Fellow conspiracy realisted. Is now secret that we are all cinephiles. We have different actually we have three very different complimentary backgrounds in the world of film and fiction. And Paul as well. Paul is a noted filmmaker who just classes up this show with us. And when we talk about the world of film. Even if you were just a casual person, you know you watch popcorn flicks or whatever,
everybody knows Stanley Kubrick. He is so accomplished, He is such a luminary that he himself is the basis of not one, but multiple conspiracy theories. Right, he faked the moon landing, he predicted the future, and the shining or the shining is about the moon landing? Right? What else? Those are the big ones?
How are you going to go out with eyes Wide shut as your last movie? My god?
Oh yeah, it's the most like Illuminati movie of all time ever. Yeah, a little bit non or some naughty bits in that one too. Kubrick is neat because he's not what you'd exactly call prolific. He has a very finite body of work and each one of them, banger after bang, are very different, and yet somehow with the signature kind of style.
But he's just really is just the detail. It's the detail, the detail in every single thing that you see.
Oh yeah, how he would go out and make little models to figure to figure out the correct lighting for things. That's that's that's and I love what you're pointing out there, the quality over quantity argument. I mean, before we get rolling, just I've never asked you guys, what, in your opinion, are are Kubrick's lesser known films that people should check out his older ones.
I think The Killing is really great. It's a black and white film from I believe the sixties early sixties, and it very much is a similar kind of unreliable, out of order story as like Reservoir Dogs.
I would I think I've read The Tarantine.
I was really into The Killing, but it's like a heist movie, and a lot of people don't know that one.
I think it's excellent.
Confession, I've never seen that movie, but it's on my list.
It's very same.
I don't think i've I don't think i've seen it either, but I do. You know what that reminds me of when to talk about nonlinear nonlinear filmmaking. The first time I saw The Godfather Parts one and two. I'm going to date myself. I got it from a videotape rental place because there were three tapes.
It was three tapes, I believe it was.
Yeah, it was a lot of tapes. But here's here's the deal. I watched it by myself. Was the first time I'd ever seen it. I was pretty I was pretty young, but old enough to know better. Someone had put the tapes in the wrong order and the containers and I was so I was watching it out of order as I see. Yeah, I was like, this is crazy.
Well, and the time the storytelling in that moves in and out of time as well. So yes, I can't imagine you.
Could have been easily convinced that you were doing the right thing that you wouldn't have like stopped and known something was a miss, but it was.
It was Godfather one and two. Just watched it all straight through it. I'm like, why does Robert de Niro keep showing up and then disappearing? Oh?
You you were watching parts of two intermingled with parts of one.
Yeah, because I got part two. That's even crazy tapes.
Yeah, that's funny.
But yeah, I mean, obviously you know Coppola, another incredible luminary, known for an excellent war movie, Apocalypse Now. Kubrick also one of the top contenders for a movie about the Vietnam War ever made Full Metal Jacket. Yeah, honestly. But to your point, Ben, there is you know, he's famous for his fastidiousness.
You know.
Shelley Devall famously was forced to do that scene walking up the stairs with the baseball bat and the shining like one hundred and twenty times. I think it made the Guinness Booke Award records for the most takes and I was like, where are those other takes? He apparently burns them right.
Yeah, because we wanted to I remember we talked about this past way and.
To see these.
But be that as it me. Despite the fact that he has a finite body of work, Stanley Kubrick has a continuing and indeed evolving legacy in the world of conspiratorial thoughts.
Dare we say mythology.
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn this stuff they don't want you to know.
Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt Been married nine years, Frederick.
Hey, congratulations, Matt, been married nine years, Frederick.
My name's Noel. Been divorced for a couple of years Brown.
Yes, congratulations, Matt been married nine years, Frederick. They call me Ben. Our super producer Paul one Take Decandi is away on adventures, but we are joined with our super producer, Casey Pegram, who you may recognize from several other shows here at How Stuff Works.
Hey, guys, thanks for having me in today.
Thanks for coming on the show, Casey. Most importantly, if you're listening to this, that means you are you, you are here, and that makes this stuff They don't want you to know.
It really is Matt's ninth anniversary.
Yeah, that's true. That's really funny for this. Yeah.
Yeah, not while you're listening, but while we are listening to ourselves.
Unless this episode somehow comes out on the same day we record it, which usually doesn't happen unless quick peek behind this curtain. We got something wrong. But yes, massive congratulations Matt. A lot of people may not know that you and Casey have worked together extensively in the past in the film world.
Right, that's right. We owned a company together for a while there he shot my wedding. We made numerous projects together.
Yeah, shout out to Bright Elephant.
Oh dear, oh.
No, Now people will know what to search on Google. There might be some stuff on Google.
I don't know. I think the website is no no longer.
He shot up your wedding, and you guys are still he did.
But it was it was like celebratory style in the airport.
It was like a wedding. It was I think it was a bank heist wedding.
Yeah, one of those.
And how cinematic would that be? Speaking of amazing segues, guys, we're finally getting to an episode that a lot of you have asked us about in the past. I mean, for years, we're all film buffs here at the studio, and like many of you, we spend a lot of time kicking around theories and discussing the implications of various works as well as there are greater influences on later
films and filmmakers. Today, we are diving into one of the most well known conspiracies in the world of and to do this justice we have to begin with a single man. His name is Stanley Kubrick.
Old stan the Man Kubrick was born on July the twenty sixth of the year nineteen and twenty eight in the Bronx. You guys ever been to the Bronx.
Yes, I have never been there often.
Oh wait, we went to the Bronx once.
Right, Yeah, we were briefly there on that one.
Day the hidden buildings. Yeah yeah, yeah, that's not such a secret anymore. Yeah.
His dad was a physician and his mother a housewife. And he was a bad bad boy.
Yeah, he was notoriously bad at school. In elementary school, he had about as many absences as he did attendance days. He was an outcast once he got to high school. He later claimed, I never learned anything at school, and I never read a book for pleasure until I was nineteen. But when he did, he caught the bug. And originally he wanted to either play baseball or be a writer. Imagine how different the world would be if we were talking about Stanley.
Kubrick, the third baseman.
The third baseman, right, And he did have one shining aspect or moment in high school. It wasn't all rainy, gray days and sad songs on the radio. He turned out to be a promising photographer, which I think happens with a lot of people who later go on to become directors, Right, They start off with still photography and they have a gift for it.
Do we talk about why Casey's on the show today.
Because it all's not here?
Well, no, but he's.
