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I think a lot of folks who don't understand protesting simply just have never protested because when you're there, you feel kinship, which is something so much of us don't feel as Americans because we have been divided conquered. Like I feel like Madda is less about than actually like believing what they're saying and more so just about feeling connectedness. You know, that's what gangs are about for what it's worth. Like folks are in gangs because
they're trying to make money. Most of the time people are in gangs because they want to feel connected. They want to feel part of something. They want to feel safe. And when you go to protest, you have all those feelings in addition to the feeling of knowing that you are on the right side of history. I don't even like telling themselves that, but they're not on the right side of history. But if you are out of protest for the purpose of liberation, you're always on the right side.
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Alright y'all, before we get into this episode of Small Doses podcast, want to remind you that I'll be in Detroit this weekend. I know I was supposed to do four shows while I'm still doing two. All right, no, it was all about the cancel and so you're lucky. But I'm still doing the two shows so you can catch me on Friday at 7.30 and on Saturday at 7.00 pm as a Detroit
House comedy. And you know what, we're also doing a shoe drive for the Congo. Yes, I partnered with a foundation that is sending shoes to the Congo was created by a Congolese brother. And shoes are really needed out there in a place where people are constantly displaced and there are so many health threats by simply just walking barefoot. So this is a simple way for you to be helpful. It doesn't involve you having to shell out a bunch of money that you may not
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It's another episode of small doses. Hot cast. Smolder sales of help from the hit. Smolder sales. Smolder sales. Smolder sales. Smolder sales. Me and Nancy. So funky. Welcome to another episode of small doses podcast. Y'all. This is a doozy of an app. A couple years ago, I had gotten reached out to by Harry Lewis Gates and their team to do finding your roots. But then it just never happened, but it never stopped being something that I really wanted to explore, particularly
because my father and I are not close. And my mom has really done her best on our side of the family in Grenada with trying to follow our genealogy. But I don't know anything about my father's side. And so when I met Kimberly Renee, who was an influencer that creates really great videos about black history and who is now our weekly historian on the Amanda Seale show with our segment. Why are you bringing it all ish? I didn't know that she did
genealogy. So once she's talked about it, I was like, well, hold up on now. It sounds like it's time. So in the spirit of Father's Day, we are doing this episode finding my roots where I will get to learn about, you know, where I'm from on my father's side. And for all of those who consistently talk shit about my not being black enough, well, we'll find out. If it's time for me to eat shit or for them to eat crow, let's get into it. All right,
we're here. We didn't. So I don't even know. I'm just I'm a vessel. So this is your show today. So we have my buddy, O'Powr, Kimberly Renee, who is joining us to tell me what, you know, my father should have told me, but you know, nonetheless, I know to write people. And I am so glad that we are able to take this walk together, my sister. Yes. Yes. So am I leading this today? This is me. Yeah. This is your show. I'm a guest. Wait, don't we have to do the intro?
I'll do it after it. Yeah. But you're on your skid gates right now. You're on your skid gates. Okay. Okay. We're doing it. So I think we should start with you telling us some of the wildly inaccurate stories about your family history that will be we have to tell you. Let me just start by telling y'all I like him really so much. This is one of these times where like you meet someone through the internet and this is how people end up on catfish because like you be meeting people
in there like I really connect with this person. And I just feel like we be having the same mind about so many things like sometimes Kimberly and my DM like you see this. I'm like, ah. So the fact that you knew to start it this way is yet reason number 2000 when I'm like, I'm folks with Kimberly. Yo, hardcore. So people love to tell me that my mother is a white European woman. People love to tell me that my father is not a black man. People love to tell me that I am not a
descendant of shadow slavery. People love to tell me that I'm not black. People often tell me that I am a culture of culture because they say that I am speaking to a lineage that is not my own. The latest is that I'm a tragic malado and that I essentially to a lot of people I feel like they think that because my mother is from the Caribbean that it's like irrelevant where my father is from. So they'll tell me like you would never get reparations. Hey, which I think is funny because in this
patriarchal society like everything is actually passed down through the man. But I guess because it's convenient to undermine me in this case all of a sudden they're feminists. But you know, these are the things and it's like so pervasive and it's always done to attempt to devalue my voice. Yeah. Yeah. As like a supporter of proponent like lever of black people. Right. Right. And I feel like you do that with your whole soul all the time. Yes.
To the point of I would say excessively to wear almost harm to yourself because you. Because I mean that's not the only times where you need a break in won't take it. I feel attacked. I'm sorry. I'm joking. You know what? I think it's just habitual. It's just like the way that I we were talking about this where I was like I feel like I'm supposed to take a break right now. And then I just like didn't like I just couldn't and I was like I think I just need to change how I interact with the world.
But ultimately my love for black folks is in my DNA like in a very real way and not just on the American side but also on the Grenade inside and anybody who knows about Grenada and just as a people and as a revolutionary people. Like it's in us. So I feel as though you are right. Part of it is more so to the detriment of my mental health in the sense that sometimes I feel like I'm pouring into a vessel that doesn't want to pour back into me.
But that sometimes is me just I feel like letting the detractors speak louder than the folks who are like no like we really need you and we love you. And that's more important. And this episode is not just for me but also for just like the greater conversation around genealogy and around how we as black folks like we really have to do all of this to like find where we're from like some of these white people like they're like
Mary, my family's castle. What are you talking about? They have like their coat of arms, you know like they are able to like trace so far back because it's in the house. Right. Like here's our book, you know like that we passed down, you know, since my uncle walked up the hills of Duncine. So this means a lot to me also because I my father is like I know my dad but like we don't have a connection.
