"YouTube Celebrities & Controversies" w/ Ali Macofsky

Hey everybody, it's say I'm here with a quick little announcement, and that is that we are doing Stridia Lab live back in New York City on Wednesday, April sixteenth at the Bellhouse. Couldn't be more excited. It's a special editions we're calling it Lesbio Lab, and we're discussing lesbian topics with some of our incredible guests, including Sydney Washington, Andrew Longshu, and Natalie Rodter Lateman. So the lineups to die for. I haven't been back in New York in a few

Hi George, Oh my god, I'm loving it here. Yeah, well not quite, it is. Okay. First of all, I would I'm I'm vowing not to say anything negative about Los Angeles for a full calendar year because because of because yes, because of everything Angelina's have been through. You know, I have so much effects. It's very kind of thank you. I have so much affection for the city of Los Angeles despite all my negative associations with it. Okay, sure, that said, What's the plan.

I want to go back to what you Aubredy have said, yes, which is you know you have all these issues with Los Angeles, and yet if you push tho aside, you love it.

Yes.

And that's such an amazing way to view the world, because pretty much anyone I have issue with, if you take away all the issues I share them, I love them to death. I have no problems with them at all, as long as the problems are taken away.

Where's my thing with Los Angeles? Is? I actually like, I genuinely love reading like cultural histories of Los Angeles, and I like in the I think it's like one of those things that I actually love in theory and struggle with in practice. I genuinely like I am the King of Didion, Eve bad Bets. Give me like Lana like sure music about Los Ange's, films about Los Angers

No. I think all those media sort of aggrandizings of L A R. L. I no disrespect everything disrespected Jodon John Didion. She was making stuff up.

Let's start knowing. Well, she was quite literally telling herself stories to live.

But she was fully lying. She was living in malle She was not chilling in East Hollywood.

She was something no one talks about. And she was fully in Malibu, just.

Hanging out and being like, God, I love La. She was like, no, you love Malibu.

Boki Cigrettes, not eating for five days out.

Of the drinking fully starting at noon and she's like, God, this city is amazing.

It's like and they're like, God, she's so.

Right, she's so smart. I mean there, I literally have not had a meal out in public that wasn't next to someone talking about their like aspiring modeling, acting, music career in a full calendar year. That can That can do a lot to someone. I feared leaving my home because you have to find a parking spot wherever you go. Everywhere I go, I'm stranded there. There's there's no free fun. You are just you are everywhere you go. You are

Yeah, you know nobody.

What's that?

You know that show with Adam Brody.

I'm just supposed to know every show.

No, Oh my god, this is Adam Brody, Like that's why he's having a resurgence. Two podcasting sisters.

Oh, I haven't heard of this.

It's I'm going to just keep describing it. This is not this is not good footage.

Keep going well anyway about it.

I'm just saying it's about two sisters that have a podcast in the year twenty twenty four. So it's maybe exactly what you're what the doctor ordered for you. I'm it romanticizes Los Angeles in a way where you're actually kind of like, maybe none of these people deserve to have careers or jobs.

Yeah, I just that I want to people need to say whether or not we're ubering or driving.

Should we bring in our guest away in I think.

We should, And because it's also starting to sound so stereotypical podcasting that I think we need a new energy in here.

I agree, and we're we've never been stereotypical in our lives. Everything we do is unique, and everything we do is unique and has never been done before.

Yeah. So with that being said, please on the podcast Alan Hi.

The one really is you can't say anything on original? Okay, are you from California?

I'm from Long Beach. Yeah. Oh yeah, So I feel slightly disrespectful.

About romanticizing California and romanticizing Los Angeles.

I think, Yeah, Lala Land did a pretty good job. I would say I would agree. You know, they had a full dance break musical number in the Los Angeles traffic true?

True? Ready do we claim lo lo Land? Do you remember at the time when it was like Lala Land, what you might be a Trump supporter if you like I don't remember this, and some people were like, well, if you like Lola Land, trump.

Supporter, My gosh, I don't remember that discourse of it.

It was an amazing time.

I have rewatched Lala Land somewhat recently and it's so good.

Yeah, it's actually good.

It's like I have a boyfriend. Sorry, I just need to certify this great this before discussing. But I like, I want him to cry. I think that's every woman's goal in a heterosexual relationship. Yes, I need to see him cry. I want to know that there's emotions and depth. And so when we first got together, I had him watch Marley and Me because I'm like, that's like, that's sort.

Of basically emotional.

Not a good movie, but like you will cry. And then you know, it had been some time since that. So we put on Lalla Land and he did get choked up.

Oh that's nice.

Yeah, so I'm like, Okay, Lala Land is a great movie for many reasons.

I feel like that is such a big part of straight relationships. Is women once a month being like, let's check a few his feelings again. Yeah, totally, because I'm starting to get suspicious that he might not anymore.

Well, it's almost like a scab like they over time, they just do scab up and you have to like break it off.

Yeah, you have to like remind them. Yeah, you have to show them some pain in the world and be like how does this make you feel?

This is a test that because I feel like guys are always like oh when women, you know, when you're in a relationship, and women are are like, it's fine, we know it's not fun. You just got to tell us. And then I'll be like how is your day and they're like good. So I'm like you don't give anything either.

I know.

It's come on, let's do a little deeper.

It's the comfort with like you know, it's this is a cliche, but like guys will have friends that they know nothing about and they are lifelong friends, or like I would die for him, like I'm giving a speech at his wedding, do not know a single thing about him?

Yeah, I'm starting to get into this territory with some people. Yeah, where now it's like like going out friends. I feel like I have people that I know simply from like we go to the same bar on Friday, and I'll like see them on Friday and it's like I don't know. Sometimes I'll live in forget the name. If it's been a month, yeah, I'll be like oh and hi, and it's like at what point do we I don't know if I want to take to the next level and at what point should I.