Also I mean, come on, guys, Casey's like a film for Sionado.
Oh yeah. We went to film school together at Georgia State University and Casey was in several of my classes and he always knew more than the professors, and he would never admit to that, but he did.
Casey has an encyclopedia knowledge of film lore.
So Casey Kober. He shot a lot of stuff early on for was it Look Magazine?
Yeah? Look Magazine? And yeah he was.
He was quite the accomplished kind of photo journalist, even right from the start. And yeah, I mean obviously the everything that he learned and technically about still photography also tends to apply to filmmaking. So he kind of got in early that way.
So the point holds, right, Is that something we see with other directors as well, Casey?
Yeah, certain directors, you know, every director is different. Some have more of like a theater kind of background. Or a writer background, but definitely the ones that are like more hands on with the camera and tend to think more in terms of images. Photography is like a great, great way to get into filmmaking.
So he started on this path early. Right age sixteen, he's selling photos to Look, and the next year, by the time he's seventeen, they hired him full time.
Yeah, and I was just gonna say, it's obviously a great way to kind of establish your meis enceinn you know, where you kind of figure out how to frame things and what No, you know, you figure out you know you're framing and do it with still photography. You can certainly apply that to moving images as well. Absolutely, in the way you place objects in the frame.
Oh, most certainly.
And we have a little bit of a romanticized picture of his early life because when he wasn't traveling for Look as a photographer, he spent most nights at the Museum of Modern Art or.
MoMA, Yeah, or at a park playing chess.
He did that a lot, and that that seems really cool. That's way more productive than a lot of things that the average person would do in the evening. Unfortunately, he was rejected from every college he applied to every single one full stop.
Because he was a bad boy. He probably didn't have the transcripts needed.
Yeah, he probably just didn't have the grades. But it seemed like he wasn't a huge proponent of organized education to begin with. However, he did not waste time. The time he would have spent in college, he spent working on documentary shorts financed by friends and family. These were some of his early works.
Yeah, and he thought he could make a good deal of money making these types of things because there was another company and Casey, I don't know if you know this, but or I don't know if you do have the answer to this question, but there was some company that was supposedly selling documentary shorts for fifty thousand dollars something in say, forty thousand dollars at the time, and he thought, well, I can do that. I can sell those and make
a ton of money. I'll spend ten thousand dollars, make thirty thousand dollars or something like that, only to find out, oh, oh no, you can't sell a documentary short for that much money.
That's interesting.
Yeah, I don't know the name of that company, but Kubrick, you know, later on in his filmmaking career, was always kind of a very very active producer on his films, and he controlled the budgets very very metigulously, and it was all with an eye towards being able to have the time to do the films the way he wanted them and never have that pressure to just have to
get the shot and move on. So he learned very very early on that you have to control the money in filmmaking, and that's what's going to allow you to get that perfect shot every time.
You know. That's that's a really good point, because that's something a lot of directors when they're first starting out get wrong, right, that you have to do the unfund stuff as well as the creative stuff. Kubrick's first feature was this military drama called Fear and Desire, came out in nineteen fifty three. Oddly enough, he made it without
the help of a studio. To your point, Casey, he was somewhat of a one man band who is multitasking, not just with the budget, not just directing, but also editing, working sound, doing cinematography, doing things ordinarily would be a group of people's individual jobs.
He would also shoot physically. You know with the camera. He didn't like have a cinematographer. He was that guy.
Yeah, I mean in later films he did work with cinematographers, but even then it was kind of understood that the cinematographer was like his backup in a way, like if the cinematographer was not there for some reason, Cooper could obviously step in and do it just as well. There's an anecdote when he's making his first semi commercial feature where he was working with a very well respected cinematographer and Kubrick told him the lens he wanted and where
he wanted to put the track. He was going to do a dolly shot, and the cinematographer had a different idea about how to do the shot, maybe something a little more conventional, And so he put the tracks somewhere else and he put on the lens he felt like putting on, and Kubrick, you know, caught it right away and said, I didn't tell you to put the dolly there. I didn't tell you to put the track there. I didn't tell you to put the lens on. So do what I said, or you know, you're you're fired off
this film. And from then on I think that cinematographer knew he could not like pull a fast one on Kubrick.
Yeah, because he's paid meticulous attention to detail, right, And it's something that shows in his filmography. We know from fifty seven nineteen fifty seven, just in case we came on glued. From time there to nineteen ninety nine, he made numerous feature films I believe ten, and these include some of the greatest hits, right, Spartacus in nineteen sixty In nineteen sixty two, which I do have to say, despite the premise, is a fantastic book by Nabokov.
I'm glad you liked it.
Did you read it?
I read some of it. I watched some versions the versions of it. Is there only one version.
Of there's like a jam Iron Yeah, yeah, Adrian Line version that was like in the nineties or something.
It has one of my favorite depictions of a death scene, at least the novel.
Okay, yeah.
In the first page, and there's a little bit of a spoiler. The narrator is super unreliable and a terrible person is talking about how his mother passed away, and all you learn is there's this parenthetical where it's just like Picnic Comma Lightning and then it moves on. It's one of my favorite death scenes.
He also has one of the best and most redundant names in literature, Humbred Humbered.
I enjoy quite a lot and this socide, like Lolita, is a very controversial story, and it's got some hugely problematic things, but Kubrick never never hesitated. I guess to address controversial themes like Doctor Strangelove or how I learned to stop worrying and love the bomb which made nineteen sixty four. That's predictably something that we dig, right, yea, and I went back as we research. I'm sure. I'm sure you guys did too, to look at some great
clips from that one. In particular, you watch the Nuke of course, of course I have dreams about that.
Slim Pickens, you know.
I mean, if you gotta go, what a way? What a way to go?
Yeah, I'd be pretty cooling on WHATLD feel like.
You'd probably just get vaporized instantly, Yeah, only after the high of writing the thing.
I guess eventually you pass out, though first, wouldn't you. I don't know. I guess it depends on the elevation terminal velocity thing.
That's true point. He also probably wouldn't be able to hold onto the thing with your legs like that.
I mean that guy fall from. That guy was definitely easy to thigh master of some sort. He had, you know what he had, h what's a good phrase? He had saddle ride in thighs. Mmmm, this is getting weird.
The hustlin Pickens was was unaware that movie was a comedy. Oh really, And he was, you know, he's kind of known for being like a player in westerns and stuff.
And he loved the story.
And I think he had more of like a sincere interpretation of it, and in Kubrick did not disabuse him of that notion.
