows donkey milk, Yeah you want some? Okay, Yeah, all right, let's we'll finish the show.
Let's take it a step further.
Ground up donkey teeth, oh, I mean, because you can grind him up at home. I can get you a guy, but it's going to be more expensive if they grind it for you.
Well, yeah, I've got a more pestle. I'm good. Okay, cool, cool, I've got a ninja.
You know we're keeping this all in so Oregon. Transplants are necessary, right, especially if you need one to live, but they're also tremendously controversial. Check out our earlier episodes on things like the red Market. It has been a bloody uncertain endeavor for a long long time. This may not be the case for much longer. In the near future. You, yes, you, fellow conspiracy realist, may be able to replace any number of physical components so long as you can pay that
Butcher's bill. And I don't just mean pay in terms of finance, I mean so long as you can square yourself ethically with what might be going down. It's like, you know, the official waiting list for organ transplants terrible, incredibly long. Every single year in the US alone, a minimum of seventeen people die on the list. They're not bad people, you know what I mean. They didn't do evil stuff. They probably lived a pretty healthy life. But they will die in line for that heart that kidney,
that pancreas you name it. And this lack of supply, this growing demand creates this underground organ trade network, a pay to play system. You can skip the line, just like if you pay extra at Disney World. You get a new lease on life, as long as you don't ask stupid questions, you know what I mean? Like is this a weaker heart? Never ask?
Oh jeez yeah, and you never know, like in terms of all the qualifications that it takes to even get on that list, like you can't have been a smoker, you can't have had this, this, that and the other. But maybe some of the people with all that money and pull smoked fifty kohimas a day and they still get that lung transplant, you know, or that's it's a cigar.
It's a cigar. Yeah, So this I got you. And that's a way to illustrate it.
Right.
So the issue is very real. This may be changing because quite recently some scientists over at Harvard made a stunning announcement they had transplanted a kidney from a pig into a monkey, and despite the vast genetic differences, that monkey lived for two years. After that, if you think about it in the world of folklore myth. They made a chimera. And sure that sounds a little pretentious. We
get it, we're nerds. But uh, if you think that's pretentious, just wait for the official term of this science, which is even weirder.
The name is zeno transplantation, zeno morph zeno transplantation.
Yeah, I know what sort of math rock album is that from?
Yeah? Hr Giger did their? Did their like pitch Deck? So I have a quick question though, Ben, you said two years. You know, obviously animals have a shorter lifespan in general, but I think apes have a similar lifespan to humans. So what broke down after two years? Two years seems like a minor win, but not a major win.
Oh, it's very much a major win. Okay, yeah, yeah, And the only reason it worked, yeah, it's not. It's like, you know, when the Bright Brothers flew the first mechanically powered aircraft, they didn't get to Tokyo and one go, you know what I mean. So this is like a first flight, a proof of concept. And that monkey, by the way, the only reason it lived for as long as it did is because this was not an ordinary pig.
This pig was grown specifically to be sacrificed, and a company named e Genesis leveraged the incredibly dangerous and fascinating technology Crisper. E Genesis altered this pig's genome at least sixty nine times, and again to our earlier our earlier comparison about you know, a bank of light switches and you don't know what else they're affecting in the house,
We don't know. Two years is actually really good. It's really impressive, especially when you consider that a little bit before this, two separate research institutions took brain dead humans and they put genetically modified pig kidneys into those bodies just you know, beat me here, Paul, just to around and find out right.
Yeah, well, because they just wanted to see if the kidney would take right, That was the whole point.
Oh yeah, exactly, for the love of the game.
Yeah yeah, yeah. Yeah.
So but there's there's other stuff going on too that's been highlighted a couple of places, And I just want to shout this person out because I think there's something here.
You guys.
It's doctor Doris Taylor, and she works at Regenerative Medicine Research. That's the name of it. It's in I think Houston, Texas where she's working. But they're creating lab grown human organs. So what they do Ben is they'll take a pig heart and remove all the blood all of the cells that make that a pig heart, and what you end up having is this translucently white looking thing that is a heart. Then and you will put it in a bath basically of human cells, like cultured human cells. Then
those human cells developed, they develop around the heart. They're stem cells, right, so they create they match their environment, or they're very good at that.