I think that's fine. I talked to my therapist about this. Yeah, there's like you can have little friend circles. So there's like the really close circle, and then there's like the acquaintin circle, and then there's maybe bar friend circle. Like there's different circles. Not everyone needs to be at the same level.

Yeah, I think what you're saying is, yes, not everyone needs to be the same level. And then the issue with the strake I think is that then, but that's their closest friends. Oh that's a good Yeah, She'll be like that's my best friend.

My well, my my boyfriend, one of his closest friends from growing up is getting married having a wedding. My boyfriend has been asked to be one of the best groomsmen, best men, whatever it's called. And my boyfriend's like, so he he couldn't be. He's like, I don't want to go. And I'm like, that's your one of your closest friends. But I think guys just don't have that connection to friendships where it's like, oh, this is an important thing.

It an inconvenient wedding especially.

You know, yeah, it's it's a nation wedding. It's it's a bit of an inconvenience. But it's like he's getting married. You gotta go, you gotta suck it up.

Yeah, it's funny because the stereotype, it's like, okay, man won't see the point of it. But then the stereotype of the sexist stereotype of course of a woman is like she's excited to go and also do emotional warfare at the destination wedding.

Yeah, I won't be able to make the wedding, so.

Because it's inconvenient, No, we're not going to go without him.

Yeah.

Wait, he's going to go.

He's going.

He just doesn't want to, yes, yea, yeah, but you can't go.

But now I can't go, which I was like, i was happy. I don't even know this guy very well, and I'm like, come on, babe, it's a trip. We'll make it, you know a thing. But yeah, yeah, guys, guys friendships straight man's friendships are very disconnected.

There is something it's a very specific experience to be a plus one at a wedding where you're hearing all these people say such emotional and intimate things and you just have to nod along and it means nothing.

For you, but it kind of means everything.

Because because you're sort of like watching them, because.

It is so like loving. It's like I'm watching a movie and I'm still invested in your life.

I don't.

Wow, I actually need to go to a wedding where I know the people even less. I think that would be really helpful because I want to test this theory because I've been to weddings where I'm like, yeah, I've like seeing you like twice a year over eight years, but like we're never really close, but I still like know a little too much to lose myself. Like it's almost like being friends with an actor and you like see their movie and you're like, well, I still know

I think for sure, because I think even more so than someone you know, because if I if one of my friends was getting married, I'd be like she'd be saying her vows and they'd be beautiful and I'd be like she was talking about him last month. I know what the real tea is.

That is really complicated because and I hate when weddings they lean too much into the deprecation and they're like, and Todd is such a fucking loser and he's lucky he got me because I hate but there needs to be a balance, and it's really hard to hit that balance.

There's a comic in New York so if Hiphelton, and they have a joke about how the premises that you should be able to buy tickets to any wedding, like it should just be on Live Nation, and like if you want to go, you should go, and it can be expensive, but like, if you want to you should go.

Of course, and obviously the family would get like a VIP section maybe exactly, maybe open bar for them.

And by the way, you recoup the funds. I mean, weddings are expended. If you sell tickets, then you can even make a profit.

I meant that's get that social media numbers up, and you can the.

Social media numbers up. We have people we can introduce you to for short form video content. They do great, great stuff over at iHeart. I just think, I mean, and you don't have to, like, if you want to be sort of like a let I you can do a non social media, non ticketed wedding.

Yeah, if you like hate the public, yeah, total hiding something.

Are you getting married?

No? No, I think if I were to get married, I would do like a little elopement. Yeah, I feel like a little elopement is cute. My grandma got eloped, which is like so fierce.

I love got eloped.

She eloped. I mean it is kind of one of those old school loves where all of a sudden you just got eloped. Yeah, but she eloped in Vegas, which is like because now she's like ninety somethings, just when she was.

Young, Yes, okay, yeah, I was like, maybe she's like has like this third act where she like fell in love in her eighties.

No, but I just love that, like back in the day when everyone's kind I feel like back in the day, everything was way more traditional. So the fact that she eloped in Vegas is real fierce pretty punk rock. Yeah.

Yeah. My grandmother, when we were younger, would sometimes let it slip that she was like very I'm trying to say this in respectful way, that in her village in Greece she was very popular as a woman. Yeah, go with my grandfather.

Yeah.

Interesting, And then we were also like, okay, like what is what is the most progressive and way to respond to this?

Yeah? Can I ask what type of language does she used to say this?

I think it's more like I think it's literally like along the lines of what I'm saying, like I was very popular with the boys or something.

Interesting.

Yeah, my grandma aged about having giant boobs, and that's why my grandpa really loved her.

Yeah, well that'll do it. Yeah, giant boobs, Vegas elopement. I mean, she's kind of a queen.

I know. I'm like kind of sad that I only know her as an old woman, because I'm like, I want to go out with you, girl, you seem fun.

It is crazy that we're now full fledged adults and we're still like figuring out that our parents and grandparents used to be young.

Yeah, totally well, and it's even worse now that I've like nieces and nephews. I'm like, oh, no, you're only gonna know me as like the old guy. Yeah.

I am trying to do this joke right now about how frustrating frustrating it is to become an aunt or an uncle or something, because no one asks you if you're ready. You don't, like, Yeah, when my sisters were like, we're having a baby, I'm like, you weren't going to ask me, Like, I'm not ready to become an aunt. Like now I have to watch my life go by through the lens of your children growing up. It's horrifying.

It's it is horrifying because even like now, my like nephew is like three, and I'm like, whoa, but I haven't changed much in the last three years. Yeah, I think that's not fair. And there's no shouldn't that shouldn't be reflected.

Back in me.

