The State of the Music Industry, Fall 2021

twenty months into the pandemic. While that topic is obviously ridiculously broad, I narrowed it down to four key roles and chose people who are running successful careers or businesses or departments. An artist, an agent that's the person whose job it is to get work for the artist, everything from live shows to book deals. An artist manager in this case one who also happens to be an attorney in the GM of an independent record label, and a

music publishing executive. Asked each one questions about what their experiences have been like over the past year and a half and how they pivoted to use everyone's favorite pandemic buzzword to keep alive their careers, and those are the people that they worked with now. I was honestly stunned by these conversations. The speakers were Brittany Spencer, a country singer songwriter who CBS This Morning is called Nashville's new Star.

She saw her career take off almost entirely during the pandemic by keeping a dialogue with her fans, playing live streams, and dropping a series of songs online that led up to the release of her debut EP, Compassion, which has gotten rave reviews in the press and really has made

her arrive. Here. She speaks in vivid and very poetic terms about how she did it and how strange it all felt to be achieving a lot of her dreams during a pandemic, and the deep connection she's made with her audience as they rode through the past months together. Next up was Lucy Dickens, the London based co head of music for William Morris Endeavor talent agency who works with A Dalla and Mumford and Sons and loads of others.

She spoke about how she and her company found new ways not only to keep their artists and clients working, but also how the staff and company adjusted and found

new opportunities for themselves and the business. Next up was Bent and the Ambi Brown, artist manager and founder of her own oh Maliley Projects, but also an attorney in general manager of Keep Cool Records, an independent hip hop and R and B labeled distributed by Our c A. She spoke about how our artists not only kept motivated but have managed to thrive through the pandemic, and also about the moment how she and they embraced the Black

Lives Matter protests of the spring and summer of and Finally, Christina Hedrick of Sony Music Publishing talked about how that business has actually managed to soar during the pandemic, as the shutdown of touring led not only to a boom of songwriting but a boom in the value of songs and song cattle. With everyone home streaming and no one playing concerts for months and months, songs turned out to be a valuable and durable thing to create. Non Now,

it's not all roses. These are not all positive stories, and each of these people talk about how difficult it was to achieve anything, let alone the success that they did during this time. It's a really remarkable conversation, although I hesitate to call it that because I basically just asked each one A couple of long winded questions, and

they took off with these thoughtful and inspiring answers. Normally these kinds of discussions are round tables filled with bantering and contradictions and even arguments, and everyone here let each other have their say, and we're so complimentary and supportive of each other. No coincidence they're all female. So without further ado, after the break, you'll be hearing from them

and me on strictly business. We'll be right back. We will start up, actually, um, start this up, be taking you look at where things are in the music industry at the moment, where we've been in the last year and a half as we all cope with the pandemic and uh, what's come of what we feel is coming next? And bring me. I'm actually gonna start with you, um, not not to be mean, but because without music and musicians, none of us have anything to do here. So go

back eighteen months. Um, your career is on the rise. Um, your ep I guess was about to come out at that time or coming out soon. Um, presumably lots of tour dates lined up, COVID hits. How did you react, how did you pivot? And um, how did you keep your career moving because you've you've been on and up

on and up swing through all this. Yeah, it's been the most bizarre thing, um, if I'm honest in a beautiful way, but also um, you know, I, like you said, I was getting ready to release my EP at the time that the pandemic hit, and I actually put it off for a few months. Um, and I kind of changed course and decided to release each song one at a time because I figured everyone's home, you know, what are we doing? Just you know, there's no rush um, And I I wanted to take a more of a

content approach um to my releasing I guess style. Um. But yeah, the world came, it stopped. It just no one knew what to do. I mean, as as far as artists goes and the artists in my orbit, none of us knew what to do. I mean, we didn't know if we should release music. We thought, oh, it's only gonna be other month. That was kind of like the talk at the beginning of the pandemic, it's going to be a month um of quarantine and then we'll

be okay. And and so I held off, you know, like a lot of artists, and then at some point, I was just like, I don't want to do this anywhere. I don't want to hold off. I just you know, I want to go. UM. I think the advantage of me being such a new artist is that, UM, I didn't really feel like I didn't feel pressured to change my tactics. I guess, so my little strategies I just

