Podcast or vodcast. I tend to be a multitasker, so I want to walk and listen to audio. I want to drive and listen to audio. It's usually that I'm doing a physical activity that turns into an automaton activity. Same multitasker if I'm on my walk or I'm going to the gym or even a long drive. I started my podcast so that I could just work in my pj. So this video thing, what are we doing here, people? Yeah, you're ruining it for me.
Hello. Why do we as podcasters, willingly subject ourselves to hours of editing, awkward ad reads, and the existential dread of shouting into the void? If you've ever asked yourself that, or if you're just here to revel in the weird, wonderful world of podcasting, then you're in the right place. Welcome to Sound Strategy with Lucas Dicke. Without a doubt, this is the most meta podcast about podcasts ever. I'm your host, Lucas Dicke, and I'm the founder of deepcast,
and I am. A marketing specialist, sometimes co host, also a member of deepcast. Happy to be here. And my name is Fabian Mickens. All right, I'm your podcast producer and occasional co host as well. I'm Alison. Melanie. And let me start out with question number one, Lucas, why we're all here today. What the heck is deepcast, and why did you want to start a podcast? Very meta about podcasting. I think that's two questions, and I'll tackle the first and then the second. How about that? So,
and I'm going to do my best not to jump into. I'm pitching to venture capitalist mode, which is kind of where my head is at a little bit right now. But the origin story for deepcast is really around problems that I was saving, you know, facing in my own life, I often think so, like tackling a business idea. Better to come up with a problem you want to tackle as opposed to come up with a solution and then look for a problem. And in this particular case, it happened to be. Be. You know, I consume.
I think I was subscribing to about 50 podcasts and trying to figure out where to fit them in over the course of my. My week. So for me, it was very much around. I want to engage more deeply with the content. I need the knowledge retention. After I've engaged with the content, I want to be able to share the content with others. My co founder, you know, as we were sort of debating, this idea was coming from a. From a slightly different angle. Hey, I'M only subscribed to
five podcasts. Why? Because this sort of like old school Yahoo, top down hierarchical model just isn't working for me. I'm lazy to go down that list. So how do I find things that are maybe more interesting to me topically or based upon sort of subsets of things I've expressed interest in? And then, oh yes, by the way, I also want to be able to share
quick sound bites with friends, you know, on the go. So it was very much us as listeners through our respective podcast apps, which for me were Google podcasts until it was gone. And then now Pocket Cast is my daily go to. For him it's Spotify because he uses Spotify for everything else and he's got it for his running on his watch. And so he just bought into the entire Spotify ecosystem. But we're both facing these same challenges. So we basically said come back to
first principles or stepping back. What are we aiming for? And these are going to be highly alliterative. I like alliteration. So we've got discovery, distillation, distribution and then digestion. And the idea there, being a given user, is hitting deepcast FM because they're aiming to discover new content, whether very intentionally or serendipitously or organically based upon the different tools we have for discovery. Then once they find a thing, the distillation kicks in.
We process all transcripts on our platform for processed episodes. And the idea is you got the transcript. What can we infer from that transcript in terms of what's most important? What's the summary? I would need to know what are the takeaways I might want to see before I decide to commit to this thing? I said try before you buy because there aren't really trailers in the longer sense that exists within many other media types. Then we
got the distillation side of it. How do I take as a podcast fan, it's so hard to share stuff with my friends because we're all using different apps. If someone sends me a three minute and two second marker start point on Spotify and I don't even have Spotify installed on my phone, like that's just an awkward experience for me. So it's all these native applications that don't really embrace open web
and the ability to share things easily. So how can we do distillation from a quote I want to share to a social to an episode with a summary I want to share via email to maybe a video or audio snippet I want to share to a video first social platform and then sort of the digestion side is around like knowledge management and retention in some cases.
I've listened to it. What I'm really going to there is to take away notes that I want to put in my personal repository, whether that's notion, Obsidian, Evernote, so that I can remember it for later. So it was really all of those is what we're tackling on the consumer side of the experience with what is deepcast fm. So that's a bit of the origin story. A little bit backstory on me is also that I did the first 10 years of my business or experience
in digital music. So having done discovery, having done recommendation engines, having thought about audio semantic similarities between things, sort of the music genome or similarities and relationships between bands, which is less necessarily about the sound of the audio and more about their relationship. So like corollaries to that exists within podcasting.
