Welcome to another episode of Strictly Business, the podcast in which we speak with some of the brightest minds working in the media business today. I'm Andrew Wallenstein with Variety. When the new animated series Space Jump premierees later this month, you won't be able to see it on a TV network or a streaming service. This show is powered by the blockchain, a new style of programming that counts my next guests as pioneers in this relatively new corner of
the entertainment space. John Attanasio and Luisa Wong are the co founders of the Web three story Studio Toonstar and if you want to know what on earth a web three story studio is mist Brown. How we are back in John atas you know and so long co founders at two Star. Thanks for coming in, guys.
Thank you for having as thanks for having us cool.
So I want to start by noting that, you know, sometimes when we hear about these new ventures doing something super cutting edge, people make assumptions like, oh, these you know, Johnny come late leads to Hollywood are trying to but you both have quite the resume, having worked on major franchises at various top studios, like Warner Brothers, Disney dream Work. So how did we get here? How did you get to this kind of cutting edge stuff?
You know? The way we got here is that so we we met at we met at Warner Brothers, and we were in the.
Digital media group there, and we were doing a lot of work really at the intersection of like technology and how tech was like impacting storytelling. And we you know, we saw on this will sort of like you know, rewind back to like early days of Web two, and we saw what was like we're actually on the team that we were talking about the benefits of like YouTube and sort of this new world and ecosystem where you know,
creators could directly connect with communities and tell stories. And so you know, that really opened our eyes to like, you know, this idea of that storytelling and the way you know, creators and fans connect was was changing.
Uh.
And I think the other thing that we noticed.
Was that when we looked at the world of animation, it still really felt like this a bit of like a private club. I mean, in the sense of it, it felt like it was the same people, whether it was like writers, showrunners, you know, voice talent, and and we didn't see enough you know, new new storytellers, whether it was like you know, new ideas, new new concept,
or just diversity of storytellers. And it was and that was always weird to us because like, you know, we were just like you know, we we call ourselves children of Saturday Morning cartoons.
Uh, you know, we just we just love the medium of animation.
We know how powerful it is in terms of being a story you know telling medium, but also how powerful it is in terms of building you know, franchise I P. And it just was weird just that more people didn't have access to to the medium.
Uh.
And so I think you kind of combined those two things of like what was happening you know in sort of Web two with this idea of like you know, sort of unlocking animation for a new breed of storytellers. And that really was the inspiration for starting tune Star. And that was you know, we got the enough you know, courage to leave the corporate nest and and and start the company. And at the highest level, like that's that's our mission is to build you know, original entertainment I P.
Using you know, we started out in Web two. Now we're using Web three, using new forms of technology to do it and really unlock you know, unlock animation for a new you know, a new generation of storyteller.
Well, I know it takes courage, but it also takes investment. And so Luisa, how are you guys able to get some pretty big investors to come in and back world this.
Yeah, I mean we so we have. We have some you know, pretty notable investors. Uh were our lead investor, Founder's Fund. We also have Snapchat as an investor, Great Craft and Baron Davis also one of our investors. And
you know, like we really among others. Yeah, and I think we really you know, it was it really took like building these like proof of concept cases to be able to like go out and demonstrate and show that you know, this is this is a category of like, you know, how do you build this like tech stock to be able to produce things in animation very quickly and be able to you know, district viewed that out into the marketplace. And at this time, at the at that time in which we were raising, you know, it
was very Web two centric world. And so we we basically built we self funded the kickstart to building the tech stock to then show that we had the technology to be able to do this like quick turn animation, and we ended up distributing all of these like little vignettes in Instagram, in Facebook and and and I think that's kind of like where it really really started to you know, kind of demonstrate that, wow, there's an appetite
for original animated content shorts in social media. And then at the time too, there was Musically, right the pre TikTok too to the world Musically, and we actually built as part of our tech stack this like live streaming animated live streaming technology, and we had this blue chicken named Poppy who ended up being this you know, very
big muser as they call them. And we had a live show on Musically that was getting you know, over one hundred thousand concurrent viewers you know on the show at the time, and that was that was huge And and I think that really kind of like moved us into you know, like a lot of notice. And that's really kind of where we had our first round of investment.