I just show who I am. I honestly, every song that's on my EP has probably been on my social media for at least six months prior to it even being released. I just tried out new songs on social media the way people trying out at shows, and so I just found ways to engage music and find different ways to to do content. UM. A whole lot of COVID testing. Honestly, there was like a period of several months where I was getting tested at least once or

twice a week. UM, because I would I would just plan everything out and say, Okay, hey, I need to do a photo shoot this day, or I need to go write a song with this person this day. I would just kind of I would plan out my in person things and I would just get tested in quarantine. And it was a whole lot. It was really interesting, like planning out when the hang with someone because you need to get tested and and quarantine. But m m hm,

so I'm having sinus issues right now if you hear it. UM. But I think the Jurassic change, and I'll try to be brief. For me at least is watching everything come to a halt and feeling the agony of that, but also finding the opportunity and that. And I think for artists, we found we found ways to dig deeper into our music.

We found ways to um, I don't know, to engage Like a few friends of mine, we started just going around and doing shows in people's backyards for a little bit UM like when it got a little safer, UM Like towards the end of last summer, UM, we started getting more creative with strategies. I I just signed with my booking agency at the top of this year, UM, and so we just we started engaging UM branding opportunities, We started engaging the live stream opportunities, anything that was UM,

I guess innovative for this particular time. We just started engaging it UM. And I think artists had to be really open to that because a lot of times, I mean a lot of artists in Nashville. They don't want to do TikTok all the time. We don't, we don't. We don't like to do things. We just like to

go do shows. It was it was not the easy route, and and you know it's not easy to do shows, but it was the biggest, it is the biggest the revenue stream, and so artists had to I feel like we had to open our minds and and really just be open to finding more innovative ways to see the opportunity in quarantine and not just the the pain in the agony and the setback of it. And I think some of those things will be implemented uh and years

to come, I think in addition to live shows. But people are going to have to be more innovative, I think moving forward in order to sustain a viable career path for artists. How did you replace the income that you lost from from not being able to play live shows? Um, I think, well, during the pandemic. I actually I had a job even before the pandemic. I had a part

time job that allowed me to work remotely. So I'm a new artist, Like the tag is probably still on me, Like I'm I'm new new UM, and I was spending I mean, prior to the pandemic, I was spending a lot of time recording, a lot of time writing, and I started doing these personal trips where I would just go and travel to different cities, different states to write with my friends. And I did that for a long time.

Um but I was I was still working. But but in addition to that, I mean, I wasn't able to continue to work during the pandemic as things started taking off for me. Um but I I just found branding opportunities really, UM, I felt opportunities to um with live streams. Live streams were really cool help um in terms of income as well. UM yeah, those were my Those were probably my two biggest ones. And I think for more

established artists there were more opportunities. But as an independent artist who was new, I really just had those different Um those really those two outlets. I mean it's probably maybe one or two more that I'm not remembering, but those were the biggest ones. Branding and live streams and uh but yeah, I mean it's it's a labor of love. I mean, especially as a new artist, and I was

doing some of the most fantastic things. I never even thought I could do, and I was doing it from my studio apartment, like getting to have a feature in New York Times or being a rolling Stone, And like they're not sending photographers, you know, you had my makeup artist was literally taking photos of me and we were getting sent off to edit. And so like these big monumental moments were happening in a way that I never thought they would. I thought it would be bigger, I

thought it'd be something else. And and because of the solitude that we've had in quarantine, we've had to really readjust and really reimagine, um, how things, how big things could be, and and and I guess in ways that we didn't foresee them in pass. So I hope I'm answering your question. Yeah, no, that's actually a really interesting way of putting it, is, is how big things can be?

