Inside Dawn Ostroff's Last Days at Conde Nast Entertainment

new job as chief Content officer for Spotify. This wasn't something Ostrof divulged at the time of her interview with Variety co editor in chief Andrew Wallenstein earlier this month, so this conversation does not touch on that next chapter. But we've decided to publish this interview with Ostrof nonetheless because it serves as a good retrospective of her tenure at a company facing some fascinating challenges. Thanks for coming in, Dawn,

Thank you for having me. And we should warn the viewers you've got to touch you laryngitis, but we've pumped you full of drugs and you're gonna make it through. Well. I hope I do. Yeah, my daughter says, my voice sounds sexy, so we'll go with that's our interpretation. That helps in the podcast. What is it like at Conde Nast in terms of trying to get viewers that you

used to try to get on the TV side. Well, I think the way we approached the Conde Nast is saying, how can we be good storytellers on all platforms, which, of course are you know, magazines, print our first business, um, feature films, television, and of course then the digital business. And that is really what we set out to do, is create a studio that makes content across all these

different platforms. When you look at digital in its own right, you can see that there are many different versions of digital depending on what the platform is. And so it's become a priority for us to be able to make the content that is worthy of the viewers eyeballs um, that people will talk about and it will be must see viral videos um. And it's across all of our brands, but it's also on every digital video platform that is out there. The good news is is that the trends

bode well for where for you where you stand. You were still in the TV business at a time where you were starting to see a very real drift of particularly younger viewers to the digital program sorry digital platforms. Where you now program? Are you finding that with these brands that people really know more from the magazine world

that you're able to bring these fleeing younger viewers. Yes, we actually if you if you were to look at our demographics now, the audience we have in digital video is young twelve to BALI forty, The digital text business of our website is a little bit older, and then of course print is even a little bit older than that. So what we're able to do is really expand what the brands mean two different generations, but also make the brands relevant to the gen Z and the millennials, which

is very hard to do these days. And being able to take license with what the brand verticals are has been a key to our success. And then reinventing formats that have worked on linear television but looking at them through a different lens for these digital platforms have been incredibly helpful. Give an example of it. So an example

of that would be UM. For example. If you look at Entertainment UM and you look at UM interview shows, right, and you look at a late night show like let's say Jimmy Kimmel or UM or fallon UM, and you're typically seeing an interview show as a television viewer, as a voire of two people having a conversation and you're watching that conversation. But in the digital space, we always make it much more personal. It's much more um, it's

you're you're much more included in behind the curtain. And so like seventy three questions would be a great example. Not only do we have the celebrity who's being interviewed speaking directly to the camera and our director is asking the questions as more of a friend, and the questions are very sort of you know, um, it could be very fun and not on topic at all for anything that they're particularly promoting. But it also takes place in

the celebrities home. So while the celebrity is walking through their home as if they were just going through you know, uh, you know, meaning a friend and sort of taking them through the house, we the viewer on that ride with them and hearing all of the different, you know, kinds of questions that you may or may not hear on

a late night talk show. But the point is is that the celebrities are used to having um, a different kind of relationship with the with the viewer and the consumer in the digital space, right if it's Twitter or if it's YouTube, I mean, they speak to or Instagram they speak directly to them, and that's the expectation in video, and so the viewer has, you know, that one on one, they feel like they're on the inside, and that makes it it feel like it's a different same same format,

same concept, but really in execution, totally different. And in terms of using magazine brands, I gotta say, it's interesting to me that you know, you're talking about brands that are literally a century old, incredible magazine brands. Do they have the ability though, to be sort of the call of entry for younger viewers who may not have grown up reading g Q and Vogue. It's it's it's to me, it feels like there's a real risk there and trying

to make these older brands newly relevant. But you know, it's funny and because even at Lifetime we face this. You know, you you you create a brand, and the c W also you create a brand, and you have to make sure that the brand moves with the generations that come up as as as as they start to to move forward, because if you don't, you don't stay relevant. And relevancy is so critical to the success and the future of these brands, and so let's take Lamor for example.

You know, Glamor has existed for many many years as you know, a woman's magazine and has stood from many different things. But in the video space, you can take so much more risk and you can take so much more leeway with what that means. And we have a series that's one of our franchises called you Know You Sang My Song, and it literally takes all of these different artists Pink, Demilovado, Katy Perry, and what we do

is we play them cover songs from YouTube videos. Um so it's average people who are singing their songs and we played for them and get them to critique the people who are just you know, the us or the means, you know, trying to emulate them, and then we play it back for that average person watching Pink watch them and it's driven millions of views, I mean ten million views per episode. And you would say, okay, well is

that a Glamour series? Well, it is a Glamour series because it's really about inspiration and aspiration and that's so much of what Glamours alwaystood for. Is it this exact version of what they've always done in the magazine in terms of inspiring people, maybe not, but it really works and it's a new way to look at glamor can be.

