"Lady Gaga and the Concept Of Time Pt 2" w/ Amy Zimmer

Hello, Hello, this is George, and this is your final reminder if you live in Philly, Boston, or in New York City, that this is your last chance to see me do stand up comedy before I record my special on April first. If you are in Philly, the show is tomorrow. I repeat tomorrow. If you are listening to this on Tuesday, the show is Wednesday, March twelfth at Philamocha, featuring Sam Ruddy, who is one of my absolute faves. If you are in Boston March twentieth, there are two shows,

Okay, Okay, Now I'm rethinking what if we start out sort of with our maybe Okay, So first of all, I think format wise, it's you know, discussing the time that has passed, you know, how we were here for CHROMATICA, what has come what has passed?

Did Sam tell you that I like, I really like your idea, Sam of so, the first time you were on for Gaga, it was Lady Gaga in the Passage of Time, and this is going to be Lady Gaga in the Passage of Time part two that I love. And so I actually think the fact that she said her age on SNL, which is insane, like, oh, I think our way in is like the passage of time. You don't like that.

I don't want to.

I don't want to.

We're keeping this in by the way, Okay, so, and then I think we will have to do a track by track and then.

Where we list our health conditions with each one or since the since twenty twenty.

I'm crying. Okay, let's just start.

But I do actually think it would be funny to keep in the last like two minutes.

Fine, okat podcast starts now. Welcome little monsters, like big monsters. More like big monsters. So we are here today with a very very special episode because you know, we're throwing our whole framework out the window and we're saying enough, it's time for us to become what we were meant to be, which is a Lady Gaga Stand Podcast.

Goga Recap podcast, The Week in Gaga.

So, last time on Lady Gaga, it was twenty twenty and oh.

My god, what is it? Twenty twenty? Not even twenty one.

It was twenty twenty. The vaccine was nowhere to be found. We were locked in our homes and we had Amy Zimmer on to discuss the release of not Chromatica, but rain on me, just rain on me. Chromatica had not come out yet.

Oh I didn't even know that.

And so that episode was titled Lady Gaga in the Passage of Time. And so now you are entering Lady Gaga in the Passage of Time, Part two with our guest Amy Zimmer. Welcome to the podcast, Amy Zimmer, Hi.

Thank you for having me.

I do want to say one thing, which is that podcast episode produced one of Amy's big, biggest ideas of many there are many things Amy says that kind of I put away in the in the library of my mind, and I say, in the spank bank, in this in this bank bank, in my intellectual spank bank, and I say, when you need to jerk it intellectually, you can always reach for these. You can always go into the Amy folder.

Think that is hung in high relief now when you say yeah, and.

It actually is funny to think now now I think of that as so long ago, but you said that in twenty twenty, so it really was about the decade that had just ended. I mean, this was very kind of, you know, a New York Times opinion section, like, let's take stock of the last decade.

It's amazing because I completely black out eighty five percent of that episode. And to hear what I said back to me about twenty years later, it's really profound. But I agree with that. Yeah, sure, and I think you know what a what a tragic patina it has now come.

The patina feeling tragic. First of all, the feeling when the Patina is tragic. Second of all that Patina, it's like it's like The Titanic. It's the first scenes of The Titanic where the little camera is under the water and they're finding things and they're all covered in that sort of like chunky, chunky substance where.

Little cameras are under the water. That's pretty much where we're at, I would say, I think, I.

Mean, I guess the twenty tens are sort of you know, the Titanic main narrative Leo Rose and in the twenty twenties are more little camera under the water finding chunky substance.

I mean, no more than ever. I I almost want to start with just so listeners. I don't know if they know with all of our relationships with Lady Gaga. Yeah, Amy Abe, please kick this off really even if if it because since we talked, Chramatica has come out, there was a tour, there's been a whole and then now a new album. I want to know if anything of your relationship with her has changed in the last five years.

Yeah. I think it would be a little a little uh distressing if it hadn't. I actually think this entire what it seems to be like her sort of promotional cycle around this album. Is that how much things have changed, you know, which is a big part of time. I don't know if you know about this, but I would say yeah. I mean there's always something that changes in your relationship to a mega pop star in the course of a life. And I also think, who who I am since I even said that, has changed a lot.

So yeah, since you just said that, like since you said.

Yeah, yeah, well that's yeah, the Mayhem of my mystery. Oh but there is something eternal I think to being interested in her work, which is too like constantly sort of not know how you're feeling at any given moment until you do.

Yeah, there's a productive ambiguity there.

Mm hmm.

Yeah. So as I want to know, like as Mayhem is coming out, you know, tell us what's going through your brain? Tell us if it's sort of the emotions that it's sparking as she's promoting. I want to know, like, are you like, is it fear, is it wonder? Is it excitement? Is an anxiety? What are you feeling as she is, you know, debuting her black hair and her this font. And I want to know. I want to know it all.

Yeah, how do you feel about the font?

About the orange font? Yeah, it's the last thing on my mind. I guess when I come to everything. I mean, I've been seeing a lot of these things where it's like compare Lady Gaga's fonts over the years, which I think is symptomatic of something much darker in the culture. To go over the font of a of a of a business is kind of crazy. But I was really excited.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, So when we say dark pop, because I have to say I'm very much on the outskirts of this.

By the way, that's not a genre that kind of exists.

But is that we're talking like Alejandro, I.

Think we're talking well, I think that obviously the two the two lead singles that came out were featuring like a really more goth heavy sound, a more industrial sound, which everybody came to know her for. And I felt that the visuals in Disease in particular were exciting. I love the choreo with Paris, the new direction. I thought, you know, okay, there's there's there's effort, energy, and momentum, which I think, as you if you're going to chart

But you know, what are the three things again?

I don't know.

I wasn't going to catch that.

I just think it's effort, energy and momentum.

Effort, energy, momentum, energy and momentum. Yeah, that's our sort of chrisma, uniqueness, neurve in talent.

Effort, energy and momentum is huge, Amy, is it really it's.

Huge effort, energy momentum. Because I do agree, because actually, when Disease first dropped, it was like there was just the single, no music video, and I was like, is there effort, energy and momentum? Like I was like, there's a little effort, like you did put the song out, but is it energy? Is it momentum?

You felt Disease was not energy or momentum.

I did. I felt like it was okay, effort, yeah, and then once the video came out, then I was like, okay, now we have energy, effort, momentum. Yeah.

What's interesting about those three is that it's not quite that. You know, you have one that's one third, you have two that's two thirds. It's not like that at all, actually, because if you have effort but not energy and momentum, that actually is a self defeating effort, because then an effort without energy and momentum just seems desperate, and it's almost worse than not having effort at all. It's worse

Yeah, well that's a key part. That's a key part of this anyway. But I'm interested what you said, Sam, you weren't sort of excited by disease when it happened, or you didn't feel all three were happening.

I didn't feel all three were happening, So my.

Really, whereas I did, I was like, all right, I did two I did.