Yeah, And there's no like, like parents have so many books on how to be a good parent, and I'm like, I need a book. I don't know how to be an aunt. I feel like a deadbe aunt. Am I supposed to get them gifts? Every time I see them? How often do I talk to them? Do they even registered to me on FaceTime? Like, what's the best way to like be an active aunt in their life?

The way that you can make it your own does actually stress me out. I wish there was a set of rules, yeah, because I'm even like, do you like I'm almost like waiting to be told, like I want my sister to be like, no, get them presents, because right now I'm like, well that would be I would be annoyed if I if you guys like had a bunch of junk now, because every time I saw you, you got a toy.

But then when I show up empty handed, I'm like, you guys hate me, You guys hate me. I'm being a bad job.

Really.

The way we live truly at hebnute walk from our niece and so we see her all the time. But every time I walk in empty handed, I know it's in my head, but I can almost see my sister in law being like, oh so you just sort of can't shut up, not even like a little onesie or sort of like a little a little toy or stuffed animal.

Yeah, and speaking of the if you're listening, I don't mean any of this. I actually do want to address this. I texted you about this. Yeah, we're not a place where you want to be critiqued. This new thing, this is my new thing that I actually think is really smart. I think in the same way that no one asks for consent whether you want to be an aunt or uncle. No one's no one's asking me if I'm ready to be critiqued, And I'm not always ready to be critiqued.

Like in what sense I can comment on.

When there is a video that was boasted of us where we say something about how off and lesbians we know fall into mask and femme dynamics. Yeah, and so, as you might imagine in the comments, there is an army, a militaristic army of lesbians that are telling us to read queer history.

Wow, literally just being like it's called a book, read one, and it's like enough, Like and then I've seen this comment like at least twelve times now, and I'm like, how many more people are going to say, read a book on queer history? Like, first of all, I'm not going to. Second of all, like that's not a note you can just give someone on Instagram. Like it's also like I'm just like be mad like but like just like, I don't know, find a private place to do it.

How do you feel? What is your relationship to critique?

I think I used to be really bothered by it, and I don't know when or how it happened, but I'm like, I don't care.

I sort of been the same way. I've reached to point of zen about it where I almost see it as like I'm watching a reality show in the comments section, and I'm like, ooh, there's a new character, and like her thing is that she's actually commenting like this to every existing comment. Yeah.

I mean I've looked up all these people, every single one. I know where they live, I know what their deal is. I am not so you know how Like we've talked about how people don't have like internet media literacy especially and they'll post something really.

Stupid like only people that do actually, And.

So when people people post something like share this to say, Mark Zuckerberg, you can't have my data. Yeah, Like I'm ready to make a if any graphic designers are out there, I want a blurry graphic that says share this if you are not in a place to be critiqued. If you share this photo, you are not allowed to be.

No comments, no questions concerned.

There's also something it does about me to where it's like the same. The way that it's the same comment is like you have to look at what's already been said and be like, oh, that's that's been taking.

I think you need to I think you need to lean into it and start posting more controversial clips. So then that way, there's just so many critiques that you are like, well, I just I personally cannot take critique, so.

I agree with you. But Sam doesn't want to do that. But then when we do it, you get married. I like literally wants to Sam is like I liked it at first.

I liked like four when there were four comments I was like, I'm in heaven, but there were twenty comments. I was like, no, no, no, can I say.

Is better than exactly, there's way more personal twenty It's like, oh, they're just repeating each other.

And that's when and also to feel like bots.

It just start to feel like.

And someone sees that there's already a bunch of comments, it feels less personal for them too. They're like, and this is I mean, I hate to say, but we are also I mean, not that you and I are commenting on I never commented, I know, but like when something is suddenly, when something has more traction, it feels more faceless, and it's it might as well be like a clip from local news or something that's like going viral.

There is something where I'm like, we've always stayed in our general pool, like everyone that likes our podcast like to.

Have a guest and be like talking at you.

I think it's almost like a therapist sort of witnessing and being able to Yeah. But I think like before we've been in and this is what I said was good before, where I said like this. With this clip, I feel like we're letting go of the wall in the pool and we're kind of going into the defense.

But that's good because say, for every if you're opening the pool or whatever, more people are saying this that aren't in the group. That means like for everyone shady comment, that's like maybe at least one to one ratio of one new person being like, oh, I kind of like this, But they're not going to because because no one comments anything normal or boring, no one's gonna comment I like this.

They're gonna be like yes, We're like fuck, it's like the silent, the silent normal majority.

Yes.

And this is across the board. This is actually, this is all the listeners out there. I am issuing the spread love challenge.

You watch a video and you say this is good and you want to spread some love, comment this is good period.

See, but then you have to reverse psychology. This is what you have to You have to reverse psychology and be like no, bring it, give me your harshest thing, because when you allow people to say me and stuff, then they're going to go so easy because now it's like, well, this isn't fun anymore.

That's true, Okay, lesbians hit us with everything you've got, recommend that literature in a way that we could never ever imagine.

We are not in a fight with lesbians with this post. We are, I mean, we can't. My final word personally on this is just like we amplify queer women's voices so often, and are they It's like the people we love the most are queer women and it hurts so much to say them turned on us.

Oh this is a good clip.

Yeah yeah, Oh my god, you're thinking you want you want this to happen again.

Wait, but what was the original clip? Just that there's mask and fem and then people Definitely.

We're definitely being like flippant with our judgments and we know that we're being very much like, oh god, we can't go into it again. We're being just like we had Lisa Trey Rond and Lisa was like you know, I know many lesbian couples had fall into mask fem norms. And then we are being like, yeah, it's crazy that many lesbians we know fall into mask feminoids, which, by the way, so do like gay guys do too. They're just like sort of gi guys are just like dumber than Lesbiant.

Said this, I have a couple's therapists. Is that straight culture? I don't know.

