06: The Push and Pull of Love | Coaching Call with Alex

  Hello and welcome to Speak Honest. I am your host and certified relationship coach, Jennifer Noble. It has been my passion for over a decade to help women like you heal. What's been holding you back from having the relationships you deserve? Are you struggling with a relationship where you can't seem to voice your emotions, needs, and boundaries without having it blow up in your face?

Then you have found the right podcast, my friend. Get ready for practical tips, empowering truths, and honest conversations. Now let's dive in. 

Hello everyone. I'm so excited for this episode, but I do want to give a heads up that it is a bit of a long one. It was just that I noticed that Alex in telling her story really needed to be and feel heard. So there was a lot of times that I let her run on, whereas typically I would cut off a client if I needed to.

But I just really felt like, and because I had worked with Alex previously, I knew that she had this wound around being unheard, and I knew that she needed to be able to be heard. So yes, it's a long one, but I still think it's gonna be Really great. And really impactful, especially if you're someone that's been struggling with an on again, off again relationship, because wow, does Alex have a lot of insights around this.

So without further ado, let's dive in. 

Hi everyone. On today's call, we have Alex with us. Alex, why don't you go ahead and share with me, like what your situation is or what's triggering you lately, or if there's a goal you want to accomplish. 

  So. I'm feeling confused between how to hold, I don't know if it's holding space or just like holding these two very opposite things that I feel towards  my relationship.

There's a lot of resentment, hurt, pain,  especially right now, I feel like we're in a moment where I'm being stonewalled.  The end.  This has been a pattern, someone, but just for the past year, it's happened.  Well, it's happened two times really last year, exactly the same time. And then this year, um, and then, so that's like the one side of things and then the other side of things, um, is obviously there's like good parts and good moments and love, and  I realized that it's hard for me to understand what it, what to make of all of it because I  Here, and I believe, and I understand that we create our reality, and so I can see that if I'm focusing on this good stuff, I feel the love, I feel the good, and I feel forgiveness, and I feel understanding, especially through my work with, like, attachment theory, and so forth, I understand, like, the mechanism, sort of, of why the stonewalling is happening, I understand  where, kind of, it, you Began like my contribution to it, but then it's really hard for me to not be in the hurt and anger and pain and resentment  and also the fear of  what is going on his end.

Am I going to be left after this?  Has he left me without telling me that we're broken up? Has he, like, you know, decided to walk away?  Cause he, I feel like he definitely has a viewpoint of defeatedness in our relationship  and not really, Neither of us are really good at problem solving and conflict direction and from the opposite  opposite sides.

Yeah, and I also honestly, I don't really know anymore what attachment style he is. I know I'm fearful avoidant, even though with him, I'm very anxious, but also I push and I get volatile. So I know I'm fearful, but with him, I thought he was dismissive,  but I honestly. I don't know, sometimes I question, especially looking back at our whole history, he's definitely leaning strong dismissive, but I, you could say, like, if you meet me now or, you know, at certain points, you could say I'm like anxious.

I don't know. And I don't know if that makes even a huge difference because we're clearly in the  polarized parts right now anyways. 

  Yeah, it can, depending on like how we want to understand them later. But maybe we can dive into that in a little bit too. Let me ask a couple, like, clarifying questions.

Remind me again how long have you guys been together? 

 Sorry, I chew my water.  Especially under stress.  Almost six years in November.  Although we Yeah, sorry. We have been broken up. So 2019,  we weren't really together.  2020, we weren't really together. We were talking and especially 2020. I mean, 2020 was crazy for all of us when we were, but we weren't officially back together until like 2021.

So,  yeah. And then we also broke up in this spring for three months.  And we always sort of like have this like  ambiguousness to pulling away and getting back on track. Like it's never really straight. Like, okay, now we're together. Now we're,  except for like, um, You know, the times that we were, we mentioned breakup and stuff.

  Okay. So when it's ambiguous, what is it more, is it more kind of like this? Like someone's just not reaching out to the other person? No, usually 

 we've talked all, I mean, every September we have had, and we fight two weeks where we haven't talked. But we've also generally not been together since September.

The stonewalling and the not talking has only happened last September and this September. It's more so just like you feel, you know, like a distance or pulling away, not really spending time together. It's more so, I guess, like  when we get back together, that's more ambiguous. It goes like more.  In a way organic, but also not at the same time.

  Okay. And so it's, so in 2019 and 2020, you weren't together and then it looks like you had about three, well, two years then after that, right? So 21, 22, 23, I think when you count those, it's two years. And so before that, uh, you, so you've kind of been together since 2017. Am I hearing that correctly? Right.

Okay. And what was it like in those first couple of years? 

  Very interesting. And I'm reflecting lately a lot and realizing my avoidedness  back in the day. Yeah. So we met, we weren't, we didn't meet like dating, dating side, dating wise. We met, we were in a class together. And I think two months after we went on our first date, it was pretty sudden, but.

They definitely, like, weak. I could feel it. I think we could feel it. But yeah, it was, it was,  I was actually reflecting on this today. I felt like we both, I feel now that we both had this, like, Oh, this is just going to be fun. But from a place for me, from a place of not trusting that I can be safe to  open up and be loved.

And I felt like, Oh, he's just going to break my heart. Anyways, Uh, so I'm just going to have fun with this, he's a player, so you know, I'm not going to take it seriously.  And it was kind of like that for the first few months, even through that first, like, I think we were six months together until the first breakup.

Yeah, it was like November to July. That we were together. But even in the meantime, I was very much say, at least six times I've said in that period of time, like, if you aren't serious, just, we can be friends or like, let's just, you know, stop.  And he would be very comfortable with, again, the ambiguousness of where we were, um, not truly wanting to like jump in completely,  but definitely not wanting to come out completely.

And he was holding on to me. I was holding on to him, but we were both not going in.  I was definitely going in more. And for me, it was, cause this might be irrelevant, I don't know. I was  bringing this up a month into it. Again, we knew each other a little bit before, but a month in, I said, Hey, like, this is starting to be serious.

I'm really serious about this. You know, like it doesn't mean that we have right now to jump into completely, but like if you also feel serious and kind of exclusive, then this is where I'm at. If not, let's just be friends because this is a good time to, to like walk away and be friends. And he kissed me.

He didn't say anything. He just kissed me as I was like, okay, I guess that's what that means. 

  Okay, that's good. So that's kind of the first  Like, first incident where you really understood where he couldn't, like, give you necessarily the words you're looking for, but you had an action that you then gave meaning to.

  Yeah, and that's definitely been us where he puts more into actions and I need the words and I don't feel good without the words.  Yeah, if you're showing me you love me, that doesn't mean that much. I 

 need to worry. Yeah. And if you're saying you love me, but you're not showing me you love me, you also need the actions, right?

So it's well, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. No, but I say that to say, I mean, it's a, it's a, it's exactly right in relationships, right? We want our words and our actions to align. We can't be all one or all the other because then it's easy enough to say, well, I never said that. Right. Like I never said I wanted to be together.

I just kissed you, but you thought that yourself, right? I'm not saying he said that, but definitely other people have those, you know, situations. Yeah. Which is very, very classic dismissive avoidant to not actually have to say,  right. Like I want this kind of thing. It's more, let me just give you the thing.

I think you want to hear or, or not even hear, excuse me, like the thing I think you want to like, just get me back into a happy place of your. You know, love and affection. So that makes total sense.  Go on. Yeah. And 

 I remember him saying something. We had this conversation that was, um,  talking about how we both wanted to take it slow, but for opposite reasons. 

For me, it was because others  changed their minds.  And then for him, it was that he changed his mind and realizes that, Oh, this person is not really what I wanted, which was like really tough to hear. But I was like, Oh, well, I guess we're sort of in the same boat, but just different ends of the boat.  But yeah, 

  and I think that makes a lot of sense.

So I know for your journey, you learned about attachment styles more like in 2020 or 2021. Is that right? Yeah. So when you guys first got together and you hear this in 2017, you have no idea what this means. But like nowadays, you could easily like if you hear someone come out of their mouth, Oh, others often change their minds on me and you hear someone else say, Oh, I often change my mind.

It's like immediately you can pick up on the dynamic that is about to go down in this relationship, right? 

  Like I wish I could take like a time machine back. Oh my gosh. Either we would have been together and happy now or like not but it would have been so much easier 

 Time machines to fix relationships would be the greatest thing I could ever make.

I totally agree. All the things that I have done wrong in relationships that I just look back on. I'm like, well, if I just knew this, right. But that's why it's like my favorite quote is always, you know, of course we did the best we could with the tools we had at the time. Right. That's Brené. Brené Brown always loves to say that.

I'm sure she got it from somewhere, but.  So she escaped 

 and she started licking her paws and she's not allowed to do that. 