That's awesome. I was jealous of that, as as you know, chromatica was nearly a mental illness for me. I think it's.

Unilaterally that for almost everybody involved. I can't imagine a universe where it was, you know, like a tranquil amber where you're healthy.

You're just sort of like, oh, yeah, I'm just having a sip of wine listening to Chromatica.

I listened to it so much. I bought over five T shirts your merch.

I didn't know that addiction was actually crazy, Sam, And I'm still finding out about new T shirts that you own from the CHROMATICA.

Currently wearing the Dawn of CHROMATICA shirt.

And can I ask something all of these you paid for. It was not the Goga team. Gaga didn't send them to you as an LGBTQ plus influencer. You didn't maybe get the meta concert like as a free promotional GID.

I was lost. I was lost, and I think I needed it so bad. Yeah, So I was buying merch lenchon right, and I was sort of like, well, this is the only time I can buy Chromatic emerges this moment in time, the summer of twenty twenty, when they're when we are all locked in our homes.

Of course, except all the various people that completed your order.

Say that, so, yeah, pretty much. I had to buy as many shirts as I could.

And do you feel and you when disease came out, you didn't feel the need to let's say, google Gaga disease T shirt.

Yeah, where's your merch stance. Now that we can leave our homes freely and sort of we'll go about in the political social climate that is, you know, reaching a fever pitch.

I mean I literally have I did look up you know, I said, I can't wait for the Mayhem March to drop. Then I went to the website. It turns out it already did. And it's just sort of not exciting to me, which I think is growth, Like I think is like a good sign. It's a sign that I'm healthier at least. And I think when disease came out, I was sort of like sort of expecting to go into a psychosis once again totally, and instead I was like, oh, okay,

That's odd.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think a big part of this album subtextually actually is like a really noble millennial embracing of getting older, at least on Goga's part. Yeah, which I really respect.

Because you want to talk about that, I'll talk When did.

I say I didn't want to talk about that?

Remember at the very beginning when I was like, you know, a big part of the help of Cycle is the passage of time. And I was actually very struck by the fact that on SNL she said specifically her age.

Yeah, we said, do you want to talk about it?

No, coward, No, You literally were like, I can't talk about it.

I didn't want to be like, I'm forty two and I have sinocidist since Chromatica came out, you know what I mean, Like, I do want to talk about you know.

Okay, you want to talk about her embracing aging as an elder millennial.

Well as a pop star specifically, I think that's an incredibly it's a beautiful moment. I think in a larger recording artist, of course, it's the way of like Rear and it's critical.

To their.

Artistry, which is a favorite word I think of Stephanie, and I think like her. It just seems like in the promotional efforts, she's pretty dead set on being grounded an adult, or at least a presentation of like stability after and that, like, you know, I think she's trying to make it pretty clear that like this is about her enjoying making Lady Gaga music again, and that she is thirty eight. I don't know, I don't know.

Do you think I think, yeah, so, because I'm obviously Gaga. Whenever she's promoting anything, there is a certain character she's playing, and uh, you know, for our Pop it was like Mermaid. For Stars Born, it was Angenu in her first big starring role. For Joker Too, she was like on the verge of murdering.

Uh.

And for this one, I find it interesting that she is actually choosing to be kind of like sort of normal. Yeah.

It's like down tempo grunge like Tampa Girl, which I can.

Do exactly, and she's it's actually crazy how she's you know, you think of her as someone who is inherently, and I say this in a positive way, inherently weird. Inherently theater kid esque. Inherently there's something a little bit off, and the way that she has managed to just turn that off completely and be just like charming doing her a monologue like you know, like kind of talking very

Up until?

That's critical? I mean, I mean, to wonder about what if anything's been a lie or not is to like, is to fool yourself in this, you know, the whole the lie of Lady Gaga is the essential core of Lady Gaga.

No, I fully agree.

I don't think it's about whether or not she means anything or not. I don't think this it's like some kind of trickster album rollout either. I think it's like I think she's simply saying like I mean, maybe it's a good segue into perfect celebrity. And I don't know if you want to go track by track or what, but let's go track by.

Track starting now. Okay, okay, let's start with disease. We've discussed it briefly personally. It really grew on me and I'm obsessed with it. I also love how Zellia Banks is obsessed with it, and that has informed me a lot.

We'll talk about the passage of time to see literally to see to see some beautiful things blooming from from twenty thirteen to now is really nice to see. But yeah, I was excited by the grit and the grist of it, and I really liked I have always liked when she's doing something a little more sledgehammery, and so I really liked the base in this and the visuals and I was like, all right, you know, nothing that would make me, you know, buy five or six T shirts or something

And I give Disease three T shirts.

I give Disease three T shirts. I'm excited it will get more into this later.

Four T shirts for.

M I give it three and a half.

Okay.

What something I like about this album is that it really solidified a lot of the Gaga themes and motifs. There's like a real world building element to it, Like there are these themes of illness, murder, fame as a prison, a lot of the stuff that we've seen before but re examined in slightly different ways, and I really do appreciate that. I also something about the passage of time

Well, that's always the hope I have with with artists at the peak of their popularity, while they're approaching that age range which I think you're you know, by force or by decision, you have to kind of release the trappings of ngenew you know, an ingenue persona or really just any youth of the pop star and hopefully push

And I do think this isn't quite a ray of This isn't quite out of left field. I will say as well as I am enjoying it. It's a return.

It's a return with a twist.

It's a return with a twist, but it isn't it isn't a left swing in the way that art pop was after Born this way.

Yeah, well, I think we should move on to Abrica. Okay, the second track, the second single even well, I guess third. If you can't die with a smile but to die for I feel like I give this five T shirts. When this came out, I said, oh my god, like I'm going to be so taken care of for the next few months, right, And I said, I want to hear this out and about I said, you know, talk about return to form, but with a twist. It felt like a combo sort of all of the eras in

That's awesome. You hate it, I don't hate it.

I don't hate it. I think I had this one moment because she what was it, like the super Bowl or the Grammys or something. She like dropped the video as a commercial, but as.

An American Express commercial.

It was like a MasterCard commercial, mister card commercial.

Excuse me, sorry, sorry to the master Card team. It was a master Card commercial.

If you really want to, you know, throw me back to my youth. It's like, let me get excited about a MasterCard commercial.

Yeah, but yeah, lady got got dropping a video iceless. Yeah.

Well, I think the twenty tens idea that I said seven years ago holds up here, which is like, you know, her music is sort of dovetails with a liberal ideology that we you know, will unspool for it seems the rest of our lives.

You are completely there. And I actually think that, like the fact that it's all these things that she's doing are hearkening back to the kind of majesty of the bad Romance era but are also sponsored by MasterCard. Is part of the wistfulness of it.

