Podcast starts now. Welcome all to Stradia Lab. We are back bi coastally on Zoom. Just me and George today, George, how the hell are you hi?
You know, it's funny, we're so used to doing this for Patreon. You know, the default Patreon recording is, you know, maybe a little bit raspy voice on a Sunday afternoon. Maybe one of us has a coffee, one of us has a smoothie or some other type of specialty beverage. There's no pressure to be firing on all cylinders comedically, but when you know it through that comes the best
possible comedy because we can finally relax and be ourselves. Yeah, and sometimes I forget that most people statistically that listen to this podcast only get the non patren episodes, And it's kind of like, you know, we live this life as kind of Zoom domestic partners. We have conversations, we have debates, we cook dinner, we have breakfast, and then people only get to see the side of us that comes out when we have a guest.
Yeah. Yeah, they see us when we've you know, spent all day cleaning the house, when we're when we're wearing our best shirts, when we say let's let's turn on the face, but now we're sort of letting you in. It's sort of this this type of episode which just two of us. It's like being on vacation with someone and you then wake up the next day and you're like, so we're still hanging out.
Well, it's that, but it's also being like, God, are so comfortable with each other that we can just stay in the silence.
Oh, absolutely, Like one of us is.
Doing the crossword and one of us is reading the latest issue.
Of Harper's Bus speaking of I want to talk to you about your big party last night.
Ooh, well, I have to say you know, I went to a big party last night. It was uh egg how Slata, Tinder and the ACLU were the three co hosts of this big fashion week party. And wouldn't you know what, the MC was our very own Cat Cohen.
When you were posting pictures from there, I was like, God, I missed New York. Oh and it was in the Russian tea room. Have ever been? I've never even been. I had neither.
And I actually found myself unintentionally lying and talking to someone and being like, I haven't been here in so long and then they were like, I actually never been here, and I was like, yeah, me neither.
You know I this is this is something that we both have in common. Actually, if people assume I've been somewhere, I will let them assume it. I would never correct someone to be like like I, yeah, I'll even go so far say I fully lied. You know what I lie about what I actually the last time I was in New York called the fuck out? Is I lie about having been to basement? Oh? Yeah, I have, like the basement. I actually don't even remember. At this point.
I'm always like, yeah, I've been to basement. And then somebody point blank looked at me and was like wait. It was like someone I hadn't met before, and it was sort of like getting to know yu convo. Yeah, but like he it was there. It was like him and then like a close friend, and he was like, wait,
have you been to basement before? And I was like no, And then it was like it was Julio, and Julio's like jaw dropped, and I was like, see, this is why I don't tell anyone but I haven't been to basement because I don't need to go to basement to have been to basement totally.
Well, this is like me having a terrible sense of direction but insisting on nodding vigorously when someone is like, you know that spot on Carmine where it's next to that one bodega, and I'm like, of course, oh god, I used to always go there in two thousand and seven. I I can't bring myself because I have such a bad sense of direction. I don't know which things are, which things I should know, and which things are special?
Do you know what I mean? I fully understand.
It's sort of like it's not embarrassing to not know a very specific niche intersection, but it is embarrassing to not know where Times Square is. But I don't know if we're closer to Times Square or closer to random intersection on Carmine when I'm talking to someone, so I just pretend that I know.
Everything well, and it's like, is there gonna be a quiz on this? Because so many times totally you can just get through it and be like I made them feel like they were heard, and that's kind of all they wanted in that moment. Yeah, And then sometimes they are like but have you been there? Or like but once across the street and I'm like, oh, sorry, I'm kidding. I don't know what you're.
Talking about, right, See, they want to have a conversation, whereas you're trying to just get a gold star to.
Go through, to get through the day.
Like you're just trying, You're just trying to prove to someone I'm also human. You're Amy Adams holding up the human sign in arrival. Meanwhile they're trying to actually have an interaction.
Yeah, it's simply not right. It's not right at all.
By the way, I just want to say for everyone listening and being like, God, they're being so loose and sexy, and I wish I could hear more of this. You know, we do this twice a month over on the over on the Patreon, Patreon, dot com, slash stradio app, and it is we are churning them out all.
Yeah, so you had fun at this party. Yes, I had such a good time at the party. I really did.
Actually, I was very you know, with events, of course, you never know which way it's gonna go.
Yeah, it's really hit or miss.
It could go. You could be the outsider who doesn't fit in. You could also on the other side, of things be like among the same people you see all the time, and that's also boring, and you're almost like, I wish an outsider would come in, someone like Ryan and the Oc, let's say, and really shake things up in this town, because I am sick of making the same small talk over and over again. And this was a real happy medium. You know, there were some people
I knew, some people they didn't know. It was very nice to see Kat like working the room. They played, Oh the DJ, you know, I'm at actually gonna look into who this DJ was so I can give them
a proper shout out on a later app. We're talking like the perfect balance of you know, there would be a B side from a Madonna's American Life album, so they actually specifically played Nobody Knows Me, Wow, Nobody Knows Me, and then there would be like, you know, let's say, like a shot yeah, sort of like a semi ironic shod Day remix or something. But then it would go right into Abrica.
Dabra m Heaven Have Been.
And Martini's were flowing. Finger food was the perfect the perfect level of finger food because they can obviously be too little, but it can also be too much. And suddenly you're having whole slices of pizza. Yeah, but it
was just the right amount of past apps. And then at the end there was a full hour of just pigs and blankets, and you you kept sort of thinking, oh, like, this is the last one I have to pounce while they're still going, and then it would be like forty five minutes later, pigs and blankets.
Wow. Yeah, And doesn't Kat famously love pigs and blankets? I actually do think that's true. Wow. I wonder if it was because of Kat. Maybe it was because of Cat.
She kept she kept like making really funny references to the idea that Egouslata, Tinder, and the ACLU were natural partners, because obviously it's so random that it's those three companies.
So she kept just being like, name a more iconic trio. I'll wait, I'll wait, I'll wait here all day. Name a more iconic trio. That is so funny. Wow. The more distance I have New York, the more that I'm just like it's literally Sex and the City. Like I'm like, God, this is like a Sex in the City episode, I know, and it's weird to see it from a zoom out lens.
Well, especially Russian Tirium. You know, have you ever been to Tao And don't lie. I've never been to tow So I went to town for the first time this year was just such a I thought it was literally like a fictional sex in the city location. Yeah, but I got to tell you, you know, obviously there's some it's glam in its own way, but it does feel like you're chasing something that is no longer there.