That's 

 perfect. All right.  Aw, she's so sweet. Um, is she like a golden doodle? 

  Uh, Australian Shepherd Doodle. Oh, wow, okay. 

  I don't even know what they're calling them now. I cut this all out, so I'll put a little thing in. Let me get started again then.  Okay, so we have kind of like an idea. Sounds like Sounds like a bit of a rocky relationship, right?

Like the on, on again, off again, you know, classic kind of cycle of an AA and a DA kind of thing, kind of coming together and going away and all this stuff.  And also you're in it and you know, that's really hard. And I hear you in terms of saying like, you have so much, you guys also have so much invested in one another,  right?

You have been six years at least together on and off of some sort going on. And it sounds like right now something has happened where he's stonewalling you now. Like, is it like, Did you guys get in a fight? What do you want to talk a little bit about what happened there? 

 I do because that's also something that is hard to talk about with family or friends because  You know, they kind of only like take your son's script or something.

And I'm like, no, but listen,  

  the one time I don't want validation guys, come on.  

  So I was wrong. And it's not clear cut like that, obviously, you know, it takes two. And it's been also, I think, as a result of all of the dynamic. And I think that's the  so I'll get right into it in like a second. But before I say that, reflecting on it after.

Um, because this happened during the weekend, reflecting on it after I realized, um, how much  like  we don't put that much focus on the good times and the good things and creating the good things sort of,  and it's affecting. So, but anyway, so for one, I realized there's a pattern. It happened last year and it happened this year.

We  He invests more or, you know, more than in the past years. And I feel it, I relax like, Oh, he's showing up and he's like interested. I get like. more secure. And, and then I also have the,  but the shoe will drop,  but I'll, I'll handle it. I'll be fine. And the shoe drops like a day later after I had that thought, literally.

And then, um, of him wanting just a little bit of space, like wanting to take the weekend off from like hanging out or, Hey, can we hang out later tomorrow instead of, you know, earlier in the day or whatever, there's like some sort of always some distancing.  Uh, or not technique, obviously, he's not doing it on purpose, you know,  so then I freak out even though I told myself to not freak out because I sort of learned, hey, this can happen, subconscious comfort zone, blah, blah,  and then I can't get out of that freak out.

Last year, or in the spring, the reason we broke up was because I went, like, 10, level 10, triggered, like, I was dying, like, I was being abandoned, I didn't matter. And of course, like in a matter of like a day or not even, I was like, Oh, definitely saw the shadow side, like, Oh, cause I'm not there for myself or I don't matter for myself or whatever, but too late.

Right by then.  But this year and last year, it was more, it was like slow burning. I didn't blow up.  And, but he's kept distancing himself. I took it definitely hard. I felt also,  in my mind, the, the script was, but people in relationships shouldn't take time out. They shouldn't spend all weekend or every weekend together or like, what does it mean if he doesn't want to?

It means that, and he's not letting me be there for him. And that's not a relationship and all of these things. And To stick to this year, particularly, I couldn't snap out of it.  I tried, he was  relatively assuring. I definitely was,  like, it was, um, like he was pushing himself past his trigger, like, to be there for me,  um, in compromise, I think he was doing great in compromising, I was having a hard time letting that in and I was really blinded.

To all or nothing thinking, like, no, like you giving me an hour to go for a walk is not the same. It doesn't feel like we're in a relationship because of that. It feels like something's wrong. And  it keeps wanting to run away. And that was like two weeks.  No, a week, sorry, a week. And then we went out. We went  to  make for a weekend with some friends. 

It was our first time ever going out, uh, that way, or going out, going, going away, sort of, weekend, you know, road trip. And, I was like, again, I felt pretty secure right then. He was late, as usual, so I got a little upset, but I let it go.  Lately, we also have been going, so I've  felt that I've been going into fault finding  and I don't know if that's exactly what it is, but I definitely like, we both get really hurt by stupid things like, uh, he wants to have the windows open.

I want the AC to the car, his car. Yeah. I got so triggered on the way to the chip by him not wanting to use cruise control. I think, I'm like, this is not the man for me.  Yeah. 

  Yeah. So, I mean, we, we both know what the flaw finding specifically, it's because there's a really big issue going on underneath.  So flaw finding comes from the resentment that's building up inside of you from the inability to get your needs met or communicate well, or, you know, be able to set boundaries or be able to get what you want.

Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And the wounding that, you know, cause we can't get our needs met. If we have holes in our buckets, right? If we have the wounds preventing us from getting the needs met. So all of that is to say, it makes total sense that you got that you're looking at a man not using cruise control and you're like, what am I doing with my life? 

Because you're not looking at the actual deep down problem here, which is deeper and actually hard. It's the interesting thing about flaw finding is it actually is a really beautiful compass to show us.  What it is that we really want and need and, um, desire in a relationship. And with the flaw finding, if we can dig deeper down into what's actually going on, you might actually find some really big things that are there.

Flaw finding is not always just something that we're doing wrong. Like what I mean, like us as FAs, like it's not always just, Oh, this is another way we're sabotaging our relationship. Right. We're sabotaging the relationship in a different way, which is happening even on the deeper level, which is by not standing up for what we want or not following through with our boundaries or not standing up for what we deserve those kind of things.

So I say that keep going, but I just wanted to kind of like, pipe in with that real quick just to show like, yeah, I mean, that makes sense. Yeah. And we'll dig into why that might be the case.  Yeah, 

 and I think, um, I, I also sort of found something interesting on reflecting on that too. So, yeah, but to stick to, um, the moment,  uh, these moments,  we got to, to the, the place that we were going to.

And I think I was like pretty okay, let go of things, et cetera. And, I mean,  Mike, what do you call that? Not Cinderella.  Like Snow White with all this shit.  Let's see, alright. And,  So we got to the place and then,  and then I,  I got triggered by two things. One, there was someone that just got engaged.  It was a mild trigger, but I've been kind of suffering from like, what am I doing with my life and where is my life going in that sense, but it was mild.

But then someone that we know that hadn't been together, they've been together for like only two years or something. Or even less, they were talking about moving in together, which really triggered me because I'm like, well, we've been together for longer and  he doesn't want to move in with me. We, you know, like he doesn't even want to spend as much time as I want to spend together.

  And then have you guys had that conversation? The move in conversation? 

  Kind of. Yeah, but, uh, yeah, that's it. Has a whole different thing for a different day. Mm hmm. But yeah.  Yeah, we haven't really had it that explicitly, I'll say that. And he was talking with, alright,  someone in the groups, talking about last year when we also weren't talking, and how he and his coworkers went to this, like, Halloween thing.

And it hurt me not because they, that he went and I didn't know at that time, but because he didn't tell me afterwards, like the recap, like, Hey, so while we weren't talking, this is what happened.  And I really shut down. So this is what kind of happens, which is, you know, how I also know I'm not just. I'm anxious, I'm fearful because I shut down and sorry,  I shut down, I get very cold and I wouldn't know that it affects them except that he told me a few years ago that it does.

Mm hmm. I thought like you would even enjoy me just like shutting down emotion and so forth, but it's like he's asked, he said like a while ago, like, do you notice, do you know how much that hurts? Which is like, it was worth coming out of your mouth. It's crazy. 

 Yeah. It's just, that's a really good example of DA's really do feel and how we often consider them like emotionalists.

Robots, right? Um, but they notice, they sense, they see everything. They just rarely bring it up because the vulnerability to do it is just way too much. Yeah, 

 and at that time I knew when he brought that up, I knew about attachment silence and I kind of knew that he was at least leaning strongly that way.

And yeah, I was like, oh wow, this is like, this is big that he said it that way. Yeah. I mean, even for me, it would be kind of a big to say, I guess. I don't know. But anyway, so then after shutting down and kind of being very cold with him and him then retracting, because again, he probably was hurt, but he wasn't going to say it, especially in a group setting right then and there, which is also why I didn't really talk with him.

And I wanted to kind of pull him aside and talk like, Hey, like, you know, I was like aware like something's happening and if we have a conversation, maybe it can all just be squashed,  but I didn't. And we almost had a moment, the person on the trip, one of them like insisted on coming with us. I was like, Oh, this could have been a great time.

We have to drive back. I forgot my ID. 

  And is this just let me get caught up real quick because I don't want to get down in the weeds. If it's okay with you, I'd like to try it. I'm like, no, no, that's okay. Cause I, the thing is, is I'm sitting here completely interested in your story and I'm like, Oh, go on.

Tell me more. And then I realized, oh, wait, we have a purpose here.  You want to like actually like help you because I'm just like, yeah. Let 

 me like, then fast forward 

 to the moment. Was this recently the trip? Is this the trip that happened? This was like two months ago. Okay, so this isn't the catalyst for the stonewalling?

 No, this is. Oh, this is, okay. Because we've been in the stonewalling for two months. 

