Get the entertainment you love with a little help from Google. No more jumping from app to app. Google TV is built into smart TVs and streaming devices that brings together movies and shows from all of your subscriptions. Need inspiration, get curated recommendations. Use Google's powerful search to find shows across ten thousand plus apps, or browse hundreds of free channels and with personalized profiles. Everyone's experience is customized for them.
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Welcome to Strictly Business, Variety's weekly podcast featuring conversations with industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm your host, Cynthia Littleton, I am co editor in chief of Variety. Today's episode hails from Austin, Texas in the South By Southwest Festival. Kate Arthur, Variety's managing editor, hosted a Strictly Business Live event on March fourteenth about the
burgeoning business of microdramas. Google TV is making a big push into the format, adding apps to its central hub, as well as discovery and navigation tools. Arthur speaks with Juan Ho Duran, Global head of Media and entertainment content Partnerships for Google and Tommy Harper, who was a veteran producer of film and TV. Harper has just launched the AI powered startup VU, which is producing and distributing microdramas.
The two discuss the potential of the vertical drama market and how they hope to grow it in the US and other territories.
JUANH. Duran is Google's global head of Media and Entertainment Content Partnerships and Tommy Harper is the founder and CEO of VU, and he flew in from Dublin last night. So can you talk about what Google TV is due with the format and what the viewing experience is like.
To help understand, Like, there's the traditional way you consume this content on where the content originates in the apps, and the traditional ways you go to the app store in this case Google Play and download the app and consuming this content. Again, the reality is that at least in this other side of the world, not everybody is a work of that and it's a little bit foreign
on how to deal with that. So what we are doing is on we have the Google TV app on on mobile, which is a place where you engage with content you have your watch list, you have your watch next based on the streaming services that you are subscribing and all of that, and that's the place where you rent and buy movies. And what we're doing now is we are making episode from most of our most major partners available in the in the in the app, and
we just launched that last week. We're super excited about it and it's tremendous way for us to showcase to the audience, but also an interpoint in the industry for partners like Tommy and many other producers that want to get into space but perhaps don't want to go with the hassle off managing and creating an app.
Tommy, when did you decide to get into this business?
I would say last May. I read an article it was in the Financial Times about the vertical microdrama space and the boom of it, and I wasn't aware of it at the time, so I kind of like start studying it from that point on. And I was in Spain on a train reading the article and at the same time, these team girls got on it and literally popped it on their phone and started watching micro dramas on their phone, and so I realized like there, it
just hit me right. It was all kind of the stars aligned, and so I did a deep dive in it. I started meeting with all the platforms executives at the platforms CEOs and producers that were making the content. And traditionally my day job is TV and film, so I came.
I came into the space of like a student. And one of the things what I did right away was reach out to a few actors and I found one that was producing a independent microdrama called Love Underfire, and so I invested in it and produced it and just learned at the ground floor. And I found it fascinating because as a producer, I just liked making things and I like doing I like this style of making it fast. From the business side, I like the platform building.
How did you to start talking? How did you get into business with Google?
My vcs are very tight with Google. They used to run Google Ventures, and so there was a natural course of let's connect you. And then from the first moment on we sat down and start talking about it. We knew there was a lot of opportunities at play here. So we're continuing conversations daily and yeah, been great partner.
Yeah, similar I think we have really tied connections with the English Fry under partners that we're managing, and we began sharing our plans and how we were thinking about it, and then that's how some of those deeper conversations came on.
Tommy, as someone who produces, like a show like Wednesday, can you talk about the vast differences and how these shows are made and in the productions, I mean the timeline, the budgets, Like, how does that work?
From one side of the spectrum? Is you do Wednesday or Top Gun. You're creating these things for years, you're developing them. It is a massive undertaking to build the world and kind of like the brand, and it takes two years to get the script drive, it takes a year or two to shoot them, a year to promote them. The opposite with this. I was on the phone this morning talking about a project and saying, Okay, can we shoot in six weeks? And my producer for Verticals was like, yeah, yeah,
that's fine, the problem, We'll be ready. It's the complete opposite, which I love. So that part excites me and I think what we want to do is push the boundaries. I want to do everything in the vertical space that in a way I'm doing in my trudition TV and film with the understanding of what works right, I'm not going to try to change that. I understand what works, I understand that efficiencies, But I want to do action. I want to do you know, or I want to
do romance. I want to hit like you know gen Z World, And we're very much PG thirteen. We don't go hardcore seventeen and all that stuff. But I think that the audience is this is a TV in your
pocket and everybody's on it. Everybody's watching. So if you can give the content that people want to keep coming back to, and you kind of learn what's worked in traditional TV and film with good stories and good actors and just making people kind of want to be engaged, I think that can work in this format just just as much as it does everywhere else.
Wanho there. Because this is such a new format, there aren't a lot of like experts about this yet. Can you compare what you're seeing with micro dramas to like the wild West of the early days of YouTube another Google product.
