How MasterClass Founder David Rogier Brought Star Power to Online Learning

one can take from you, she taught him. She also told him to learn from the best, and he took that to heart as he launched what became Masterclass in the lockdown conditions of the pandemic, as you might expect, was a big accelerant for master Class. In our conversation, David talks about the hurdles of getting the service up and running, the cold holes and the nose that came

in before a few keep people said yes. He also offers insight into the entrepreneur's burden, what he describes as the confidence you need to pursue your vision when everybody else thinks it's a bad or an impossible idea. It's all coming up. On today's episode of Strictly Business, Welcome back, to strictly business. David Rogier, CEO and founder of Master Class, thank you for joining us today. It is a pleasure

to be here. Thanks for having me. Tell us now, as you look back on, you know, going on six years of course and counting of Master Class, can you talk us through. I mean, start with the spark of inspiration. What was it that made you, you know, martial divorces and get what you needed together to to to put your first you know, to plant your flag first with Master Lass. I wanted to start something and um and uh, and I had some time and fun and fun and funding to actually do it, and so um how it

started actually working in adventure. I was actually working as an investor, and um, I was in investing in companies and I actually missed building things. So I went to my boss at the time and I told him, thanks, thanks so much, but actually I want to go build. I'm going I am going to quit. I think there's you know, a little a little bit of shock on his face. Um. And then he asked me what I'm

going to build and I said, I don't know. He goes, well, why don't you think of some ideas and I will fund you and I was like, man, I don't have an idea or team. He's like, that's okay, And he wrote me a check to go think of ideas. And I was shocked. I called my mom. I mean, I was shocked. You must have been a very good employee. Yeah. Um, his job was to invest right company, So you know,

there was trying. I mean, it was such a kind gesture and one that would only I think having because I worked for him and knew him for a while. But um, it was also it was terrifying. Um, it's at a once in a lifetime opportunity that I don't want to mess up, and you know, and it was such a gift. But all of a sudden, you go from having a structure job having no structure, and and you know that was I didn't know what I was

gonna think of. But I felt pressure, you know, a from him to come up with a great idea, felt pressure from my from my from myself. Right, Um, this is the once lifetime thing. I don't want to mess

that up. And you know, everybody asked you what you are doing, and you're like, you know, I'm trying to think of a great idea, and you know, I'm a little stressed about it, and nobody gives you any empathy or anything right because because it seems like it is an amazing you know, chance opportunity, um or if I may. I mean, you really were a blank slate at this point. You didn't you didn't have an idea of an area or a sector of interest. You were really kind of

wide open. I mean I had lots of ideas and thoughts um and different frame, different ways to think about it, things like, Okay, what is something I really care about? What's like I need in life? What are other people's needs in life? What are trends in the market. I had a couple of ideas, but nothing that was, you know, I was sure about and um, So I asked people for I wanted their I wanted their wisdom and advice.

And somebody gave me a great constraint. She said, choose something that even if it fails, you are going to be proud of it. That was a brilliant constraint. And I think sometimes really good advice and sometimes having a bit of some rules or a box allows you to be more create more, you know, allows your your you feel more free because you're like, Okay, the thing has to be a half an hour show or a two

hour movie, or I have a budget. This was like, if I did that constraint, then you're saying, okay, what's something that even it fails, I'd be proud of. And Um. I immediately thought of my grandmother. So I was in part raised by her. Um and UM. I remember in um second grade, I went to her house after school and day. Um I would usually stay with her after school and and I was complaining to her about all the math homework I had, which obviously I didn't have

a lot because I'm in second grade. And my grandma tells me this story that when she was sixteen years old, she was living at a time in crack out Poland her and her mom went on a family vacation. While they're on vacation, didn't the Nazis invaded Um. They took everything, they killed her father, Her and her mom fleet to New York City. Only job her and her mom can get is in a factory floor. Um, and they're working side. They are working side side, eyes side in the factory

