Welcome to Strictly Business Varieties, weekly podcast featuring conversations with industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm Cynthia Lyttleton, co editor in chief of Variety. Today. My guest is Taylor K. Shaw. Shaw is the newly hired senior Outreach Lead for Film at Kickstarter. She's also an
independent producer and an entrepreneur who leads BWA Studios. Shaw's hire is a sign that Kickstarter wants to elevate the activity that is generated on the platform by professional filmmakers. Kickstarter is not only a place to generate money for projects, it can also be an engine of engaging with fans and keeping them connected to projects and franchises. Shaw is in the midst of a festival tour to talk to industry insiders about how Kickstarter can bring them production funding
and more. But don't call it a donation. Shaw explains why in the conversation that is coming right up after this break and we're back with my conversation with Taylor Ka Shaw, Senior Outreach Lead for Film for Kickstarter. Taylor Ka Shaw, newly appointed head of Film for Kickstarter. Thank you so much for joining me on this slightly rainy day in New York.
Thank you for having me and very very much so looking forward to our conversation.
Tell me about what's your mandate coming in and what was it about this job that attracted you to coming to Kickstarter.
The mandate coming in is to bring awareness two filmmakers who are established, who have that built in audience, to bring awareness that Kickstarter has a long standing legacy of supporting prolific talent and really helping them fund and launch their careers, like the likes of Anisa Ray or Phoebe Wallerbridge.
And so it really brought me here is the alignment between my passion for building strong infrastructure for artists to thrive and really seeing the need in this moment for all artists, all filmmakers, whether you're emerging or established, the need to be creatively independent.
You go right to the heart of it is that there is a sense that Kickstarter is for the person that has been writing a script in their basement and making super eight films and now has a great idea and really wants to get out there, not for an established showrunner an established screenwriter. But you're just telling me that that is wrong.
Yes, the most recent example is with The Apprentice you know, which now has two Oscar nominations, and they had a lot of success at con they and Tell You Ride, and they still had a lot of difficulty with getting distribution for the film, and so they turned to Kickstarter to really prove that the audience, the community, folks want to see this film and it means something to folks.
And they did prove that, raising one hundred thousand and just twelve hours and then overall four hundred thousand for the marketing of the film.
Let me let's take let's use that as an example, because obviously that was a very controversial film some both financial considerations and unavoidably political conversations. Variety covered a lot about The Apprentice, so we're very definitely, very well aware. So when the first of all, how do you know, and this might have predated your joining Kickstarter, but did somebody at Kickstarter reach out to people involved with the film and say, hey, we might be able to help
or did they was that organic? Did they immediately go to Kickstarter when they realized they were going to need some help in bringing in some money pretty quickly.
So they came to Kickstarter, which I think is really special because that only happens if you are aware of the power of the platform and what is possible when you allow for your community to participate and uplift your work. So they took advantage of an opportunity to utilize our platform, and that's one that every if you just look a little bit more into our history, and I hope to
share that more here with you today. But if you look into it, you can make a campaign and really reach out to those who care about your work, and it can sing, and so they take it upon themselves to take their power back and start a grassroots movement.
Let me ask you the question that I've always had with around crowdsourcing and these types of platforms. If the people that are contributing to these funds, if the people are doing it in fact to get a return on investment, how do you track that, especially over the life cycle of something like a film.
What is fabulous about Kickstarter is that our backers, the backer community, they're not looking for a return on investment. They are really looking to be a part of films, creative projects that mean something to them. A great example was with hair Love. You know that Oscar winning short that went on to be a mac series for hair Love.
When that wind happened on you know, social media, everyone who backed the Kickstarter campaign was like, I was a part of this film, like you know, we want an oscar. And so that is what the backer community at Kickstarter is looking for. There is actually no equity exchange. What they receive is rewards. Those rewards are ways for them to be calm or receive something that allows for them to be more deeply engaged in in the process, in life cycle of the other projects.
It is. It is interesting and it's an it's an interesting evolution in fandom that this kind of access and this kind of opportunity to be part of something. Thinking like a lawyer, like, are there are there any unexpected
downsides that the company has had to deal with? Are there people that come back and then claim some kind of authorship because they you know, I guess I'm asking the Devil's advocate question in terms of in terms of any kind of like rights or authorship or just claims after the fact.