Like I know, and well, I guess my my like my joke and also my feeling, which is just like let her cook, so to speak. I don't know, it's sort of like, uh, this is sort of what she does. And I I was like, wow, it's in. I like the song the sort of like spark of recognition where you're like, oh my god. I think I like the song, like to to be like brought out of some kind of slumber whenever, like Gaga has like it like an

But I'm really trying to like parse out your headspace right now. I know me too.

It's actually really fascinating. It's like listening to a public intellectual.

It shouldn't ben't be like that, I guess, is what I'm trying to say. Here's something I will say about about abracadabra where And I don't want to say this phrase anymore than need be, But I did want to ask your guys opinion about this, this sentiment of rep it we need say once now let me let me finish. Okay, yes, of course, let me finish. We're obviously that's a phrase that's going around.

It's the new epidemic. It's the new COVID.

Nineteen, certainly. And I think you can always argue that that an artist pulls references and re originates things, recontextualizes things into a new form, or like things of this nature. But I find it a little distressing that the oh currant kind of phrase at the moment is literally pointing to a culture of leftovers. Do you know what I mean?

Yes, I do know what you mean. I think we are I think the nachosification of pop music has gone really far. I know everyone's always pulling, I know everyone's always referencing, but I am sort of like, like this album, Like so for Disease, for example, I was sort of like, I think what originally didn't spark with me is I was like, this sounds like the Kim Petress Halloween album, Like it sounds the production sounds identical to the Kim

Yeah. Well, I actually don't think like I'm faulting her for any of that. I just think it's interesting in the way we talk about popular music now, which is just like if somebody is to successfully kind of you just have to sort of successfully reference something and not recontextualize it too much for it to be enjoyable.

And this goes back to my big idea, Right, it's not content creators, it's context creators at all. All we're doing is recycling the same things but giving them slightly different context.

Well. For example, also Useexua, which I loved, I stand, but there are songs on there where it's literally Ray of Light. Like it sounds like identical to songs on Ray of Light, which you know is having its flowers once again. But it is just like a big ray of.

Lights, like, uh, you know what can be said, it's a it's a pinnacle album in music in music history, and those sounds are are still futuristic, I think, is what you're saying. Like they're still leading edge, they're still cutting edge, and I think that's an album where the core of it is about huge experimentation and huge experimentation

Well also in terms of the integration of it, it is literally her artificial celebrity self and her quote unquote real authentic self integrating that is a big part of the of the kind of theme of Ray of Light.

Mm hmm. So so talk to me, So talk to me.

I'm struggling with I I'm struggling with the Nacho's conversation because here's one take, here's one way into it. I want to just reject wholesale the language of TikTok. I don't just because three people said this phrase and then people saw it and thought it was, you know, pleasing to the ear in some way, thought it was like an interesting lens through which to view pop cultures. Then

Well, when you're talking about popular music, though, I kind of feel like you have to hear it out.

Almost completely, right.

I don't think you can avoid you can't.

You're right.

It's like sort of saying like, I mean, would James Joyce refuse the language of his day? I just don't think that's real?

Yeah, yeah, I guess what I'm I'm still holding onto this nostalgic feeling that Internet language, language native to the Internet is less substantial and less real than language that is created in real time and space, and that is just the It's it's over, it's over.

Yeah, I would I hate to say it, but I think language is going the way of the Dodo.

I don't want, I mean phrase my.

Whole deal on on words. And I think it might be time to Nacho reheat.

Reheat, Hello, reheat.

Do we want to move to.

Track three, Garden of Eden?

Yeah, I'll take to take you to the Garden of Eden.

Well, this feels like a you know, a return to a variety of Gaga's past. It really, I do think overall Mayhem is is is a Brunette album, not just because she's met in this album cycle, but it's it's the two thousand and seven sort of situation and it's like this is you know, one of the story demos or something. And it took me, of course, it took

I was taken aback in a positive but then in a positive way, like I was like it was like seeing someone wear like a von Dutch hat, Like when that came back and I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Yeah, I didn't know where you could do that.

I do think there's something like kind of really truthful about I mean, she's really going back to two thousand and seven in a way if you can understand in this moment, because she was there and so and so. I think the dynamism that she brings to like her the songs, it's like, it's got true two thousand and six vibes in a way that's shocking. It's not just sort of cherry pick.

Yeah, it's true because actually so many of the people referencing that era are in fact twenty three and named Tate McCrae or something. Yeah, and so it is very different when she does it, as it almost makes you, well, I don't know what I was ioud to say, is that it almost makes you wish that is what Madonna was doing. Like how fun would it be if Madonna was referencing the eighties or nineties or like the material

I think it's a weird. It's a different delineation. I mean, I'm thinking about like MJ and Prince and Madonna and now not just Gaga, but like that this is I guess that's what I mean. And so I don't want to say nachos again. But when I brought up that point, the whole point being that like this is a demand now of of our current pop stars that I think it's like transcends like reinvention, which was like kind of

But it's Yeah. It used to be that the demand was originality, and you were judged based on how innovative you were being, and now the demand is the reheating. Yeah, that's right, and you are judged by how successfully it has maintained its crunch, its flavors and potentially if you're adding maybe some fresh parsley or something or solantro on top, you know what new twist you are bringing to it exactly.

This is like, unfortunately, why nachos is an effective flightwork. I can't no, it is an effective framework. It like gives you language to talk about, like like how things are repackaged, because like some stuff it is it is bad. Sometimes you're like, I reheated these and they're soggy and horrible. Sometimes you reheat it and you're like, oh, this is actually to die for. I'm loving these reheated nachos. There is an art to reheating.

Can I say something about reheating? By the way, and Lady Gaga, you know a lot of people forget this. When she first came out. One of the big accusations which was that she was reheating Prince Bowie Madonna. That was the accusation from the skeptics was that she was pastiche It was that there wasn't the new thing that you got from like a Janet Jackson, the new thing, the Quinte essentially, even even Brittany or something like the

Yeah.

Right, So the point being, it's actually very interesting. Gaga reheating her own past is almost the fuck you to the accusations that she was reheating that of others, because now she's saying, there is enough that I have contributed here that I can reheat it over and over and over again and the stench of the initial reheating is gone.

But you say that, but that's only this song. Then as we move forward, it's so many reheated nachos. Okay, okay, let's move on. Let's move by the way. I love Garden of Eden and I want that on the record. I love and I want that on the record.

Okay, fixed celebrity. Now I want to know what everyone thinks.

Well, first of all, the Gaga not reference being a plastic doll challenge, but.

Again, that's another event that damn If you want that kind of challenge, I question your fandom.

Yeah no, it's ill question what you believe about.

The woman we're talking about.

I think this is great art plastic.

Yes, I love the song. But when I was close listening all my first listen, I heard like that first verse that's about being a plastic doll, and I was like, we cannot literally say the phrase plastic doll again, but nevertheless she persisted, and then when it gets to the chorus, I am standing and I love this song.

The first time I listened to it, I thought this is like a quote unquote bad Gaga song, but bad in a fun Gaga way. But the more I listen to it, the more I actually think it's a good song.