You know like we're not friends like we're not family. You know he's really just you know a genetic source. Yeah, I feel that that's relatable. I feel like to a lot of people especially when you were raised primarily by your mother, even my own parents. My dad lived down a street for me but we're still so much strangers. So. That's a whole other episode. Because my father lived in New Jersey while I went to purchase and lived in New York for 15 years.
And it's like you right you right there. Well just a sign up because I know y'all of a story. I went to go to my dad's house one time with my two people's and we got there and he wasn't there. Like of course my sisters and brothers like let me in the house. And so when he got home, he was like lifted that they had let me in the house.
And he was like you let strangers in the house and me and him like went in the laundry room to hash it out. And he was just talking so much nonsense. I was like listen brother. Yeah. Referring to my father as brother made his entire brain explode. It was literally it's spontaneous combustion. That's one of my greatest moments of all time.
Well. Wow. That's so relatable but again. So you're dead. Yes. You're dead. Black man from Boston lived in Roxbury. Okay. And one of the things I found interesting was that you didn't know what he did for a living. So I know his credentials. But we have never really known what he's done for a living. Like I will ask him all the time.
I know at one point I think he was a dean of Mahari medical school. And that was like the last job job that I can say like yes. Like if I needed to call my dad at work, I would not. Like I put it in no where to call and my brother and sisters there's the same. We're all like, oh, I'm not sure. Like he's going to be pissed about this episode. Oh my gosh. Well, let me find out. Let me find out. He was a sanitation. No, no, no, no, no. Very no job. He's not a citizen right now.
Right. No, he has credentials. But the first piece of documentation that I found about your dad was him being who's who of California in 1983. What? Okay. So I have my first little piece of documentation. I'm going to show you. And it's a screenshot of the entry from who's who 1983.
And you were what two years old. Yeah. Okay. But look at all the things he's done. I mean, this list is what's the word magnanimous magnanimous. What's the word? I know you know the word magnanimous works. Yeah. Magnanimous. So highlight. Let's highlight for the listeners. He was a physician is a physician was a chief medical officer. Is this what I'm looking at?
I'm a professor of public health. Is this the who's who it's slide number one. Okay. Got it. Okay. Yes. And this is I'm not saying these in order. I'm just giving you highlights. Okay. Got you. Got you. Okay. Yes. So assistant professor of public health director of ambulatory care. Parapsychology researcher. I've never seen that. Right. White House fellow. A board member of the Sheenway School in LA.
She's been nominated as time magazine news makers of tomorrow. What are you talking about? What are you talking about? I'm just reading. I'm just reading. I'm just reading. What is this lady saying, AJ? Okay, I'm here. I'm here with you. Just know that I'm gonna exclaim a lot. Okay, that's fine. Diane Watson, California, she used to be US representative for California's 33rd Congressional District. She served from like 2003 to 2011.
Anyway, while she was on California State Senate, she had an organization that he was a member of. And it's called Senator Diane Watson's Commission on Health Welfare. And mind you, this is 83. So he is 33 years old and this is his list. So when my mom met my father, she was 34. So she's two years older than him. And she had been married. And they actually met when he came, she was selling the house. She realized like the only way I'm gonna get out this marriage is I gotta sell this house.
Cause her husband would like basically come to the house on weekends and like play marriage and then leave. And so she was like, I gotta get out this house. And her husband, he was like a executive at like IBM, I think, but he also like would like try these things out. Yeah, I think, but he also like would like try these like get rich quick schemes. So he had all these like gum machines in laundromats.
So the house, apparently the house barely had like any furniture because they had like just moved in and she was like, I'm done with this. But there was like a whole all like all these boxes, like juicy fruit and big red and double mint gum like by the door. And my dad came to the house to look at the house to buy the house. And apparently when he came inside, he looked around and said to her, so who gets the gum and the divorce? And that's how we got here. That was, oh, that's how I got here.
And that feels an eye, sucker for jokes. Suckles. Suckles for jokes. So, but he like, what she couldn't get pregnant. So when she was with her husband, like she was like infertile for 10 years, like they told her that she's the problem, like she's the reason, et cetera. So she thought she could have babies. Guess what? Ah, I had the gun. So he like thought that she was trying to trap him. And she's like, you're the irony about this is that I don't think my mom knows about any of this.
Wow. I don't think my mom knows about any of this because he was still a resident when she met him. And my mom had like a 401k. My mom worked at travelers insurance, like she had like a whole job job job. And she was like, trap you like, who was you? Ah, my mate. So this is gonna blow her mind too. I know she's in the car listening right now, like, oh my God, man, you're telling all the business. But when did he have time for anything other than career? I don't know that he was a good partner.
I don't think they were like a couple. I think they were just, you know, hanging. They were friendly. Yeah. I mean, and he was handsome and my mom was a baddie. So I get it. And my mom was a nurse. So there's also that, like my mom was a nurse, my uncle's, always UIN, like my family is very, not just my family, but like my extended family, like medicine is like really involved. So I feel like there's a kinship there. Did you feel any connection to like, want to go in that direction?
Yeah, absolutely. I wanted to be a pediatrician until I saw Anna Pacqun win the Oscar for the piano. And I was like, change of plans. Yeah. Yeah. Life is full of things to manage. Your work, your family, your plans, and your treatment. Consider Kisimta, Ophatuma Mab 20 milligram injection. You can take it yourself from the comfort of home.