 Yeah. Oh, okay, so he has And when you say stonewalling as well, let me just get clear. Is it just been like a total ghosting? Right. Okay, and this happened in September. Right. So for two months, you have not heard from him. 

Correct. Or vice versa. Or vice versa. Okay, so are you in a no contact right now? 

  Yeah, I guess that's where we fell into. 

 Yeah. So at, Nani, I don't even necessarily need to know the lead up too much. Is that okay with you if I just kind of ask you a couple clarifying questions to kind of get going on this?

Would that be okay? Or do you really want to finish? 

  I want to say one, one more thing about the, the Catalyst card. So after that,  yeah, stuff happened up and down. What I think was the, the really big point was the drive home where I was basically pushing him away,  pretty much like  daring him to break up. 

Or like wanting to break up again from a lack of me being able to be in the middle of ground of like sharing needs and all in boundaries or more needs. This was, and not like, I was just kind of gone with the trigger, even though I had like a voice in my head, like, Hey, you're tired, you're not thinking straight, you should pause this conversation.

You know, he cares, et cetera. And I just like unleashed it on him. And one of the last things 

 he said.  Was this with someone else in the car as well, as you said? No. Oh, okay. Okay. Go on then. It's 

 just us. Mm hmm. Um, and one of the last things he said was, How much more reassurance do you need? That was his point of view.

And yeah, so that, it was like, definitely like, and I was asking for reassurance and he shut down by that time.  It was a mess. It was like, just a big mess. So I, that's why I understand  his shutting down, feeling very helpless in our relationship. Mm hmm. Is how I interpret it. 

  Was there a specific breakup that happened, or did you get out of that car and he's never contacted you since?

 No, so It was a week of him just not feeling like talking the, the day right after we, so he came back on Sunday, Monday, it was almost normal. He called me after work, which has been something new that he was like calling me after work and stuff. And then when I wasn't available, when I called him,  that's when he started being pulled away, shut down.

He was playing video games, which have like he has done before, but sometimes. He does it and he's still engaged, but he was not just short answers, one word answers, not really sharing. And it was kind of the theme throughout the week until Friday, when he wasn't responding. Wednesday we had, or Thursday we had a conversation, video conversation, and he said, let me come to you.

And this is where it gets kind of like tricky because he said, you know, like in the past times. And he did use like the past times that we've broken up, but he has not said, let's wake up. I want to break up like nothing like that. He just says, I need, I don't feel like talking right now. I don't feel like connecting.

And let me come to you and just give me some space, et cetera. And then that Friday. I texted him or something like, how's your, how did your day go? Or whatever. And he didn't reply. I became a little bit more  aa, I called him a few times. Um, 

how 

 many, how many a how many is a few like.  Four or five maybe.

Okay. That's good. Mm-Hmm? . Yeah. . It's, it was, I, I just like to be really honest about it. That's, it was like, a few times can be anywhere from like three to 20. So, 

 like ? Yeah. No, it was, it was definitely like around five, um, yeah. Three to 20 or even 10. Yeah. And.  And then he finally, and I think I texted his brother and he lives with his brother.

I texted like, Hey, is he okay?  Definitely an AA maroon. It wasn't that I was definitely worried. It was like, just like, I'm out of control. He's, I felt, cause in those moments I also feel control. And I kind of want to take my power back, which I know is like messed up and not good, but that's, you know, to be honest, you know, that's how it goes.

And then he texted, Hey, I didn't go out anywhere. I'm just home and playing this game, uh, but I don't want to talk.  And for me, it wasn't even like, like about going out or it was just the communication and fearing this. And after that, neither of us have spoken since. I texted him a week ago, I think,  asking, Hey, are you ready to start communicating?

And there was no answer. So this was a 

 week ago you did that? Yeah. That's great.  Okay. All right. We got to start asking some really hard questions now. Okay, you ready?  All right. Alex, what kind of a relationship do you want?  I mean, 

 that's such an open question.  Do I get multiple choice? 

  Well, I think this is a really big thing.

I think actually this idea, because I know how hard you work in, in this work in PDS, right? I know how much you know about attachment styles. I know, you know, how important it is to bring the subconscious to the conscious, to have an intention with your life and with what's going on. And if I'm asking you, what do you want out of a relationship?

And you can't answer me that. Then I think we might see where the issue is here. Does that make sense?  Yeah, and the reason is, is because I think you might be holding on and now I am all for making all relationships work. Okay, so I'm going to tell you some hard truths and then we can absolutely go into how to still make this work with him.

Absolutely. But until we get into your hard truth, this will never work with him. And I 

 think I realized that and that's where I've been trying to work.  during this time. And that's why I had not reached out for the time I had because I was like, I need to get here. I feel especially because of that AC situation.

I'm like, I feel like I'm just murky. I'm confused by what other people are telling me I should want. I'm confused by what I really want by how our dynamic has influenced things. And yeah, 

 yeah, it's, it's interesting because There is an obvious, like, trigger point to this relationship, like,  the two of you have a tumultuous relationship.

It just is. And even when you say, like, it was an instant connection in the beginning, I mean, I would say that's obvious because you guys have been together for six years and yet it's been on and off, right? The two of you are pulled together, whether that be a trauma bond, you know, an enmeshment, a codependency, whatever it is.

If you have a relationship that has broken up and gotten back together that many times, that's the first red flag of the relationship, right? That's the first thing you need to really see within this relationship with him. So, in a relationship that's had so many, On, uh, on again, off again. Totally fine. If that's what you're about.

And yet what I hear in your words and in the things that you're saying specifically, one of the things you specifically said was,  what am I doing with my life? Where is my life going?  Right? That came from your own, like, subconscious thoughts, like, as you were coming out. So what are you doing with your life?

Like, where is your life going? Is this where you want it to go? What type of relationship? Like, and I love how you said you, like, feel like you lose control. Like, like he's taken the control. Yeah.  Right, but if we get really honest about that, has he taken the control or have you kind of given your control away, your power? 

Um, And that's a 

 hard one, I know. 

Yeah, 

I can see both.  

  Because when you say, like, he has the control in the relationship, the reason he has the control in the relationship and he has control over you is because you still are staying and you're still stuck in the same space  and you're still stuck in the same pattern with him over and over again, right?

With the hope that he changes. But let me ask you this. Is he in any sort of work? Is he changing his dynamic or his attachments style or anything like that? 

  I'll say that he's been, I've seen him put in thought into our dynamic and changing patterns.  But as far as I know, I don't know him taking any formal action as far as.  Like going to therapy or a coach or anything 

 like that.  This relationship that you want to be in, let's like dive into it together. When you visualize yourself, I want you to maybe close your eyes with me for like a little bit.

And it's five years from now.  And uh, future Alex is in a healthy and loving relationship. And she's the happiest she's ever been. What is that relationship like?  Effortless, true to mind. 

 Okay. Joyful. Definitely, yeah, equal.  able to talk with each other, 

kind of fun and 

easy. Like, you know, I, and that's like always like so hard to,  I know nothing is like perfect and like completely easy, but it just has that kind of quality of like  flow. Hmm.  

  Are the two of you, what do you like to do together? Do you, what kind of places do you like to go on walks? Do you like to go to theme parks?

Restaurants? What kind of things do you like to do together? 

  I don't know, and this has been hard because I've kind of lost a  lot of sense of that stuff, but I think travel or, I don't know, like, the things that come to mind is just about how, like, we interact, like, physically with each other, like, very close and, like, laughing or Whatever we're doing, wherever we are, we're at, just kind of in that bubble, almost. 

We said five years 

 from now? Yeah, and how about kids? Do you want to have kids?  Yeah. Okay, so you want kids. What kind of kids do you want to have? It sounds like a funny question. What I mean is like, um, what I mean is like, do you mind having kids on your own? Do you want to have kids as a family? Do you want to have kids and just have someone there to help you out with it?

Like, what kind of like family do you want?  Oh, gosh, it 

 has changed so much. Well, when you first asked that question, I thought I have also wanted to adopt at least one child.  That has kind of changed with him. Honestly, one, not because I don't want to adopt anymore. He doesn't, but more so like I used to not put that much emphasis on having my own children until him until being  the current person, because we don't know who that will be.

But, um, And so I would want definitely a partner and that's like throughout everything I do want a partner and in everything that we are and we do and we have the kids, um, as well, someone who is  equally sharing in the responsibilities of. Our relationship, period. 

 Mm. Mm hmm. Um, and how about like, um, spirituality or religion or anything?

Do you have any, like, values there that you want? 

 I would prefer someone who's not deeply spiritual or religious. I don't know that I would want someone who's completely atheist. I don't, I don't know  I have some sort of spirituality a little bit left in me, but the one thing I found, I do  kind of stay away from like extremes.