No, this is a great one.

Actually it actually isn't. It's not plastic doll, which I think is a bit of a kind of like fun Gaga flop and like, of course I like it, but it's because I'm a fan. You think you don't think I think plastic doll is like it's like smore, I don't think plastic I don't. I don't think plastic dolls the song you're going to show someone to be like, look, this is a good Gaga sog.

I think, like I said, it's it's really hard, I mean, to discuss whether a song is good or bad, and in this conversation, I feel like it's besides the point that.

Being said, Yeah, that being said, I.

Love how her voice sounds in this. I wish sort of the last ten seconds of the song we're in more of the song itself, you know, there was I feel like the grungy thing was like turned up a little bit more at the end. But yeah, I like, I also want the This is my personal thing that I like of all pop stars, and I think it's really hard and maybe impossible to do, but I would love if more pop stars talked about how much they hate their hands.

Her friends.

Yeah, I mean, because I think I don't think it's like a hateful or vitriolic thing to talk about this very unnatural, like symbiotic thing, which I think is like a sort of I think it's a beautiful evolution of human human connection, but I think it's like flawed and crazy, you know what I mean, Like you become such an intimate figure in somebody's life and you're a stranger, and to talk about how upsetting and demanding and strange it is and how much you want to fulfill on that promise,

Of reheating Jesus as nachos.

George, promise me we'll never say that phrase again for the rest of this.

That.

Oh well, I do like what you said. If you had said that sort of normally, I think I would have had a different Yeah, but I do.

Yeah.

I mean the Christ's narrative is inherent in the in the American pop star.

I mean that feeling when the Christ's narrative is inherent.

I yeah, yeah. I also like what I was thinking about perfect a celebrity is it. It's almost like she's actually tried to give this message in for God got standards more subtle ways. It's like you she had paparazzi, she had plastic doll, and with this one she's like, Okay, guys, I'm gonna say this one last time. I feel like a plastic doll and you're all ruining my life. Capeche like that is it's sort of like it's.

Like she has the last time.

I don't time last time, but there.

Is something about it, even the title being so literal, like, it's so it's not even trying to be like metaphorical at least plastic doll. She's she's doing a metaphor.

She's just I think I really appreciated that because I was expecting when I saw the title, I was like, Oh, it's gonna be like tongue in cheek and it's gonna be like a glossy pop song about how she's a perfect celebrity and it's gonna be like commenting. And then it was like, oh no, she's just like complaining in a positive way.

Yeah, I like it.

I like it. I'm in next track, Vanish into You. This is this I enjoyed.

I will say this is look Amy, here we go, Here we go.

Look. This is where the nachos thing gets complex. This, I would argue, is Gaga reheating her nachos, but she added treaded chicken that she found at the store.

I think I feel punished. I feel punished, and I feel wounded, and I feel like a plastic doll pretty much.

Yeah, this song is literally the chorus sounds like bad Romance, like she just does Bad Romance again, but slowed down with like a different like.

Last because she does a couple I I eyes, you're gonna you're gonna falter on that.

I'm not faulting her. I'm saying I'm crediting her and saying she is doing that. Did Jesus you don't feel this way?

Is it the ultimate? Is it the ultimate? Sorry to use this term flex to reference yourself?

I have to take time with that.

Is it the ultimate flex?

To reference yourself?

Rather than referencing You're saying, like, look at me, I'm referencing the classics? What are the classics? My old tracks?

I think the ultimate flex is to pretend you have a limp with a cane and then fall and do a flip and then stand up and walk normal.

But ultimate physical like hymn artistic, artistic physical.

I think, really wonga eight with that. But I think this is a close second. I think referencing yourself is a close second. I do.

Do we think originality on its own is over completely? I mean, did we just leave that behind in the twentieth century? Is it a modernist or has existed?

This is my mi Okay, here's what I was thinking. Okay, it still exists in the sort indie sphere, Like I was thinking about originality and whether or not it exists. And then I was like, okay, what about like Okay Lou, Like I was like, that's that's original right or am I just un informed? Sam?

Okay Lou is the most reference heavy. Well, but this is like early aughts like europop I've ever heard. It's literally like it's like a period piece. It's like kirea Nightly in Bend. It like Beckham dancing with a going out top.

But it's so like subdued. It feels fresh, it feels new to me.

Yeah, I think you have to argue what the the quality of freshness means, because I think you can always argue endlessly that an artist's job is to reference or not reference.

We can.

Keep going, keep going.

Yeah, it's a reference or not reference to.

God.

I wish I remember the rest of that video, but yeah, I'm sort of meditextually doing it even right now. I think an artist job is always to learn about things that happened before them, decide what it means to their work, and to either integrate it, change it or not in their in their in their work, and so you know, it's I don't think you can avoid avoid being referential, but you can ask yourself how much uh, your references are buried or sewn into the things that you're doing.

Did you guys listen to the new Pandaba album?

You're completely shutting me down. Not yet, but I have heard the single and I really liked it.

Well, it's really good. I really like it. But it's also nachos. It's fully just like it's like a very straightforward like I'm gonna make music from the sixties again, and in a way that I'm like, well, no one's doing that right now, I guess, so that's cool. I really enjoy it. But it's like, is this am I allowed? Is this like lazy that I even like this? Like yeah, so I'm torn on this is what I mean. I'm thinking a lot about nachos.

I mean, you know that famous essay we read Sam that said the last unique thing was Amy Winehouse.

You guys read that.

The syllabus.

It was on the syllabus Amy. We forgot to send it over. I actually I almost have a different Okay, here's my all right, get ready for this theory. I think there was a break in culture when Taylor Swift and I Knew you were Trouble included a drop that that was like, oh oh, trouble, trouble dubstep from the step Taylor Swift. Dubstep I think actually was the that was the It was the big bang that produced the microwave that was then used to reheat all nachos.

From that point, well, maybe we're touching on something that is terrifying to realize, which is like dubstep was a truly.

So literally amy That is exactly what I was leading to because I'm trying to think, you know, think of the twentieth century, how much innovation hip hop? Uh, just like all the various chapters of rock and roll innovations and jazz whatever, What was the in our young adulthood and adolescence.

What was the last new thing?

It was dubstep.

It was dumbstep and.

It was literally, like I swear to god, it was also like l M f AO.

Is pretty singular, well, I would argue is in tandem with early goga. It was just like yeah, the loudest, danciest, like no moment of quiet.

At all, just like yeah, and this is something that is forgotten I think by the by potentially some younger fans of Gaga is that the initial glam was Indie glam. Gaga was Santa Goold, but then took it a step further.

I can't follow you there.

It was you mean like the visual sequence, it's sequence, but it's dirty. Mm hm, you know what I mean. It's a reaction.

It was American apparel.

It was American apparel.

Yes, it was a reaction to the previous couple of years of like intense folkdom.

Yes, you know, it was like a folk.