So and yet he rode the nuke yeah yeah, yeah, waving his hat around the circles, going yeah.
I didn't think that was he was all about it. I thought that was sincere. In nineteen sixty eight, Stanley Kubrick releases what remains one of his most popular films, two thousand and one, A Space Odyssey. On a side note here, the first manned moon landing, according to the official story, occurred on July twentieth, nineteen sixty eight, which will be importantly.
A mere hours after the Chapiquitic incident.
Oh really interesting.
True.
And in case anyone was interested and wants some spoilers for the relatively un spoilable ending of two thousand and one in Space Odyssey, there is an interview that surfaced recently where Kubrick kind of goes beat by beat about what that ending is supposed to mean.
Something that he typically did not do.
But this was like for I think Japanese television, and it was something that never really made it over here until very recently, but it's worth checking out if you want to go over to Esquire and here Stanley Kubrick explained the two thousand and.
One Space out of the ending in a rare unearthed video. That's the name of the article.
Which we should post on Here's where it gets crazy, Yeah, definitely, which is our Facebook community page, hang out with Us. He has other works, of course, a clockwork Orange Barry Lyndon the Shining, a personal favorite of mind full Metal Jacket. And while he's making these amazing iconic works of film, he is also, of course kind of living a life outside of his job, but only kind of. He's married
three times. He has three daughters in the early nineteen sixties, he moves to the UK and begins to build a reputation as a close almost JD. Salinger level, but maybe not quite. He avoids interviews, There barely any photographs of him, none of them are formal, and he spends little time outside of the studio.
He looks like you would picture a typical hermit.
Might look, yeah, a beard.
Beard, kind of shaggy on kempt hare.
And it should be noted that he takes huge breaks in between feature films as the years kind of go by, and his last like four films I want to say three or four film.
Aura, So yeah, Terrence Malick.
Yeah, it takes him a long time between projects. And there is more history there of other films he tried to get off the ground and for one reason or another it didn't end up happening, or he decided he didn't want to make. Probably the biggest one is Napoleon that he was going to do, I think after two thousand and one, and he spent years and years kind of creating this like day by day account of Napoleon's life.
He had this whole like index card catalog system of where Napoleon was on like every single day of his life, just about wow. And he made you know, he put years of his life into it. And ultimately there was other Napoleon movies that came out in the same period that did not perform well at the box office, and he couldn't get it made after that.
You know, I've never seen a Napoleon movie. Have you guys seen a Napoleon movie.
I've seen Bill and Ted. Yeah, but you'd.
Think that, you know, maybe he's just an unsympathetic character. She's very well, okay, that must be a but no, but casey to your point. So with this whole methodical card catalog system, probably a bit of a neurotic, a little bit of a stickler obsessive.
Yeah, yeah, there was a sweet thing I found in the research. While he was living in the UK and becoming increasingly reclusive, his sister would tape football and baseball games for some of his favorite teams, like the New York Giants, and she would send him to She would send these to him in the mail, so he still had that human connection. Stanley Kubrick dies in his sleep on March seventh, nineteen ninety nine, mere hours after delivering a pri of eyes Wide Shut, and this would become
his last film. But it's where our story really begins, and we'll get to it after a word from our sponsors. We're back. So these are just the brief highlights, very brief highlights, as it were, of Kubrick's life and times, and there's much much more to his story off screen.
In fact, even in the on screen stuff. Entire volumes of literature have been dedicated to the story behind a single Kubrick film, like Full Metal Jacket or The Shining or Eyes or two thousand oh yeah, especially or Eyes Wide Shut.
Yeah.
I always felt like that movie was secretly, not so secretly about the illuminati.
You did a kind of.
A there's a surprising amount of fringe journalists and researchers who believe that A. Well, they tend to agree with your point, Noel. They believe that his most influential work has little or nothing to do with what the public perceives is his of wooll of.
I what the hell is that?
It's your body of work?
Yeah, it's your tight, tight body of work.
Well, well, can we really fast just casey? I think one of the reasons, just before we get into all this, one of the reasons that people feel that way is because, uh, he dealt a lot with visual symbols, symbology, things that represented other things that would be in a shot or the shot would be a certain way to speak beyond just what is occurring, what you're seeing on screen, or what's what you're hearing.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think I think Kubrick, again going back to kind of his his origins and still photography, was was all about the image and composition and symbology and kind of going into the deeper layers of story telling, you know, Joseph Campbell, Carl Jung, that kind of stuff, the idea of archetypes and these kind of like primal tendencies in narratives and and things that recur in stories over and over throughout you know time. So he was kind of tapped into a lot of that.
I think we've said up before, got to say it again. There's an excellent article by Cormack McCarthy that addresses this concept of symbol as communication beyond articulated language. It's called the kakul A problem. Where did language come from? We should totally post that in case you would love this.
That sounds great, actually, yeah, and just kind of something that occurred to me. Kubrick once he was living in England and sort of, you know, being a little bit more perhaps reclusive. He was having like tapes of American football games and baseball games I think sent over to him from the United States. But in one interview he actually says that the commercials interested him more than the games themselves, because just something that could tell a complete
story within the span of thirty or fifteen seconds. The economy of that, of means of communicating that in just a handful of images in the best advertising really fascinated him.
I would love to see him review commercials.
I've always felt that way about like jingles or like making a little tent fifteen second theme tune for a show. I dabbled in that with some of our podcasts. It's really fun to try to communicate a kind of beginning, middle, and end of something in a very finite short amount of time.
Can you guys imagine the multiverse where Kubrick just was working for Procter and Gamble or some other huge company and just making commercials.
One let's best, let's write one. Let's do it. I'm not kidding. Let's let's write Stanley Kubrick ad somehow Well, okay, so these people, these journalists and researchers who do read something in the tea leaves or feel that they have divined something beyond the surface story of these films. They argue that his films are just a message leading to his larger, secret great work, which I know is a
loaded term. They argue that Stanley Kubrick participated in some of the world's most insidious cover ups, and that this participation later tortured him so much so, in fact, that he hid clues to the truth in his own work. Here's where it gets crazy. First and foremost and most well known conspiracy involving Stanley Kubrick is.
What the moon landing that never was?
Was? This was? Yeah, no human beings ever actually landed on the Moon, they say. Instead, the US government secretly contracted with Stanley Kubrick to film a fake moon landing of high enough quality to fool the world, and then swore him and everyone else involved to secrecy on pain of death.
Well, that's obviously true. Let's move on. Now there's more to parse out here.