I like moderation and I like to not be really controlled or led by any label or, so for me, it's, it's kind of important for them to be  at least like giving,  so they're not like, Oh, my child or our relationship should be around these values these days, you know, going to church or doing these practices or energy theory or, you know, have crystals.

I mean, and it can be that, but it not to the extent that it's like so. Like hard press. 

 Yeah. Like not pushing it on you. Yeah. You don't want to have that pushed on you. That makes sense. But you're fine. Yeah, that makes total sense. How about then also with like, um, their mental state of mind? Would you like someone that is like growing?

Would you like someone that is into therapy or finding other ways to kind of better themselves? Or are you happy? Because like, You know, we know personal development, self growth is not for everyone, necessarily. So is this something that's important to you, or would you be okay if they didn't have this? 

I'm not 

 sure. Before doing the, like, attachment PDS work, I, I still am trying to figure out my non negotiables from, like, standards or things that I like, because, um, I definitely have taken into non negotiable territory that shouldn't be there, and I feel like this one might be. Yeah, it was, it is very important for me to be with someone who's open minded and has some sort of growth mindset.

But I also, I do wonder if  other things are in place and if they are able to show up, you know, like if they're doing their own thing their way, but still contributing to the growth of the relationship and the well being of the relationship, then it might not be a big deal of how to get there, but I guess it would be a preference that they, like,  Or they're open to therapy and coaching.

Yeah, I really like that. But that can also mess you up too, so it's like, I don't know. 

  I got you. I've got two more for you, real quick. Physical wise, like, are you interested in someone? Do they need to be able to hike? Do you want someone who's okay with sitting at home? Uh, where are you at, physical area of your life, in terms of a partner? 

I think  

  Again, moderation,  uh, I don't think I would be, I'd be okay with someone who's just at home all day, every day,  because to me that's depression.  But I also don't want to be constantly going. I like cuddling, I like having nights in or days in, weekends in.  But yeah, they're like, there has to be some sort of level of curiosity about the world and so going out and exploring for just experiencing. 

Yeah. 

 Yeah, I love that. And then for career and finance,  how would you like that? Do you need someone that has a career? Are you okay if they don't know what they're doing in their life? Do you need them to have any kind of specific financing? Anything like that?  Mm 

 hmm. I used to say, I do not want a businessman.

Oh, yeah. I'm turned off by, by men in suits, um, ironically, I guess, you know, many people,  because I think when I think of that, I think close mindedness. I think of people who are just looking for money there, because that's the other thing. I do want generosity. I don't want someone who's stingy, which my current partner is.

But yeah, so when I think suits, it's like just narrow mindedness. And once someone also was not exploring his actual passion or like,  I don't know, the things that he actually like it kind of cowardness too.  So, yes. But at the same time, it doesn't really I'm not looking to have someone that's a necessary an artist or someone that's like completely in the different direction. 

Yeah, I, so  I would be okay with someone who's not necessarily career driven or even well off or I mean, it could be the stay at home dad, like, um, I'm open to all of that. 

  So it sounds like really with that. Okay. If you want to, you can come back with me now. That was so beautiful. Like, you know, you did like such an amazing job.

I pulled out some traits that I found throughout all this with you. Okay.  So I pulled out, um, open mindedness seemed to come up a lot. You really want someone with open mindedness and communication came up a lot in different forms, different ways that you were talking, but that you really want to have a relationship where you are able to communicate with that person.

And what communication looks like as well to me is rift and repair, right? Like, because one thing that you mentioned, I want it to be effortless and easy and all this stuff. And we know that that's probably just an old kind of. Mindset of like relationships that we want it to be that way, but I loved how you kind of came back from that a little bit.

You said you wanted to be more like a flow  and the rift and repair of relationships is totally just a flow, right? Because we're always going to have issues in any sort of interpersonal like relationship we have with someone. There's always going to be a rift, like a conflict,  and it's how the repair happens.

That's important. And so when I hear you talk about how it's important for you to communicate, you know, I like how you said, like, you want to be laughing when you're out together, traveling, you know, that kind of stuff of even cuddling as a type of communication, right? It's just a touch communication. So that all sounded really important.

And then. As well, I heard in there a little bit just at the end, a little bit of bravery that you would like to have as well as generosity and then a relationship growth, which I actually found was really cool when you brought that up versus you need them to have personal growth is you don't mind what they're doing so long as your relationship is growing.

And I think that's an important distinction that people need to have in their relationships because some people don't mind so much about the relationship, but they want to see their partner grow. Some people don't mind what their partner's doing. Like, I don't care. If, like, you never finish high school, I don't care if you never learn what an attachment style is, but it's our relationship growing.

Like, are we stuck or are we stagnant? So those things. So when I bring those traits up for you, do any of them stand out for you or any of them, like, don't resonate or do all of them resonate? How's it feeling?  

  Yeah, I feel like they all resonate. I kind of forgot the first 

 two is open mindedness, communication, generosity, bravery, relationship growth. 

  Yeah, yeah, I think that the,  at this moment, yeah, I think there would be others, but this is a 

 pretty good. Is there anything else you want to just add into that? Cause this is for you. So is there anything else you want trait wise? Like.  No, 

 cause there's so many and that's like the journey that I'm on now too.

Okay. But yeah, I, I like that you mentioned communication being not just like the speaking, but also the physical. Yeah. Yeah. I'll add, I mean, this is so cliche, but I'll add the, like, sense of humor, uh, playfulness. Oh, 

 you know what? I forgot playfulness in there. No, playfulness was absolutely talked about all over the place.

I actually wrote it down up here because it was so big and then it forgot to, because I said that with the giggling and the, and like the, the travel. Oh, also travel like that look like adventure and maybe even novelty that you're into. You want like a partner that has like an adventure and novelty need, right?

Like. Or two, 

 at least I'd go along with mine. 

  Yeah, like, like, it doesn't have to be perfect, right? But you don't want someone that, like, has never maybe traveled the world because, or maybe they, they never have, but maybe that's like their biggest dream now. Or maybe they've traveled all over. They never want to travel again.

That's not for you, right?  Yeah. I, 

 or like learning languages. One thing that I did like about my current partner was that he was. Like pull towards like international students when he went to college and languages and I think more, I thought more than he is,  but yeah, that was one thing that I was interested in him for.

Yeah. 

  So of these traits that you kind of see,  do you see, is there,  is there overlap with this relationship that you're having now or are you noticing? There's some. Mm hmm. 

  So There's some and then some that are conflicting, like the playfulness. I think he thinks he's playful, and I think he is playful somewhere.

I, we might have different ideas of what that is, or I don't know. I feel like he's very heavy to me  and too serious. Mm hmm. That's, yeah. But he might say this, uh, the same for me. So, uh, it might just be a perception or whatever, but that is the one thing that sticks out that is a little bit complex. I see one.

The rest is like, what? Communication. Communication.  Yeah, that, yeah, those two.  Yeah. Sorry, I keep forgetting all this. 

  No, that's okay. But I want you to know that the communication one is a really, really big deal. And it was also one of the first things that you talked about and like, kind of went through other things and  especially the relationship growth.

That's another one that doesn't seem to track as well. Like in terms of, is he doing anything actively in your relationship to grow it? I would say 

 that one is more than the communication. I think maybe, you know, I haven't been, I mean, obviously there's six years.  But I think the communication was also the first thing that brought us together.

We talk a lot about life, about philosophy, about even ourselves  a lot. That's a good point. We dissect 

 our relationship. Yeah, let's, let's separate those two actually in communication. That's a really good point. It looks like you guys have really good philosophical and emotional connection  and able to like talk about that stuff.

But what is the repair like in your relationship?  Rocky. Okay. So that's good. I also added, I forgot about this. I also added family in there for you. I think I'm going to also add in there repair for you instead of just communication. Because when you talk about wanting a flow and wanting it to be easy and wanting it to be like, what was one of the first words you use effortless, that's going to come with having someone who can repair with you.

Someone who's willing to put in the work to repair with you. So I bring all this up because  it's really, really important  to get clear on what you want, right? You talked in the very beginning, the very first question that you had for me was, how do you hold space for these two opposite things?  And those, and I didn't quite even get what those two opposite things were.

So was it like the, the resentment and then the love? Is that like what it is? Pretty much. Yeah. Yeah.  That's on you to figure out.  Which one is costing you more? No, but I mean like, but I'm like, which one is costing you more? You asked yourself, where am I? What am I doing in my life?  Right? So what is it that you want?

If you want a family one day, if you want to be with someone who wants to move in with you, if you want to be with someone who wants to marry you, if you want to be with someone who's willing to commit to you, willing to have the conversations, really to have the hard conversations that have to come in a relationship in order to do with the repair, is willing to, you know, take you out to places and figure this stuff out with you.

and be in this with you.  Do you, if you want this for yourself,  is this what you're going to get with this person? That's the hard question.  And if you ask yourself that right now, what would you say 

  right now? I probably would say  90%.  That's not  this relationship. 

