¶ Intro / Opening
COVID-19 has had a significant impact on the sex industry. And snap lock downs and travel restrictions mean that there are times when sex workers require emergency financial relief in order for them and their dependents to stay safe, housed and fed.
Sex workers don't get sick or holiday pay and many have no savings to fall back on. The stigma and discrimination that we face means that some have no proof of earnings to access government support. And of course, migrant workers are often forgotten
Scarlet Alliance and their state and territory member organisations joined together to create an ongoing fund that is hosted on the website chuffed that's c-h-u-f-f-e-d.
Donations are tax deductible, 100% of funds raised go directly to sex workers in need. And most weeks the amount of people appling outweigh the amount of funds raised and sadly people have to be turned away. The link to this fund is in our show notes.
Welcome to Somebody You Love, or, the sale of two titties. I'm Jenna Love.
And I'm Holly Harte.
And we're experts in disappointing our parents, breaching community guidelines and banging the people who vote against our rights.
Before we begin today, we'd like to acknowledge that Holly, me, is recording on the land of the Ngunnawal people, and Jenna is recording on the land of the Darug and Gundungurra peoples.
As usual, it's really important for us to say that we are not able to speak on behalf of the entire sex working community, we have a lot of privileges that not everybody does. And so we're speaking from our own experience. And it's important to keep in mind that the sex working community is incredibly diverse. And we are not representative of it.
As always, the show will discuss adult themes, today, they may be a little bit more out there as well. So definitely a reminder that if you are not an adult, or if you need an adult, you better sort that out.
Yeah, I think based on the title of this episode, you can determine whether it's for your stomach or not. If you're enjoying the show, it would be really awesome if you went on to Apple podcasts and left us a review. And if you rated the show five stars, if you're not enjoying the show, just ignore what I've said and don't go do that. That would be our preference. Thank you.
If you're not enjoying it, definitely keep listening, though. Keep building up our views, our listens, you know, support our advertisers. That's all fine. You don't have to like us, that's fine.
Yeah, but just don't tell anyone that you don't like us. Thanks. And it's super helpful to follow us on social media. We're on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, our handle is @somebodyyoupod as in podcast, we also have a Patreon, where if you sign up for $3 a month you get access to every episode early and without ads, and the tiers go up from there. And there's a whole bunch of fun other goodies you can access.
¶ Main Segment: Pooping in Tupperware & on camera
Today we're discussing unconventional types of bookings, we're going to go through a range of different arrangements or or interactions that we've had during our time in the industry. And we're starting off with non sexual bookings. Even though our job is called sex work, sometimes there's no sex at all.
Yeah, even though like, I'm really passionate about the term 'sex work', and I know both you and I have pulled people up on it before and, and made sure that we are called sex workers because that is the preferred term. Every now and then I go, oh, it is a little bit misleading because our job doesn't necessarily involve sex, and certainly not in the traditional view of what sex might be. I still think it's appropriate. We're still working in the adult industry and we're
still sex adjacent. Sometimes I think like a more appropriate title would be 'intimacy work', but that's the lamest thing that's ever come out of my mouth. So like, I'm not fighting for that. But I think maybe it is a bit more accurate. But anyway,
That's why I tend to prefer 'escort' or 'companion', I feel like they are a little bit more vague without specifying sex, necessarily. But look, I feel it feels a little bit wanky sometimes to say, 'ooooh, escort, I prefer the word escort or companion', you know, fine.
I actually hate those terms, because they're euphemisms. And I think they cause a lot of confusion. But this is a whole other conversation.
Fair enough.
But yeah, I think like the amount of people I've spoken to, and I've been like, 'I'm a sex worker', and they're like, 'What does that mean?' And I'll be like, 'Oh, you might be familiar with like the term escort'. And they literally go, 'Oh, so you, like, go out to dinner with men?' And I'm like, 'Ah, sometimes, but I mean, I have sex with them'. I've literally had people say to me, 'No, no, no, escorts don't have sex with their clients'. And I'm like, 'Ha ha ha, okay, honey'.
Alright. So that's why I don't like those times because I think that they can... but anyway, look, that's a whole other. That's a whole other topic about language. But I think something that surprises a lot of people. For me anyway, in my experience, a lot of the bookings I've had that have been non sexual. bookings have been from younger clients, often people in their 20s. I get less of the purely nonsexual bookings from older clients. And I think sometimes people might be surprised by
that. Especially clients themselves. Like I get a lot of older clients who say to me, oh, I must be easier for you than like the young guys that just want to fuck the whole time. And I'm like, actually, I find older people want to do more fucking than younger people a lot of the time. I mean, everyone's different. But yeah.
That is interesting to me, because that is not my experience at all. I don't think specifically, I find that older clients tend to engage in in less sexual bookings. But for me, it seems to be pretty evenly spread across the board. So it's very interesting that that's your experience. One of the non sexual bookings that I offer, which I'm going to say I'm pretty well known for, but that makes me sound like a bit of a
wanker. I think one of my non sexual bookings that most of my clients know about and some of my Twitter followers is Snuggle Sundays. A few years ago, I noticed that Sundays were my quietest day of work. And I still wanted to do bookings. But I didn't want to do anything that meant that I was going to be burnt out or overworked by by cramming something into that day. So I decided snuggle Sundays would be a really fun
way to do that. I'm certainly not acting like they're, you know, I'm, I've come up with something that never existed before. I'm sure people have done this in various iterations over the years. But the way I sort of thought of doing things was having intimate sessions that were fully clothed and non
sexual. So this means that it could be sitting down and playing board games together, playing video games on the couch and snuggling up together, or even just going into the bedroom and lying together and having a cuddle. So I offer these sessions at a reduced rate than my usual full service sessions. And I was surprised how popular they've become. It turns out that a lot of people want to spend time with someone else in not necessarily a sexual way.
But just having company and close physical contact, which has been really, really nice. And because of the reduced rate, it has allowed people to book many hours and to stay for a whole afternoon. And it gives me a chance to do something different. Obviously, I love sex, and I love getting naked and doing naughty things. But I also really like to just be in the company of someone else and do some fun activities together.
And it still contributes obviously, to my financial wellbeing which is, is also equally important. So yeah, that's actually a massive thing that I offer that that took off more than I ever expected.