It's hard to tell.

It's hard to tell, but my my couple's therapists because I'm like, oh, you know the norms blah blah blah, male female and she's like, no, this comes up a lot in my time sex couple. So shout out to Laura for confirming this.

Yeah, shout out to Laura.

Yeah, shout out to And that's actually the final word on this is shout out to Laura.

Yeah.

Should we do it for a segment?

I think we should do it for a segment.

Our first segment is called Straight Shooters, and in this segment, we test your familiarity with and complicity and straight culture by asking you a series of rapid fire questions where you have to choose one thing or another thing. It's sort of our shack test to see how your mind's are working. Okay, and the one rule is you can't ask any follow up questions about how the game works, because if you do, We're going to be really mad at you. Don't try to look for logic.

Okay, So I just said that's a question.

That's a question. Okay, Okay, hold on, I have to find them, Okay. Ally, a cloudy day or a poudy day.

A cloudy day, Rylo Kylie or Riley Keo.

Riley Keo?

Whoa a new season of White Lotus or a new reason to fight potus.

A new reason to fight yay?

The Woke Mind virus or the folk music Resurgence, Oh the yeah?

Totally mm, because I don't know if I'm liking these or not, like the Woke Mind virus went the ya?

Yeah? Okay, Recommending a book or complimenting a cook, complimenting a cook.

Skipping leg day or dipping to Beyonce.

Dipping, skipping leg Day, subscribing to a sub stack, or whining after a.

Nut tap, whining after a nut tap.

A professionally trained ballerina, or a suspiciously blood stained pashmina.

Ooh, suspiciously blood stained pashmina. Wow, what do you guys think about?

Okay, So we let's rank our guest performance on a scale of zero to one thousand doves, and I actually think that was a really good performance.

I think that was an amazing performance. There was there was wonder, there was natural curiosity, there was confidence, but not arrogance.

You were a woman in the beginning of a rom com who is like, everything is going really well in her life, but there's one thing missing. Like you had a natural air of curiosity about you. You there was so much happening behind your eyes. It was you were giving a really great, grounded performance and it made me think, like, I want to know what makes this girl tick?

Wow, thank you.

So i'd say eight hundred and twenty three three doves.

Thank you.

Yeah.

I love being talked about just like I'm like, wow, keep going. What else?

Yeah?

Well, you know I told you this before we were recording, but your hair is like so like beautiful and like it's actually very Los Angeles woman.

You know now that you're saying that, it makes so much sense. But I had no idea you were a West Coast.

Yeah. People think I'm like maybe some sometimes people say Midwest, sometimes people say Southern. But I think it's because I kind of mumble.

But there are handsome a California accents. Now I'm hearing not like, not super intense. It's not like Valley Girl. But there's a California cadence that I am familiar with.

Okay, I guess here's here's the weird thing that doesn't make sense. How Okay, I'm gonna spell a word. You say it, okay, f O U N t A I N fountain fountain, I say fountain, fountain.

Fountain, mountain, fountain fountain. Hmmm.

And then like my boyfriend makes fun of me because me and my mom and my sister say, I guess we say milk.

Oh, that's such a Yeah, that's the very But I feel like that's like mid Atlantic. That's like marill into my mind.

Oh yeah, yeah, I don't know so that. But everyone in my family, like my parents, that everyone's like California.

I recently realized I've been saying scars instead of scarce whoa, and no one has ever corrected me whoa, even though I obviously have heard other people say that way.

I think that's a great sign of who you are that people just go he knows what, Yeah, he knows. I'm surely I'm the wrong one here.

Yeah, maybe or maybe they're like, really fucking goes against scars Jesus.

I guess I've never heard you say that word. Yeah, what what was the moment they clicked?

My husband corrected me. Really, he said, if you want to stay in this marriage, better learn how to say now that.

Now that it's locked down, I can finally be honest. Yeah, you say this wrong.

I also do struggle with saying the word singer, yeah, singer that I think that's how I'm supposed to say it, But I get really kind of like, yeah.

Yeah, singer, singer. I love when people say singer. Yeah I sing Saying singer is so like you are like a mother of two, but you still think you've like got a shot at making it. Yeah, America's got talent, and you're like being interviewed and you're like, I've just always wanted to be a singer.

I feel like now you're saying it, I'm like, it's a bad word, Like it doesn't but it doesn't singer singer.

Be a Yeah, it's a bad word, as in it's a slur or it's a bad word.

Like depending on who's singing, who's.

Singing, If you yourself are a singer, you can say singer, but.

I think it's just a weird word.

But it's a bad word.

Oh yeah, singer, it's not right, No, it doesn't. There's no flow.

I'm thinking of. Okay, so like bringer, like I'm.

Anything with the g is that it's not got to flow or I guess you.

Know, it does work though, finger finger.

Kind of finger finger, because you would never say finger finger.

No, finger finger. Yeah, that actually that's so true.

It was one of those words that's like that is exactly what that is meant to be finger finger, which growth finger already kind of gross and witchy. And then of course the disgusting term fingering, like of.

Course that term it's got a ring to ring.

There's there's no way to be elegant while saying the term fingering it.

Because it's always juvenile. If you were getting fingered, you're like in my like everyone's getting fingers, getting fingered.

But you can't be like you know, Julie Andrews and be like, oh I.

Was fingered, but it's not for her.

It's not for her. She's British.

People have a different word for fingering. Oh, I'm sure they need one.

Yeah, they're like I was digitized. Oh, actually, I'm gonna start saying digitized and I was digitized.

Yeah, I think I think that jacking off is a horrible I agree.

Here's a question for you. Yeah, did you grow up with jacking off or jerking off?

I don't know, I don't know. I feel like I wasn't doing much of that growing up, and I'm and I wasn't part of the dialogue around.

