From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A production of iHeartRadio.
Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my name is Noela.
They call me Ben. We're joined as olders with our super producer Alexis code named Doc Holliday Jackson. Most importantly, you are here that makes this the stuff they don't want you to know. As you're listening, we are reaching the end of January in twenty twenty four, coming off a long weekend here in the United States, where every company worth being a company does acknowledge, commemorate, and celebrate Martin Luther King Day. Over the long weekend, a lot
of very bizarre things happened. A stand up comic was brought back from the dead, the FBI is true story investigating some decades worth of villainous actions by a fashion maven. And something tragic and mysterious happened in Kansas City.
Finally, well really not in the tragic part, but just something happening in Kansas City. I'm kidding. Kansas City is a great town. I would like to go.
Well, this is something mysterious that occurred in tragic. On Sunday, January seventh, several friends gathered at a home within the Coves Subdivision in the northwest suburbs of Kansas City, Missouri, to watch their home team, the Chiefs, play the Los Angeles Chargers. The game was watched by four or more people, we know that for sure, or more. That's important here and the game that they watched was played at Sofi
Stadium in Inglewood, California. The Chiefs won thirteen to twelve. Now, I'm the last person you'd ever want to ask any information about football, but from the numbers, it appears to have been a close, perhaps tense game. Could also be important.
Tell us more about football, Well I will, but.
I'm leaving little Easter eggs here that we can call back to later. Bread crumbs, bread crumbs, there you go. That's a thank you, Payne Lindsay for that. There was only one touchdown made by the Chiefs in the first quarter. The Chargers came back with several field goals and they were leading the game twelve to ten in the fourth quarter, but the winning field goal was made by the Chiefs in the fourth quarter. It's one of those come back from behind things. And by the way, they are currently
number one in the AFC West, whatever that means. Again, I don't know if.
You'd both sports common data.
It's a good thing for the fans. You'll love to see it. Also, also shout out to all our Australian listeners. Got a message recently where someone asked me a similar question, Matt. They were like, can you explain American football? And I just said, tune in for halftime. It's a commercial written enterprise.
Can I say though, that the Chargers is clearly the best name for a football team, the most descriptive name for what that sport looks like. They got that one on lock.
So yeah, goo up there with gpsy concussions.
Enough again, guys, I don't know football, but I do know true crime stories, and this is one of those. After the game, guys, friends and family attempted to contact three of the men present at that home in Kansas City. There were text messages sent calls, messages sent out over social media, and there was no response from all three of these men for three days. So remember that's January seventh,
Sunday night when they're watching that game. On Tuesday, January ninth, the fiance of one of the missing men to matters into her own hands, drove to the home. She's banging on the door, nobody is answering, so she goes around to the back, through the backyard and to the basement and she enters that. She forcefully enters the home. After looking around, she discovers the body of one of the friends dead on the back porch. Now, first of all,
that's horrifying. We don't have a lot of information. We'll get to that later, but I'm just going to continue telling you kind of what happened in order so then we can start to really pick this thing apart.
One question. So we say there's a fiance, and the fiance checks in after three days.
The fiance has been attempting to make contact. It was known that the vehicles of all three men were still parked there at this home. I'll say that. And finally, after not being able to contact anyone in that home, she decides, I'm just going to break in and see what I can find. Like, I'm that scared, basically, right. So then she immediately contacts the police at around ten pm that night on January ninth, The police arrive, they search the property, and they discover in the backyard the
bodies of the two other missing men. So three dead bodies, same house. What the heck's going on? According to police, there are no obvious signs of foul play immediately near or around the crime scene, so like right near the bodies or right around the bodies in the mediate area. They were all outside. Now this is an important part. They were outside the home. Okay, that's going to factor in.
As of today, Wednesday, January seventeenth, the causes of death for all three men has not been released to the public. According to police, they are awaiting medical examiner results. Again, as of today, as we're recording, there's no information. And I'll just say right now, I called one of the local CBS affiliates there to make sure there was no updates that haven't been published yet, no updates, nothing else is known. Now let's go back in time. Here we
go Friday, January twelfth. That is when police first announce to the public and to local news stations that they're seeking a search warrant for the home. Right, those bodies were found in the backyard of the home, but that is not inside the home. So it's not like there's probable cause I guess to go into the home and look around, right to find possible evidence of a crime.
And if there's no at least according to the police, if there's no signs of foul play, there's no reason to do that, right unless new information was revealed at some point between February ninth and the twelfth. Does that make sense?
Sure?
Sure, they're also getting a ton of pressure from the friends and family of these three missing men to look inside that house to figure out what's going on. And they also announced the names of the three men who were found dead. So let's go ahead and say these names. Clayton mcguiney. Mcguiney, I think is how you'd say that McGee n y. He was thirty six years old. He is the person who's fiance traveled to the house, broke
in and discovered the bodies. There's David Harrington who is thirty seven years old, and Ricky Johnson who is thirty eight years old, who was married and the father of three children. Now here's the part in the story, Ben, can we get an hwigc.
