Welcome to Strictly Business Varieties podcast featuring conversations with industry leaders about the business of entertainment. I'm Cynthia Littleton, Managing editor of Television for Variety, and today my guests in New York are Michael Strahan and Constant Schwartz. The two are business partners in the production and management company Smack Entertainment.
Michael is all over TV these days as the co anchor of ABC's Good Morning America, a football analyst for Fox, and the host of ABC's primetime game show One hundred thousand Dollar Pyramid. But behind the scenes, Michael and Constance are busy developing and producing a wide range of content, and Smack is the management home to talent ranging from Whiz Khalifa to Aaron Andrews to Dion Sanders. Here the two talk about the steady growth of Smack, where the
company motto is, how so like you're broke. Welcome to my guest, Michael Strahan and his business partner, Constant Shorts. We're going to hear a lot about the business that they are running together, Smack Entertainment. Uh people know, of course, anybody that watches TV know that Michael Strahan is one of the hardest working TV personalities, but they probably don't
know that. Behind the scenes, Smack Entertainment is producing shows like The Joker's Wild hundred thousand Dollar Pyramid, lots of documentary features for NFL Networks and other outlets, and also on in all of your spare time. There's also a management of talent management component to the business. Let's unpack Smack Entertainment. Let's start with the name. How did you guys come up with? Well? Smacks dance for sports, music and culture, and it's kind of everything that we are
involved in. We're involved in the sports element with myself and some of the other clients that we manage. Um music, we were involved in that because with Khalifa, one of our clients, and con background and culture because what we do kind of speak to what the culture is is today. So kind of all encompassing and what we what we built, and what we how we operate and it's really pretty pretty simple. S m A. C. Leave the koff for savings, I guess as a Mattress commercial constance. When did you
and Michael joined forces together as business partners? We joined forces to start the company about seven years ago, but We met over twenty years ago when I worked at the National Football League and he was playing, and then I started managing him right when he retired, which is about ten or eleven years now. Yeah, can you she was the baby back when I met her twenty than years ago. She was um teen. Yes, I was a job. I'm just saying. It was a progy in high school
with agewise. But but no, we met. She was at the NFL over twenty years ago, five years ago, and I retired ten years ago. But in between that time of myself of con being at the NFL, her leaving the NFL to go in another direction, and my still being in the NFL, we always remained close. We were always great friends. And when I retired, it was just natural, because she was in this business for me to say, hey,
would you help me out? And I gave him a lot of credit because when I left the NFL, a lot of people didn't stay in touch with me because you know, there was no benefit to them anymore, like no more Super Bowl tickets or game tickets and things like that. And that's okay. And I give Michael a lot of credit because he really went out of his way because I left New York and moved to Los Angeles, and every time he came out there, we got together.
We got pancakes that I hoped, and I brought my own syrup, and that was a little embarrassing that I wouldn't crawl under the table, But then again, you have very specific taste in syrup. One of our mutual best friends, Jay Glazer's family owns a farm in Vermont and they make this amazing like homemade syrup from a tree, and so it was so good that I at the time, they didn't make travel size bottles, so they sent me the big jugs and I poured it in my temp
aware and off we went. But you did use my Sarah. I didn't want you to be embarrassed, Alan, so I stuffed it. And what in this transition period, what was it? What was the opportunity that you saw that could be filled with smack? I had great experiences. I worked at
the National Football League for ten seasons. I worked at a record company for a year, and then I worked at a management company, which is where I became Snoop Dogg's manager and worked with many other clients and it was amazing and I love what I've done and continue to do, but the time came that I wanted to start doing it for myself. And in hindsight, I probably could have started this sooner, but I just needed that kick in the pants because I didn't have that, I
think sense of self confidence. I needed to go out on my own. And so when this opportunity arose, it was really because there was no company like what we've created. It was, you know, either you're going to be a manager, you're going to produce television shows, or with my background,
it was branding, marketing, and endorsements. And so that's we're really where Smack came from because they said, if we can take the last twenty years of our collective experiences and start this and build it, who knows what what could come of it? And you know, I want to say when we did started, he was still just doing not just but he was on NFL on Fox, and that was it from a television perspective, and so we, uh, we're just grinding and hustling. And one of our mantras
is still to this day, hustle like you're broke. And that's not just our mentality, but our entire company and all of our clients to today, what is the size of the company in terms of employees and in terms of thirteen employees to offices l A, New York, UM trying to open one in the Caribbean. She wants to kind of one in the Caribbean. Other you know, we
never get any work done if we moved. But yeah, but thirteen employees, two different offices across New York and and l A and the third team probably do the work of thirty. And we have a very dedicated team. It's more like a family. Is how we operate and how we how we go forward with our business, and we we we give everybody responsibility. We're not we're not micro managers. Everyone is trained and everyone is given a responsibility, and everyone's given the the understanding that hey, if you
have an idea, you're part of this. You don't work for us, you work with us. And through that we've been able to build UM or have people when we work with who really dedicated what they do and go out of their way and they understand what we're trying to build and they are a big part of it, and and they take pride in that and really get