You remove yourself from that conversation.

I feel like, though, like if I'm trying to remember being a teen, I feel like everyone was probably jerking off. I feel like jerking was more.

I'm like trying to like go back to childhood remember up with jacking.

But then I actually think after I came out, jerking became more among the guys. Next year. Oh but I think even even like it's like, you know, it's like the difference between dick and cock.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.

Cok has a more like sexy connotation, and I think jerk versus jack also has that. Yeah.

Yeah, jack and cock both just sound more aggressive.

Yeah, I've heard of jack and coke, but jack and cock and cock? Yeah we should Okay, okay, So what is your topic today? And you know what is roughly straight about it to you?

Okay, so so many crossed my mind, but I guess something that I feel like is a very straight concept is like YouTube celebrities and YouTube controversies. Yeah, so, I mean the main one being anything surrounding Breonna Chicken Fry, I E. Zach Bryan, I E. Barstool, I E. Dave Portnoy. I feel like that universe, in the kind of mainstream YouTube universe is pretty straight.

Yeah.

Yeah, I would have to agree. It's even when you first suggested this topic, I was like Brianna Chicken Fry Like, I was like, what does that mean? I've never heard of this? And then I had to go back and be like, wait, I did hear about this on the only straight podcast I listened to, And even still I didn't understand it. And they talk about it all the time, and I don't get it.

The thing with so, I'm the same way with a uneekly they talk about Brianna Chicken Fry a lot and the way I quite literally love those both of those girls to death, But I as soon as the name is mentioned, I ton it. I cannot physically pay.

Atten because I think the name in it of itself. Yes, chicken fry. It's not her real last name for anyone who doesn't know, it's a name that she gave herself. And even that is like, what's something that guys will get into, Like, my name's Brianna. I'm a girl, but if I say chicken fry, then guys might open their ears a little.

It's amazing, I'm a girl.

But it's also there is something so transcendent about it because to me, Brianna chicken Fry is quite literally like what a drag name would be if there were no gay people ever, Like it's like it is a it is a completely It's like if a bunch of straight men and straight women got together and they were like, let's think of a drag name. No gay people are allowed to weigh in, they will come up with, specifically Brianna, like that would be the first name, Brianna chicken Fry.

And it's balanced. You know, you need Brionna chicken fry so you can get you know, a Tricia paid us like a balance.

Well, what is the chicken fry controversies?

So, I don't know. I mean it goes deep. I mean, first of all, you're a stool. You know, your boss is Dave Portnoy. He's gonna kind of puppeteer the way he does. And so Brianna chicken Fry. The initial main controversy was she got into a relationship with this country boy, Zach Bryan, and Zach Bryan was in a relationship, so their relationship started off with this like what's the timeline did they get together before?

Yeah?

Is there any cheating whatever? So the relationship was already kind of doomed from the beginning, and then throughout the course of the relationship, Brian is like becoming a roadie for her man. She is going on tour, she is, you know, supportive at all the venues. It's never a good sign when she's like making TikTok videos being like you want to come to the show, like you're so sweet, it's like, don't be promoted, like you're not the promoter. Yeah.

Oh, and that was perceived as shade.

No, it was like it was like it was like she's trying to she's trying to like be the ex like something. Maybe maybe it's like it's like girlfriend, sorrya sent sorry, talk about the brown and chicken fry.

Of of her time. It's like how she is Kim Yeah. Yeah, I mean the difference, of course is that she's not really in control, but go on.

Yeah. So then the relationship comes to a screeching halt, and once again Zach Brian has maybe moved on during the relationship, but also it comes out that he is potentially kind of abusive a little bit, and not I don't think physically, but I think emotionally and all the other non physical thing ways that you can be abusive psychologically.

She was gaslighting.

Yeah, She's like, I brought Grace out to New York to do this podcast with me, and she's not thankful, and it's like, that's exactly what you were saying about Zach.

There's something so beautiful about the crowd sort of at the end of the day finding the truth. It's like, first they didn't like him, then they didn't like her. Then they had the swim where they were like, oh right, they both suck.

It's a nice narrative, it's.

An end, and in fact we support the woman, the supporting actress in the scenario, which is Grace O'Malley.

Yes, everyone is lifting her up.

Yes we are, and I want to join them in lifting up Grace O'Malley.

You know, George, nothing's ever over, and who knows what manipulative things has come out as having done.

As a wise woman doesn't mean it's really over and it's never okay. So I have many thoughts about this. To me, something that is very straight about almost like either YouTuber or creator drama is that I I think, in my experience the drama stems from very like almost conservative heteronormative values. It's always about like it's about cheating, it's about marriage, it's about like this very sort of antiquated idea of like properness, like was this a proper

Okay, scandal is like someone's tumbler from twenty years ago came out and they were like crazy.

Yeah, sure, sure, it's because Okay, of course the exception to all of this.

That we have is that someone stole someone's dancers.

Yes exactly, which that has nothing to do with Okay, So here's what it is. I actually think loyalty related things. I think on the one side you have faith, like being faithful, monogamy, gender dynamics probably, and on the other side you have non gendered loyalty. Non gender loyalty is gay, and then like marriage and cheating and stuff is straight. Yeah,

Yeah yeah, I think so.

But that sort of is like the exception that proves a rule. It's like, we had one big gay scandal and they actually crushed it so hard that we never need to have another one again. And since then, people like Briann and Chicken Fry have been trying to capture that magic well.

And I feel like maybe with like Tati and James, there's like so many layers to it, with Tati being an older woman, James being a young young man at the time, and then like James's own controversies, whereas I feel like with a Brionna Chicken Fry, everything's just very much like this in this like it's all very chronological. Yeah, and like yeah, I don't.