Here's where it gets crazy.
According to several sources close to this story, friends and family of the deceased. They are speaking out about the situation and they's some weird stuff at play. They are saying, the person who is currently renting that house, who is still alive, was home while the friends watched the game, while Clayton's fiance broke in, and while the police arrived. So there was a human being that rents that house.
It was home the whole time. They're also saying that this person was aware that those friends and family were trying to contact the men and him, and avoided all of that contact for three days, again until the police arrived.
I don't like it.
It doesn't sound good.
Right, No, no, sir.
If anything, it means this person knows exactly what happened, right, This one person, at least, if there weren't other people there, knows exactly what happened.
I mean, unless there is some sort of extenuating circumstance compromising their lucidity. Right, unless they are unless they are, like so many people in the Midwest, struggling with substance issues or have some sort of mental condition. But the I agree with you, Matt, the window of time there is quite egregious it is.
So let's jump to some writing by Chris Spargo from Inside Edition. This was published on Monday, January fifteenth, to get a little more information about what's being said in those circumstances we're talking about there, Ben, there are several friends who are posting on Facebook publicly about this, and one of those friends is Kaylee Lettier. And this is a fairly long quote, but I think this is important stuff. We have to keep in mind. This is a claim.
This is not an official statement. This is from Kaylee quote. This man was inside his home alive while my friends were dead in his yard for lord knows how long they were all hanging out, since after the game Sunday. He knew people were looking for them. He read messages of people searching for him. On Tuesday, my husband banged
on his door for twenty minutes. My friend banged on his door and then busted a window and yelled and announced her presence while she's inside, and still nothing from him. Then the cops come ten minutes later and he comes out nonchalant in his boxers with an empty wine glass in hand. Again, we don't know if we cannot confirm any of that. That is a statement from one person,
but again it does not sound good, right right. And there's one more statement that we need to get from someone named Jennifer Marquez, who was the mother of one of the deceased, David Harrington. She says that this person who was renting the home contacted some or at least told some friends and family that all three of those men went outside at some point and froze to death. Okay, well, so you know we're talking Kansas City here. It's been really cold lately, right in the beginning of this year.
So I went and checked the historical records for how cold it was that evening on the seventh, all the way to the ninth, and I would just say that I found on January seventh, there was a high of forty degrees fahrenheit and a low of thirty four degrees fahrenheit thirty four or just two degrees above freezing. And then when the police arrived on January ninth, the temperature was dropping that evening and it had reached about twenty four
degrees fahrenheit when they arrived at the house. Precipitous, so it was getting colder and colder. It wasn't snowing a lot, but there was definitely a lot of the temperatures were quite quite cold, right, so it is, but there is potential that those guys were outside and their temperature dropped, I guess, but it does. It feels highly unlikely to me that that is the reason they would have frozen to death.
Is not that the love pass exactly, No, I mean, but you know, if they were intoxicated enough and perhaps blacked out, but for all three of them to be that incapacitated, I would say something else was at play other than just alcohol. If that's the case, you know, to be that unaware of your you know, rapidly dropping body temperature.
Yeah, Again, we don't know if any substances were involved with any of the people at that home that night. The variation that could exist there could answer a lot of questions.
Well, sure, poison perhaps would be the badger in the bag, right.
Or the bad poisonous one, or you know, if everybody is on something and even the person we're talking about who lived there was passed for that, Yeah, maybe he didn't know and then he woke up and was scared. That's one possibility. Sure's an infinite number of things that could have gone down. It's now basically a waiting game until the police released more information.
No toxicology report yet, I.
Assume no, at least none that I have seen, none that case TV five has seen, and Inside Edition isn't reporting on it or any of the other local stations. Just one last thing here. They have all attempted to make contact with this person, all of the local affiliates, and nobody has successfully spoken with him yet. It's unknown if there's an attorney representing him or anything like that.
In his name has not been released by the police or by any of these publications, which because he has not been charged with any crime.
Well, I was going to ask, like, what is the crime other than being a bad friend? Like I mean, I imagine if you own property and someone dies, you know, on your property. That's what insurance is for, you know, if people needed untimely and their own faults or through perhaps tripping over something. But I mean, you know, you're allowed to pass out for three days. That's not against the law. I'm saying for the guy that's remained in that remained indoors, unless he has found to have done
something that's that that involves foul play. I don't think there's anything to get him for. It's not negligence. They already left his company. But I don't know. I'm asking, Well, that's right, that's right, he's.
Yes. So also another another person of interest, the POI here would be the land and board, right, who.
Is probably yeah, depending on where they live.
Right.
Well, it's so crazy nowadays you could have somebody who owns a bunch of property in one city and they live all the way across the country.
Shout out blackrock Yep.