Yeah, that was like the that was like really the Yeah, that was like the the moment where venture you know that that yeah, that really took us you know, started the venture path and it was that you know o g her name, did you?
Yeah? Yeah, Poppy. So her name was Poppy and.
She was you know, she was one of the first, she was one of the first animated influencers in social media. Uh, and just she took off and and I think that I think that really helped. It helped validate our thesis of you know, hey, there there is you know, you can build these characters direct with communities in you know, using technology and sort of new forms of storytelling. And then I think to see the kind of audiences we were getting, you know, not only loving the character, but
interacting with the character in different ways. And again at that point it was like primarily through through social media. I think that really was a point where everyone's like, yeah, this, there's something there.
Yeah. Yeah.
So now we've got the background down. Let's fast forward to today where you know, later this month your is it third web three series is coming out in form of space Junk. So how did you get from this sort of social media driven model to what you're doing now, which sounds pretty different?
Yeah?
No, I mean so it's it's like, I think for us, like the way we talk about it is that there were things that we learned in the in the like, there were things that we learned and I think, uh, you know, capabilities and and you know, expertise, these competencies that we honed in the Web two world that are you know, very applicable to Web three. I think, you know, probably even more so potentially in Web three than they were in you know, in Web two and social media.
And I think, you know what happened is like, you know, we we we built this this you know, this production engine that you know can do high quality animation very quickly.
We have you know a lot of you know, we have had a lot of.
Reps building communities directly and large you know, these are large communities and on social media and they're highly engaged communities.
Uh.
And so we had that, you know, that part of the expertise. And then I think, you know, enter Web three and you know, we'll give you know, give a lot of you know, credit to to me Lacunas in our team because we saw, you know what they did with with Stoner Cats. So Stoner Cats that was actually the that was the the first animated UH series in Web three.
We were the you.
Know, and basically we came along partner with me La and then and her team, and we were part of their second animated series and we you know, we added first, like we actually we were The Gimmicks is the first community driven animated series in Web three, which is a
little bit different than than Stoner Cats. But we just saw what they were doing with that project and we're like, wow, this is like, you know, such a great idea in terms of like this new this new way to get fans involved in helping you know, being part of IP, but also this new sort of form of distribution where you can, as a creator have more control over your story,
over your IP, you have ownership over that. And to us, that was like, you know, that was very much aligned with sort of our DNA and our thesis when we launched the company. And again when we launched, Web three didn't exist, but we saw you know, and again this is rewind this is two years ago that we we connect did with them, uh, and so we're like, oh, this is great. We pitched Mila and thankfully, you know, she and her team came on board as you know, co producers for the project.
And that's that's.
Really you know, how how our our journey and Web three started. But I think sort of beneath all that was just this idea of like, yeah, these things that we've built are a great fit for Web three, and in fact, I think they position us, you know, they're even you know, they even position our company to do I would say, sort of next level type ipel ip building that we couldn't you know, that we couldn't do
in Web two. And so I think that's I think that was probably it where it's like, yes, this is a thing where it's just a great fit for what we've built. And then we built, you know, over i'd say, over the last two years, built very deep Web three
tech dev capabilities. So those are those are things around building protocols on blockchains, and you know, we built a social layer for the Gimmick, which was you know, we've we've been told was the for social layer and Web three and those are all sort of like tech dev capabilities that we've spent you know, the last two years building out.
Okay, so now let's pump the brakes for a second and give the most explain it to my audience, like their six explanation of what we even mean here in terms of you know, a Web three powered piece of entertainment. I know you've got the community layer and all that, but I'm six years old, deuisa, Explain to me how you know, I'm assuming Space junk isn't as simple as oh I watch it on streaming service X or TV network Y. So starting with where do I access this show?
And what are the things that make this different than what I might see on a linear network.