their business. They're very empower and we don't give titles because one of the challenges I faced coming up because I started as an assistant, which people would look down upon you or not listen to what you have to say if you had a lesser title than them. So we intentionally don't let them have titles. So if we're sending someone into a room on our behalf, if we trust and respect them, then we expect the same from
the other side of the room. What was the breakthrough piece of business that really made you feel like you guys were really running a company? You know, it's it's crazy. I think that's Constance said when we when we've first like really start doing this. I only had for me personally was only Fox NFL Sunday and a few little music things here and there. But it was it was a big chance and a big step to have this office space in l A. At the time, we were
renting in place. Now we've moved on to buy our own building, but that's when I felt we made it. That was the break yeah, for Constence, when we bought our own office and and that was her big breakthrough. I think my big breakthrough hasn't happened yet. I mean I understood. I think my big breakthrough is when I don't know, I don't know when it happen from one who's sitting Yeah, where we are, I think because I know the potential of where we are, where we can go,
and where we are heading. So and I'm always never somebody who looks back, because if I look back, then I think it keeps me from looking forward. I was always like that in sports and everything else. But I would say, from where we started to where we are now is night and day. Because we were trying to develop a daytime television, you know, we had uh Telepictures came and said, Michael, we'd like to we consider, you know, we like to possibly develop a daytime show around you,
and put together a list. We put together as a list of all these names of TV personalities, actresses, um and and just personalities. And we reached out to so many of them and couldn't get a call back. I couldn't even get a sniff, couldn't even get a response
except for a few who I always respect. I'll always go out of my way for and to now be able to pick up the phone and call that anybody will pick up, you know, And now the people think that the success that they see was easy and it wasn't like we've been grinding at this for a long time, and and and and we're still still building. I mean, we're still and we consider ourselves a start up. Yeah, but I think we grind that if we feel that
that that respect of disrespect. I guess in the sense that people didn't think that we would be successful in what we're doing, and now that we have some success with it, we're not letting it go. We're going to continue to push until we you know, eventually moved to the Caribbean WIS concept in twenty years the Jamaica office. Um,
but understandably that respect factor. You know, so many people see production companies that are that are involved with talent as a vanity place that it's not, you know, it's not a serious company. You know, you guys have bought a building and have employees that that is it, That is a serious company. What would you say, was it? Was it? You know, really building a roster of productions? Was it? I know, you have you have business in
the retail area, you have enough line of apparel. What was it that was that foundation that allowed you to be taken seriously as a company. I think, for in my opinion, we helped create and still continue to co executive produce the Nickelodeon Kids Choice Sports Awards, which are going to be in their fifth year. And the fact that it started out from just a general meeting with Nickelodeon, and you know, that's what came out of it, and people world gets I mean, you know it's a small town.
Word gets around that we are hands on, not just me, but Michael. He's on all the calls, he's in every meeting and the same just as continued when Sony approached us about doing the hundred thousand dollar Pyramid reboot, and they'd heard great things about Michael as well, and they're the first to say they can't believe like how he self produces while he's on set like after you know, in between, he's in the control room with everybody. He's
in rehearsals when he doesn't need to be. And I just think that that's what gets around town, is that people find out like how hard we work, and we don't end when production ends. That's when you know, we say the gap goes out there and makes the rounds because Michael then can go on any talk show, any interview to then promote the shows, whether he's on them
or not on them. But yeah, but I also think that you know, Coln given me a little bit too much credit because it is truly a team that team effort and they point me in a direct in and I go, basically, it's what it is. But but I do believe for both of us are very important to be involved in anything because if you're gonna get credit for it, you can feel good if you're taking credit
for something you really were part of. And if you're gonna get blamed for something that with the failure, at least you know you put your best in it because you really put everything into and you can accept that. I don't think we could accept failure if on something that we were attached to it that we didn't put the effort into it. And and I think between the both of us and our team, we understand that for everything we have, we put maximum effort into it. And
the production side has been great. I mean we've done Tackle My Ride, a hundred thousands dollar Pyramid, the Joker's Wild,
Nickelodeon Sports Awards. Um. Now we have the religion of sports with a big series with with Gotham Chopra and and Tom Brady, and it's just been a great ride and it's mostly off of reputation of people know that if your work with us, we're gonna do everything we can to make it successful and concept I make the rounds for programs from Joker's Wild with Snoop posts, but we do sit so why am I not going to support that? And plus some great friends with Sup why
would I support him? So it's like a family if one and one person and our rosters doing something from Whiz to Beyond to Kurt to Aaron Andrews, anybody, we all support and we all make a big push through that. It's a It's a challenging time in television right now, particularly on the business side. There's never been more television than ever before, but it can be it can be challenging to be to have shows be profitable, Audiences are fragmented.