We can tell you how the story began to circulate. So it began being taken seriously by people after Stanley Kubrick's death. This was not around when he was alive, and the most prominent mentions we can find someone seriously alleging this come from a writer and director named Jay Wadner, who began publicizing what he saw his clues supporting this concept, and we can dive into this. We do want to warn anyone who hasn't seen The Shining for some reason,
go watch it now. This is going to examine in detail aspects of The Shining.
It's not major spoiler territory, but there are a couple of spots that are troublesome.
But surely both the movie and the book are well beyond the statute of limitations.
Sure spoilers at this.
Point, but The Shining is one of those movies that even if you haven't seen it by now, you should see it before anyone spoils it.
Absolutely, but you probably also know the stories I read. You know it's so it's almost a trope. It's almost an agglomeration of tropes at this point. But still, I guess we should do the countdown for spoilers.
Forty thirty nine.
That's that one about the dude that plays piano and kind of loses his marbles.
Yep, that's the one. I know what you're talking about. I can't think of the act.
It's called Shine, Jeffrey Rush's first big picture.
Nice spoilers Jeffrey Rushes and Shine. Yep, if that's if that was if that was the question you wanted answer to him.
Here's a spoiler for Shine. His father.
His father's father breaks his violin, and that dad makes him into a bitter old man, turns him into a penis.
No, it does so. Fact of the Shinen with an I N G in Jesus assessment Jack and Danny Torrance. The dad and the son represent different aspects of Kubrick himself. So Danny is the gift, youthful, idealistic director who's in tune with a greater message. Danny in the story is psychic, and so symbolically that's Kubrick being capable of seeing things no one else can see. Danny also has a knact
for telling people things that should ordinarily be kept quiet. Jack, on the other hand, the father is the quote practical, pragmatic guy who wants to be a great artist, and he's apparently willing to do anything to accomplish his goal of becoming a writer. So to support this, j cites several perceived physical similarities Jack's practice of smoking Marlborough's the same kind that Kubrick smoked. To the earlier point about his appearance, he says Jack looks unkempt, unshaven.
As the film progresses, he begins looking more and more like the behind the scenes footage of Cubrick Kubrick and yeah, it's I mean, it is interesting.
Kubrick also was known to carry an axe around set. Yes, wave it wildly if people to get them to do what.
Shelley Duvall get back over here when I say action.
Go true story. He never used the door knob, only access his whole life.
You have like a metal phobia, like.
You Ben he Uh you know, maybe he just had a pro axe thing. Okay, uh, yes, yes, uh. The he does look unkempt, and you see this in the behind the scenes footage He and Jack Nicholson playing Torrents become increasingly I don't want to say decrepit, but wild looking. And the Overlook Hotel in this reading represents America. It's shiny, it's wealthy, but it is built upon blood and terrible, terrible secrets.
We talked about the baking powder cans.
Yeah, Calvi it comes in a little bit later, but that's something we can touch on now.
Well, I only mentioned because Ben talks about how it's built on blood money and then.
Well they mentioned in the film, I believe that built like an Indians.
When they're when they're doing the tour, he says, we had to repel several Indian attacks while we were building this place, which.
Is just such a throwaway line in there too, it makes it more sinister.
But visually, there's a whole like crazy stockpile of calumet baking soda or powder that has the you know, the traditional Indian chief headdress, very conspicuously turned towards the camera.
Isn't that right case, Well, it's in profile and uh. And it's also Hallerin who was giving the tour of the of the kitchen, is in the same profile as the Indians. So there's been some suggestion that Kuprick is drawing a parallel visually between you know what what happened historically to Indians and African Americans as well in the United States.
But to Jay, it's all about faking the moon landing. Yeah.
Yes, in this context, it's like, this is America, and here is the most important part, right, the the hotel manager.
Hm hm, or at least the first one we meet, right. He apparently represents the face of the American government. Where's red, white and blue. He has a US flag in his office. He sits in front of an eagle, the power behind the throne and the lunar lander of the Apollo eleven mission,
Jay notes, was called the Eagle. Oh, the deal that Jack makes with this manager, he can pursue his creative interest so long as he takes care of the Overlook, and the manager tells Jack his main job is to prevent the Overlook Hotel from looking like it is decaying.
Yeah, and here we're talking about America again. If we taken in the context that he sees it in that we're going to need you to fake this thing so it doesn't look like we are the decaying force within these Cold War powers, which is another big thing here.
Yeah, there we go. Okay, So the storm that hits the Overlook is, again, according to Jay, representative of the Cold War between the USSR and the US. This Cold War and efforts to hide real American technology. Flying saucers, in his opinion, are the primary motivations behind the faked moon landing. The Torrance family then in America and Kubrick are trapped in the Cold War. Uh, there's they call
it pregnant. Yeah, there's a there's another thing that goes that ties into the Native American artistic motifs, right, that are all throughout the Shining Uh in the room where he where Jack is attempting to write and going crazier and crazier and throwing that tennis ball. The wall has this Native American motif that, according to j looks like a bunch of rockets about.
Oh yeah, watch well, you know there is and there's also so much Native American just imagery. And sure there's so many symbols within the hotel. You look at the carpeting in certain areas and I just really quickly, I'd love to ask Casey if do you think there's any salt to that reading of this film that perhaps the overlook is in some way the United States.
I think there's something to it. Yeah, I don't.
I don't necessarily buy into the whole Kubrick is guilty about the moon landing and he's kind of addressing that in the Shining. But I do think there is something to the idea that the Overlook Hotel standing in for the United States and the film in some ways being about the past kind of continuing into the present and kind of never truly being gone.
I think it's a loop the way it's depicted in the film, like, yeah, the spoiler alert. But you know Jack, he's always been there, He's always been the caretaker.
Well you notice, like at the end of the film, when when you see that picture of Jack Nicholson on the wall with all the people in like nineteen twenty one, I think it is Yeah, it's July fourth, It's like the fourth of July.
Ball Oh yeah, dun, dun, dun.
And my whole thing is, why wouldn't Kubrick do this for funzies? You know, It's like it seemed like an odd choice for me anyway, to make like this horror movie. It's nothing he'd ever done before. It just seemed like kind of out of left field. It makes sense to me that he would have kind of not an agenda, but some twist on it that would make it a little more fun for him than just doing a traditional you know, straight up horror film.
Yeah, straight up horror film.
Yeah. I think that's a good point. So j W would agree with you, and people who think it's about the moon Landy would agree with you. Back to a tennis ball. When those ghost twins throw the ball to Danny, he stands and for the first time in the film we can clearly see his sweater it's a rocket with the words Apollo eleven. So in crudely beneath that's a smoking gun for the proponents.
