Welcome to Strictly Business Variety's weekly podcasts featuring conversations about the business of media and entertainment. I'm TV business writer Jennifer Monts. Dennis Miller, and Brad Schwartz took charge of the CW network last fall when they were appointed network
President and entertainment President, respectively, by new owner Nextstar. With the fall TV season upon us at a particularly tumultuous time for Hollywood, I spoke with Pop TV alum Schwartz and Sony Pictures and Lionsgate TV v Miller about their sports, unscripted and acquired international content heavy slate, as well as the larger plan for the network born in two thousand and six out of the merger between CBS's UPN and Warner Brothers. The WB. Stay tuned for more after the break.
And we're back with Brad Schwartz and Dennis Miller on the reinvention of the CW Network.
So I'm going to start with like the most recent question, which is at what point the decision was made during the summer to alter the fall schedule given the changes from upfront time to them.
You know, I don't think it's all that different. I think the biggest change was that we had All American on the schedule, which you know, at the time the strike wasn't happening, and we thought that show would deliver for fourth quarter. It's a monster of a show for us, and we were very smartly pairing that with a great show fifty first Street. When the strike impacted All American, we just had to make a little change, you know. There, So we moved our comedy block that we had talked
about to Monday nights. We thought that was a good competitive night for comedies, and then on Tuesdays, we signed a great deal with NFL Films to bring Inside the NFL to the CW, which which brings the NFL, you know, the biggest sports brand in the country, a very valuable NFL Crest, a partner in NFL Films, and a forty year well known sports franchise that has won Emmys, and for the first time ever is available for sponsorship and advertising. So that was a really exciting opportunity for us to
get into a partnership with the NFL. And besides that, I don't think anything else.
Has changed, Dennis, the number of deals that I've made, you know, speaking about Inside the NFL, but just strictly on sports, right, there have been three since the last time that we talked, so I wanted to know how that came about, how long those talks were going, and if there's more coming live.
You know, we were, you know, obviously, like everyone kind of like, wow, this is a huge new development and potentially could be very interesting for CW.
Obviously there's a lot.
Of uh, you know, field to plow right now for the Live Folks and the p I F and the p G A, and they're doing what they're doing, and we hope it comes to.
A successful conclusion.
They've announced the first half of next season that we did back in New York a while ago. But you know, we're we're just fingers crossed and hope that this comes to a place where Live and PGA can you know, coexist in a good way. And I think we think that's where this will all end up. But we we
you know, remain kind of cautiously optimistic, uh. And then the ACC Sean Compton, you know, Jenny, I believe, you know, had been in conversations for a long time with the Raycon Folks, which is owned by Gray, and he had really kind of initiated the conversations as the a c C as Raycon was able to pull a package together of you know, top college football and basketball games given the you know, the existing incumbents in play, and so we jumped in and Sean and LeeAnne our CFO at
Next Star really you know, actively were negotiating for some time, and then with the season approaching it it was moving expeditiously and ultimately we're able to you know, secure those rights and launching as you know, September ninth inside the NFL came across the transom from ross Quitoer at NFL Films, and we were delighted when we heard that there may be an opportunity to move the Emmy Award winning top show off of Showtime in HBO after all those years
and have NFL Tuesday Night wrapping up the weekend and Monday night schedule. So that happened and moved, you know, very quickly, and NASCAR had been being negotiated for some time.
This was really at the Next Star.
Level with Perry and you know all of his team, Leanne, Shawn, the whole gang and ourselves had series of meetings with the NASCAR folks and I think these were both founder companies, the France family and Perry having started next Door and being the fifth largest shareholder in the company. There was a commonality of kind of perspectives and interests. The Extinity came up opportunistically and we pounced and you know successfully
were able to make that seven year deal with them. So, you know, a lot happened very very quickly, very opportunistically. I think the combination of cable erosion creating concerns for leagues wanting this broad distribution, RSN implosion, retooling of leagues which is ongoing right now, and I think Brad and I were both very you know, surprised and excited about
what was coming our way. So we went from zero, as Brat might like to say to you know, four hundred and fifty hours in twenty twenty five of sports.