If you're ready for something different, ask your health care provider about Kisimta and check out the details at kisimta.com, brought to you by Novartis Pharmaceuticals Corporation. Well, your dad was a little bit of everywhere. Pennsylvania, Seattle, Nairobi, London. Hi, Robyn. And obviously Boston. Nairobi, it's check the paper. Unless they lie to us. I mean, I don't see why they're coming. Kenya, Nairobi. OK. All right. All right. He was a mover and a shaker.
And it made me think about something that I asked you about some time ago in comparison to me as a digital nomad. And you were talking about how you needed to fill roots. And I wondered if your dad moving around a lot impacted your desire to want to kind of be settled more so, and not as considerate for being a digital nomad. I think part of it is more so that I'm a cancer. And so like, I like to really make my home my home.
And so to be in other people's places, as a lifestyle, I feel like I wouldn't feel like it's mine. And I need a place to feel like it's mine. I mean, maybe there is something just in my blood about that. But I genuinely, my dad moved around a lot. When I was growing up, and I'd have to go visit him, I'm visiting him in Harrisburg. I'm visiting him in Wisconsin. I'm visiting him in Tennessee. So I know that he did do his fair share of moving around even once I was like in my kid era.
Yeah. Yeah. Now your dad was a junior. So that means his father was also named Huey Senior. Did you know anything about him? Because I feel like he passed when he were little. I don't know anything about anybody. OK. So Huey Senior was a Mason, Prince Hall Mason. And he worked as a machinist. He actually worked for an organization called Revere Sugar Refinery, which was a subsidiary of the United Fruit Company, which is now known as Chiquita Brands.
Now Chiquita Brands, if you know about them, they were participating oppressor during the banana massacre that occurred in 1928. Are you familiar with that? No. So the short answer is the people at United Fruit wanted to unionize. But Chiquita would like, we're not having it. And then they decided to, Chiquita decided to partner with the government and create like a militia to keep people from unionizing basically. And thousands of people were murdered because of it. And where was this?
So Columbia, the banana massacre. It's definitely something to look up. Yeah, absolutely. So if you want to say they killed a bunch of laborers for unionizing, for picking correct. Correct. Who's they? So it's called the AUC. I'm probably going to pronounce it wrong. Auto-Defenses unidas the Columbia. And it was an organization of right wing paramilitary groups that aligned with the government and the Columbia military for the interest of Chiquita brands. Oh, so they were just paid centuries.
They were like the uncelled. Got it. Yes. OK. So Huey had a lot of wives. Huey's senior. He had a lot of wives? His first wife, city? Yes. OK. So three that we know of. The first that we see in his obituary, which is slide number three is Irma. And I also want you to note on slide number three where we have Irma. We also see Dr. Huey as a son. And then we also have Arnie. I remember Grandma Irma. And she had a daughter named Henrietta. Yeah. And I remember Henrietta and my mom. Oh, yeah.
There we see beloved father. Henrietta. Henrietta had always been really kind to my mom. And Grandma Irma was kind to my mom. One of them. So Irma was the last wife before Irma was Geraldine or Jerry. Does it get blacker than the name Irma? I mean, like while we're here, just like does it? Like Irma is so just distinctly black church. It's certain time frame. Irma. I feel like Geraldine is too. You right. Henrietta. I mean, they're all just. Yeah. And these are black people.
These are all earthen clear. These are all black people. Yes. We're going to come back to Jerry or Geraldine. But Huey senior's first wife was Betty. Okay. Betty was black. Keshav concerned about that. Betty was born in Bob War Township of Cretan, Arkansas. So before he married Geraldine, he was married to Betty. Huey senior was married to Betty in Arkansas. Okay. Is he from Arkansas? So let me show you the documentation that we have. And you can actually see his name is slightly misspelled.
We see a few different spellings of the name when we go through this. But he's married to Betty. And they're both are listed from Arkansas. Wow. Fascinating. This is like their marriage license. No. So this is the census from 1940. Wow. I'm on the subsequent page. You'll see that he was actually a tenant farmer. So basically he rented the land and he farmed on it. And that's how he supported his family. He was a sharecropper. Mm hmm. What? So this is when he was married to Betty.
He was a tenant farmer. Correct. And you see Ernie is right there too. Remember Ernie from the Obituary? Yeah. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Okay. I'm bugging right now. But did you know you had family that went all the way back to Arkansas? I knew that there was like a vague Arkansas presence, but I didn't know in what context. And it was very much thrown out. Like yeah, we have people from Arkansas. You know, but everybody got people from somewhere. So that's like a thing we say.
You know, we have people from XYZ and you're like, okay, but who people, what people, why people? Okay. Mm hmm. So if we keep going, we're now in a new census, 1930. Okay. And we see Hugh Lee, mother, Georgia. And then we have all of his siblings. But notice the name difference because at first they were going by Huey. Yeah. And Huey Lee. And now it's Hue Lee. His name is spelled Huey H-U-G-H-I-E on my birth certificate. But then he started spelling it H-U-E-Y like in life.
And we're going to see another spelling soon. Okay. Got it. And then next we see Porter. Yeah. And so that is your great grandfather. Porter. Porter. All right. Now notice this, Porter was born in Arkansas. However, his parents were both born in Mississippi. Wow. So we're going even further south. I'm from the south. Yes. Deep South girl. Wow. Okay. Okay. Okay. So just to recap, we have Huey's senior's parents as Georgia Lee and Porter. They were both born late 1800s, like 1898, 1897.