Yeah, and he says, we the viewer gets to see the launch of the Apollo eleven rocket as he's you know, ascending from sitting down.
Yeah, And look, I don't want to write this stuff off entirely, but there are some inaccuracies with his reading. So in the original version of The Shining Danny experiences this horrible psychic event in room two seventeen. In the film, this occurs in room two thirty seven. Jay argues that the average distance between Earth and the Moon is two hundred and thirty seven thousand miles, and that this change
in room numbers is an allusion to this idea. However, the actual average distance from Earth to the moon is more like two hundred and thirty eight eight hundred and fifty five miles and that's that's per Nassa.
Oh, but you know he's working with net right.
That was waiting for someone to say that. Yeah.
So it's been suggested that it was more to do with the hotel not wanting their real room two three or two one seven to be uh, you know, for people to be like scared of staying there. The hotel that they used as the exterior of the hotel in the film. A lot of the interiors are on a set.
Isn't that the isn't that an Oregon?
Yeah?
Yeah, I think something Timberline lodge.
Yeah, someone told me it was.
I have a hat from there. I've got at the Portland Airport.
I may have talked about it on the show before, but someone pointed out that that in fact.
Was the place that was used as that as the overlook in the in the movie.
And in another kind of really weird coincidence, the hotel that Stephen King had stayed at that kind of gave him the idea in the first place to write the book is called the Stanley Hotel.
Oh, nice coincidence probably, And Stephen King notoriously not a fan right Rubrick's film.
It was very different.
It was very different, and I think that really supports the idea that Kubrick was having a little having a bit of fun.
Was doing something. In addition, yeah, which I think is an important point, So did J and people who agree with him. Room two thirty seven represents the symbolic set on which the Apollo eleven landing was faked, and he believes that, due to the nature of shifting perceptions of reality in the room, that as Dick Hollerand said, nothing
in the room is real. And the fact that Jack later lies to his wife about it, Wendy claiming he saw nothing in the room, is interpreted by Jay to mean that Kubrick lied about faking the moon landing and then said, Hey, what's the best way to tell people about this? I should make the shining.
You should have a woman in a bathtub become very old, very fast, all of a sudden. Yeah, that was good, That's what I would do.
I got chills.
So that's a really scary scene.
Is so much.
I don't find the shining particularly scary overall, but that scene sticks with.
Me when I do when I do a lot of research. I actually play low fi chill wave instrumentals and the Shining on mute, and it makes it makes it a different film, and it's actually great.
Speaking of that, have you seen the funny spoof trailer for The Shining with featuring Peter Gabriel Salisbury Hill.
And it's just like makes it look like a total rom com.
It just just goes to show that it's so easy to reframe things with music and just clever cutting, and it's like Shining.
Yes, So he has some other things for people who believe that the moon landing was faked. Rubric did it and told us about in The Shining point to other small details like casey like you said with July fourth, which I had no idea, and that that's fascinating. I have to go back and watch it again. And then here's what I thought you guys would find interesting. You know, he's typing in the manuscript, he's going crazy, and he just writes over and over again in different formats. All
work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. According to j that should actually be read is not all work but a eleven work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. Oh, come on a eleven standing for of course Apollo eleven. I think we've solved it.
Wow.
Well, I mean, look, I don't want to throw I don't want to throw spurs at ja JW. But it you know, that's reading into things pretty hard.
But there are some recurring Apollo eleven themes in the movie. But it was also very much in the the consciousness of the time. You know, the sweater, the rocket pattern and stuff.
You know he does he does throw out a quick reference in a clockwork orange. Also there's a character who's talking about man on the moon and.
Yeah, yeah, but think about how again, just what you guys said, how massive that is in the zeitgeist from that moment forward and then had a decay rate to the point where we still are interested in talk about it.
Literally one of the top five moments in human history. And I don't know which which one it is. I'm just being conservative. I don't want to say it's the best one, because have you get I saw an amazing tuba solo video a while back.
Man, you sent it to me and I have yet to crack it open.
My guy, I should apologize. I get a little fixated, myopic and I think I texted numerous people during the day.
This It just said all caps Tuba solo and then yeah, so it was you know, you couldn't really mistake it for anything.
It's great, though, Okay.
Can we get do the most? My favorite thing about all of this theory, and it's the thing that kind of solidifies it for me because I understand, as Casey and we were all saying before the America symbol as the overlook, and this deal that's being made that with
the main character that subsists, it's all. It has always been there and it will always be there if you if you look at it again, all those things together, this deal that they make, could it be that this is Stanley Kubrick making a deal with the American government in that hotel office that sets up the entire thing, the entire world in which Kubrick then exists. I mean to me that I can totally see. I can totally see that.
Yeah, you know what you're you are persuading me here, Matt. It's still something people debate. I mean, unsurprisingly not everybody agrees. Yeah, right, but.
I don't fully agree. But it's this is one of those I want to believe things.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, we still have to get those posters. How many did you say it was too many? Thirteen? Fourteen? Yeah, thirteen, Okay, so we'll only get twelve. There's another piece of intrigue that emerges around the shining in twenty fifteen or so, clips of someone purporting to be Stanley Kubrick's surface, and in these clips, the subject appears to take credit for faking the moon landing. He calls it his masterpiece, he
totally owns it, and says that he filmed it. However, critics note that several parts of the interview strongly call the authenticity of the footage into question.
Yeah, it doesn't look like Stanley Kubrick. It doesn't sound like Stanley Kubrick.
Yeah, it's probably not Stanley Kubrick.
They said. The interview occurred in May of nineteen ninety nine, after he had already died.
Yeah, and you can hear the guy who's doing the interview refer to the person purporting to be Stanley Kubrick as Tom and saying, Okay, Tom, let's do it this way so that I think we can dismiss. Additionally, his daughter, Kubrick's daughter, Vivian Kubrick strongly objects to these claims, and she dismisses them outright. We have a statement that she released on Twitter regarding this.
V coup one one one what v I ku?
And then four ones, and you can read that in full. It's pretty well written. It sounds very reasonable. One line that we all thought you would really enjoy is where she says there are many very real conspiracies that have happened throughout our history and are happening presently. I'm only too aware of the dreadful manipulations perpetrated by government, secret services, banksters, the military industrial complex, et cetera. But claims that the
moon landings were faked and filmed by my father. I just can't understand it. How can any one believe that one of the greatest defenders of mankind would commit such an act of betrayal.
