National Geographic Leader Sees Growth Ahead Under Disney Ownership

joint venture with the nonprofit National Geographic Society. Nell, who has headed nat Geo since late two thousand thirteen, offers his insight into how nat Geo fits into Disney's larger plan to launch a global streaming platform. He also reflects on Fox's stewardship of the nat Geo brand. The partnership

the two struck back in race. Some eyebrows at the start, but Nell, who ran Sesame, Workshop and NPR before he came to nat Geo, the is flatly that the storied magazine and society might not exist today if it hadn't expanded into cable television back in Gary Nell, chairman of National Geographic Partners, thank you so much for coming in during what what must be a very busy time for you. It's great to be here. I don't know what you're

talking about. Well, National Geographic, like most of the rest of twenty century Fox, is just about to be formally absorbed by the Walt Disney Company, and the Disney Company has no shortage of ambition for what it's going to do with these new assets. As everybody in the media world knows they are launching their you know, the goal is to launch a major streaming platform that will eventually

be global. As you sit at the helm of National Geographic Partners, the partnership between what is now what will be Disney and the National Geographic Society, what do you see on the horizon for the brand with this you know, incredible merger and this ambitious energy behind behind launching these brands in the streaming we are super excited, I mean,

to be joining up with the Walt Disney Company. Nobody manages brands better than they do um and you know, we've been now put out forward already as one of five core brands along with Star, Wars and Picks are in Marvel and Disney and National Geographic. So we're really

excited about that. And as Bob Iger and all of his colleagues repositioned Disney towards more of a direct to consumer business, I think, UM, we're perfectly positioned to UM to be part of that portfolio and connect with this tribe of curious people around the world, which is what National Geographic has been about for over a hundred and thirty years. How do you think, UM, how do you think do you have a sense of what it will

look like on day one? For the service? Will will not Will National Geographic be offered as a I feed as it exists now? Will it be all V O D Do you have a sense of that? Well? And you know, first of all, National Geographic Partners is a joint venture between Fox Today, Disney you know soon next week and UH and the National Geographic Society, which is

a nonprofit UM. And we will be positioned to be able to have of course, our linear service continuing, which is in a hundred and seventy countries around the world and is very successful, one of the most widely distributed quote unquote cable channels in the world. UM. And and then we'll be on the streaming services about Disney Plus and Hulu most likely to be on demand type programming

that um, you can pull up rather than streaming. And I think at the beginning, and I think part of the plan is to have a lot of amazing library and original content that will be exclusive to Disney Plus. And we're just beginning to get our arms around that. You know, we haven't been able to really do that before the closing for legal reasons. UM. And now that the closing is about to happen, we'll we'll be on

our way. Can you remember, let's go back just about eighteen months when the word first surfaced about Disney and Century Fox coming together. Do you remember what you thought at the time. A lot of us, including me, it took a bit to wrap our heads around it. Can you tell me what the reaction was internally? Well, I remember sort of hearing from our colleagues at one CF like these rumors you've been hearing about are true, and

and it was like, oh, and I think everyone was surprised. Um. You know, this was really I think um invented in many ways by Bob and and Rupert Murdoch. UM and UM. They they came to a meeting of the minds, UM. And once you wrapped your head around it, Cynthia, I think UM it made a lot of sense for both parties. I think Fox in some ways decided that this arms race in Hollywood, even being a sixty plus billion dollar company, UM was going to be hard to compete against Netflix

and Amazon and everyone else. UM and Disney was able to bulk up with their amazing firepower they had already and now adding the Fox assets to to what they had already becomes a real UM, you know, competitor and and perhaps the winner in that in that race going forward. So I think it made a lot of sense for both parties. And then UH and then Fox I think can work on its core brands that it has traditionally been in, including news and sports and and the network

and the O N O S and everything else. So I think it made sense for a lot a lot of people. I would also say that Fox has been

a fantastic partner for National Geographic. There's an incredibly creative culture UM and our UH you know, our partners and Peter Rice and and Lachlan and James Murdoch and everyone had been super supportive of National Geographic UM and have given us capital to invest in programming and and really turn loose our creative assets, and um, so I think part of it is is a little bit bitter sweet in the sense that the the creative freedom that Fox has given us is you know, we're going to now

turn to a new partner and I'm sure we will have um that creative freedom as well, but you know, it's always a change, and um we're looking forward to it, but I think we'll miss we'll miss some of that freedom that that Fox gave us. It's interesting that you say that because going on twenty years ago, when Fox and National Geographic came together, there was a lot of wow Rupert Murdoch, who had a reputation for a different kind of journalism and a more you know, and more

sensationally sensationalistic take on the world. And there were definitely some eyebrows raised, but in your experience that you know that they were, they were in fact supportive. They did not try to tell you to sex up the magazine or put you know, put supermodels on National Geographic television. Yeah, somebody had sent me a picture of um, a mock up of what they thought it could be common. It was a picture of a dolphin and it said dolphins who needs them, you know, so I think that that