And I'll make one last point. This is around a lot of this is also built on this sort of fundamental tenet that we believe like we want to unlock the value of all the words world's spoken audio knowledge. And there's a lot sort of trapped in audio which isn't designed for indexing and search and sort of traditional ways to identify things through
Google. So can we, through what we're doing unlock sort of the Google for Podcasts experience when it comes to engaging with it was something we thought about and you know, the idea there being also exposing consumers or listeners to podcasters they otherwise wouldn't have been. So Rising Tide floats all, but we're very much thinking about sort of podcasters first with listeners also sort
of being tied where I'd say some other platforms. I feel like the platform is that, you know, the house takes all the cards, whatever the expression is in terms of the house always wins. Which I would think it was like Spotify, you know, point blank versus others, maybe heavily podcast centric. And then the other is like where you're kind of meeting in the middle on both fronts. So anyways, deepcast is aiming to tackle all of the above and that
was a lot. So feel free to pick in on any of it. I feel like we're going to have some overdubs on some of that that you just shared with us, Lucas. Most definitely at some point our translator will come in. Yeah, that's right. That's right. Perfect. So I know that we are going to learn a lot about Deep Cast. We're going to learn a lot about your journey and I thought it might be fun to just Do a quick rapid fire with you so people can just
get to know Lucas, the guy. Oh, yeah. Are you up for it? All right. Yeah, I'm always up for it. All right. So easy one. Game of Thrones or Lord of the Rings? Oh my goodness. Probably Game of Thrones favorite character. Man, it's been long enough that I don't even remember the characters names anymore. But I tend to like, maybe it was Littlefinger or the ones who managed to make it start to finish. It's like, how did you do that? You didn't get hit by the Red Wedding.
It wasn't some anomaly where they decided a dragon was gonna bite you and somehow you did it all the way start to finish. I love it. I think those tend to be my favorites. How did you survive to the end? That's right. Yeah, exactly. Lord of the Rings always feels like, you know, each of an episode. I'm like of the series. Okay, cool. Now I have to watch the next one. It doesn't feel fully encompassed. They always feel like a 3 hour trailer for the next 3 hour trailer until
you get to the final end. Which honestly Harry Potter felt the same way to me a little bit, but it kind of maybe a little bit better. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And it's like eight or eight or nine of those, right? Yeah. It's their commitments. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Okay, so you're in Cali, right? So Lakers or Warriors? I'm not even going to include Clippers or Kings. So Lakers or Warriors. Oh, wow. Well, that's funny because I was a six year season ticket holder for the Clippers. What?
And here's the fun fact. I mean, most folks in L. A, you are a Lakers fan if you're from LA and if you're an import from elsewhere, you oftentimes are a Clippers fan. There's like a high correlation there. I happened to move from Seattle to the Bay when the warriors were not doing well. So I didn't pick up the warriors as a team. I lost my team in Seattle with the Sonics going, you know, bye bye to Oklahoma. So I had to pick a new team. A Seattle fan's not going to pick Lakers. Like Lakers.
Supersonics is as old as an Ice Cube in his rapping in the early 90s. Right. So I ended up picking Clippers and rolling with it from there. Wow. I was not expecting Clippers, but that explanation makes sense. They're also embedded in Inglewood. Now. Some of the best music you know of the type that I'm a fan of in la. So I feel that. Okay, I feel like I know the answer to this already. Podcast or Vodcast? I'm audio only
for many reasons, which I'm sure we'll get to later. It could be generationally, which we'll talk about, maybe not. But I tend to be a multitasker, so I want to walk and listen to audio. I want to drive and listen to audio. It's usually that I'm doing a physical activity that turns into an automaton activity, and my brain is engaged, so I'll do it, you know, shower and
sort of anything that's like that. I cannot do it while actively engaged in other things because I generally want to actually listen to what the podcasts are saying. Like, I love the rapport of Casey Newton and Kevin Roos on Hard Fork, but if I was like, you know, computing at the same time, I really wouldn't pick up on that. I also, there was. There was something I heard a long time ago, and I
forget which podcaster was that said it. But, like, the idea of podcasting as a medium, being audio first allows for, like, an intimacy that if you're not looking at each other, it's the old Fireside chats, the radio in the 40s, where it's just the President chatting with someone and you're not thinking about what they look like,
they're not thinking about each other. It's the whole, like, Nixon sweating on stage for the first time and realizing, oh, my God, video changes everything or everyone who's ever lived through Covid, that is all of us who are still here. Unfortunately, you get this sort of, like, I'm tired of looking at myself on camera thing too, and do I want to look at yet another you as a guest on the show? So. So some of this, like, the guests struggle with authenticity because they're like,
oh, my God, is my shirt this way? Da, da, da, da, da. As opposed to just, like, focusing on the conversation. So anyways, I'm an audio. Yeah, I identify with that as well. I feel like. Same multitasker. If I'm on my walk or I'm going to the gym or even a long drive, let me just plug in. And I'm a Spotify listener, too. Just because audiobooks are there. It's all there. It's all there. I started my podcast so that I could just work in my pj. So this video thing, what are
we doing here, people? You're ruining it for me. I love that on the tales of that Top three podcast and why I. Think you guys probably have a broader coverage of favorites here, but I tend to listen heavily in sort of VC land, startup land, AI land, broader tech land, news and politics. That's mostly where I live.