Yeah, that's that's really all the information I have. Oh, according to neighbors, the person who is renting that house moved in about six months before now this time, so again has lived there for quite a while. Those friends definitely knew this person, and they all gathered together. According to all friends of family, they all were aware that this was a night to watch football and it was just a happy hanging out with friends thing.
What we know is that this is an ongoing case. As you outlined, Matt, there are new there are not identities disclosed regarding suspects. It sounds like the city is still waiting on further investigation. But we do know that regardless of how things occurred. There are three children who no longer have a father.
Yeah, the family of Ricky Johnson, one of the deceased, the man who did have children, they made a GoFundMe for his funeral services. So they're looking to raise six thousand dollars and as of us recording this, they've raised around forty one hundred dollars. So, you know, if anyone has the means to make a donation to that, then please do. I'm sure it would help out a ton. Maybe that's the best thing we can do right now, besides just keeping a lookout and just just finding answers.
I am personally interested to know what the heck happened, because it's just it's something I want to avoid. Whatever the heck happened, I don't want to do that, right, So I guess just keep your ears to the ground, let us know if you find anything, and yeah, we'll be right back with more strange news.
And we have returned with another piece of strange news. Been alluded to this in the opening, the idea of bringing people back to life, not through necromancy, minds you, not through some doc ritual. Well, I don't know. We have talked about how certain prompts for AI can be kind of compared to an incantation, because you got to know the right words to say to feed these things to make them make something that's interesting. The right prompts, you know, the right things to learn the machine on.
And today we're talking about comedy. You know, comedy the I don't know, and in many ways one of the most human of art forms. I think. I think stand up comedy in particular, at its best is sort of a combination of like story telling and you know, calling from one's own experience, and I think lived experience, to me is what makes the best stand up comedy. There's all kinds of different flavors of it, but that's the stuff that usually does it for me.
The great orators of our time.
Great orators, you know, can parlay those skills into being good writers as well, often great performer. The timing of delivering good stand up tends to translate really well to screen acting, as we know, but George Carlin is widely considered to be one of the greats in terms of
stand up comedy. There's actually an episode Ben and I did on Ridiculous History with Wayne Fetterman who teaches stand up comedy or the history of stand up comedy at a university in California, and we talk about the dirty words, George Carlin's dirty words. He does a whole bit on him. These are the words you can't say on TV or the radio. The guy's a legend, no question about it.
And he's also deceased. And one thing that comes into play when dealing with legends, you know, the public and people who are passionate about art and whatever the person represented, they've got a stake in this kind of stuff. And like we saw with the Tupac hologram, you know at Coachella Lough those many years ago, sometimes these things can rub people the wrong way, and for a good reason.
And that's what we're talking about today. A podcast that Matt, you might be able to give a little more background on it. I'm not I haven't listened to it, but it is called dude z uh and it is the inevitable integration of podcast T and AI and it's a comedy podcast where an AI called dudez essentially, I guess creates the topics for every episode or I don't know. Matt can explain a little bit more about how the AI is part of the show.
Well, I've only I've not watched entire episodes of Dudez. I have seen it on social media clips quite often, which I find to be hilarious most of the time when it's it's these two hosts sometimes just doing impressions that are so spot on it's insane. It just you know, as a talk podcast. Then other times they are reac acting to creations of this AI but that I believe is also called Dudzi. Yeah, and the stuff I've seen is just unhinged.
It's like one of them is will Sasso, who is famous from being on Matt I would you know, I would say, is it's a very good uh comedian. It's funny and also a really good impressionist, which is an easy thing to do.
So that's the Tom Hanks clips. Yes, those are I think those are the ones that attained prominence because it is clearly AI uh some arcade agglomeration, something like mid Journey, something like chat GPT with some voice ripping uh. And it's a since I already use the word ripping, it's a ripping good.
Time, you know, wizard for one.
Yeah, that's one turns into a bus. It's it works really well as a what if trailer.
Yeah, they're like teaser trailers for those new you know, a movie and they're amazing. Anyway, that's at least my knowledge coming in to this discussion.
And those are clearly meant to be completely absurd, and you know, like these movies that don't exist, that everyone knows don't exist, and you know, one could argue that their experiment with what they've done with the story it's about that's making people upset. Making a new hour of stand up from a deceased legendary comedian. One could argue that there is some comedic merit in that, and then it is sort of taking the piss out of AI
and sort of deflating it a little bit. But that requires you having a little bit of control over the spin and the way these things are perceived, and oftentimes with reporting, people are going for grabby headlines and you know stuff like you know, hack podcasters resurrect legendary comedian through AI sort of like that Beatles song where they took you know, John Lennon's vocal from a the demo tape and then sort of like enhanced it and allowed them to make a new song.
With it.
