From the brains behind Brains On, it's Smash Boom Best. The show for people with big opinions. Hi, I'm Molly Bloom, and this is Smash Boom Best, the show where we take two things, smash them together, and ask you to decide which one is best. Today, the ultimate immortal rivals go fang to claw in a bloodthirsty debate. In one corner, we've got vampires. And in the other, werewolves. Which terrifying tormentor will win this Smash Boom battle? With such a monstrous matchup, it's hard to say.
Luckily, Kate is here to help us decide. Hi, Kate. Hello. So, Kate. When I say vampire, what comes to mind? I think of Twilight and The Vampire Diaries. Yes, I watched all of it, unfortunately. And what about werewolves? What are your associations with werewolves? I think they're pretty cool. Whenever I think of vampires and werewolves, I always think of like Team Jacob and Team Edward in Twilight.
Edward was the vampire in Twilight and Jacob was the werewolf. So, Kate, are you team Jacob or team Edward? I'm team Jacob. Would you say that you already think one of these fictional sides is cooler? Um, just like going into the debate, I guess I like werewolves a lot, but also I think vampires are cool too.
All right. Well, I think you are the perfect judge for today's debate, and I think it's time to meet our debaters. Here to defend the historically Transylvanian team vampire, it's Anna Wegel. Hi, Anna. Hi. This is spooky and fun. So, Anna, tell us in a single sentence, why are vampires the smash boom best?
Vampires are the smash boom best because they are scarier, toothier, more powerful and more deadly than any creature on the face of the earth. And if you don't agree with that, then you're in some serious danger. And here to represent werewolves, those mythical beasts that have been clawing their way through fiction for thousands of years, it's Tracy Mumford. Hi, Tracy. Oh, hello.
In one sentence, why are werewolves cooler than vampires? Werewolves live a wild double life where they get to go out like normal people during the day, you know, in the sun. But then cut loose with super speed and super strength at night. All right. Excellent arguments already. Let's review the rules of the game. Round one is the declaration of greatness. Using facts, logic, and top-notch storytelling, our debaters will present the most persuasive arguments for their side.
After each declaration, the opposing team will have 30 seconds to rebut their opponent's statement. Then we've got the micro round, a creative challenge each side has prepared for in advance. Round three is the sneak attack, a surprise challenge debate. And to top it all off, we've got the final six. In this round, each team will have six words to make a closing case for their side. Our judge, Kate, will award one point after each round.
she'll keep her decisions top secret until the end of the debate. Listeners, we want you to judge too. This is a tough one, so mark down your points as you listen. At the end of the show, head to our website, smashboom.org, and vote for whichever team you think won. Okay, everybody, are you ready? Yes! Let's go. Then it's time for the Declaration of Greatness. Our debaters will present the most fascinating facts and awesome arguments in favor of their side. We flipped a coin and Anna...
You're up first. It's time for a declaration of greatness for those shadowy hunters of the night, vampires. Vampires are the greatest, most deadly, and horrifying creature in the history of the world. And let's be honest, they're fun for us to think about because being scared is super fun. It's really the whole point of Halloween, besides the candy. Let's explore this further. So exactly what is a vampire? If you're a fan of the Twilight books and movies, which I definitely, let's face it, am.
You might think a vampire is a cute boy named Edward who's very cold in body temperature, but also in his demeanor in the way that he seems distant and unavailable. That's only because he's never found his one true love until he does fall for a human teenager. And then he has... fight to protect her both from the dangers of the world but also the dangers of his own cold skin.
How long have you been 17? A while. Okay, yes. But vampires are so much more than a 17 but really 119 year old cold dead lover boy. Throughout history, vampires have been described as terrifying undead creatures that hate sunlight, so they sleep in coffins during the day because normal beds aren't creepy enough for them.
And legend has it that they feed off of human blood that they get from biting their victims' necks with their super sharp and pointy teeth. But don't worry. Vampires aren't real. They're a piece of what we call folklore, a story that's passed down from generation to generation. Hello! One second, Dracula. Can I talk now? If you could just hold on one minute. So vampires are not cute. They're basically hungry all the time. Can I say hello into the microphone? Jack, please.
Can you just hold on for one second? I'm trying to talk about your species and provide some background info. Background info. Oh, good morning. I am news reporter. I have info for you. Okay, so yes, there's something I need to tell you. I know a vampire. His name is... I am Dracula! Yes, he's Dracula and he's...
the most famous vampire of all time. That's right, Edward Cullen. Move aside, Nosferatu. I am number one vampire. So do you want to tell your story? Once upon a time, there was an Irish boy named Abraham Stoker. Or Bram, as I like to call him. And in 1897, Bram Buddy wrote a book about me called Dracula, which is my name. Dracula, named after me, where I travel from Transylvania to England and battle Professor Abraham Van Helsing.