Okay. All right. So let's continue. Now we have Huey's senior's birth certificate. And notice the spelling H-U-R maybe R, A-E. Purely. I don't know how it happened. I don't know if it was like what's your baby name? Hurley. I don't know if it was just like real country and they just didn't know how to transcribe it. I don't know. Oh my gosh. That's wild. Okay. So we have Porter as the father. Georgia as the mother, both living in Arkansas, both colored for the record.
Wow. And we see him as a farmer. They were 22 and 20. Yeah. Wow. We're going to see various spellings of the names because the census takers weren't black. They don't care. They didn't care. It's just right, whatever you said, keep it moving. Okay. Because her release really helped. So Huey is definitely, definitely interesting. So we'll continue and you're going to see Porter died in Memphis. Oh. Now if you remember Betty, Betty was married to Huey's senior. That was the first wife.
Yes. When they got divorced, she moved to Memphis. Okay. That's where her and her are. So I don't know if Porter was in Memphis visiting Ernie or if he had moved there. But Memphis is where he died. Okay. Actually in a car accident. Oh, no. Okay. And so he broke his femur and that led to a pulmonary embolism. Shut up. Wow. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And so his parents are OF and Lily Jones. And he was married to Maddie who is not Georgia Lee. I was like, hold on now. It's a theme of multiple marriages.
People being married most of the time. Not just dating, but multiple marriages. Okay. So far we've seen three marriages with Huey's senior and there may have been at least three with Porter as well. What was the thought? Well, we see these two names here. Geraldine Maddie. Mm-hmm. Who's the other one that he was married to? Irma. No, Irma is who my grandfather was married to. Right. So Geraldine, Irma and Betty. Irma is who my grandfather was married to. Porter is my great-grandfather.
Right. That's what I'm talking about. Yeah. Okay. So my grandfather is Irma, Jerry and Betty. So then Porter was married to... Georgia Lee. Georgia Lee. Maddie. Maddie. Impossible. Third. Really? Damn. I heard some kind of story about him with a white lady. I didn't find a white lady. Okay. I didn't find her. Life is full of things to manage. Your work, your family, your plans, and your treatment. Consider Kisimta. Ophatuma Mab 20mg injection. You can take it yourself from the comfort of home.
If you're ready for something different, ask your healthcare provider about Kisimta and check out the details at Kisimta.com. Brought to you by Novartis Pharmaceuticals Corporation. So both my grandfather and great-grandfather were tenant farmers? Yes. And then my grandfather moved from being a tenant farmer to being a machinist and working for the company that had the jikis left. Correct. Okay. Yes. Wow. So we're looking at now OF. And I believe OF was Ophelo. Old fellow? Ophelo.
Old apostrophe fellow. So like Ophelo, but Ophelo. Without the teeth. Okay. Yes. Okay. And who knows? It could have been a country translation. Yeah. I don't know. Right, right, right. And just so you have the image, you can see Porter and Maddie getting married in 1941. Okay. I see it. Like a 27-in-Z. Believe it. Now, we're heading back to 1880. We're looking for Ophelo. This is the parent of Porter. So this is my great, great granddad.
Yes. Yes. Okay. And we see Ophelo, who is a farm labor in the home of Thomas Calacote. And Calacote eventually became Calacut. So if you know people with the Calacut name, that's kind of where that came from. When you say farm laborer, is he still a tenant farmer? Is he a slave? So he's not a slave, but he also isn't renting the land. He's working on Thomas' land. So like a hired hand. Whereas, correct. Okay. And if you notice under relationship, it says hired. Oh, yes, I see.
Okay. Yeah. And so he's listed as born in Mississippi, but he does not know where his parents are from. Oh, wow. And so this could have mean that he was sold at some point, or maybe he just too young when they got separated. Oh, man. But that is Ophelo. Okay. Ophelo, hello. Now, let's talk about where they are. We're in Lafayette County. Now in 1860, 20 years earlier, I found a slave schedule of a man named John also in Lafayette County, who may have enslaved Ophelo and or his parents.
And obviously, we wouldn't know that without DNA or additional documentation, but we know that slaves were often just numbers. And slave people rather were often just numbers. Right. Right. Okay. And so we can see that where we have a really long list of people who are enslaved under John. Oh, my God. What was really interesting to me is the note on the left side that somebody was called an idiot talking about their intellectual or physical differences. That's what they were denoted as.
Wow. Okay. This is just numbers. Yeah, just numbers. But that is Mr. Porter. Okay. So this is my great-great-grandfather and this is a possible owner of my great-great-grandfather. Mm-hmm. Wow. And this is a Mississippi. This is in Lafayette County in Mississippi. What does it feel like? It feels so close. You know, like the conversation around slavery is always like it was just this other worldly time, you know, as if it's like the time of Attila and the Huns.
And it's right here, just in a document. You know, it's not even like it's being passed down by some like Grio, you know, who's giving some tail of order mouth. Like it's right here. And even if John didn't own, you know, my family, he owned these other families. Yeah. Like as a person, he owned people just, just really deplorable, truly. I find a lot of people when I put their documentation together, they always say, is it normal for all of this information to feel overwhelming?
And I'm like, yes. Yeah. There's a normal reaction. Yeah. Yeah, because you're trying to make something make sense, you know, in your mind that really doesn't. It's really actually unconscionable. And then it's actually in you, you know, like I think that your nerves start to wake up because they're like kind of traveling to connect to something that they know. Yeah. Yeah. And I found me using the deep twenties, so you can, you know, gloves in the STD, and my forte.