Yeah, it's like working in Hollywood.
That's right, Well, yes, that's like, yeah, it's like working in any industry that isn't I guess like doge.
Yeah, or yeah, Amazon funded.
Or Amazon funded. So what are we doing today? Tell the listeners.
So pretty much today we're gonna it's very loose. We're going to go through some calls and we're going to chat and that's essentially it. I would you know. I think what's amazing about going through calls is that I'm not even we don't even say things like we're going to be giving advice because well, quite frankly, we're not what I love about, you know, as we continue to
deconstruct everything around us. This is a call in show that's like we will hear your play your call and then go okay, and then we'll sort of talk about it totally. It's conversation. It's a prompt.
We're having a conversation, and then when we feel like it, we press the button that's like, here's a new prompt exactly, and whether or not we follow it and to what extent is kind of none of your business because this is a free episode.
And you're not paying for it. This is that supported Malma. I'm actually tired for no good reason. I mean, I did nothing last night. But Gizmo the dog, you know, normally a very healthy and strong constitution. I'll tell you what. He was diarrhea ing like crazy last night. Oh my god. And in a way that was kind of I was like, is everything okay? So I kept having to get up and like clean things. Actually it was like a nightmare.
But I think he seems better today. But it was really like I was like, is this what it's like to have a child? Kind of, I was like, damn, I'm not built for it.
We you know, our niece lives like a ten minute walk from us, so it's very nice because we get to see her whenever we want and I'm actually gonna go see her after this. And you know, I've always been pretty ambivalent about having kids, and I sort of thought having a niece would move me definitively in one direction, and it almost has done the opposite, where I'm kind of like even less decisive about it that because I'm like, oh, so, now I just have like an on call child, Like
I can go whenever I want in microdose being a parent. Yeah, and I don't have to do any of the like difficult things I never like when I miss her, I can just see her.
Yeah, why would I have my own? No?
But then also if I'm driven to see her, does that mean I want to be a parent. It's unclear.
It's unclear. The whole thing confuses me quite a bit. I know, well, here's the thing. Sorry, Will, I will play the first call.
But I have a theory that like, there's something about having a child in your twenties that is sort of a classic for a reason, because you're just dumb enough to not or just an experienced enough to not consider
the difficulties of it. And I actually think because there's part of me that's like, oh my god, what am I going to be fifty still considering whether I want kids, and it's like, yeah, because the older you get, the more stuff you know, and the more there is to sacrifice if you change your life radically from one day to the other. It's it's actually not that I'm you know, immature, or like night you know, or or like I need
to grow up that I'm still undecided. It's like, yeah, it makes more sense to be undecided in your thirties than it does when you're twenty three.
I fully fully agree. Sometimes I think about that with like getting married too. When people like get married at twenty five, I was like, that's so young, and I'm like, wait, maybe they were right, Like there was something like it's like more like yes, obviously there's more risk of like getting divorced later. But still it's like, but you were like living out loud, you were like not dumb enough to really consider everything else, and you know what else.
That's what I feel about career stuff too, because like, for example, in most of Europe, and I believe honestly in most places outside of Marria, you like apply and
get into a field. It's like you apply to college and you get into the psychology program, you get into you know, the law program whatever, and then you're like, well, we got to do it live, whereas here it's like you spend four years just reading books, then you have to have a fifteen year long unpaid internship, and then suddenly at thirty five you're like, oh, is my heart really in it? And it's like, well, by this point, someone in Sweden has four children and is running for offits.
Yeah, yeah, it's it's tough. It's tough. Being in this age is funny. I'm like, I can't tell if it's this age or if it's la but hobbies are back. So I tell you that, really I think hobbies are back in a big way. Well hobbies.
I do think you are obviously right that like childless people in their thirties go back to hobbies, and that just.
Is a fact. That just is a fact. And what kind of hobbies are we talking? Oh, you know, I think woodworking. M I think like, okay, I took. I mean this is like a it's not a real one, but I went to the have you ever been to the gay guy dance class? You're gonna have to be more specific, the one that Alec Cohen does. Oh no, no, I haven't at gay choreographer on Instagram. Oh, I know him well. He he did an LA one yesterday and I went to it and it was extremely fun. Highly
recommend if anyone is interested in it. A dance class pop music, pop pop music. We learned to dance to green Light by Lord Oh and it was so much fun. And but I was like I also couldn't stop zooming out and be like, this is like Charlotte going to like take a salsa class and like hoping to like switch it up and be like I've still got it, don't I I've still got it.
Oh, it's so hard to how like, uh, these things are coded as somehow embarrassing. It's like, oh, you want to like develop a scale, you want to like have fun, you want to meet people loser. We need to get away from that mindset.
It's also funny to be there and be like, there's all these gay guys that I either I don't know or have like vaguely been at the same events as because and like we just all say hello as if we know each other, like hugging and being like hi, Hi, it's like we do not know each other.
Oh, also have to say gig guy, helloes have gotten to a I would say avant garde point at this at this point, like you genuinely don't know if someone is going to like do a little jig when they see you or fully make out with tongue, and I have no idea what I'm even going for. And by the way, you know what, it's the most lame possible thing you can do. Go in for a hug. That's
the one thing no one does anymore. If you're going in for a hug, you might as well be saying, no, homo, I don't care what you do behind closed doors, dude, but like it's not for me.
Yeah, you at least have to gomah as you do it. Yes, you have to go maa also.
Or it's like it's like two gay guys in a row will kiss me on the lips, so then I'll be like, okay, so.
This is a lip party. So then I'll go for it with the third.
One, and he'll like like not be ready for it, and I'm like, no, it's not my fault. Like I thought we were doing lips tonight.
The president was set. I'm just following president, that is true. I love the gig guy.
Hello, you know, it's funny, we've just created a version because already straight I hello famously confusing because you don't know what sort of like handshake they're going to go in for. And so now we've created that. But the more gay version, which is what level of makeout are you doing with your random online friend you've met once before? Speaking of gay versus straight? Howbout we take a first call.
Let's do it.
Hi, George, Hi Sam, a big fan. My name is Zach. So I came out really late. I came out at like the age of twenty seven, and I was like four years ago.
And I have a wonderful boyfriend who is like my seeing eye dog for like gay world. But I still kind of feel like a kid who is homeschooled this whole life who suddenly is.
