How ABC Reconfigured 'American Idol' Amid the Pandemic Lockdown

Angeles and me from my place in Sunnyside, Queens. In a lively conversation, Rob offers insights into how ABC found the way to salvage American idols live shows. He also talks about the business of game shows and why he wants to get a new season of The Bachelor in production. A s a p. Rob Mills, Senior vice president of Alternative Series, Specials and Late Night for ABC Entertainment, Thank you so much for joining us today through the magic

of zoom technology flying through the airwaves. Yes, this is amazing. It's as if we were doing this in person. Cyn't

thea thrilled to be here. I'm disappointed because this in fact was set up initially to be done in person, but that was not meant to be, so we are being resilient and and finding new ways to communicate, which is basically the job of the entire media and entertainment complex right now, tell us give us a little color about how you and your team have been have been continuing to program and develop and you know, make the plans that you need to keep the robust alternative series

flowing to the ABC Television Network. Well, I mean, fortunately have to say, I don't think anyone has ever been busier. Uh, it's sort of been a kind of two pronged approach. One is, there's a lot of stuff we already have that's in various stages of pre pre pre production, production, and post production, so you're getting everything kind of righty

and keeping those trains running. And then, as we've seen a lot of certainly on the special side, there's a lot of these specials that are being put together kind of quickly and nimbly that we're working on. We're doing the the Together at Home thing with the w h O that's gonna air on the eight Team. We're working on doing something kind of with the Disney the Disney Songbook. We're going to special there with celebrities that we're really excited about. So uh, there's there's still a lot of

stuff going on. Also, you know American Idol, which has it's just getting to its live component, keeping that going and how we're going to do that, getting Jimmy Kimmel back on the air. So we've actually been coping by just keeping incredibly busy. And I'm so proud of my team. Everyone's been just fantastic and really kind of working their butt off. And has it really been like you know, everybody you know, mostly if not exclusively at home, everybody

at home. Yeah, I have to say, it's amazing. I didn't even know what zoom was, how to work it's what it meant, And now I feel like I don't even remember when we did when we worked without it? You um have you have you guys had the like you know, everybody's had the story of like the really important meeting where the glitches just you know became like became part of became part of an agenda item, Like

how we're working through those? Oh, yeah, we've dealt with that, but we we've powered through and found a way and and things are still still going up. How are you how do you work with producers who also are you must there must be a certain level of producer that has to be in a building somewhere with cameras and a and a control board. Or is it literally everybody's contributing their part from home. No, it really is everybody

from home. I mean I think that as we keep doing these things with each specific show, like with Jimmy Kimmel that was the first one, and that was really figuring out, Okay, how can everybody do this remotely? And somebody going to Jimmy's house setting it up as safely as possible, giving giving them the stuff, the sanitized cameras and everything, and doing it there. And then somebody else remotely is there in post produssion editing the show, getting

it ready. And that's how all these that's how idols gonna work. They're all. It is amazing now how equipped certainly from a technology standpoint, Um, we are sort of able to to do these jobs even with everything that's going on. It. I mean, it's just people saying, but it is. It is utterly amazing. Um, are there any are you finding any you know, benefits at all in this work process? Is are you able to be more thorough in some ways or any any unexpected benefits to

this process. I think certainly it's led the way to innovation and certainly things differently and things you just wouldn't look at and having to look at it in it through a different lens. I mean, like I said, I'm fascinated to see how American Idol looks and feels when people are doing these these performances remotely and what is it like. And this is a very different way of finding a winner on that show than we normally would. So I think that it certainly is interesting and it

makes you curious how it's going to be. I mean, also, just right before this started, and I know we'll talk about it more with Billionaire, that was sort of the first one we got that in under the wire and we took the audience out, and doing it without the audience made it different. And you know, in some ways, look, you you you need that audience. The host feeds off it.