Sure, so in order to access the show, you simply go to the website Space Junkies dot xyz and when you're there, there's actually a button that says episodes, and you click on that and you'll be able to watch it. It's not gated, so our projects are not gated, so you do not actually need to own a token in order to simply enjoy the show. So you would be able to enjoy the show just like you would be able to on television. You just go to the website.
I don't pay, I don't know, do I watch ads?
No, Okay, it's there. So just so that experience I think will feel very familiar. You just go to that website and you'll be able to watch the episodes. And so that's, you know, very simple. So the next step is if you're like, hey, I love this show. Now I'm interested in exploring, like, so what does it mean
to become part of the community. So when you think about, you know, again the reference point of like how people usually consume their shows, they're like, oh my god, I I love you know, I love I love Harry Potter not not a show but a movie. But okay, so I love Harry Potter and I'm such a fan. Now, you know, as a fan, I start to seek out other experiences in that, you know, in that particular you know IP and so that's you know, that's what we've built into that website is come watch the show, you
love the show, you enjoy it. Well, okay, there are other experiences. Now go deeper, and the going deeper will be we invite you to come create with us. Like what we what we know to be the case in these a lot of these shows or like franchises, is that people love to be able to, you know, come in and you see like fan fiction being created. Well we've and that's usually kind of like this like secondary
layer that everyone kind of does on the side. Or maybe they'll like you know, go to other like apps or community boards and they'll just kind of do it on their own. Well, in this case, we've built that right into the actual experience. It's like, if you love it, come grab a token, come into the behind the scenes type of like experience layer. And now what do you
get access to? You get access to a lot of you know, discussions from creators and the people who voice it, you know, like the get to see like the making of And you also have the ability to create your own stories, create your own backstories to the token that you hold, because each token has you know, basically a unique set of attributes that you know invite you to now create a story with it.
But also monetization is coming in here. You are purchasing the n f T.
Yes, you're purchasing the n f T, and that almostly it's your past to have all of these other activities, right, so you're you're able to create and for that, for that, you also have the ability to jump into things like we the activities that some of them are a contests to be able to have your stories like voted on in the winners of that you know contest will be able to have their stories or their characters invited into
the main show. And that they'll be able to voice a character in the show and be a part of an episode and get IMDb credit in a production that you know stars John Heater, that stars Tony Cavallero. Like, that's a pretty cool entry point into an industry where it's pretty difficult to break in and to just simply have like you're name listed as part of the production in this you know, in this real you know show.
Now, is this the kind of thing because you know, obviously you're not alone out there, although not to crowded a space either in terms of people doing this kind of thing. But from what I've read and seen, uh, sometimes this model has to do with you, the viewer who has bought an NF Do you now have an ownership stake in this show? And is that this kind of model?
No?
Actually, so it's not an ownership stake in the show. So we're not we don't position this as you're not becoming an investor in the show. The show is fully funded, it's being produced, it's you know, the show's existence does not depend on the NFT holders to come in so that we pool enough resources in order to make the show. This is really more like this is really like becoming this like VIP fan base that has all sorts of
these like you know, really great perks in it. Right, So it's like like joining the Soho house, Right, There's there's some great perks of like you get access to this really great environment. You know, there's some concerts that are attached to it, you get to the the So it's really like that, It's like this, if you love the show, will come and be kind of like this next layer of a fan a supporter, and you own this token, and for this token, you really get to
go deeper into the creation process. Being a part of the show. There are you know, like benefits of maybe being able to you know, see things that maybe normally you would see at like a comic con panel, Like that's sort of like more direct interaction with creators really and and outside sort of even being able to vote on where the story goes. These are all ways in which you know, like that you know, the fandom, the VIP fandom sort of like interacts.
So the bottom line is you are basically getting this greater level of engagement than you would ordinarily.
Yes, when we come back and we'll talk a bit more about how this model works, will be back with John Atanasio and Zula.
We are back at the co founders of the web three story studio toon Star to getting into an interesting business model. Uh John, So, now that I know that I as the viewer, the fan and not an owner, I'm curious from the toon Star perspective, are you the owner? Are you the creator? Which how do you make money?