I think Vivian would really like our show.
I hope.
So, yeah, she'd be into it, Thanks Casey. I follow her on Twitter side. She really posts a lot of conspiratorial stuff.
Guess what boys follow?
Oh no, it's official, Matt.
That's it's not a full endorsement because she I think she posted some kind of problematic stuff sometimes.
Too, well, we're gonna follow in anyway because.
She ain't no follow back girl.
Oh that's just because I was worth it. But of course there are alternate interpretations of the Shining. There's this great documentary called Room two thirty seven came out in twenty twelve. I remember we all talked about it at work. That examines other analyzes of the work. And here the
big ones. This is one that we mentioned earlier. The Shining is about the genocide of Native Americans, and as Casey No pointed out, there is a ton of imagery right and purposeful framing of shots to support that idea. Other people will say, yes, it's about genocide, but not the genocide of Native Americans. It's about the Holocaust. And then of course someone will say no, the Shining is about faking the moon landing. Someone will say no, the Shining is a retelling of the minotaur myth.
Okay, is there is there a maze in the book?
No, No, they're they're just hedge creatures. That's one of the one of the big big changes.
And also in the in the book, the Overlook Hotel explodes because the kid manages to set the boil boiler off. Yeah right, and it was the first time I learned the word dasn't.
It's one of the.
Last things that possessed Jack Torrets is screaming as his ghost riddled.
Body dies, some kind of witchy word.
It's like, it's like you dare not.
Oh, it doesn't. Interesting.
It was very interesting. It doesn't dare kazoo zoo. Have you seen the Exorcists? The name of the demon in Exorcist too, it's bazoo zoo. That's all.
We are not getting the spoilers out.
Hey, you know what we didn't mention what's that? Because I don't agree with any of the stuff you guys are talking about. I think the shining is an allegory for leaving or leaving the gold standard.
The decline of the gold stage. Yes, that's another thing people have argued. The filmmaker of two thirty seven, Rodney Ashton, I believe his name is, he personally doubts all of these interpretations. And there are a couple of other things that weaken the idea of this moonlanding concept just based on the film. Prior to the writer j W's claims, there were two guys who proposed the idea as a
joke on the internet. And then there was a mockumentary that I think we've all seen in this room, A Dark Side of the Moon, which is almost a Christopher Guest style look at the faking of the moon landing.
No, I haven't think I even't heard of this.
It's pretty funny, it's pretty good. Problem is it was often taken seriously and people will cite it as evidence.
Yeah, it's like that vampire documentary what we do in the Shadows. I mean, that's great, It's it's real, and people think it's just a documentary. It's the inverse I guess of this.
Yeah, that's a good contrast there, Matt.
So, I'm not sure what you guys are doing here.
Okay, I think we're going to a commercial break.
Okay, let's do it.
We're back. So there's another conspiracy of play here that we we mentioned at the very top of the show, but we didn't really dig into Stanley Kubrick and the Illuminati aka Eyes Wide Shut, the last film he made or almost finished making, right depending on your interpretation, and one that really freaked a lot of people out.
Yeah, I think largely because it's the only film to feature Nicole Kidman wiping her bum?
Oh is that what?
Yep?
Well it yeah, that was the original title. I think the only film.
I was wiping her bum?
The only film featuring Nicole Kibben wiping her bum.
Well, it's a Darryl Yes, Nicole wiping her bum. Aside, there are a lot of things that have been brought up before that perhaps this movie had to do it. The first one that I read had to do with Scientology and whether or not this whole film was kind of a jab at the This is not me speaking, This is other people speaking. The cult like similarities or the cult like things that Scientology has within it. Tom Cruise, well, that's the well again.
Like also, Vivian Kubrick, who we've talked about, is now a Scientologist.
Yes, And the people online will purport that this is Stanley Kubrick fighting against it, as like you've taken my daughter and I'm very upset. I'm making this whole movie exposing you. However, she did not join Scientology until after, at least at the very very tail end of production on this film.
So the timeline's a little tough.
Yeah, if you're talking about a man writing a film sure, and then coming up with the shots for it and all this it doesn't line up, but having Nicole and Tom as the lead characters interesting connection there.
Perhaps, perhaps weren't you telling us off air that there's this idea of Kubrick making Eyes Wide Shut just to put them through the ringer?
Well, I mean that's been purported by several articles, don't Casey. I don't know if you've heard anything about this.
But there's like, there's one scene in Eyes Wide Shut that feels a little bit weirdly out of place. It's where Tom Cruise is kind of walking the streets of you know, the backlot version of New York that they built in England at night by himself, and he passes these kind of like frat guys and they don't get out of his way and they bump into him and they kind of like start yelling kind of homophobic stuff
at him. And there has been some suggestion that that scene was in there almost as Kubrick's potential commentary on Tom. You know, there's been rumors for years about about Tom Cruise, so you know, just just not even so much Kubrick falling down on one side or the other of that whole thing, but just kind of I don't know, prodding Tom Cruise and like the control of his image and all that kind of stuff.
But isn't Also isn't Kubrick very well known for putting all actors through the ringer? Yeah?
Yes, yes, well, and also Scatman Crothers, who plays hallerin in The Shining, tells a story about having to do some line of dialogue like hello or something like a hundred times and finally kind of crying out and exasperation, mister Kubrick, what do you want? And you know, Kubrick just saying I'm just waiting to get it right, or you know, just just keep trying it.
Yes, toast of line.
Well, but it goes, it goes much much deeper than that. There's there's a there's an article in Vanity Fair that discusses specifically how Kubrick pushed the relationship of Nicole Kidman and Tom Cruise on set and offset there was this fairly very short sex scene between Nicole Kidman's character and some other man, and Kubrick barred Tom Cruise from being on set and they shot it for like six days and it's this tiny little sex scene Tom Cruise was
not allowed to be told anything about what was happening. Again, this is his wife, right, and that's that's one of those things that almost I can see him as a director trying to unsettle both of them on purpose, right, test their marriage because in the movie they're married, and
then he's testing their actual marriage. And he would have them sit down and do essentially therapy with Stanley, with the three of them together in a room and talk about their actual marital problems, and then that into the movie.
Well, and I made the joke about the bomb wiping thing earlier not to keep harping on.
That, but that sort of fed into that too.
The idea that he made them kind of behave in in the scene as as a married couple, would you know, and go about their business and kind of having gotten past that honeymoon period where you're gonna, you know, take a pee with the door open and not worry that your husband's standing right there.