Although I did start an episode of Modern Relationships which is Eric Torenberg, part of his Turpentine Media Network, which is like high performing executive couples and how they manage like child rearing and relationships on the job and things of that nature. But no, my go tos I mentioned Hard Fork. I love the rapport between the two. They've both been covering tech news for 20 years, you know, well before they even had their first podcast I think was three years ago.
They clearly are their fans. Like people are voting for them, you know, with years, etc. And they play with different tactics that I like. Like their, their hat GPT they're playing with right now and concepts. They have fun with it. Like it's clear that they have fun with each other and have fun with the show. Another one would probably be there's one called BG2 Pod, which is Bill Gurley and Brad Kerstner. Bill's a famed VC at Benchmark Capital. He led the initial investment in Uber amongst
many other things. And then Brad Gerstner is at Alt Capital, which is a large PEBC fund. And they're doing sort of like a week they do every week or two. They just happen to be super knowledgeable about the things they're talking about. And it does not sound like heavily scripted. It's just the two of them. They don't have analysts off call. That's like you know, the messaging them the smart thing to say.
And you have one of them that's viewing investing from like one stage and one from another and getting their respective viewpoints. And then I'd say lastly, sort of my go to every day as is torn up first in the morning to get me up to speed on news. Also headlines through New York Times and then the AI Daily Brief, which is my go to for knowing what's going on with new models that are being released, new tools, et cetera.
And then because we're in this business, I listen to Pod News Daily with James Kridlin every morning for five to seven minutes as part of getting ready. So that's my. It wasn't three, but close to it. Oh, that was good. That was a great list. I'm. I want, I'm curious about Allison too, since we're all here. Yeah, for sure. My favorite go to morning podcast is the Newsworthy with Erica Mandy. If you want your news in less than 20 minutes. That's fast and fair and unbiased. You guys
should check her out. We met at Podcast Movement many years ago and I watched her go from ideation to a super successful podcaster. So I listen to her every single day. So she's definitely one of my top favorites right now. Love it. Dig that. What about you, Faye? Okay, so top three. The read is up there for sure. I love the read. It's just definitely my reward podcast. And sometimes I'll just save a bunch and just Matt, like all at one time. Yeah. Second, higher learning.
It's just, it's a. It's a great show. I'm actually one of those people that talks to the podcast, so that's also why I appreciate the. The audio version. And third, they don't make it anymore. But Louder Than a Riot was definitely up there, so I was sad to hear that that one ended. But a bunch a lot. But those would probably be top three for sure. Okay, I got a question. Yeah. Apple or Android? Oh, I'm a mixed household. Ooh, nice. This is a Pixel device. So like Google's most googliest
device. And my backstory there is I was working at Amazon. I was part of the team that shipped Amazon MP3 on the very first Android device, the Android G1. We were the only non Google app on the phone. And so from that point forward I was using Android devices. Occasionally I would have an iOS device because I worked for a company that required we had it for the app. So I continue to use Google's devices. And also I just like the integration of all the Google workspace stuff so
tightly with it at the same time. You know, I'm not wearing the headphones now, but there's an AirPods Max. There's AirPods. This is a Mac here. I'm actually on a Mac Cinemas display here. So like every other peripheral, I have an iPad. Like everything else is Apple except for my phone. You guys, this is. I'm like a purple state sort of behavior here. Yeah, yeah. I'm Apple everything. But I used to swear by my Samsung before. I was one of those people
with a BlackBerry. Not ashamed to admit it, but now it's Apple everything. Yeah, I'm one of the rare people that grew up with Apple. So when everyone else had PC when we were little, I had an Apple and I was the weirdo and I never knew anything different. So it's been with me my whole life. My parents had one. Yeah. Including the iPhone. As soon as it Went live. You bought it? Oh, of course I did. There you go.