Folk heavy Bush years led way to kind of glitterphonic Obama years.

Yes, and then but yeah, but then the glitter was not it's not worth dwell on it. No, I think we have to. I think there was a chance to embrace the glitter. But but people were R two. I don't think Obama was glitter. I think Obama on the.

I didn't say that Obama was glitter.

I said I don't think Obama. You know, there's on the one side of things, you have a just a single leather boot, and on the other side, you have a budget of glitter, and I think Obama went for the boot more than the glitter. Well, so that we get here, the next track is Killer Killer, so Killer.

Is obviously the next single. Yeah, because she performed on SNL. I personally, you know, here's what I'm gonna say. I think every time I talk about a song, I'm gonna start by saying I personally really like it. So you know, I think fans may think I'm not critical enough, and that's okay. But this song is sort of Prince Bowie and but with classic little Gaga isms, and I think it At first I was like, jaw on the floor, this is so corny, and then it's really won me over.

I respect that. I yeah, I mean, well, the Fame reference is so hardcore in it that it really took me by surprise, I gotta say. But I like the S and L performance. I thought it was cool and like I liked the CCTV kind of moment of it, and yeah, I give it a couple of T shirts.

Yeah, I give it a couple of T shirts. Once again, she's going back to themes of murder and death and killing, and yeah, I.

Think kill a h is quite funny. I think I love so who is that? So? Who is that? I mean, I just love the name. I love the saying featuring.

Gas and he's French.

He's a French DJ producer. So pretty much do you know who Gin is? Amy?

Amy?

I know they're a legendary producer, French producer.

Are they legendary?

That's what I hear.

Okay, many many of my sources are saying that Gasoppelstein is quite legendary mm hmm in the French DJing and producing space. Okay, yeah, So Amy, I feel almost that you're beating around the bush. Do you not enjoy the song?

And also, Amy, can I ask something like, yeah, what, I don't know? There is something deeper about this album? And I actually there is something. Here's what it seems, here's what all right, Here's how I feel about Gaga at this stage. All right, I almost feel like that moment when things are so dire that you're not allowed to criticize the Democrats.

Oh my god, I think that it is.

There is something culturally speaking, I have to we our community has to hold on to Gaga so much right now that it feels unethical even if I do have an issue with one of these songs Drift, and if I potentially have an opinion regarding the reheating of Nachos, that this is not the time to be critical in the same way that when it is time to be united and resistant coalition build, I shouldn't be making fun of Nancy Pelosi.

Wow, I think that's scaring me.

What do you think of that?

I think, I, well, I think that's probably true. I think I'm going back and forth with this thing where it's like we're talking about getting older and talking about this album, and I think I keep going back and forth about what it means for a pop album to be resonant to me or not at this stage in life, and I don't think that the album's note this is why I don't open up.

Come on, this is why I don't up.

We were getting somewhere, getting I'm getting amy to say that to address the elephant in the room and you're gonna go and do that life am ignoring Amy?

What's after Killa Zombie Boy and see Zombie Boy?

I love I love Zombie Boy.

I love Zombie Boy. I love.

So it reminds me of nights I've had at the Standard.

Wow.

Yeah yeah, I mean, you know, Lady Gaga grew up in the Standard, like pretty much.

That was her whole life from the Standard Hotel.

Yeah, you know, going to the Standard, going to the bar at the Standard.

I do like a twenty tens version of the Chelsea Hotel where instead of you know, Patty Smith, it's like it's literally like all the people that were at Pitchfork Fest, but they're like being put up at the Standard. Well, they're all like honestly doing fine financially. They're just sort of like partying at the bar.

Yeah, I mean if you weren't. What's the bar called at the Standard.

Top of the the boom Boom Rooms, the Boo.

Boom Boom Room. Yeah.

Yeah, it made me think of the Boom Boom Room.

Yeah. I'm I think some the funny thing about like kill a Zombie Boy disease, Like, I think it is funny. Part of me is like did you intend for this to be a Halloween album? And just like, uh, well that is the dark pop it all.

Yeah, and also literal yeah, and well she's literal pretty literal. I mean for her fantasy in front of me, like you know you.

Even die with a smile, that is also Halloween. Even it's much more of a you know, uber song, target song, Uh brand it like abric is magic.

Album.

I'm holy realizing it's a Halloween album.

Well, I do think that the part of the the imagery around the album is talking about this thing. I think we're maybe struggling to articulate it, and maybe we're not, but it's just sort of like this the resuscitation of Gaga, it's itself herself, like the the the Gaga of her life is like this sort of like endless combative resuscitation, this like coming back from the dead and all this

Do you know what I mean?

Like and wanting to be like a alive you are, so.

Rebirth is constant death is so true. It's not like you are reborn and you're stronger than ever. You're still carrying the weight of having just died.

Well or yeah, you're meant to sort of ask what you take.

With you exactly. And also you know, a rebirth can doesn't can be a zombiefide rebirth, I mean a zombie is in a sense undead, is in a sense alive. And you know, to go from colors in chromatica to black and white in Mayhem, there's a symbolism there as well.

And what do you think that is that we've lost the color, that we've lost the color, folks, we've lost the color.

Well, I wonder if there's kind of like an inverse. It makes me think of you know, I think this album we're talking about how referential it is. It's very intentional. I think that it's this referential all these different iterations, and I think about the Fame Monster what that meant, the departure that it had through that darker imagery and the monster stuff, and there was a lot of like animation,

And also, both The Fame Monster and Mayhem are Halloween albums because the Fame Monster also played with themes of monsters, zombies, et cetera. And by the way, the Fame was color and the Fame Monster was black and white, just like Chrematica was color and Mayhem is black and white.

Wow, And you can't argue with that. But what do you think Born this Way is? Because there's color and black and white.

I think Born this Way is, like, isn't even part of this conversation really, because to me, Born this Way is like Gaga at her most commercial. I'm not saying that in a negative way, like there are great songs and Born this Way.

But Sam just heard alarm bells Gaga.

Gaga at that point was the number one pop star and she released Born this Way. It's a different thing, but.

She also it's a bit of a like. I think this actually does relate to Born this Way because it's so like, look how many genres I can do. I think Born this Way was very like, this is gonna be a Bruce Springsteen song, this is German dance, this is country, and I think Mayhem is like that a lot.

That's actually a very good point. So in a sense, in a sense that what's being reheated is the eclecticism. It's not like each song is reheating different.

Different I just feel like I created a monster.

I'm not saying the word so referential, but I'm gonna say the word.

I think. I think honestly, that's what feels most refreshing about the album as a whole is the eclecticness, because now everything is so market tested and so like, this album is about blank. This album is like my nineties house blank. This album is for this, and this is like I'm I'm everything at once, and it's like actually very confusing, and I'm like, wow, this actually makes it feel refreshing.

That is the only constant.