But it also was interesting to watch it and how you had to kind of innovate and really letting the crew kind of getting their reactions on audio and having Jimmy play more off of the contestant and the friend that they had brought to help them out. So I think that it's led to some really sort of interesting creative things that wouldn't have happened before that. And I think, no matter what, when this thing is all over, you

have to be vigilant about learning. You know, what did we learn and how can we use those things in our everyday production once we get back to full speed. I mean, I think that a lot. You know, it's some of this the most sort of low tech, fuzzy shaky video has been some of the most compelling television

that that we've all seen. I think that's that's exactly right, and it's just yeah, it's it's amazing, and it is a testament to you know, ow our world is really from that standpoints able to not only survive but thrive.

Let's talk more specifically about Idle, which you you know, this is such your bit, such a big set piece for you for so much a prime time for the second half of the year here, so you had pretty much kind of just gotten off the ground and then like you know, not not a weekend, all of a sudden that you know, the sort of the growing awareness of of what this was gonna mean. Talk about how can you talk specifically about how you transition that from being up on its feet with a crew of I'm

guessing hundreds to how you're doing it now. Yeah, I mean it was. It's so funny because everything really was trending in idolist direction. We we started, we were pacing ahead of last year. I think that the judges now three seasons in, are sort of better than ever. Their chemistry and and they're judging, They've really really gotten it. I think there arguably some of the best we've seen in those chairs. The talent was great. It really felt

like this was this was a great season. Katie had announced she's pregnant, so that was really exciting every week with a bundle of joy on the way. Yeah, it was. It was all really great. We were so excited and then all of this happened and like everything and which I think is still the case, there's so much uncertainty. It was sort of like, Okay, we're gonna stop down for two weeks. It's not really going to affect us,

but you know, we'll move. The goal line sort of kept moving, and then finally, I think a couple of weeks we had a couple of weeks ago we had to really say okay, we need to think about what is this show. First it was Okay, it's going to be on a sound stage within an audience, and then it was now, this thing might go longer than we're expecting, so how do we make this show? I mean, there was all sorts of things we told about do we just stop down and start back up again when this

is over? But who knows how long that's going to be, and you want to keep keep it going. The audience is invested in these people now, and you don't want to have to then say, yeah, I remember six months ago these people that you really really liked, Well, they're back and they're gonna compete for American Idol. So I think that that was when we said, okay, how do we do the best version of the show at home?

And to the producers credit, and they're really sort of the first ones out you know that that have to do this. We're going to be the first one doing this type of show. Uh, And they have just worked night and day to do something that's going to, you know, feel both relevant to our times but also hopefully at the end of the day, do the the main goal, which is entertained and get you invested and make you want to vote for somebody and and coron an American Idol.

How um do you feel at all at the network. I'm I'm kind of guessing the sense of, like, you know, people are people need that normalcy. People want, you know, the idea that everything being shut down just adds to our dystopian feeling. And it's kind of this is your job. The show must go on. That's right, that's that's act. And that's the exact phrase we used, was the show must go on, keep it going people. Really, you're right, people want to feel that that the world is not

shut down. And I know that in the grand scheme of things, this is you know, it's a singing competition, but we need to know that these things aren't. That life is not happening here. You know, we need to be present and and see everything that is going on and do everything we can to stay safe. But we

also we need this more than ever. Especially we've seen how music too, especially has been really kind of you know, a cure all for for a lot of these things to avoid, keep your sanity and just lift your spirits. So hopefully we're going to do both those things, right, Can I ask you about and let me ask you

about the business implications for that. I mean, I would imagine, and this is you know, with all sensitivity to the situation, I would imagine that that there is some savings, some cost savings in not having the extensive crew and all the production elements and the hair and the makeup and the costuming that you would otherwise have. You know, it's interesting. I guess we'll look and see. I'm not sure how that's all going to net out at the end. We'll

