Josh Kennedy: [00:00:00] Today's topic is why we priced our PT sessions this way. Behind the scenes, look at what we do here at Strength Matters. Um, something that I never particularly enjoyed talking about when I was a one to one PT. Money is a dirty word, but I think it is something you need to get comfortable with. Uh, James, do you want to talk about, um, a quick history of our pricing or a quick history of typical
James Breese: PT pricing?
Yeah, we've, we've tried a lot. We've tried everything, um, to see what works best for us. And what we're not going to say is. What you should charge because I think it's different depending on each other's each each of your circumstances However, we will happily share what's working for us right now and what hasn't worked for us in the past I think also bring Andrew in as well to share what he's seen with people in charging, too In recent years as well, but I think we're going to distinguish two businesses here now So we have strength matters, which is very much online only in terms of when we're coaching people online And then you have cricket matters, which is very much a hybrid business where we're working people in [00:01:00] person and online too.
So let's start with strength matters, which is online Now you can. We've, we've tried charging $79 a month to $997 a month, right? Uh, and to see what works best. And they've all converted. However, the best price we've seen at the moment in terms of monthly recurring revenue is 2 9 9 a month. $299 a month is the monthly recurring price we're seeing.
That works best. It works best 'cause people tend to, it's high enough. But not too much to people that people have a longer lifetime value. So instead of having a 12, 12 week to six month type lifetime value, when we're charging higher, we're seeing now 18 months to two years in terms of lifetime value with our, with our clients.
That's a really important thing to distinguish. We're looking for more long term value. To see what happens in terms of online coaching as well, it becomes easier over time as well. But, what we tend to see is most people online are charging between 199 to [00:02:00] 499 a month. It entirely depends on what you are, your expertise, your services and what you want to charge.
But 299 a month is great for us. However, They don't go straight to 299. Our pricing at the start, we have three packages. Okay. Cause we want to see where people come into and we want a minimum commitment of 12 weeks. 299 is a monthly recurring package where people have passed the 12 week default. Right?
Cause we want to make sure that we want to work with these people and they're a right fit. So when in terms of online training for strength matters, we have three packages. We have the Kickstarter package. Which is for people who can't quite afford online training services. That doesn't include, uh, assessments.
It just includes a simple training package. It's safe for them to do based on what their goals are. That comes in at 2. 97 for a 12 week plan. That's just very simple. It's easy to do. It's, it's not copy and paste, but essentially it's very quick for us to administer in terms of their training. Then we have the Pro and the Pro Plus package.
The difference between the Pro and [00:03:00] the Pro Plus package is yes, obviously price. But also the level of assessments that we do with them and the level of depth knowledge we share. So the pro package is 797 for 12 weeks and the pro plus package is 997 for 12 weeks, right? So they're the ones that we kind of package as a big Price jump between the two and not so much between the top two.
But there's a reason for that because it's like the sneaky pricing model of small, medium, large popcorn, right? We want more people to come to our medium package because that's the easiest one for us to do. If we do the whole Top end type package with all the assessments, it takes a long time and a lot of data.
It's great. They get the best results. However, we kind of want people to sit in the middle. So 297 12 week Kickstarter, 7. 97 for the pro package and the pro plus is 9. 97. Those are our three price points. They can pay in three month installments or they can pay at a one off installment depending on what their budgets and what their goals are.
But that's what works best for our online coaching. [00:04:00] after many years of split testing and testing.
Andrew Wallis: Yeah, it's a good point. And James here upon the key aspects of this in that, uh, we, we want to be creating packages, not selling per session or selling five, 10, 15 session packs because, uh, clients like that, but it's not good.
We're not addressing what their ultimate goals are. Whereas a package created that specifically hits those goals. Uh, the key pointers to success, in my opinion. And that's the big thing. I find that, you know, as I say, people were are doing these session packs because that so these session packs because they're easier to sell and then they're looking at what their competition is charging.
And if they suddenly see that someone is charging less than them, then they feel obliged to undercut them. And as you say, if you're trying to undercut everybody, you're devaluing the service you [00:05:00] offer. And ultimately you're just going out of business because you're not got the right margins in place to be able to invest into your business and to ultimately then look to grow.
So avoid undercutting and pricing, reducing your pricing. Look at, um, uh, building the right package for your perfect client avatar.
James Breese: No, I'd never offer anything for free. We offer a free strategy call. I think so in terms of getting people into our services, we start with now with a free 15 minute strategy call where it's a very much.
a no sales call. It's like, Hey, what's your problem? Can we help? Why us? Why now? That's the sort of questions we're asking here, which then leads to the next call where it's more of a discovery session to see that we're, cause we know we're right fit to see what we can help and how we can help them. So there's a distinct wall between the two, but never alpha free sessions, never discount your services.
You know, you're valuable. People try and will barter with you, bargain with you for everything in terms of fitness because they think [00:06:00] they can, but just don't do it. Just don't get down to them. Never offer a free session, taster session. Classes may be slightly different. A free class, try a free class.
It's a great way, but not personal training. That's your top creme de la creme type service. Never discount it and never devalue your services.
Josh Kennedy: What about cricket matters? How does that differ slightly to strength matters in terms of
James Breese: pricing? This is a great one because there's a lot of people out there who are probably doing in person sessions, and they're thinking how we do this.