Yeah? Yeah, so yeah, from from an so a toon Star we are the owner along with you know, whoever you know is participating in the project. So you know, in the case of space Junk, it's you know we we we own it along with you know, John Heater and Tony Cavallero and and Dominic Russo, who's the creator of the world.
He's from he did work Aholic.
Yeah so yeah, so he he he created Workaholics and so he and and he's the creator of space Junk. Uh and and so you know the people that are you know, owners in that i P.
Or have you know a stake in that i P.
That's that that's you know, how we we've structured it. Now there there is this other sort of aspect to it where and you know this is I don't you know too abstract of a concept. But we we like this notion.
Of like we we talk a lot about like this idea of like nature versus nurture. And there's a little bit.
Of this idea with like you know, the like these tokens or n f T s where it's like there's like a rare you know, you get to saying and it's like rare, and it's like how rare is it? And that determines its value and that's okay, And that's a that's a fine sort of like you know concept.
That's how most people understand the n f T market.
Exactly exactly, that's how most people think about it. But but you know, and that's fine. And like you know, when we when we do stuff, there is inherent rare. You know, at least in the gimmicks the way we did it, there was inherent rarity in you know, some of the you know, the NFTs had like a you know,
different types of rarity. But there's this other aspect. We really like it, and it's really like the nurture part of it, and the idea there is like you know, allow the community, through your effort, through your creativity, through participation, you actually can can become part of the world, and and that's through something that you've done, So it's not a lot like, that's not a lottery ticket. That's actually you know, work and creativity that you've you've contributed to
the community. And we like that idea, and that's what we did with the gimmicks. That's the same thing we're doing with Space Shunk, where it's like you you have that you have that token, you can actually work your way in to the main canon. Because if you write a backstory or you create fan fiction that the entire community loves enough to vote you as like the coolest thing, then we'll actually bring that into the core canon of
the world. And now all of a sudden, you do have a piece of of you know, what's being created. So it's it's basically we've created this opportunity for the community to earn their way in to sort of the
core cannon. And we just love that concept because it is like, you know, it's not just again, it's like it's through people's sort of effort and merit, and it's also through like these really cool and different ways to participate, which we just think, you know, we just feel like audiences today behaviors changed, and there's an expectation to engage more with content and stories and participate in different ways.
And that's certainly, you know, prevalent in younger generations, but I think that's also you know, older generations have sort of learned that too a lot through sort of like have been trained through social media. But we see that as a trend, and I think for us, it's like, all right, how do we sort of lean into that and give the community those kind of you know, those kind of opportunities.
So I get what you're saying in theory, going back to the economics of what you're doing. I wonder, when you're hatching brand new IP and you're doing it at a place that is not a destination like a streaming service, how are you able to get enough people in the tent to experience all this to make this profitable.
Yeah, So, so a couple of things. I think, you know, where we have so our our tech stack does enable us to create and produce at a much lower, much lower cost cost basis. So so that in and of itself, just from an economic standpoint, puts us in a little bit of a different category in terms of we're not looking at an episode costing millions of dollars, right, So
that's that's definitely you know, that benefit. And so that's really kind of like I guess, you know, like our our sort of like how we're able to make it work where you don't need to have millions of eyeballs on a piece of a piece of content is just simply you know, it's as simple as that it does not cost us as much as you would in the
traditional sort of like model. And so and then yes, you have you know, the n f T paying members of the n f T base that are you know, going to be you know, buying into it and and contributing to that, so that you know, obviously then becomes
a revenue model. Then the other then the other side of it is that you know, creating that sort of like community there are you know, now you have like a very avid fan base in which brands become interested in being able to come and be you know, sponsors of like say specific shows or like you know, having product placement in there. So the economic model isn't significantly different in terms of like, hey, there are these advertising models.
Now it looks a little different in Web three because you have a smaller base, but avid fan base that also has direct reach. And because of the lower cost structure, now you're able to really kind of shape and look at like the economic model of how you make this work. Isn't all of a sudden this like huge behemoth that has a lot of sunk cost structures that will then you know, sort of say that that was kind of
the big hurdle and animation in the past. It's like to green light anything, you sort of have to work through that you know, Excel spreadsheet and say all right, I got to make sure to hit X in order to even clear that profitability threshold to say yes, I'm going to do this you know episode or do this series.