Like at his first day of public high school.
So I guess my question is, like, how do I act more gay for lack of a better term with while still like being myself?
And like how do I know, like what parts of myself.
Are truly me versus what I like conditioned myself to act, like think, like be interested.
In from being in the closet for so long.
Thanks Bite, an even a voice like that, I don't think you need any more help being more gay, you bitch.
I actually you know, I was going to say he has a hot voice to me, am I wrong.
Well it can be hot and still be gay sounding.
Wow, look at me doing internalized homophobia. You're like, your voice sounds a gay like No, actually it was pretty I just want to say, I think it's the perfect level of gay. I think it is in conversation with some of the great gay guys we know.
And I think it's a great gay voice.
I don't think it's especially by the way, it's no problem if it's If it was super Queenie, that would also be completely fine. But I think in the range of like super Queenie on one end and kind of like surprisingly husky, like a Jared Goldstein, let's say where you're like, oh, I didn't know what we were doing with a mask for mask mama tonight. I think it is a perfect down the middle, and I think it is a perfectly lovely voice.
I think it's a perfectly lovely voice. And I'm sorry I said it sounded gay, but I also not I celebrated it sounding gay, and and I think it's a I say it because it's it's always a funny question. Someone's like, how do I be more gay? And it's like, totally look inward, bitch, you best start believe it in being gay. You already are.
I distinctly remember having this issue, you know, go into your first gay bar, gay club, whatever, and thinking the issue is that you're not gay enough, when actually the issue is that you're like do gay.
I wish there were some examples. I think, like, I know, I know what he means, of course.
And by the way, I have that feeling every time I'm in a new community of any.
Kind of course, you have that feeling. Yeah, yeah, Like I've always joked that I wish I had been closeted a little bit longer so I could have a favorite football team, because I think, as a gay guy now, it is so funny to be like, yes, i'm, i'm, i'm, my paws are up, but when the game's on, don't talk to me. I think that would be fun, but unfortunately it didn't happen for you.
You know, to that point, I just want to say so many gay guys are sorry to use the word performative this way, but performatively liking straight things these days, and I think it's not cute anymore. Like stop it, because actually, at this point it's not ironic. You are just feeding into, feeding into what Trump wants. It's enough enough of a gay guy being like, actually, what I really love is beer and football with the boys. Some have some have some self respect and listen to tanache.
Is that too much to ask? We're not asking you to stop liking It's also just like that's just like, don't take pride in it. It's like, don't doesn't make kids like.
It's just as kind of basic and normal as if a straight guy liked it.
It doesn't make you special. No.
And I'm also especially angry about this today because I so, Matthew and I have a reservation for four at this restaurant. It's Super Bowl Sunday, okay, woo hoo, And so I'm asking around, I'm saying, which gay guys can go with us? Every single one has Super Bowl plans. Really, I'm like, wait the fuck up and come and come to this very desirable in new restaurant by the way, where it's difficult to get her as.
I mean, I've even this year is like In the past, I've ironically been like, let's like make Mischa likes to make chicken wings, and it's like, okay, let's just like have super Bowl food and have people over and like pretend. Yeah, but this year I was like, actually, I fucking hate the Super Bowl. I'm sure I want to watch the performance, but that's it. And then like, so I'm not going to waste my Sunday doing something ironically that I don't care about at all, totally, and we can make super
Bowl food for the fucking Oscars. Yeah.
So I will say, in terms of this question, you actually are in a great place right now if what you're searching for is more queer community, because it's cool for gay guys to act straight now, so you have so much more practice in this so you can really like teach people how to enjoy straight things.
That's true.
But my favorite part of this question is definitely the question of how to disentangle what is actually your authentic personality from what you were socially conditioned to like as a closeted person pretending to be straight. And I think both of us have things like that that were like that are like straight leaning interests from our time in the closet, would you like to speak to yours?
Yeah? Mine is indie rock music exactly. Mine is that when I get drunk, I'll say, let's put on silver juice. Yeah, and it's like come on, And it is like there's something about it where I am even still torn where I look like or like do I like this or was this just like because I was in this friend group in college that like this was the currency and this is all my memories of that. But it's like there's not really a difference. I think, like I kind
of think there's no way to disentangle those things. Yeah, I also think.
It's still you, like, if anything, your connection to those things could be more complex because it is because you have a more a more multifaceted relationship to it than just someone who's like that rocks.
And I do think there's something I understand this color too. Sometimes I get jealous of a of a guy who is like just was gay from the from the jump, like knows all the like Britney spears b sides for some reason that no one else listens to, and it's like like you're they really feel like they're in it. They're in the gay culture in a way where you're like,
that's so different than my relationship with it. And it's not that I don't like Britney Spears, I just only know the hits and so it's but I also think it's all uh, everyone has varying levels of involvement in the gay culture. George, think what what's your straight thing? Oh?
I will tell you in a second. But do you think a previous generation of gay men is like listening to this and rolling in their graves? That are examples of gay culture? Are Britney Spears b sides rather than like the opera and like like.
Going to the Philharmonic? Yeah, maybe whatever, whatever, guess what whatever? Oh, they're gonna be fucking dead soon.
Yeah, and then we'll be and will be condescending to kids that are for whom the like foundational gay text are the TikTok of that one girl being like it's about food, it's about omega threes and fatty proteins. And then we're like, how about you listen to Email My Heart by Britney Spears.
Bitch, Yeah, no, a real song.
So mine the only thing I can think of, honestly, I mean, I will say I went through like a soccer phase.
But I think that was.
More so because I like the pageantry of things like the Olympi, things like the euro Cup. I like to see countries that normally don't get their due, countries like you know Argentina, let's say, or or Brazil, you know, countries that are not global superpowers, be like number one at something.
So I did.
I would say, like in the early odds, I would like regularly watch the World Cup or the EuroCup, and I will I will say it that when I came to America, I did get off on knowing something that like having a sense of history about something that other Americans did not and being able to like switch that gear and be like, oh, did you know George knows
about soccer? So that was one and then the other one I think was just I think I liked a lot more like classic stand up, like George Carlin classic stand up.
You were much more balt from the jump, That's true.
Like I'd be like into watching George Carlin's HBO specials, or like looking up like Richard Pryor or things like that. Of course, really took me right to Joan Rivers very fast. So I don't want to overstate how much I stayed in that zone.