You know, from the very beginning to backers and two artists, the real draw for artists is knowing that their IP is their IP and we allow for full creative control when that is not the norm. Creative ownership is not the you know norm in the traditional funding, the traditional studio model, definitely not. Yes, So our backers know that from the beginning of supporting a project, and that's very
clearly laid out for everyone. The true I you know, with the filmmakers I speak to, I really when they express this sentiment that's concerned about, you know, how exactly does this work. I've only you know, hit the pavement the streets of LA trying to make it in the traditional way. What I say is everyone is not an artist. Everyone is not a filmmaker. So everyone doesn't have that unique ability to tell a story that resonates and that
really helps us see each other as human beings. Everyone doesn't have that skill, and so you are offering to people the opportunity to participate and to say that I have furthered this creative project that deeply means something to me, that I see the power and potential of this particular
artist as well. So the exchange that's there is you know, of course, the rewards piece, but it's really this opportunity to be a part of something greater for the backer and for the filmmaker the opportunities to continue to build time and time again with that dedicated global community that we have a Kickstarter.
It's incredible that the amount of boundaries, the boundaries that can sort of be erased by this ability. Let me ask you, how is it.
How is this money.
Treated on a tax basis for a filmmaker? Is it considered a donation?
So folks do have to pay their taxes and so you know through the platform, when you know, once you receive whatever you know, funding you've been able to raise, you do you do then have to pay your taxes. So that's something that filmmakers should account for. But there's there's no surprise there.
Right that you cannot outrun the I R s And it is that time of year.
Absolutely, yeah, absolutely, there's robust resources across our platform on and we've increasingly just or recently rolled out products that will continue to support filmmakers and make this entire process
less intimidating to filmmakers. But with these new products and the resources that we've had available online previously, folks can learn how to you know, manage your campaign from pre launch all the way through the entire process, how to really engage or backer community and how to fulfill those rewards and yes, also how to manage taxes. All of those resources are available on our platform.
It's interesting. And so as you start this, as you start your job, you just recently joined the company at the I believe it that toward the end of last year, as you start this, where are you going to kind of spread the word and sort of what is your message directly to filmmakers once again, like why should they come to Kickstarter.
And these times especially it's greenlight yourself, greenlight yourself. That's the opportunity here in working with our platform, working with us and again we have this legacy of supporting artists that I believe to be truly prolific. And that's what has attracted me to wanting to be a part of
this mission that is very altruistic. You know, here at Kickstarter, there's a couple of examples from the Veronica Mars movie all the way to following the career and trajectory of folks like Ania da Costa, who had Little Woods, you know, on our platform and that went on to streaming at Hulu, and then she directed the classic kind of horror film Candy Man, and then onto a Marvel.
Movie, the biggest of the big studio pictures.
Yeah, the biggest of the big you know, everybody's dream. But she didn't let. The folks who utilize and work with, you know, our platform, they don't let. They don't wait around for somebody to say yes to them. They green light themselves. And so coming into this role in this new year, what's going to be really big for us is engaging creators, Engaging filmmakers with built in audiences, those fan bases across genre, animation, horror, thriller, comedy. That's going
to be really huge for us. Along with supporting short films, we have our long standing program Long Story Short every March that you know that that we launch to support and further short films because that is where we see, of course a lot of the next generation of filmmakers being active. So we'll always support the next generation. And also we are really wanting established artists to know like it is very possible for you to thrive and working with our platform, you have.
Like a March madness of short films.
It sounds like exactly, that's exactly what it is.
That's do you are? They promoted it all on the Kickstarter platform, how had it.
Yes, we balked to you by yes, yes, exactly. We go hard for our short program across our platform, across our social and those long story short creators that emphasis, they found a lot of success. I mean, one of them is going to be at south By Southwest presenting her film this year. So it's a really strong program where we've seen folks go on to Sundance, to south By and other festivals.
With so much production happening outside the US, in particular, there's such an appetite for co productions within that there's all kinds of different ways to piece together financing, and an environment where people are piecing together financing, there's going to be more appetite and more openness to different, you know, all different forms of bringing in the dollars or euros or whatever the you know, whatever the currency.
May be exactly. And what we have seen is that folks do go both the traditional funding models and also utilize Kickstarter. We do seamlessly integrate into the overall creative process. If you're making a feature film and you need funds for post it like the marketing campaign you know, example of The Apprentice, or if you want to raise fully for your feature or even series like folks do that on our platform and they have found a lot of success.
Where I should know this. Where is Kickstarter based? Give me a sense of the scope of the organization that runs.