and my grandmother's side. She wants to become a doctor, finds every medical school and the state of New York applies to all of them by hand. I think it's over twenty five schools. She gets a note from every single one, working exactly. She keeps working. The factory applies again. The next year, gets a note from every single one. She starts calling the deans of admissions and asking why am I not getting in? They all hang up on her, except for this one guy who says, I'll be honest,

you have three strikes against you. You're a woman, an immigrant, and you're a foreigner. Sorry, you are a woman, a immigrant, and you're Jewish and hangs up the phone. My grandma keeps working. Factory applies again. The next year, all twenty five gets into one school and becomes a pediatrician. And I remember I was staring at her because I'm in second grade. I was just whining about math homework and this was a heavy story to get in a response.

And my grandma looks at me and she's like, David, the point I'm trying to make you is education only thing that someone can't take away from you. And I realized, I got this one chance. I want to build and I'll be proud of it. The fails, I want to build someng that other people can't take away from others. I want to try to make it possible for anybody in the world to learn from the best. Wow, that is some determination in your gens there that you can tell.

I mean, she is my hero. What's her name? Her name is Yanka. She passed away when I when I was in college. That you know, was the spark of the idea I did, you know, UM, I did more testing.

I posted some ads on Craigslist. UM offered to pay people just to hear about their own educational path, mock some things up, thought about why I don't take online classes, And then you know, the idea came to try to get the best in the world to actually teach UM and we launched it about you know in two thousand. In two thousand, fifaunched it and you got you know, you got Dustin Hoffman, you You've got you know, big names right off the start. How did you do that?

How did you How did you convince people to to take a chance on something that was you know, very new and and even in a new format that we're now very familiar with, but weren't just just five short years ago. It was really hard. I mean the third I mean, everybody said it's a bad idea, it's not gonna work. Those same people now say, I always told you it was gonna be a great idea. Um it was. You know, it was a lot of cold calling, cold emailing,

talking to anybody who knows anybody. Um, you know, the first three years were Dustin Hoffman, Surreen uh Serena Williams and James pat and James Patterson. After we had maybe five to tend, the flywheel started spinning, so it got easier and easier. I mean we now say no to nine attent people. But you know, early on it was written, it was so hard, it was so hard. H And how did you, um, how did they sort of design?

There's a there's a design to the classes and a and a there's a there's a sense that kind of goes across them. Of course they're different people in different subjects, but there's a kind of a rhythm and a pacing. Did that come by trial and error or did you have a did you at some point have a vision for what a master class would look like? I would love to say that we came into the first shoot with a you know, a solid vision that you know, stayed true to out. It was definitely a work in progress.

I mean we did test classes with my parents, UM, so we filmed them. Our early classes were directed by j Roach, who directed Meet the Parents. Um, and he's fantastic director. Bill guten Tag, who's a two time Academy Award winn Doc filmmaker, directed early ones. Um. I mean we got We had lots of help from lots of people, but it was a lot of you know what you know. Uh. We kept thinking, how do you bring the joy back

to learning? If you talk to most people if they like school, the answers no. If you ask most people if they love to learn, the answers of course. And so there's a gap there. And so start thinking what how do you bring it back? And you know, for us, the answer was why, you know, aspirationally, why can't it be as enthralling as a movie? Um? Yet you know as educational is your favorite class in school, and so

trying to merge those two worlds, um. And so from a pacing standpoint, how tight do you make it versus how much you let it air out? Um? How do you create a sense of intimacy? How long should it be you know, making sure it doesn't feel scripted, because that, you know, it has to feel you wanted to feel like you are sitting on a couch or a or a bass couldball Corps or a film set with these people and they're just doing a brain dump to you

of all the things that they wish somebody had taught them. Um, when did you get the sense that the business Like, when did you get the sense the business was really having traction kind of in in in pop culture or at least among your target consumers. Yeah. I mean the first day we launched, I went home crying, So I thought it wasn't gonna work because our sales weren't as goes. I thought. On the second day, I knew it was