Andขię sarw nie zZинęł będzie터� middle school. Kinder… I don't. No. Finnziękuję, on Beifall. Whenever President 벗NG pośad Hodmana posiouje je chowi stdł Cla gef 둘en think she goes behandle flay teoptia! I feel like those are Mongolsam, you know? Okay. it and you'll see John Harrison and Amanda the life. Triffy! Because he did not name me. So that's fascinating. And Amanda is not like a common name of this era.
It is not. Okay. What I found most interesting here is that Amanda birthed 17 children. These vaginas that be birthed in, like I keep hearing this lately, I'm just like, how? I mean, by the third one, you just cough in and have an abate. You know, like 17, 17, why? Not all of them survive. Okay. Only six of them are alive in 1910. Wow. But she was pregnant multiple times. I'm not going to say 17 because some of them could have been multiples. But she was a lot of pregnant.
Wow. Okay. Damn. Now, there are some notations here. So she is noted as born and Mississippi. Yeah. Her father, North Carolina, her mother, Vermont. I don't know if that's accurate. That through me. I was like, how did you get what? I mean, that's actually a weird idea because I did see a V8 later. But that was an interesting find there. Okay. And then, obviously, Georgia Lee is in the household. And that is Huey Seniors' mother. Right. Huey Seniors' my grandfather.
Yes. Yes. So, Georgia Lee and Porter had Huey Lee. Correct. Okay. And Amanda is who? Amanda is Georgia's mother. Ah. Okay. So, she's a great, great, great grandmother. Yes. Ha. Cool. All right. Great, great. All right. So, I'm about Geraldine. Okay. Miss Jerry. Yeah. What do you remember about Jerry? She was mean. Oh. So, to my understanding, well, she was, okay, let's not fair. I won't say that she was mean, but she was just very cold.
Like, she didn't really have much kind of like vibes towards me. But I remember her being very cold to my mom. And there was always this energy that my mom was trying to trap this man. And my mom was not pressed about this man at all. Like, as the story goes, when my mother's water broke, she mopped it up and then went to the hospital. That's the type of lady that she is. And then my godmother, Auntie Barbara, called my father and he showed up to the hospital in his own scrubs.
That's the kind of person we're dealing with. And she had not spoken to him in like months. So she went through her pregnancy, you know, by herself with like her friends at work. And then a couple of weeks later, he took us out to lunch and on the way home did a pit stop at UCLA to do a DNA test. Yeah, that's crazy. That is bananas. My mom was like, what are we going? And he was like, oh, we're just going to do this DNA test real quick. She was like, I mean, you know, whatever, right?
Like, if that's what you need. So grandma, Jerry essentially was like kind of called to my mom. But then to my understanding, there was some type of situation where her attitude towards my mom shifted. And I don't know if it's because like she realized like, oh, like my son be on one. But like eventually, like before she passed, her attitude towards my mom shifted and like she had like reached out to my mom and like gave her a blessing and like all the above.
Because I think what it was was that she realized that my dad like really wasn't trying to care for me. And it was like, well, we're not going to do that. Like if that's your daughter, that's your daughter. So I think that's what turned the corner. So do you know what your dad and Jerry's relationship was like? Was that hormonal? No, because I don't think she was a warm person. So to my understanding, basically they had like a good life.
And then when she got divorced from my grandfather, they moved to the projects in Roxbury. And that is apparently when things went left. And you know, I think that was from my father, like from what I understand or what I remember from him telling me like that was just like a very difficult time for him because like their quality of life like shifted drastically. And I think it was also like really racist in Boston. And so that was also very difficult. Yeah, I can imagine.
And it's probably like some sort of stigma that is attached to being divorced because I noticed that on most of like the directories, Geraldine was always listed as Mrs. even though she was unmarried. So I just found that really interesting. Like it she maintained Mrs. Yeah. Geraldine. Interesting. Okay. So if you slide to page 17, we see her working at a stubborn shop and we see her as a factory worker. So these are definitely not like soft jobs.
Right. Huh. Okay. And then right underneath there, you'll see, Julie, remember I told you this, Felling was going to change. Yeah. Mary to Irma working as a machinist at Revere Sugar. Yeah. It's fascinating how precise these census records are. You know, like I feel like don't know if I'd be really depressed about the census now, but like these are just so clear. Yeah. Yeah. In terms of just like their record keeping. Life is full of things to manage.
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That's why he works behind the scenes, ensuring every light is working, the HVAC is humming, and his facility shines. With Granger's supplies and solutions for every challenge he faces, plus 24-7 customer support, his venue never misses a beat. Call quickgranger.com or just stop by. Granger for the ones who get it done. Now I remember you told me that you assumed that she was born in Baltimore, right? Yeah. So I actually uncovered that she was born in Philadelphia. Very much a city girl. Oh wow.
And she was a little bit difficult to like track down because she didn't live with her parents at the beginning of her life. But on the next slide, you'll see her obituary. And it says that she's a native of Philadelphia and a former employee of Pintran, which I believe is the rail system. You know, she went to church, a little Sunday school lady. She was also a foster grandparents. So when you told me that she was a cold woman, she was also a foster grandparents.
So I'm curious like what that dynamic look like. Huh. Okay. I mean, you know, she had like real grandkids. So I'm not sure. What the foster grandkids was getting, but she wasn't giving us much. Not in my vibes. Well, we know she was in Boston. And as you say, she was in the hood. Yeah. She left some time after 1977 and she moved to the Newport News, Hampton, Virginia area. And that's where she passed. Yes. Her parents were Arbery Williams and Estella or Estelle Holland.