I curse his name! And although Dracula isn't the first vampire novel, it is one of the most famous, and it even prompted Sherlock Holmes author Sir Arthur Conan Doyle to write a letter to Stoker saying, quote, Diableri. Great word. It means reckless mischief and charismatic wildness. I searched it on Google. Google. Glue glued. Google. Gubernatorial. Okay.
But Dracula was just the start of Vampire Mania. Since then, we've created countless other iconic stories, like Anne Rice's interview with the vampire, The Swedish Let the Right One In, Stephen King's Salem's Lot, TV shows like Buffy, Vampire Diaries, What We Do in the Shadows, The Originals, Legacy, Shadowhunters, V-Wars, and How Can We For- Clearly, we humans love vampires. Why?
Because they're incredible! They're smart, cunning, powerful, charming, and they're stylish. They don't run around in ripped-off flannel shirts and jean shorts with their hairy arms and dirty legs. Like werewolves. They wear sleek, tailored clothing with flowing capes. They make it work. Plus, they're the embodiment of one of our greatest fantasies. Immortality.
Who hasn't wondered what it would be like to stay young forever? Humans love vampires because they have so many qualities that we don't. Some of us, if we could choose, would be them. But we can't. Because they're not real. Yes, we are, Anna. No, you're not. But you know what is real? Like, really real life real? Vampire bats.
Oh, I love those. Their noses look like little leaves, and they eat fruit, insects, and they drink blood. There are three species of them, and they live in South and Central America. And after they bite their prey, they leave the classic two-prong bite mark on their victim's skin. Wait, so what does that have to do with anything? I'm just saying.
that if you don't believe in vampires, then just know that in real life, there is a creature that is real, that could actually bite your neck, and word in the street is they target people who don't believe in vampires. Oh. You are so scary. That was a dractastic declaration of greatness. Kate, what did you think about Anna's declaration? What stood out to you about her argument? I liked the tie-in with the vampire bat.
This is going to be a hard debate. Tracy, it's time for your rebuttal. Channel that wild werewolf energy because you've got 30 seconds to let it fly. And your time starts now. Okay, I noticed you kind of skipped where you live, my vampire friend. You live in a coffin. Sounds pretty creepy. Kind of cramped. You also kind of brush past the fact that you can't go out during the day, so...
I don't know if you remember this thing called the sun, but it's beautiful. I enjoy walking in it without fear of burning. burning to death that's just the thing that i like also you tried to fashion shame my werewolf friends which like okay pulling out your gucci and versace what do vampires wear The clothes they dyed in. All right, Tracy, it is your turn. We want to know why werewolves deserve to be crowned the smash boom beast. I mean, best. Imagine.
You're up in your bedroom. You're feeling kind of itchy, kind of antsy. Something feels different. Everyone else is asleep. The house is quiet. It's getting late. You push back the curtains and look out the window. Is that a full moon? You look down at your hands and your nails are looking really sharp. Actually, are those? Are those claws? And where's all this fur coming from? It's busting out of your clothes and you're starting to feel really, really powerful and... What was that? Did you...
Did you just jump out of your bedroom window and smash with the glass and land on the sidewalk? Yeah, you did. Oh, wow. Look at that moon. It is huge. It's calling to you. Suddenly you're running down the street and you have never run faster. You've never felt more free. Okay, you're kind of hungry now that you think about it, but mostly this is incredible. You're so excited. You just let it all out. Congratulations. You are a werewolf. Welcome to the pack.
Now, you've seen howling, growling werewolves in Twilight and Teen Wolf and Hotel Transylvania, but stories about people transforming into wolves have actually been around for almost 4,000 years. is as old as time. That's Dr. Colleen Lucy, who has taught classes on werewolves and vampires at the University of Arizona. These stories go way, way back.
The tales were recorded on clay tablets in approximately 1700 BCE. Paper had not even been invented yet. And these stories, they come from all over the world. Different regions all had different versions of the same myth. Australia had its own werewolf myth, and Africa had its own werewolf myth. Europe had its own werewolf myth. Asia had its own werewolf myth. There was something about that primal story.
that everybody could relate to throughout time. That's Benjamin Percy, who writes novels and Marvel comics. He's researched and written a lot about werewolves. Now, in Some Stories and Myths... Being a werewolf is called a curse, which I disagree with because, you know, in other stories, it is a total superpower. If you think about just like straight up superhero characteristics, right? You've got... Great hearing, super sight, super smell. You're really strong, can tear stuff apart.