Know, there's something about it too that feels straight where it's about that's like a small town drama, like it's something yeah you like looking in on, like oh that that family actually they actually have trouble and they well they're getting divorced actually, and whisper whisper, And there's something where it's like, we don't have towns anymore, there's no community anymore, so we have to find our small town drama in the weird YouTube celebrity.

Our small villages are like YouTube communities that are like the beauty community, the barstool sports community, and then we all get to be bell in Beauty and the Beast, like prancing around with our book.

I wonder too if it's like because people like Brown and Chicken Fry, who are like very public facing, like influencer and not celebrities, we knows we're seeing so much of them and we are invited to be a part of their lives, and so we analyze it. We're analyzing it so much deeper because it's almost like a close friend or family member, whereas like someone like you know, Taylor Swift and Katy Perry's dancers, we don't know very much about them personally, so we're like, and that's the

Yeah, it's it's There are sort of like three types of dramas one can follow in this day and age. H One is traditional celebrity news it's like Taylor Swift whatever. One is reality show where it's like one step below, where yes they're not real celebrities, but they are on television. They're like fully in traditional media. And then the third is this what we're talking about here, which is like creator drama.

Yeah, you would think you would think creators all will be gay. I know.

That's what I'm struggling with.

It's like, but I think we underestimate how popular this stuff is in straight culture.

Yeah.

I think that's a big part of it, which is something that we are struggling with in general. Like, I genuinely like someone like Joe Rogan, who is like the biggest podcaster ever. Like I'm like, I don't know a single person who listens to him, and that is like bizarre.

Yeah, It's like how Stranger Things is the biggest television show ever and I don't know anyone who watches it, And I'm like, I really want to believe my own worldview, but it doesn't reflect what the world actually is. Yeah, I think that. I think gay people. I think gay people clip this regardless of who is numbers wise most popular.

Yeah, well, and I feel like I don't know if this has crossed over into any sort of gay TikTok culture, but like the rise of tradwives, it's like, I feel like straight culture is like lifting something up and then tearing it down because it's like all of us we are watching these tradwives being like, oh my god, I love she makes pies from scratch and has eggs and chickens and whatever. But then it's like, but she, but her husband is she she actually is doing this, and

Okay, she's just genius, because I think you're also okay. Another great difference between gay straight is like the gay weight to view something is as a performance and the straight way to view it is literal, so you are more likely to get invested in Brianna Chicken Fry's literal day to day life, whereas a gay person sees that and is like, oh, she's being sort of like cheeky and funny because she's like getting on a podcast and talking about her life in this like meta way or whatever.

Waiting that actually makes so much sense in terms of like when Lady Gaga was first like coming up and like, you know, my parents are just like straight people in general are like why is she wearing meat? Like like, oh, does she have a penis or whatever it is? She's satan Like she's bleeding out of her stomach at the VMA. So it's like, yeah, it's like everything is very well as.

Gay people are like, first of all, pause up.

Monstrous.

Yeah, Like it's like gay people are. When she's showing up wearing a meat dress made of literal meat, nob a person is like what kind of meat is that? And where did you get it?

There's something So I was, you know, listening to our dear friend Sophie Bottle on Mark Marin and she talked about tall poppy syndrome, which I had never heard of me neither. I love so tall poppy syndrome. She said, it's like a Canadian thing where like if you aren't you should they discourage you from being a tall poppy. They want you to be the same height as all the other poppies. So if you're a tall poppy, they'll

I mean, all of this relates back to like the concept of relatability. For example, like the the idea the appeal of a quote unquote girl next door is a very straight thing. It's like very straight to be like I'm turning on my TV and what I want is someone that looks like the girl next door to me, or is the caper is turning on the TV and is like, if she doesn't have literally five breasts and she's breastfeeding a guinea pig on each one, I'm turning this off, and I.

Wonder if this, like, I mean, maybe this goes, but okay, I'm putting on my smart hat or maybe my.

Stupid hat when you're getting dressed.

Yes, and I feel the same in both, But I think I wonder if because societally, it's safer as a gay, queer, whatever person to blend in, stay safe, don't break the mold, don't be a tall poppy, just fit in, level out. So then when you see someone like like Lady Gaga,

I see, yes, So it's not empowering. When you see someone in a meat dress, you're you're not empowered by it because you're like, yeah, I could do that any day.

Girl. Me just a little uncomfortable.

All It's like.

There's already enough judgments from society about just existing as a gay person, so when you see someone existing in this crazy loud big way like defiant. Yeah, it's it's better than a Brionn a Chicken Fry who's just wearing like, you know, dunem short shorts and going to country concerts.

Right because Brianna Chicken Fry could potentially bully you.

She is she could.

You never know where you stand with her, whereas someone in a meat dress. You're like, well, you're even weirder than I am.

Yeah, I'm like curious. I'm because the world is so vast. Of course, I'm like, there is there are gay people that are like I listened to Brianna Chicken Fry every single week, and I would love to know what those people are like.

See, but that's what I was Any topic I thought of bringing in, I'm like, okay, but definitely there's like a gay audience for this. But with brown and chicken Fry, I'm like.

Where No, I mean I think you literally count them on one hand.

Yeah yeah, I mean they're all going to write in now they.

Want I want this clip. I want you to comment read a book.

Oh my god, I would love a round table of gay barstool listeners, like gay guys specifically.

Well, so there is a podcast on barstool with two gay men as the host.

So that's why.

But but even still, because it's at barstool, Well, I'm like, they're just filling a quota. It doesn't feel like they genuinely wanted that at barstool. But they're like, oh, these are the most inoffensive gay men. I've done their podcast. They're great, But I'm like, do they feel welcomed in this environment? I'm glad that they have it, but do they like being there?

Yeah? Like when that was announced, was there like shit talking comments?

I wonder.