I'm so glad you're mentioning this.
Yes, wait that that to me is incredible because it matches up with what we're talking about here. If we can really hone this science, we could potentially just create Ben's new heart if we wanted to, with a couple of Ben's cultures, right, if we if we had a a pig heart or something that could go along with it, or Matt's new liver, like that would be amazing.
I don't know.
I think I think that's that's at least one of the stepping stones toward what we're what we're trying to get towards.
Just so, yes, for sure, but also speaking about like the story telling aspect of this and vampirism, there's also Frankenstein and Frankenstein's monster and the idea of going against God and how inevitably nothing but bad things will come of that. And I'm not saying I believe that, but I think there are those that do, and we know that unchecked this kind of stuff, especially when it's all in the service of of money, it can be very scary. It can really go into dangerous territories.
I'm glad you mentioned checks and balances. To be absolutely clear, The only real check, the only real balance on this is going to be the.
The one the doctor takes home.
Sorry, well, the pay to play system of late stage capitalism, right, and a distant second check. The only other real one is human kinds level of self regard for what it sees as ethics, ethics. If those if those two things did not exist, then you could have your pig heart your pig liver, right now, you know what I mean. But but of course, uh, there is a legacy there. There are several legacy systems in play which are kind of I don't want to say, stymying the research, but
they're making it. You know, they're making what could have been a two hour movie, a summer long TV show.
But but no, I say lagging because these legacy you know, checks and balances. As we always say, the technology always far exceeds some of these legacy you know, oversights that are in place. So and when you're a company that has the pull, you know, whether it be with lobbies or whatever it might be, there are ways around this stuff. We know that that happens.
Also, the people in power in this iteration of the of human civilization tend to be pretty old, so they are therefore incentivized, you.
Know what I mean.
Like Mitch McConnell's probably saying, hmm, once I get that new ticker, it's gonna be a whole new Mitch baby, So the uh.
Not be funny if Mitch just showed up one day was at the fonds, just like just totally like leather jacket.
It's for some reason, Yeah, humanity is not there yet. There is a world in which you could have a pig grown specifically bespoke donor for you, and all you have to do to get these custom made organs is to somehow be able to pay for it.
Ben It also reminds me of like something that I guess hasn't been reported as much about lately because maybe it's old hat, but like those rats or mice that they could grow a human ear. One like stuff like that, where it's very single use, single purpose, you know, and like these types of pigs you're talking about, you'd obviously have to you know, contribute some of your genetic material and then here's the guy that's going to grow the thing that's going to be just for you.
The primary barrier to this research is not ethics. The primary barrier is late stage capitalism. Money is a religion and it's not the root of all evil, but you know, it's unnecessarily complicating progress, is what I'm thinking. I mean, there's this idea, right that you could, all things being equal, if this research continues, one could have a new organ as like a pay to play, real and really expensive option.
You know, imagine a world in which anyone with enough financial liquidity can start treating their body like a vehicle. I'm keeping the car analogy. You know, instead of a harrowing life or death, get right with God moment when you need a new liver, it becomes something like changing your oil. Nah, I gotta go replace the break pads with my nephrologist. I need a new kidney or something.
But we also know plenty of people that can maybe afford to change the oil in their car, but then if the breaks go bad, they're like screwed. I can't afford a break job, or I can't afford a new transmission or whatever it might be. And that cyberpunk game I was talking about earlier, there's a thing in it where like there are these, you know, medical vehicles that swoop in anytime someone gets hurt, but only if they are rich enough to be in the system to be
taken care of. Like there's a scene, there's actually a really good anime cyberpunk thing where this kid and his mom get into a bad car accident and the med team comes and they scan them like nope, he doesn't have the bright plan, and they just leave them to die. You know. I mean to your point about capitalism, that is what that yields is the haves and have nots, the tiered service of it all. Yeah.