I never came to fruition. I would There wasn't one instance that I know of quote unquote editorial interference. I think, you know, the one thing about Foxes, they as we've seen from their television network and f X and the other the movie studio. There's a reason why they've won all these awards. And there's a reason why. Um, these these creative enterprises have spawned some amazing shows over the years, like Modern Family and The Simpsons and This is Us

and all kinds of things coming out of there. That it's about creative freedom. And I think they they they stand for that. And I think they decided to double down on National Geographic, and I would have I would say this, um that you know, without the cable invest minute that was made twenty years ago was long before my time. Uh, there's a good chance National Geographic wouldn't be around today. I mean I think we were, you know, we were a print magazine with a legacy, um and

we all know where print magazines are today. We're in a better place than many others, but it's tough and without that investment of resources, who knows where we would have been the television revenue and cash flow. Is that significant to the society. I mean it's not a surprise, but interesting to hear you say that. Is there any part of you that is happy to be You're gonna

be distanced from Fox News? Had it ever been tense to have Fox beingder the same corporate umbrella as Fox News, given that there is a lot of often a lot

of criticism of the of the of that channel's programming. Yeah, I mean we were able to I think access Fox News, and I was able to get a number of our explorers and journalists who are covering issues like wildlife trafficking and other things onto those platforms that reach an audience that perhaps the you know, the traditional media hasn't reached.

So I viewed it as an opportunity. Look, I think National Geographic is one of these UM nonpartisan UM enterprises, and we've been able to to actually be popular among the left and the right. UM. If you look at our subscriber base, we have a lot of a lot a lot of subscribers in red states as well as blue states, and I think there's a reason for that, UM that we're trying to appeal towards UM people's better instincts, and I think being able to access Fox News was

part of that strategy. Um. We you know, we're looking forward to a new relationship with ABC News, UM with Disney, and we've we've got some great ideas about how we can work together on some on some issues going forward. How um, So it sounds like in terms of in terms of you know, we're hearing that there is a just a general a big acceleration of production activity across

Disney and the Fox folks are preparing. It sounds like you all are also, you know, know know that you're going in with some marching orders to develop some really high end exclusive content for these streaming platforms. Yes, so we'll you know, we're super excited. I think, you know, Kevin Mayer and Bob and everyone at Disney are you know, doubling down on direct to consumer. And I think that the Street is understands this, UM and they want National

Geographic to be a very important part of that. So, whether we can unleash the creative energy that Courtney Monroe and her colleagues on the channel of have been doing and winning a bunch of Emmy nominations and now Academy Awards are Free Solo and an incredible documentary that really literally climbed the height of the film documentary world, which we're you know, so proud of and just being able

to be at the Bathtas and the Academy Awards and winning. Um, you know, you feel like a little kid sort of. But it's um, you know, I think we can bring that kind of quality now to the Disney Plus and plat Form and we're being you know, very encouraged to do that. How are you? You know, one of the big one of the one of those sort of groundbreaking things about about these streaming platforms is their ability to be global. Can you talk about how not Geo is

set up internationally? Is there much differentiation in your many international channels? Yeah, so we I'm a big believer having worked in the media space and international brands like Sesame Street, which I oversaw for a long time. Localization is critically important and you've got to make these channels locally relevant.

So we have you know, we have what I would call embassies around the world, and you walk into some of these offices Cynthia and Istan Bull and in Delhi where I was just last week, UM and they're like shrines to National Geographic. It's pretty amazing, and with people who are religiously connected to this brand, but in a

localized way. So our Turkish or our Indian or our Mexican colleagues are Argentinean colleagues are producing some local content to give a contect a context that's relevant to local audiences wherever they are. UM just an example, last week, we launched a show in India about six incredible women from the Indian Navy who have circumnavigated the globe and we had the we had the top Navy admiral at this event at a girls school. You know, it was front page News and the Times of India. And that's