So the company started in New York and now it's fully remote, fully remote, and you know a lot there's still a lot of us based here in New York. I Hill from Brooklyn. But yeah, we are a global company with the global reach and over twenty million repeat backers on the platform, and those folks are from all over the world, and so we are very engaged in how we can be really engaging those backers across our platform to the film category.
And this just question occurred to me. You have people that donate in various currencies, correct, Yes, Yes, that in and of itself itself must be a management.
Yes, and we're really great at it. We're really great at it. And I also would like to just like reframe the language of donation because I think, particularly for filmmakers, it is important for everyone to note the exchange, the relationship that we're fostering on the platform and how they're able to really build the trust with their backer community, their audience time and time again by utilizing our platform.
It's really important. It's a difference, but I think it, you know, my one on one conversations kind of hitting the ground running at Sundance and soon to be at south By. It's really important for the industry to recognize.
That, don't go anywhere. We'll be right back with more from Taylor case Jaw right after this break, and we're back with more from Kickstarter executive Taylor case Shaw. Do you offer any kind of a tiered access if you if you pay more for a certain level of access, do you get in a certain level of support? Is that part of one of the things that you're talking to people about.
Yes, Tiered access or tiered rewards is a huge piece of the draw for both the artists that utilize the platform and backers. And so you know, you can offer everything from a pen that is, uh, people go crazy, people go crazy for the pens all the way to you know, a director's workshop all the way to like a producer credit, and so that is really important to
the backer community. I think, especially for film is how can they be able to say like, hey, I was a part of this very special project that is now you know, doing a large festival run and has like meaningful distribution.
Do you I know as an industry professional that you know that this there's a lot of adjudication that goes on with the guilds and different organizations around credits. Is that is that something that you've had to navigate in terms of in terms of if the if the artist wants to do that kind of credit, there's got to be ways to do it. But then there's also like people lay people would be surprised if the amount of
energy that goes into adjudicating credits for obvious reasons. These are from the heart and soul of people that you know put everything into it. But that general issue, I'm sure you've had to deal.
With absolutely, and you can't always give those out and so every filmmaker you know doesn't. But there are a tons of rewards that it is possible to give your back up community that makes them feel engaged in the project. So so yeah.
Yeah, it's very it's very interesting. Let me ask you about your background. Before you know, you were a recent person to have joined Kickstarter. Before that, you were part of a company. You helped launch a company called Black Women Anime that you did a lot of very interesting You did brand work, you did some short films, some interstitial work for companies like A and E Networks, Hulu, HBO, Netflix,
just some little little companies out there. Talk about how that experience of launching a company, being being in the business of selling content and making content, how that has helped prepare you for the job they have now.
Yeah, so I'm still operating BWA Studios, So.
That hasn't that that's not on the side right now, that is still an active Yeah.
Still operating it. And also when this opportunity opened up, I couldn't say no. Is really like a yes, yes yes for me because I'm deeply committed to building and structure for for artists to thrive. And that's because I am an artist myself, and I know just how hard it is to get exciting, adventurous work made in this traditional system. I've had for slip deals, I've had agents, you know, I've done and I've tried to poke that
bear so many times. And the animation company is independent and I originally started it because I was looking to make an animated series about millennials who are too woke
to get real jobs. Yes, so they've come up with all these crazy side hustles to get money for their art, and they just so happened to be black women, you know, women of color, and it was just so difficult to find you know, black female animators that could work on the on the project with me, and so then a studio formed, and so just and through that entire process of creating dependently working inside and outside of the studio system.
My heart is with filmmakers and I this is this is a meaningful part of my journeys to be able to be a part of Kickstarter and help grow this legacy in future.
Have you to date in running Black Women Anime b w A studios? Have you used Kickstarter or any kind of crowdsourced funding.
We haven't yet. I have really hit the pavement getting all kinds of funding, but we haven't yet. But it's great about Kickstarter is that everyone is encouraged to be creative. And we do have folks at Kickstarter who've run campaigns and so you never know, you really never know. I am both focused on supporting all of the filmmakers that come to us on our platform, and I also committed to creating because I think it's simp ordant to create and have that information and then be able to impart
that onto the experiences that we have with filmmakers. So who knows, TBD, I still need to make that show because again that's and that just tells you how hard it is. I mean it's been almost a decade. That shows you how hard it is to get your your work made. So so yeah, I am so pro a potential campaign in the future.
Let's step back again. What was it that led you You have both a business brain and a creative brain, which is a rare combination. What was it that led you to the you know, the work of being an animator, the work of being creative, and has led you to to you know, what you've done so far.