Began my career at Google YouTube, and some of the trends that I see compared to what's going on right now in micro dramas are so similar. I remember the days when we're convincing big media companies to put their content on YouTube and monetize that content, and it was a part of the shift at the time they began putting it, and then the process on created content also began for YouTube, but then the problem was to helping them change how they were producing for a platform like that. And I
see that happening right now. I see that what's going on is you need to kind of forget what you know and and but at the same time utilize it to go and create content for a platform and a vertical. That it's different in the pace, as Tommy was saying, different how you think in the back end operationally, on how you're releasing, how you're engaging with the partners. So what we're doing is we're helping the industry. We're helping
with workshop. We're going to be having one in in LA in late September to make sure that we are fostering the industry. And really what is happening is that transforming that lack of understanding of how things are going to go into more proficiency and getting into that and for for professionals and producers like Tommy being way easier to get teams to work on this type of content and make it it bigger. But yeah, tremendously correlation chained.
So you need to go and study what's going on there, and we need to bring people that know, and that's what we're doing, bringing people from APEX from Asia mainly to help disseminate the knowledge.
What do they know in Asia that we don't know yet here.
I think it's a correlation on how how you think about the content and the data. Usually it's it's you think different you you on traditional media and Tommy might be or is way better suited to speak about this than me. But the way you think about it, you think about like the whole process in the beginning, and they are thinking one batch at a time, and at the same time, they are making adjustments and they are completely shifting in different ways and they are utilizing that data.
And I think that's the piece which is very similar. At the end of the day. As a YouTube creator, you need to understand how your audience behaves and you need to serve that audience specifically and utilize what the platform tells you. So in traditional media you have several
ways of distribution. In this place, you're going to have the app, you're going to have potentially the release on a transactional platform like ours and goal to be so you need to understand and be able to adapt and make it successful.
Tommy, YouTube started as outside of the mainstream, and now it is the mainstream. It'll have the ass in a year or two, which is unthinkable when you remember back to what YouTube started out as. Do you see microdramas as feeders for mainstream entertainment in the way that YouTube has.
I think it's a place to actually find talent and find ip I'm having these conversations now with studio partners and different people. I think. I think what's interesting is if I go make a movie, I'm paying more for a script that I'm paying to produce a microdrama. So I think it's a chance for every creator to go make something on their own personally. Like for us, for our platform, we don't have to produce it in house. We just want to make kind of premium vertical content
to put on our platform. We want to essentially be like HBO meshed up with TikTok and and so we want to elevate the content put on our platform, and in order to do that, we're open to stars everywhere. And I don't think like a few of my directors, for instance, I've found on YouTube, I've seen their shorts on YouTube. I reach out on Instagram or whatever, I dmm, they reach back, We do a zoom and then they're writing stories now and one just directed one for us
two weeks ago. So I'm looking for creators everywhere. They're going to have a shot. Then studio can hopefully look at them and look at their stories that they're telling us. And I think it's the same with actors. So for us, for our platform, we're looking for actors that are in the space, actors that have acting chops and they can
really bring it. But a few of the stories that we're developing right now are with more influencers and either on TikTok or YouTube, or comedians that are hilarious but haven't gone in the narrative form yet, and we're going to give them those opportunities.
Can I chime onto that once, please? I just want to go back in time and think about several years ago, would we think that streaming services content will be off for nomination on the Ulscars and where we are right now, and then if you change or add to that the fact that consumption habits are completely changing. New generations are
watching in a new way. So I think going back and summarizing yes, potentially, yes, but I think the industry and everybody needs to adapt, and that's what we're trying to do. So it's super exciting.
Get the entertainment you love with a little help from Google. No more jumping from app to app. Google TV is built into smart TVs and streaming devices that brings together movies and shows from all of your subscriptions. Need inspiration, get curated recommendations. Use Google's powerful search to find shows across ten thousand plus apps, or browse hundreds of free channels and with personalized profiles, everyone's experience is customized for them.
Search for Google TV to learn more, or find us at a retailer near you.
Tommy, can you see turning it into a show or a movie? For in the more traditional like would you use it as an incubator?
That's what I want to do. We have a projects that we have developed and have scripts for that are like action franchises, that if they work in this space, we could spin them off in TV or film. Same with all genres. Essentially, I think that I think there's a version of what happened in Asia where you had the web novels that were very successful, they had the data, they knew what worked, flipped them into microdramas, and then
now we're watching them here. We're not doing so much of that, but what you could do is do the microdrama version, if it works, flip them into TV and film. And you're doing it at a cost point where it's like you're not even you're barely getting a treatment out of a writer on the feature side, and here you have something that you can look at and study, and you have data, you have all the information, and so I think it's yes, we're very excited about that part. I'm talking to studios about that.
In particular, I assume that there are academics somewhere who are studying why Quibbi, which came out in twenty twenty, I believe, and had a similar idea but a very different business model. Huge stars, very high budgets, but short consumable content on the phone right when everyone was stuck at home, can you talk about what your thoughts are about what Quibi knew and what it did right and what it did wrong.