Well you know, if people knew how much I used to stand Louis c K, there'd be some issues. Oh yeah, I mean, one of the best to ever do it.
But I just want to say, you know, I think, like, sorry if this is a cop out, but I do just think, literally, you have to just let go. Like you have this amazing boyfriend. It seems like you do have queer community, you have other queer friends. Just because they know another song or film more play than you do, doesn't mean you have to have any insecurity about it. And guess what, you are a You're gonna be a
lifelong learner. We're all still learning things. I every single time some random gay, gay icon celebrity dies that have never heard of, I feel so dumb. But then guess what, you just look them up and then I'm ready to go the next day and I'm posting I can't believe she was taken from us so soon at.
Ninety eight years young, ninety you'res young, rest and power, Rest and power. But yeah, I fully agree. I think, Yeah, it's a lifelong it's a lifelong journey. It's a lifelong journey.
And I actually just think, like, how exciting that you're four years into being out and you have this great boyfriend that you like and you know you're listening to Stradio Lab. I mean that is more than so many people can say for themselves. I know you're doing the work and you have a beautiful, sexy voice, and I stand by.
That that sounds LGBTQ plus that's right positive.
All right, next call, Okay, I will say this person A called on Christmas Eve B had the same He has the same area code that I did when I lived in New Jersey. So shout out from one Jersey girl to another. Mama, thanks for calling in.
Hi George and Sam.
This is like kind of creepy and weird, and I was like, I don't know if I should send this message, but here I am.
I was out to dinner and lo and behold.
I sat next to the one and only Sam Tiger because it was one of those restaurants that was really really you know, close quartersy in Brooklyn, and I knew you were there, and I didn't want to be weird and say I love the podcast that I wanted to call and say I love the podcast. And also is it weird to say.
Hey, I liked the podcast and I laughed weekly too, or was I correct and not saying anything.
I can't decide truly if it's straight or.
Gay to choose one way or the other.
So I'd appreciate your input.
By Sam, Do you have any recollection of what this could have been? It was in New York, so it was when you were visiting New York.
I think it was at Ops Pizza pizza place. Yeah, if I had to guess.
Did you notice someone sort of shaking and looking and sneaking looks at you and and you know, sweating and sort of tearing up and trying to make this decision?
No, I didn't notice. And in fact, you know, whenever I'm at Ops or a similar bush Lack based arresta rand, I sort of look around with an expectation of so does anyone know who I am? Or or have I completely lost touch with everyone? And yeah, go ahead, go ahead, Like there are days if I'm at like say the x Lee, and no one comes up to me and says, I like the podcast, I go, I guess I'm dead.
I guess no one. I guess no one cares about me and I am dead so to this caller always at this stage in our lives come up and say hello, I we are simply not famous enough to have that be an issue. And it is still at a point where it is so so so tasteful, and.
I want to echo that and say it genuinely. Is it genuinely?
Is positive? Every time?
I feel like it's very rare that you know, it's someone that's like weird and I'm like, oh God, now
I have to deal with this person. It's actually very nice to see that the people who listen are cool, and I'm like, damn, you're like, are rocking that little outfit and you're out and about and you are you are going to go into that vintage store and you are going to come out with, you know, a pair of Levi's five O fives that actually figure perfectly because you know, you're one of those people that know how to shop vintage denim and can say is this from eighty seven or ninety one?
Couldn't be me? But I respect you, and you know specifically come to us. If we're with friends family, I find that they will respect us more afterwards, and it sort of proves our egos after that.
Yeah, and you know, we have so many experiences not to get vulnerable that actually bring us down a notch on a day to day basis, just by virtue of you know, the people were surrounded by so we it always is welcome to you just get a little pang of recognition. I'll tell you an example of something I'm talking about at the very party I was just talking about last night. I see someone I know coming out of this out of this venue, and I think she's
waving at me. I do a little wave Bee lines right past.
Me to Ella m Hoff. Oh. So that's what we're dealing with on a daily basis, folks. Folks, that is really funny. So yeah, if you see me at ops, you better fucking say hello. You gotta come up and say fucking him. Yeah yeah, okay, wait, let's do should we do the next one? Yeah? Okay, hiy, Sam and George.
I just listen to your ins and outs for twenty twenty five episode. And I completely agree with what you said about tomorrow based cocktails. I one day wanted a Chinar Sprits Ginar tomorrow, but I didn't have any prosecco or campaign, so I just used some lemon Tello Lacroix, and it was spectacular. It is great if you don't want to have anything particularly strong. It's essentially just watered
down tomorrow. We cannot recommend it enough. I also think Chinar is a particularly gay tomorrow, and I would be interested to hear the two of you rank various tomorrows by gayness too straightness.
That's all.
So I have a huge surprise about this call.
Okay, that I texted our dear friend Alison Roman, and I said, you know, Alison, I know you just gave birth two months ago and are in fact the mother of an infant, but you have to drop everything, including your child, to answer this.
Question from our dear caller.
And so I asked her to sort of kind of off the top of her head, tell me which Amari she thinks are gay and which one she straight, and so well, I can post her texts. We can post her texts on Instagram. But some highlights. She says Montenegro is straight. She says Facia Bruto is bisexual but gay, which is actually very wise and I completely agree with. She sent me a link for Amaro Nonino.
Have you ever had that look up? The bottle.
She basically she was like, this one's gay, and I completely agree. It is so stunning, and I it's to have that in your in your home bar. I mean, you are hosting You're not even hosting an OSCARS party because that's too conventional. You're hosting a Critics Choice Awards viewing party. And then I asked her, you know, to me, three of the main kind of like basic ones that
you see everywhere are Jennar, Averna, and Fernette. And I was like, all right, let's rank those gata straight and she said, from gata straight Chenar, Averona Fernett, which goes along with what this caller is saying that.
Chennar sort of gay.
I do think of Aaron is kind of down the middle, and Fournett is to me very like straight bartender after his shift, you know, with with the boys.
Yeah, it's very like forty five year old like former punk band who now like owns the bar totally.
And it's also like adjacent to Williamsburg two thousand and eight era unicyclen up.
Yeah, that's really funny. Do you have any thoughts on Amari?
No?
I agree, I think Shanar, I think you know the way that it is difficult to pronounce. You know, many many people have their own way of saying it. That's obviously one of the gayest elements. First, it's the love of Amari exactly. I went through a big Shannar phase because I was I had convinced myself that this was like five years ago when I hadn't figured out what was going on inside of my body, where I was like certain alcohols really upset my stomach, and then that one,
I was like, this one is? This one works? So I was having like that with tequila and was that good. It was so good, it was sort of like a it was almost like a tequila Manhattan or something. I know. I find that they really add a.