That's you know, changed for us significantly because of the tech stact that we've built and because of now you have these different ways in which you have monetization where you can you know, you have merch that you have
avid fan base that has much higher conversion. Right, so you have conversion when you look at the broad base of like you know, the the TV sort of like shows, well you have millions of eyeballs and maybe you're converting one percent to buying a T shirt that looks significantly different when you're talking about a web based NFT enhanced project, because these guys are such huge fans, like you're, you're basically going for you do you have a million casual
fans or do you have you know, ten thousand rabbit fans? And that's kind of the dynamic that we're now looking at and really kind of reshaping how we think about fandom, how we think about economic models of these like you you almost become like these like pockets of like smaller businesses that are built around these like ips that have the potential of even of scaling, but smaller is still sustainable.
And how do you sell John someone you know, like someone creative from Workaholics? Do you join you on this? What's the incentive there? Yeah?
I mean you know so I think.
You know, part of it is, you know, the the there there are sort of like trends in Hollywood right now that that I think make it, you know, honestly make it easier. One is that you know it's you know, and you can see especially what's you know, sort of happening now. There are a lot of productions that you know are getting you know, canceled, halted things you know,
will sit in development for extended periods of time. It's just getting harder and harder to get something made in the traditional system.
You know.
I think another part of it is, you know, there's there's a control and ownership aspect to it as well, because if you know, say you are able to you know, sort of get something at least maybe in a development, a lot of times you might lose creative control, you know, the the ownership that you know, the real ownership that you have, and what you created, you know, might not really be commensurate for, you know, what you probably should get for create being you know, uh you know a
you know, a like a hit, a hit concept. And so I think those I think those trends are you know, now you've got storytellers and creators that are you know, honestly challenge frustrated, and they're looking for other ways to get stories made, get their stories told, have the control, have ownership, And honestly, I think it's a pretty you know, I don't know, but we're obviously but you know, we're biased, but.
I think it's it's a fairly easy, you.
Know, sort of like pitch because it's like listen, we're you know, here's a way to go do this. And then the other part of it, I think, you know, if you talk to people that have worked with us, they you know, I think one of the things that we're proud of is that, like they'll say, hey, like stuff happens, stuff gets made.
And I think that's probably one of.
The themes if you you know, if you were to talk to you know, all the creatives that we've worked with, it's like, yeah, they stuff's happening, Stuff's getting made. In like you think about that and it's such such a basic concept. It's it's but that's how things should happen, like things should get made, things should you know, progress, because that's the business, you know, that we're in.
That's also let's not forget we're sitting here having this conversation during the first week of the writers strike. Frustration is probably at a maximum. And I'm this is not a joking question. Does those does that create a market circumstance that helps you, guys, because people are going to be looking for opportunities or are you end in by the strike somehow or.
I mean, I think, you know, it's where I think that you know, for us, we've always sort of you know, been the place where we're like if creators like want to create and they want to you know, make stuff like where where we say where the place to come and be like you won't you have an animated idea like like come and talk to us because you know we're we're going to be producing and we're going to
be moving things forward. Because I think that you you talk about the frustration that happens, and you know, like the strike is obviously a very serious matter and it you know, has a lot of implications and and I think like if you talk to Dom, one of the things that you know, like he's, uh, you know he said to us, like you know, more than a few times,
is like like it's unbelievable. You come into this industry as a writer and you hear stories like he tells the stories, and you know, like other folks that we've worked with have told the stories. Like the thing that is that that you never expect that you that you're very quickly like surprised by, is that you spend a
lot of your career waiting. You're waiting for your you know, your year years for your series to you know come out of development in which you're just you know, kind of like long stretches of times of like oh, we're going to meet and we're going to talk about like maybe making the show, and then we're gonna we're going to pause and wait again, and you know, there's like just more consideration and so you spend so much time
just waiting to see if something's going to happen. And so you know, for us, we're like writers strike or no writers strike. Who we are as a company is like we're not We're not sitting and waiting because our inherent DNA and I guess this is the benefit of being really you know, our DNA is like we're we're tech and creative, but we are still a tech company. And as a tech company, the thing that you don't get with a tech company is like you can't as a tech company sit and wait. It's like you have
to build stuff. You have to put it out there. And you know this you know, very tech centric thing is like you got to iterate, right, you got to put it out and you're going to iterate and you're going to make the next version. You're going to make the next version of the product. And that's really part of the tech DNA that we have that's moved into our creative process, in our creative collaborations is that you can't wait to make stuff. And that's really kind of
like for us with or without the writer strike. At the end of the day, it's like, if you're a creator, who who you see like speed is important to you and you want to put your product out there, and you want your stories to be made and stories to be told like we we should be we we you should be having a meeting with us.