look at everything and see. But but yeah, I have no idea if this is going to be cost savings because you're right, it's a little bom low tech, or is it going to cost more? Is it all going to come out in the wash? I mean, I know that the said is loaded on CBS. I mean, we could go if if things, if this thing all of a sudden was gone tomorrow, we could go right into CBS and go and do big live shows. But we've got the stage ready to go, so I'm not sure where the dollars and cents of it all is gonna

pan out. Now that that'll be interesting And of course, in some cases, obviously through no fault to their own there are crew members that are still on the payroll even if they're not able to fly their trade. So yeah,

that's right absolutely. How in the it's sort of in the bigger picture you mentioned some of it with the with the question for you is how is Idle change for you for ABC as a business now that you've had it a couple of years and you can you know, it's it's it's so clearly there's so much you know, integration with other parts of Disney. Now, can you talk about how it's changed as a business from year one now that you're in year three? Yeah, I think that.

You know, year one was a year unlike anything I'd ever experienced professionally, because it was literally every corner of the Walt Disney Company sort of got behind it. They knew how great this could be. It could enhance everything. We've shot episodes at the Alani, We've had Disney Nights, so it's really been one of those things that's just been a great sort of brand enhancement. And I think now the big question was is there still room for idol? We're people sick of it, and I think we saw

that there is. You know, it's not what it was fifteen years ago. But I don't know that anything is could be. But what we have seen is that there is this is an audience that has incredibly loyal following and a four quadrant following that, this is a show that people watch together. The fact that we had this room on Sunday night to which just feels like that was always the family night. This show just sort of

fits like a glove on our Sunday night schedule. And we look at what we had before and what we have now with IDOL, and it's just great. So we just consider ourselves really lucky to have it, and it's one of those things that's just helped strengthen everything that the network things around it. I think it's paired really well with the rookie this year UM, so it's good.

And everyone's credited here too. They really, from a marketing standpoint scheduling everything, they have not taken their foot off the gas. I mean, they still treat it like an important asset UM and I think that's been really helpful. And you're taking UM, as you mentioned earlier, you are taking another you know, very high watted brand name for ABC who wants to be a millionaire and bringing it

back with with Jimmy Kimmel. Jimmy, you've got Jimmy Kimmel. Uh. His productivity has definitely stepped up under your tenure heading the department between Millionaire and the Live from his Studio, Live with the Studio audience, Uh specials. I butchered that name, but yeah, I mean I've always I started in light when I started ABC started late night, So I go back with Jimmy almost to the beginning of the show,

and it's been really lucky. I mean, and before all that, I remember I used to listen to as Jimmy the sports guy at KA Rock and watched all this Comedy Central stuff. So I feel like I really go back with Jimmy, and um, it has been great to sort of watch him become. I mean, I always think he's

been sort of the face of the net work. But now to your point from a produce oreal standpoint, from now he's hosting in prime time, Uh, watching a late night show really become I think, you know, for my money, he's the best monologue, the best interviewers. So it's been sort of great to do this. But this has been really exciting. I mean, Millionaire, Michael Davies, who produced the original, who also goes way back with Jimmy. He's a predecessor

of yours. In Your Job as Alternative really sort of started started the Department Um and cast one Jimmy Kimmel as the what question reader in wind Benstein's Money. That's exactly right. So it's all sort of come full circle. But it's exciting. I mean, Michael came in and pitched

it and he said, it drives me crazy. That sort of the beginning of this reality boom was Millionaire, and I think we all remember in this thing became this just a phenomenon, and then you had Survivor, and then you had Idol and The Bachelor and Dancing with Stars and Big Brother, Big Brother, and every one of those shows that we're telling you about are still on the air.