Sophistic like an elevated fountain drink element to whatever cocktail you're having, which is sometimes exactly what I want.
Yeah, basically h And I want to give.
A shout out to you know, I've been I'm sticking with our prediction that Amara based cocktails are in for twenty twenty five, and I've been ordering them left and right at restaurants.
Really.
I recently had a very good one at Eel Bar in New York, so if you're in if you're in Manhattan, check it out huge.
Okay, oh okay, this is a good one.
Hi, Samon George. This is Zach calling from our nation's.
Capital, Washington, DC.
My question is where are the gayest and straightest places.
On your body to get a tattoo?
You?
I want to say the second Zach, we've had this round and also usually are we have a pretty balanced gender. We have a pretty like good gender balance and calls. But this time specifically, it's a lot of gay guys.
I mean they took three eight five, three eight five. Is that our number? Three eight five gay guys? They took three eight five gay guys? Quite literally? Yeah, it's like that doesn't mean you can only call if you're a gay guy. Anyone can call you guys. So the gayest parts or straightest parts to get a tattoo on your body? This is complex because okay, here's one that
I think goes in the gay category. Yeah, I think upper thigh one because I see a lot of gay guys do this and then where their little short shorts that you can see the tattoos still, Yeah, and I find that to be fun. I actually like that placement I'm like the lower back tattoo, I want to know where you think it stands these days.
Okay, so my first thought just off the top of my head about this question is the more conventional placements are the more straight, and the less conventional ones are the more game. So straight is like it is are like upper arm where someone would have like a big cross like that is straight. Lower back tattoo, classic sort of woman on spring break. You know she's having the time of her life and she's getting a frozen mark
like that is straight. I think chest, like a lion on your chest, is straight, like like I chest, upper arm, lower back. You know, it's very straight to me. Ankle like ankle is to me kind of like a mom from Colorado that is one Facebook post away from being anti vacs, but she loves the outdoors and she sort of you know, she'll like call her husband a pussy.
Wrist to me is also very straight in that same category, wrist is very straight.
And also anything like anywhere you could imagine an infinity symbol going yeah wow. So then I completely agree with you about the leg placement. I think similarly to that, something that's like in the lower arm, like right below the elbow and.
Off center or something is very gay.
It's very like, you know, it's sort of on the continuum of graphic designer architect, you know, kind of that you know, yes, you're mixing art and commerce, but you're doing it tastefully.
Here's one. I think belly tattoos are back, yes, like in a big way, like Cisco style, yeah, or like and I think and I'm specifically seeing like bears get them mmmm in a way that I think is a cool look. Yeah. And and I do think it's because I'm not seeing like straight guys with abs do it. I'm seeing like gay bears have them in a way that I'm like, well, that's so I'm counting that when it's gay now too belly like over the belly button. Yeah,
like sort of like the Tupac thing. Oh I see, see, I see.
Okay, I was of course imagining Cisco's thing that goes around his belly button.
Oh no, no, I was thinking, okay, yeah, like the Tupac.
Like yeah, yeah, which is also I mean this is different, but like Rihanna underboob tattoo.
Yeah, that is gay. Yes, I think that. I think I think that counts as gay.
I think if it was someone other than Rihanna that had popularized that, it could have gone into the straight direction. But I think she has enough of a cool factor that it may that it remains slightly off kilter.
Hot hot take. I think face tattoos are straight.
One face tattoos are I mean, I keep wanting to say Benson Boone, but that's someone different. But like, you know exactly what I'm talking about when I say Benson Boone.
They are.
Face tattoos are like the thing that someone named Benson Boone would have.
Yeah, you're thinking, you have like post malone, post malone, and who's that like little swimmer, Like what was that swim swimming Teddy swims or something?
Teddy swims. We want tattoos, I would say, are also straight. Yeah, but here's the twist. Neck tattoos are also lesbian.
Hmmm.
I think there's a you know there are a little bit hey MoMA lesbian. Uh you know, big baseball.
Cap straight rim Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, it's like her name is Lauren, but not in like a chica, not in like a we're going a brunch away and I will knife you way.
Yeah I see that. Oh, while we're on the topic of lesbians. Can I divert from this? I think we covered the tattoos. We can I say one more thing? Yeah, rib, rib, gay or straight?
That Actually I think like rib, you know, under your armpit. I almost think that is the most down the middle, that is the most bisexual, because I think it really it depends on the vibe of the person who has it.
And it's almost like rib is the arm of gay.
It's like a RIB tattoo is like either a straight person trying to be alt or a gay person trying to be tasteful.
Yeah, and all of these it's just like they will all be gay if they're sticking poke, you know.
Yes, I want to talk about I want to talk about our backlash.
I want to talk about our clip. We posted a clip in which we were talking discussing lesbians and saying and they love mask and film.
Yes, the butcher and femme dichotomy in lesbian and other queer communities.
And then we said we need to have a summit to talk to the lesbians about this. And so, in sort of classic online fashion, we're getting like random random people out of the woodwork being like really angry.
Which I get by the way, and we knew that. Sorry, but like I knew that would happen, Like we know it's every.
One here, Yeah, we know what we're doing here. It was like an obvious thing, but in a way that I kind of thought like that style of Internet had passed. Like I was sort of like, there's so much like stuff in the world that like, there's no way we're gonna get random people coming out and being like this is disgusting, stay in your lane like stuff like that.
But I actually think the fact that we haven't gotten more is a sign of what you're saying. Really, I think so because I think in it. I think in twenty twenty, that would be like shared in the front page of the New York Times and it would be like the chasm between gay men and gay women.
Yeah, I think like there's a part of me where you because you chose that clip and I actually thought it was genius, and I felt like we were like letting go of the wall of the pool. We were like actually swimming because we're betting Tetty Swims, We're reading Teddy Swims. Because we both knew there's going to be people that take this out of context and are mad, but it's also like you look at the clip and everything said is actually deeply inoffensive, and so it's like and we're.
Literally saying the entire time, we don't know we want to talk to lesbians about it.
Yeah, And so it was just like I was actually very proud of us for committing. Sure, we're going elon mode. We're going, we're going, we're getting like, we're not leading with fear.