I've always liked the form factor of them, but I will swear by the Android operating system over iOS, iOS any day. And they have better, they take better photos. Oh, the Android devices. Oh, they're also directly plugged into so I can place my orders and get my lovely little photos on Canvas or Books directly from the photos app. It's really slick, the integration. Love it. I had so many, so many stories in my case with sort of like Android.
You know, I was at a company that did the first sort of NFC feature. Do you remember the bump app in the early teens where you wanted to transfer contacts? Oh. You would tap your phones. So that used what's called near field communication or NFC tech in order to do that. I was at a media company at the time. It was like file management for your local device. So it was called double twist. It was sort
of the itunes for Android. But we created a feature that was tap your phones to sort of handshake with each other if you're using the same app. And then if you're on the same WI FI network, we would allow you to do peer to peer audio transfer between each other so you could share an audio file. So that was our sort of like, you know, we get. That got us featured at Google. I o. I went through this period of time where every year I was trying to get
us featured in some major way. So anyways, deeply intimate relationship with the device, if not necessarily everything else about the company. Yeah, dig that. Okay, so Lucas, where do you see the future of podcasting? It's going to get bigger. So I think the stats were, what was it today that, you know, of 12 plus people in the United States, 55% of them listen to at least one podcast a month. But there's a whole, whole bunch of people that are listening on a weekly
basis, if not a daily basis. The US is only one market. I always think it's interesting to consider podcasting globally. For example, you know, the growth that happened within Indonesia. Indonesia is a top five country or sorry, country by sort of like gdp, by the number of citizens in the country. And they have a massive adoption of podcast listeners going on. South Korea has like a 70% listenership penetration. The Nordics have like 90%. Right.
So South America is one of the fastest growing area with Spanish and Portuguese knowing that sort of the world started circa 10 years ago with a handful of tens of millions of people listening to this thing. And now all of a sudden we're on a path to being over a billion within this year. And that sort of trajectory, you could see it being 2 billion after. That's just a lot of prospective listeners.
Right. Let's get to the other origin story of sort of the flip side of listener discovery is podcasters needing to have a means to be found. And so when, when John and I were contemplating this business, Faye and I know this wasn't the exact question, but there was sort of, you know, using the financial term, secular trends. There were more listeners,
there was more podcasters. And yet I always said that like the delta between the two seemed to be increasing where sort of the parallel curve or sort of like big show penetration was high, but the sort of mid and long tail was just getting longer and longer. So there was a dissonance here between like all this content being created and people that might want to find it.
So this is what I mean about like, I think as soon as discovery gets improved, not just with what we're offering, but ideally with more offerings from, you know, other providers in the ecosystem, you have more listening on more regular basis and more places in more languages. All of that means more content that can be generated and arguably monetized.
And if brand advertisers want to put dollars into the media, then we can do more long serials, potentially we can do higher budget productions if the dollars are going into podcasts, like shoot like they're going into TV today, even though that's like a dying medium in many ways. And people really trust and believe their podcast hosts in a way that they don't trust and believe any talking head on television.
So if you get more dollars into it, it means more of the creators can do more with it, that can turn it into real lives and things can grow into sort of media empires beyond them. So I believe that like historically some f had a bit of a myopic view on what was possible here. And I'm like, oh no, no, we've got data unlock, we've got this multimodal unlock, we've got multicountry shoot.