I'm curious to get your sense of the NFTE marketplace right now, particular to it being also a place for entertainment. It feels like, you know, we've in the past twelve months gone on quite a roller coaster rider NFT's worthy hottest thing. Yeah, and then that roller coaster came way down,
maybe coming a little bit back up again. But you know, it kind of raises the question for me, like is the you know, are you attaching yourself to a distribution system that, for all its theoretical ram as, the market may not necessarily ever pan out in the way that you think it will.
Absolutely, you know, absolutely, you're right.
I think there's there's it's it's almost an image, it's an image makeover. I think in general that like n f T S and and web threes need partly because I think the associations and and you know, like you know, I'll say, like, this is not just a Web three thing. This is like you know, we saw certainly what happened with ft X, but you know, there's a banking you know, you know, s VB was a different that's separate from web you know, parts of it separate from Web three.
So there are things that just happen.
Where you have bad actors in general, right, like you look through the history of of anything, and you're always going to have bad actors.
Web three is no different.
Like there are bad actors clearly, you know, cast cast a little bit of a you know, certainly a haze on on on the potential. But but but I think, what what people and this is what we what we're trying to do because I think, you know, because we are you know, we're committed to We're committed to Web three. We're committed to you know, AI technology, and for us, we believe in it and we believe in its potentials. And because we are you know, hopefully trailblazing and pioneering
some some cool new stuff. Then it's incumbent on us to help educate and and sort of carrying matches like
what does this really mean? And I think the challenge for web three today is that, you know, people don't know what it really means, or they they've gotten caught up in like, oh, it's an asset that I flip and it's you know, it's all about like speculation, and and they don't understand the utility of what web three is and how Web three really can sort of elevate storytelling, building, characters, community experiences, all those things, and that that that is real,
that's real potential for Web three. But you know, I don't think anybody really understands that. And I think the problem is we're also getting caught up in like terms, and we're talking about it to too technically, and it's like put all that stuff aside, like let's just talk about and like you know, and again, like Luisa and
myself are our background, you know, is entertainment. It is working at you know, studios, and we've been fortunate to work on some you know, giant you know franchise ip it's about the story, it's about the characters, it's about the creators, the people behind it. Make it about that, and then have Web three be you know, sort of the backbone to this and that shouldn't be the headline, but it it should be there, and if you lean into it, it's going to create all sorts of possibilities.
But I don't think that should be the focus of the narrative because it's just you know, it's it's it's I think it's over complicating things and.
I think, you know, like the thing that just uh, you know, we said, don't talk about the technical. I'm going to talk about the technical for a minute. I'm going to talk about the technical for a minute. There's there's NFTs and then there's Web three, right, so you have like we're excited by the Web three you know, technology and infrastructure and what it's going to do for for distribution, for you know, for production, for for you know,
story creation. Because at the end of the day, like I guess, you know, like I'll give an analogy like when you have or an example, not an analogy, but like if you are a fan base of like anything that's out there, like you know, usually like these uh, these big projects. They usually have like, oh, these like fan experiences that they create, and it's usually like, you know, an agency creates a fan experience and it's great and people are like, oh, this is so exciting, so fun.