Yeah, and that is what pop like was in the I don't know nineties and early odd It's like pop was in fact that the criticism of it was that it lacked cohesion and it lacked a coherent vision, and it was just like an album for a pop star was just a series of singles or a series of songs that could be played without any context. That was a criticism of it. And to make an album like Ray of Light or even something even more cohesive in the real life, like something that's like a concept album

Yeah.

Yeah, I think that's part of the game. I think I mean you, I think you're you're sort of stuck as a pop star either to be like like intentionally anti narrative or you have to build the world, you know, And I do like what you said that. I do think of a constant part of of Goga's work is that she's always doing something different than anyone anticipates, which I think is like how I've met this album where I'm like, oh, it's completely different than what I thought

Over, you know, Yeah, I do know.

Should we go to the next track? So the naract is love Drug?

Yeah, so now this is I mean, so it's love Drug.

So pretty much it's going to go ahead.

And beard of love.

You've heard of drug, heard of love, heard of love games.

And still love drug Drug.

And I actually like this one.

I like it too, let's start there. I like this as well, although I'm going to listen to it on my headphones really quickly so I can that doesn't feel remember exactly, I'm gonna say something that Amy's gonna get mad at me for. And what is it?

I don't want to get mad at you, just so you know, you just do stuff that is makes me mad.

Okay. On first listening. I was really close listening to everything this, I was like, what does this remind me of? What does this remind me of? Katie Perry's I Kissed a Girl.

I've seen people saying that I didn't really like hear that on first listen, but I get that. I mean, there's similar.

D It's very like it felt so wrong, it felt so right, don't mean, and it's like very similar. You know, it's not illegal. Perry doesn't own that, but I I was a lot of this album was like I kept being like, what is that? It's so familiar, but it's just like a little bit off. Let's run through the tracks. We're gonna move quickly, okay, because because we want to talk broader and okay. So how Bad do you Want Me?

I mean I was I was like barely awake listening to the album for the first time it came on. It was catchy to me. I texted Sam, oh my god, I love how Bad do you Want Me? And he was like the Taylor Swift song, and I had no idea what he was talking about, and then I guess I looked it up and what is the story there?

Well, I think it's a rumor that she like did background vocals on it or something fake. I mean, but I mean it just sounds.

Identical, sounds like a Taylor Swift punk but it also sounds like Taylor Swift song by way of Gaga in the way that you know. I don't know, Uh, Edge of Glory is that type of song by way of Gaga?

Yeah, it's just as like I'm just I look forward to one day finding peace with my relationship with Taylor Swift, but today is not that day.

You're just allergic to that sound, so you can't let it into your heart.

Exactly interesting.

I think it also has a little bit of the Cure in it, not the band but the song.

Yes, although funny made.

A connection now that it had references to the cure of the band. I think this would be a perfect episode for me.

Okay, let's move on to the next track, Don't Call Tonight. This is sort of reheating Alejandro's nachos.

Oh oh oh, I see what you mean, Like a don't call tonight, don't call tonight. But there's also it made me also think of I'm not having fun tonight. Yeah, another song one tonight in it.

Tonight is such a the.

Idea of tonight really looms large and poppys.

We'll talk about the concept of time.

I could have a whole another episode talking about the concept of tonight.

No, but truly, the concept of tonight is one of the most powerful, is one of the most powerful concepts because to talk about the passage of time, it's the idea of tonight is both now and not now. It is tonight, it's coming, but it's basically already.

Happening, and it's it's almost already over.

Yes, exactly.

Oh my god. The temporariness of it is really scary.

It has this dual meaning where you can actually it can be morning and you can be talking about tonight and it's in the future, and it can be tonight and you can be like, I'm having fun tonight currently it denotes both future and present.

Yeah, I think it's an a compression of like actualizing on your desires. It's like you've got about eight hours, twelve hours, maybe fifteen, sixteen hours if you stay up, stay up all night, which becomes dawn, which Sam can speak to Donald cormatica later. But you know what I mean, you have you have a certain amount of time in which you can make the most of things. And that is a really like you know, that has a lot of charge to it in a pop pop writing landscape.

It's also it's so.

It's such a short amount of time. It's like, make the most of tonight, like make the most of the night. But also it is infinite, you know. It's it's like it's.

Forever tonight, will last forever or most start tonight?

Yeah, okay.

Shadow of a Man, shadow of a Man?

You love shadow of a Man?

I heard Shadow of a Man. This is a it's hard to do. We should I want to continue rushing, but damn Shadow of a Man is crazy to reheat. Michael Jackson's natchos in like in such a way, like the production. Her voice sounds like Michael in a way that is jaw dropping. My jaw was on the floor picking up crumbs because it sounds so much like Michael, and I I was, you know, gagged in a positive sense. I think this song is so slay. I think it's so crazy and I loved it.

I loved it too, and I saw that it was that she had used it in like Chromatica or something at the CHROMATICA Ball or something.

She used the little intro sound.

Yeah, and when it's like, it doesn't.

Feel fair that you guys are re listening to it during the app.

And I'm sorry I had to. I literally have not remembered a single song that we have talked. Really, yes, I mean I I and I listened to the album multiple times. I tried to prepare we're saying the title of each song. I have no idea what we're talking about. This was at the end of Man, Yeah, it is very okay, Okay, I'm getting the Michael Jackson.

Yes, I do think about how she has his clothes a lot and what that must be like she has his clothes. Yeah, she like bought a bunch of his clothes.

Oh, I didn't know that, but yeah. I remember watching the Chromatica Ball tour video and it ends with like, Lady Gaga, We'll return and it plays the very small snippet from the beginning of this song, which is funny. Then okay, we love what is the Beast? The Beast is a ballad that to me is the I think. Here's what I'll say. I think it works in the context of the album, but to me, it's the one song where I'm like, I'm okay.

Okay, and then lade ahead.

Oh that's it, Okay, go ahead and we'll leave it there. Blade of.

Blade of Grass, Okay, here's here's a okay, Amy, get ready to scream. Guess who's nachos? This is reheating. Oh. I was listening to this and I was like, this sounds like something. It sounds like cold Play. Fuck, what's it called? Uh? Is it Viva la Vida? Yes, it's Viva. It's cold Play, Viva la Vida, Walk.

Me through, Walk me through.

So it's like.

Like I know, oh, I know Viva.

I know. So Plade of Grass is like the same thing. It's like like that. It's like slower, but I have to play it to listen to it to hear it.

Wait into the mic or is that going to explode everything?

I can play it unto the mic because I didn't.

Hear Viva Avida like that.

Let's see done? Do Wait?

Are we both playing it? What is behind you? Huge?

Roussellum bells ring and I get that. I get that, actually totally it did. And by the way, in about four months, it's going to be cold Playcore.

Oh calling it?

Now, what did you say?

I said?

I said in four months time, it's going to be cold Play Core.

In four months time. Set your cows now talk about the passage of time. Four months four months?

Like, whenever I do this podcast, I'm like, I'm an owl.