Yep. The two of them were married in Philadelphia in 1915. Now on slide 19, we get a lot of information about them. Okay. We see that Arbery is a bellman living in Philadelphia. Yeah. We see his mother, Maria Wiggins. Yeah. His father was just listed as dead. Thank you. We get his name later, but just dead. Okay. On the other side, it's all the same document. We see Estelle Holland in Philadelphia. Her birthplace is Maryland. Yep. Her father's name is Alexander.
Her mother's name is Korah Holland. Her father was a farmer and mother housewife. Wow. I think it was really cool about these documents as you get to see their actual signatures. Oh, these are their signatures? Yeah. Oh, it does say signature of applicant. That's cool. Yeah. And Arbery has a nice signature. Yes, he does. Right? Because I'm not used to seeing men have beautiful signatures unless they're artists. No, yeah. He has really like a calligraphy-esque type signature.
Okay. So it made me question if he had a little bit of Armin. I'm just based on that signature. Okay. Arbery. All right. You went somewhere else with it. I was like, was Arbery a queen? But also that's awesome. I mean, I don't know. I mean, you know, fluidity is not new. You love kids. Okay. Okay. So we find out Arbery's dad's name. Leroy. Leroy. Very black. Very black. Very black. Leroy. All right. And then we see that Leroy's dad was also a Leroy. Okay. So Leroy was a junior.
Mm-hmm. Wow. Leroy's parents were Maria, James, Williams, and Leroy Williams, both foreign and Virginia. So I'm really from the south. Yes. Arkansas, Mississippi, Virginia. And I think the Arkansas was sort of like great migration moment. You know, it wasn't like y'all were just there. Like you were in Mississippi and then moves. Yes. Yeah. Okay. I see it. I see it. This is fascinating. Like, truly. So I couldn't find anything else on Arbery.
I did get more things on his parents, which we will talk about in a second. Okay. Let's look at Astell's parents. Okay. So Astell's family lives in Ann and Rendell County of Maryland. Wait, let me get my head around it. Astell is grandma Jerry's mom. Correct. So this is my great grandmother on my father's mother's side. Correct. Okay. Got it. Yes. And they're in Ann, Erin, Dale County of Maryland, which is like coastal. Okay. So Alexander started as a farmer, but then he became an oyster tonger.
That was like big business on the coast. And it was kind of like a beautiful moment because black men, white men were kind of coming together to take advantage of people being interested in eating oysters. And it really was a come up for the family because they own property on this beach area. So let me show you. The first thing I want you to notice is Gerald Lean, which is Gerald Dean, your grandmother, living with her grandparents, Alexander and Ford.
This is why she was so hard to find because she was in Maryland. Yeah. Not in Boston, not in Philadelphia with her parents, but in Maryland. But in Maryland. Don't know why she was there, but there you go. Okay. It's a higher family for Alexander and Korra, everybody's from Maryland, even their parents. Who knew? So Alexander, Korra, okay. Got it. Now we find out which area in Ann, Dale County, and it's a place called Churchton. So put a little map up there for you. Mm-hmm.
Oh, it's on the coast, coast, coast. Coast, coast. Yeah. And so that's where the family own land. Oh, they own land? They own the land. Oh, wow. That's what I was saying. The oysters gave them a come up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, too, Shay. Okay. Churchton. And so in 1870, we see Alexander. We see him as a child. Yes. And this is where we see the land ownership. That $75 for the value of the land. That's the ownership because otherwise, it wouldn't have a value there. I see. It's a small piece of land.
Yeah. No, not like some of the other, but they still own it. What do they do? Yes, they do. Now, also notice that everybody on this census where Alexander is, except for Henry is listed as Milato. What? So that M is for Milato here. So Henry was a farmer with name. And this for Milato. Mm-hmm. And I guess if I'm looking down, the W's are for white. Yep. W's for white, B's for black. Wow. Now, Milato. I was going to say, like, what would you mean?
I'm not going to say this is not for you, but it could have also been indigenous. I don't think that was a case for you, but those are some options. I have been told that we do have some, quote-unquote, Indian in our family. This could be Jane. It could be Jane. Mm-hmm. Okay. All right. And so in the next census, we're looking at Jane and Henry again. And we see a woman named Phyllis. This is the oldest ancestor that I was able to track for you.
She is 70 years old in the 1860 census, which means she was born in 1790 or earlier. Okay. Oldest black ancestor, I'll say that. I can't even wrap my head around. This is set. What year is this? So we're looking at 1860. And we see Henry and Jane. My Jew, they're free. Oh. They're not enslaved here because their names are listed. Okay. They have their own house. Phyllis is in that house with them. She's 70. And I believe Phyllis Holland to be Henry's mother.
Now how come they're listed as black here? So it depends on the era of writing. Okay. Or when the record was taken. Sometimes you'll see it switched back and forth depending on the person who was taking the census. Mm-hmm. And it was a little brown very early. Yeah. Who didn't have like a white parent in the house. They would immediately just like, oh, you're black. Got it. Okay. Okay. Now, I believe that Phyllis was married to a Charles Holland.
There is a documentation out there that I could not put my hands on to see if this was accurate. So this is a guess. I believe her name was Phyllis Franklin, who married a Charles Holland, December 25, 18, 15, December 25, 18, 15, 18, 15. But she was free. Because remember Phyllis was born in 1790. And she was free and when she was born, I don't know if she was free. See, that's the reason that I wanted the documentation so that I could read like, where you white, where you like, what?