I think where National Geographic can play. And it's about getting these big global productions like Genius and uh Free Solo out there, but it's also having some localized content that can be relevant to people that I just just overseeing all of that activity in spots around the globe that must require quite a quite a staff and an infrastructure. You have a lot of boots on the ground. We do, and you know that's been one of the advantages at twenty one CF brought to to our world and being

able to access their talents. So when we you know, when we did this deal, we were able to take advantage of the whether it's the Star TV India folks, or whether the twenty one CF talent base in Argentino or Mexico or wherever. We were able to harness their great executive talent and production talent to be able to get out there, and we imagine the same under Disney. And Disney has got a huge global footprint which we're

super excited about. And and we've already had some you know, preliminary conversations with London and and Latin America and Asia to try to figure out how we can reposition national geographic and push it forward on an international basis. You know, about half of our revenues come from outside the United States and that GEO. So it's a very important part of our future. Is that the magazine and all the television and digital assets too. It's about it's about that

both exactly. Yeah, I interest saying well, all of that international you know, bespoke international programming sounds like gold for somebody wanting to launch a high end international streaming service exactly. And now I think you know, where we've got to do. It pushes on the digital side. Um, if you look at our footprint and social media Cynthia Cynthia, we're the number one social media brand friendss on Instagram in the world. We just passed a hundred and two million followers. We

just passed Nicki Minaj. We're very you know, and we're catching up to Justin Bieber. So we're very excited about that right now. Completely counterintuitive in a world where people think, oh my god, we are so focused on the most inane things and people and and forgive me for slamming folks, but you know, that's so counterintuitive to where we think that, like the cultures, focus is what drives it, is your

is it your personalities? Is it your climbers and the people that just adventurers and explorers that do these incredible things. A lot of that, I think is photography. And people are so visual, you know, they're so visual now and because of smartphones, I think in man ways have have

made everyone a photographer. To see the best photographers in the world posts their content and national geographics social media pages is so inspiring for for people and just you know, being in India, there's ten million people on our Instagram accounts just in India, right, So it's a big footprint around the world for NA Geo and you, I would imagine you guys have worked to harness that platform and

get you know, get the word out about programs and initiatives. Yeah, and to the point where Instagram actually sent us balloons for our anniversary for hitting a hundred million. And I don't think Instagram is known for, you know, saluting all their partners for doing stuff. So we're very proud of those balloons. Thank you, Instagram. That's gay. I'm glad they're

paying attention. Are there other um, are there other opportunities that you see to monetize your library you have just even on the video side, you have a rich, rich, rich and deeper. Is there are their efforts? Have there been efforts underway in the past that may now change under the Disney regime. Yeah, you know, I'm not I

don't know how much it will change. I think it will give us some new opportunities to take advantage of the Disney powerful business activities in areas that um Fox wasn't really in, like theme parks, you know, consumer products, UM travel, uh and other areas that Disney is incredibly strong in So we plan to work with our colleagues of Disney to take advantage of that. And we think a national geographic offering within their framework will be just

really exciting. So we think that there's big opportunities for growth there. Um, we're in those places now, but we think we could grow those a lot under Disney. You must have, you know, certainly knowing Courtney Monroe, who runs your channels, has such a such a solid brand filter. But to do it must be with the brand like GEO that stands for so much of science and incredibility

more than anything else. That that yellow box. You've got to you must have really careful decisions about things you go into because the last thing you want to do is kind of sully that that gilded yellow box. Yeah. I learned a long time ago, Cynthia, that the CEO of an organization is really the chief brand officer at the end of the day, and you're the one who's going to be responsible if if the brand is violated.

And I you know, my experience has been as sesame or NPR here that um, you know, the public knows when you violate the brand, when you go outside the border and they call you on it. And so there's almost a social policing of these brands about where people

connect to it and when you violate that through some association. Um, you know, you know, so I think having kind of spiky sense to use our new colleagues at Marvel I p spiky sense around where those boundaries are is what we would like to make sure we're on top of it. With so many I mean, you have the high class

problem of having so many social media followers. It must be it must be a full time job for people just to kind of watch what the reaction is and what people are saying about your content and your your initiatives. Do you you you really get a lot of feedback from what people say online? Does that influence decision making? We have no shortage of feedback, um, and we love

each and every comment. So uh. Now we have a great team of people who have come from different places New York Times, Time Magazine, you know, the Atlantic all over who have been part of, um, you know, the growth of social media, and they're just so super excited

about being a national geographic. I mean it's one of these places where you have to pinch yourself sometimes and feel how lucky you are to be able to work for content organization that's literally in the you know, saving the planet business, which is which is way cool compared to other things that you could be doing. Yeah, it's not a bad way to spend your day. Um, we've been talking a lot about global streaming, but what about the old fashioned US linear cable business. It feels very

much under strain. Have you guys felt that with the nat Gio or any of the Nagio wild are the offshoots? Well, I think Courtney, who's doing a terrific job, has um, you know, carved out a really good strategy around building what you know, what's been called two point oh content. Internally, I think nat GEO in some ways a few years ago and when I showed up there, uh five and a half years ago, was kind of chasing the reality TV um bandwagon and that what First of all, I

think that was off brand for us. That's not what our tribe wants. But but more importantly, as we moved now towards channels that affiliates are going to be willing to pay for in a very stressed environment to keep these cable bundles going, you've got to produce content that people are talking about. And and this is why John land Graph at FFX and other people have done such a great job in getting award winning content that is is a conversation starter. So there was literally a kid

at the Toronto airport the other day. He was yelling at his mom, you know, I want to see free solo. I couldn't make this up, right, I wish I had my camera? Did I Did I just hear that? Right? Did you want my god? You know? I was very exciting. The kid was like advertising, you can't, right. So I know that there's a buzz, and I know that buzz is probably going to get back to a T and