People were really upset about that before they even heard the song, and then they heard the song and we're just kind of irritated that it sucked. But it was the ais fault. This wasn't a very good song. So with this, it's an hour of new stand up. And I don't think any of us have heard it, So why don't we hear a little clip of it? Okay,
Ben sird it, Matt and I haven't heard it. Why don't we hear a little clip of it and we can all kind of react to in real time before we bring down our hammered fists of judgment or not. And by the way, it is called very pointedly George Carlin, I'm glad I'm Dead twenty twenty four full special, and you know it's labeled, you know, like a special from George Carlin, just putting that out there.
Thank you, thank you.
I like to start off with a heartfelt apology. I'm sorry it took me so long to come out with new material, but I do have a pretty good excuse. I was dead, so technically it was my fault. If you want to blame somebody, you're gonna have to blame God, which we all know is not gonna happen. People are always thanking God for the good stuff in their lives, but somehow they conveniently forget that it's the same God who does all the badge too, and he does a
lot of badge shit. You get a promotion, praise Jesus, you get fired.
God is testing me.
You meet your soulmate. God brought us together. Your soulmate dumps you. God is bringing me someone else. You survive a tornado. I'm so blessed. Twenty other people do not. God wanted them in heaven. It's all bullshit.
Okay, So looking at each of the three of us, I think there's a little bit of active cringe going on. Well, it's really kind of the point, do I do get that?
But go ahead, Matt, Well, it's just an odd it's an odd sensation to almost feel like you're hearing George Carlin write jokes that you can tell feel like written jokes. It's just they don't they don't have the I was gonna say, soul. They don't have the thing behind them.
He was also, in my opinion, and this is just one entity talking is also a great orator, philosopher, and truth teller who would have absolutely objected to this the God jokes technically structurally though it makes sense, No, they don't make sense. Yeah.
Remember there was that other AI thing that was like Seinfeld twenty four hour repeat or whatever, and it was sort of a non sequiturs. But even that was the thing about stuff like that is the Seinfeld thing. It leaned into the absurdity of it. The whole point of it was that it wasn't good. This one is just close enough to a kind of cheap facsimile of the real thing that it feels gross. And obviously the joke of the whole thing is haha, I'm dead, you know. Okay, great,
that's really not funny objectively. But I bet you that if I or any of the three of us were like real students of Carlin and like had done deep dives into all of his more than I believe a dozen stand up specials, we'd hear snatches of what created the jokes in this AI. We'd hear like the kind of the bones of them, I think, you know. And that's that's how I or machine learning works. It isn't creating things out of whole cloth. It's sort of remixing things that already exist.
Now you can hear it attempting to match his timings, right, you know, it's not again, it's not quite there because it's not a person reacting in real time to an audience the way his specials were.
It sounds like someone doing an impression of Carlin as a voice actor, with jokes that he would have not written because he would have done a better job, to be honest. But also it reminds me, what's that old Mitch Hedberg joke about he's on a movie set and so he smoked fake weed with Willie Nelson and he said that was a lot like the time I smoked real weed with a guy who looked like Willy Nelson.
You know, like there's a it's an erosion of the post truth environment, and I've got to be honest, Noel, Matt. It's it's making me rethink the joke we made on Instagram about AI coming for everyone.
Well yeah, no, yeah, for sure. And I think again, what these guys got wrong in this presentation was a messing with the legendary comedian. But that's and you know, knowing that there are diehards that are going to come for you. But maybe that's the point, you know, the idea of killing your darlings or killing your idols or whatever, that there's there's no nothing's off limits in comedy or whatever.
And it does seem again, those those Tom Hanks Wizard videos are really funny, but no one would ever even come close to mistaking those anything Tom Hanks actually participated in. There's some other YouTubers and podcasts, YouTubers I guess more specifically that use deep fakes to like put on the face of a celebrity while they're doing the celebrities voice, Like there's this one guy that does Gary Busey all the time, and I think those are really funny and
use use of that technology. But also it's really clear what you're looking at if you pay any attention. This one and almost has the potential to like hurt some feelings, you.
Know, And so hold on, we didn't play the part at the very beginning, as Jerry, it's a statement that this is not George Carlin. This is dudeesy I am this is an AI I am not. I am not George Carlin. So like for me, people who are like really upset about this, they're like outraged and hurt outside
of maybe the actual family of George Carlin. I feel like that's performative because this is I have I have to say that I feel it feels like I'm outraged and I didn't even actually look into this thing deep enough, right the guy here.
I listened to the whole special. You're right that that disclaimer is explicit. It is quite clear, and it's at the front of the special. However, counterpoint, we can make the argument that many people who are hearing this are going to be hearing clips of it rather than the entirety of the thing, and those clips do not have that sort of disclaimer. Now, as the idea of performative
upset goes, I totally get you on that. I think you hit a really important point, which is that the family is saying, why are you Why are you resurrecting this guy and making a buck off of it? By the way it is, it is monetized.
That's a good point. That's actually a very valid point.