It's a Millionaire and it drives them crazy. And he said, you know the goal of this show was always to be a an event, a limited event that comes back every now and then, and that's sort of how we started. And then it became a regular show and it burned out and this this should be back on and I totally agreed with him, and he sort of developed a

really special. We knew the twenty anniversary was coming up, and he developed a way to make it feel like an event like it did before, and a lot of this stuff you knew and loved Pa Millionaire, but he also really innovated, and I think it helped to having Jimmy. And we aired a special where Jimmy said with Regis and I think regious even you know, Reis gave his blessed. I think he's thrilled said if anyone's going to do it,

it's Jimmy, and I think that means a lot. So it feels like it's really true too, everything that made it great, but it also feels really relevant. And like I said, we did without an audience, so it really feels relevant now. Rob on your watch, the the the caliber and the number of game shows has really has really climbed on ABC. Can you talk about the business of game shows and why they're so attractive to the network? Well,

they're they're they're great. Obviously, they're inexpensive. Um, I don't necessary for whatever reason, we have not done We've not had one, and I don't think we've had one that had the caliber of success that Millionaire did back in the day, so we haven't run the sprockets off them. And it really sort of honestly, it started when I first got this job. The first thing I knew would work. I've been watching Steve Harvey on Family Feud forever and

I knew that a primetime version would work. Whatever. It ended up being Celebrity just because we wanted to differentiate it from the syndicated version. But it's sort of snowballed from there. There was no you know, preconceived idea of okay, once you know, after Celebrity Family Feud, we're going to do eight more game shows. It just sort of worked out that way. Uh, that worked, and then Michael Strand came to us and said, I'm dying to do Pyramids,

so that was a no brainer. And then we started thinking, okay, how do we make a night out of this? And then it was okay, Match Game was great, and that that could be a great ten o'clock show, and the fact that Alec Baldwin wanted to do it was great. And then these things just kept working. So it's snowballed. And the great thing about game shows is they're all different.

I mean, they're so Jeopardy is different from Weave of Fortune, which is different from Family Feud, which is different match game, which is different from Millionaire. So it just was, okay, let's just if they're good, and the fact you have so much different and great talent that want to host these things, Um, they really can become great, great propositions. It's fair to say that these are you know, these are very efficient hours of program for ABC, and that

does help make them attractive. Yes, absolutely, I think that definitely helps. Um. I think you still don't want to do too many of them or run them forever, but even in the short runs they've been, they've been very good to us. Is there something about the summer months, like people people it's a little more casual, people are more inclined to kind of slip into a game show.

I think that's a there's a little bit of that, But also for us, it just was always that's when alternative programming really kind of premiered and where we had the time slot, So it was it was a little bit of both. I still think absolutely you could have game work in season. I think Ellen's Game of Games works great. Um. I think if there were slots and there was something that we really felt we could do

we could do more of in season. Absolutely, I would definitely, you know, I wouldn't be against it, but I agree there is something that the summer you just sort of want to relax, and I mean no, the equivalent of beach reads. You know, you just sit back and enjoy yourself. You guys also took a great shot this past season with Tiffany Hattish, putting her in a kind of a different in a different role that is. You know, I gave you a lot of credit for seeing her in that.

And as soon as you see her as the host of kids say the darnest thing, it's like, oh my god, of course, but to see her, to see her initially as a good candidate, I UM give you guys a lot of credit for that. Um, the show I thought. I just I found the show charming. Thought they did a really nice job of kind of adding some new elements. Um, how was it for you guys? Oh it was great.

I mean you believe me. I wish I could say we were complete visionaries and saw Tiffany, But honestly, everybody under the sun wanted to be a business with Tiffany Aish. I mean, she is the minute. You saw her in Girls Trip and you've seen her done um Jimmy kimme alive telling she told this story about group on if you've ever seen it, that was sort of I mean just you knew this woman was star. So we had really wanted to figure out something with her and then

we were Look, we were fortunate. That's I think it's literally just about a year ago. Last April, she came in with this package and Eric Shots, who produces kids, say that darnis things We had always talked about it because that's another one too. Like you said, Cynthia, that you just you grew up. You know you you you loved it, you watched it. There's certain things that are