The stuff that we're doing online with Strength Matters. So yes, that's how we're doing the pricing online. But in terms of Cricket Matters, this is more in line with the PT who's working at the gym type model. So we offer a full hybrid approach to training and coaching. I think that's the best way to do it, but it all starts with our online services, right?
That's our default baseline of what we're trying to do. So if we're working with somebody in person. They are going to get the input in the [00:07:00] offline, online, sorry, stuff as well to complement it because it's part of a package. We don't want to do one or the other. It's the whole experience of getting them the best results possible.
And for us, it means combining in person. with online coaching, if that's applicable. So exactly the same thing. So when people come to us from Cricket Matters and they're coming from all over the world, we offer them three packages, the Kickstarter, the Pro, the Pro Plus, and guess what the prices are? 2. 97.
797997. Those are the three packages for 12 weeks initial commitment. We want to see a 12 week initial commitment. Then after the end of 12 weeks, if we like them, they've enjoyed it and they can come on to us. It comes on to the same default recurring package if it's on, if it's online only. But here's what's different.
I'm getting a lot of people in Cardiff who want some in person work too, particularly with the high level athletes that I'm working with, trying to make it to the pro game where they do need some in person. So [00:08:00] here's what we're doing. We're offering this hybrid approach. Now, we've said before, but we don't offer sessions.
We don't offer like, what's the word, uh, packages. Okay. All the time. But sometimes we have to, because some of the people who are working with us online to come and work with me are traveling from all over the UK. So I need to, I need to come up with a solution to help them do this. So for them to work with me in person, it's a minimum commitment of five sessions.
Which costs 500 or 100, 100, 100 an hour to work me with a minimum commitment of five sessions. That's a bolt on service. So what tends to happen is people in these 12 weeks. They'll come and work with me for one or two hours at the start as part of the online stuff, particularly in working on, uh, sprint mechanics and, uh, gate pattern.
We do a lot of work in person. They go away for a few weeks, work on their own on the online stuff, and they come back and do another two or three sessions in that same period as well over the course of a weekend. So that's why packages can be useful if people are [00:09:00] traveling from afar to come and work with you for your technical expertise.
However, we also have clients. that wanting one on one sessions on a more recurring basis. So we have to start off with the online model first at those 297, 797, and 997 packages. If they're local, right, we don't offer them the package service at all, unless we can see a few tweaks that they need to help on some pointers and technique, technique.
But then we offer the options of doing once a week or twice a week options to train with us in person during those 12 weeks and that becomes a bolt on service. You with me? So you work out what your hourly rate is. So for me, it's 100 an hour if they're going to work with me in person. So if they want to work with me over 12 weeks, One session a week.
So it's the 797 or 997 session package plus the hourly rate for those 12 sessions over 12 weeks, which would be 1, 200. Okay. However, if they welcome me twice [00:10:00] a week, then we, then we offer a slightly discounted service where they'll maybe get 10 sessions for the price of 12. You with me? And that's what they're paying here.
So we, I know what my hourly rate is. In terms of one on one sessions and it's slightly discounted if they're going for the two times a week option, but not much It's just two free sessions In terms of the 12 week package and they can pay monthly installments or they can pay up front if they want to But the online package is non negotiable.
That's the starting point Then we have the bolt on packs after that, Andrew, have I explained that? Well, that's the first time you're really seeing our model as well. Behind the scenes.
Andrew Wallis: No, I think you've explained it extremely well. Um, and I think it's important to emphasize as you have done the bolt on, you know, the upsell.
That's available and how, um, as, uh, fitness professionals, we can, once we've got our packaging in place, we can, you know, manipulate it, um, to, to, uh, fit specific, uh, cases, uh, [00:11:00] as you've shown
James Breese: there. Yeah. So it's, so we first have to figure out our hourly rate. For me, it's a hundred pounds an hour. Yours may be different.
Okay. And it's really important to. You shouldn't just say, yes, I should be charging that much. Your location dictates the price. If you're in New York city or in London, you're going to be charging a lot more. I'm in Cardiff, right? Where most trainers are here charging 40 pounds an hour. There's a reason why I've taken it to a hundred pounds now, because I'm way more expensive to the competition.
I want to be because there's no money at the bottom, right? And straight away on value. I am distinguishing myself and my authority as a trainer just on value alone. I could be a crappy trainer, right, for all people know, but on value, I'm absolutely smashing them. But it's not stupidly expensive. For the location, that's about right for Cardiff at the very top end.
It's what some of the best osteopaths, physiotherapists, physical therapists, chiros are charging as well. So I'm on that scale with those people. I'm putting myself up there with them.
Josh Kennedy: Yeah, absolutely. [00:12:00] Andrew, anything you want to just sum up with before we sign off this episode?
Andrew Wallis: Uh, just in a nutshell, um, as I say, look at putting together your packages, uh, rather than setting up your pricing so that you're not aiming towards the bottom.
You're positioning yourself. As a market leader, making sure that you do obviously your market research, um, so that you are confident that your pricing is at the level that it should be and just be deliberate and thoughtful in your pricing. As Josh mentioned, you know, if you're in London, you're going to be, uh, or should be charging more than what you would in Cardiff or on the Isle of Man or in Liverpool and so on and so forth.
But, um, yeah, just be thoughtful in your pricing.
Josh Kennedy: So, uh, fantastic. Thank you so much. That's it for today. Please don't forget to rate review and subscribe. And if you want to find out what's holding you back from growing your fitness business, go to strength matters dot com forward [00:13:00] slash quiz.