  No, I would never tell you what to do ever.

Right.  But like, if you want these things in a relationship, then the first step is working towards that with him. Starting to set those boundaries, starting to set those needs. The problem is you guys are not even talking right now.  So when you get back together, what do you think is going to happen again?

  I have no idea. And that's been the pressure,  because,  yeah, I go into like, should I walk away, should I stay, should I, will he walk away, will he stay? 

 Well let me ask you this question. You said you have no idea what's going to happen, but you have six years of experience. So when you guys get back together, if nothing has changed, what do you think is going to happen again? 

One thing 

 that I feel, based on experience, will happen is the ambiguousness, sort of.  Sort of talking about things, but not, he's asked the question, like, how do we stop doing this? How do we get better? How do we, or, you know, all this stuff,  but it's kind of never at the right time and follow through it.  So there's been like progress in that, but generally there is a level of just  not really sitting down for the 

  conversation. 

Yeah, because that's the communication that you guys need to sit down and really have. So if you want to know how to hold space for how to both love him and how to have resentment, it's getting incredibly clear on what you want when you guys get back together, okay? Because like, it's most likely going to happen.

He'll come back around. What is it going to be like six weeks to like three months or so whenever DAs kind of come back? So like You have this time to work on yourself so that when he comes back, there is no ambiguity,  right? You will no longer accept ambiguity.  You figure out what is it that you want in your life with this man.

Do you want to get married to him? Do you want to be a wife one day?  Then you need to sit down and have these conversations. The resentment is coming because you're not actually standing up for yourself and like exerting your powerfulness, like you're empowered ness when you guys get back together.

Instead, there might be a part of you and that anxiously attached part of you that's like, Oh, thank God he's back. Okay. Now I'm just going to like mold myself and bond myself and people please myself to make sure he doesn't do this again. And I even hear it in the way that you talk. I shouldn't have done this.

I shouldn't have done that. I shouldn't have got upset with him.  That's putting a lot of pressure on yourself to be the only reason this relationship works.  What about him? Yeah.  Like, where is he in this? Like, how many times do you need to be reassured? You know what? As many times as it takes. Okay? Cause that's a healthy relationship.

Because if he would be okay with reassuring you as much as it takes, your reassurance would go down. It just would. And that's how a healthy, secure relationship would be. It would be like, babes, I'm really having a tough time right now. I need reassurance to be like, okay, I got you. What do you need? You know?

And then a really good, secure relationship would come to you and say, okay, babes, listen,  now this is on his part. He would come to you and he would say, Hey, Alex. Okay. I noticed you really need a lot of reassurance. It's starting to overwhelm me a little bit. Is there anything else I can be doing to help reassure you?

Because I don't think I can keep doing this every day. And like, I can't keep this up.  Do you hear that communication? That's the kind of communication I'm talking about, that it sounds like you need in a relationship to make it easy and effortless.  Yeah. So when he comes back and when you do this again, and how you hold space for both loving him and having resentment towards him is you do not get upset with him, right?

You don't know, he doesn't come back and you're like, how dare you do this? How dare you do that? He comes back  and you have the control and you have the power inside of you and you get to say, I love you so much. I want this relationship to work more than you can even imagine. And also, here's what I need.

I need to know that we're working towards moving in together. I need to know that within the next three years, we're probably going to get buried. I need to know that you want to have kids with me.  I need to know that you're willing to not ever stonewall me again for two months without telling me.

Because in a relationship that I'm going to have with someone, we are going to repair. And if you need a week off, then you tell me you need a week off. And at the end of that week, you tell me you need another week and you do not leave me hanging for two months, because that is unfair to me.  Yeah. Now tell me what you need in this relationship, because I want to sit here and I want to give you what you need in this relationship.

I need you to tell me what you need. 

  Yeah, I wish you would. Like, 

 that's yeah. Yeah, well, exactly. That's part of the communication again. Yeah, because he's not in a place where he can do that. And I can give you my completely biased, you know, opinion here. But if you've been in a relationship for 6 years where you guys have tried on and off for this long and he's not working towards your relationship, that is not relationship growth.

You guys have been stuck for 6 years.  Yeah. And it just doesn't sound like that's what you want.  No, right. Yeah. And that would be the part where it's like, if you really want to do this with him and you really want to make this work, then like, yeah, it's, it's setting those boundaries. It's saying, I want to go to couples therapy with you.

I want to do one of these PDS courses with you. But let me ask you this question. And this is the, this is the fun part, personally speaking. It's like, yeah, we know what we have to do. Right? Like, whatever. Like, we've been in this for so long. Like, we know what we're doing. We're like, we know we have to have these conversations. 

When you picture yourself having this conversation with him,  what comes up for you?  Well, 

  I don't know if ironically, but the first thing that I noticed coming up is my own resistance to some of this. Like, when you mentioned how he should show up, I'm like, well, but I don't show up that way either. Like, the stonewalling, it's been both of us.

Like, it's I equal, not equally, he definitely does it more, but like I shut down too and I have a hard  time. This actually goes and circles back to that thing that I was mentioning earlier. What I reflected on was that I have this fear of communicating my needs  and boundaries probably and if in an understanding that if  and also maybe this plays into my own commitment of fear of commitment.

And I have an understanding that if we have a conversation like this,  if I have any relationship with anyone, and it comes to a moment where it is between their needs and my needs,  the compromise will always be in their favor. Not because they're bad people. This is what I feel like I  Learned in my life.

This is what I have attached to. So this is also why I have had a hard time  communicating my needs. And I just blow up. Cause I'm like, well, you're not going to meet my needs anyways. You're not going to be interested in my needs anyways. And you're like, what are, where are you coming from? You didn't even express your 

 needs.

This is really good. I want to say that again, cause I think it's really important. So you, when you have a conversation with someone and you guys have competing needs going on, You're saying that you often just, like, let them have their needs met instead, or do you feel like they force their needs on you?

Like, which way is it?  Or either, or nor. Like, I might have misunderstood too, I just, that's why I want to get like, No, 

 no, no, yeah. Sorry, I was just reflecting because, yeah, um, both. I mean, with my family growing up, you know, I was the child, they were the parents, and all that, so they had a little bit more influence through the decision.

So in that sense, it was kind of more enforced, more, you know. And I think later in my life, I've sort of let go of that control because I'm like, well, I'm not going to be hurt anyways. I remember, like, I had met this with every relationship, with my friends. Uh, I recently stopped a friendship, again, talking about hormonal relationships, also this friendship.

Because I felt like that was happening too much. And when I was standing up for myself,  I was like, no, you don't want that arena. I'm like, yeah, I do.  So yeah. So both, but I think it, it started from not being heard, not having space to have needs and stuff, or at least my interpretation. I mean, all kids, one thing that parents like can't do that or whatever, but it's more like.

They didn't even hear me. They didn't really understand what I was asking for. And now it's, yeah. 

 So you have a really big wound around, I am not hurt, don't you? Yeah. Have you done reprogramming on that?  Um, yes, but 

 not, not 

 fully. I would highly recommend for 21 days right now in the lead up to him coming back, that you work your ass off.

On this wound, because I got to tell you, there's a, there's a hint and I have a two people who also have the I am unheard wound tend to, I'm going to say this and I just please do not hear this the wrong way. It's I say this with the most loving compassion because I am the same way person people with an I am unheard wound tend to ramble when they're telling their stories.

And I know when you tell your stories, you want, I even when I try to be like, wait, can I just ask a question? You're like, no, I really just want this one part for you to hear, except then it went on for like another 5 minutes. And I was like, oh, this is fascinating. She just really wants someone to hear her right now.

She just wants to be able to tell her story. And so I wanted to hold space for you with that and just really allow you to be heard. But you can also see how when we have that wound, that means all of these other needs buckets. It's None of these are getting filled like your relationship, your communication, you know, your love and connection, your emotional connection, your playfulness that is almost affecting every single one of them because then you feel and that even works with why you feel powerless, why you feel out of control because you're just like all of this is all connected to that. 

So I, I'm saying like, oh, go on. 

  I have a question. Is, um, because I think we, in PDS it's separate, but is I am unheard and I am not understood or I'm misunderstood? Are they the same or very closely related? Because it feels 

 that way. You're saying misunderstood versus which one?  I am unheard. Yeah, they're gonna, they're gonna come across in a slightly different way.

So I am misunderstood is, I haven't heard that so much from you here. That comes a lot when, let's say I go to reiterate what you've just said to me and a lot of times you'll hear that someone is going to come back and be like, no, that's not what I said.  Like, I said it this way. And even though when they repeat themselves, it's exactly still the same way that I heard it like, and it's like, but they're so like hell bent on being misunderstood that it's like.