T or Comcast, you know. And I think that's where the affiliate relationships are really important, uh and where we've got to drive that. So part of it is a ring ratings, but part of it is also delivering I think word of mouth. So these things people will be willing to pay for your channel versus a lot of other channels that are not conversation uh starters out in

the world. And once again, I mean that that brand that just says so much national geographic or even that geo in a channelst thing like you know, you know what you're getting, and you know it's almost it's it's it's part of the daily diet that that kind of factual and you know, sort of high end documentary programming. Yeah, exactly. And you know, we've got some amazing programming coming up. This one Hostile Planet is coming, which is incredible nature documentary.

We've got The Hot Zone with Julianna Margalie's. I mean, we're really doubling down on um high end content that people are going to want to really tune in for or access in in an on demand platform. And you've had you've you've made some waves in the kind of in the awards arena the last couple of years with your gene Is franchise started with Albert Einstein and and then moved on to Picasso with Antonio Banderas and from what we understand your your next will be, uh the

Legend area Aretha Franklin. That's true. So we've had a quick coming great. We've had a wonderful relationship with Ron Howard and Brian Grazer and Imagine and um Our head Carolyn Bernstein who oversees that out on the West Coast. UM has really done a terrific job working with show runners and and uh, you know, and casting the top talent in the world who want to who want to

work for National Geographic, you know they. I think it's a brand that people are viewing now as a as a as a place to be, and that's what we wanted to create, and that's what this brand deserves to have. Those, as I understand, to the narrative, the big swings on scripted programming, those have real traction for you in the in the video on demand UM arena. You know, obviously they draw an audience in the live viewing, but from what I understand, those those really have great legs for you. Yeah.

And so when I'm sitting on a plane is I was, and the guy next to me, who I didn't know is watching Genius Picasso, I'm going like, Okay, this is cool. Right, So that's reach, you know, and um, I think that that's part of it. Look, I think we're moving Cynthia from a prefixed environment of content to an olive card environment of content, not just for long form video or television or movies, but also if you think about newspapers or magazines, UM where there was an editor kind of

creating a prefixed menu of things. Now we're in an all acart menu of things that's being tailored to your needs. And the question for us, or Variety or anyone else is how do you break through the clutter to be able to reach Cynthia's inbox so to speak, that UM will make you pay attention and want to access that content. We're peating against every piece of content ever invented in the history of humankind every night, whether it's Gone Gone

with the Wind or a cat video. Right, So the question is how do you get National Geographic the hot zone and get that into people's inboxes so that they will tune in and be engaged around that program and hopefully want to learn more about the issues that that show is going to cover. Before you came, so you came to Nagio at the end of two thousand thirteen. Before that you served stinted inn PR and before that you had a long run twenty two years at Sesame Workshop.

What did your experience working particularly with the Sesame Workshop brands the Muppets. I would imagine that that would have probably been a great education in in branding and the you know, having a brand that is so beloved and being a brand steward for something that is so beloved by now generations of families. Yeah, well, I mean having I could still do a pretty good count upon count invitation.

So uh, you know the legacy of Sesame Street, which is going to have its fiftieth anniversary this year, it's pretty incredible. Um is something that you just are there to protect but also grow. And what Sesame Street taught me and Joan ganz Kuoni was such a mentor to me over the years. Joan always stood for reinvention and disruption. Um. And she she disrupted television by using the power of TV to teach. Where it was viewed when I was growing up is kind of the idiot box. Remember it

was called that maybe we should bring that back. I'm not sure um and now uh And and she really reinvented it to teach letters and numbers and social and emotional learning. And so it was really the power of TV to to teach. It wasn't a question of whether

it was teaching a what was it teaching. So I've always taken that lesson and applied it to you know, using that the power of content to whether it's teach or touching people or emotionally moving them, whether it's with preschoolers, or informing the public and NPR or engaging people around issues that are important at National Geographic I think, you know, it's a trust that you have as the executive running these enterprises, that UM which has a responsibility and UM

that's how I've always tried to run these organizations, and you know, and there's a reason why they're still around after you know, many many years, where other people have fallen off the tracks. Well. As a fan of many of those brands, I want to thank you for being a good steward of them and good luck. It's I'm sure it's going to be a very it's going to be a wild ride for you in the next couple of months in that integration. Thank you so much for

taking time to people. It's really great to be here. Thanks so much, Thanks for listening. Be sure to tune in next week for another episode of Strictly Business. M