And then when you know, kind of like the movie inherently sort of like you know, goes out of theaters and you know, moves into different cycles of that. You know, what happens to that fan experience because that's usually being run by an agency that's been tasked to create this sort of like you know, other experience to go along
and the companion of the release of the movie. Well, you know, the studio stops paying the bills, and then the agency is like, okay, cool, Well we're done with that experience, and then it's probably either shut down or they just kind of like leave it there and it's in some like digital wasteland. And as a fan, what happens.
It's like, well, if I really love this experience and I've invested time and let's say the story creation you know, our story creation portal was part of that experience, Well, if the agency shuts down or stops you know, managing it, it basically just kind of sits there. And flound just and I'm like, as a fan, well, what if I spent five, ten, twenty one hundred hours creating this and I really loved it, and all of a sudden, it's like, wait,
it amounted to nothing. And to us, it's like we also have to really kind of think about our responsibility to what fans invest in the experience, because even if they don't give you a ton of money, the thing that they're also giving you is a lot of time and attention. And that is what Web three is going to inherently change about. That is like that in the Web three ecosystem won't go away, can't go away because
of smart contracts. So even if somebody is like, okay, I'm not actively administrating anymore, you don't need someone actively actively administrating it because it is now powered by a smart contract and it will not go away. It's just it's forever locked and automated, so that if a fan wants to forever have that experience, they can. And that's the beauty of it is like it's like as long as there's a fandom around it, it will self perpetuate
and it won't go away. It's not like this marketing vehicle that then all of a sudden like oh, bills get bills stopped? Well, okay, no, now it's digital wasteland.
So I want to get a sense of what your long term vision is here for not just your company, but for Web three Entertainment. So in other words, are you guys counting on a world where Web three takes over and the old distribution models crumble? Or no, you know, Web three will just be sitting there alongside everyone else and it'll be one other thing you do. I just how how how much cool later am I drinking?
What's the level of right?
It's not you know, like I it's never going to be something that's going to like you know, like it's not about like destroying like old institutions or it's it's it's always going to be this like it's additive.
Yeah, yeah, I mean I think it's like I think it's complimentary. I mean we're we're we're seeing it as a as.
A springboard you know for original you know, original ideas.
For you know, new diverse creators.
Also you know, for creators that have had success and truditional that you know, want to do something original, because I think that's the other part is like you know, your your earlier question of like how like why you know, why are we able to sort of like work with some of you know, like the amazing you know sort
of like creators and talent that we are. I think, you know, another reason is like there there is like you know, prequel, sequel, reboot, fatigue and and you know this and you know and again like we come from that world and understand why that is happening, but doesn't change the fact that's that's that's the state of play. And and so if everything's a prequel, sequel, reboot, where
do I go with my original idea? And I think that's what we're seeing Web three as like here here, hopefully is the birthplace, the springboard for original ideas, original IP again you know, new diverse storytellers also you know, traditional folks that have had a lot of success and use that as a springboard.
Uh, you know, to Luis's point, you get.
Your you know, your rabid fans are in there, they're sort of building the IP and then from there, it's absolutely complimentary to why couldn't it.
Then go to a streamer eventually?
Why couldn't it you know, become a film and I think I think that traditional system is complementary to to Web three.
I don't.
I don't think it's an either or, And I do think future state you're you're gonna see, you know, much more of a fluid. You know, you're gonna you're you're gonna see much more of a fluid sort of like relationship between you know, traditional and Web three.
I don't want to skip the fact that another distinction about Space Junk is you are going to have the first character voiced entirely by an AI voice generated software. Which sounds great, but let's what exactly does that mean? Is this character writing its own dialogue or speaking your dialogue that you've written? How does that work?
Yeah?
So I'm sorry, Andy, I'm afraid I can't do.
That those who don't know what I had to continue.
So, Yes, the character's name is well Becca, and so in the show she is performing the lines that have been written by by by Dominic Russo and so so in in the show itself, she's uh she's fully uh AI generated voice. So this is there's a distinction. There's you know, the voice cloning technology where it's based on somebody's performance, and then there's you know, full AI voice generation, so you know, kind of literally created in a lab.