Yeah, I'll just put one more our button on the end of that. So yeah, so, you know, six months ago and historically zero live sports on the CW. This year we'll have over three hundred hours of live sports, and in two thousand and twenty five we'll have four hundred and fifty hours of sports, and we'll have live sports on the CW forty eight weekends a year, and that's moving very quickly into the sports business and what
I love. And the other new thing that's happened is we now have CW programming hours on Saturday and Sunday afternoons, which we've never had, which also just allows for audience flow that you can talk to those audiences during the day about stuff that's coming into prime. Football can push to golf, Golf can push to college football, college football can push back to golf, and then we can you know, use all of that to promote our primetime lineup. So
it's really exciting. And to answer the second part of your question that you asked, Dennis, as you can imagine, when you announce all these great big sports things, every other sports league arts calling. And so yes, I don't I don't think.
We're done a little bit more for you on that rub, which is what the balance is like for you moving forward. Then, as we look at the new CW, with sports being such an important part of this, what the rest of
your schedule looks like. You know, obviously there's the weekend and then there's primetime during the week and if you see more of it moving there, if there's a chance for that, and then how much time you have a program scripted and unscripted during the week and what you're looking for that balance there.
Yeah, you know, I think in our lot. In Nexttar's last earnings report, our CEO mentioned how we were starting to look and feel a lot more like Fox, you know, in that we have two hours of primetime a night, and now we're getting into major sports on the weekends. Our primetime lineup is still going to be heavily entertainment programming.
You know.
I've always kind of thought as we evolve the CW, it'll be very balanced fifty to fifty between scripted and unscripted. And of course when we have the opportunity to put some sports into primetime, we're going to take some shots and do that. And having inside the NFL in prime time on Tuesdays, that's just where it's always been for forty years. That was kind of the easiest scheduling decision of all time. But we have some acc football games
coming that will be in prime. Our first game on the ninth will be in prime, and then two weeks later we're going to have five hours of live golf leading into three and a half hours bACC football. That's eight and a half hours straight of live sports on the CW. It's just it's never happened before. So we'll put some sports into prime where we can. But really, from what we presented at the upfront, are you know two hours a night, seven nights a week is still very heavily entertainment programming.
You know, as Brad said, not much changed for you all in the fall schedule, especially compared to your competitors who might have been a little riskier in making their initial decisions. So Dennis don't want to know how that ended up affecting the upfront and what sales look like and what partnerships look like going into this fall first that you guys are really modifying and changing and in control of the fall schedule.
Well, we got lucky in ways because you know, we were had a number of uh, you know, high profile and high quality series that Brad and his team were able to you know, go out and dig under a lot of rocks and talk to a lot of talented production companies in the UK and Canada and elsewhere and find, you know, opportunities to put this programming on our prime
time in the fall. We were ending a lot of stuff that had been already committed under the previous owners, So we were taking on a lot and running a lot of stuff. But we you know, we're fortunate to have a number of scripted series that we're just getting started on the CW. Obviously, as Brad just said, we've got sports on the weekend, and you know, Brad can tell you, but you know, we have a pretty active nonfiction slate right now that is shooting around the country.
So I think compared to our competitors who were punkering down and as you know, Jenny talking publicly about selling assets, I think we were very pleased and happy to be building and buying.
So we think we're we're in a pretty good.
Place Brad going into this fall from a marketing perspective, you know, we talked back in May, but you were like, we've got more to com and you'll see how it
rolls out so far. But promoting the fall and promoting the new CW also given that we know that this might not be exactly what things look like next fall, this could be very different, So how you're branding yourselves as the new CW with kind of an asterisk that like more to com things could change, Like we obviously don't have the same tools going into this fall that we could have to program.
