Unpacking the Upfronts: How TV’s Big Week Reflected Broader Industry Turmoil

Right.

Shut it down. New York is a union down.

Oh, Sight, shut it down, New York. Oh shut it down.

New York is down. Oh it's right, shun it down, New York Union.

Welcome to Strictly Business, Variety's weekly podcast featuring conversations with industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm Cynthia Littleton, co editor in chief of Variety Today. My guests are my colleagues, varieties crack team of television and digital reporters and editors on the ground in New York.

Well, I would say it's it's a much more that the business is changing very quickly and the days of one and roses are probably over. These used to be very glitzy events where you could, you know, watch it for three hours, you know, listening to every every They used to fly in every celebrity from every show for a personal meet and greet, and he was there to serve you shrimp and lobster to your heart's contented afterwards.

The parts you're fading away.

The glitz is fading away because the entire business is being driven not by linear TV schedules but by digital streaming and concerns about how to get bigger audiences. These you know, the advertisers who buy TV want to get big audiences so they can reach thousands of people in one spoop. We not have to spend X number of dollars to get one person here and one person there. The big things to do that these days are sports

In comedies from eight to eleven. Now prime time is anyone's prime time.

You know, my primetime might be one in the morning when I said nothing to Dow versus my kid's prime time might be fioclotin afternoon. The networks have to adjust, and they are doing so by focusing more on streaming, more on algorithms, more on software, and more on technology.

It helps pinpoint where your commercial should go. Some of the creativities coming out of that.

And it's all about science and technology, and as such, it's not as exciting as it used to be.

Outside.

Yeah, that it was, you know, in my in my own limited experience, it was definitely more subdued than in years past. It definitely seemed like people were almost holding their breath. I mean, just again with everything happening with the writer's strike, and like you know, even though like Brian said, like you know, the fall schedule isn't necessarily the key component that it used to be, but I think there was a lot of people kind of wondering.

But it's just.

That's not you know, like he said that, that's not the glitzy stuff that people really like, you know, really want to see. I feel like, you know, there was a lot of really good response to some of the sports stars and people who came out, but it's just, you know, it wasn't quite as fun as when you have like actors and comedians kind of out there, like working the crowd and kind of having fun with it. So I think there was definitely the energy level was down compared to past years.

I mean two of Foxy shows they showed that dramas had no clips and no cast attached, just like goodttle montage, just a little video montage.

It could should feel like this, here's a feel for but.

You trust us it's gonna be great.

That's not that's not how you get prop and Dale will buy your shows.

But Brian, you're saying that even before the strike, you know, this season, the the glitzy shrimp cocktail festivities had been on the decline.

Well, Paramount pulled out before the strike happens. I mean that's I think.

I think this art last year where I think these shows are less import than the technology they need to serve commercial you know, they serve ads. It's not I used to tell you how, you know, adagans was all about you know, crazy spokespeople and funny spokes characters and jingles and you know, big stunts and they're still there. But it's just it's not it's about finding the right placement for your ad within with where.

With digital audiences and interactive technology.

This year, obviously with the strike it was different, but it seemed like early in the week they were very heavy with the picket lines. The first and biggest picket line of the week was NBC Universal.

It was the most high profile.

It was out of out front of Radio City. There were about two hundred people. They had some chance that were catchy and went with NBCU. And then it kind of noticed that it would get smaller throughout the week. As it went on, And I think one of the reasons for that isn't necessarily that the passion died off or like people, but what happened is the focus has gone from just like trying to make a statement in front of advertisers, they're shutting down a lot of productions.

From outside of an upfront.

You can make a statement and be in front of advertisers and be in front of cameras, but if a lot of the focus is actually on making these companies hurt, when they're just kind of trying to do their best to ignore you outside the upfront, the way you're actually attacking them and getting at them is shutting down these productions. So I think they were doing a good job of actually putting their resources towards where.

It was going to make the biggest difference.

So the strike was still there, the picket lines were definitely there, but it got smaller throughout the weekend.