So in my whole sex work career, I have always had a flat rate for all of my bookings. So whether somebody wants to spend an hour having sex with me, or they want to spend an hour sitting across the table from me talking, it costs them the same. So as a result, I think I get fewer nonsexual bookings than a lot of other workers, because many other workers will will make non sexual bookings at a cheaper rate, which absolutely makes sense. But it goes a little bit against my philosophy in terms
of intimacy. But something I do get a lot is people who don't want to do anything sexual in the first booking, but who are looking to probably do something sexual in maybe the second or
the third booking. So generally, with these people, we stay fully clothed in the first booking, sometimes there's a bit of kissing, not always, and in my experience, these people are either somebody who might identify as demisexual, and somebody who needs to get to know somebody before they are attracted to them in a sexual way. And also a lot of younger people who are, you know, quite inexperienced, sexually, who have a lot of nerves and you know, lots of stuff going on
around the whole sex thing. And they do just want to feel comfortable with somebody, they want to know that they're not being judged. They want to know that they're, you know, that they're safe, and they're able to be themselves with me. And it's kind of akin to dating. Basically, I've discovered that they kind of want to have like a first date where we don't, you know, quote, unquote, go all the way. When I posted on our Instagram asking for, like common misconceptions around the
sex industry. Somebody anonymously submitted, saying their misconception was that asexual or demisexual people aren't clients of sex workers. And I think that's that's really spot-I thought that was really kind of astute and not something I'd really thought about before, but I've had plenty of clients who would describe themselves as asexual or demisexual. And I've had clients who, you know, may not describe themselves that way but who have trauma around sex, around specific sexual
activities. People who you know, certainly have romantic feelings, but less you know, that are romantic, but asexual, and then I've also had people who are kind of aromantic but who still are looking for connections with another person.
I've definitely had that experience too. I have- ah a few of them. Mostly they become regulars because they like a uh, like as you said, to build that connection. Sometimes they build up to sex and sometimes they just never do. That's not the end goal for them. As with most of our clients, the broader idea is is intimacy in general. And however they want to approach that in whatever time frame is entirely
up to them. I also offer social bookings, which means that they're more of the outdoors sort of things or or not at home cuddled up, you go out to restaurants or go and do activities together, things like that. I usually do charge a lower rate than my full service fee for that. And usually, they're a really fun time. In my experience. I try not to do them too regularly. Because obviously, there's a whole issue of prioritising what is the most lucrative work that's just part
of running a business. And so it's more important to me to do more full service bookings where I can, but every now and then it is really fun to go out with a client and do something different.
Yeah I love social bookings. I don't- as I said, they're the same rate for me, so I think I get fewer, because people are like, 'Oh, that's expensive'. And I'm like, 'Yeah, I am expensive'. But I love doing them. I really look forward to them. There's that variety. And and some some clients come up with really fun ideas. And even just yeah, going out to a restaurant or something like I love the that banter at the restaurant, the bit of the flirting, and then you go back
to the room later. Like, that's all really sexy. And they really, they're fun for us to do something a bit different. But yeah, it's it is about prioritising because that's, that's one of the reasons why I don't charge less for social bookings. Because I'm like, well, I could fill that spot with a more expensive booking, I could earn more money in that time. So it just doesn't make sense for me to charge less for the same amount of time.
Yeah, it definitely does come down to balance in that regard. And so it's not something I could do full time, while also trying to afford a mortgage in the ACT, which is, which is my dream. So that's, that's rough. So yeah, I've been to quite a few restaurants, I've done other activities with clients, a really fun booking that I did with a client was going to the zoo for a whole day
and evening. So he was staying at the Jamala Lodge in Canberra, which means that he got the room for the whole day, we went and did some animal tours together, we got a three course dinner, time in the bedroom, and all that sort of stuff. And we look, the sexual activity was very minimal. We did certainly indulge in a little bit because hey, while you're there, why
not. But for the most part, the experience was just us hanging out together, getting to know each other, and doing some really fun activities with each other. And that was just a blast.
I feel like we've all received questions from potential clients saying, 'Oh, is it weird if we just hang out? Or is it okay, if we don't have sex?' I see this posted on Reddit all the time people being like, 'Oh, would it be weird if I asked a provider just to, you know, just to cuddle the whole time?'. And look, there may be some providers out there who aren't comfortable with that I cannot speak for everyone, of
course. But I think it's like, a lot of our marketing is geared towards the sex side of sex work. Because that's, you know, well, sex sells, that's where the money is, all of that. And we have to put out a very sexy image a lot of the time. I love all of that sort of stuff. And I just wish potential clients knew that it's not at all unusual to not want to have sex or to have very, like, it's quite common to just want to have like a, you know, 10 minutes of sex. And then the rest of it is, is
cuddling or chatting. And there are also people who book us like, not even for intimacy in a in a sensual, romantic sense, but just in a connecting with another human being way. Like, I have a regular client who, some bookings, we will have sex and some bookings, we're just hanging out like mates. Like it's not even a romantic hangout, if that makes sense. Because of my flat rate thing, I never know beforehand what we're
going to do. So sometimes I go in there thinking, I'm going to be having all this sex, and then we're just chatting. And I kind of go to initiate and he's like, 'No, not today'. And I'm like, oh, okay, cool, whatever. So I can see the value in differentiating your bookings for some workers, so that they know what to expect. And they can prepare accordingly. Like that makes perfect sense. But I'm pretty good with the flow. And I like to just rock up and
see what feels right. And I think as a result, I have a few clients who don't want to prepare what's going to happen beforehand. They want to rock up and see if they're in the mood or not. And I guess that's an expensive way of doing it. But if you can afford it, it's, I like that approach to intimacy because we're having a good time. If they feel horny, I can go along with that, if they don't, I can go along with that. And I like that.
It's definitely not unusual at all. It's a, it's a very common thing that a lot of us have seen and a lot of us have done these bookings and it's not weird, and we actually for the most part, have a great time. Once again, we can't speak for everyone but most of the sex workers I know would love to just hang out for the time so definitely don't feel awkward about asking for it. One of my favourite clients is coming over when lockdowns are finished, to just cuddle and have a snooze,
have a nap. Because I don't offer overnight bookings. And so I don't really share that with anyone. And so this client is just going to come over. We're going to set aside a few hours and just nap, have afternoon naps together, which will be really cute.