going to be a big business. Okay, Yeah, I mean I remember I went home the first I cried, actually, and I'm not a crier, but I was like, what am I gonna do? How am I gonna go to all these people that you know, really bet on me and us that this is gonna work? And then the second day on in the office and one of our marketing at team members is there and hit a big smile on his face, and I went to him I was like, what's going on. He's like, this is gonna

be a huge business. I was like, wait why, And he's like, look, if you look at the traction that we are getting, we can really blow this out. And you know, it just kept growing and growing. Um I think so you know along the way, there's all different points where you know, it's a step level function. I mean, getting the first three people to teach that was huge. You know, Uh, launching Aaron Sorking class was another step function in the Christian Aguilara class. I mean every year

those things. Last year, Um, we we were spoofed on on SNL. That was you know, I mean that that was That's a real tribute. You've made it. You've hit the pop culture consciousness. Yeah, it's very hard whenever you see that because you're like, they're making fun of us. But it's but it's funny and you know, and so you know, and you probably saw a commensurate you know, you probably just saw a lot of traction after that, people going, you know, what is that thing? Yeah? Exactly, exactly, yeah, Um,

that's uh. And what did you do initially to get the word out? Wasn't like at all? Digital advertising did you spend any money on old fashioned TV or or outdoor or anything. In the beginning, it was all digital. We now do print in an outdoor and television, But in the beginning, I mean, you know, one of the best things about the Internet is you know, you can use these different platforms and sites to target people you

think are going to be interested. Right. You know, if you're if you're like Photoggerfy and or Annie Leebwitz fan, you know, probably you're gonna be interested in taking her class. If you're a Walt Disney fan and an entrepreneurship the Bob Eiger class, you're probably gonna want to take it. Um. So, you know, early on it was very helpful to aim at that niches. But now you know, we have our hundred classes across multiple fields, and so doing that broad

based advertising works incredibly well for us now. M So you must have a team. You must have like a real audience development team that kind of tracks how you how you know kind of who to go, what the avenues are to reach the target demos for various classes. Do you still kind of employ that very targeted strategy? Oh yeah, I mean we do lots of work. I mean in picking an instructor who's you know, who, who are they going to appeal to? Who's who? The thing

they're teaching is that field? Who? Who? What does that feel that's gonna appeal to folks? Um? You know what things people want to learn from that person after we make the class, you know what what parts do people like and not like? What far as they find impactful and the exact same thing on the mark on the

marketing side too. Um. You know, but what I think what's been really awesome I need to see is you know, over the last couple of years, as people have gotten more familiar with our brand, they will trust us with instructors that they maybe don't know but are equally deserving and masterful. So you know, for example, last year, we launch a class with Ron Finley. Ron Finley is a self distract self described gangster gardner um and he's rebuilt

parts of Los Angeles through planting and gardening. And it's an at is a gardener, an amazing one, but also in an activist. And you know, we launched his class and people didn't hear of Ron Finley before this, right, they heard of a Martin's Corsese or a Christian Aguilera, but they're like, hey, you know, if Ron Finley is

on the same site, he's probably pretty interesting. And he took his class and it did fantastically well because it's an amazing class, right, And so part of our responsibuilding role is to find people you don't know, but once you do, you will love them and love the last We'll pause here for a moment and be right back with more from Masterclass CEO David Roggier. And we're back with more from Masterclass CEO David Roggier. At what point along the way did you find that you needed to

raise more capital for the business? A lot of points long the way? Um? You know, Um, film production is expensive, ask any Hollywood ceo. Yeah, so a bunch of times long the way. And also you know, I wanna grow as fast as we can and reaches many focus as much as possible, and I and UM, and I wanna I want us to define the space. And so really, you know, we've raised you know, quite I think you know, um up to this, you know, point over two million? Um?