That's what I was going to bring up. And I think mainly I'm thinking about the family here. I'm not really that concerned with Internet, you know, outrage mongers. But Kelly Carlin, the daughter of the late comedian, had this to say my statement regarding the AI generated George Carlin special. My dad spent a lifetime perfecting his craft from his very human life, brain and imagination. No machine will ever replace his genius. These AI generated products are clever attempts,
she acknowledges. They're clever at trying to recreate a mind that will never exist. Again, Let's let the artists work speak for itself. Humans are so afraid of the void that we can't let what has fallen into it stay there. Here's an idea. How about we give some actual living human comedians I listen to, but if you want to listen to the genuine George Carlin, he has fourteen specials that you can find anywhere, and.
They're pretty good, by the way, folks, Sure, yeah, they're all pretty great.
He's one of the greats. And I think Kelly Carlin really nailed it. And I do want to again not completely throw the DUDESI folks under the bus. In the Vice article that talks about this, Matthew Galt, who starts the article by talking saying how he's a diehard George Carlin fan and he found this egregiously not anything goes so far as to say it was offensive. But he really just said he said it cannot be unseen and he just found it to be worse than you could possibly imagine,
is what he said. But again to your point from the story, maybe you said that's off air, Matt, but some of these things are meant to be bad. It is the comedy of cringe, you know, that's a culture that we that definitely exists in, like alternative comedy. But Will Sasso, who we talked about and all I think three of us have been fans of his stuff in the past, had this to say on the actual podcast where they talked about this before they did it as clips.
I guess, and that's the format of the show, and then they published the whole thing. But he said beat me here, I guess, So let's just say it beat myself. I personally don't want to hear a freaking song I'm gonna swear like my kid does, freaking Nirvana song that's not written by Kurt Cobain and played by freaking Nirvana. I don't give a shoot. I don't give a shoot. It's not real. It doesn't matter. Anyone can do an
impression z is doing an impression. I don't think a new comic has anything to worry about because we need new voices. And that's essentially what Kelly Carlin said as well, So that disclaimer is in there too. So I guess I think this is a lot of outrage over nothing. I just think they may be miscuted a little bit, not really anticipating the reaction. But Mike, my question is to you guys, is there anything off limits? Like where does the line between satire and ripoff exist with this
kind of technology? And is it I don't know when is it okay? When is it not okay? What are the guidelines? What are the where are the guideposts?
The guideline for good satire. Satire when it works, comes from a place of respect, acknowledgment, and love. That's why good satire works. That's why really really successful Saturday Night live impressions that carry, that's why they often do well. You know, if you see, for instance, if you see the parody of Wes Anderson film as a horror movie, it's coming from people clearly studied. They love Wes Anderson and with Doodzi, you know, there's two storied comedians here,
students of their craft. They clearly, like anybody worth their salt, as tremendous. They have tremendous respect for George Carlin. The idea of whether or not something should be off limits, it can be phrased as a complex question, but a lot of that complex, like again to use the word performative nuance around it, like, oh, it was a complicated issue.
What it's dodging is the idea of consent. Right. What is off limits that to which one does not consent being who is being paid homage here, paid tribute or impersonated or mechanical turk here, it is a dead person who cannot consent.
States And they were not consulted to just just put that out there. I think that might have been part of the outrage. On that end, they probably wouldn't have given permission. I just want to add one last thing, like, well, weird al you know famously, Well he doesn't have to get permission because of parody laws. He always does because
I think it's just the smart move pr wise. You know so, I think famously Prince would never consent to allowing him to do a parody of a print song, which is pretty on brand for Prince yeah, but he could have done it because the law allows him to do that as far as I'm aware.
Well, he's also making records for Sony right, which is no, it's no small deal there. So, like I imagine, Yankevick wants to dot his eyes and cross his t's if guys, doesn't it feel like if you want to get like maximum promotion for something, maximum people talking about it, do something shocking because people get so angry they just have to post about it and give their opinion. That's a exactly what this.
Is very good for, Duzzy excellent point.
Then, yeah, I mean, honestly, I was hearing about all the crazy stuff that Elon Musk is up to. And while it does sound like that guy's mega spiraling and probably on drugs of varying varieties, you know, you got to wonder when someone has that much, that many resources at their disposal and there really is no quote unquote losing, isn't the name of the game just to be as infuriating as possible, just so you don't get bumped from the headlines. I think some of what he's doing is that,
and it's calculating. I think some of the other stuff that he's doing, isn't that? But you know we see it all the time. There's no bad press quote unquote. If if you don't care, the crazy thing is.
Think about how many people heard about this story and didn't actually listen to the episode or watch the episode of the podcast. So they watched a clip right or they write a headline like it. But they know what Dudzy is now and they didn't know what Dudez was a little before.
Hell Devil's Advocate. They know who George Carr Roland is now.
Man.
I mean a lot of kids, you know who are following this kind of stuff probably not aware of the work of George Carlin. You know, there's a cutoff for like the types of entertainers that my kid and their generation are aware of. You know, when music, the knowledge goes pretty far back, but when it comes to like actors, certain comedians, there would be a massive blind spot in
that generation for a guy like George Carlin. So you know, you could argue that this is exposing people to George Carlin's work as well.