Oh my god, I love afternoon naps together. That is brilliant.
It's gonna be so nice. There's a, look, there's a possibility we might, we might have a quick root here or there. But the main goal of it is to, is to have cuddles and nap together, which is really intimate and nice.
So for the first time ever, this year, I started offering separate services for social versus sexual things. So with my video calls this year, I started offering purely social video calls where we, you know, we both stay fully clothed, and we just chat and it's very chill. And I've also started offering an add-on to that, where they can get like, I can do a bit of a striptease, we can masturbate together, it can be a sexual call. Now on the one hand, the social ones are
cheaper. So that might sway the statistics a little bit. But what I've been surprised by is that the social calls for me have been far more popular than the sexual ones. And I think that speaks a lot to the way we're all feeling during the pandemic, and particularly people who are stuck in lockdown for longer periods of time. I think it speaks to the real drive for intimacy and human connection, which I've always said is at the heart of sex
work. And even in the sexual bookings, usually, there's a fair bit of chat as well, like that's a big part of it. So yeah, I think it's just interesting to note that the, the social bookings are a bit cheaper. So that might be a factor. But they've also been very popular. And I guess, I mean, you've been doing video calls that are purely social, haven't you?
Absolutely. Last year, I didn't do any digital content or virtual sessions or anything like that, because our lockdown was a lot more relaxed. This year, lockdown in Canberra was very tough. And this delta variant is a lot more threatening in my eyes. So working wasn't an option, I was very lucky enough to be eligible for the disaster payment in Canberra, so I have had some income coming in, but not really
enough. So I thought doing virtual sessions was a nice way to just help supplement my income a little bit, help cover a little more of the bills during lockdown. And also give me a way to connect with people while I wasn't able to physically touch and and be close to people, especially as someone who's single, who lives alone, that gave me a feeling of continuity, and still being connected to people. I don't like to do much sexually in that
regard. Because it just feels like a lot of pressure doing it over the phone and or via zoom. It's just daunting to me. It's not something that I mentally am really prepared for. So I've just been offering just social dates. And it's been incredibly popular. It's taken off far more than I thought it would have. I thought it would just be a couple of people doing a tokenistic chat to me, because they thought 'Oh, poor Holly, she needs a bit of money, I
guess I'll chat to her'. But people have really seemed to enjoy hanging out with me online. And that has been incredibly touching and humbling. And I feel so special that people have wanted as well not just my company but also to contribute to my position during lockdown and to help me with bills and stuff but they also get something out of that connection that I get and it's a mutual enjoyment, that feels massive.
Yeah, I don't know, I imagine you've had the same experience where I've logged on to see a regular that I haven't seen in a few months because we've been locked down. And I, for the first few months of this lockdown, I didn't offer virtual services because I was in a little depression potato hole. So I hadn't connected with these people in a while. And then they pop up on the screen and I'm like, 'Fuck! I've really missed you! I haven't seen you for ages' and we get to catch up.
And I'm like 'How's this going? How's that going?' and and you know, it's that thing of like, these are people that while, yes, the relationship is is a paid for relationship, these are people that I see and that I connect with and that I have, you know naked times with and I know about their lives and I, so you know we have a connection, we have a relationship, whatever that relationship is, it exists. And I've just found it really nice to actually be able to chat
to them. I've gotten a lot out of that as well.
Yeah, every time that their face pops up, I am, my face lights up. I'm like, 'Oh my gosh!', like I get really excited. This burst of endorphins runs through me. I've also met a lot of people that I otherwise wouldn't, particularly because I am a non-touring worker. I only meet clients from Canberra or from places that they've driven or come interstate, you know, just
overnight. I very rarely get to meet people from all over Australia but this has given me a chance to chat to people I've maybe been talking to on Twitter for a long time that I haven't actually got to meet. And that's been so cool, is finally putting a face and a personality and energy and a soul to someone I've been chatting with online for ages. And now that grows this connection that, then I see their name pop up and I go, 'Oh, that's Adam. He's lovely'. And that's really cool.
I am, I was on this panel yesterday. And I if I think of it, I'll leave a link to it in the show notes because it was all about it was called Digital intimacies. And it was all about intimacy, you know, and technology and the way that they intersect, and there was a psychologist speaking, and she said that she's had quite a
similar experience. So I brought up the fact that one of the great things about offering video calls or phone calls and stuff like that has been that it's been a really great stepping stone for a lot of people who have probably been following sex workers on social media for a while, they've probably googled it a bit, all of that, they've thought about it, but it's actually really, really daunting to book a sex
worker. And I feel like I can say that, because I've seen my husband go through the process of booking a sex worker, even though it was me being like, 'Do it, go, do it!'. But I've seen that it's quite nerve wracking. And so and it is, it's so like, especially when you see these glossy photos, it's really scary to be like, 'Hello, I would like to have sex with you', you know,
it's full on. So doing a video, I've had quite a few people who were like, 'Look, I've followed you for years, but I don't know if I have the balls to like, have a booking with you'. But they want to have a 15 minute chat and just see if they can feel that connection, see if they feel comfortable. See if if it's something that they could
conceivably do. And this psychologist said she's found the exact same thing with people accessing mental health resources, that it seems really scary to book in an appointment with a psychologist. But there's been this, and for me, I mean, I haven't seen my psychologist since the pandemic began. Because doing a video call, that actually puts me off, like I want to be in person. But she was saying, for a lot of people,
it feels more accessible. And they go, 'Oh, yeah, I'll just stay in my room, turn my laptop on and have a chat' and that it's been a good stepping stone for them. So that's nice.
I had a video call with someone the other day who said that they've seen my ad around for years. And they've never booked me because they thought I was really high class and posh and fancy. And I was like, 'me???'
Where the hell did they get that idea?
I guess I need to do a photo shoot of me and my hoodie and trackies and like just more showing just how casual and bogan I am. But a combination of the podcast but also having an opportunity to have a chat the other day and see that real side of me that's not photoshopped pictures and, you know, perfectly worded copy on my advertising and just having a genuine connection, really helped to humanise me and make me feel more approachable to him. And we realised that we'd have a great time together.