No, we're not leading with here, and I think and we're also trusting, we're trusting our audience, yeah, which I actually think. I think being like condescending to your audience and treating them as chill is much more offensive than just trusting that they understand context and are open minded about your flaws and the gaps in your knowledge.
And we're like just like fine with it. Like the people being like posting something crazy, it's sort of like it's weird to look at because you're like, well that's bizarre, and you like almost want to be like, hey, I think you're misunderstanding, but then you're like, oh, who cares, Like whatever.
You now there's something you know, you see a comment that grossly misstates what you said or something, and of course you want to be offended, but you can also just be like, isn't it beautiful? We're all part of this giant community and it's such a big tent that your dumb ass can coexist with me in the common section of this stupid random video.
It's really it is interesting the different internets everyone is on. Yeah, and that was actually like the way that people are disliking this clip again, we'll make it do better, like and it's a big question. You know.
That's what I learned from Chris Hayes's book about the attend economy. You know, it's it's not about good or bad. It's just about attention or no attention.
Yeah, so that was interesting. Yeah. First, the lesson from Trump is be more like him. I mean, folks, if you can't beat him.
All right, Wait, not to be so obsessed with this tattoo question, but final question finger tattoos a la Ariana Grande, where do you stand?
Well, this is where I was almost afraid for this to be asked, because it's really complex because I think when women get the like Ariana Grande really dainty ones that to me is so like straight girl that lives in La. Well, it's it's a straight girl that has
read the body keeps a score. Yeah, and like, to me, it's a sign of you know, I'm thinking of like one specific woman I saw at brunch maybe two months ago that I actually haven't been able to shake because she had the little finger tattoos, but everything was so done, like the makeup was perfect, the hair was perfect, like, and this is at like eleven am on a Saturday, And I was like, you're like almost wanting the finger tattoos to show like I'm not perfect, but everything inside
of you is screaming, please see me as perfect. Seeing the finger tattoos just adds more perfection. Like I'm like, that is just you're trying to balance how perfect everything is and you can't. Like that's too perfect. Also genius, so I'm But then the knuckle tats also, I go either way like that because it.
Could be leather, it could be leather culture. Yeah, yeah, the eagle, you know, stud exact knuckles.
And so I'm torn on that because I don't know many straight guys who like just sincerely do that nowadays. Total. Maybe that's because I only know with cucks and losers. Yeah, but I do know gay guys who have it because of that eagle vibe.
Yeah, and I also think it's hot totally. I would say also anything around the collarbone, I think, no matter the gender, is pretty gay.
Yeah yeah, all.
Right, next call Oh now this is this is a big star of the night.
Hey, George and Sam. I have a question for what you would do in.
A scenario that I have experienced recently.
So I meet this cute guy on an apt and he says he wants to come over and have me use him as a foot rest while I watch TV. And I was kind of like, that's a new one for me, but you know, I can oblige easy enough. But then I was like, well, what do I watch? Like, Like, I can't.
Like, I don't know, put on an episode of drag Race, or maybe maybe I could and we could both watch together, And I don't know. I was really kind of going through a spiral trying to think of what would be appropriate in that scenario. I ended up going with a hockey game because that felt safe. I don't even follow sports, and I don't think hitos either, but that just kind
of felt like it was the right of mood. But I'm curious what you would do in that situation, like what TV shows or movies do you think would be good to watch while you're using a stranger from the internet as a flowrest.
Let me know what you think.
Okay, bye, damn. I love that.
First of all, I'm standing up and I'm giving that a standing ovation Nicole Scherzinger style at Sunset Boulevard. I'm saying, you ate that, bitch.
You ate that bitch. I want to commend you for your approach to sexuality. I feel like I have a really similar approach where you know, I've I've been on record as saying this and I stand by it. I unfortunately have an improviser's approach to sexuality where if someone says I want to try this, I'm like, sure, yeah, okay,
I'll try that totally. And I like there are people that you get hit up by on the apps where they're like, I want to do this, and you're sort of like, well, especially when it's like low effort for you, where it's like, if you're getting a kick out of this, and I can tell people I get to use someone as so foot rest, then sure I'll.
Try it, and I want to commend you for So that's that's sort of your Sam side is the improviser's approach to sexuality. I think the George side of this is hearing that and your thought being not like questioning the sexual part of it, but questioning what what do you watch on TV? Like that kind of like neurotic indecisiveness and then being like paralyzed by that choice so much so that you sort of like forget what you're doing this all for is very you know, me sitting down to write, I really.
Do see how complicated it is, because I think I'm a little confused, like do you use him as a foot rest and then hook up? Or is it just you use him as a footrist rest and then leave? Because if you're then hooking up, then I would want something that's sexy to you as well. Yeah, Like, but yeah, if you're just like, if you're if the whole goal is sort of just ignore him, then I think it could be fun to put on something that even something that you enjoy that he like actively does not know
anything about totally. I was even thinking it would be fun to sort of put on like or do something that he doesn't want to see and don't let him watch, Like put on like the new episode of Severance and be like you, but but you have to turn away from the TV. All I enjoy it? What about this? Okay?
You do like an exaggerated version of not being able to decide what you want to watch and you're just going from Netflix homepage to HBO homepage to Amazon homepage pricing something and then like get out of their two minutes in like doing the most annoying possible things someone could experience secondhand.
I actually love that. I think that's really torturous.
I think that could be fun. I think, needless to say, there's something especially can give about watching like a really wholesome like family, like truly watching a Christmas story while you are using someone as if at rest.
Yeah, that is fun.
Or along similar lines, watching like a rom com, like watching Devil Wors you know, Bridge Jones's Diary or something.
What would you like realistically you're going to do this, what would you choose? Okay, let's see, because I think, unfortunately for me, I would choose something sort of inoffensive, like I do think I would watch like Honestly Survivor, like something that I can check in on or can check out of. And yeah, I think I would watch something like a little innocuous like that.
I have to say, I think in theory that is the right thing to do, and I actually think that's what this person would want. I would sort of not be able to resist the temptation to watch something gay and just sort of like add another layer of kind of confusion to the whole thing, Like just watch something that I know has a very intense sex seed and just be like, let's see where this goes.
Sure, that's fun.
I don't know why, but I keep wanting to say Michael Clayton or like a legal thriller. Yeah, because because you know what it is is Okay, here's what I think is drawing me to it. You want something that gets your heart rate up and has tension, but not in a sexual away because that would be too obvious. Like it's actually sort of amateurish to press play on like literal porn. But what if you press play on Run Lola run, you know what I mean?