Yeah, And there's the issue here as well. None of these solutions fix the third problem, durable cognition.
That is the key.
Over time, without intervention, the human brain will inevitably degrade because it is it's just more meat, it's organic. The mind comes to dementia, Alzheimer's. All the cool hits, all the slow jazz at, everything that makes you the you is lost. And that ship of thesis might behave like a brand new body. But what's the use if there's no one at the wheel. How do we solve this third problem? We'll tell you after a word from our sponsors. Okay, side note, we promised it in the beginning, and we
know we're going long here. Our original off air conversation about organ transplants that inspired us to pursue this update. We were surprised to discover multiple cases of something spooky. It turns out there's non zero amount of people who receive organ transplants and then become certain they have additionally received a piece of the donor's personality, preferences, phobias, habits, software of the soul.
That's the playing god part. That's the part where it all goes. You know you can't, I mean, hell man, it happens with computers. You do an update and all of a sudden, some of your stuff doesn't work because it hasn't been updated to match the update for the operating system. I mean, I think it's a relatively reasonable analog. But with humans, it's like we don't really know. They don't even know someone has Alzheimer's unequivocally until they do an autopsy on the brain after that.
Right, Yeah, good point. This idea that human beings could be to some degree emulating the plenarian the flatworm. This leads us to something called cellular memory theory, the idea that quote, behaviors and emotions acquired by the recipient from the original donor are due to combinatorial memories stored in the neurons of the organ donated. Very Stephen King sounding, right, dude, So okay, this is one example. It's pretty crusive. This is what we were talking about off air. Wanted to
share it with you fellow listeners. Back in nineteen ninety six, this guy in Vidalia, Georgia, his name Sonny Graham. He gets a heart transplant, amazing saves his life. He gets this heart from a guy he's never met named Terry Cottle. Terry Cottle commits suicide when he's only thirty three years old, which for a lot of us in our twenties we get that saying only thirty three sounds like a well lived life.
It is not.
It's a very short life. He took his life with a firearm. Sonny Graham gets the heart. Sonny Graham is over the moon. Right, He's alive. He didn't expect to be, and so he does what I think we could agree is the right thing. He begins a correspondence with Coddle's family. You know, Coddle was a father, a husband, et cetera. He had his own life. So this guy, Sonny is writing to the Caddle family and in January of nineteen ninety seven, he meets the widow of the guy who
saved his life. She's a lady named Cheryl Cottle. She's twenty eight years old at the time. She lives in Charleston, and they strike up a romance.
Yeah, trauma bonding. I mean, that's perhaps okay, who am I to? Who am I to? Saying? You know, but it's interesting. Where the story goes is beyond fascinating. But it also there are other aspects of it that could make it not what the spooky thing is. But the spooky thing is it feels front center. I have to say, yeah.
He marries Caddle's widow, and then several years later, on April first, two thousand and eight, Sonny Graham takes his own life life with a firearm.
And it's my understanding that people that knew him said he never exhibited any signs of depression or mental illness.
None whatsoever. Apparently, but this sounds like a macp campfire story.
And it happened on April Fool's Day.
And it happened on a fool's day.
Wait, surely we know that this is true.
Though, I mean this is true that is when, that is when he took his own life and therefore arguably the life of or some remnant of the life of Terry Cottle. The thing is that there it sounds spooky. It's a MACP campfire story. Ha haa, we're all scared October whatever. But several studies indicate there may be some sort of let's call it, persistence of the mind within the donated organs.
But are we talking about the soul? Are we talking about remnants of the soul in a piece of meat that is then reconstituted and connected to somebody else's system like some people say my heart, I love you with all my heart. Like, I think that's irrelevant. They could just likely be in your liver. But the heart, man, that's the central clock of your entire existence. You know.