Did you get so you enjoyed live streams? Because I remember, um, you know, you think about the early ones like that that Elton John benefit where you've got Paul McCartney like playing into his phone. Um, you know, and several months later things had really really progressed. Um, did you ever get used to st make it easier? But did you ever really get used to playing, you know, playing live streams. Um. Yes,

as a person who who just posted videos online. I didn't do it all the time, but I did it quite a bit, um playing for Instagram or you know, like people playing for people who going to see you on YouTube or Instagram or Twitter. I was kind of used to it. I did enjoy it, honestly, UM, But I do understand missing that that interaction that really can

only be gained from a live performance. You missed that exchange, You missed that that conversation, and in live streams can kind of just be this this, this um, just one way conversation that might not always be the most engaging

um or fulfilling, but it's I like it. I thought it was a really cool opportunity to to hone in on the craft of just I mean, I don't know, and where I come from, we call it just flat footed singing, like just standing there and singing the song and singing and communicating the story and singing your gass off and and not relying on on what can sometimes feel like a crush. If you have that audience interaction, everyone's loving it, you know, you that can kind of

sometimes be an artistic crutch. There. There's so many times where I've looked back at a video and I thought I felt so good on the stage, and I listened back and I'm like, oh my god, what was I doing at this part? That sounds crazy? But everyone was just loving it, you know, And so it's it's those moments where it just it was a time to really hone in. That's that's the best way that I can describe it. For artists. It was a time to hone in.

What are we writing about? You know, we were in the pandemic, but it was also a whole lot going on. It wasn't we weren't lacking um events at all during this pain theem We were in the houses, but I mean they were protests going on. There was there was a whole lot of injustice happening. There was an election

we were embarking upon. There was there were events. You know, this was a very eventful time of solitude, and so it I think it cause creatives to really to really dig in and figure out what it is that they want to say, and also what do I want to do the next time I get in front of people. You know, we're not going to take those moments for granted anymore, at least I hope not, you know, just thinking like oh, it's another show, or or just get on the bus and just treating this casually like oh,

this is just my life. No, because we remember when we couldn't do this anymore. Remember when it was it wasn't it wasn't an option. You know, you didn't see people, you didn't get to see your fans. I mean even now, like on I'm on the road right now with Brett Eldredge and with Jason Is Bowl, and I don't I don't think we bring people backstage, Like there are no meet and greets. Um, we're not bringing friends and family backstage. Everyone is vaccinated. Um, we're all wearing masks behind stage,

and so it's it's um, it's different. You know, I'm about to be playing I'm about to do my first show at the Rhyman Auditorium on Saturday with Jason Is Bowl and it's so cool and I can't, like I can invite people, but I'm not bringing I wouldn't even feel comfortable to bring people backstage. So it's these big moments and they're happening much different than we thought. Um, and even just touring as a new artist, touring with COVID has been has been really really hard. Um, it's

just it's just some more challenging time. But as a new artist, and I keep stressing it because I don't really I don't have a huge point of context for how life was before COVID because I just released my first EP and December. Um, but this is my point of context. And so if we can I don't know, if I can make it through COVID, then then that can hopefully, you know, meet any of the challenge in the future. Head on. That's how I feel with COVID. It's just if you can make it through this, that

we can make it through anything. Yeah. I think we've all feel like we've been tested enough. So UM, just one more question on that on that point, and that's how did your relationship with your fans change? Like, you know, I've talked a lot of artists who say that like they know they did a good performance during live streaming by the number of claps they see they see, or like the number of people who are singing along in all caps, you know, singing along. Um, did you engage

more with your fans? And how did you how did you, like, you know, sort of manage that relationship with them, And I'm just gonna get up for one second because there's construction across the way and they got to close the door. Absolutely. UM. I I think that my relationship with with fans UM has changed in that I think people utilize social media a little more. I started noticing a huge uptick someone's

knocking at my door. I noticed a huge uptick in comments and in the amount of people that would just message me UM just to let me know, like hey, I saw your thing, or just more YouTube comments. I saw this thing you did online, I saw this live stream. It's just I think the audience has been like that immediate UM interaction you don't have, but you can so to still here. UM. You don't get that immediate reaction,

but you do get UM. I guess the after the after effect, people just find ways to still engage with you. I mean, if we didn't have social media, there would be no medium to still communicate with fans and and UM and for people to be able to share with you their story, you know, because they heard yours on some other you know medium, and so it was UM. I don't know. It's just been a really beautiful time I feel and and maybe this I hope this answers

your question more as well. I feel like even the responses that I've gotten from fans has been more um like, more in depth. Like people aren't just like, oh, I liked your show. They're saying, I loved your show. I've had a really hard time. I got laid off from work, or you know, my family is struggling financially right now, or someone in my family has COVID and this really