Sometimes werewolves have to wait until a full moon to shapeshift from a human to a wolf, but not always. There are lots of stories where they can change on demand, like snap your fingers and boom, wolf time. The story of the werewolf is no different than the story of the Incredible Hulk. This makes werewolves basically superheroes. Werewolves are also super in touch with nature.
Sometimes our lives can get kind of overwhelming with all of our phones and our texts and our Zoom calls. And honestly, who doesn't just want to take a long walk or, you know, maybe a run outside through the trees while covered in fur? Contrast, vampires suck the living life of others. They give nothing back. And therefore, werewolves are much truer to the natural world. You might be asking, why a werewolf?
Why not a were-elephant or a were-hamster? First of all, absolutely no one wants to be a were-hamster. And werewolves are amazing because wolves themselves are fierce. They're brave. They're loyal. They also look out for each other and travel as a pack. They are definitely the crew you want. Plus, in other cultures around the world, there's not only werewolves. There are stories about turning into all kinds of powerful animals, like tigers, or my favorite, werebears. Like a werewolf, but a bear.
But another cool thing about werewolves, on top of the shape-shifting, the superpowers, all that time out in nature, the really tight crew of friends, and your werebear cousins, is that deep down inside... We are all a little bit werewolves. So we've all had that moment right when our temper gets the better of us and we kind of freak out. And the story of the werewolf is a metaphor for that.
We have all wolfed out at some point in our lives. We have howled out loud because we're angry and we've jumped off the back of the couch and we've torn through the house and we've just wanted to run out into the woods and get away from everybody. We've been super, super hangry. We've broken into a shepherd's field and eaten three sheep in one night. Okay, maybe not that last one for everyone.
But that is where these werewolf stories come from. All those times where we just can't take it anymore and we feel like we can't fit in with everything that people expect from us. So we let loose. We become... The animal within us that is actually true to ourselves. Werewolves. It's this amazing double life. You've got your normal side, and when you need it, your wild side. You can walk around outside.
in the sunlight looking at you vamps but also you get to run howling through the woods at night Your majestic fur is blowing in the wind. You've got super speed, super strength, super smell. You can shapeshift as you please. Or maybe you have to wait for the moon. And you get to just cut loose when you need a break from the world and let it all go. Plus, let's not forget, you're not dead. Looking at you again, vampires. Not being dead seems like a pretty good perk. Werewolves forever.
That was a super powered declaration of greatness for werewolves. And I feel like probably all of our listeners right now just want to go. Yeah, no, that was I loved that. I liked hearing a little bit about the history of werewolf stories. Also, I think it'd be hilarious to be a werehamster. They're not making your job easy. No, it's really not easy. No. Well, let's hear.
Let's hear what Anna has to say to try to sway you. Anna, you have 30 seconds to make your rebuttal. What were the weaknesses in Team Werewolf's declaration? And your time starts.
Now. First of all, so you're sleeping in your bed and then you feel itchy and your nails get dirty and long and your clothes don't fit anymore and you break through your window. Like, who's going to clean up that glass? You're not going to do it. And I'm sorry, did you say you interviewed Ben Percy? Because I'm pretty sure that was Darth Vader.
and I don't understand why Darth Vader is talking about werewolves. Thirdly, you never said why werewolves change. Like, what is the purpose of turning into an animal besides being in touch with nature? And fourthly, Kate, thank you for bringing this up. I have a cousin who's a werehamster and he's a really nice guy. So I resent you saying that no one would want to be one. Oh, Kate, it's time to award your first points. Remember, we're asking you to judge based on one simple thing.
Which one is cooler? One point for whoever had the best declaration of greatness, and another point for whoever's rebuttal won you over. I've awarded the points. Was it a tough decision? It was tough, but... I feel confident, so. All right, it's time for a quick break. Get your howls out, drink some blood, whatever you need to do. And we'll be back with more Smash Boom Best.
Todd Douglas here, along with 235-time debate champ Taylor Lincoln. I'm one of the greats when it comes to debate. Yeah. Catching freaky fallacies, I set debaters straight. As do I. Come on! Come on, Todd, cheer with me. Maybe later? But Todd won't... take the bait. Alright, so I just caught two teenage girls in the bandstands of a high school in Palm Desert debating whether they should have to wear uniforms to school.