I also want to ask you in terms of the mood, that truly the mood like after the event. Of course, the upfronts are an enormous amount of work for people. It's exhausting reading up to it and afterwards. But what would you say the executives, your contacts and the people executives, producers, what was the mood? I gotta believe, you know, it's kind of similarly unsettled.

Yeah, I'd say I'd say so for the again without naming any names, I mean, the few people that I spoke with, I mean, they almost just kind of seemed to be glad that they were done with everything. You know, it's kind of like, you know, we kind of have to be here for this. And again not saying specific companies, this happened to specific people, but just it was.

Very much they were very worried.

More so like it was almost like we're glad we got through this without anything worse happening than like, you know, like you didn't have like WGA members trying to storm the stage or something. I think they were just worried there's gonna be some kind of big, embarrassing public spectacle with their name attached to it, which obviously, you know, like the thing people fear most is a bad headline.

Talking to people after, they'd be like, we did it, we got through it. We finished the presentation that probably did not have a lot of talent in it those very sports or news focused, as Brian said, and just going through it and being like we hit the beast that we need to hit. It's over now and we can go to the party, or we can we did, we checked off the box, we did the presentation, we got it done, and now that's over.

Thank god. That seemed to be the opinion of a lot of different people.

Or if your fox, you can just reopen the bar, because they had the bar open and the presentation and they reopened the bar afterwards. That's a little mixed there.

They know, they know their audience. Yeah, Todd, we're talking obviously mostly about this past up front week, the week of May fifteenth, but I know you ventured out into the New fronts a number of times. That was due to a couple of you. What would you say? What would you say was the mood there? And what would how would you what was your impressions from what you gathered of the of the traditional broadcast upfronts, which of course include a lot more platforms.

Now the New fronts. Boy, they've really tried to make a COVID. It's it's just really penned the uh, the redheaded step child of the of the Upfront's big brother. So you know this this year. YouTube did a small presentation at the New Fronts earlier this month, but they, for the second year in a row, wanted to be part of the TV up Front Week, so they you know, had their event at Lincoln Center David Geffen Hall on Wednesday.

Hey, I'm a the NFL Fanfare and you.

Know, he said his candor marks and you know, try to get people excited about not just buying ads in Sunday ticket but in the live NFL games. But you know, The pitch from YouTube is you can buy football, you know in all of these different channels right on YouTube creators who they're going to send you know, they're sending mister Beast into the locker room of some of these NFL teams too, and he's got one hundred and fifty three million followers, so.

I hope they tell the players.

Yeah. The interesting thing to me, the takeaway that I had from YouTube was like, it's like YouTube. I mean, YouTube is like TV used to be. They have this tremendous reach. They have one hundred and fifty million viewers. Well that was in the month of December. Who knows how long they're watching or what they're watching, because you know,

But that is an interesting packaging those two things, like the old guard of old linear you know, basically linear cable but delivered virtually. Well, that segues into kind of my next to my next sort of theme that I wanted to talk about the cell. Did anybody we don't have to go net, we don't have to go upfront by upfront, but just your impression. Did anybody impress you in terms of how they sold themselves, how they either sold their wares or talked to advertisers about they all have.

I thought Disney probably did the best job. They just had a car hit sports. You want big audience, says here they are. Here's Peyton Manning, Here's Serena Williams.

Here's Mode Night Football super Bowls coming in twenty twenty seven. Then they segued into scripted, but everything that was sent with a streaming outlet. So FX's shows ron Kulu and Here's Marvel and here Star Wars.

On Disney Plus.

So even even their their scriptive stuff had a streaming component. So I think they hit sports news. Even the segment on local station, which I think is very unusual for the upfront. They had the New York w ABC anchors come out for a spot, which is I think almost unheard of at the upfront to have the local anchor talk for a while.

I thought Disney.

I think Disney knows this is what's selling right now, big audiences and.

Then precise strupped up through streaming. We don't need to talk about ABC or free Form or or FX. Let's as get them what they.

Want, which is audiences, big, big audiences, and then precision to follow.

And well, you gotta think that Netflix, for all their protests, are going to have to look at sports at some point. Exactly what you just said.