Yes, I have a journalism degree, and I'll spare you all of the details about how I landed in television and film. But I started to work on different TV shows and and film sets and then later doing producing for Viceland, Vice Media's TV channel, and so within all of that, there was just so much content that I wasn't seeing that I felt, you know, could be out there, and so I was always pitching fresh ideas that you know, what about this, what about this filmmaker, what about this creator?
And so that has been the foundation of my career, kind of seeing the gaps and wanting to in a meaningful and genuine way provide an opportunity for for artists to get their things made, to get their their films made. And so that, you know, my my creative journey and my business journey have always been very closely linked because yeah, I think just it's really important. And again I'm attracted to Kickstarter because of that altruism of we want to
see you create no matter what. And that's that's the foundation.
Of my as a business owner and at b w A. What what is the stuff that you that you like doing the most? Is it the is it the creative development? Is it the marketing? Is it the get you know? Is it? Is it the pitching?
I think about this a lot. I think about it a lot because in our world we really try to put it, We try to put folks in a box. And like you said, it is a it is a rare combination to you know, love building business and you know, be be okay at it and also uh creating and being an artist. And so I love having the opportunity to inspire, and I believe for me that comes from both business and art. So my brain goes to scaling quite often. And also I'm in as as a New
Yorker who I'm just so inspired by life. So whenever inspiration for me, it sparks equally on both sides when it comes to business and when it comes to when it comes to art. So again, this was like a divine timing for me, this this role here with Kickstarter opening up, because I'm constantly in creative conversation with amazing filmmakers who are going to make their work no matter what.
That inspires me as an artist and also inspires me on the business front because I'm just so driven to ensure that they are successful.
And I'm sure you've a great perch to see a lot of different strategies at going at it.
Yeah, so many strategies, And my brain then goes to, like, how can we codify all of this? So a lot of these, you know, really important and the questions that you're asking about the process and the how that folks just know, Oh, I'm just I'm gonna run that Kickstarter. I'm gonna run the kickstarter campaign. It makes a lot of sense.
What in your experience has made for a really successful Kickstarter campaign? What does a filmmaker an artist have to bring the table to really resonate, especially if they're not, you know, already kind of a boldface name, but they're coming up.
Yeah. So, folks who do have a community and audience, a fan base, our platform is really primed for them to succeed. Absolutely, and also for emerging talent that is trying to get out there. We have, as I shared, the twenty million plus backers across our platform. We have the resources and tools to tell them how to run a very successful campaign and then the infrastructure to support
them with engaging their community. And so you know, what you really need is I think the confidence and the drive to do it no matter what for emerging talent, and they've seen a ton of success in launching their careers on the platform along with established folks. If you already have that built in base, you can expect to see them show up for you utilizing our platform. A really great example is Critical Role. They had a really
great online presence. They wanted to make an animated film and they did the Legend of Ox Machina, which ended up making its way to Amazon Prime. They raised eleven point three million with eighty eight thousand, almost eighty nine thousand backers coming to support them. And so that's a real testament to fostering community and audience and then you know your our platform is trusted, you're able to bring them over to us. Last thing I'll say is for
emerging talent. You know, we live in this world of social media, and you know, everybody, everybody as a million followers.
And everybody lives every second of their lives on social media.
It seems yes, and I think the I think folks are moving away from that. That's another conversation. But you know, really you don't need a million followers. You need one thousand people who get your work and want to support it and who will back you with that with the knowledge of like I supply this person's work is meaningful to me. And I think when we break down the numbers, it's so intimidating to It can be so intimidating to launch any type of campaign of funding, you know, not
just just crowdfunding. It's really important that artists understand that one person at a time, you know, one backroun at a time, you can you can do it, and so I'm We're excited to continue to engage emerging filmmakers and support them on that journey.
Taylor, you're about to hit the festival, search it all. We both know these are very uncertain times for the film business. What are you out there looking for? What green shoots? What? What are you hoping to find as you go around the country and talk to people.
We'll be at south By Southwest next We're presenting a sponsor for their Film and TV Awards, and we're also hosting a dinner with the narrative feature filmmakers across the board. What we're looking for at Tribeca this year, at other you know, festivals and opportunities that we have to meet
with filmmakers. We are looking for people who are ready to go now, and we're also looking to connect with industry partners who also want to support independent filmmaking because now, now is the time, The opportunity is now, and we can't wait for that green light.
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