brightened my day. Like people, I'm seeing more of that um where people are just excited even now to just be back at shows and they let you know, they let you know in person if they can, or they'll just message or opposed to comment. It's just it feels deeper right now because people know the cost of attending a show. It's not just a taboo thing. It's not just a Friday night this is this is how life

is enjoyed now. So it feels it feels like it's on a deeper level right now, the connection between artists and fans. We'll be right back with Variety strictly business, taking a look at the state of the music industry in the fall of You're back with Variety strictly Business this week, taking a look at the state of the music industry in the fall of one Lucy, I want to move over to the next um again. It's the

same situation, uh march um. You have a lot of artists presumably touring, about to start tours, and all of a sudden their main source of income is shut down completely. How did you and how did w m E pivot

and find new opportunities for your artists. Well, I mean, obviously there's been a huge amount of change with within the agency world, and I think that the key part of all of that was in a way, I think it gives you that false moment to actually stop and to actually think, because obviously the life thing was always so you know, you're on a roll and you just keep booking live show, live show, and then when something forces you to stop like that, you then have to

start really really delving into what else you can do. And obviously, you know, as Brittany is already alluded to, we obviously had to set up a virtual department. We also have been things, you know, we've had areas of like visual media where with our artists doing that or crossover department became hugely, hugely valuable to us for artists such as Lizzo and everyone else that we've had that

can just crossover into like to the other departments. We've had Book department that's been working on people like Dave grow with his new book that's come out. So it really was how do we how do we keep momentum? Momentum was the hardest thing, and it wasn't just for our clients. It's like, how do you keep momentum and people's morale high in a company like that where suddenly they don't know what to do themselves. So it wasn't it was like a whole big problem that we were

dealing with. But you know, we navigated through and we found lots of other areas and and we've grown other departments. You know, we've got the Legends department now, So you know, it's been quite I think that that false time being able to stop and actually go, hang on a minute, what else can we do here? Because we've got all these tools available to us in this company, but none of us are really utilizing it. So let's start working out ways that we can cross the departmentalize and benefit

and help our artists out. You know. But I think depending as Brittany spoke so brilliantly about with a new are tist it could. It was so beneficial, like signed so many new artists during the pandemic, and I think the ability for them to not rush, which I think was the key term that you use their Brittany, which is so what so many artists always want to do. It's like, you know, they want to rush everything out. It's not rushing, it's engagement. It's letting your fans be

able to relate to you. And it gave us all time for that. It gave us time to think about what tour is going to be like when we go further forward. What you know what tour wise, my tour going to sell bad tickets than the fifteen other tours that are out at the same time because obviously we're now a bottleneck with everyone wanted to come back touring.

So it's like it's just having that moment to stop and actually to think and be Okay, you know, how what else are we going to do here moving forward? And you know, times have changed massively and if we don't keep moving forward, we become irrelevant and stay all right. Indeed, um, were you having a lot of conversations with with your artists at the beginning of the pandemic that were almost

um you know what were you saying to them? To keep them optimistic and keep them motivated and keep them moving. I think, you know, I was actually exceptionally lucky. I think I was one of those agents who I didn't have a load of artists on the road that were like literally asking me to reschedule. I think I'd a Rex Orange County tour, which we remember at the time

when the pandemic hit. He was going off to play a big tour in Australia and it was so far away that when people are going to need to pull that down. I was looking at people like as if you were you crazy, Like why would I pull that tour down? That's totally going to happen. And I think he was the only one that we just left it. I didn't want to be one of those agents that

kept rebooking. I think that that was worse for artists, was like, sorry, your tour is not going to happen now, but we're going to reschedule it to this and so many agents I saw were just rescheduling and rescheduling, and I was like, what you were scheduling for? You don't

actually know when we're out of this. So I mean for me, apart from him, all of my clients, literally all of them have taken that opportunity to write some of the most brilliant albums, which I mean, they're all about to start coming out as I'm sure one of them you're aware of um, and they've all written like

probably the best records of their life. So again, as Britain said that, it's been such a map the amount of events that I mean, could you honestly you wouldn't be able to when you actually stop and think about all the things that have gone on in these last two years. And that's like as a global thing, but also personally for people. I've lost four very close friends.