They are misunderstood. And then the way that we fix that usually is just like slowly learning that not everybody understands everything and it's okay to keep communicating. So they're all are, they're very similar. Like I'd say they're, you know, like brothers, like to an extent, but I am unheard has a different kind of level.

It almost has a level of like powerlessness behind it. Do you feel that? Whereas I Am Misunderstood almost has more of a level of like,  sometimes even excluded or like I Am Unworthy kind of behind it a little bit more. I'm not enough because I keep not, I can't seem to understand, like, no one seems to understand me.

I obviously can't seem to communicate well enough. And I'm not saying, you probably do have that a little bit as well. Yeah, 

 but not as much. I think Ben heard one, yeah. Invisible, like I just. Yeah, I'm not 

 seen, I'm not heard. Gosh, especially when you said, when you were telling the story and your subconscious said, What does it matter?

I'm not going to be heard anyways. Oh, that like, hurt me for your inner girl. Like, it really did. Like, that was just like, I wanted to like, hug little Alex and be like, I hear you. I promise I'm here for you. Like, I That that's going to be hard. And yeah, if you when he comes back and you guys try to have this conversation, you're not going to be able to articulate and have a secure, healthy communication with him.

If in the back of your mind, you're constantly like, well, he's not hearing me anyways. What does it matter? And when you said, like, when we have a relationship with someone or like when you're saying like, when I have a relationship with someone, if it's a competing needs, Their needs get met anyway. So like, what does it even matter?

Like, Oh, like I want to like challenge that for you too, because like in a healthy, secure relationship, when you guys have competing needs, like if you want sushi, you know, and he wants chicken,  like you guys are not going to always keep eating chicken.  Like you're gonna like, maybe the first time you don't mind.

Sure. And that's fine. Because those of us with like,  people with anxious attachment or like even fearful avoidance that tend to lead anxious attachment. There's also a little bit of a personality thing there too. We just have big hearts. We just a little bit, sometimes more go with the flow. Like we're just, you know, this idea that everything is people pleasing.

No, I mean, every once in a while, I just don't care.  If I say, Hey, I really want sushi. And my partner says, okay, I really want chicken. And that moment I get to check in with myself and be like, yeah, you know what? I just don't really care. Let's go eat chicken then. But then the next day I say I want sushi and he's like, well, I really want chicken.

And I'm like, well, I really want sushi, but I'll let him have this chicken. And we go have chicken again. That one is a little bit dicey, but still, whatever. If the next day I say I want sushi and he says he wants chicken and he's like, Oh, come on, we've had chicken the last two days. Let's just go ahead and have chicken again.

And now I'm starting to feel a little bit off. And I say chicken again. Now I'm inching into people pleasing. Do you see how it takes like a little bit of time?  It's not like the first time. It's not like all the time, but you guys have had six years of this. So I feel like we've already inched into there. 

Well, it's 

 interesting because when you say that, not specific about the food, obviously, but overall.  I've noticed, like, how much he's been willing to meet my needs and be there for them, and I've just not been allowing that or taking that in. Not all the time, obviously. We definitely have our, ourself. Yeah.

 Why do you think?  Though this is great. Though this is actually really good. So, you say you want sushi.  He says he wants chicken, and he goes for sushi with you. 

  I'm kind of, uh,  I can't feel embarrassed to say yeah. 

  No, this is good. So tell me, tell me why. We'll do both.  Okay, so tell me why that's like, then hard for you to receive that.

Like, what's going on there for you? 

  It's uncomfortable even just like going into 

 it. That means we've gotten to a good space.  We like 

 the uncomfortables. Yeah, I definitely, oh gosh, I don't really know what's going on besides just, yeah, I definitely have noticed like, uh,  uh, feeling kind of guilty.  Or,  I mean, not always, definitely not always and with them, but there's  I remember my dad coming here one time and calling me straight out selfish. 

And so  I feel like there must be something that I, like, over time have picked up on.  Even observing my mom, who is anxious, attached, um, completely, and her being sort of called that way or seen that way, and so,  somehow I just associate,  and she always like kind of is a self sacrificing person, so I, I think maybe even just from that alone, I have like an association in my mind, if you're not sacrificing yourself, you're being 

 selfish.

Oh, yeah. I mean, is that true, though? No,  no. Yeah, no, I know, as soon as you say that, of course not, right? Of course not. Like, well, we have to catch ourselves, and this is the kind of work that we need to be doing. Like, in terms of that. So, the next time, and practice this in small ways with, like, your friends.

Practice this in ways with other people who kind of trigger you. Like, maybe like this one friend who's on and off again sometimes. Maybe you could try that, but like, hey, I really want to do a thing. What do you think? Right? And really learning. Oh, it's not 

 gonna work, I gave up on that one. Oh, okay. I've tried.

I've tried having these conversations, but like, hey. Please, like, hear me out on how I see things and it was just me. So. Great. Well, then that 

  sounds like the relationship that has run its course and it was great for the moment when it was for you, but it sounds like it's not serving you anymore because you've grown with who you are and what you want and it's absolutely okay that sometimes we have to let go of, you know, friends and family that aren't serving us anymore.

That's like, does that hurt you at all to let go of people like that? Like, does that make you feel guilty or shameful for letting that relationship go?  

  This particular one, no, because I've been, I, I've tried multiple times, so we've come back and forth multiple times. And because of the work I've done, I feel like it's been very clear. 

Uh, so I don't have that much attachment to it. 

 That's awesome. No, that makes me really happy for you. That really, I mean, you can even use that as like an example for yourself to see what kind of like freedom, like, and empowerment that you have from having made that choice. It doesn't sound like it's ambiguous with this friend, like, will you, or won't you get back together?

Kind of thing. It sounds like you've made a choice because it wasn't serving you. And I think that's a really beautiful, like when you're reprogramming. And even if you, because I really, I'm still going to highly recommend you do I am unheard. I'm telling you like when you, and you have 21 days, right? Like, I also really love reprogramming when we're in a space of almost like limbo with like a partner when we're in that no contact when we're in that, Oh my gosh, is he going to reach back out to me?

Oh my gosh. Like, where is she kind of thing? Like all of those times, this is the most perfect time to reprogram because Whenever you start to think it's either been like, Oh, my God, it's been so long since he's reached out or it's not been long enough. The days as you're reprogramming just helps you keep track of your reality.

And so it's like, okay, I've done this for eight days. Okay. I've done this for 10 days. Like, and then you have like something you're really working towards that, you know, at the end of this 21 days, you know, or whenever he comes back, you will have the ability to have this communication with him better.

And then you're going to be able to apologize for, you're like, you're going to be able to say, you're right. Like, yeah. There are times when I needed a lot of reassurance and I'm going to be working on that. And also I would really like it for you to help me with this. Or if you see that I'm starting to spiral, could you really just be my rock in that moment, babes?

Could you just not let us get there? And then in the, in the, on the flip side, if I see that happening with you, I won't let us get there. Like, in fact, I think you're being incredibly like strong and like strength oriented right now in this time where he's stonewalling you, you're not like. Flipping out or reaching out or in an anxious attachment space right now, like, honestly, you feel very like steady and like, okay, I'm here and like you doing this for him right now is you being rock in the relationship so that when he comes back, you know, so long as you have no resentment, you just have to be careful.

You gotta like, clean that out. If you're upset about this at all, you gotta let, you know, you gotta like, yeah. Get that out. If you are angry about anything in the past, you got to, like, release that, forgive it, let it go, right? This is the work for you to do now. This is the time you get to be the rock. And then you get to ask for that in return. 

And you do ask for your needs, and it's okay to ask for your needs, and you're not selfish. So just keep that in mind and work on it in tiny little ways. You know, like, go to a restaurant and, like, You know, order something very picky or something like that, and then, like, don't feel guilty about it. Right.

Those I don't have a problem with. Okay, great. I was trying to think like,  you'll find it in yourself. Like, you'll find it in yourself. You'll start to, like, feel that familiar feeling pop up where you're feeling guilty for for being selfish. Right. And you're going to be like, ah, okay. Jen said when that happened, I need to really lean into this.

Now I need to really, like, Own. Own this selfishness. Because you know what, like, let's also just like reframe the idea of selfishness. What is selfishness? It's just taking care of yourself, right? Pure, selfish. I'm gonna say self care. Yeah. Yeah. Pure selfishness is like selfishness without like the actual like definition of selfishness is actually like taking, like only looking inward at yourself and like not taking care of anyone else.

Like I actually just don't think. It's physically possible for you to be the full definition of what selfish is like, like, you're just like, you're anxious. Attachment just wouldn't allow you to do that, right? Like, you're people pleading, like, like at all, like, in, in, in a way, that's when our, you know, unhealthy sides of us really show that, like, there would be no absolute way for you to be selfish in the way that selfish actually means.