Yeah, I mean, look, we knew that the fall was going to be a lot of new and exciting content on the schedule, and we need to keep our powder dry and keep our marketing dollars ready for fall. We just closed our upfront and we have ratings targets to hit, and we have a bunch of new shows that we think are going to hit them, and so we want
to give those shows the best chance possible. So we've saved a lot of our marketing money, you know, to promote priorities like Sullivan's Crossing, like Son of a Critch, like Inside the NFL, like f Boy Island, the sports on the weekend. So we're going to be putting a lot of money behind, you know, giving those shows a
great chance. And then what comes. As Dennis said, I mean, we have ten to fifteen unscripted series currently in production shooting all over the country, our unscripted teams visiting all these places, they're constantly out of the office. But we have a lot of really ambitious, exciting, new original, homegrown unscripted content coming and then also, you know, we have about five scripted series that are that are that are going that are co productions, that are independent productions that
are that got waivers and are being produced. And so we're really excited about homegrown, from scratch scripted content that's coming. And then for some of the acquisitions that we've made, be it you know, Sullivan's Crossing or some kind of a Critch, those shows are shooting second and third seasons and we are creatively involved as co producers on all
of those shows. So so our scripted team is crazy busy with a whole bunch of new stuff coming in the new year, and our unscripted team is busy, and we continue with sports. When can you inside the NFL? And you know, the SoundBite I like to say is this fall, the CW will have more scripted content on its schedule than any other broadcaster.
So if you had to give the best, like what you want the identity of the CW to be known as right now, and if you want to kind of leave it open for what it'll be in the future, what would you say?
Yeah, you know what our goal was certainly to try and get broader, and when you look at all the broadcast networks. I mean, we are broadcast. We're not a niche cable channel. We have to reach the largest audiences possible. We need those audiences to fall in love with us, and we want to spend a lot of time with us. But if you steal some of the magic of the
old CW, the CW was always a contrarian brand. There was always a more youthful brand, and I think there are some things in that world that we can put on the new CW. I think we're an underdog. I think that's a really nice place to be. We strive to be one of the you know to be big five network and all of our programming choices are pushing us there. And that's why we want comedy fans and adult drama fans, and sports fans and big unscripted fans
to all come here. And we are currently working on a channel redesign, not a new name, but a redesign that kind of feels elastic enough where all these things make sense all together and wraps up. But I love the idea of feeling different than the other broadcast networks, of maybe being a little more youthful in our tone, even at just so that everything feels different when you
come to the CW. But we are making broad choices, but also things that and you'll see in some of our newer announcements that haven't come out yet, some really contrarian things that I think the early days of Fox when they started things like married with Children that was just different than anybody else was doing. I think you're going to see a little of that coming as well.
But if we can be an underdog, a contrarian, a little more youthful, a way of combining audiences that might be in their fifties on linear and they should have a passionate connection to the CW, and then that same content reach a completely unduplicated, younger audience on streaming and make that all feel makes sense together. That's the goal.
So what have you all seen from next start in terms of your spend that you've been given, the access to content spend, marketing spend in this new CW.
I think Dennis nailed it before. I think you look out there at the media industry and a lot of people are contracting or hearing interviews that people give, or people aren't trying to get rid of assets. And then I look at the CW and gosh, I we have ten or twenty positions that we're hiring for. We're hiring, we're growing, We're spending tons of money on sports rights. We're investing in scripted and unscripted and like four hundred and fifty hours original content that'll be on the CW
next year. We're investing in our digital platforms. So I see, you know, I think a lot of people that come and pitch us these days are like, you guys are the only buyers in town, you know, as a joke. I think we're I think we're playing offense and that's exciting. That doesn't mean we can compete with Netflix budgets or Disney budgets, et cetera. We do have to be smarter and scrappier and find things that other in places other people aren't looking, and hit above our weight and have
a high batting average at the same time. But I think we're being very aggressive and playing offense.
Dennis has that it all affected the ideas of the path to profitability for the CW that were previously projected.
I don't think so.
I think that we you know that the entire company said, hey, sports is a way to drive asset value for the CW and probably the smartest you know component here visa you our local broadcasters. As you know, we have thirty plus CW stations, they've never had sports before. The MVPDs and the virtual MVPDs have made it clear that sports is really.
The driver of value for consumers.