Don't even think about touching that dial. We'll be right back after this break. I hope that pause was refreshing, and now back to varieties upfronts round table. Jenny and Joe, what impress you? You guys know, you guys are so finger on the pulse of these fandoms. Do you think anything impressed you there, like any any new potential, anybody impressed you as like they get their fandoms, they know how to talk to their fandoms.

Well, I think it's like Brian said, I mean, I think Disney did the best job just in terms of spectacle at this sort of a thing. I mean, like you said, they had Serena Williams, they had Peyton Manning, they had you know, DeMar Hamlin came out to a standing ovation which I've never seen in an upfront.

Before go Bills.

Yeah.

But then just but then, since there wasn't really much scripted content to talk about given everything going on with the strike, the fact that they were able to bring out Kevin Figee Kathleen Kennedy to come talk about big upcoming Marvel shows like Secret Invasion, big upcoming Star Wars shows like.

Skeleton Crew, like The Acolyte.

And then the one that really got me was they had this incredible presentation for the FX show Showgun based on the book that's been that you know, that's a passion project of John Langrass that's been in the work at that network since twenty eighteen, and then they just had this huge thing with all these performers coming out in like samurai armor, having like this big mock sword battle going up through the aisleways onto the stage.

And I mean it's Disney.

I mean, so they can they can kind of afford to do something like that, But I mean, no one else came close in terms of the spectacle for something like that. I mean because I mean again, like I have a pretty good sense of like what's happening, like what's coming out in TV at any given time. I had completely forgotten about Showgun, you know, and now I'm like, oh yeah, check that show out when it comes out.

That was pretty cool.

But then that's the kind of thing upfront where it used to be known for how spectacle. This is why you buy with us, you know, these are the experiences that that everyone wants to hear about. We think to take a different world, and I think Disney had it, but many others did not.

Do you think Netflix would have been more interesting and impressive in person?

I do, especially for the first time. I think the other networks you can you.

Kind of know what you're gonna get with something the Fox and ABC, But Netflix, I.

Think the in person would have helped.

Especially they hand the Russale Brothers and Anthon some very big products coming out.

They have a lot in the can that that is probably there.

They are edge against the networks who are all worried about how much kind of has to lay everything right.

Yourn's out. Netflix has got a ton in the off thing Stranger Things Finale.

I mean, there's a lot of stuff there and I think I'm close and personal with the buyers, might have done more.

For them this year.

Well, one thing that I think Earners did do that that Disney did to and you know, not to continue to talk about Disney, but I appreciate the moments where they banked what they did have as news to give as news.

Right, So, like Joe said.

Having Kevin Draggy and Kathleen Kennedy be able to come out and announce premier dates or announce things in show first looks were the Discovery had a decent number of announcements too. They have two Food Network shows with Selena Gomez. That's something slashy that you can announce there and not everyone had a lot in the way of big announcements to make.

Like Fox, Fox got to say it's.

Losing time on one but p that you know, there weren't a lot of big moments. One thing I'll say, and this needs like a giant asterisk next to it because it wasn't an upfront but the SEW.

Really impressed me.

And it could be because it was Thursday and I was tired by the end of the week, but it was an exciting one to go to because so many people had the question of what is the CW when we've been waiting so long to hear Dennis Beller and Bradswords like actually sit down in front of press and answer questions about what they're.

Going to be And Joan and I had the privilege.

Of sitting down with them privately afterwards and talking to them, and I left that feeling like pretty impressed that they do have a plan and that it's not apparent immediately because they, like everyone else, have a very strike proof fallse schedule. It's very acquisition heavy, but they're in production on a lot of things, and they have a lot of stuff in development. I'm not going to say any of it because my colleague is not tracking it, but they did make me feel like we're we've all be

Like Jenny said, I mean I left that presentation thinking, like, you know, this actually in terms of delivering a profit, you know, to shareholders and like and like actually making this thing successful in the traditional sense of a business, this actually does make a lot of sense.

And then you just have to see where they take it beyond this.