Instead, if anyone has ever told you you're selfish, it's most likely a way to just Take away your control. It's their way of controlling you and saying, because if you care about something that you want, if you want sushi, you know, and your dad wants chicken and you say, let's go get sushi. And he says, why are you being selfish all the time?

What does he get?  He gets what he wants. Who's the selfish one in that one? Then  where's the, yeah, it's like all projection. If anyone ever says that to you, it's like the number one shadow projection that happens. Like you can never actually call anyone selfish. That's weird. Like, you know, yeah. Yeah, 

  again, I have a moment of realizing, oh gosh, like the, the healthy side of the relationship I'm in, because I think it is easy to look at the unhealthy side, you know, as humans, like we're  trying to solve everything and be safe, but, you know, like, yeah, I don't want to, no matter where it goes, where it leads, but I don't want to lose sight of it.

The healthy parts that have been different than the ones with my dad, so forth, because, 

  yeah. Well, and you can still take those healthy parts and,  like,  put them into a different relationship. So have you been with anyone else in these six years?  I've 

 dated, um, in our off times, but not, like, relationship. No one, like, long term?

Five dates at most. Yeah. Okay, have 

 you been able to really date anyone since really working towards becoming secure? Anyone that's not him? 

  I've gone on one date dates.  But not, like, yeah. 

  So, again, you have this man in your life that you were attracted to in a time when you were in a very insecure place in your life. The two of you have had a rocky relationship on again, off again. You don't really know what to do. You see the good in it, but you're also consistently triggered and you don't know why.

Well, one of those reasons why is no matter what you do, Alex, like, He's always going to trigger you because he's meeting an old subconscious like wound inside of you over and over and it's just it's reinforcing it over and over again and one of the hard things about this is like if I were to give you like my unsolicited advice of where we need to go with this like I would honestly ask for you to take an intentional year break from him.

Where you, like, tell him that and intentionally get out there and date. Like, date the crap out of every guy you can find, right? Like, give yourself, like, three months to heal, like, to an extent, right? Like, and then I want you to go meet as many men as you possibly can. Like, that's what I would completely recommend in this situation.

Because what's happening is you keep going back to the well, expecting to find something different. And I'm not saying he's wrong or bad at all. But what I'm saying is there's obviously a pattern happening for you  and you keep saying, I should be good enough to stop this and I should be good enough. But like, But like, it's like hitting onto the same wound over and over again, it's like breaking the same bone over and over again, you're like, I should just be strong enough to not be able to do this, except just stop lifting that weight, stop running, you know, like it is, it's honestly, it's a lot like runners with bad ankles,  and they so badly want to run, and I know they love it, and it's so good, but every time they run, they hurt their ankle again.

And what they get upset about is the fact that their body should be strong enough to handle this and they get angry about that. And so they don't accept it and they just keep running and they keep ruining their ankle. And then they stop and they heal and it heals up well enough. And instead of walking, they go running again.

Okay, sometimes we just have to realize that there are some things in our life we can't do.  And so what I would honestly, like after six years, and I'm just looking at this from an outside perspective and a little bit of chatting with you before, right, is like.  I want more for you.  Like, and  I don't know how you're gonna get it with this man,  because you've tried everything.

Like, you are working your butt off in this relationship. And as much as I know that there are like a lot of like healthy things that are going on, a lot of good love in you, we could, we could break that down in a different call. We could break down, like, All the traits that he brings to your life. And why do you like being around him?

But what is it that keeps bringing you back to him? Like, why are you okay with someone just completely ignoring you for two months? And then like,  you'll get back together with that person. Like to me, that would be a non negotiable.  Yeah. Like that's not a relationship. Yeah. If you had a kid together and he did that,  is he going to do that to his future kids?

Like, what if there's a problem with his kid?  Like, right? Are you guys going to move in together? Are you going to get married? Are you going to have children together? These are the high value things that you need to be having a conversation with him about. And I think this idea that like you go to this trip and you see people getting engaged and you're starting to follow those feelings. 

And I'm not saying this to, like, break up with him. I'm saying this because you need to have these conversations with him. And then who knows? Like, my favorite thing is people that are so scared about having these conversations with their partners, and they're like, Okay, I'm gonna, like, do it. You know, I'm like, I'm gonna heal that wound up.

But like I said, like, you cannot have this conversation right now. Like, if you had this conversation right now, you'd be, like, a triggered mess. Like, 

  I know that's, that's the hard part is, like, You know, being in that good space to have that conversation, because otherwise it'll not go good no matter what. 

Um, but yeah, I, I definitely, my point of view now, and maybe because I've been on pretty much exactly one year with. My,  uh, attachment coach, I feel like that's kind of led me to be in a, in the space where I feel the same as far as like, this is not okay to have such a big break.  The thing with this particular, and I think because Entice talks about this, like, you know, before you. 

When you set the deadline and so forth, whether you're a pair or not, the relationship, you know, it take until kind of how long it has been and I know it's been on and off and that's not necessarily a good sign and so forth, but I do, I personally feel I owe this relationship, the conversation before that cut off.

I don't feel it.  It would be a service to myself even to just walk away without being, Hey, this is what I need. Are you okay? Are you on board with this or not? And really also give him the chance to hear that. Cause maybe he is like, well, yeah, that's fine. Or, you know, some of these are fine and, you know, have that.

And, but I didn't know or whatever. So. And wanting to have that conversation from a stable place and not a triggered place. Yeah, it's just like, that's the hard part. It's 

 so hard. It is the hard part. And if you, if the partner you want to grow with, if the partner you love  and the partner you want to be in a loving, healthy, strong, secure relationship with. 

I'm, I'm just, this is one of those really hard truths. If when you're near him, you can't not be triggered, then there's something deeper going on. There's something you're not even seeing for yourself. He's hitting a particular subconscious wound inside of you  that like, it's beyond the point that you can even work past it.

Right. You'd have to be like, I mean, honestly, you'd have to be tight, right. To like,  to like, to like do that. And even then, Tyrese would probably have been like, yeah, dropped him like, like three years ago. Right. Like  that's the point. Right. Like. Listen to your body, right? Like, I can't wait. I'm so excited.

And like, I want to like, I got to tell me when he comes back. Cause like, I need to, I'm invested now. I need to know what's going on. But like, when he comes back  and you have work, cause the thing is, right, Alex, like yeah. If I'd never met you before and you'd never heard of attachment styles and you were new at this and I would be like, Oh my gosh, this is great.

We're going to teach you all the new things. Of course, your relationship's been messed up. You had no idea. Like, we're gonna totally work on this and you got this right? But I know you, to an extent, not because I don't know you know you, right? But I know how hard you've worked, I know how far you've come, I know how secure you are now in so many other areas of your life, that when I see someone coming into your life and is still triggering you that much, it's like almost such an irrational trigger where you're coming from.

Cause when I see you and I know you and I know how rational you are and I know how strong and secure and in control you are and all other aspects of your life. Of course, again, I don't know you completely, right? Like it's not like we're bad, but I see you and I've seen been around you long enough that when I see someone coming into your life and doing this, it's putting up a little bit of a flag in my mind.

That's like, what else is he hitting on then? Can you ever actually do this with him? Like, again, it would be like asking you to be perfect. In order to make that work. And so I just want you to be careful that like, you know, you actually said something where it's like, well, he's allowed to stonewall because I stonewall too. 

And what I heard there, what I heard there was. You need someone that's going to help you through your stonewall, not retaliate with a stonewall. Does that make sense? You need someone as well that is going to help you through your insecurities. Like, you're not wrong. He's not wrong. Like, he's not bad. And you're not wrong or bad.

But the two of you might just have too many, like, insecurities that tend to clash.  To an extent where they just, you're not compatible in those ways. That's the only thing I would want to be mindful of. But who knows? Again, I agree with you full 100%. You absolutely owe this relationship a conversation.

Like, absolutely. And I, I would like, I would not feel like that would be honoring to you or to any of this. If like, when he came back and even it can go slow when he comes back, it's okay for you to be like, I would like to just have a month of playfulness with him. Like, you know, that's okay. That's 

 what, that's what I, um, was suggested by,  I just recently switched therapist, both therapists suggested that, but I feel like because of the stone walling and our particular dynamic, it would be hard to just go into playfulness.

I think that's what he would really want and it would serve the, the conversation.  But it's also awkward, like, and then, I will also 

 admit, Oh, go on, sorry. 

 He's not really been the one to reach back out. I've not really ever waited for him to,  not ever, but in the past year or two. Okay. Well, the past year, because, yeah, I have been the one that reaches out.