So she's performing, she's performing the lines and she's she's an AI actor and yeah, so that's her sort of in the show. Now outside of the show are our social media is actually being run by well Becca, and the social media post and the social media interactions that are being had is actually completely generated through AI engines.
And then there's the well and then May the creative co pilot.
Yes, so the other the other you know, I think really cool thing about well Becca is then you know, so those are you know, those examples are on you know, sort of on the production side, but then we're also using well Becca.
On the community facing side, where she's going to be.
Essentially your creative co pilot. So if you're in the community and you want to go, you know, write a rite fan fiction for a character or a concept within the Space Junk universe, you're going to go to well Becca and she's going to help you come up with you know, fan fiction. So now you know again, so she sort of becomes like you're you know, your your your yeah, your creative assistant, your creative co pilot to help you make make things as as a community.
Member at the risk of falling off the cutting edge here, I have to ask, so where we stay and now at you know, the beginning of a whole new era when it comes to AI, generative AI, what it can mean to the creative process. My guess is you guys are thinking a lot about this stuff. Do you have at this early sense of the game, what you think this will mean for your company or the industry at large?
We're we're super big question, We're super excited. Yeah, I mean, so we've been We've been for a long time actually using AI in in the production pipeline through machine learning. So and then this is you know, this is our
first foray into a more community facing experience. And and then obviously as like an actual performer in a show, the way that we see AI and and you know, kind of everything that we sort of do so far, as like AI is a great tool for creators, for you know, for people in the creative industry, because it's a way to be able to supercharge a lot of like idea creation, being able to help you you know, generate proof of concepts to just even see like, is
this a direction that I want to take with something. So so for us, we're super super excited by now it feels like the ability to you know, get even more creative and to experiment with things that maybe you know might have taken us you know, weeks can be synthesized in days, and we're excited by you know, you take creators. It's like, hey, creators have like so many ideas that all of a sudden they can sort of say, hey, like what does this idea look like? Like, please synthesize
it for me. And now what AI does is like it helps you kind of get fifty sixty seventy percent there. It's never going to be able to you know, like we've all seen the headlines, right it's like, oh, it's going to write the next you know, succession. It's not. It's not.
But I think and I think that's like that I think that is the misconception because it's not like listen, AI is not a button you hit and out pops Harry Potter. Like that's just that's not you know, that's not how it works. But but it is this like it really is this like great tool assistant, you know, creative copilot. I think that is a good sort of
like way to think about it. That does supercharge you as a creator, and when you see what comes out, it does it can do a good, good portion of the heavy lifting and you know, to Luise's point, maybe get you forty fifty sixty percent there, but then the rest, you know, if you if you really want quality output, something that fans are going to like love, and you know, like you want to interact with you're gonna have to You're gonna have to.
Lean in and do that.
Like that's just that's the human element. But it is, you know, a combination of both. It does like and we you know, to this point also like we've been using it on the production side for years and there are some some it's been really it's been really helpful. And I think that you know, I think longer term it is going to create new opportunities. Now, I think there's also part of where people are going to have to rethink what they do and there's going to be transformation.
There's going to be transition there, there's no doubt. But I think longer term there are going to be new sort of like opportunities that that are created by this. But it's just gonna be a matter of like thinking about things differently. And I think the hope is like it's it's going to free up people to be more creative, like like spend your time on things that are you know, like.
Original artistry or like pure creation.
And that's where hopefully people can spend their time and you know spend you know, yeah, spend more of their their their their their work on on those kinds of activities.
Well, there's a lot of quite a ferment on the innovative side of Hollywood these days, and you guys are clearly playing in this playground space. Junk starts May nineteen. If you want to check out the future of entertainment, get in early, get an NFT. Thank you John Eluisi for coming in today, Thank you having thanks a lot for having us. This has been another episode of Strictly Business.
Tune in next week for another helping of scintillating conversation with media movers and shakers, and please make sure you subscribe to the podcast to hear future episodes. Also leave a review in Apple Podcasts and let us know how we're doing.