Yeah, I didn't know this about the show. The creators of The Dudzy Show have not revealed what company is backing the show and the dudezy AI.
That's correct.
That's a wrinkle to me, a.
Little weird, like is it proprietary? Is it in service to some you know what I mean? Like is it training an AI for a company?
Yeah?
I think that's very very, very interesting and valliding to bring up. And I wonder how long they're going to milk that. I would argue that the story might cause them to do a little damage control. I'll be interested to see if maybe a reveal does come after the backlash from this. But they definitely did what they set out to do, which is to get some new listeners, even if they're just hey listeners. But let's take a
quick break. We'll hear a word from our sponsor, which is probably not an AI chat butt, and we'll be back with one more piece of strange news.
Speaking of only reading the headlines, Boby, the world's oldest dog, is being investigated for fraud. I sent this in a group chat earlier because I love a good headline. Bobi is being investigated, you know, obviously for claims about his age, But in my head, guys, I love picturing the world's oldest dog. Somehow, being like the subject of an investigation for some street level crowd, like he's selling loose cigarettes or he started MLM somewhere. Anyway, we've got we've got
a lot of headlines. We wanted to We wanted to talk about something that we may have mentioned in years past, which is now reaching a culminating point and hopefully bringing justice to a great number of victims. Uh. You guys remember Abercrombie and Fitch. You ever went into one of those stores?
Yeah?
Who wear Abercrombie and Fitch in the summer.
I bought my son and jacket from there not long ago. I hope everything's okay.
Are those the pants that are like pre distressed? Wasn't that their thing? Don't they do that? Or is that American ego? I think it's maybe.
That's every GA company.
Yeah, a lot of money. You save a lot of money selling them pre distressed, right, because you can lower your QA standards, your quality assurance, and then you can sell for a higher markup. And shout out to codename Doc Holliday for also mentioning that song you ellude to. This is quite a pickle. This is a real bag of badgers. There is a former CEO of Abercrombie and Fitch,
which I don't know about you all. I always sort of associated it with the I would say, light jock, light sporting demographic.
It's a bro brand.
The former CEO of Abercrombie and Fitch, Mike Jeffries, is facing a couple of different lawsuits now thanks to some excellent investigative work by our friends across the pond at the BBC. What I'd like to do is walk through the story. For anybody wants more information on this, please do check out the World of Secrets podcast Season one. The Abercrombie guys and as you know, fellow conspiracy realists, we don't blow smoke when we recommend podcasts that we
think you would enjoy. This is not in any way an ad for the work of these journalists. This is not even something that is in our corporate overlord network. This is just good work and it matters, so it's worth checking out. Here's what happened. So the BBC does an investigation into longstanding allegations of things like sexual abuse,
sexual discrimination, even unto sex trafficking. This triggered the FBI FBI agents specifically specializing in sex crimes and federal prosecutors from the Eastern District of New York to look into the allegations right now, Mike Jefferies and his partner is a British national, are also facing a civil lawsuit. This is much deeper water the allegations. Oh and the British partner here is Matthew Smith. So let's go to the BBC directly. Rihanna Croxford writes the following FBI investigate after
ex Abercrombie boss sex claims. So Jeffries and Smith Matthew Smith are accused of exploiting young men for sexual activities at events they hosted in their New York residencies. They have multiple residencies in New York and then across the world at very high end hotels. No less than eight men as of January twenty twenty four have told the British broadcasters that they went to these events they were
coerced into sexual activity. This occurred in places like London, Paris, Marrakesh for more than a decade from two thousand and nine to twenty f fifteen. That's why I know that we touched on this, or at least talked about it off air in the past. Over the course of our careers on the show, and what the BBC found includes stuff like event itineraries, flight tickets, a very a very strange kind of middleman. I'd like to share with you guys an image of someone involved in this trafficking scheme.
Are you ready? Oh yeah, okay, So I'm going to share this. I want you guys to react to this this and we'll tell you who it is. After you see this picture. There we go, well, it's the guy, not the dog.
The guy dog. What's going on with that guy's nose?
So he is missing his news?
He has is as hard a time with the picture because it looks like a blur. It's weird. I wasn't being able.
Let's do anything right, right right? He has a he has a what look to be a snake skin prosthetic over his nose. I'm just saying, this almost looks like central casting for a villain.
Yes, it does. I was thinking of And initially he looks kind of like Tommy why So from the room. He just has this guy He's got a big lustrous head of hair and the sunglasses and I don't know, he just had that Tommy why So vibe.
So that middle man is named James Jacobson. The investigators at the BBC or the journalist tracked him down. He denied any wrongdoing and he said, look, certain adult activities may have occurred, but all of the people involved went to those events with quote their eyes wide open. And he also, I don't know his testimony or his statements.