We've been the beneficiary of a lot of rsns between their debt structures and the cable situation and bundles starting to decline dramatically that you know, imploded, and we've been the beneficiary of that. So I think our big boss, you know, Perry Sook, likes to say, hey, I want to play smart TV. I want to play moneyball, not interested in peak TV. That was something that Landgraft coined brilliantly at the time, and I think.
Everyone's pulling back from that. But it's time to play smart TV right now.
We'll be back with more from Brad and Dennis after this break.
And we're back with more from Brad Schwartz and Dennis Miller on the reinvention of the CW network.
I mean this was back in April, but with you all hiring your first ever chief digital officer, I want to know what that signals for the future of the CW. There are a lot of people, you know, talking about what the relationship with streaming would be post the sale, and I just want to know what you guys are planning going forward.
I mean, I think a couple of things. You know, Brad likes to say the CW needs to be everywhere, and I think, you know, a brand needs to be touching consumers everywhere. And as we're seeing, you get an audience, you know, just by way of past example, an audience or all American on the CW, an audience that is, you know, median age fifty nine, an audience that's median age twenty nine for all American on the CW digital platform, and then a top ten performing show on Netflix a
week later. So these shows have different audiences and different touch points and engagement. And I think a lot of people you know witness you know, Suits off of USA being the number one streaming show on Netflix today. So we made a big hire in Ashley Hovey coming out of Roku. We loved the experience and knowledge she came off of one of the top performing you know, avon platforms out there. You know, Jenny what Pluto and twob and free v and Roku are doing in terms of
driving audience awareness. They're now showing up on Nielsen reports here. So you're going to see over the next certainly you know, one to two years, and starting very soon, a very aggressive content acquisition strategy for the CW Digital. We're going to grow it was a bit of an afterthought under the previous owners, but generate a lot of impressions. So we're going to really focus on that twenty five to
forty year old spot. The app is being upgraded dramatically, so we have you know, kind of best in class vise are ther peers and then a lot of hours and half hours and programs, fast channels and just you know on demand programming that will supplement around that twenty five.
To forty year old base.
So that is you know, maybe one of the biggest growth opportunities for the CW.
Overall, and you're going to see.
The resources and people you know, put against that under Ashley's direction.
So with that, I want to know what the future any outside partnerships for streaming look like. As you all mentioned how well All American does on Netflix, So decision like that whenever that does come back what you see as those Is there more of a thought to wanting to own your own content and stream your own content or do you can those partnerships that have proved.
A successful I'll let that softball go to brand.
Yeah. You know, one of the one of the biggest challenges of the of the previous c W is they didn't have the rights to the content. The content was fabulous. But and as Dennis said in a week where Succession was had its finale and ted Lasso had its finale, uh, the All American on Netflix beat both of them on the Nielsen ratings, Like, we know that the CW can
create hits and uh. And one of the issues with the old CW is those rights, you know, were CBS rights and they were Warner rights, and so that kind of third, fourth, fifth, sixth window on this programming was never really credited back to the c W. And all the new content we're doing, both scripted and unscripted, all those rights are ours. And so as we decide, you know, the future of CW content after we've monetized it on linear and we've made the biggest hay with it on linear,
and we've monetized them our on our digital platforms. Those decisions of where else we can take that content to monetize it are now completely ours, and Ashley Hovey is working on a ton of strategies that can make sure that every CW show is watched by as many people as possible and that we are monetizing those connections everywhere it happens. So that's absolutely a top three strategy for the future of the Cwuh.
You know, you've got mid season not locked at all, because no one does, but you do have a plan moving forward, and I think looking at it, you have roughly half of those shows that you've listed are done in the can and can go, but several of them aren't. So I want to know, you know, with the ongoing strikes, how soon you all feel like you need to go back into production to be able to hit a mid season target for some of those and how soon you need to rethink those being part of that grouping.