Yeah? Or the born identity, Well, I'd love to do a rewatch. Of course. I do think the hockey game is a smart choice. Yeah, no, I get, but but then it's also like a little too performative. If you don't even really care, well that's the thing.
If you don't care, then you're basically sitting there being like, oh my god, I can't believe I'm using him as a put rest.
I can't believe you're a put rest. You do you actually want to watch?
Yeah? Right, exactly? Okay, Wow, this is interesting. I also I sort of want to know like how this night turned out.
I mean, all media in and sex are confusing. This is something I think about a lot with Like I don't know, like if if you're like hanging out with people who are like potential sexual partners and you're like, you know, hanging out playing music, it's like normal, and then you're like, okay, let's go to the bedroom, and then there's no music, and it's sort of like, oh well, this now feels like very like let's get it done, and it's like, well, you want that like hang out
vibe still. But then if you're like very purposely putting on music in the bedroom, it's a little like, well, you're a pervert, Like don't like why would you stop and think about what music to play? And then and then like had to have a sex play Like the topic taste of sex music is.
One of the most confusing areas. I would say, yeah, you literally can't. It's so difficult to find the happy medium. We're on the one hand, you're trying so hard if you're putting on Shot Day Total whatever. But then on the other side, you're not going to put on Vampire Weekend, But like, what is it?
And I genuinely don't know. I mean it's like even something like Joni Mitchell is like, whoa, that's what what are you? What are you doing? You know, it's the most cliche you know that band rye No is it our a ye make the do me.
Our our h y e it is They truly make by the way, I'm a fan, don't get me wrong, but they make sex music for straight people who live in Clinton Hill, Like it is specifically meant to be played in that context and listen, it does the job, but it is so obviously for that that it almost like desexualizes what you're doing. Okay, here's my final thought on this footrest thing. Regardless of what you watch, here's
what you do after it's over. Ready, literally just get up, go to your bedroom, close the door as they're just going to sleep. Come back out, fully nude, just to turn off the light in the living room. Go back into your room.
He's in the dark.
He's literally on his hands and knees in the dark, and you are asleep. He's fully humiliated, and he now is to pick himself up in the dark and leave your apartment.
Wow, you're good at this. Thank you.
I have Sam and George. I have a question that I really need your help with. Need some scientific inquiry here. What the fuck is going on with wrestling? Not the professional wrestling with like you know John Cena, but like the college high school wrestling. It is so so homosexual and yet you know non self aware Midwestern dads who their favorite activity is mowing their lawns. They go crazy for it, So, like, what's going on there? I think
we need a FULLS radio lab investigation. I know you guys have kind of covered covered it a little bit on like I think the Contact Sports episode, and that was helpful. But I think maybe Sam needs to go undercover and join a wrestling team. I think maybe George needs to do like a full you know, spotlight style research. I think maybe you guys should do, like do a commentary on a wrestling broadcast.
I don't know.
I just think I think we need we need to know what's going on. I need to understand it's it's like it transcends straightness and gayness in a way that maybe will heal the world or maybe we'll destroy it. I don't know, but just wanted to get you guys' boss, love you bye.
Uh uh. This is like the way that I'm just simply too biased to actually engage with this is it makes it journalistically impossible because I'm like, it just is too sexual to me. It is too sexual, it is too hot. It is like the wrestling teacher, the wrestling coach at my you know, middle school, high school, the way that I wanted to have sex with them so bad, Like every I remember wanting to join the wrestling team, and I'm being like, no, you don't. And ultimately she
was right, but I did. I was just like I think, and I didn't even know how to label it. I didn't know. I was like, oh, I'm just horny and acting crazy. But I was like, I was fully just like I'm horney and want to join the wrestling team. And it is deeply, deeply, deeply confusing, And I agree, I don't know what the deal is with Midwestern dads that love it, but I wish like it's almost like I'm jealous that they're able to engage with it in a non sexual way because I cannot.
Yeah, it's funny that you wanted to join, because I had the opposite reaction, where because it was so clearly sexual, I was like, well, I'm going to get a boner, like and I can't be just like not that anyone was begging for me to join the wrestling team, by the way, but it like I could never be expected to be just like being touched by a man while like cupping his butt and then not and what am I gonna do?
You're literally like miming fucking for like the whole time.
But I almost think this topic, I almost think high school and college wrestling is like.
The topic that breaks the stradio lab.
Model, Like there is actually something about it that is it's not exactly the exception and that proves the rule, But it's like that it's it is so perfectly down the middle and emblematic of all the things we talk about about, how like something is so straight that it circles back around to being gay about how being homerootic is actually like straight sometimes because it's like an expression of masculinity. It's like it's father son relationships. It's high
school sports. It is like men weeighing themselves. It's little leotards and like color coded outfit. Like there, it's I can't even begin to process how I would like rank it as gay or straight or put it in conversation.
With other topics that we've had, which is why I think we've done.
We've done UFC fighting, which is different, like I could easily talk about like pro wrestling. I could talk about like boxing, but there is something about that kind of wrestling that kind of breaks the brain.
It really does. And I honestly wonder how you know. Wrestling as a sport, as a as a college and high school sport made so much more sense when people were closeted, when people had to be closeted, because it was sort of like, well, why would this ever be attractive?
And now that it's like, well obviously this is attractive to some, it's like it's like this doesn't make sense anymore, Like like I'm thinking of the duke wrestling Instagram knows people find it hot they like post videos of the wrestlers like wrestling and then like stand and you're like you can see their bulges, you can see like how hot and horny it all is, and they like are leaning into it a little bit, or at least the social media manager is, and we were I'm like, I
don't know if this is right either, Like it's don't get me wrong, it's hot, but I'm like, this is crazy. This is just like these are just athletes.
Yeah, yeah, why are you posting Why are you posting them with the caption like who's got cakes today?
Yeah? Yeah, But I've like genuinely lost myself on an Instagram account for like fifteen minutes because I was like, damn, this is so hot. Yeah.
I mean, I will say the sort of tragedy of someone being a real athlete, like being genuinely training to be good at something and giving it they're all and doing it out of a pure love of the sport and out of a desire to win, and not being able to escape how porny they look is like definitionally camp, you know what I mean, Like there is something that's like that is that where you cannot exist outside of the sexual implications of the performance.