You know, it's a challenging market. But clearly you guys have been able to build a real business with with the with on the production side, what do you think is the where do you see the most opportunity for you right now? For us right now I think, you know, if you just see what's happening with the reboots. I mean, I'm excited Murphy Brown's coming back, and I've been watching Rosanne. I mean, look at what we've done with the game shows,
a hundred thousand dollar pyramid. Sony property. They came to us, which was great, and Snoop came on as a guest in season one and when when the show wraps, he pulled to the side and said, I used to watch Jokers Wild with my grandmother. Helped me bring it back, and so we started doing some research and it turned out Sony happened to own it, and so the two of us, you know, just really like dug our heels in and went to bat for it. And you know, we just uh we premiered season two, episode one this
past week. And and to echo what you're saying about how challenging it is, it's not just about the Nielsen ratings anymore. And now they're these ratings that they're seeing what's happening on social media and you know, chatter and the Internet. So it's a whole new set of challenges
that that we have to look at and address. And when a studio like Sony comes to you to do something to start with, like a hundred thousand dollar pyramid, that that gives you a certain leg up in negotiating a deal with them, I would imagine in terms of, you know, making sure that that that the venture from a financial standpoint is also profitable for you. Yeah, definitely a big difference with somebody wants you if you're going
out there like please help us. So definitely when they came to us, it was a big surprise to us. I never hosted a game show, and for them to be able to say, you know what, we have this show if you've heard of it, and I'm going who hasn't heard of a hundred dollars back in the day and ten thousand with Dick Clark, But who hasn't heard of that? And to be able to give the opportunity, given the opportunity to host it and ep it and really be a part of it as a company and
as an individual. Um was was really special and really a big chance from by Sony and through the trust of how we handled that. That's how Joker's Wild came about because they knew how we were in operating in business and we try to be great partners to our business partners, and Sony has been fantastic, fantastic with that.
So you know, we've we've hopefully our reputation speaks for itself and that's why these opportunities have come and hopefully keep speaking in this way and more opportunities continue to come as well. And I know we're working on another show Money Made. So Martin reached out to us and not you know, that's another big breakthrough moment where I call him. I said, you're not going to believe this, said Wink Martin Dale Tick Tack Dog is interested in
working with us and the two of us. I mean, I was just jumping up and down because that what a big honor, you know, considering that Dick Clark is no longer with us, Like to me, Wink is just the legend. And so we've got a couple of his shows that he's allowing us to take out. Are you able to in the deal structure? Are you able to retain ownership of shows? At times when if we create it, we can, But when it's an existing I P that
someone else owns, you can't get ownership. But we do work hard for ancillaries, whether it's you know, slot machines or global rights, because when you have a talent like Snoop who's known internationally, then you're able to go to you know, partner together and take it out globally if it makes sense. And in some of the things like you do for NFL Network like Tackle My Ride and things like that, are those are those properties that you own outright and then can exploit in other in other windows.