You insult we're insulting you.

No, No, I just feel like I speak and complete and comprehensible redlds, but a lot that has to understand me.

You are.

What's funny about what you said is it's exactly the kind of thing we would say. But then like it would, it's so ice to be like in four months, cold plays making a comeback. But then you said it and we're acting like you're insane.

I feel like I feel like this is a critical part.

You're literally coming at us and you're like, yeah, I'm speaking your language, like in four months it's Coldplay court and.

We're like, what the fuck is she talking? So July July, we will be seeing Coldplay core. People will be blasting yellow at the fourth of July party.

I do think. I do think that there's something so down the middle about Cold Play, and that is sort of where we're headed.

I think I just think there's going to be sounds. I think Benson Boone in a way is like a precursor to Cold Blake. But he's too big of a voice.

I guess maybe too big a voice there, because there will be an Indie Benson Boone. There will be like somebody being like, I can be indie and still be anthemic, and that's how we get to Cold Yes, imagine Dagons.

So yeah, the Levita in a Blade of Grass.

But that.

People are saying that this is a worst song on the album.

What Beast is the worst song by far.

I had trouble with the Beast, but I also, you know what I liked about the Beast. I know we're not talking about the Beast, but I really liked how I like that little like I thought that was sure, sure that's old, but anyway, Yeah, she's gonna have these. She's gonna have big, big ballads that are sort of the you know, I think a piano ballad is essentially her soul, whether yes, whether you wanted to.

Go, does the Beast have what it takes. I mean, we haven't gotten a You and I in a while.

Well, I think these are supposed to be sort of in if we're doing an umbrella of the types of songs she does, I think those fit underneath a little bit. I mean, she does a piano ballad about love, like she's got a lot of those, and I think these are part of that.

Blade of grass is very thousand doves coded to me, That's that was my first thought too.

In fact, I think I would almost proposition that we change our rating system from zero to one thousand doves to zero to one thousand blades of grass.

I think it's a genius move, and I think moving forward, you know, save for the pre recorded episodes that we have coming out the next few weeks, we will be changing it to blades of zero to one thousand blades of grass.

And it's funny because you guys didn't prepare straight shooters for me, and so I don't even really get to even be a part of that, which is kind of also how I feel sometimes doing.

It's so interesting because we put you on such a pedestal like this is a very special Yeah, Like to me, I'm like this is the this is we're interrupting our normal programming because you know, a queen has entered the chat, and yet you are thinking of it as us disrespecting or something.

I feel yeah, like a plastic doll. No, I'm kidding, I'm kidding, But what do.

You think about the Because to me, something interesting about Blade of Grass is compared to all the other titles and all the other visual motifs that we're seeing, a Blade of Grass is very different. It's actually not. It's not Halloween coded.

No, well, it's got a story behind it, the Blade of Grass.

Oh, the story?

Yeah, what's the Blade of Grass story?

I feel like this is the only thing I've ever learned in the history of learning things, which is that she she talked about being proposed to by her fiance, Michael, and he asked how to do it, and she was like, just take a blade of grass and wrap around my finger.

Oh.

So this is a classic Gaga where I'm like, that's that's a lie. Like, that's a lie.

But don't you think, like having a bladi of grass around your finger is so cool? It's so kindergarten core, which was in the next five months.

Yeah, kindergarten Yeah, after cold Play, Well, it's going to be coldly into kindergarten core.

Yeah, yeah, it's gonna be kindergarten fall, like everyone's going to be back to school. I guess.

Nailed it.

And then die with a smile.

Well, I will say I was shocked, much like everybody else, to see that it actually made some kind of sense on the record.

Me too, I think it makes a lot of sense in the context. Yeah, and I could have never predicted that. Not in my.

Wildest dreams could I ever think a song such as this could flow so perfectly into the opus that is may Ham, which I believe it's may Ham Mayhm.

Yes, yes, yes, okay, so okay, gone through the album.

We've gone through the whole album. Here's a straight thought regarding Michael. I think it's funny that people are talking about Gaga in context of bear community. People are saying that Michael is a bear, that she's one of us, that she likes bears in a way that I think is so funny because because also I actually do think it's charming and like refreshing that she's just like found a like average guy, like looking like he's like not like smelt or like fifteen years younger or something.

She has also been sort of normal looking though, because she's not someone who has ever gone for the hospitals and the roster, has she.

What do you think is on Hanks?

Yeah, no, that's a good question. I actually think so people are so hungry for a normal guy because they don't exist anywhere, right, This.

Is what I mean.

I think this is kind of the normal undercurrent we're talking about.

And I actually think you know who's a real pioneer there is Lana del Rey. Well, I mean I think she opened the doors. Yes, no, there's no time, but she. I think the ultimate fetish for straight women, white straight white women especially, the ultimate fetish is a normal guy because it's mean you don't find anymore because on the one hand, you have you know, uh, you know, you have sort of brook guys like Brooklyn fat men'swear guys.

Pat, I don't know you said Brooklyn FAF.

I did, I said Brooklyn men'swear guys. I did not said something with.

An F say the letter like like you were British like faff about that too?

What was Brooklyn faf Brooklyn I, I doesn't want to make On the one side of things, you have Brooklyn men'swear, you know, this sort of like fuck boy. And then on the other side of things we have in cells. And so those are the two options for women currently and so there's this well they are trying to find who is the normal one? Who is the normal one in the middle.

I think there's so many more veret of weird guys you didn't touch on.

I mean, I guess again fill in the blanks.

I think, what about the guys that have sort of the Seneca profile pictures and and the people that.

Streamers And yes there's streamers, Christian photographers.

Christian photographers, Christian.

There's still the poets. Of course there are, of course. Something I didn't mention is the so called finance bro. That's a big archetype. They do exist to this day and age is the finance bro. There's of course a crypto bro. Yeah, but again all these what they have in common is that they're not normal, and so women are desperate for something that's down the line. Well, he's a tech guy, isn't he he's a tech guy.

Yeah.

Next, let's go over the track list again. Disease, I love that shit, Aberkada do it again? Great, Pardon to Beaton. I love those chips.

Next, do we let's talk broad okay, broad strokes. What do we think? I think personally, I want to say I'm standing. I think I was uh. I think it's settling really nicely with me, where at first I was like, hold on, this is not what I was expecting, And now I'm finding it to be so fun. I'm finding part of the charm to be her confidence in it and her like joy in it, where she doesn't seem like she's saying like do you like this? Like she's saying like I like this, and that is all that matters.

There's no desperation.

That's what I mean about her embracing like an adulthood.

Yeah, I agree. I do think it's really nice for the community to come together. I've like actually mostly just enjoyed this weekend and being like everyone's talking about it, everyone's like having their little opinion, and it's so fun to be like, God, yeah, Page, I think.

That's what I've been trying to say this whole time, where it's like having everybody everyone having their little opinion is like essentially what we're trying to do, what we're trying to enjoy, you know what I mean, like the rock world kind of congregating under I just wanted to drop in and check in about what it even means to sort of be a fan in this moment in time.