If I can do language to language translation with voice emulation, sort of like voice cloning, can we do this podcast in 15 languages and distribute across all of them? With the beauty of technology, all of a sudden, our listenership audience could potentially grow. And on the flip side, maybe I want to listen to Venezuelan alpaca futures because I buy commodities and that is covered in a Spanish language podcasts to that
market because it's so key. I wouldn't otherwise gotten that but being able to do this gets me access to it. So I really think it's about this. Our About Us page talks about the sort of post Gutenberg press era where once you were able to put things in print, it fermented many more conversations that were able to happen offline using this as a basis for conversation. Podcasts are a basis for conversation that enable the generation or creation of future conversations
which in turn can make their way back into podcasts. So I'm just excited. Like I think that podcasting says a long form media is phenomenal and probably better than anything else that exists today. Shorter form for sort of like digestion of these, like I need to get it in 20 minutes and it tends to fit really nicely into
things. I don't know. I think there's many reasons why and there is a lot of need or requirement on behalf of sort of like the service providers to do more for the podcasters to help them. The sort of workflow steps, compression needs to happen there. The platforms discovery Beyond a top 250 hierarchically needs to exist. I shouldn't have to only search by the keywords that are in the title of the episode. Like I could go on and on obviously, because these are
things that we think about a lot. But I do think the market's going to get bigger and technology is going to help and sort of interest from different markets is going to increase as well. I think just even looking at like Netflix, where you got like squid games doing really popularly in the United States, like what's the equivalent of like a podcast doing similar potentially with a voice emulation. So if Lex Friedman just did Narendra Modi in India,
they did that in English. What if he did it in Hindi and his voice was in English and then Narendra translated English, would it be consumed differently? Right. So there's just so much technology that can enable like more, more more. Ideally that helps everybody. And what are you seeing in terms of the different ways that
the different generations are consuming content? And you know, you mentioned earlier how we as content creators, as podcasters are kind of the new media and some mediums are less and less trustworthy to certain generations. Right. And some people are turning to Netflix, some people are turning to TikTok, a lot of people are turning to podcasts. What are you seeing in terms of like the generational differences between the ways that people are consuming
content? Yeah, I mean, I'll share mine, but I think you guys are equally as knowledgeable as I am in this space. But you do have Sort of like behavior patterns that seem a little antithetical. Like Gen Z and older gen Alpha that are doing audio and not video for their podcast consumption. Even though they will oftentimes throw YouTube videos in other tabs while they're streaming, you know, you know, playing video games, they're not doing that behavior with podcasting.
And the, the research suggests because they have this like deeper, more intimate connection with the thing and they don't want the distraction, whereas might they otherwise might want that distraction. I think a lot of the older generations also like the audio for the multitasking that we're talking about and being able to do the other thing. So I think there's that. I think discovery
is different amongst these audiences. So like we, we've had talks at the company around where to invest in marketing for sort of the both sides of our business. The side that targets listeners and the side that targets creators. And we know that like the video centric formats are great for sort of brand awareness and affinity, but not as great for or immediate conversion activity. However, like there are certain audiences that exist on those platforms
and that could be partially why like there's. Is that because those channels tend to be TikTok, et cetera, skewing younger and their video there. But if they're listening on audio. Right. There's just these, there's different patterns that are emerging amongst them and some of them I don't think have clear sort of deterministic reasons just yet why that is, but I'm curious to follow it. This idea of like Gen A and Gen Z consuming at higher levels
than previous generations as well. Like if that trend continues, we have the global population I was talking about, but we also just have differences in sort of demographic makeup of listeners too. Yeah, I don't know. What do you guys think? I think you're hitting the nail on the head. And it's funny because podwires just released a study kind of speaking to that point. Shout out to Miguel and Miko over at podwires specifically like saying that millennials and Gen Z, we continue to be the top
consumers for podcasts, but boomers are listening as well. I think It's a solid 12 or 15%, which is pretty solid. And yeah, Alpha Gen is right behind. So I think it will continue to grow. And I think you said this earlier, Lucas, or maybe it was Allison, but the fact that how engaged podcast listeners are, it just makes a difference, you know, between comparison to other mediums. And I think that's why we kind of see and, and Sounds profitable. And Magellan just dropped this data.