So that's been massive as well. I spoke to my psychiatrist a week or two ago, and I told her that during the lockdown, this is what I've been doing. And she was blown away. She was shook. She was like, 'What do you mean? How have you been doing your job by zoom?' Like she just couldn't get her head around it.
Well she has too!
Right? We were, we were talking on zoom. It's like 'The same way that you and I are'. And when I sort of explained it to her she was, she said, 'Oh yeah, that makes total sense. And that's really great for people that would have been a really handy thing for a lot of people to connect to'. And I said 'Yes, it's also been wonderful for me'. And then when I spoke to my GP a few days later, she said, 'Oh, in your notes here, your psychiatrist has said you've been doing zoom
from home for your job. And like that's so cool. And can you tell me more'. So my health professionals are fascinated by the way that technology and intimacy and connection are all being intertwined. Obviously, it's something that's become a massive thing in their jobs during the pandemic, but also seeing how it's happening for a lot of jobs, including the sex industry, I guess is is amazing, not just for us as sex workers. But for a lot of people.
Then there are also sexual bookings without PIV, which is 'penis in vagina' sex. Even when there is sexual stuff, the definition is pretty broad and often doesn't even include conventional sexual intercourse, quote, unquote.
Yeah, I think this is a sticking point for me. I've had a couple of sort of arguments, which as we all know, I don't mind a good argument. But with people who have tried to book me and who have said, 'I don't want to have intercourse with you', like essentially saying, I don't want to put my penis in your vagina. And I've been like, 'Yeah, okay, cool. So it's the same price'. And they're like, 'Yeah, but I don't want, I don't wanna have intercourse'. I'm like, 'okay,
that's cool. Yep'. And they're like, 'so is it cheaper?', I'm like, 'No, no,', and they're like, 'I don't think you understand. I don't wanna put my penis in-' and I'm like, 'Oh, I understand. It's just not cheaper'. And, I mean, there are so many problems with that. One of which is, I have clients who don't have penises, so they are not putting their non existent penis in my vagina, obviously, and nobody that doesn't have a penis has ever expected to get a discount because they don't have
a penis. So somebody who does have a penis, thinking that they can get a discount, because they have one but aren't going to use it, or aren't going to put it inside my body is just stupid. It's just like, I'm not gonna say anything profound about that
it's just stupid. And to suggest that somebody who doesn't want to have PIV sex with me, but who wants me to give them a blowjob for an hour, to think that that should cost less is absurd, because I don't know if you've ever given a blow job for an hour, but that is fucking hard work. And this, this goes into my whole philosophy of paying for my time, not for specific sex acts. And there may well be providers out there who, who do charge different rates, if there
isn't PIV sex, for instance. And there's a whole range of reasons why they might want to do that. And that's totally a valid strategy. But assuming that because there isn't sexual intercourse in the strictest sense, that that means that it's it's cheaper is a bit gross, and, and really weird, and just shows a real lack of understanding of our work.
I have quite a few clients where most of the session is taken up by just quiet close cuddling, and kissing and chatting. And the climax of the sexual experience is a handjob. And that's it. And that is enough, and it's exciting for them. And that's for many reasons. I mean, I obviously don't have to explain all the reasons why that would
be. But sometimes there are issues with, you know, erection, maintaining erections, or getting erections, or sensitivity issues or things like, you know, a condom might make them- they're used to having different sorts of sex, without a condom with a partner or something. And so you know, it's just more effective to to give them a handjob. Or just because it bloody feels good when somebody wraps their hand around your cock and rubs it, that's what it comes down to. And if that's what they enjoy,
that's great. But it's actually really common, I think, you know, you sometimes get guys say, I just want a hand job. And it's, a lot of my clients just get hand jobs. And that's part of the experience. And I hope that you enjoy the handjob. And it's a great time, and we do all the rest of the things that make us feel good in the session. But there's certainly no pressure or expectation or anything, that means that you're less-than if you don't want to actually have sex. It's very normal.
I don't think I had ever given a handjob before I entered the sex industry. And I remember the first time my client was like, 'Oh, can you just give me a hand job?' And I was like, 'I don't know if I know how! Shit!' and I think I figured it out. Probably wasn't the best hand job he's ever had, I'd say. These days I like to think I'm pretty amazing at them. But it's something that, I don't know that's, yeah, I love I love a cuddle with a handjob, I think that's really really nice and intimate.
Yeah I really enjoy it too.
And it's something that I feel like in the civilian world handies get a really bad name. Like there's, I hear you know, this thing of, 'Oh, why would I do that? I can just do that myself'. There's that kind of attitude towards it. But I think it's a really intimate experience and and yeah, like you I get quite a few clients who that that describes the
session really well. I also get quite a few clients who, generally older guys, who are maybe no longer able to get an erection or if they do they, it doesn't maintain itself. And they literally just want to come and spend the whole session fingering, going down on me and making, and touching me and giving me pleasure. And they, like they don't even want me to touch their cock at all. We
kiss, normally. Not always. And it literally is just me receiving pleasure, which I'm you know, I couldn't do multiples of that in a day, because that's actually a really full on booking. And this comes back to the thing of it being like 'the PIV is the big exhausting part of it'. Because for me, having penetrative sex would probably be a lot less tiring than having a whole hour of somebody going down on me and pleasing me. I mean that that is more physically exhausting for
me. But yeah, that's not an uncommon experience. And often the guys will apologise. And they will be like, 'I'm so sorry. It's just, is it okay, if I, if, I just really enjoy pleasing you. It's not, my thing doesn't work. There's nothing going on there. But I'd really like that' I'm like, there's no need to apologise. And of course, go nuts!
I had a young fella come over once, who just wanted practice at going down on a woman and he wanted a bit of feedback and guidance. And he booked a session, we didn't do anything else. He came over, big smile on his face. He went down on me for I don't even remember how long the booking was now. And I sort of gave him a bit of feedback and told him what I liked and what I didn't like and how to, I mean honestly, he was wonderful, straight off the bat, like there was, he didn't need
any guidance. And this is actually, I don't know if you'd agree, but for me quite a common thing that a lot of men think that they're not very good at it and I actually go, 'You're actually doing really great! Like, this feels awesome'. And they just sometimes need a bit of practice, but often they don't. Often they're already wonderful at it.