I mean, you know, obviously the writer's strike is impacting everything, you know, and Brad Schwartz had this great line where he says, you know, people keep people keep knocking us for these cheap acquisitions, and he's like, first of all, these are not cheap acquisitions. Second of all, a good show is a good show. I mean, if it airs on if it aired in Canada prior to this, what's the difference. If it's a good show and people watch it, that's what we're supposed to be doing. We're supposed to

There is a whole world of television stations that sometimes gets very much lost in the in talking about global streaming platforms and all of our focus on network. A lot of the actual cold, hard cash that is made in television comes through local stations. And I think Next Star is a company I've been waiting for them to sort of you know, we keep waiting for the magical, like, what is the bigger thing that you're doing with this platform. I'm starting to realize that what the bigger thing that

Not to go off on a different cagent, but Casey Bloyse was one of the few executives who did make a statement about the writer's strike, like on stage and was like made a note of that. Mark Lazarus did it at NBCU as well, and they're not everyone did bring it up.

Not everyone talked about it.

But the people who did I also felt like that was good over all strategy to acknowledge it in some way and move forward, because if you didn't, it kind of made it more awkward because it was one of the beats that all of us, at least as journalists were waiting for in the room, and then if it didn't happen, it was weird. But yeah, we're in the discovery.

I'll weigh in.

Yeah, I thought maybe because my expectations were pretty low, but I thought Netflix did a pretty good job. I mean, Jenny identified immediately that they had they had queued up this sort of TV style fall announcement here or are some of your favorite shows coming back in the in this fall?

Right?

And I mean even though you know, again as we've been talking about, they don't sell a times, they don't sell time slots. They're selling they're not selling day parts, you know. There, and they had this really interesting I mean it's unique where they they will sell you on a day to day basis, on a country by country basis, the top ten titles in each of those markets. That's super interesting, and that's something TV networks can't really do right.

It sounds like they used the time to really showcase Okay, here's here here where Netflix, Here's how we're different.

Yeah.

I can't even imagine thinking about the human and machine learning that it's going to take to like monitor all those you know, advertising is about verification. Oh my god. At least at least there's some jobs coming, Brian.

Well, then they're working with Microsoft. So that's one of the other questions about, you know, for the for the business. When do they have to you know, bring that technology in house because and that dilutes you know, any earnings they're getting from it advertising, because they have to split it with Microsoft as their partner the one other thing, you know. So it's baby steps for Netflix, right, But in the in six months, it was interesting to see

I was open to duck out without you asking me.

No, I think in terms of what impressed me the most, I mean I still have to I hate to say it, but not I hate to say I should to that, but I mean Disney I think was the best, just because I mean, they've been around for so long. They're this massive legacy company. They have an incredible breadth of content. Like I said, they were really the only ones to have any big, like scripted content like spectacle to share with anybody.

I think they did it.

I think they really, you know, hit the nail on the head with that one in terms of other people. I think NBCU struggled a little bit in my mind, simply because I still think they're still struggling to define what the brand of Peacock is as a service, because you know, they showcase some of their new things, like they had this twisted metal show coming out with the Anthony Mackie pretty soon. They have some other things that have launched, but just haven't really seemed to connect in

It's Yellowstone. It's a paramount show.

So I still think they're struggling to kind of make audiences take that one as seriously and I was also very surprising to me, you know, given the obviously you know, I guess they have the rights deals are coming up. But they didn't feature any WWE talent really in the NBCU presentation, which surprised me just because it's such a it's such a huge part of the Peacock offering that they have this massive, you know, WWE library to share.

So I was a little surprised by at I think.

The ww folks are always so colorful, you know, they add a little sizzle exactly.

I mean, you have somebody come out, get put through a table, everybody claps. I mean, what's that's to love about that? But I did think I agree with Jenny about Warner Discovery. I think they definitely did it did a good job about kind of showcasing what they have coming, especially with the rebrand of HBO Max to Max.

I will close by thanking you, first of all, thank you for your impressions. You all being in the trenches are are invaluable. I will just close by saying that I am old enough to remember begging my parents to let me stay up to watch the original Showgun because that was the chatter on the playground Richard Chamberlain oomed the miniseries Business back then own.

I was not allowed to watch it.

I thought you were going to say you begged your parents to go to your first upfront.

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