There's a journal called Quality of Life Research, and in this you can read a study where researchers interviewed forty seven different patients, each of whom received a heart transplant over a window of two years in Vienna. They found that seventy nine percent of the folks they interviewed didn't feel their personality had changed. Fifteen percent felt that they had some sort of change, and they just thought it
was because it was a milestone. They almost died, right of course, like someone with a near death experience, you're going to be different. Six percent, though, did confirm they had a drastic change in their personality, and they said, do entirely to this piece of a different person existing inside them. I mean, caveat emptor let the buyer beware. You might get more than a new hunk of meat.
You know, if some of these scientists are correct, you might be carrying, like a plenarian, a tiny bit of someone else's source code with you, which brings us to of course we're target source code, digital immortality. This is the one that's gonna happen. This is the one that's going to like, this is the one that's gonna happen and be stuff they don't want you to know until a huge watershed moment.
Yeah, there was actually a Duncan Jones film called source Code, David Bowie's son who he directed the Warcraft movie but that's not his moon he did with Sam Brockwell, and then source Code with Jake Gillenhall, and it's all about this kind of stuff. But also there's an episode of Black Mirror where a woman tragically loses her husband in
an accident. And then there's this thing where you can get this like stand in surrogate version that you have to grow in the bathtub, and then you upload all of their Facebook and social media and it becomes a passable version of the person. But of course the twist, not really the twist, but is that it's not the person, it's it's a facsimile of the person.
Yeah, yeah, a good emulation.
What is it?
Symmacularum similacrum, similacrum. Yes, yes, yes, I still have a rudimentary grasp on English at best, digital immortality. It's the idea that you can It's like music, Okay, so what is a song? Is a song the guitar upon which the song is played? Or is the song the pattern
the series of notes? You know. The idea of digital immortality hinges upon the concept of people, the you that you mean when you say you, existing as patterns, as software songs, the idea being that if we gather enough information about a single instance of an individual and funnel that into some large language, near generalized AI model, that the resulting code can respond and react to stimuli in a manner increasingly close to what the responses would have
been if that person was still alive. It's heavy stuff. It's no longer impossible. It is being happening right now, and it's really scary. It's traumatic. I imagine, like you know, everybody's lost somebody. Think about it. If you're able to speak with some emulation of your lost spouse, child, parent, close friend, and then you realize at some point in that Turing test that you are just encountering a remix
of things they said. I mean, honestly, it's like you know, I mean, would it make you feel more or less lonely is the.
More more I think. I think it's you know, I my mother passed a year or so ago, a little more, and I'm very reticent to listen to old voicemails from her. It's like it really hits you in a place. I don't know that I would want this, especially No, maybe like for somebody who isn't, as you know, embedded in this kind of stuff as we are, maybe they would, But to me, it just seems dangerous, especially if it could talk back, you know. I just you could get
addicted to that. And that's what the it's called be right back. The Black Mirror episode starring domhol Gleeson is about. It is literally what we're talking about here.
Yeah, I don't know. I can imagine a good version of it, like imagining just face timing with somebody you care about that you've lost, but getting to feel that, like, you know, just share your day with somebody that you really care about and you care about them caring about you, even if they're not there anymore. I think that could be a positive thing. But I do think you're right, it would be addicting and it wouldn't help you. It wouldn't beneficial. To you with relationships.
But what if it's ad supported. I was holding that, you know what, that's a different I love you too. I wish I could have I wish I could have told you this while I was in the hospital. Coding out has a sale right now, so I could have played Royal Match together. You know that would but play Royal Match with your deceased loved ones.
All right?
I tricked you guys a little bit. That is kind of an evil thing. It is possible because we are in the early days this field of research, this idea. What's most interesting about it is that if it goes well, then this mind would not experience the same organic degradation of a meatball mind. If it does experience a metaphysical version of a malfunction, you can just reboot it like a jellyfish. Start the soul over at the version of last Saved game. A digital answer yes to the turretopsis.
And this research has been galvanized by breakthroughs in llms, large language modeling aka street name Chat GPT, rise of deep fakes, increasingly generalized AI models. Something like this is going to happen. We are not too far out from what I would I would like I would propose we call it the emulated human.