If I know anything stupid smart? How looks so similar?

Wow? What if we got acquired by barstool?

That would be so iconic?

That would be iconic. Okay, I'm trying to think of other Well.

I'm gonna I'm gonna rattle offs of like YouTube ish like not famous but famous straight things. Okay, So we have brown and chicken fry, obviously, we have Barstool as an umbrella. We have I to Alex.

Cooper of course, call your daddy.

Oh everyone's yelling at me.

I'm actually i have to say, I'm still shocked about your Nobody wants this ignorance. And now now God is telling me to.

Read a book.

That I'm like, you don't support female podcasts.

Oh yeah, what's your favorite Call Your Daddy episode?

The one with Kamala Woke Mind?

Virus Virus.

Also The Paul Brothers, Yes, Paul, Yeah, the streamer Sinnat.

Oh sure, The Paul Brothers is a big one. And actually I feel there was a moment so I watched the Jake Paul Mike Tyson fight. Yeah, And there was a moment when I was watching that where I was

Here, folks. Damn, that's a bummer.

You know what I mean. Like, and I almost think, actually I almost think that that fight was like the epitheosis of YouTuber drama. It's like we took it to the farthest level we could take it to. Was a Netflix streamed boxing match between Mike Tyson and Jake Paul. You know what I mean. It's almost like that's like the oscars of this world.

Yeah, speaking of oscars, I think Hawktuition have her own movie.

Talk. Well, she's actually not doing her podcast anymore because there was so much.

Big quin scincin. I love it, and it's not her fault. She's working with the goddamn Paul brothers. Talk to innocent, innocent, and you know what, I think she's just around the wrong people. I think she's got a good, big heart.

Well, I think she's got a great big heart.

You guys are insane.

She loves animals. She's from a small little town.

Actually this has been forced upon her, as if you know, you know, say say straight.

Pature got to her because she made a very funny, silly, little blow job joke and guys grow The Rise of Hawktua is a straight male event. Watching that as a woman, I'm like, oh ha ha, like funny guys are like, oh.

Yeah, cool, Yeah, this is what you're saying. Is another example of like performance versus like interpreting something as a performance versus interpreting it as literal reality. It's like Hawktua, if things were right in the world, we would all just be like, you go, girl, Like what a funny thing to say, and like, you know, okay, let's make some merch and let's get you you know, there's a hawk to a Halloween cost and bab blind and then

Yeah.

I knew it was over when both of my brother in law's had referenced it and I was like, this shouldn't have gotten to you. Yeah, I do. I also think that Street interviews, aside from Billy Eichner and like that guy Chris Clement. I think in general, just people being like gay sun her thought daughter, that's very strict.

No, it's so I'm actually frustrated with it because like Billy Eikner did it so well and it was like comedic and good, and then like now it's like literally everyone is doing it and no one is trying to do anything comedic with it at all. They're just like I just want to be on a camera holding a little bit.

Because Billy is the funny person in the Man on the Street, whereas these people like the Hawk Toua, she was the funny person, not the guy. I said, no one knows the person who put the microphone in her face, because there there's no brain behind that. It's the people talking. Everyone's just relying on other people for their content.

But did you guys see the clip where she was like talking to people.

I gotta go, I love that so much, so funny, and then they didn't hear from her for weeks.

That's what you got to say in the comments when people like read a book like.

In the morning, Okay, so funny.

Maybe it's like this interview thing. It's almost like on one end of the spectrum we have girls gone wild literally predatory men asking drunk women to take their clothes off, and then on the other side of it, we have like Jimmy what's his name, Oh my god, Martin Schwartz k oh yeah, yeah, Jimmy Click, which is like he's he's the butt of the joke and you got it,

Yeah, I fully agree. I think we've solved it pretty much.

Interesting. Any final thoughts on YouTuber dramas and or sorry? Is it no?

No, We're good, Okay. I guess like I'm just like the problem that I'm struggling with is that it won't It's only going to get bigger. No, I know, I know, this like type of culture is so deeply popular among people I've never met in my life and will keep getting more and more popular, and I'm like bummed out by it.

Actually, I think what needs to happen the shift is that gay people need to make more boring content. With the way that straight people have dominated the boring content.

Market so much thought into overwriting.

Yeah, don't need much thought. Turn it down.

I want to say, all, I think a lot of people are already heeding her advice. That's not what I'm seeing on some of my suggested content out there.

Or have just like like have more boring drama that people can get upset over, like relationship drama. Mess it like mess see stuff.

When when gay people eradicated the concept of cheating, that's when things got That's.

When things got difficult.

Because that's such an easy generator of drama. And it's like, first of all, gonna happen no matter what. So it's like if we just kept that as like the big dramatic event, God, we'd be fine.

Because Jeffrey Star, I feel like, does a good job of being controversial in mainstream right.

But that's because Jeffrey he literally will like murder.

You know.

Well he also is like like like I feel like the vibe with him is like he could murder at any moment.

Successful there's also always a threat with him that he'll like release the names of like the people.

That's how people will keep watching. We need more threats in our content, like some sort of mystery that we're trying to crack.

I mean, you know what the equivalent of cheating is with gay creators is like closetedness. It's like it's like so and so like this big male celebrity, like.

Is true true? Who?

I have to say, like I get such a pit nic stomach when I think of these like creator dramas just because it really is, like not to sound like elitist or something, but it really does feel like the death knell of all culture. Like it really is like you're just sort of like how much lower can it get? Like literally, how much lower can entertainment get than Brianna Chicken fry Well and even I guess it could be like literally how much like what else? How can you like take away any more?

Like production? Yeah, Like like we used to like read stories, we used to watch plays, and then it was like okay, now we're watching TV. Okay, now we're watching reality TV. Okay, now we're watching It's like how.