You know. These are these are two of the most powerful and famous actors in all of Hollywood at the time at the time that he that he is kind of toying with And I wonder how much of that is him, Like I don't know, just really exercising the power.
Yeah. But also at this time, you know, he's a he's already a legendary director. So he's kind of like at the level in the terms of directing, he's kind of like at the level Prince was in terms of music. People just don't say no to him. Yeah, except after his death. So he The big question about Isa Wide Shut, right, is he purposely torturing the actors like a cat with a mouse? Is he fighting against scientology using the language
of symbolism. The thing you'll find perhaps most curious if you have seen as Wide Shut before, or if you are not too familiar with the story you want to dive into it. The thing you might find most curious is that many people argue about the cut of the film.
Yes, the final cut right right.
Kubrick's contract had some hard lines preventing studios from editing his work without his consent. Again, he's still the same very hands on director he was back in the fifties. The essentially going through the legal eese. His position is it's done when I say it's done, and then when I say it's done, it's definitely done. No studios intruding don't tell me to put in a new actor or some dumb scene with a talking dog. I run the show.
And that that carried through even to the marketing of his films. He designed all the posters himself, he cut all the trailers himself, and he was heavily, heavily involved in selling the movie even after he was done working on it.
So then he after his untimely death, these critics and researchers wonder whether the cut that premiered in theaters was the actual final cut he won it. So were there scenes that might have been left out without his consent or altered? I mean, what gives casey?
Yeah, well, yeah, so there there is some truth to this in a certain sense. I mean maybe it goes deeper if you if you buy into that theory, but you know, just sticking to like what is definitely known to be definitely true. Kubrick was contractually obligated. Even though he had final cut, he was still contractually obligated to
deliver an R rated film for the US market. And since he died, you know, just as he had kind of finished his final cut, he never had a chance to kind of go back and forth with the MPAA over that rating once they did deliver an NC seventeen because of some of the nudity and the orgy sequence.
Oh yeah there are there are orgies, yes, just just.
Kind of one big one. But that, uh.
One is to assume there have been multiple.
Yes, yes, yeah, yeah, it's it's a it's a recurring event. But uh so, you know, they were they were kind of in a real predicament because there's so many people that are clamoring to see like the final master work of this legendary director, and they can't release it into most theaters the way in NC seventeen works in the
United States. It's it's a real problem commercially. So what they arrived at as a compromise was that they use CGI to put these kind of ridiculous looking, very static, very like Uncanny Valley esque nude figures standing with their back to the camera in front of the more explicit action. And in this way they didn't have to actually alter like the rhythm of the cutting or reshoot anything. But
it absolutely stands out. I mean, nineteen ninety nine, the state of creating those kinds of you know, post production human like figures was not great.
Yeah, still not super great even know if you saw Rogue one, but yeah, grand Moth Tarkian or whatever. Yeah, totally took me out of that movie. Man, that Uncanny Valley effect is alive.
And well, and so they but in Europe they did get the unfiltered unaltered version right away. And now if you buy the movie on Blu Ray in the US or DVD or probably streaming, it's it's also the unaltered version.
It is not like as an option like it is.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think it just defaults to it. It doesn't even I could be wrong about that, but I think it is.
So what was being covered? Is it like penetration?
Yeah, yeah, it's like people on a table and you can kind of see what's going on. So there's like people kind of standing in front. I mean there's there's really nothing like super graphic about any of it, but it you know, it doesn't leave a whole lot to the imagination.
Probably nothing that we haven't already seen in like films like Caligial Efforts.
Oh for sure. Yeah.
It wasn't like there were all these rumors when he was making the film that it was like going to be triple X rated and it was like the most explicit thing. Ever, and then when the film actually came out, I think most people were kind of like, this is like way more tame than we were told to expect.
It's because they cut out the puppet love making scene they're going to be in there.
Which was the original second title of the film. Yeah, puppet love making scene by Stanley Kubrick. So there's one other elephant in the orgy room here, and it is the Illuminati.
Yeah, the masks and the robes and the rituals the idea.
The idea is that Kubrick, by way of being in the entertainment industry, got embroiled in a massive global Free Mason Illuminati conspiracy, and he devoted much of his career to referencing this through symbols and codes. Just like the moon Landing Shining argument, which is that Kubrick made the shining as sort of insurance to save his life from
this cabal. The eyes wide shut Illuminati argument says that he while he was always pushing the envelope, he actually crossed the line for this secret of cabal when he depicted specifically trauma based mind control, similar to concepts that explored in things like Project Monarch and other related theories, and that instead of Kubrick passing away after turning in the film, he was assassinated.
HM.
So one of the big questions that I think we should ask about this concept is if this group is so powerful and if they were so worried that they killed him after he turned in the final cut, where were they when he was filming the thing?
Well, it took Casey, correct me if I'm wrong. I think it took like eighteen.
Yes, it was very very long shoot. And when you consider that, you know, Tom Cruise and Nicole Kimmon are both like extremely in demand actor at that moment, and even now you know, for that matter, they they really had to kind of shut their lives down and just like dedicate everything to being on this shoot and.
Miss out on a billion dollars worth of probably right right, Well, it is interesting though when you think about some of the things, at least that I was reading in that Vanity Fair article about the weird ways of shooting, Well they were they would shoot Tom Cruise on a set with essentially green screar or projected images.
But yeah, rear rear like old school rear projection. For in the UK for weeks Yeah, like.
Just get that one shot of him walking around and just forced Tom Cruise to do that for weeks. And it makes me wonder if he's kind of if this theory holds true, that he's kind of obfuscating what's actually going into the movie and what's actually what the symbols that he's showing. Ok, maybe that was a strategy.
Like a red herring false trails.
Yeah, maybe, I don't know.
There's like a dreamlike kind of feeling that he's trying to convey. And even though he does have like second unit photography happening in actual New York, when you look at the movie, it doesn't really feel like New York. It kind of feels like a dream idea of what
New York is. And Yeah, I don't know. I'm kind of tempted to think that it was less about like putting Tom Cruise through the Ringer for the heck of it, and probably more down to just you know, technical perfectionism of Kubrick's part to have it not feel like just a bogus effect shot or something.
Gotcha.
So this is by and large where the conversation about eyes Wide Shut lives. We do know that Stanley Kubrick was no stranger to conspiracy theories on his own. There's a famous scene in Doctor Strangelove where he mentions fluoride.
Oh yeah, talking about the flooride o case. You don't happen to know a quote or anything, do you.