And it is around, like, the six week mark, and,  I feel like he probably needs a little bit more time based on her, how this has gone  and he keeps saying, like, let me come to you, 

 but I was just going to say, I was just going to say he literally said that. So let me ask you this. Are you okay with waiting until he comes to you?

Cause I actually think that would be huge for you, Alex. I really do. 

  I know. I feel like I need to, I feel like that's like. I think 

 that's a great first step. Yeah, I agree. I completely agree. I think if we just have a couple goals here that we want through this, what's one of the very first things that you can be doing in this situation?

I want you to let him come to you.  But I also don't want you to necessarily wait. Right? Like, we're not waiting for him. 

 I feel like with the cut off of what I feel is respectful to me too. Which for me I, I kind of want to spend a little bit more time talking or thinking about this, you know, for myself, but what I right now would say the cutoff would be like mid November,  I would feel pretty comfortable because also I'm aware of what I want to work on and I'm not ready to have that conversation or re engage until, you know, as much as I heed the, you know, the tension and stuff or the anxiety and So, yeah.

I know I need at least two weeks to  still work through myself. 

  Mm hmm. And it did sound like you did reach out to him again, are you ready to talk, and he still just ghosted you.  Right. Yeah. So it did like you did reach out, like, so like, in this whole time frame it wasn't like you didn't. You tried again.

But this time got worse, but I'm very proud that it was 

 only one time. Yeah. I'm 

 so proud of you too. No, I really am. It's like, yes, like, like,  yeah, actually, you know what? Yes. Like, Oh, that shit. Absolutely. In fact, I'm so proud of you too. And I'm, I'm more proud that you just said that to me right now. Like, I'm more proud that you're like, wait, I am proud of myself and I'm owning this because I was like, hell yeah, that is so good.

Cause I still think, I mean, I don't want to like text him and be like, where the fuck are you? Like, sorry, excuse me. I just was like, you know, like he's triggering my anxious attachment right now. Um, but like,  so like, I think you're doing an amazing job. I love this idea for you for mid November to like have a reach out and maybe again.

Like, and how about, how about we just like, maybe like we could touch base again, if you want to, at some point in time before you do this, because we could just kind of sit down and discuss like, Hey. Like, how are you feeling with this before you do it? Like, really get into a place where you are. And then who knows, you know, he maybe comes around before then.

But while you're doing this, so here's our goals.  Don't reach out again, then until the November, right?  Work on reprogramming your I am unheard wound. Okay, so that's another good one there, too. And work on, um, exposure work for how to, uh, be okay with being quote unquote selfish.  Yeah. How do those three things work for you in terms of everything we've talked about today and in terms of trying to hold space for both loving him and resentment?

Do you think that could help you towards that kind of reconciliation when it happens?  Yeah, and I 

 think  just overall, those are like, exactly, maybe there's another one that I can't think of, but those are exactly the, the, I feel like the. The wound that  keeps showing up in this relationship or in my life and, uh, you know, the space of really having a relationship.

So yeah, I feel like this is what, you know, the lessons that keep coming to us until we learn them. I feel like these 

 three It's so annoying how they just keep happening until we learn them, jeez. Yeah. Yeah. 

 I wish they could just believe that we've learned 

 them.  And then I would say after about three weeks or so of that, like after you've really reprogrammed and you've been working on this for a little while, that's when you can really, and throughout this time, I still want you to be taking notes.

Like, what do I really want in a relationship? What do I want to feel like? How do I want this to be? What am I looking for? Right. And you want to go top ticket items. Like if you say I want to move in within the year and he says no, then I mean, that's a non negotiable, right? Like you've been together for six years.

It's very reasonable to say, right. But these are the things like I would like to be married within three years. That's actually a very reasonable request. Yeah, those kind of things, but like those things are going to come more natural and they're going to come over the three weeks as you heal, like your, you know, your, your wound.

And as you start thinking about your, um,  again, quote unquote, selfishness and, you know, all that kind of stuff, then we can actually get together again if you want to and have a conversation about like, what are the things that I really need to tell him about? And then you're going to be able to come to him and you're going to be able to say them in a way that's not like, okay, Yeah.

I need this or else, right? This is not an ultimate, right? This is not a trigger. This is not like a punishment. This is you showing up for yourself and talking about what you deserve and your worthiness around all of that. And just understanding that like. Like, you can love him  all of your heart. In fact, I would highly recommend that because if we villainize the other person, it's actually worse.

You can love him. You can see his faults. You can see why he does things. You can understand why he's stonewalling. You can understand his past. You can understand his attachment style. You can totally get the fact that he doesn't want to move in because it's really scary for him and all of this stuff.

You can get all of that and you can love him for it and you can still let him go.  Even with it all, right? We can still be, we can be absolutely head over heels in love with someone and know that we're not compatible for them,  or they're not compatible for us.  And that's kind of the hard part to like it too.

But until we get there, we're just going to work on your other wounds and we're going to do that. So how do you feel now? Um. I know we went a little long here, but I think this was a really great conversation and I hope that like people get a lot of like use out of this because I think even though we went in a lot of different directions, like you were just rocking it in terms of like getting there with like the questions I was asking and like being able to really like flesh out the ideas and stuff like that.

But as we're finishing up, how are you feeling right now? Did this help any aha moments you had or anything else you want to talk about before we go?  

  I wouldn't even know where to start with that for a moment. I just know they've, there've been quite a few that were  really useful. Um, that,  yeah. So for me personally and the relationship and just, uh, life and stuff, yeah.

So this has, I feel a lot more grounded or like  more okay in that, you know, the, the duality of the resentment and the love of space  and more clear.  We're not more clear because I still have to figure out what I want, what I need, but  I feel more empowered to go down that route.  I still feel, I think one of the things that Key has kept me from that is also like this overwhelm.

I mean, initially it was like the people pleasing like, oh, I can't have meat because I'll be left if I have means. But now it's more like. Well, I don't even know where to start. There's so many and there's so many levels and so many, like, I don't know if this is a non negotiable. Is it not? Like, there's, so there's that overwhelm, but I still feel a lot more empowered before the call.

And 

  yeah. I like hearing that word come from you, empowered. I think that's really great. I'm really happy to hear that because absolutely that would be a great place to be. Because I like that you're like, I still don't know what I want, but you are clear that you need to figure that out. And that's the first step, right?

Like we just take tiny little goals and we do it. So I think that's lovely. Thank you so much for, for again, you know, coming on the podcast with me and being just so open and vulnerable and sharing all of this, I think it's just going to help so many people because you are definitely in a relationship that I know very many people are in and it's so confusing.

And the thing is, is there is no right or wrong answer, right? It's about trying to figure out what works for you. And I'm really excited. To see how this goes for you. And I just want to say thank you so much again for coming on and I will talk to you later. Okay.  Yeah. Thank you. 

 Bye. Bye. 

  So as you can see, Alex has been through a lot with her on again, off of again, boyfriend of six years. And there was a couple of times I really tried to get her into a place and almost kind of rattle her to get her out of this comfort zone of going back to him all the time. But I think it's really important to remember as a coach and as a friend or anyone, we never tell anyone what to do.

And now Alex is someone that I've worked with for quite a while, so I did have a little bit more familiarity with her and I was able to speak up a little bit more with her, but I also was ultimately letting her choose where she wanted to go with this. My favorite takeaway from this episode was the visualization that I had Alex do.

Which was, she was getting so wrapped up in all the tiny details about her relationship with him. Did you notice that? Like, I would ask her to tell me about something. She wanted to finish a thought, but that thought went on for five minutes. And again, that's no problem. Rambling, heck, I do it too. You probably noticed a lot on this podcast.

I can start rambling. But it's really important when you're noticing that to kind of get them to jump out of what that is going on in their mind. So that's what I wanted to take her into a visualization. Get her to a place where she can see what is it like in five years time, and what do you want to be like?

And is the relationship you are in right now headed that way? If you're sitting there at home, or in your car, or on a run, or just napping in bed right now, and you're thinking to yourself, where do I want to be in five years? And is your relationship right now there? Then you have some options. You have to start figuring out what can you change, where can you change things, or what can you be doing in order to get yourself there, right?

And so that's just a really good technique you can be using if you're not sure what to do. Is the relationship you're in today going to take you to where you want to be in 2, 3, 4, 5 years?  And so after today's episode, I hope you really see and understand how important it is that we have to get clear on what our wants are.

Not just because we love someone, because yes, love is amazing, but it will also keep making us go back to a thing that is incredibly toxic for us, and I don't want to see that for any of us. So get really clear on what you want and work towards it because you are worth it. Okay. I will see you next time.

Bye. 

As we wrap up today's conversation, always remember that healing is a journey, not a destination, and it is an honor to be a part of your healing journey. If you want to dig deeper into the topics we covered today, Be sure to head over to our show notes where you can find all of the valuable information mentioned in today's episode, right there.

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