Because she's listed as black here. And how was she free at that time? But I don't know if Maryland restricted enslaved people from getting married and like going through the paperwork that way. Some places they'd put again, we're in Maryland. Yeah. Okay. So your theory is that Phyllis married Charles Holland. Charles Holland. And they had Henry. Okay. Now it's possible that Charles could have purchased Phyllis. But again, I don't have the paperwork that far back.
So Charles Holland is a white man. He could be. We don't know. Right. Okay. So those are some question marks there. But this could have been a way. How would DNA have like purchased? This far back, how does DNA help fill in the gaps? Descendants. So if you're connected to the descendants of these people, it's more likely that you can say, oh, I'm related to their answer. I see. Okay. I should have gave you my ancestry dot com. Okay. So Holland name goes way back in Maryland. Wait pause.
We still never found out what my dad does. We did find out he did like 50 things. No, but he was like, man, I don't know. So he was a chief medical officer last time I checked at a hospital. That's what I saw last, but that was like 19. Some some see. I think he and the CIA. But you know, he did a lot with the government though. I mean, he did. He did. Yeah. Okay. Because he also remember at White House fellow, he worked with the government in Madison Wisconsin. Uh huh. Okay. All right.
Let me find out. I got a file. He might be. Okay. So. All right. That was my let me take the pin out. Okay. Now. Okay. The Holland name goes really far back. Oh, yeah. There's an area called Holland Point and there's an island called Holland Island. It's mostly eroded now. It don't go to it. There's nothing to see. Okay. But it was first colonized in the 1600s by a man named David Holland.
So it's very possible that these Holland that you are connected to were some of the OG colonizers in Maryland. Oh. Okay. Yes. I do. Life is full of things to manage. Your work, your family, your plans and your treatment. Consider Kisimta, Ophatuma Mab 20 milligram injection. You can take it yourself from the comfort of home.
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Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at Shopify.com slash try. Go to Shopify.com slash try now to grow your business. No matter what stage you're in, Shopify.com slash try. I have some photos for you. I see them. Do you have some photos for you? But before we get there, I found three families who were in slavers in Anne-Arendel County in the 1850s. Okay. On G Holland, John Holland, and then M.A. and P. Holland, and they were married.
And so one of these four could have been the slavers of the Holland's and Anne-Arendel that were related to you. I see. Motherfuckers. Now about those photos. Yeah. You see this house that looks like it's in the middle of nothing. Yeah. The island basically eroded, and this was the last house on that island. It's no longer there, but we have a front and back picture to show you what once was. It looks very dekenzy and light. What does that mean? Like it's out of a Charles Dickens book.
Like a great expectation. Oh, God. You know, like David Carpifield type vibes. Mm-hmm. Okay. Gotcha. Gotcha. Oh, that's the first entrance of a colonizer that might be related. Mm-hmm. We have more. Are you ready? Okay. So, Arbery's parents were going back to Arbery. His mother was named Maria Wiggins Williams. Okay. His father, Lee Roy Williams. We've already introduced him. Yes. So, now we're on the 1870 census. And these little points, you got to follow me.
Okay. Okay. All right, at the top, we see a Jesse Wiggins. He's a farmer. He's black. He owns some land. 1870. This is the year. Okay. Underneath that, we see Cena or Sia, something like that as a name. That's the wife. Okay. And then we have Maria. That's your Maria. Maria Wiggins. Maria Wiggins. Okay. All right. Next slide, we see a James Eel. Yep. Lot of land. Wow. Yeah. A bunch of white people. Farm. It's a bunch of white people in the house.
Oh. And then Lee Roy Williams at the bottom, black, male, 20. So Lee Roy Williams is in the home of James Eel. Okay. You follow me? I'm fine. So we're still in Lancaster, Virginia, 1870. Yeah. All right. Now, James Eel had a son named John Chaunting Eel. He was an enslaveur. Everybody was an enslaveur. Their estate can be traced back to Kent, England. Oh, jeez. In John C's obituary, he has a tale of how he was rescued by a faithful slave, which made me do a hard eye roll.
Yeah. After he was wounded in battle as a Confederate soldier. What? But the ills come from a long line of military officers. Okay. Okay. You can actually see that story on slide 30 where he's talking about that faithful slave. There's also a photo of him. No. Ew. This is, this is Mr. John Eel for Jane. But now this is not someone I'm related to. He was an enslaver of my relatives. Absolutely. Just go with me. I said, I'm going to give you a little bit of a thrill. Okay, okay, okay, okay.
Just go with me. Okay. But this is the owner of the house. Son, where Jesse is living. Correct. Jesse is living in this man's house. Black Jesse. Lee Roy is living in this house. Jesse is married to Cena. Jesse is white. Maria. Maria to Cena. Lee Roy is living this house and Lee Roy is black. Lee Roy is black. How is Jesse related to Ew again? We haven't got there. Okay. Sorry. Yes. So this is a birth registry. And this one shocked the heck out of me. I'm just going to tell you.
We see in June, a Maria was born in Lancaster County. Okay. This is where we are. Those were those sentences were. Father's name, James Ill. Keep going with me. 33. This is the other half of that document. The mother's name is Cena. Wiggins. Oh, the father's name is James Ill. In the far right column, he is listed as owner. He had a child with a black woman in June, July, August, September of that same year. While he was married, he was a serial rapist.
And he was putting his name on the birth certificates. And he put his name on the birth certificate. I rarely see that. This is James Ill. Where? Le Roy Williams is living. So that means that Le Roy Williams is going to marry the daughter of James Ill, his boss. So James, who was the picture of? The picture was of James. The picture is of James's son, John. Okay. That was just to give us a frame of reference. Correct. But his father is James. Correct. And James is the serial rapist. Correct.