Or not. Uniform. Or buck the norm? Yeah, Todd. You're getting the hang of it. I know, I know. Just get on with it. Okay, listen closely now because one of them makes a big old debate mistake. Now roll that tape. These uniforms are the worst. I want to express my style at school.
I don't know. I kind of like them. And you've got such cool style at school, Sandy. You wear the coolest headbands. Thanks, Tasha. But you like uniforms? Yeah, because I don't have to think about what to wear in the morning. Or if my clothes are nice enough. Tasha! Uniforms are so obviously bad. Why else would Kara and Penelope and Rashida and Lacey and Simone and Zaza and Monique and Rochelle all hate them?
Get with the program. Look, just because those girls don't like uniforms doesn't mean they're bad. Go, Tasha! Go, Tasha! Go Tasha. She's right. Sandy's argument was totally weak sauce. Yep. She used a logical fallacy. Logical fallacies are big time debate mistakes that make it easier for your opponent to take your arguments out. Yeah, and Sandy just used the bandwagon fallacy.
That's when you argue that something is true or defensible because it's popular. Just because something is popular doesn't make it right or true. Let's see how Tasha takes advantage of Sandy's mistake. Tasha, uniforms are so obviously bad. Why else would Kara and Penelope and Rashida and Lacey and Simone and Zaza and Monique and Rochelle all hate them? Get with the program.
Look, just because those girls don't like uniforms doesn't mean they're bad. That's a weak argument, Sandy. Uniforms create a sense of community, and they make it easier to focus in class. Plus, uniforms promote equality since everyone's wearing the same thing. Bada-boom! Tasha came back with a great rebu-
Very nice work on Tasha's part. What do you think, debate heads? Are uniforms a good idea or a terrible one? It's a tough topic, so prepare your arguments and we'll catch you next time on State of Debate! Best. Boom. Smash. Smash. Boom. Best.
You're listening to Smash Boom Best. I'm your host, Molly Bloom. And I'm your judge, Kate. One of my favorite things about this show is all the amazing debate ideas we get from listeners like you. Check out this awesome debate suggestion from Joseph in St. Louis. Missouri. My debate idea is humans versus robots. We'll check back with Joseph at the end of this episode to see which side he thinks should win. And now it's back to our debate of the day, vampires versus werewolves.
That's right. And it's time for round two, the micro round. For this challenge, we asked Tracy and Anna to write up a roommate listing for their side. The idea of living with either creature is a little bit scary, so Anna and Tracy really had to turn on the charm for this challenge. Anna went first last time, so Tracy, you're up. Let's hear your winning roommate listing for werewolves.
Very friendly, totally normal human, most of the time, seeks roommate who is not allergic to dogs. Not allergic to dogs. Calling all roomies who love a midnight snack. Here's a little bit about me. I have long, long, long brown hair. I'm a big runner. And I'm always out late, so you'll have the place to yourself a lot. I keep the fridge stocked with a lot of...
food because who doesn't get hangry once in a while? I have a super great vacuum to keep things really clean and free of dog hair from my... She stays in my room. You'll never see her. Don't worry about it. If you hear anything snarling, she's just my dog. Don't go in there. If you need help moving your couch or anything heavy, I can get that for you. One-handed, no problem. I love monster movie marathons.
hair care tips, and looking at the stars on a moonless night. Big fave. I'm looking for someone who smells good, likes to let loose, and doesn't ask a lot of questions. Excellent, Kate. Sound like a good roommate? Yeah. I mean, it sounds like one of the perfect roommates if you're going to, you know, keep the house clean. Also, the hair care tips. I mean, I have curly hair. Sounds like a pretty solid roommate, and I can't wait to hear from vampires.
right, Anna, let's hear how a vampire might try to woo a new roommate. Okay, listen up, Facebook, Tiki-Takis, TwitGrammers. I'm looking for someone to move into my lair, okay? You're not going to want to give up this opportunity. It is once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. My lair has everything, okay? It's got darkness. It's cold. You can have a coffin right next to mine, and we sleep all day, and we will laugh all night, staying up watching our favorite comedy shows, and drinking blood.
Orange juice. Blood orange juice. The juice from a blood orange. And yes, you have to move to Transylvania, okay. But it's a wonderful place to live. And if you do a good job as my roommate, I will turn you into a vampire, okay? And then you live forever with me and we split utilities 50-50. Okay, yes. Your answer is yes. Great. Here is your key. Thank you. Good chat. Okay. Bye, new roommate. Love you, best friend for life. And death.