So what I'm curious about is you're sort of working the video arm of what was known for most of its time as a publishing business, which has its challenges, and so what is the pressure on you in terms of making the economics work in a way that helps the whole company? Uh, Because I would imagine, and maybe I'm wrong, that it's still the traditional revenue streams for these companies that are sort of carrying them right now, Well,

you'd be surprised at how quickly that's shifted. Really. I mean, this is going to be one of the first years that we really see a significant shift. And if you look at digital and video together and that will be the majority of the revenue for our company on the at side. Um and if you look at our five year plan, you'll see the video becomes a more prominent player. And the opportunities that we have in video are quite

are quite grand. I mean, we have brands that never became cable networks and if you look back, they probably should have been and they probably would have been very successful given the verticals that all these brands play in UM and I think we have an opportunity to almost leapfrog over what was missed, which was cable, and create those kinds of verticals and channels in the digital space where the next generation, who really will be familiar with

our brands through digital video, will really know what a D is, will know what bone app is, will know g Q and Vogue and any of our big brands and what they really stand for because they will have grown up on that programming. And you know, I'll give you a great example. We do a show with a d architectural digest called open House, and open House is you know, celebrities taking you on a tour of their home, and the episodes do very well. But we decided to

do an episode with z Now. Z is a DJ that is incredibly popular world over and z bought an amazing house in the Hollywood Hills. So we did this video and it did fourteen million views in a matter of three days. Okay, and so just within our own company, we were curious, like, who's watching this video? We all went home asked our kids have you seen this video? Every one of the kids, who were teenagers, twenties had seen the video and the follow up question was who

made the video? Do you know whose video it was? And they all knew it was a D because a D was on you know, the watermark was on the screen the whole time, and they all said, a D. So now a D has relevancy to this next generation. They wound up watching the next episode, which was an older episode which was Robert Downey Jr. And they all loved that episode. And then Claudia Schiffer came on, which was an episode we had done before that many of them didn't know who she was, but you know, the

Z episode is what brought them all in. And now all of these people know what a D is because we made it relevant to them. And that's a good example of how you can take something that you know would never necessarily be known to any of this, you know, to to these younger viewers and make it relevant and

important to them. What is it like though, strictly with regards to content for digital platforms monetizing it at a time where the prevailing narrative is the big platforms like Facebook and Google are vacuuming most of the dollars out of this, and it's you guys and maybe other publishing companies or the vices or buzzfees of the world fighting over the scraps right well, it depends, you know, on the in the digital text world, there is much less

of the advertising dollars um available when you look at the digital video side of the business right now, of the advertising revenue spent on digital video will be left over for others um. And that's a projection over the next five years, and so that's a significant amount of money when you start to consider how much advertising dollars are really moving into the digital the digital video space um.

And then when you also take into account that we are a premium producer really with brands that are well known and trusted, which is incredibly important right now. That also scales significantly with the thirty five series that we have in the digital space that are considered to be hits. Each episode does somewhere between two and ten million views, which by any television network would be considered to be

a hit, um, you know, within a week um. And so you can see how a considerable amount of the fifty of that amount of money will will start to really trickle down to the players who are you know, trusted uh premium producers, and I think that we will be right there in that sweet spot and for Conde Nast Entertainment. I mean, you've been at this now for seven years, and I'm curious has its played out as you thought of what are you guys at the place?

Growth wise you thought you'd be. Yeah, it's a little bit less than seven years because I joined the company in like November eleven, so we really get started untill we just brought on a few people because we were a true startup. We had nothing when we started, UM and we didn't launch the digital video business until March of so that's you know, it's been it's been just you know, probably four years. UM. But I do UM.

I think we are shocked at how far we are. UM. I don't think anybody could have predicted that the business would have grown as rapidly, that the business will have would have changed so quickly, that the revolution would have really happened in such a way that you know, we wake up and we see fifty of the eighteen to thirty four year old twelve to thirty four year old demographics disappearing from from television, and the eyeballs are going

to digital video and millions of people are watching these videos within a week. It is just I think it's it's it's eye opening, and I think it took us all by surprise. And of course Conde Nast is not just doing digital video. You've got producing for TV and film on your plate as well. And what's interesting about Conde Nasa is you're sitting on this treasure trove of ideas that have come out of the magazine, stories that have been written, and you're able to adapt that into

film and TV. Um. I'm actually curious just that versus what you're doing in digital What is there any tail wagging the dog here? Is there any one element of the business that leads the way. Yeah, you know, it's really been again fascinating. I don't know if I could have predicted this. The feature business has been pretty much the articles that are either in the archives or that have come out that have incredible stories about really relevant topics. Um.