This is the first thing that comes up when we began to discuss this type of content with traditional media partners. They all have this fear of going into this space, and that's what's going to happen. First of all, I think they were ahead of their time and timing was
not perfect. But I think the main mistake, if I can summarize there potentially as you were saying the or should be major statues on this, but I think it was treating the content the same way, just in a different viewing ratio or aspect, just thinking the same thing is going to work and I'm gonna consume it on a vertical way, and that is what I think the industry went into, Like yeah, it makes sense, the idea makes sense, but you need to adapt and you need
to kind of think it in a different way and not just like bring that. What we are seeing is we're talking with traditional media partners since a couple of years on when we began sewing this trend, and they were not sure about it. And you see what's going on. Disney and NBC announced on Disney Claws and Peacock this
week that they are going into vertical content. And the announcement came with and this is public I'm not sureing anything that it's not being shared already, but the announcement came with the fact of them saying what Tommy was going into, we are gonna utilize this to understand more of how this content is being consumed. But then at the same time we're going to be getting into some things that are going to be from our carrent ip
being produced into some other things. I think you need to spend some time again going back to the initial questions on the correlation with YouTube and understanding and not treat this as just the same media and just the same consumption and habits. You need to understand that this is potentially a different animal.
Tommy, were you thinking about Quibi's what they did right, what they did wrong?
I get asked this question with every investor on the film side, on the studio side versus a tech side. Tech side, you can get through it pretty quickly. On the film and TV side, they want to really know what you think about it and listen. Thank them for doing it first. But I think it's the model was is drastically different, right, Like I think what works is you keep the cost point efficient.
Can you talk about the aesthetics of the genre. I watched Love under Fire and I enjoyed it, but it's so different from there's like telenovella, can't be aspects to it.
Love Underfire is going to come out soon and this is the one the independent that I that I produced and invested in and we were I mean we shot it over the summer and we used a virtual wall to try to make the production value more and from that point to where we are now is shocking with what's happening with AI and visual effects mode AI. As I say, but we're basically trying to just elevate things to look better and to feel better and to travel globally,
and I think you can. And this one in particular is very much like a action romance genre and Hanson and the Stone or something like that from back in the day. So you know the telenovelas they work for a reason. So for our company, we're working with like
traditional TV and film writers in the space. But what ends up happening is when those scripts come in, they're long, right, So then I have a writer in Asia that consults for us, and she'll give very detailed notes and then literally I would say second or third past the writers hit it, and so that that's really good to see and the actors in the space that are working in the microdrama space or reading the scripts going this is
actually really exciting for us because they're different stories. Like, I think what needs to change really fast is you know, like especially on our platform, we're not doing not abusing women. We're not slappy, and we're not drugging, we're not doing anything. We're not interested in that, We're not doing any of that, and that genre needs to change immediately. But I think, like aesthetically, back to your question, I think it's it's
all about helping the filmmakers have the tools. To give them the tools and talk to them about it, about framing, style, light costumes, all that stuff will elevate it immediately.
Wano. I just wanted to ask, do you see I mean, we have a Google TV at home, and you know we have the tiles like the Netflix and on the HBO Max, and do you see there being like a vertical drama? I mean, how much do you see this migrating to an actual television.
The reality is that it has been happening for years. YouTube in the living room has been that from factor has been the fastest and largest for several years, even from the time that I was working there. We just recently launched about a month ago Instagram on Google TV, and that just speaks about the fact on how different generations are consuming the same type of content in different form factors, and that's something that we're very excited about
in the platform. It's not only about the TV side. You can watch and make it available in the car, in your tablet, in your phone, smart speakers and different things nowadays. But what's going on is that social element of watching content. We believe that it's going to be growing.
So what we're doing is we're catering to that type of content because at the end of the day, you cannot treat it the same way as you treat like huge ten poles from traditional media partners, and there are some elements in the back end that are doesn't work the same. So when you work on things that are very useful for users, like they continue watching role, that requires a lot of technical and edge work in the back end, and we don't have the elements in the
past to work on that. Now we're working towards that and we're going to be able to provide that same experience but for vertical content. So I think what you're going to see this year and in the coming months is that evolution on our platform and Google TV on how you integrate not only script form but also social content.
Will begin obviously with our first party service, which is the in house YouTube, but you'll see that roll out to all of our other partners, and then hopefully that's going to be a seamless way for you to connect and consume content. And at the end of the day, why I'm excited about this is this is going to be a way to showcase what's going on for a lot of people that perhaps are not yet consuming dot content.
And the beauty again of Google TV, what I love the most is you get content that means something to you. With all the signals that we know about you as a user, you're going to be able to get something at the right time, at the right moment, and hopefully this is going to be part of that experience for the audience.
Thank you both so much for this. This was a great conversation.
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Get the entertainment you love with a little help from Google, no more jumping from app to app. Google TV is built into smart TVs and streaming devices that brings together movies and shows from all of your subscriptions. Need inspiration, get curated recommendations. Use Google's powerful search to find shows across ten thousand plus apps, or browse hundreds of free channels and with personalized profiles, everyone's experience is customized for them.
Search for Google TV to learn more, or find us at a retailer near you.