The amount of advertising dollars growing over the years is just exponentially different in the podcast space compared to other spaces because we are brand loyal. Like if our host tells us us a thing, we trust them enough to know. Like, hey, you've probably tried this out a couple times. Like, I'm just gonna trust you more because I'm not watching an actor on tv, right? Or in a commercial. Rather, like, you're my friend, I listen to you every week for an hour. So I know you,
you know, so I'm more likely to listen to you. And that goes back to the other discussion we were having with translations. I've seen a lot of dual language podcasts using AI for a translated version of, you know, whichever languages. But I think that's going to continue to make the growth happen. Right. So I think we're on the cusp of, I don't know, maybe it'll be a boom. Yeah, A cusp of an experimentation that is likely going
to continue to grow in the next 10 to 15 years. What I'm finding fascinating is how we're all consuming content in different ways and the different generations are trying trusting different people at different levels. So the younger generations are trusting people online, the content creators, the older generation is trusting people on the news, on their television because that's all
they've ever trusted. But you know, what goes across the board is people that listen to podcasts at any age trust their podcasters over anything. Just like you were saying, because you are forming this bond in your ear. I've had people at our conferences, a lot of us attend a podcast movement podfest. We are podcast Australia. I've had people come up to me and say, oh my gosh, I can't believe I'm meeting you. And then I've done the same,
the same thing to other podcasters. I'm like, hey, it's my best friend. You, you don't know who I am, but I'm your best friend, right? And so, yeah, you're forming these incredible relationships and it is at any age group, at any level where you can form those. And I think that's what fascinates me about podcasting versus any other medium. Because we do, we're there in our ears. Most of us are doing dishes, we're working out, we're driving, we're doing, we're sleeping, we're doing our
day to day activities. Not person is with us sometimes more than a partner, a spouse, a roommate, a friend. Right. They become a good Friend. You do trust what they say, right? And I think that's the most fascinating, exciting, possibly dangerous, but hopefully only exciting thing about this. Yeah, I was gonna say on the friend thing, it's funny because I will refer to the hosts by, like, first name in a way that, like, if it was a media personality, I would probably say the first and last
name. But I was like, ah, yeah, I was listening to Casey and Kevin and da da, da, da, da. Right. And do I do that otherwise? No. But, you know, I spend a big chunk of time hanging out with those guys. Hanging out with those guys, Right? Yeah, yeah, for sure. I love it, you know, to the point of, like, the trust. And there's the content and then there's the machine that sometimes facilitates content. So monetization. That has to happen. Right. And thinking about even things that
happen on the trust basis there. Like Ezra Klein. So I should have mentioned that was like my OG favorite and bought the book, the new book, the Abundance just arrived in the mail yesterday. And, you know, he does his, you know, final question. What are three books, right, that he. That you would recommend? And I would say every episode, I'd probably buy at least one of those books. Wow. It's like proxy of Ezra to who he chooses to be on his show because I
think he does really good guest selection. Right. Or Tyler Cowan Podcast, which is an economist at George Mason University. Like, same. He'll end up asking similar questions. And, like, I trust both of them. I trust their sort of, like, editorial discretion on who they want to bring into sort of like their friendship group. Right. In that respect. So, you know, personally, I definitely have that sort of. Yeah, but that's what. That's what Kevin said when I was listening to it, you know,
entering my life lexicon and how I'm thinking about things. For sure. Highly impressionable in that respect. Podcasters are the influencers of today. And I know everyone can call themselves an influencer, but what does that really mean? Someone who influences popular opinion, Someone who influences the way we think and feel and think about things. Someone who you buy something because they recommend it. Right. That is true influence. And that's what the power of a podcaster can be
to their audience. Who knows, like, likes and trust them. And I know those are industry words your audience needs to know, like and trust you, but it's because it's true. Yeah, it definitely is the. That, you know, you need to think beyond numbers to people in it. And I think when you make that connection with your fans or your listeners, it's like, ever more real.
I think, you know, going back to your point, Allison, around influencers and what they can influence, like, like health and wellness trends within podcasting, you would know this very well. Like, are heavily driven by whether in some cases you feel, you know, there's some controversial figures among this, you know, whether it's life extension, things that you should be doing, or, you know, this is your. Your space and not mine, but like biohackers. Yeah, biohackers, et cetera.