And so we've been fortunate enough to make five movies now. UM, and I would say that you know, all of those movies, for the most part, I had some connection to an article or to a brand itself. Um. When you look at what we've been able to do on the television side,

particularly with unscripted. It's been a combination of some things that have come from articles directly, some original ideas that did not come from anything that had to do with Condie Nast at all, but it was original ideas, and some ideas are starting to come from the digital space that have been huge successes UM as digital series that have migrated over now to linear television, most expensive As

being an example. It started as a g Q short form series two Chains basically is the Robin Leech of today and it's lifestyles of the rich and famous for lack of a better way to describe it, um but the series and the digital space did over two fifteen million views. Viceland bought it as a long form series. We make it differently obviously for long form, but the same concept UM and we're seeing that happen more and more with some of our other franchises that they're starting

to migrate over to linear UM. So I do think that we wouldn't have necessarily predicted that there would be so much overlap, but there is a considerable amount of overlap, and then they're always just original ideas. The digital ideas do not necessarily come from the magazines. Those are usually ideas that come from people who are experts on any given platform, experts on YouTube, experts on Snapchat, experts on Facebook, experts and syndication um, and so those ideas really do

come from the creators themselves. Different generation of creators, I want to add, not yet, not the type of creators that we would have seen in the linear side of

the business beat, either through film and television. This is a new generation of creators who really look at things very differently, and they've been able to make anything they want and put it out for the world to see and iterate their creative vision in a very different way than the way we've been able to to immerse and and and and and nurture our creators on the traditional side.

What's I've been like for you because your career you spend most of the time shepherding these traditional long form things, and that you're saying, you're programming to a platform where the old rules just don't apply, So how are you learning the new rules? It has been an m b A for me. I mean it, and it's so humbling because honestly, I came into this opportunity thinking I can do this because if you have success on traditional and you you know, gossip Girl at one point was the

biggest show in the country. Right every young person talked about it, you know, read everything that they could get their hands on about about our cast. Um. But it really was eye opening to understand that the way in which we make the content for the digital space has nothing to do with the way we would create television ideas. Um.

You know, it's it. There's there's a understanding of what the viewer expectation is when they're watching content on any one of those platforms, and you have to really adhere to be either a format that is the expectation, or a storytelling style or a way in which you shoot something that really does help determ and if something is going to be a success or not and qualities quality, So it has to be good and has to be

worthy of people's time. But it really is very very specific about how the storyteller and how the director really does bring that story to life on those platforms. But I also want to get back to this question of what's what's what's driving the train here at Condonas Entertainment. Is it selling long form or is it new form? And I'm curious from a revenue perspective and just from an energy and what you're spending your time on day to day. Well, I can tell you my time has

spent you know, across the board. The digital business for us is a real business. It is profitable, it's been profitable for a few years, and it is really a big part of the future of the company. There was no doubt for our company. The digital video business is really a sound business model that has huge amount of upside for us. We did twelve billion views last year. Our business model has always been about monetization, so we have really made the content where we know we can monetize,

and so we've been very very clear. You know, a lot of our competitors or colleagues started their businesses with investors who really felt that it was all about scale and the monetization will come. We did not have the

luxury of that. We were funded by our parent company and our mandate was to be able to scale and be profitable at the same time, and so we really had to look at our business model very differently, and as a result, we've been able to probably get to a place where you know, the business as as a standalone business or as a as a significant part of our existing business is a real proposition for our company,

and that was our goal when we started. How do we make this a real business for the future, and how do we keep the brands relevant for the next generations to come? And I feel like we've been able to achieve both of those things. So when you ask if we would have thought that we would be here six years in, you know, the truth is, I don't know if we ever could have predicted that what we thought would happen would actually happen, and it actually happened

faster than we ever could have imagined. But our goals of being able to really be profitable and be a significant part of the business and help keep these brands alive definitely did come to pass in the past, you know, in over the six years. Well, on the other end of the spectrum, you know, the movie business. You've got this Robert Redford movie coming out this fall, Old Man and the Gun. I gotta say, I'm curious, and I

know it's not your first movie at Conde Nast. Why even be in the theatrical business when it feels like if you're not making like a two hundred million dollar movie you get lost. Yes, and again that's something that just happened over the past few years. Right. So when we started this business, Argo UM had won the Academy Award like the year before. Argo came from one of our magazines, from Wired, And so that's the example of

why we started the business. Because although the article was in our magazine and the company you know, obviously paid for the research, the legal you know, all the different elements that go into these magazines and spent months on the investigation, you know, they had no participation creatively or financially in the movie. So that's why we started the business UM and the business in the industry has changed significantly.