And yeah, did you find when you went out didn't did investors get it? Like since it was something they could see, did they get it or was it they? At first? It was at first it was very hard, very very very re few investors. At first I understood it. Now you know, most do, But in the beginning it was. It was very hard. And I think that's a part

of entrepreneurship I didn't understand. To be honest, I think so much of our society and culture trains us to seek praise um in the form of grades of a comp you know, of a promotion and a job, you know, things like that, and and starting a company or joint or you know, a brand new project or joint to

join one that is not the ground. Yet you have to reject those societal norms because you're by nature you're choosing to do an idea that most people think is impossible, because if they thought it was possible, they would be doing it right. But I mean, you know, anybody who started a project or wrote a piece that other people thought was gonna be dumb. I mean you're used to hearing that, and only after the idea works do people,

you know, get really jump off mo with you. So you're gus, um, you know, I still do not hear that, but like, but you know, but but I you know, I think you have to gain the self confidence and faith that your ideas, even other people might not think they're good, you still feel they're good. And that is a terrifying thought. But once it works, it builds a self compidence that is addicting. Have you hit the break even point? That's not something that we share or disclosed.

But but what I can't tell you, I mean, um, the growth and traction that we have seen not just in the past year, but the year before that, I mean was way past our forecasts and estimates. I mean, you know, before before covid UM we were growing. We were growing way above what even we had forecasts and plant in covid we didn't know what was gonna happen. There were weeks that we were ten x year over year UM. But to me, what's happened last year is an ex It's it's acted as an accelerat of trends

we believed were already true. Did you learn anything? I was just about to ask you kind of what you're learnings from the pandemic? Where did you see any like you know, as the world went into kind of shock in March in April, did you see a spike or did you see a decreases people fit like, I'm curious if you saw patterns over the sort of the twelve months from like March to March. We did, but they're

not easy to decipher, so we definitely saw spikes. The hard part of the deciphering is not every country or every state was going was going through the same thing at the same time, so you have to really partition it out based on part of the world. So it's very hard, you know, just to understand all those trends Um. But one of the trends we saw which was interesting is the what classes and what parts of classes people

watched a lot. So one lesson that really spiked UM was we have a new negotiation class with Chris boss Um, who's a former lead FBI hostage negotiator, and he has a chapter called Tactical Empathy, which is like how to deploy empathy in a way to get what you want. And it's Mike, We're like, why is that spiky? And you talk to people are Oh, I'm negotiating with my husband or with my wife or my kids. Who's gonna get to work in the office or who's it going

on the WiFi now? Right? And so we saw that spike Ron Finley on the gardening side, we saw that spike a lot. We launched a class on in tier on tier on, tier on interior design that Spike, and also a lot of the business classes, so the Bob Iger, the Sarah Blakely's Uh Animal Tour, because people trying to figure, I think, how to lead in this new era. And

that's a book that hasn't been written yet. M Absolutely, did you find your given the conditions that you knew a lot of you know, the US was in, did you find yourself adding classes to think, you know, looking to develop classes that might be appealed to people that are, you know, mostly stuck at home. Yes, and we were

lucky that we had already had some of those planned. Um. But we also saw you know, um, we had a chess class with we had we actually had we do have a chess class with um Gary casper Off and these Gambit spiked. We saw that class spiked. Um, we have classes from Pen and Pen Pen and Teller on magic. And we saw that spike with parents want to do it with their kids. Um, I'm thinking of other ones we saw spike. We have a step Steph curry on on basketball, people doing that with their kids. And then

also a lot of the acting and filmmaking classes. Um, I think people having time to dive into things they really cared about, you know, the Samuel l Ja accs in Spiked Lee. I mean those classes have done fantastic too, in generally speaking, not just in pandemic times but over the over the years so far. Are there certain topics that are just always popular for you certain kind of