The Eh, Well, dude, you can use chat GPT to have a conversation with William Shakespeare. What's to prevent you from using chat GPT to have a conversation with your deceased grandmother.
Especially considering how much more data there is about people who died recently.
That's true, and obviously there's way more data about William Shakespeare and people writing about him and every number of things. But if you there could be a bespoke service where you upload all this stuff to the cloud and then it gives you this like version that we're there. You're right, Ben, we're talking, We're there.
Well, well, let's talk about the emulated human. You know, I'm very into this idea. It might be my new beat later, but something that would appear to have the opinions, the imaginations, the fears, the aspirations of that person you knew. Humanity is not prepared for this. What happens when an emulated human gets close enough in terms of fidelity to genuinely passituring test and function as an undead version of that person you loved? Are they going to be able
to represent themselves in court, Can they vote? Can they make journey? You know first question Uncle Sam has? Are they going to pay taxes? You know? The other question? What would it be able to demand its own destruction?
Right? Like all of these I would I would think all of these things would be laid out in advance. It's like intellectual property at this point, it's not you know what I mean, Like there's different rules about stuff like this, but I don't think that those rules exist yet. I don't think there's any document that has a clause that would address any of this stuff.
Shack out Westworld season. There's really interesting like thoughts about this in each season, like IP and individuality and all of these things. It's really really good.
And so we know we're running along apologies mission control. We have to ask what happens when an emulated human mind decides it would like a body?
Right?
Because again, the technology is there, it just hasn't been combined into the correct applicable gestalt, you know what I mean? Like you can three D print, right, lap room meat is on the way, it's just too expensive.
Right now, you just hit command Q. You just quit. I don't want to hear this anymore. There's nothing making you have to answer their demands. They're a puppet show for you, right, Like I'm not meaning to be callous. I just mean at a certain point, it's like if all of this stuff, all things being equal, like this is a presentation for your benefit that you're paying for. It is a dance that you are enjoying slash benefiting from. We are not at this point ascribing any agency to
these representations. And that's a whole other conversation, you.
Know, right, That's what I'm saying of agency, right.
But when can they get it? Who gives them that?
The lavation innovation is Ussain Bolt legislation is a three year old learning to walk while they're carrying a backpack of bricks, You know what I mean? The race is pretty predictable. We do want to make a moment before we close to talk about other life extension products, procedures, tactics, and snake oil, because there is a panopoly of these.
Many of them are roundly dismissed as little more than the placebo effect, or at the more sinister side of the spectrum, they can be scams and cons taking advantage of people laboring under the weight of fear. I mean, things like med beds, Matt you earlier mentioned light treatments. A lot of these things do provide a benefit, or at the very least they don't actually harm people. Sure, they fall apart when they tend to make extravagant claims.
Well, even the stuff Brian Johnson's talking about just like you know, extreme adherence to these regimes and like you know, supplements and such. None of the stuff that he's talking about is bad for you. If you did it, you probably would benefit. But the idea of like ascribing some sort of like this is the new way to eternal life is in and of itself kind of a little problematic.
Well, you shared a video with us earlier today.
It's by.
Economy, Yeah, the Economy, and it's this reporter Marin Hunsberger who just kind of exploring this concept, right, and she ends up going to this place called the rad Festival that I had never heard of. It's in Las Vegas, Nevada, and it's they call it the Woodstock of Radical Life
Extension Technologies. Okay, right, So there she explores all kinds of different products and companies that are off ring services basically or again a device you could have at your own house that purport to do things that we've been talking about in this episode extending your life or the quality of your life, or letting you, you know, live a little bit longer, a little bit healthier, And I
just think it was worth us mentioning. We don't have to talk about any of them specifically, but just that, to my eyes and ears, those technologies and companies seem to be aimed directly at older consumers who are concerned with their own mortality, who happen to either be wealthy enough to drop a couple thousand dollars on something, or have enough retirement money or income right to not be worried about dropping a couple thousand dollars on something.