I'm trying to think about the floor. The one that I'm thinking of is to and I women in my essence.
But I think in this one they're having a discussion about fluoride in the water.
I believe, Yeah, yeah, I do remember that.
That is Yeah, I have a quote here that might be helpful. I'm not gonna do the voice, but it's it's.
Is it a conversation?
Yeah?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Man.
Drake, do you realize that, in addition to Florida eight and water, while they are studies underweight to Florid eight, salt, flour, fruit, juice, soup, sugar, milk, ice cream, ice cream, Man Drake, children's ice cream?
Oh oh, Jack, you.
Know when fluoridation first began? I h nineteen hundred and forty six, nineteen forty six, Man Drake, How does that coincide with your post war commie conspiracy? Huh? It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual, certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore commie works.
That's a pretty classic scene from the film. We don't know for sure Stanley Kubrick's personal thoughts on fluoride, but we do know his personal thoughts on the concept of extraterrestrial intelligence.
Oh yes, we found an excerpt from Playboy Magazine, the Triple excerpt. Oh, actually, I think around that time it's probably like Double X.
Maybe Playboy was never Triple X.
They've always Yeah, soft god, I'm really demonstrating my knowledge.
NOA, would you like to regale us with some of that?
Boy? Would I?
Nineteen sixty eight. By the way, Playboy Magazine, Stanley Kruper two thousand and one of Space Odyssey has just come out.
I'm gonna do my Kubrick voice.
Extraterrestrials may have progressed from biological species, which are fragile shells for the mind at best, into immortal machine entities, and then, over innumerable eons, they could emerge from the crystalis of matter transformed into bings of pure energy and spirit that doesn't really, I.
Don't know irons, Yeah, I can't.
I can only do evil.
These beings would be gods to the billions of less advanced races in the universe, just as Man would appear a god to an ant.
So here he's talking specifically about the possibility of extraterrestrial intelligence existing. He's not saying they exist here we've taken an excerpt, but yeah, he's just postulated on what it would be like.
And he makes a point which is actually pretty flattering for us when you think about it. He makes the same point that we made in previous episodes, which is that the idea of inorganic life forms being the successful explorers of the stars is a little more likely than organic life forms.
Yes, and he even gets into that.
The important point is that all the standard attributes as signed to God in our history could equally well be the characteristics of biological entities who billions of years ago were at a stage of development similar to man's own and evolved into something as remote from Man as Man is remote from the prime ordial ooze from which he first emerged.
That was a great I mean.
Yeah, that's great, and just a great job, great thought. I know, I know that's an agglomeration of other people's thoughts in a way from Stanley Kubrick. But still it's well well told.
Would you say it's well framed? Sorry, guys. Well. In conclusion, first, we know this episode ran a little bit long, but we hope you enjoyed it as much as we have today. In conclusion, there's no question that Kubrick's work lends itself to a vast array of interpretation. That's the thing about
interpretations of works of art. Interpretations are not necessarily mutually exclusive. Absolutely, and ultimately, it could be argued that all works of art belong to the audience perceiving them in terms of the meaning, right because once the artist is dead then they have no real say, which is a very controversial point. I used to hate it when my professor's pointed that out.
Well, especially if you're an artist that just wants to allow your stuff to speak for itself, and you don't want to be talking to press all the time. I don't want to have to go through every little frame and say this is what this means. I'm teaching you. I'm telling you how to read my films, and you're not doing it. Get out of my sight, I'm going back to the UK right.
And the intensely symbolic nature of the stories Kubrick specifically tells arguably communicate to the audience on a semi or subconscious level, accessing those primal archetypes cited by people like Carl Jung or Fraser, the author of The Golden Bow, or Joseph Campbell, and again that Cormack McCarthy article I probably already post on here's where it gets crazy, but we're posting it again. By golly, by gum, it's worth it.
In the case of the Shining and the moon landing theory, the interpretations do honestly seem pretty subjective but fascinating and compelling. Problem is some inaccuracies poke holes in the case. As for the idea of a secret cabal functioning behind the scenes, pulling the strings of industries, religions and governments across the world, well, the entertainment industry certainly does have a version of that. They are called producers.
Oh burn all your producers out there, And this is one thing I just wanted to speak to Casey as well about this. In general, there is a frenetic pace that's inherent in the filmmaking process, where I don't know if any of you out there have had the experience of being on a set of any kind of either
for a student film, a school project. Maybe you've worked on a big production before, but if so, you know that there are major changes that occur to everything from the script to the set dressing, to the camera angle that that's going to be used in the lens, and everything in between. It happens in real time when you have a director with a vision who is seeing something that isn't necessarily written down.
Oh absolutely right, yeah, yeah, I mean, and again the reason that Kubrick needed eighteen months to shoot Eyes Wide Shut, which if you watch the final film, it's kind of baffling how it could take so long to shoot it because it's a lot of like simple interiors and a couple people in a room talking. But it is because exactly that that he wanted to be able to try things this way. Do a scene here, do a scene there,
you know, change the location, change the lighting. There were even actors that dropped out because they couldn't keep doing the movie, so some stuff had to be reshot in that way. So I mean, he he very much like looked at. He prepared his films meticulously, but he still they were like very much kind of living documents that he was making when when it came time to shoot them.
And if you want to just to see an example of this, there's a great clip on YouTube where you can see behind the scenes shining footage where you can see Kubrick actually making these decisions about how to get the shot with Jack Nicholson standing at the door talking to his wife and this really low angle shot that he's just kind of messing around. As they're hanging around trying to figure out how to frame the thing. Sanley gets down below and goes, oh, yeah, yeah, let's try this one.
Yeah, he's got the director's viewfinder and he lays down. He's just like, yeah, let's do it from here.
Yeah, I mean, And that kind of thing occurs in filmmaking all the time. And sometimes when you think about someone like Stanley Kubrick making these films that every moment is planned out in a notebook somewhere in a grimoire that he's got here on my plans, it probably isn't the way it worked out.
Unless it's Alfred Hitchcock. And then maybe because he always said, you know, and make my movie before the camera ever comes on.
And we should also we should also note that Alfred Hitchcock was a monster off screen to his talent at least yeah yeah, which I think one time, Casey, when we were shooting some video, I think I heard you say something like that too. All right, well, Casey Pegrim, thank you so much for joining us today on this show and imparting some of your Kubrick wisdom to us and the audience, and of course thank you, as we said, for tuning in. This is the end of today's episode,
but not our show. You can find us on Instagram, you can find us on Twitter, you can find us on Facebook.
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