But also the ones who think that they're legends tend to be the ones who aren't great.
Overconfident. So yeah, and then you know, he, up he got with a big smile on his face and left. And that was the entirety of the booking. So yeah, it's definitely not unheard of.
I've done, I do less these days, but in my early days, I did a lot of bookings that were sexual in nature, but not sex in the strictest sense. So I'd describe them as like kink sessions, but I'm certainly not a pro sub, or a pro domme, at all. So they-re sort of a light kink, I guess you could say. I had this client for a couple of years who would turn up at my house, every time he had a bag of tricks. I never knew what to expect. There was some truly bizarre things in
there. He's--to be really frank, he was, he was very overweight, and his penis was not really accessible. He was very aware of that. And he was like, "it's physically pretty difficult to get my penis involved". So that's not what he's there for. And he basically would spend the whole time just like putting things in me, watching me put things in myself, telling me to do all sorts of strange things. I tried a bunch of stuff during that period, and after doing it went, "Okay, well, I won't do
that again". But it was a good period for experimentation.
Was it fun, if not sexually satisfying?
Sometimes, sometimes.
Okay.
Sometimes. It was--I mean, I like to be able to say that I've done stuff. And so I liked it for that sense. I was like, "well, that happened". I like it for that factor, I guess. So one time, he turns up at my house with a big - we call them witches hats, like traffic cone, like a safety...? You know, the big orange, cylindrical pyramid shaped things?
Conical
Conical is the word I'm looking for. I opened the Conical
Conical door, and he was holding one of those and I was like "oh, I don't know if that would be my first guess rightio". And you know, came inside, and he was like, "well, you're going to sit on that". And I was like, "Yes, well, great". So that was strange. Didn't feel I mean, I certainly didn't, you know, feel sexually pleasurable to me, but whatever. And the funny thing was that then this guy, so he would bring
all this stuff. And, and often, like large items, like he would go to Bunnings and get a bunch of things, and then turn up my house, be like "Okay, I'm gonna make this thing". And like, ake a thing out of bits of wo d and whatever. And then, but h 'd be like, "well, I can't ta e this home" because he's marrie . So he couldn't take all this s it back to his wife. So he as like, "you'll have to leav
it here". And I was like, "Well okay", so I ended up--whe we left that house, actuall , I was like, I had this--there was a tiny little ensuite, whic was like, full of his s it, basically. And anyway, so hat afternoon, my husband came h me. And I had left the witch's hat in the middle of the lo nge room. And he was like, babe, what? What's this?" An I was like, "a) I don't think ou want to know and b) I think
you can figure it out". Like it' pointy, what do you what do ou think was going knowing that it had come from a client and that I had done bookings that day. Maybe he wanted you to wear it.
I probably would have enjoyed that more actually. And then I was stuck with this fucking like witch's hat in my house. I was like, "what am I suppose to do with that?
So while you've done some of the submissive sort of things, I have done quite a few of the domination side of things. Again, disclaimer, I am not at all a pro-domme, I have no experience in that regard. But it's something I don't mind, you know, beating a guy up for money now and then, you know, and we have mentioned before our beloved footstool, that was one of those sessions where there was no actual sexual activity at
Were you wearing the shoe? all. It was just somebody serving us and treating us like the goddesses that we are. And
that's wonderful. I also have had a few quote unquote slaves as they like to call themselves who have come over and done tasks for me or driven me to appointments or picked up groceries for me at my request, whatever it is, that they that I feel like on that day, telling them to do various humiliation, things that they're into, or that I decide I'm into, and they have to go along with that's
part of the dynamic. Some of them at the end of those sessions would have me step on their cock, and that would send hem to completion, or they ould just finish from the hrill of the activity itself. o sometimes there was a sexual lement involved, but not lways. I also had another lient who liked to be belittled nd humiliated and fucked in the rse with one of my high heels. So that was not conventional se , but it was definitely se
ual for him. Just another wi d experience in the variety of hings we do
No, no, no, I took it off.
Oh okay
Yeah
But that'd be difficult to-- that'd be more dangerous
I mean in general it's quite difficult because if you think about the shape of a heel, it's quite hard to get the angle right up somebody's arse. So yeah, there's quite a variety of things we can do that are not conventional P in V sex or PIV sex that are sexual still in nature.
One of the reasons that I think it's useful to use the umbrella term of sex work to describe all different facets of the industry is that so many of us have explored different ways of earning an income within the adult industry. So even though both of us are primarily full-service in-person sex workers, particularly at this point in our lives, we have both explored some different avenues.
On more than one occasion, I have sold panties, which is one of those things in the sex industry that's really glamorised and a lot of civilians sort of see content. I've seen it on TikTok and on various TV shows and movies, where people are making a motza out of selling panties. And it's not as common as people think. But there are people out there who actually do it a lot and who
do really well at it. Evie Jones is one I know who sells her panties like hotcakes, people snap those things up and why not? She's gorgeous. I have sold panties on quite a few occasions. Usually it's when I've lost a set you know the bra doesn't quite fit or it's you know, become warped or whatever.
And so I've got this pair of undies spare and yeah, you get a lot of different requests with them whether they want them worn, or they'd like you to masturbate in them, or even people just buy them clean and that's fine. Because of the nature of me being mostly in-person it usually involves them coming over to my place to pick them up, which I think is exciting in itself. But yeah, that's another little way that is sort of sex work adjacent work.
Yeah, I've done a little bit of that as well. It's something that I thought "oh, I might set this up and and get it all going and to really run that as its own business". I found it was sort of more effort than it was worth but similar to you I've had bookings where part of the agreement has been that they're going to they're going to leave with my panties basically. And so that's just like a little add-on kind of thing. And yeah, I quite enjoyed that too. I think that's quite
fun. I did have one of my favourite sets of lingerie, the knickers went missing. And to this day, I've never found them and I'm fairly certain that someone stole them. And I will never not be annoyed about that.
It used to happen a lot in brothels that clients would walk out with the workers underwear and yeah, that was bullshit.