just timeless. This is one of them. And we always said, God, if we can find the right host, it would be great to bring it back, and he to his credits attached Tiffany, and for us, yeah, it was like a no brainer. We always think about gosh a f V, which I know you're a huge fan of as well. It is such a great it's been such an anchor for us for over thirty years, and what is how you keep that audience there? And this just was sort of like, Wow, this is the perfect show to go

with it. So it was. It was really a privilege, honestly to do it. Kids, cameras and unpredictability. What could go wrong? Nothing? Absolutely? Actually a little more serious now, let me ask you about, of course, another one of your the great franchises that I know you are continue to groom is The Bachelor, which utterly defies the gravity

of both ratings and just pop culture buzz. It is, you know, my like a lot of my Twitter feed is given over I think two people talking about The Bachelor when the show is on in this environment, given the public health situation, does that make it hard to do that, to do a new version of that show or a new a new season of that show right now? Does that have to be paused to to your point, it has sort of defined gravity and it's lasted now

it'll be it's just about twenty years old. I think it's it'll be twenty years And I think the reason for that is the show has not existed in a vacuum, and it's always evolved and it's been different, and the the venture you watch now is very different from season one and two thous two. When I think that everything about it has has changed and trying to update, and

so I think that'll be the case here. I think everyone is looking at thinking, Okay, how do we do the show now, how do we reflect the times we're living in, how do we be nimble and how do we get back into production as quickly as possible? So I think that it might be different, But like I said, it's different now than it was ten years ago too, So it's still going to be everything you know and I love about the franchise, and it is one that

literally we have meetings every day about it. Nobody takes it for granted. Um, So I think that's it's still there's absolutely a way we can do it, and hopefully that way is going to be sooner rather than later. When when if everything was it was, you know, as as normal let's call it. When when would you be going into production on a new ver, on a new season of the show, Well, I think you would, you know, again,

everything keeps my first. That was another one too. We stopped down for two weeks and then it was okay, maybe it's two more weeks. Um, we still don't know when normal is, but we're looking at as many different variations of it as possible, whether it means not traveling or not traveling as much, or not going by planes, or just finding one place that we do the entire

thing in and making sure everyone is tested. And so it's almost like you know, bachem and quarantine basically, um, we'll look at all those things because I think at the end of the day, this is to your point about idol too. We just need that normal sy. We need to know that these things uh need to be done safely, but they can still be done. Let me

ask you. And not being entirely versed in the minutia of Bachelor's the show, the show does it seems to be an engine of kind of of its own you know, sort of scandals within the contestants or within some aspect of the production. Is that you know, this might be a hard question for you to answer, but is that is that in and of itself, the fact that there's a scandal about this person or that person, or something

is revealed about that person's deep in the past. Is that all a crew to you know, keeping the show high in the Twitter rankings and keeping the you know, keeping the ratings very strong. Does all that noise around the show really help in the end. Yeah, I think at the end of the day, I found that. I mean I've sort of I've seen it when people don't care as much and when they do and every then, and I think that at the end of the day, the enemy of this show is ampathy. When people don't care,

that's when. So I think that absolutely. I mean, you never like the word scandal to be used with any show, so sometime hopefully if they are, they're minor. But they're all stuff that is relatable, you know. I mean, whether it's getting your heartbroken or somebody leaving you for somebody else, or wanting to be loved and not finding love, or everybody being in love. I think that all those scandals are scandals that we've all sort of had in our life at one point or another. And that's what makes

the better so universal and relatable. Is everybody wants love. It is. Those are the stories of drama going back, you know, thousands and thousands of years. That's that's exactly. It's a tale as all this time. Let me ask you, when I talked to a lot of um nonfiction producers these days, there there's a lot of is I don't have to tell you it's a you know, the nonfiction producing world is a group of largely small operations. Many there's been a lot of acquisitions in the last ten years,

and there's been some roll ups into larger firms. But if you talk to kind of the classic producer that runs you know, that that runs his or her own shop and you know, can be prosperous with a couple of shows, it's it's it's hard times for these companies that really have been the bedrock of of this community.