Like we're literally just gonna start staring at people on the street and like yelling at exactly. Everyone is just gonna have like a police camera on their chest and then you're gonna be like looll keep passed by that woman and her hair sucks, and.

Then it'll be like, actually when in her hair sucks, that was radical.

And then there's gonna be merched that's like my hair sucks too. And then she's gonna have a podcast, and then she's gonna have her own cryptocurrency and then a signature catchphrase, and then she's gonna be president, and that's gonna be our first woman president.

I would love that Majo for president, do you guys? Okay, she has been a YouTuber for a very long time. She spam Yeah, yeah, okay, okay, we don't have that.

I do want to bring this up because something that we just like fully haven't mentioned is a big part of this is also quote unquote scammer scandals like TanaCon is a great example of this. It's like she charged her fans this much money, then they showed up and the convention was a scam or like Carolina is a classic,

Yeah?

Like it's like like presenting a different version hypocrisy.

Yeah totally because I okay, So hypocrisy and cheating, which I guess are the same things like morals. Morals, Yeah, morals, hypocrisy and cheating are straight, and loyalty and scamming are queer when it comes to scandals. Yeah, yeah, yeah, all right, I'm glad we got there.

Wow, we'll should we do our final segment? Okay. Our final segment is called shout Outs, And in the segment we pay homage. Is the Grand Street tradition of the radio shout out. Shout out to anything that we are enjoying, people, places, things, ideas, whatever you want in the whole wide world, and we think of it on the spot, and we'll go first.

And I'm trying to do you have one?

Yeah? Okay, I do. Okay, what's up, freaks and perverts around the globe. I want to give a huge shout out to cloudy days in Los Angeles. As we all know, I have had my issues with the city. But when, except when we take those issues away, then I have no issues with it. But when I'm loving it, the most recently is on those cloudy days, And I say Finally I can be moody. I when I was living in New York, of course, anytime it was cloudy, I was on I needed a check in. I was on

What's up? Breaks the losers? I want to give a shout out to the book Amusing Ourselves to Death by Neil Postman Publishing. I want to say nineteen eighty four. Now, yeah, this very scary year, and it's only gotten scarier since then, folks. So this is a book that has been recommended to me many times, and it's about how television is bad.

Sometimes those types of books bump me out because they're so because nothing has changed and actually worse. Yeah, And I'm also like it's fun to be like, how quaint and then you're like, oh, but he was right.

No, he was fully right. It's it's funny to think back to there's always some moral panic, and you like want to reassure yourself by being like, well, there's always been moral panics. There was one about television, there was one about phones, and then it's like right, and they were all right and things kept getting worse, So what now?

So what now?

Well, Ali, whenever you're.

Ready, do I look into cam.

Oh you can?

Can you feel comfortable looking?

Okay? Hi? I want to make a shout out to one of the craziest products I've ever took a chance on, and I'm so glad I did. I if I were an influencer, this is the only thing I would try and influence people on, and that is the two in one hair care product from Trader Joe's five dollars. It's a shampoo and conditioner, it's hydrating, it's the best product ever. You can buy it anywhere any Trader Joe's five dollars.

Whoa woah.

I think it's really powerful and about time we stopped the stigma.

Yeah, they're not all the same, not all the same, and I'm not using it to white my butt in the shower. It's for my head. Sure it works on my head.

That is shocking to me, because I really, do you think she's using it to white he butt. No, I'm I'm just because I've literally I'm on record as saying you have beautiful hair. The fact that it is because of Trader Joe's two in one is really rocking my world to night.

You know you, I would go try and get all these fancy products, being like this is going to change my life. It's a tiny bottle for sixty dollars. It runs out so fast. I'm using the entire bottle just in one shower, because why not. It's five dollars.

I love this.

I love it. I want everyone to try it.

I want to see the guys, girl of you to be like, yeah, I just used Trader. It's good.

It's good.

This is girls, girl, because the girls judge. I don't need to convince a guy to get it to it. It's the girls who I have to convince. I I beg them. I don't just try it.

Wow wow, no one does.

No one tries it and it kills me. I'm devastating.

Somebody's gonna try it, I hope.

So just it's five dollars. If you hate it, throw it away.

God Trader Joe's, you know it still hits after all these years. Shout out to the Tamalis.

I'm like, I don't know what to do in there.

No, that's fair.

I've been in a strangers one time in my whole life.

Really, yeah, no.

Once you got to get used to it, you gotta.

Get to know what it does well and what it doesn't do well. Don't buy produce.

Don't buy produce. But they're frozen to get the soup dumplings. Oh my god, the soup dumplings, rosen.

Stuff anything sort of in the realm of like protein bars and powder.

Like, and they always have a fun bread. I don't know how they make them. I don't know what they're doing, but they're making them.

They're backstage, they're making the bread fresh morning bagel chabata, like a oh everything bagel Trader Joe's. It's like they are snorting lines of everything.

Yeah.

Well, Ali, this has been a real delight. Thanks so much for doing the podcast, for having me.

And please tell people we're trying to actually let people promote themselves. Please tell people what you are up to where they can find you where they can see you, et cetera.

You can go to Ali mukofsky dot com. I have some tour dates coming up. You can see me do a comedy on the road, maybe in a city near you. You can go to my YouTube to check out Ali's interview show. You can get in on the ground floor of this. You can get it on the ground floor. I only have two episodes out at this moment. I'm starting to record more episodes. One of my guests is Sam Vincente and then my other guests just to balance very straight Dylan Francis. So there's one episode for everyone

Yeah, cool, great, and you've got to introduce us to Saint Vincent I would love to.

Okay, bye podcast and now want more.

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Stradio Lab is a production by Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network and iHeart Podcasts.

Created and hosted by George Severis and Sam Taggart.

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Co produced by by Wang, edited.

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