That one's a partnership, so we can take that one out each one. Every show is different. That's why I'm
looking at him. I was like, I can't remember like some of them obviously, you know they come to us, but there's a few of them when we come up with them or we have a partner and we can and even like Nickelodeon's Kid Choice Sports, it's we have another show that we're working with them on that came off of something that we did within that show, because we realize there are certain moments within that show that are big moments that everyone sees to remember that everyone
gravitates to. So we said, well, how about we take some of these big moments and make that a show itself, not in the long form content of a two or three hour show for kids, but in the short term, a short a shorter content um, a shorter span of content that be interesting for kids and their families. So
we're working on something like that right now. But I think for us, it's kind of paying attention to what you're in and don't get so engulfed and just what you're doing, but always have your eyes open for different opportunit of need that come off of the opportunity that you have right now, especially because, like you mentioned it, it's a much wider net now. And so there's one project we have with Aaron Andrews that we're not even
going to linear television. We're looking for some sponsors to partner with and just push it out in conjunction with the brands. That's another you know, there's so many avenues to get content on the air, So you know, having a company like that with with you know, creative minds that are coming up with things that seems like a great,
you know, a great moment for that. I would say the NFL was like I couldn't have gotten a better education than starting out at the National Football League, Like I didn't get an MBA, like I got my MBA there during those ten seasons and you did the same thing. I mean, he's super humble, but I mean when I met him, we had him on CDs that we were putting out NFL Country and NFL Jams. I want to hear that. No, that's why we don't play them anymore. I think Mom was a hit. Then Randy Travis got
on it and kind of messed it up. But he was a correspondent for a show that NFL Films produced called Under the Helmet while he was still playing. So you know, those are things that were nunheard of back then, whereas now, like you mentioned earlier that a lot of the current athletes are looking, you know, to him for the sort of the model template. And Michael is you know, top of the list of people of athletes that have
really navigated that that transition. And obviously some of it is the the secret sauce that you bring to the table. But but I think for athletes, and in particular anyone in particular who's known for doing one thing and that's all you've ever done, not only does usually the public think that's all you can do, but in your own head you kind of convince yourself that's all I can do because all I've been known for, and you don't
take chances on trying something else. And when you're an athlete, I played fifteen years, which is unheard of, and I was still thirty six when I retired, So it's like thirty six years old. Career is over. Life is over in a certain sense. And just didn't feel like that with the case. And thank goodness for constance in our relationship because I would go to the office before we working together, she just managing me, and I would have an opinion about stuff, and then eventually she said, well,
why are you sitting here basically here every day. You're getting on our nerves. You might as well be a part of your mother being a part of what's going on. You already involved anyway, And that's really how we became partners in all of this. But I think we both have a work ethic, and we both have a respect for each other, and we both are very similar and the way we think and are and and and everything.
I mean, she's a single child. I'm the youngest of six, so but but it's kind of like we out of that. We have the same sensibilities and and and it's just amazing to work with somebody who understands that, who works hard as you do, if not harder, and I she's a one person I can never complain to about working hard. Oh yeah, sometimes I do, just so you leave me alone.
But but it's great. I think athletes finally now in this day and age, you're understanding that because you're you're good good at sports does not mean that when your sports career is over, your career is over. It's the start Sports gives you, gives you a leg up on so many other people to get into other businesses. But at the same time, sports is also the thing that's kept you away from business, so you have a lot
of catching up to do. So your name will get you in the room, but you better figure it out and have your talent keep you in the room. But I also think a big advantage of working with retired athletes or current athletes is they come from a team, so there's a teamwork mentality going into things. They like to be coached. You know, there's there's curfews, there's meeting you know, there's there's it's just you're setting them up for success without even realizing it. And that's really when
we interview people. I mean I look and see when they're done with the interview, are they throwing their garbage out? Are they looking to us to clean up after them? Because you really want to make sure people are coming in with the teamwork mentality. I was just gonna ask you what kind of things you look for in people that you think would be good prospects for management. And one of the biggest things Constant said, it's how you
work with other people. Because everyone in our company, because we do so many things, from from from the production to the management to the clothing and other businesses, everyone has a role in different things. And if you're interested in something outside of what we just what's your main job is, you're able if you have the time to help out, chip in and learn about it. We don't say, well that's your job, stay away from it. That's what this person does. No, no, no no. If you think you
can add value, we encourage for you. We encourage you to add value to that. And I think through that we have employees that come to work every day. They're excited because it's not every day, it's not groundhog day, and we've all had groundhog day. Job for you going you're like every day basically the same. Well, for us, we try to make it interesting to where you come to work. You're excited about work, you're excited about the possibility that that they could bring and you don't know
what's coming. And I think that's uh has motivated our our crew and and and everyone that we work with to come to work with the right spirited attitude. And that is the thing. Wake up happy is is is our motto as well for our company. Wake up with the right attitude, because that's one of the few things you can control. You might not go to sleep happy,
but you can wake up happy. Let's talk a little bit about the about the licensing and that you have two apparel lines if I understand right, Yes, we have Collection by Michael Strahand and we have MSX and the collection by Michael straighthand is suits, ties, belt, cuff links, um, you name it. How many categories there were in six hundred doors at j. C. Penney out of their seven hundred and eighty stores, and it has been in fantastic business we've been in for the last few years with them.