Just aw, man. Like far--that's bullshit. Anyway, I did a video call last year that I found quite unique, where the client beforehand sent me a list of my bikinis because I have a lot of swimwear and lingerie, etc, and it's all over social media. So he had gone through and said "this one, this one, this one. And so can you have all of those ready and I just want to watch you change into them". And I spent--literally the entire video call was him sitting and watching me change.
He'd be like, "okay, now could you put like the green one on" and so I'd take what I had on off and put the next one on. I sort of tried to do it in a bit of a sexy way, but it wasn't about it being a striptease, it was just changing bikinis. And we there was a little bit of chatting. Like I was like, you know, "what are you up to?" or whatever. But genuinely 90% of the booking was him watching me change into different swimwear.
That's actually really cool. I love that sort of novelty
It was reall fun.
Yeah, it's something different and really unique. I have a client who likes to purchase my poop. So as we've discussed on the show before I do offer brown showers. This is something that is not for all clients. In fact, it's for a very select few. It's a very niche kink as far as they go. And I know it's not too many people's tastes, so please still think I'm attractive, even though people like my poo
Spoiler alert. Holly does poo. She is a woman.
Yeah, yeah, n o, I'm human. I'm human. And I do defecate like every other human.
So she may as well monetize it.
Definitely. So one of my clients on occasion has come over for a booking who usually has any variety of showers that I do. And on this occasion hadn't booked a brown shower, but I said, "Oh, I I think I could go to the toilet. Do you want to--?" and the client said to me, "oh actually, if you could like put in a container?" and that sort of became I think the beginning of this scenario where I would just sell this client containers of my poo. And look, it's not like I boxed them up and keep them
for weeks at a time. It's something that sort of just coincides when a bookings coming up and it's in a little takeaway container and in a bag it's like a little Uber Eats and off you go. And yeah, it's very novel. And it's cool.
I got to say the first time Holly told me about that I was quite shocked. I hadn't heard of this pooping in Tupperware and and somebody takes it home with them. I was like, "What?" I didn't have any issues with it, but I just thought, yeah, it was, you know, it's rare these days as a sex worker to be surprised by things. And that really surprised me.
There's apparently a worker who like freeze dries her poo or something. And she mails it. I don't know if you've heard of this, but I can't remember who it is. And obviously, I'm not going to say it, even if I did. You know, that person may not want that out there. But they, yeah, they mail their poop around the country to various clients who request it was just incredible. I was shocked as well.
So it's now it's time for my poop story. So the How is that not a crime? Like that's just-- poop talk is continuing, my apologies. A few years ago, I decided to set up an online store so that I could sell panties, this was around that time, and sell custom content, and you know, Polaroids and
things like that. Whenever I offer custom content, I always have a little disclaimer that's like, "hey, please get in contact with me first, before you book in for this, because I need to make sure it is something that I can do for you. And that your expectations are, you know, reasonable". And all of that. Quite quickly after setting up the store. I had somebody contact me and asked if I could poo on film. And I was like, I mean, yeah, why not?
Like I I poo all the time. So I--sure I mean, I can film it happening. It's something that happens anyway. And I was so excited because this was my first ever, this is my first inquiry on the online store. And it was my first time taking a custom video request. And I was like, "Fuck yeah, I can do it". I think many sex workers listening will be able to I do not know and this is--my husband and I are always going identify with the curse of undercharging when you're new to
something. And I can't remember I think for a one minute video, I was charging something like 60 bucks. And I hadn't really thought about if it would be extra if it was kink or anything like that. So it was gonna cost this guy 60 bucks. I was chuffed. I was over the moon about that. I was like, "This is so cool". I told my husband and he was like, "ew". And he was just like, "Alright, if that's something you want to do", and I was like, "Yeah, why not?" And so then, but then I was like,
Oh, wait a minute. Like, normally when I go to the toilet, I'm sitting on the toilet, right? And I can't get a "What the hell is this?" Okay, like PayPal does it all the camera like in the bowl. And then I was like, Oh shit, okay, hold on. I hadn't really thought it through. And then I went to the hooker brains trust. And I spoke to some sex worker friends. And I was like, does anyone know how to how do I do this? And a couple of pro dommes commented and gave me amazing
advice. And somebody suggested that I like put a mirror down on the floor, put Glad Wrap over it, squat over the top of it, and then record it happening. So then you get like the mirror image, you can wrap up the Glad Wrap straightaway. And so that's what I did. I did it on like bin day so that I could immediately put it in our bin and then it would be taken away. Because I just didn't want it like lingering around for too long. As I was doing it, I was like, "oh god, this is horrific. I'm
never doing this again". And it smelt and I was like, "No, I do not--I am not having a nice time". And then cleaning it up. I was like, "What have I done?" I didn't enjoy it. But looking back at the video, I was really impressed with the quality - li e I was like, that looks grea . I was really impressed with it. Anyway, I sent off the video the client had paid in adv nce, which is essential for any
hing like that, of course. And then what happened very soon fter that my account was shut do n by the payment processor Sq are. And of course, I know now that every payment processor ever shuts down your accounts and most of them will take the unds that are in there. So his oney was sitting in that accoun , his paltry 60 bucks, which I time--PayPal has earned a fucking motza from deleting sex would never offer something lik that for that price these days. Well, I've decided I'm not going
to do it. So I won't offer it f r any price. I don't think.. well, I don't know, maybe - th re's always a price. Anyway, h had paid that money and i was sitting in the Square acc unt. And they deleted my accoun and would not send any of the unds through. So that money and what else was sitting in ther was just taken fro worker's accounts and just keeping all the money. So one thing I love is that now that's
a story that I can tell. And I'm like, "Yes, I pooped on camera, and I didn't even get paid for it". So would I do it again? No, I don't intend to do it again in future, but I think it's hilarious that I did.
Firstly, do you still have that video?
I don't know.
Because if you do, I might know someone who wants to buy it to be honest with you. Secondly, I'm going to break your heart because my client who likes to buy my poo, sometimes we're just having text chat and I'm like, oh, this is so much information. But I'm like "oh I have to poo, do you want to watch?" and they say "Yeah", and so I just literally hold the phone behind me in the toilet and film it and it looks fine.
Like it works perfectly. You didn't need a mirror or Glad Wrap, you can literally--it's fine, like, and I send that to them for fun and for free, but because I think they're wonderful.