You know, it's like it's been a crazy time. And I think for up for my artists, I was lucky because they were just really using that time and men with Monthly and signs with Ben, you know, with Winston leaving, Ben had a baby, so people were going through these amazing emotions and they just basically used the time to write, so I didn't. I didn't feel that I got any major breakdowns from any of my clients that they were just using that moment to be super creative. Mm hmm. No,

that's very interesting. So where are things now? Are you know? Is it is it sort of a tentative return to touring? Is it full scale for some artists? Where where are things in general? For both your clients and the companies? So, Jen, I mean for the companies, I mean it depends on whereabouts you are. You know, like obviously in our country department, it's been fantastic. You know, touring has been great. So

that's been going back full throat. Like I remember being so jealous when I was looking at all these tours and stadiums that were going back out onto on the road. I was like, are you serious, Like none of us are in that situation, but we're actually you know, it's coming back. You know. The problem that now we have to do is to navigate how many artists there are in the market, and you know, ticket sales are unless you are that exceptionally hot artists no matter where you

are in the world. This isn't just like a UK europe international thing. This goes for this every globally, no matter where you are in the world. If you're hot,

your ticket sales are okay, you know they're good. But if you're if you're in that mid bit, like it's hard, Like we'refore we percent down on sales, So there is still a lot of consumer confidence is not quite there yet, Like people over here, people backing is going to indoor shows, festivals have been running perfectly greener, they've been great, but you know, it's we're not out of this pandemic yet

at all. And so but on that note, what I would say is it's certainly going in the right direction. Like this is the most positive I've felt, and you know, we're about to hit the winter months. I made regret saying this, but for me right now, it feels like we're on the up trajectory. Well, that's that's good news for all of us, and let's hope that stays that way. What does I mean? I've always wondered this because touring

in general is such a puzzle. Um, how do you do it when you've got this constantly rescheduled tours, everything bottlenecking? Who gets priority in a certain market? Is it? Is it just whose sales are oldest? Is it who like book the dates first? How does that work? Simply who's got the dates first? But you know a lot of those things, I mean, for me and and for a lot of the other agents I work with, sometimes you have to actually look at when was this tour booked?

And you know, and when is that in relation to the record coming out? And now they've written a new record, So actually, why don't we just scrap this? You know? And I've done this with some of mine and let's really look at this on a new record and let's build a completely new strategy because so many people are cutting and pasting, cutting and pasting, and the same with festivals, and it's kind of tired, like people have moved on, you know, this generation is so look at the charts.

You're in your out. You're in your out, So why do people want to stay and have the same you know, the same albums listen to which is now effectively could be two three years out of day. So it's very much for me and for all the a lot of the agents you know that I work with, we've been very much we've been sort of strategizing and going does this now make sense, and if it makes sense, us go ahead with it, and obviously first come, first serve

and avows because the avows are terrible. Um. But if not, then why we rush in this. Let's get a new piece of music out and let's tour with a big body of work you know the people haven't seen. Mhm. Do you find that most artists are revising their tours? Because I'm looking at like the Weekends After Hours tour is finally starting in January, the album came out in March, and or Billie Eilish I think, completely revised her tour. She got three days into a world tour and then

had to scrap it because of because of COVID. Now she's got a new album, a new look, and presumably an all new tour. Are most artists just like forgetting the old one and moving and moving into something new like you were saying, But I think it depends on if they've got a new record coming out and how relative the record still is. Like some some people are folks enough to have a record that sticks around for forever and therefore it doesn't really matter if they're going

to go and play again on a tour. But I think for for certainly the hot artists, if they've got a new record coming out, it probably would make sense to wait for the new record and redo it. Like Harry Styles, I believe, is another one that's you know, they're looking at that because how many more times do you actually want to tell your fans are rescheduling at all?