You know what this reminds me of. Actually, it's Jalynovak's sex potatoes joke where she's talking about like being a woman having a woman's body, and like just it's like you're constantly walking around with a bag of sex potatatoes and everyone's always like, ooh, sex potatoes for sale and she's like, no, I'm just walking around and she like
can't take off the sex potatoes. Yeah, And that's how wrestler. Like, wrestlers are just trying to wrestle, and they keep people keep trying to buy their sex potatoes and they can't. They can't get rid of it. No, they can't get rid of them.
Although I mean it's then it's like, actually, when you're there and it's just straight people and fathers, no one is addressing the sex potatoes. They actually are all living in a bubble where there is no No one is thinking like isn't this camp? No one is thinking like, isn't it.
Weird that he just like touched his like pulled his testicle. Yeah, isn't it weird that he just mounted him? Yeah? I yeah, I mean wrestling in particular because other sports have like variations of nudity, variations of swimming. I'm swimming for carrying out loud, but they're not fucking rubbing each other. They're not dominating one another, like it's literally.
And water polo, for example, is gay, Like it's like you are you there? It's very like silly to be like splashing around and then put, you know, drag down someone's bathing suit and you can like briefly see their ass, Like that is that silly? Whereas wrestling there's also something about wrestling that just reminds me of like there's something quint essentially Uh not sad, that's not what I want to say, but like it's very like the dad was a wrestler himself but then got an injury, Like it's
very mickey your work in the wrestler. There's something so where you just like all of them are underdogs, no matter if you're winning, Like all of them are underdogs and you want to see them succeed. And I actually, even saying all of this, I feel bad making fun of wrestling because I'm like.
Those men are doing their best. This is all they got. No, you're so right the moment you decided to become a wrestler.
You are an underdog, Yes, exactly the moment you're to say you're an underdog. Your mom has curly bangs and she's trying to feed for seven children.
I'm thinking about the people that were did wrestling in high school, and they were all underdogs. Like it's like a certain level of like sort of athletics, sort of nerdy. Yes, like, yeah, that is really interesting.
Even though it's such a show of strength. You're not the you're not the quarterback, you're not homecoming king. You're kind of like weird and good at math.
Yeah, wrestling is very you're good at math. Fuck fuck.
But again, all of this is further proof that it's like break like it's so we found the one thing that is un analyzable, like we cannot use our critical thinking skills to crack.
It, and also not to you know, the Greek the Greek roots of course, of course, and being like fully naked and like oiled up, yes.
Which of course makes it both right wing coded in one sense in the sense of like let's get back to men being men, you know, et cetera.
But then also is.
Like you know, utopian, back to Earth. On the other side of things, so it can even be read as like progressive.
In some way, it is like impossible to comprehend, you know, you know there's like gay rugby leagues and gay hockey leagues. I can't believe there's not a gay wrestling league. But I was thinking about this.
Is I yes, I thought about this, and then I and then I forgot that I wanted to make the point. But that's another example of how complicated it is. It is the one sport, even though it's on paper the gayest thing you can possibly do is like simulate sex with your friends. It is the one thing that doesn't have gay leagues. And of course don't write to us. I'm sure we're sure it does. But they're not as
popular as the gay rugby and gay dodged ball. And I actually think, of course the reason is because it's too.
Close to sex. Well, of course, there's no you can't pretend you're not having as because you kind of are.
Yeah, and you know they would start having sex right there on the rink.
God, back to the foot table guy, m I've always there's always like those guys that are like want to wrestle, like on scruff and stuff, And I've always been like, could be kind of exciting, but I also don't have I don't actually know how to do it. I love the premise, but I think if they actually know how to wrestle in a real way, it'll really quickly. Yeah, I don't need to be punched in the face. Yeah, Like I'm trying to be a protest.
By the way, maybe that's the answer. Is wrestling is so uh so dense as a text that that's the best and most like horny and inappropriate thing you could watch while using someone as a foot rest.
Is like college wrestling.
I'm not going to say high school because I think that would open up another can of worms, but college wrestling.
I'm all in. I'm all in. Okay, Well, I've never had to piece about in my whole life. Should be Yeah, let's wrap it up. Well, I thought this was a very success full call an episode. I do want to reiterate that this could be yours for the for the very low price of five dollars a month, and also generally we're going to do more of these episodes. If you want to call into three eighty five guys at any point that you feel and just leave a message and we'll comment on it basically, and I kind of
like that. We're going to just do it whenever we feel like it. Yeah, and to the guy who's voice like called gay, I'm sorry.
We love all the gay guys name Zach that called, and we invite even people who aren't gay guys named Zach to call from here on out. Yeah, even though Zach is trending as a name in my life. I for a while everyone was named Patrick, and now more and more people are named Zach.
Huh, just something I've noticed. I can see it for sure. Okay, Well, this has been an absolute delight. So goodbye. We love you, we love you. Be safe, be safe, bye bye.
Hi Georgian, Sam, this looks like not for the podcast, well if it's for you, but no obligation played on the podcast. But I just wanted to say how much I loved the show and that it's really become in an earnest miss Demands a way very meaningful to me, and I want to say thanks for putting it out. I am like the opposite of you two on, a twenty five year old who lives in Texas and works in corporate finance. But I love the show. It cracks me up. I've gotten a lot of my both friends
and my sister hooked on the show. And I have one friend that in particular really loves to show with me.
Let me listen to it and talk about it together, and I'm we always debate on who is the Georgian, who is the Sam, and our friendship that's what I was close together, and I don't know, I knew year knew me thinking about things and wanted to say thanks for you know, putting out a great setting show that has meant a lot to me for the past year that I've been listening and I'm canching up on the backlog of you know, the years before that I wasn't
listening in real time. So anyway, just want us to say things and that yeah, I love you both, and I hope your five is then off to really good starts.
And yeah, okay, bye.
Bye podcast And now want more? Subscribe to our Patreon for two extra episodes a month, discord access and more by heading to patreon dot com. Slash Stradio Lab, and for all our visual earners, free full length video episodes are available on our YouTube now get back to work. Stradio Lab is a production by Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network and iHeart Podcasts created and hosted by George Severs and Sam Taggart. Executive produced by Will Ferrell, Hans
Soni and Olivia Aguilar. Co produced by Bei Wang, edited and engineered by Adam Avalos. Artwork by Michael Failes and Matt Gruff. Same music by Ben Kling