Well, that is devastating information. So now that we've told you all about our pooing, I think we've well and truly come to the end of this, this topic, and I hope some of you still find us attractive in some way.
Yeah, the point today is to discuss the fact that not all bookings have to be strictly penis in vagina sexual intercourse, or even penis in any orifice. It can be a multitude of things that we do in a booking, and even outside of a booking, the wild and wonderful world of escorts
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¶ Misconception: people with kinks must be weirdos
Our misconception this week is people with kinks must be weirdos. I've had particularly new clients or very vanilla clients before say to me, "I saw that you offer this sort of kink", or maybe I tweeted something about it. And they say "oh my gosh, that you know, I'm really normal", you know, and normal is fine, and vanilla is fine. But they sort of--the insinuation is that having a kink must mean that you're a
little bit strange. And I think in society as a whole people have this idea that people that are into kinks are weird people, but I guess we'd just like to dispute that because most of my kinkiest clients are the people in society that you would least expect. They're the most conventionally successful, some of the most educated, the most variety in their careers, and super likeable and charismatic and normal, not even fitting
into those categories. But just such a wide variety of people have kinks that you really couldn't pick it from the outside.
Yeah, something that really gets to me is something like a foot fetish, right? Like foot fetishes are the butt of so many jokes. And that's always--like I feel like that's always pitched as the most like weird wacky depraved thing. Like it's so often like, "Oh, I don't I don't have a foot fetish" and I have lots of clients who are quite vanilla, and absolutely there's nothing wrong with that. And they'll say "oh, I'm not like a weirdo with a foot fetish
or anything". And I'm like, "do you know how common foot fetishes are?" So many people have foot fetishes. I'm a real foot lover. I wouldn't say that it's a fetish at all or that it's even a kink but I just think feet are fucking awesome. I think they're great. Like they hold up our whole bodies. I just think they are bang-on, underrated parts of our bodies.
Always the pragmatic--
Always, yes. And I have and you know every kink or fetish has like there's always a spectrum, right? Like I have clients who are hardcore foot fetishists and you know that the foot is what turns them on. They're very rare in my experience I also have clients who just like a little bit of like dirty talk about feet or or like to hea--something I really enjoy is somebody like massaging and playing with my feet while someone's penetrating me. I really enjoyed the way that feels
I'm obsessed with that. Yeah, a client did that unexpectedly a few months ago and I went "oh my god".
Keira Swanson was the first person who did that with me and she would she did it one time in a double - a guy was having sex with me and she was behind him and started like massaging my feet and I was like, "This is heaven". And that's always a trick like she is always her go to with me, and she knows that works so well. But yeah, absolutely love that. And so, I mean, maybe you wouldn't classify that as a foot fetish because I don't need that
to get off. Yeah, I mean, my point is just there's a lot of people out there who like feet in lots of ways It's very, very common. So for it to be this whole, like, "Oh, I'm not a weirdo with a foot fet--". Like, what? That's not a thing. And something like pegging, for instance, which is generally where a woman will use a strap-on on a man -that is so common. There are a lot of men who either absolutely love that, or who are at least interested
in trying it. Like a lot. A lot of guys and I'm talking about, you know, big, beefy trucker guys, I'm talking about
Oh, yeah,
Accountants. I'm like, I'm talking about everyone. Like it - that is a really common thing. I do it a lot. I really, yeah, I really love it. And yeah, as I said, at the very least, people wanting to try these things is really common and may not be their kink, they may try it and decide they don't like it, but it is insanely common. And I get a bit sad when I have clients that are nervous to bring it up to me. And they're like, "Oh, I think it's okay to bring it up to you.
Because I think you do this with other people". And I literally, I genuinely have people say to me in 20 fucking 21. They'll say to me, "I'm not gay. But I was thinking about trying pegging". And I'm like, MATE. You do not like, I mean, it's a shame that you're not more queer, but it's okay. Like, I can accept you as the straight man that you are, it's FINE. Like it just it blows my mind that they that people still feel the need to say that, but it's not, that's not their
fault. That's society's fault.
There is no correlation between enjoying anal stimulation and your sexual orientation. It doesn't mean anything, if you like your butt stimulated as to who you prefer to sleep with. So people who have kinks are not weirdos.
And there's a lot more of them than you might
¶ Shit People Say: ’You might have to get a real job’
think. Today for Shit People Say, Holly is going to tell me a story. And I'm keen to hear it.
It's not a very long story. But it was a disappointing encounter I had recently. Obviously, during the pandemic my work structure has changed. And a lot of the people
My question for these people is always what is a in my life know that I do sex work. Recently, I bumped into an acquaintance who said something about, you know, "how are you going?" and I said, "Oh, you know, a little bit bored, but you know, fine". And she said, "I suppose you'll have to, you might have to get a real job". And I, I honestly didn't even indulge it with a response. Because it was just such a joke of a statement, you might have to get a real job. And I'm like,
real job then? What is it that you define as a real job and What qualifies a real job to you? I make a living, I make a decent living, I pay tax. I provide a service to the I've had different responses to that and there are people who community, which I think is productive, and I create something that I think brings the greater good, I enjoy what do, all of these things, I empl y a range of skills to do th s work. There's so much about i , that to me, it's a real job.
I feel like I don't have o justify that to our listener , because I think you're a l pretty much on board that wh t we do is work. But it was ju t such a backwards thing. F r somebody who knows me and w o knows how passionate I am abo t my job to say you might have o get a real job. What do you wa t me to do, Susan? Do you want e to go work down at the loc l Woollies for well below t e average Australian wage? Oka , sure, it might be above t
e award wage. But still, it's n t enough in Canberra for one erson to survive on to do reta l hospitality. And I'm sure peop e who are listening who have done those jobs will agree that as an adult paying your bill and rent and survive--not just surviving but thriving, on a mi imum wage is incredibly diff cult, let alone doing a job that you don't feel any passion for. So yeah, the expectation that that somehow is more of a vali job than my job just becau e I can't do mine in the middl
of a pandemic is wild. How m ny other jobs have been shut own during the pandemic? Many obs, many people are unable t do their jobs at the moment And that doesn't make them a y less valid as employ ent. It's just a side effect of a horrible thing that we're oing through in the world at the moment. Anyway, maybe this w s just an opportunity for someon to voice their own intern lised whorephobia, and that' something that I guess you l ve with when you do work in th sex industry.
say things like something where you have to be like educated to do and fuck that I mean that's the most classes bullshit I've ever heard. You know, we--sorry so that means that a janitor for instance is not a real job
Or sales roles or office management roles.