broad themes of like cooking, more business or anything like? Yeah, I mean cooking appeals to lots of people all the time. So everybody from you know, Thomas Keller, chef Chef Ramsey, I mean those you know, those class always end well. But I mean it's really what we found is interesting is people go broad. I mean people are multi height, so you might start with the Steph Carey basketball class,

but then loves to take the like Steve Martin class. Um. And so people actually go broad in their interests, which is really neat. I made the assumption when we started talking that this is largely a US business, but I know you do reach overseas. Can you characterize you know, kind of what roughly like what percentage of businesses in the US person's overseas. Yeah, about a third of our businesses outside the United States. That was shocking to us

because our classes right now are only in English. UM. In this year we will launch in other languages and other parts of the world. But it's been amazing to see that. You know, this desire to learn from the best is not an American trade, right, I mean, this is a global trade in you know, humanity. UM. And so yeah, we're very excited to launch international and will you launch in in will you launch versions in local languages? Yea. You know everybody is always saying they're looking for a

scalable business. This is like, as you say, like you know, education and learning at this level with these people, as you know, it seemed to be about as about as scalable as a gift. I think so too. But you know, early on the beginning, you know, there were questions about that. Um. You know, how much appeal is there for this? You know, do people really want to learn? Are they're gonna want to learn online? And I think you know, this goes

back to you when I were discussing. You know, early on in a project, you have to you are going to be doing things other people think are impossible or dumb or bad ideas, and that's okay, that's okay. Um. You know, right now in the media, in the media landscape, there's a lot of M and A activity, there's a lot of activity in the equities markets to talk about

you know, prop the market for I pos and spacts. Um. I've heard people talk about Masterclass potentially being a nice fit with you know, media media companies that have you know, that have big television assets, that have those kind of platforms. Is there any is there a scenario that you are considering in which Masterclass you know, has a transformation as a business. Would you consider a merger with a potential

partner if that, if the opportunity was right. It's not why I think about a lot, to be honest, because I think it's it's for me. It's about the impact and reach. So I want to get you know, I want to be in every household in the world, and I want, you know, someday somebody, I want somebody to be able to take a class we've never had access to. These people get inspired, become a master and come back to actually teach. And you know, to me, it's about

reaching impact. So you know there are ways to work with other people to maximize the reach, of course, but it's it's well, we will absolutely stay too. David, tell me a little bit about your background. How did you find yourself at a venture capital company in the position to take to take that first step toward building this company. I was a curious kid from day one. Um, but I also stuttered. I still do, but as much for

as his kid, and lots of people who stutter. Your first instinct and mine is like you want to hold back or you don't want to expose it. You want people to know, you know that you've stuttered. And my parents would not allow that. I mean my parents when they had friends over to eat dinner, their expectation was that I sit with them and their friends, even as a young kid, and I engage in discussion with them, and my parents would not let me use that as

an excuse for anything. And that was really hard. It was to use the school, but it also built that self confidence a little bit, that hey, I have interesting things to say. No other people might not think that, but you know, but and that, I think empowered me to ask questions more and to kind of chase that down. So I think, you know, combining that with want to do some good in the world kind of fueled me to to to want to find things and to do things, and to learn and to and and and I think

you know, from a very early age. That's hard to say what left Edi a mastercask with. Those are some of the bread some of the bread drums. M absolutely absolutely, I hear you. Um. Let me ask you as we wrap up here, Um, is there a person as do you have a wish list of somebody that that you'd love to have a class that you haven't quite been able to get to yet? Oh? Sure, um um. And if anybody listens to this and you know you were one of these people or no one of them, please

I'm trying to tee it up here. I mean, look, I would love a class from Spielberg. I would love a class from Donald lover her. Um. I would love a class from Michelle and Barack Obama elon musk we love. I mean, there's lots of that we love. Thanks for listening. Be sure to leave us a review at Apple Podcasts. We love to hear from listeners, and be sure to tune in next week for another episode. Of strictly business, keep him