We're we're in really really good shape. The strike impact that shows for us All American, All American Homecoming, Walker, Superman and Lois Librarians, which we announced at the upfront. Those shows are all you know, waiting for the strike to end. But you know, we have a ton of scripted content that is out there, co productions that that are that is our in production. That show Joan that
we talked about we're really excited about. That's a co production with the UK that Sophie Turner is starting in. That show just wrapped. That's going to be an Awards conversation piece that's just looking amazing. And then as we mentioned, we have a ton of unscripted content that we haven't even announced yet, but I'm sure Rob has a plan
for us to everybody know about that soon. But I mean, I look at our Q one, I'm looking at it right now, in our Q two, I mean we are solid right through to kind of Q three, So I think we're in good shape. And hopefully this strike ends really soon and we can get into production on all of those other amazing hit shows and have those come in Q three Q four, and it's gonna your real
solid year for the CW. I mean, we have new seasons of Son of a Critch, new seasons of Children and Everything, new seasons of Run the Verbs, new seasons
of Family Law and Family Law. Last week just on a Friday night, just killed it and then a ton of unscripted stuff that, as I said, we'll be announcing here momentarily, but we're we're in really good shape and we will maintain that kind of fifty to fifty scripted unscripted plus sports well into halfway through twenty twenty four without any problem.
So do you see, like, have you made multiple plans for what misseason click look at? Is there any chance that you couldn't make those dates you think if there was that happening, or are you really looking at these new unscripted shows biling that.
Yeah, I think we have a schedule that is set through Q two of twenty twenty four, so halfway through twenty twenty four, I think we're pretty solid, and you'll be seeing those announcements coming soon and then hopefully all the great and you know, hopefully the strike end and everyone can get back to work on these shows that we're also really excited about. And if those can come in the second half of next year, I think it's going to be, as I said, a really wonderful year.
Dennis. Do you see the Direct TV blackout if it continues to go through on next next our stations into September, how much that might affect your relaunch plans and what the wider reach of the CW looks like this fall.
It's not going to affect our relaunch plans.
We're hopeful that it gets concluded by around Labor Day here, and these things tend to happen around the NFL season, you know, kicking off in earnest, so we're hopeful about that there's a good resolution for both sides here, but we have no plans to alter the kickoff of our fall schedule. It tends to impact you know, all stations, all ratings at about thirteen to fourteen percent of you know,
your normally delivered on bians. But I think you know, reasonable heads will prevail and we'll all be back in business, you know, come Labor Day.
As you mentioned, some assets conversation going around in the whole environment right now. I know this came up on the earnings call and Perry was asked about it. But the chance that nextar could be looked at and seen as a potential buyer for ABC or CBS. What conversations like that out there in the media make you all think about when the CW is what you're focused on and what next ours said they are focused on.
Look, I think that the nice thing is is that we're in a very enviable situation because unlike our peers, we have you know where we have very low leverage, we have you know, really good cash flow, we have a really good margin business. We're not in streaming, which is a great advantage. Who would have thought, but it seems to be a great advantage for your cash flow balance sheet. We're heading into what is going to be a tumultuous, loud political year, which is always a boon
for local broadcasts. So uh, and we have a you know, a great mix of Fox, ABC, NBC, CBS, and CW station. So I like our you know, uh, our situation as it is. And as we're heading into after what has been you know, bumpy and challenging for everybody, are you know, our other peers have announced that they're going to probably
need to make strategic moves with their assets. And I think, you know, when we recently Perry recently hired Mike Beard from Fox who's had a front row seat for all of the you know, accomplishments and building that has gone on at Fox, and it will be the new.
President CEO starting early next week.
So uh, I think we're we're in a really good situation to look at everything that comes our way and continue to figure out, Hey, what's the best alignment of assets, you know, going forward here?
So I know Dennis has extended his contract, Brott, are you staying with us for the foreseeable future?
This is his last stagey, It's really a real point. But this is a wonderful, wonderful way to go out.
Oh am, I supposed to answer that question, yes, you're to question. Yes, I've I've never had more fun in my career. This is This has been absolutely thrilling. Like I think we've assembled a hell of a team.