And then the other comeback is somewhat like with an employer. So self employment doesn't exist, and self employment shouldn't exist. And freelancers and contractors shouldn't exist? The argument just doesn't hold up. When you say okay, define to me what a real job is. They pretty much define sex work because it is a real job. Like it just, it's just absurd that we're having this argument. The amount of people who have lost their jobs or had their jobs suspended because of the pandemic. I mean,
would this? Well, Susan, would Susan be going up to everyone else and saying, "Oh, you might have to get a real job?" Or does she just think that's okay to say because you're a whore?
¶ Question of the Week: How do you both feel about younger clients?
Our question of the week is, how do you both feel about younger clients?
When I first entered the industry, I was quite
In my first years in the industry, I quite liked apprehensive about younger clients. My personal experience, I had only ever been involved with people that were older than me, and generally significantly older than me. And I think I've said on the show before that one of the things that appealed to me about the industry was that I thought that I would be mostly seeing older clients, in particular, older men. So I was surprised when I first started getting clients who were younger
than me. And I felt and you know, I'm not proud of this feeling. But I was like, "Oh, god, what do I do with younger men?" And I sort of felt a bit uncomfortable. And I was like, I just--it was kind of a new experience for me. And I think a lot of that actually came from self esteem issues and stuff, because I just didn't see what a younger man would see in me. And I just felt like I kind of wasn't good enough to see someone my own age, which is
some weird, twisted logic. And that is a whole other conversation. But pretty quickly, I got used to it. And now I don't have any problems with it. I will say, when we're talking about like younger, like, 18/19, I want to be coo with it. But that that doe weird me out a little bit. I've had a couple of clients who I've sort of gone, "Oh, God, do I nee to check your ID?", and it ju
t, you know, I'm 33. So someb dy who's 18 like at this poi t, it's only going to be a cou le more years for me where t at person is half my age. An I feel a bit icky about that I think that people who are ho are 18 should absolutely be a le to hire sex workers and sho ld have agency over their ex lives. But I don't know, it j st makes--it freaks me out a li tle bit and makes me feel a
bit uncomfortable. So I don't now where I sit with this sor of 18/19 year olds, but clie ts in their 20s I see plenty f and I'm comfortable seeing younger clients, I thought, I don't know, I just sort of liked the lightheartedness with a lot of them, I find that they were just a little bit more simple, for lack of a better term, they, yeah, just seemed a little bit more casual in my experience. And that was fun, usually a little bit more lighthearted, a little bit more playful and
silly. So as the years have progressed, I've found that I don't love seeing younger clients as much, I might have just had a few less than ideal experiences with them. So I don't write them off immediately, it's fine, I'll give everyone a chance once Well, not everyone, I will give most people a chance. But I find that a lot of younger guys, particularly when they haven't had a lot of sexual contact with a lot of other women or even when they have, they've learned a lot of what they know about
sex from porn. And so their idea of sex is 'I must be hard for and hold off for as long as I can and pound away as hard as I can, and try to milk every single dollar out of this session'. As we've said before, that's--I get that you want to make the most of your session, and that's totally cool. But also we're human beings. And we do have mortal physical forms that do endure pain and feel emotions and exhaustion. And yeah, it's just not really practical to have somebody treat
you like a fuck doll. And it doesn't feel really nice. It's not something where I, I look forward to seeing them again, I find with my older clients, usually a lot of them have been married, or they've just had longer relationships, or they've just matured enough to respect
me as a human being. And to really see the value in our time together being more than just thumping away at me with their genitals that we get to enjoy things like each other's company, some funny stories, physical contact, a few other bits of foreplay, and sex. And all of those things are really important to enjoying the session, rather than the focus on just being put my dick in it for as long as possible. So that's the difference that I
usually find. So I do tend to prefer older clients, I find they're more considerate, they're more and this is very generally they're more considerate, they're more generous, they are more understanding, and they see me as a human. But also I have had a lot of really lovely younger clients. It's just that that's not as common a situation for me.
Something I've really come to enjoy, which might sound ridiculous is seeing clients that are a similar age to me. So as I said before I entered the sex industry. I had not had any like sexual contact with people my own age. And when I started doing that at work, I was like this is so weird, and I really enjoy it because I'm like oh, we are contemporaries, we have the same references. We've had like similar life journeys. Yeah, it sounds so basic to be like, Oh, I was able to connect
with people my own age. But that is genuinely how I feel. And now like when I have clients in their 30s I'm like, awesome. We just we there's kind of an instant connection there a lot of the time because we just have a lot in common. So I just wanted to say that that has been quite a nice discovery for me. It's time to thank our wonderful patrons. This week, we have a new Giving Somebody who is Lily. We have some new Generous Somebodies. They are John, Dan,
Ellie Bea and Hicksy. And we have a new very generous somebody who is Kyle.
My darling friend Kyle, our Even More Generous Somebodies are Timmy, Andrew, Adam Smith, Leo, Lachlan, Sub London, Miss Billy, Nora Knightley, Lesley, Scott Watson, Andrew, Big M, Our secret admirer, Mudgee, Margaret, Weezy, John T and Celeste
Our Extremely Generous Somebodies are Aaron, Samuel, Andrew, Pete, Theodore Betts The First Esquire, Amanda Valentina and the wonderful Sienna Saint
As always, thanks so much for listening and supporting the podcast. Don't forget, if you can to please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. And we hope we haven't turned you off with any of the poo talk today. Keep thinking of us as sexy, ethereal beings that don't poop. Thank you.
Bye. Please look out for us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Patreon. Our name everywhere is somebodyyoupod as in podcast. Our Patreon starts at just $3 a month, and you can get all of our episodes ad-free and a day early. Plus bonus episodes, behind-the-scenes action, bloopers and more. Thank you for taking the time to listen to the voices of sex workers. And remember, Somebody You Love might just be a sex worker.