So I think, yeah, I think it all depends on what that record, you know, what that new record is that's coming out, and how relevant is if it's not If it's an artist that is an all time classic artist that can tour forever and ever, it doesn't matter

if they just reschedule in you know, down the line. Um, you mentioned country, what are some other genres that are doing well and ones that are perhaps doing that as well, because um, you know, like the festivals, which largely have a young audience, seemed to be doing great, but on a lot of like you know, for instance, the Stones tour, I'm hearing about empty seats, which is a rare thing for Stones tours. But I also think that's just a

reflection of the audience's age, you know. I mean, they're older and they're going to be reluctant to go to a Giant Stadium show. Agreed. I mean that's definitely showing. I mean we have I mean, certainly in the hip hop department, we're doing we're it's been incredibly strong, you know, we have and even on the British rap side that we have an artist called Dave that when he did a hundred twenty two thousand tickets so far, so like that's super super strong, right and yeah, so like it's

it really does. That's definitely showing. I think you know,

you're absolutely hit the nail on the head. It's it's that, you know, the new generation are obviously not so frightened of going out, but saying that, you know, there are still drops in festivals still and they're still I think with the younger generation it's less of the COVID thing now, but it's more the claustrophobic thing of like we actually haven't been crammed in festivals are fine, that's one thing, but going into a five thousand cap theater or a

theater that sort of confined space, I think there's still a little bit of nervousness there. Understandable. Okay, thank you, thank you for that, um Nter. I will move on to you move on to you. And you know, as someone who works in so many different areas, UM, which areas got hit the hardest? Which ones were easier to deal with? Is? Um? You know what was happening with your artists when COVID hit and how have they gotten through it? Sure? So first of all, Hi Jim, and

hi everybody. And I've just been learning so much from from Lucy and Brittany and UM, and I agree with so much that they've said. I'm actually been taking notes because one of my artists, UM was complaining about ticket sales this morning. So now I can go back and I can say, well, you know it's down, and you're already sold, and you're already and you're more than a month out, so be quiet. UM. So thank you Lucy for arming me with that UM useful data, uh for

for me as a manager. But yeah, I mean, but the live obviously took took a hit. UM. And and in some places the biggest artists was whom I work and have worked. UM, they ended up being okay because they got branded live streams and those were quite lucrative UM. And they kept getting them over and over and over again. And like I said, they were quite lucrative, UM, you know, per label side artist. You know, like we're selling records.

Stuff is streaming, you know, and there were people who were saying that it was only the older stuff that was streaming, but that's not been my experience my new artist UM. You know. So for example of Van Jess, like they've they've had a great year. You know, we dropped an EP, it was initially an EP before we made it a deluxe in August UM and turned it into an album or actually September UM. But you know, they dropped their their their their project on Keep Cool

in February. You know, people started sending it around, listening to it. You know, we're doing great on radio UM. And so it's been it's been a it's been a good year for us, UM. You know, I will say that like for me, my approach going into the pandemic was I didn't have the short term perspective a lot of people had. I knew that it was gonna be a while, and I knew that for a couple of reasons.

You know, I'm I'm an immune compromise person um as I think you know, Jim, I have sickle cell disease and one of my doctors had actually sent me a text saying, wherever you are, you need to just plan to stay there for a long time. So I hope

that you're safe because you shouldn't go anywhere. Um. And then another friend of mine who worked for the CDC UM had called me and said, by the way, this is really bad, So don't believe anybody who's saying that this is just like a two week or three weeks thing. So well before most people started quarantining, I had started gathering all of my my goods. How do you get a new artist out there if they can't tour or if they're they're touring is much more limited than it

would have been pre COVID. How do you get a new artist out there even when they're you know, taking this time to become more themselves. I first task as a manager music executive as well, but my first task as a manager was to make sure that I could continue building my artist careers like that was the first

thing I needed to build their careers. I needed to make sure they had money in their pockets, UM, and I needed to we needed to all take care of each other emotionally, because of course it wasn't just the pandemic that was occurring. It is also, you know, the the racial reckoning and the majority of my artist right now, actually, yeah, the majority of my artists right now are black, and

so we're affected, you know. And I'm not suggesting that only black people were affected by George Floyd and the racial reckoning, but it definitely felt a particular kind of way, you know, like some of them felt like they needed to get out and to be in the streets and protesting and involved and engaged. And I certainly felt the same way, although I didn't go outside. Um and so you know what, from the perspective of there's all of this stuff that we have to juggle right now, making

sure that they had food on the table. For me, it was about calling people, being on the phone every single day, like calling people at radio, calling people at the streaming platforms, calling people of brands, you know, calling journalists, like calling you know, like making sure that we had the right people on the team, and just working bit by bit slowly and surely and having a lot of faith,