What do people lean in on those friends or we all like, you know, within this space. And folks listening to this meta podcast, you know, this is a podcast election that happened recently. We all know how many times J.D. vance, you know, visited a podcast or that
Donald Trump was on the all in podcast. And maybe the ramifications of Kamala not being on as many podcasts and sort of podcasts being the place now where people definitely want to go and make an appearance, whether it's a politics podcast or it's, you know, call her daddy or something else where they might end up being able to, you know, draw a connection with a larger audience that they
can't get anywhere else. Generally, like, just people aren't. Aren't dialing in in the same way across many of the other media like they would be because it's. I'm here to. I'm here as data gang and it happens to be the person swinging by. But I think it's cool to see all these different means for people to play influence within niche audiences or larger. So it's probably part of the continuing trend of,
like, every person having to develop personal brand equity. And some of those need a massive audience to facilitate that brand equity in some way. Others might be fine with a Thousand True Fans. It just kind of depends on, you know, your goals with doing the thing. Yeah, I love the Thousand True Fans concept, and it works for many niche podcasts and then many podcasts that go far and wide do fabulously. So I'm sure we'll get into a lot of these
super meta topics on future episodes. So Faye and I are helping you, Lucas, create a podcast about podcasting and creating. So what do you guys think that people listening now can expect to hear on future episodes of this show? Yeah, for sure. I mean, knowing that this is meta, it's like four podcasters by cast, by podcasters or those that are enabling podcasters. It's the things that matter to us.
Right. And so I think in that case, it's. It's going to be me ranting about something that I just read or exposed or can't believe Spotify did. You're going to notice recurring theme with me and Spotify, but, like, that just happened or that YouTube is doing, like, that was a bit of a false positive presentation there, a bit of a red herring indication. So we, I assume we will be having some rants here amongst ourselves as
well as guests. We intend on bringing guests, whether more like direct fireside chat conversations or the combination of the three of us chatting with them. Or maybe it's two guests. Faye, you've got some ideas that, you know, we're going to be approaching as well? Oh, yeah, I, I think you, you know, covered it, like conversation being the key and just presenting, you know, all different sides, all different POVs within the podcast space. Because that's the part, the beautiful
part about community, right. Having those conversations. We don't have to always agree with each other, but it's interesting to know, you know, the different perspectives that are presented. So everything that we're chatting about, the water cooler chats, the evolutions chats, the whatever, the discord chats, wherever we are chatting, we want to talk about that here on sound strategy and really just, you know, be honest and
open with each other. And outside of that, outside of those conversations, right, we will talk about, like, different trends, what kind of podcast marketing implementations are happening tactics throughout the space, because there's no one right way to think about discovery or growth. Like different things work for different hosts for different shows. And quite frankly, it's always evolving. Like the same tactics that happened when cereal was a thing probably have changed or evolved to now.
Right. So, yeah, just keeping the space open in conversation and then just having. Allison and I will have fun picking Lucas's brain too, because there's a lot going on up there. So we'll just be grabbing. Well, it'll be fun, fun to bring on the other guests who are also like, subject main, you know, subject matter experts that I can pick their brains. And I
think, you know, this gets to the range of the guest types, right. We're talking like RSS to producers and hosts and how they think about show composition and guest selection and how they create narratives to service providers who are helping with every step of the workflow and maybe how that might provide value for you as a podcaster, if you're a podcaster or those who are supporting them in sort of their journey to being a successful podcaster.
Yeah. And I love a good debate. So it's like we were talking about roundtables and debating different topics like audio versus video could be Riverside versus Streamyard. One of the best debates I ever saw was at We Are Podcast Australia. And and the debate was between two teams came together and they had to argue whether they believed in it or not. Apple reviews matter or Apple reviews don't matter. It was one of the best debates I've ever heard because
you're like, oh, I'm totally on your side. Oh, I'm totally on your side now. And it was fantastic. So just ideas like those. And so if you're listening and you're like, I have a really strong opinion about this and we can find someone with the opposite opinion, I think that would be a great roundtable. We're here. It's not going to be a political debate. No one's going to name call. It's going to be fun, interesting. Everyone gets to
have their say. Everyone has their space to have their say. And then the listener gets to decide for themselves, like you said, what works for them. Absolutely. And talk to us. Send us your questions like let us know what you're thinking. Chime in. Talk. Talk to the show the same way. The same way you talk to the tv. Talk to the show. And I'm going to say it now. We'll have reach out to us at soundstrategyeepcast FM for anything about the show that may change
over time. But we're going to start with that email address and we have a bunch of socials you can DM us at in terms of the company. But about the show specifically, SoundStrategyeepcast FM is a good place to reach out to us. Perfect. Well, Lucas, thank you so much for letting us pick your brain today. Faye, thank you so much for helping me co host and we will see you guys at the next one. Thanks to the both of.