That being said, there's always going to be an audience for adult movies that are great about great stories, great characters, that are really important topics. And I think that there's nobody who does those types of stories better than our company. And so those are the types of movies that we

have been making. That being said, you know, it's it's surprising because we do have you know, movies at Netflix, we hopefully will sell movies to Amazon UM and the movies that we are also making for theatricals are a broader range than what you would just think of UM as counting as properties. We have some comedies with some horror films, so UM a genre film sci fi. So we really do have movies that are across a wider spectrum and I do believe that that is going to

be a significant part of our business. The industry has opened up because you now have these different platforms that you can sell other types of movies too, So hopefully it will make our business even more robust because there are more choices. On the television side, it's just insatiable. I mean, be it either on the scripted side or

the unscripted side, there's so much opportunity. We've gone into a first look with Anonymous and paramount UM, and I think that our articles and our type of storytelling on the scripted side is incredibly well suited for what they've been able to do in the industry and they feel the same of us UM. And then the non scripted side, we've had amazing success. We have eight series that are either on the air in production. UM Last Chance You

has been nominated for numerous awards. Fastest Cars, which is on Netflix now um is a big it for them, and we have a series that we're shooting around the world. Um. So it's a business that sixty seven billion dollars is going to be spent this year alone on long form production. So you can't look at the business and say there's not a big piece of the pie um for everybody, because sixty seven billion dollars is a lot of money, um in production dollars. So we hope to be in

there getting um, you know, a significant chunk. I think the i P that we have really is an entree to a lot of opportunity for us. So it sounds like, whether it's film or TV, you're gonna be doing a lot of selling uh to a lot of the streaming services, which is obviously that opportunity is only going to grow, I'm but it also sounds like you're not necessarily giving up on theatrical that even if you're not making two million dollar movies, you've got some things up your sleeve

that you think could still work. Yes, And I think we you know, we make different things for different reasons, right Um. Obviously having a big box office hit is certainly on our roadmap, you know, and does that look like a big ten pole movie could be, could be. You know, we have The Street and Smith Library, which is Doc Savage in the Shadow, So we do have

some I P that is in the superhero world. But the reality is that you know, comedies, you know, um genre films are also you know, breaking out and can be very profitable. And so really our goal is to make sure that we are at least diverse enough in the types of movies that we make to be able to be everywhere that the audience wants to be. And if the storytelling is good enough and if the film is good enough, you know, it's it's what it's always been,

you know, people will go seek great entertainment. Moving back to the digital side, Uh, you just announced that your new fronts that you're gonna You're already out there on the platforms like YouTube and Facebook and whatnot with brands like Vogue and g Cube, but now you're gonna take some of those Conde Nast brands and put them on O T T platforms where in connected TV will be able to watch all sorts of say content from Wired.

Maybe charge for that. Talk about that, because to me that feels like a real stretch from how we've come to understand these brands. So what we've built is an incredible library for most of our brands, and the library of content you know, has driven millions and millions of views on the platforms as you as you said, um, but it is the perfect base for these O T

T channels. And then on top of the library that we already have, will start to make original content for the O T T channels as we start to understand what the viewers expectations are watching the content, probably from their living room on an O T T channel. Um. And then from there the programming will get more sophisticated and get more expensive. I'm sure, but the idea is that we now have verticals that are relevant to a

younger demographic. They probably will be UM on on on a tile with a lot of other tiles, and you know, how do you select what you're going to watch? They will at least know what Wired programming is about. They will know what Bone app content is about or g Q because they will have watched those channels. We have millions and millions of subscribers on our YouTube channel, so

we know we already have a built an audience. So it's just taking that audience and now starting to expand and filter what we're what we're programming for an O T T platform. But we've done a lot of the groundwork in terms of building the content library, building the subscribers, building the viewer base, and now how do we just elevate it and bring it onto another platform. But man, that discovery challenge that scares me a little bit because

you know, use the word tiles. Viewers have a lot of tiles to sort through, and with brands that they may be more used to seeing and connected TV than they do brands. But we do have a huge leg up and I'll tell you the two reasons. One is because at least their brands, their brands that are well known. UM, We've got a lot of people who are competing on UM for the shelf space on O T T that

for the brands are not well known. These are at least brand names that people will recognize, so there's going to be at least the likelihood that they will check it out. And then we have built these audiences twelve billion views last year, a loan of people who know what these brands are about in digital video, and so I have to believe that with the base of all of those viewers and then all the subscribers that we have on these different platforms, we'll be able to migrate

some of them. Now, well, we have to build those up and and start from scratch again. Of course we will, but at least we have some foundation there that's not really making a start from ground zero. We may be starting from like the second level, um, and then we just have to be able to delight and inspire and entertain the viewer to come back over and over again. And that's really the challenge. Well, it's gonna be an interesting challenge to see you pursue in the coming year.

It sounds like you've got a lot on your plate and wish you luck with that. Thank you so much, and he's great to be here. Thanks thanks for listening. Be sure to tune in next week for another episode of Strictly Business. M