you know. And there were some things where we got lucky, you know, like because we were able to position things the right way on social media, because we were able to position them the right way, um, at the platforms and with our playlisting strategy. Um, you know, like the music is good and solid music, and so people were

listening and they were receptive to it. Christina, and finally getting get to ask you a question, because out of all the areas of the music industry, intellectual property and publishing have boomed more than any other during the pandemic. Publishing was already on an upswing when the pandemic started,

it's become even more so. Um, how have you kept up with what's going with what's going on, especially with all these big money players coming into the game, Like, you know, how is it how is it going for Sony Music Publishing, and how has it gone for your writers? Um, with this boom that's been happening. Uh, wow, it's a little question. Uh. First of all, thank you so much for having me, and I'm loving listening to everyone else's

experiences about the industry during the pandemic. Um, you're right, it's a it's a great time to be a songwriter who's looking to sell right now, Like this market is crazy and I do think that aspects of the pandemic highlighted how important songs are, the meaning behind songs to people, uh, writing songs, uh, people at home, being able to listen to songs, having access to them, whether it's live stream or streaming or radio. Um, everything starts with the song.

So I really do believe in the lasting value of investing in copyrights. Um. And it seems like the rest of the world is waking up to that too, especially investment companies and non music based companies. UM. I think it's this kind of competitive marketplaces. It's a great marketplace to be in because it pushes all of us to do our best in service to songwriters, which is our always our goal. Uh. And it just pushes every company to be you know, innovating and improving and supporting songwriters

and in even better ways. M hmm. Do you think that all the money that's coming in from non music sources, which is which is especially going crazy in the past weeks. I mean, this morning, um, black Stone announced the new deal with Hypnosis and Hypnosis. I'll be the one who can say this has played a huge role in driving up the prices publishing by paying so much. Do you feel like a bubble is happening? Do you think this is ultimately going to get too big with the way

that outside money is coming in. I mean, because these are big Wall Street firms that are now investing in music and bringing non music people into ownership of a very very specific asset. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, it's hard to say whether it's gonna end up being a bubble. I hope that it isn't, because I do believe in the lasting value of investing in copyrights. UM. I do know that we we aim to do the

deals that make sense for us as a company. H and I feel like there are a lot of companies out there that are like us, UH who are continuing to do that as well. UM and UH. We try to compete as much as we can with UH, with those investment companies like Hypnosis UM and UH. You know, We've done a lot of acquisitions that I've been really proud of in the past few years. We just did river House last year in Nashville, which was a great

acquisition for us. It's a continuing j D partnership that we're building, UH, and we got access to a roster of writers that have really big driving Nashville hits for the last few years. Uh, so I think there are lots of opportunities for companies to continue doing deals like that.

Do you have advice or is there any sort of company wide suggesting, um that that you have first songwriters, especially up and coming songwriters, for getting their work out there during a time when people can't tour, and you know, like we've we've got a much more limited and focused output for I. I know that we use like the A and R s in our company, use a ton of discovery tools. Um. Pretty much everyone I work with

is a massive fan of music. Uh. I'll be excited to get back to an office environment where I can walk down the hall and hear what everyone is listening to, because right now it's harder. You know, you have to seek out what other people are listening to. UM in a different way, it feels very organic when you're able to just be talking to your colleagues and uh listening

to what is peaking their interest. UM. I think you guys really touched on something earlier in the panel which was really interesting and true, which is that a lot of marquee artists put off releasing in the last year and a half or so, and it made space for new artists and songwriters in a way that I think was a surprise to a lot of us. Um and Uh.

We saw a lot of new artists like really have success, The Kiddle, Roy, Olivia Rodrigo, Like they put out albums that really drove the marketplace in a way that you would expect of like a more experienced artist or songwriter to do. Um and it. It made the year really interesting and fine to hear these new voices come into the marketplace. Um and I'm excited to see where they go. Thank you everybody, this has been absolutely awesome. I was worried because you know, it was a long panel, but

I actually feel like we're getting cut off. You have been listening to Variety Strictly Business podcast taking a look at the state of the music industry in the fall of This is Variety Deputy music editor Jemmy as What. Thank you for listening. You can bet they detain