And then MSX is the athletisure brand that we have with them, and it is. It has been a learning experience and it's almost as if looking at what we do is a direct lesson for everyone out there that you don't have to go to school per se for a particular business to learn about it and get into it. You just have to be brave enough to get into it. And like I said, once you're in it, you better figure it out quick. And the clothing business has been
an incredible learning because experience for us. But it's been a really, really good one and business has been great, and we continue to expand. We're expanding to jeams now and you're excited about because we don't have a women's line yet, And so when the luggage came out, it was the first thing that all the women that work on the line, we're something we got to use besides wearing the extra small and small they're going into the boys Can we make boys or they go into the
boys collection and where that stuff. So it has been a great business, but it's also it's been a collaborative business that we're very involved in every meeting. Every fabric there's not a fabric from a suit to a tie, to a belt to the underwear sufflink the underwear the tie bars. There's nothing that has not been seen I know personally by me that gets that doesn't get approved. And was that did that come about from an incoming call or an outgoing call? Did you did you pursue
outgoing interesting to a relationship? And you know it's interesting because again, like he said, we've learned a lot from it, which helps with our other clients. Because when we had the first meeting, they said, we're not ready for you, and so we went about our business for a year and then we checked back in with them and that's when the timing was right. And and but everything that we've done and when you call the outgoing, yeah, it was outgoing. We went and set up a meeting and
made this whole thing happen. But it's all organic. There's nothing that that I know personally I do we have any of our clients do that does is not organic to them. It's not something so far fetched it's unbelievable to the public. It truly is who they are and what they do and what's important to them and something that fits into their lifestyle. And for me being on TV, god knows how many days a week, I'm always gonna
suit so wearing suits very important. And then when I'm not in a suit, I'm an athles your casual guy, because I'm either running to the gym, I'm running around. So everything that we've done and that business has been
organic to me. And the shows have been organic, and the businesses an authentic and and and the businesses for all of our other clients have all fit their personalities and what they really like and what's really important to them is that when you talk about learning the apparel business, I would imagine that the constructive deals and the way you get paid is probably very different than making a
TV show or very different. We have an amazing lawyer, thank you, Brad Rose, who literally, like you know, we go through probably quarterly meetings with him and we're the first we don't know something, we call him right away, like we don't try to figure something out that could be detrimental in the in the long run, and so it is vastly different, you know. Just also you know, holding on to your I P. You know, what do
you license, what do you own? How many different companies there are, because that's how it all started nationally with that and the big biggest thing we learned it owning your brand, Yes it's yours, don't sign it over, don't
give it to anyone else. And just managing your brand as well has been you know, uh, it's the big challenge, but it's a very important thing whenever you're dealing with something that's vast as the clothing and when it comes to pay, yeah, it's different because you know TV or shows you have you you negotiate and you have your your rate and everything else. But in this there's really
no ceiling to it. You get if you can make the business happen and build the business, then there's no cap to say, Okay, this is what your salary is for the year. There's none of that in the clothing business. So potentially it is incredible, but you gotta set a lot of stuff to make that a reality. American needs, belts, American everything, everything go by it from me. Do you too have investors? Are you? Are you the principal owners?
It's the two of you, that's us. We haven't taken no money from the outside, so it's it's us and we've put a lot of not most of the money that we've made in this business right back into it because we want to grow it, And I don't think we look at this is something that's really in and out thing. We're here for the long haul to really build a business that you know, when I'm ninety five years old and we can hand it off to our youngsters and they can run it, I won't be handing
it off. I'll be a lot younger. You'll be in the Caribbean. You'll be in the Caribbean. They have they have good wife fight down there, Michael, was was a business like this? Building a business? Was that something you aspired to as a kid or do you look at this now and you're surprised that you are? I think I'm surprise thing. We're all surprised. We're surprised every day every day, and we appreciate. It's not just like shocking af It's truly like appreciate and surprise. It's truly gratitude
because I understand the alternative to it. And you know, playing in the NFL to me was I thought with the ultimate end all be all, and when that career was over, I was just happy to have a job talking on TV and have something to look forward to to do. But now to have you know, the show, do have any other businesses. It's all in a lot of way to big surprise, but great surprises because I don't do anything and have the luxury. Thank goodness, I'm
not doing anything I don't want to do. I love every show that I'm doing and and I think that's a gift in itself. That is it, that is that is truth, and that's an amazing attitude. Thank you both so much for coming in to talk to us about that's really interesting to hear about your business. Thank you for having us, Thanks for listening. Please join us next week for another episode of Strictly Business.