Wow, Dracula is very charming. I know. Kate, what do you think? Good roommate? I mean... Pretty cool. I don't think it would be that bad to move to Transylvania. 50-50 split sounds pretty fair. Good deal. Kate, it is time to award a point. Don't tell us who you're giving it to. Think it over. Werewolf roommate? Vampire roommate? Have you decided? I have decided. Okay. Then it's time for our third round, the super stealthy sneak attack.
And our sneak attack is food fight. If your side was a contestant on a cooking show, what type of food would they make? Present the winning dish that your side would make on a cut throat cooking show. Okay, we'll give you a few minutes to brainstorm. While you work, let's listen to some soothing hold music. Fang and coffin looks like a bat. Creep at night. Ah! What's that? I'm a vampire. Here to drink your blood. I'm getting hairy. Eating sheep. My teeth are scary. Howling at the monster moon.
All right, Anna and Tracy, are you ready? Yes. Yes. Anna, you're up. Let's hear about Team Vampire's award-winning dish. We are going to make... gazpacho it's a it's a spanish cold soup made of raw blended vegetables it's super healthy it's versatile and for this special recipe we're gonna hold the vegetables and instead Use a red broth made of a secret red substance that I keep stocked in my refrigerator. And it's totally legal and not at all a danger to anyone to collect. Gazpacho!
Delicious. All right, Tracy. Let's hear Team Werewolves cooking extravaganza. Yes, my dish is called the whole refrigerator. I got really hungry. I forgot how to open the door. So it starts with some of the door and then literally. Everything inside the refrigerator. So that would be some raw hamburgers, some cheese sticks in their wrappers, a little bit of pudding, the cream cheese, half a carrot, the thermometer.
All in there. It will win because it is extremely untraditional and avant-garde, but it is for everybody. You don't need any special ingredients. You can make it at home right now yourself if you have a refrigerator. Just eat your whole refrigerator. Wow. Both very experimental, groundbreaking dishes. Kate, think about which one wowed you, but don't tell us who you're choosing. All right. I have my point.
Excellent. It's time for our very last round. The final six. So Tracy, you're up. Let's hear your final six. Powerful werewolves still enjoy the sun. Lovely. All right, Anna. I know where you live, Kate. a slightly threatening end to this round. We've taken a monstrous journey today. Both teams have put up a terrifyingly impressive fight, but it's time to award our final point and crown one of these fearsome and fascinating creatures, the Smash Boom Best. Kate.
I have awarded the final point. Today's winner is... Werewolves! Oh! Oh, I, this was a really hard one. I will say. Tracy, I just want to say you did a really great job today and like, don't. worry because I don't just think you won because it's your birthday. So don't even think that for one second that that's the only reason you won today. Birthday magic is very.
It is. I'll take what I can get. I'm not going to lie. The gazpacho does sound delicious. If it was in the fridge, I would eat it. And Dracula sounds like a real pal. I feel like we could have some nocturnal. party time together. And it's a bummer he can't stick around during the day. Both sides did an amazing job today. And that's it for today's debate battle. Kate crowned werewolves the Smash Boom Best, but what about you? Head to smashboombest.org and vote to tell us who you think should win.
Boom Best is brought to you by Brains On and American Public Media. It's produced by Rosie DuPont, Sandin Totten, and Molly Bloom. We had engineering help from Corey Shreppel. And we had production help from Elissa Dudley, Christina Lopez, Mark Sanchez. And Manica Wilhelm. Anna Wegel is the voice of our hold music, and our announcer is Marley Foyerworker Otto. We want to give special thanks to Austin Cross, Taylor Kaufman, and Jennifer Lai. Tracy, is there anyone you want to thank today?
Yes, I want to thank my experts, Dr. Colleen Lucy and Benjamin Percy, for helping me prove that werewolves truly are the best. And how about you, Anna? Any special shout-outs today? Yes, I want to thank our Dracula, my husband, Brant Miller. He really... let me boss him around a lot during the recording session. And what about you Kate? Any special things? I'll thank my mother, Shannon Custer, and also my cat, Kitty Pants, because, you know, me and mom and Kitty Pants have watched many.
werewolf and vampire movies so i mean squad Awesome. And before we go, let's hear who Joseph thinks should win in his humans versus robots debate. I think humans would win because they made the robots. That is a really good point. Do you have an idea for a knockdown drag out debate? Head to smashboom.org and tell us about it. We'll be back with a new debate battle next week. Ciao. See you later. Bye.
super wealthy what's up with the 50 50 chintz out your internal life forms who own castles and you're like can someone foot half the electric i don't know I did not know there was a rebuttal here. Just saying red flag for me.