You think it's an accident that it was in Las Vegas. I mean, we've talked about how like casinos also target older people with like disposable incomes. And again some of the things in here, you know, results may vary, I guess, but some of them and the marketing behind them, You're absolutely right, You're absolutely right.
But in the same time, in that documentary you can learn really interesting things about stuff that we already mentioned in this episode, but research into how to extend life's good years and then shorten the amount of deterioration years. Right, And we just at least should mention this. You can
look it up on your own time. But doctor Leonard Guarante from MIT studying these things called SR two genes, which is it's this incredible way to basically stop genes from hitting that genetic kill switch or the off switch to where cells will stop regenerating and stop reproducing. It's fascinating stuff, and hopefully there's some kind of silver lining in here somewhere that says all of this isn't apocalyptic,
all of it isn't just for ultra wealthy people. We could as a species maybe get to a place that isn't immortality, but is at least improving the good stuff in decreasing the bad stuff.
And it becomes prisoner's dilemma. It really does. Like if you could guarantee that every single instance of Homo sapiens would have a very well lived quality of life up until maybe fifty years old. Everybody dies when they're fifty or something like that, then how many people of the billions out there would be willing to sacrifice what they see as they're extra twenty seven years, right in return for making the world a better place for everyone.
Well, and one thing I think was in this video, it might have been in another one. The argument in these types of discussions always comes up about like how well the world is already, like we're running out of resources, populations ballooning out of control. What would it mean if all of a sudden everybody lived forever. It would be a drain on resources, It would be a drain on a lot of things, especially if people were retired and just living forever, you know, and like had to be
taken care of in some way, shape or form. But uh, I wish I could remember, because I thought this guy made a really good point. He said, if you knew that the problems of the future were going to be your problems, wouldn't you live life a little differently?
Sure?
Right?
Would a president and a democracy be more responsible if something after the four year period of potus matter or affected them?
Yeah?
Oh, if they were going to live longer than a couple of years.
That's what I mean literally in your life, Like, if you were going to live longer and you were going to experience the results of climate change or whatever it might be, would you feel differently would you behave differently? And you know, the argument is that, well, I'm doing it for my kids, for my grandkids, but that's not the same as doing it for you. And I'm not saying that people are inherently selfish, but I do think it would. It would move the needle in an interesting way. That's all us.
Yeah, speaking of interesting, it's interesting that you talk about humanity is inherent selfishness, because if you really interrogate that as a human being, what you will find is that ultimately your selfish interest in the long term, they align with all that crazy utopian stuff. It is better for you as an individual to live in a world that is sustainable. It is better for you as an individual to live in a world where people aren't committing crime
out of necessity. The logic is solid, and it's sad that it is so difficult and put upon the consumer to eliminate the noise. I love that we're going to questions because that's where we end. Let's end on the most important point. With all the factors we talked about at play, it is now increasingly possible that someone alive today will achieve a form of immortality. Personally, I think it's going to happen. They might live to one thousand, they might have some they might be the emulated human
may live forever or until a certain get unplugged. But one thing for sure, it's not going to be perfect. It is going to up end civilization. I think this is a huge point because, as we established earlier, for years, all successful human civilizations fundamentally depend on people dying on a routine basis. The world is not ready. The research will increase, but it's the cusp of a strange renaissance, a future feedback loop. Our feed are halfway off the
chasm of this grand canyon. I mean, we have to end with those questions. How will this technology roll out? How will civilization adjust to a class of millenniarians and immortals, Especially these people who don't die still need to do the human things like eat, sleep, drink potable water. How would you solve the problem of immortality? Fellow conspiracy realist.
Honestly, don't think it's that dire or or bad. I think I think I think it's gonna be great. Actually, because I don't have that I don't know, man, I feel I kind of am aligning with the once if people actually were living longer, they would want to improve things more than they currently do. That's really where I see it, So.
Let us know your thoughts. Conspiracy Realist, We appreciate your time. As always, we endeavor to be easy to find online.
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