What is your sense from talking to people, and again, I guess i'd say, you know, setting inside of this this shock that we're in, but just generally, do you feel like there's concern in that community for people that have been very important providers of programming for ABC and many others. Do you do you sense that people are hurting.

I haven't sensed it yet. I mean, I think that they've been very good about being nimble and finding stuff that either can be produced right now, whether it's remotely, or things that can get back up on their feet quickly. I mean, I think that you'll see, depending on how long this goes, if scripted really gets you know, bogged down to where it's the equivalent of a writer strike. Um, they might be busier than ever. Um So I think

that they're busy right now. I think they don't really have as much time to think about the hard times, but they're busy thinking, Okay, what can I do? How can I be be doing? Is? How can I use this to my advantage? Do you feel like, um uh? There's also been a lot of talk about, you know, kind of a dearth of of certainly new formats, new ideas. Do you feel like you have a steady stream of

of options walking through your door? Do you feel any diminishment in you know, options or formats or pitches that come in again prior to the prior to the current situation. No. I mean I think that what we've learned is there might be only a certain number of stories that could be told, But it's how do you what is the

difference spin on that? And I think that obviously the sort of prime example that was the mess Singer, which is not that different from something like Dancing with the Stars or or Idle, but it really took this this twist on it and made it feel completely different. And I think you're seeing that now with producers who realize that you don't have to reinvent the wheel or do something crazy that doesn't make sense, but it feels completely different.

But just the flourishes you put on and the things that you make it feel different really are kind of what what separated, and we're getting a lot of great

innovative pitches that way. I think that a show we did last summer that's coming up this summer, Holy Moly, which was you know, a mini golf tournament and was kind of crazy, but the way they produced it made it feel fresh and different, and we're really proud of that one that there's a layer of humor there that was that was fun and could really could really work right now exactly. That's that's right. I think people will

be very happy when it comes back. Rob. Anybody that follows you on Twitter knows that you are a true student of television and a big fan. What is your Twitter? What is your Twitter handle? It's you know, it's very complicated because I sort of signed on knowing what Twitter was all these years ago. I probably would have ate it simple, but it's it's nil z M I L L S Y one one three step four So all right, well my birthday January thirteenth. N Well, now we'll remember

to send you a present. But any you know TV fans, fans of kind of interesting arcane TV should follow that because Rob is a good poster. Um, tell me so again. Knowing that from your Twitter feed, what was it that got you into the business? How did what? What made you want to become a become an executive? It sort of suited me perfectly because you get to develop things and be creative. But I do like the business aspect. I love getting the ratings every morning and seeing what's

worked and what didn't. And that's something I always liked growing up too. So I'm incredibly lucky. What opened the door to you? Like? What what started you on on the path that you're on, uh, in terms of just this job getting here, this job, or just your career in your career in TV in general. Well, knowing you know, I don't think I necessary. I love film, I love TV,

So even that was sort of happenstance. I just knew I wanted to do something, so I came out to I came out here in nineties six after I graduated college, and just knew I didn't know what to do, just knew I wanted to get in, and somebody was fortunate to say, go work at a talent agency because you'll make context there. And again, I could have been put anywhere. I happened to be in TV. And at that point it was the head of uh what, they didn't even

know what to call the group. I think they got an off network because they didn't know what alternative TV was. This was three months before Survivor and you watched the whole thing explode and Andrea Wong kind of there was an opening there as an assistant to the head of Late Night under Andrea Wong, and so she hired me and I've been here ever since. But it was all very kind of happenstance, just knowing that I'd be happy kind of doing anything whatever was in this business, because

I did. I did. I absolutely loved it. Well again, now you're now you're are an executive in charge of a whole lot of shows that we just spoke about. Thank you so much, Rob for taking the time out. I hope you and your family are well and stay well in all this and look forward to a sequel that we can do in person. You two Cynthia, I'm excited for that. Take care. Thanks Rob, thanks for listening. Be sure to tune in next week for another episode of Strictly Business.