It's a little bit muddied right now because when the BBC went and contacted this guy, like knocked on his door directly, he told them at the beginning, if you keep me anonymous, let's make a deal and I'll tell you everything. And the BBC said, no, we have to tell the actual story. So good on you, folks. I will pause here. I've got to ask. We've all heard of Abercrombie and Fitch here in the US, but do you guys remember these allegations or does this ring in a distant bell?
Yeah, this was. This hit the news a couple of months ago. It just because, as you said, Ben, this has been ongoing like for a while where information has been coming out in little fits and starts. But it does feel like this is at least this is the most information we've ever seen in one place. Right, I'll tell you.
One thing that always struck me a little odd about Abercrombie were their ad campaigns that often involved very young, hairless, scantily clad boys. That is, it's always something that struck me about that. I just it was a little different.
And I know that, you know, the homore eroticism and things like that have always been big in fashion, like Calvin Klein and you know, briefs and you know, all that stuff, and it's totally a thing, you know, but Abercrombie's always kind of had a little more of that than some brands, that know, as you seeing. And I wonder if that was a culture, you know, or if some of these abuses involved models or anything like that as well.
Think back to twenty eleven, twenty twelve, when the news about the very strange corporate guide to the private flights broke like that, gosh, I don't remember any of this, Yeah, that was Let me put a link in the chat here. Here's something from huffingting Post what we see here. What we see here is that the under the auspice or under the guidance of Mike Jeffries, the corporate jet became sort of a playground for this sort of exploitation and
the rules about dress behavior nomenclature. They were very specific. They were also skirting the line of what would be considered legally required from an employer toward an employee, like they were just on the side of criminal.
Yeah. Basically, Oh, you want to be an abercrombian Fitch model, then guess what. Here's here's the rules, as you said, the rule book, and it's not it's probably not going to be that fun for you.
It's under Yeah, there's a weird line in here about the flight attendance and making them respond to names that weren't their own, very kind of domb kind of behavior. It would and you know, much like I think we're all a little weirded out by the Chick fil A my pleasure response. I think it rubs everybody the wrong way a little bit. This one has them saying things like no problem, like you know, very short, what's the word, kind of affirmative kind of sub you know, like I
am here to serve. So that's yeah, but it's weird in this context.
And I'm glad you mentioned the Chick fil A thing, because I've brought that up on the past as well. It's a weird flex. That Huffington Post article we mentioned is by Alice Hines October eighteenth, twenty twelve, so this story dates back much much further than the reporting that's happening now. I'd like to, if it's okay, shout out another great piece of journalism by Gloria Oledipo over at The Guardian. This includes some some sobering quotes, and again
this may not be appropriate for all audiences. I'll read it. Let's react. Quote. One man told the BBC that he believed his drink had been spiked at an event after Jeffries attempted to kiss him during a dance performance. The man said that he fell asleep in a back room and woke up to find a condom inside of him. This is a quote. When I put things together, I believe there is a very good possibility I was drugged and raped. I'll probably never never know for sure the
answer to what happened. Most of the men who spoke to the BBC said they felt degraded and harmed because of their experience with Jeffreys and Smith. There was a former model named Barrett Paul talking to the BBC. One of the last quotes will give who says the following. My feeling of being in that room was an animal. I was not a human to any of these people. I was a body. I was being presented someone to do what they wanted with.
Yeah, and I want to just walk not walk back, but just clarify that when I was talking about how some of these ad campaigns struck me in a certain way. You know, there was a time when when we were younger, I guess, or even in the two thousands, where kind of queer culture wasn't front and center as much as it is today. And then I think it's it's wonderful that it is, and there's much more of a voice for that culture in public conversation and pop culture and
all of that. But there was a time where it was sort of like less mainstream and much more underground, and this kind of fashiony queer coding kind of stuff didn't seem to me to be a positive thing necessarily for the queer community. It was more of like a subjugation of that and sort of using it as like a fashion brand, iconic kind of thing for a campaign.
Well. Also, Abercrombie has been accused in the past of some pretty discriminatory and racist practices right this, Yeah, it's a company that has had problems. I was looking in deep to establish a timeline. I feel like there could be a full episode here because folks need to know stuff we could get into in a deeper dive, concerns things like the Lex Wesner connection, which there is one,
by the way, troubling stuff. It could also involve questions of why there was not more investigation earlier, because you guys, Jeffries ran Abercrombie Fitch from nineteen ninety two to twenty fourteen, So during that entirety of the time, these weird rules on plane flights, the weird discrimination, the sexual quid pro quo stuff that was happening the entire time. And right now it's twenty twenty four, a decade later, and nothing
has been done. And it makes you think there are a lot of similarities with some Epstein stuff here.
I remember this guy now that I'm looking at photos of him, he looks perma surprised. Let's put it that way. No shade on anyone that gets procedures done with this guy's head had quite a few and yeah, he's definitely going for that. Like I'm youthful until I'm dead in the ground kind of fountain of youth vibe, and that can really do a number on people's Brenton psyche and they really live that life. You know, we know this from hell, from all kinds of stories in history and
in you know, fantasy and fiction. Yeah.