We already talked about Ashley Hovey and she's a genius and an incredible executive. And Chris Pattuccini was the former CMO of HBO, is now running marketing for US and an amazing you had a BA and Tom Martin who worked for Katzenberg and worked for NBC. And Heather Olander is a superstar and one of the greatest unscripted executives in the entire industry. And Liz Wise, who runs our scripted team, who has done both current and scripted for some of the biggest CW scripted hits of all time
is running our scripted team. It's just it's a really amazing team that Dennis and I have been able to assemble. And I love it, and you know, I'll hitch my wagon to Dennis and just we'll keep rolling.
Yeah, Jenny, we are a team.
We've been a team before, and I couldn't do the things that I like to do without somebody with Brad's skill set and capabilities, you know, managing the day to day and his programming and marketing instincts. And I get to spend some time thinking about, you know, where we go from here and deal with some of the larger kind of business you know, dynamics here. So we found the right yin and yang. I feel very blessed to have Brad as my partner.
Brad, I know we had already talked about and I was pretty excited to hear. With Sullivan's crossing coming, there's that old CW connection with Chad, Michael Murray and Scott Patterson being in that series and then you all picking
up the Librarians. There's these touch points and then obviously the shows that you did were new and so I want to know, you know, with the straight being looming there, if there are other ways that you're trying to find to keep that running through to mid season two next spring and stuff with that still being a question mark, are there other acquisitions you're looking at other ways to have those little ties.
Look, we don't want to alienate an audience that we spent twenty years cultivating. It just can't be the only thing we do, right. It can be like one of five things that we do. We are currently in production on a scripted series that may or may not have a star from Riverdale, so little touch points like that are always in the back of our minds when we make casting decisions. How can we you know, maybe have a little bit of a nod uh to uh to to the old CW. But but it's certainly you know,
one of five things. As I said, there are some comedies that I'm that are coming that I feel harkened back to those early days of maybe those amazing African American comedy that used to do, you know, be on the old upn and so I think there will always be a little bit of that. And of course we have four huge shows coming back from the CW. So yeah, We always had that in the back of our mind to play in some of the places we've been successful as we look to grow into new places at the same time.
And then my last one is for both of you, which is I really did think it was very accurate to describe the CW, the upcoming CW as looking more and more like Fox, and even more so behind the scenes with all of your recent hires, one being very much from Fox. But the level and the caliber you
all yourselves of what the CW has right now. I want to if you all see the industry looking at you that way, yet, even if the schedule proves that way, if you've seen your reputation the way the CW is seen right now, do you see yourselves at that level with who you're talking to and how those conversations go. Where do you feel like you still have a ways to go before other people catch up with their opinion of the CW.
I would say, we you know, we are, we got a ways to go. We're just getting started. Purchase was in October, most of the team joining first of the year, just sports just coming on to the network. Uh, you know, it took obviously Fox a number of years before the they developed some really cool alternative shows, and then Rupert had the brilliant idea of which he was you know, questioned about, to bring the NFL to Fox, and that.
Really took it to a whole other level. So, you know, we're just getting started.
I think we know some things are hopefully some things are going to work, and a lot of things are not going to work, and we're going to fail fast and then put on things that work. But no, we've got we got work to do. We've got a long standing tradition that we want to, as Brad said, be sensitive to, but now kind of build on. We're gonna, you know, I think hopefully have the benefit of seeing what some of our you know, competitors are doing and what's working or not.
We're realigning the stations in a way.
Where we have the best kind of distribution architecture out there and put the best people in place. But we know this is a you know, this is a half marathon, it's not a sprint, so we've got to you know, we're just we're just getting up to the starting line and get ready to go.
But we have we have a lot of work to do.
It's it's execution time now. You know, we've laid out some plans for Phase one and it really is just a phase one and now it's now it's a go to prove it. Now, let's go execute, and we have the right team to do it. And after phase one we'll get more into homegrown development, we'll get our digital strategy, you know, rolling, and it's the right team to do it. And it's a really exciting, exciting time now and looking forward to the future.
How many phases do we have plotted out right now?
Thirty eight?
Thirty eight, Oh no, well ahead of Marvel's just really up long term. Well, it's always are speaking to you guys. Thank you so much for giving me this much time today. I appreciate it. Thank you for joining us for this week's episode of Variety Strictly Business. You can find new episodes weekly on Apple Podcasts.