I know, how do you guys feel about aging?

About aging?

Yeah?

If I do it anyway like Gaga, it'll be a total victory.

Well, I do feel I want to say, like I find it interesting. Part of the Passage of Time element is that it is fun to see how she approaches pop music because I'm you know, as silly people. I'm sort of like, how do I approach Like when I hear a Tate McCray song, I'm like, what is my emotion supposed to be? Like? Am I supposed to love this? And be like I stand Tate McCrae, Where's my emotion

That's genius yep, And actually like she has done both. She pretended she was one hundred with Tony Bennett and with her Oscar campaign she pretended she was twenty two. Kind of sorry, but like with parts of Gramatica, with parts of even just like her with Aria I Listen, I Love rain on Me, but there was something childlike

Yeah, I find that to be good. I think.

Yeah, any response, I was gonna ask a question about if you could design an album, if you could design a either a Gaga album, I guess, or like a pop star which you would feel like lifted up and electrified by by this combination of things that they did, what would it be?

So your question is what would our her dream pop STARB Is that so crazy?

I'm not. I didn't say.

It's so crazy.

Yeah, sort of you were like, okay, wow, here's this, here's this.

They do this type of She's like this nine feet.

Tall, right. She has Whitney Houston's vocals, got it writing, but she actually doesn't use them.

She does all auto tune. It sounds really bad. It's like Kim Petra's auto tune.

But she has a voice.

She has she has a voice.

She just saying karaoke. You would be shocked. But she refuses on principle to do that when she gets into the studio.

I'm gonna say something really controversial. Her hair it's ombre, it's ombre.

So and when we're talking about what kind of colors, we're talking brown to blonde.

Yeah, yeah, the traditional brass blonde.

And she's nine nine feet tall with ombray beach waves.

At hell, those beach waves are going straight down, like down to her anger as to her ass, nine foot beach waves from her head down to her ankles.

Got it.

She has the voice of an angel, but you literally wouldn't know it. In fact, everyone is singing. She sounds she clearly like has no vocal talent. That's what she always has autotune.

There is no one even the controversy about her ability to sing. But secretly she s.

But and she as part of her as part of her act, like as part of her performance and her like you know, performance of self. She she is not revealing that she can sing.

And she like every time she has a live performance where she's like I'm doing like we're all like, a fly flies into her mouth and she like, and so people think she can't sing, like there's no proof that she can sing.

Singing live, she's singing singing into an autotune mic.

And so it like she's like, you know, it's like not beating the can't sing allegations, I fear, and actually there are.

All these yeah, and there are all these like bootlegs. It's like people that have been in the studio with her know she can sing, and so there's like all these rumors like, yeah, there's these are the real vocals to Sound of Change, but no one Sound of Changes the album. It's one of the singles, but it was one of the less successful ones.

So so she's okay, So I'm just saying the album, Okay.

This is no the album.

The album is called critically back, two steps back.

Okay, Now, keep in mind, as you agree on that this is like the biggest album, it's her. I would say it's her. It's it's cementing her as part of a great lineage of pop acts, and it's critically and.

You have to it's like one of those things where like if you try to explain it to like a child, they're like, I don't see why this was good, and you're like, trust me.

So what is that two steps back?

It's referencing a famous review of one of her other albums. That's saying she took one step forward, two steps back. Who wrote that pitch four, The New York Times. New York Times wrote it, amy, by the.

Way, it's not so wild to even suggest that Pitchfork could be doing that, since they review pop albums.

By the way, no, I know, but this is I mean, in this be so she's not commenting on Pitchfork like that would.

Be so, by the way, I think you, I think you fundamentally misunderstand the media landscape. But pitchforks like whatever. Okay, okay, So New York Times said once at four two steps back, she's coming out swinging with this album. What are the sounds that we're hearing.

Well, it's obviously electroclash.

I hear electric clash.

I'm hearing electroclash. I mean it's it's it has some euro dance elements.

It's eurodance means heavy metal.

One thing is that she's always seen at clubs, like she actually does go out.

Okay, always at clubs Georgia anything.

I'm doing a mad because she's of course nine feet tall, so she it's like she can't really hide from the paparazzi.

Yeah, she is polyamorous, m hmm, bisexual.

Bisexual, and she does. She's she says controversial things like she'll like randomly say like the f slur, but it's like she kind of can. It's like weird, she kind of can. But she also in her normal life is like maybe super trad and like, isn't she's polytrad. She's polytrad. Yeah,

She's not fashion. She is she she is fashion.

It's complicated. She'll wear like a large nightgown.

So does that answer your question?

Yeah, well I'm just tallying it up and I'm crunching the numbers.

So it's the result of the number.

Well, I I really, I really didn't plan this, and I don't mean to even be saying this, but you have described more than not Lady Gaga herself, and I'm not even exaggerating or reaching here has a voice, but doesn't have a voice. She's I mean, being five foot tall is a lot like being nine foot's controversial singing live fly in her throat. I think that happens sort.

Of being secretly tad. I definitely think Gaga really wants a husband.

I mean you've seen her at home, right, so.

Just think the qualities you've touched on here are qualities of the woman herself.

Well, that's huge. I mean I think that time will keep on passing and that Gaga will keep keep on standing, and I'm so curious as to how she'll reflect on us next time.

I agree. Yeah, God bless her, God bless her.

Shout out to Mayhem. I you know, life is chaos and you really prove that. Yeah, I'm so glad the community can come together. And being in your thirties is actually rocks.

I wish I knew, but it was like.

Yeah, you're forty seven, right, you skipped that.

And I just want to say, go out there and reheat your own nachos because you deserve it.

Amy does that make you mad?

No, it doesn't, It doesn't at all. And yeah, this was really fun and I want to say thank you for having me because I know we can have a little fun here and there. But I'm honored to do this with you guys. And yeah, I don't know, it feels sometimes like what we say about this could have real geopolitical impacts.

So it will.

Yeah, sometimes I can feel, yeah, like a lot on the line. But when I'm with you guys, I think I feel safe.

Blade of Grass, And it's the honor to have you on and to discuss this, this artist and this artwork. You have incredible insights and always have and always will. And we can't wait to have you back when we don't need to discuss yeah, and some of the most important pieces of work of all time and can just gab and.

Goof Yeah, what's your straight topic going to be next time?

Go my straight topic for next time?

Hot sauce, Hot sauce. All right, huge, love that, See you in.

Cold Play Summer.

See you in cold Play Summer.

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Stradia Lab is a production by Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network and iHeart podcasts.

Created and hosted by George Severis and Sam Taggart.

Executive produced by Will Ferrell, Han Soni and Olivia Aguilar. Co produced by Bai Wang, Edited and engineered by Adam Avalos. Artwork by Michael Fails and Matt Grubg. Theme music by Ben Kling