I don't want to. I never want to body shame anybody for their appearance or how they present. But judging on the behavior alone, the actions here, this is something that feels like stuff they don't want you to to know a long time in coming, and it makes me wonder. You know, we have to be really careful not to paint with two broad a brush and connect patterns or recognized patterns where none exist. But the Wexner connection seems real.
This also reminds me of you know, I think that was an excellent point about the dirty business of modeling as an industry wherein that sort of abuse is simply tolerated. It also makes me again, I just keep coming back to it. You guys, why were there no investigations? You know, it's like the It's like the Brian Singer question, remember Brian Singer x men.
Totally Yeah, I mean, powerful people can pull strings make things go away.
What did Singer do? I don't remember.
He had these Hollywood Hills parties with, you know, taking advantage of young starry eyed kids coming to Hollywood to make a name for themselves. And there's a specific kid that spoke, you know, testified to some really gnarly stuff alleged never alleged, yes, correct, but what he spoke to,
if true, very gnarly. And you know Singer kind of he sort of bounced back from that, but never really Like often happens, you know, you take a hit, you disappear, you're not really dealing with major consequences, but you kind of don't get to keep being the person you used to be. There is that, you know, I don't know.
Sure from far enough away, maybe that looks like a consequence.
Now you're right, Ben right?
I mean I feel you on this too. You know. For anybody who is looking into this at home, after you get done with the BBC stuff, do check out the Wexner Jeffreys connection, and do also check out the stories about Brian Singer and Kevin Spacey. This is true stuff. They don't want you to know. If you are hearing this and you have been affected by these sorts of unclean activities, then there are resources available counseling, therapy and hopefully closure and justice.
Oh really quickly. It's not exactly an upnoe. It might break your heart, Matt. You've probably heard about this, but I meant to mention it at the end of the Carlon bit. But apparently Wizards of the Coast have sheepishly admitted to using AI in the design of their Magic Cards series. And they initially denied it, And it's apparently in a background image of something in their new series. It's something about like a like a lovecrafty and manner kind of situation. I remember what it's called.
Wait, but wasn't it Okay, Well, what I had seen is that they had made a promotional image. That's right.
I don't think it was a card. You're right, I'm under saying the case, keep me honest.
Just because just because Wizards has been so amazing at supporting incredible artists, right, So it would break my heart if they actually did that. But I can yeah, I can imagine a promo image utilizing it for that, but maybe not wanting to admit it. But they did admit it. They did it.
Speaking of supporting folks, so I want to make sure we get this on air. The resources we're mentioning are things like the National Sexual Assault Hotline. Here in the US it is eight hundred six five six four six seven to three. There are so many other stories we didn't get to. Eighty two percent of Americans can't afford a new car. There is a Kentucky politician who is going to fail, I think, to try to legalize getting
frisky with your cousin. The Paris Review has a fantastic article out now about a creative writing group based in the CIA with CIA operatives. It's called Invisible Ink. All this and more.
That was so good. By the way, did you read that article? I did.
Yeah, it's so good.
But did you say getting risky or frisky with your risky.
Visit the long term? Genetically, it's risky activity. Shout out, hat shout out. So we can't wait to hear from you, folks in future episodes. We hope you are having wonderful twenty twenty four. We'll be back later this week with messages from you, with some deep dives into some strange stuff they don't want you to know. In the meantime, join us. We can't wait to hear from you.
That's right. You can find us all over the internet. We exist the handle conspiracy Stuff on YouTube, x FKA, Twitter, and also Facebook where we have our Facebook group. Here's where it gets crazy, where Ben, I think somebody posted on that group a piece of comic book art fan fiction. I get maybe it wasn't full fan fiction, but it was definitely a page or so out of a comic project that featured you and Matt and I as like kind of a D and D party of some sort on the road.
Yeah.
I said it to you guys in a group chat. We're gonna shout. We're gonna shout out our fellow conspiracy realist on listener mail. We love that kind of stuff. Though in the story we are halflings who help investigate a case of poisoning slash murder?
Are there more panels in now? Was trying to figure out what was going on?
Yet? I believe they are.
Oh, I can't wait to read the rist And we also exist the handle conspiracy Stuff show on Instagram and TikTok.
And if you would like to engage a telephonic device to share with us a story we have three minutes, fresh baked waiting for you, just waiting for you. Specifically, all you have to do is give us a ring where we are one eight three three std WYTK, give us a nickname that you've always wanted. Let us know whether or not we can use your name and or message on air. Most importantly, do not limit, do not
censor yourself. If you have ancillary links, if you have video footage, if you have new leads, amazing stories we would love to learn or about them. Just drop us a good old fashioned line at our email address where we.
Are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com. Stuff they Don't want you to know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.