Maria, who was living with Jesse and Sina, is not Jesse's daughter. Maria is not Jesse's daughter. Maria is James. Maria belongs to James. Yeah. But Maria is listed as white. No. Maria is black and white. So she has an M. Malato. And she is going to marry Le Roy. Yes. Somebody who's working at James's home. Whoa. Where did Maria live? With her mom and her stepdad. What kind of life is that?
Like, I mean, I just wonder like what the dynamic is and that type of home where Sina is a slave in these people's home. She was. In the sense that I showed you she is no longer a slave, but she was in their home. So James had a child in May, June, July, and August with women that he owned. But you know what's sad when I think not that there aren't. There's a bunch of sad things. A sad is a very generous word.
But when I think of people who would say to me like, you're not black, you're not a descendent of shadow slavery, it was like, oh, you can't lay claim to this trauma. And I think there was a part of me that thought that I would feel some type of like see, I told you so. But instead I feel more of a he just like, like it was just sadness that my people had to endure this kind of trauma and that that is our birth right into blackness for some people, you know?
Yeah. And I think we know that in Hollywood, when we present, I'm not going to say we, when films are presented, blackness is often rooted in trauma. And so we get these stories like over and over in front of us. And I think as you said, we've somewhat bought into it that you have to be beaten to be recognized as black. Yeah. You got to get jumped in. Wow. Oh, man. I'm so sorry, Sina. I'm so sorry. I mean, it's a similar story of my grandmother on my mother's side. Well, my mother's grandmother.
She was working as a maid in my great grandfather's house and became pregnant with my grandma in Grenada. You know, I don't think we call in slavers rapists enough. We definitely think everybody can relate to in some way the oppression that comes with labeling someone a rapist. Yeah. Like we get that in today's world. Absolutely. And there's a lot of documentation of this man. All of these women were married. Well, and he's forcing them to do that. And he's forcing them to do that.
And he's forcing them to do that. And he's just putting his name, you know, he was proud of this. That's the sadism is that he was proud of it. And so you're able to hear in 2024 be able to see the traces of his tyranny and that was his goal. So James Ewell, which by the way of. So while that his name is ill, exactly like. Okay. His father's name was James ill. He was a major in the military in the Confederate military. Okay. Yeah. James senior, his parents were captain Solomon and Eve ball ill.
Yeah. Stick with me. We're going somewhere. Okay. Well, her parents were Elizabeth housing and Colonel James ball. Okay. Elizabeth housing's parents were Leonard housing and Elizabeth Lee. Okay. Elizabeth Lee traces her family back to Virginia, which is the same place where the infamous lease of Virginia like Robert Ely correct. So I stopped there because it's very possible that you are connected to those lease of the Confederacy. Yes. It's possible.
There were at least two lines of lease that were in that area. One of them were Roberts and then there was a second family. So I told you as I went back and tried to verify, I wasn't able to make a strong enough connection to say absolutely 100%. But they were living in the same area. I'm going to rebuke it. Okay. The only thing that I could say is that if they are that then it's almost as if over time I flipped their revolutionary mentality into radicalism for the people versus against.
Yeah. Oh, man. And two of those lease signed a declaration of independence. Gross. What are we, ah. So again, when I do genealogy research, I don't use DNA. It's all documentation and I was not able to find conclusive documentation to say yes. So we don't know. So we don't, okay, little mystery. But they were in the same area. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so you were able to see this because James Ewell put his name on the birth certificate. Correct.
You were then able to trace James to his father and his father's or James to his mother. No, his father is also named James. So we went to then his grandmother got it is a ball in the balls are connected to the lease. Oh my gosh. Your girl. So it might be, it might not be. It might be. But you definitely have some OG colonizers. Ah. Ah. I have a joke where I say that I say, you know, Lice can people we're fighting massive from the inside out. And I mean it literally.
And then I have a joke where I say, you know, I saw one white penis and I was good. Like I just, I literally saw it and was like, ah, I'm good. Put it back. And I have a joke where I say, you know, I have a fear that if I were to engage with a white man that what if I got brought to climax and then I went back in the time like an Octavia Butler novel and woke up in the midst of an assault, I would be left with only one option. I got to kill him. That's it. And now here I am.
And I am the descendant of somebody who was in that very situation. But if I had killed him, it wouldn't have stopped the line from still going, but it would have stopped him from creating all these other lines, correct, which I'm very curious who came out of that. Was wild to me is that the burst were back to back to back back. And that was only one year. I mean, it's like looking at the war. I mean, it's just, it really is just sadistic. It really, really, really is.
Most people were are otherworldly in their treachery. It never ceases to amaze me. Truly, truly. Wow. Life is full of things to manage. Your work, your family, your plans, and your treatment. Consider Kisimta, Ophatuma Mab 20mg injection. You can take it yourself from the comfort of home. If you're ready for something different, ask your health care provider about Kisimta, and check out the details at Kisimta.com, brought to you by Novartis Pharmaceuticals Corporation.
Well, this has been quite a time and also different than what my dad said that he knows, or what he thinks he knows of his genealogy. He was telling me some story about a black man with a white wife and they lived on a hill. And the black man had a shotgun. They knew not to come up to hill because it was married. But I think that it may have been mulatto. Because that was in the history too, right? Was it Betty? That was Betty mulatto? I can't remember. I know Geraldine's family said mulatto.
Right. And Geraldine's family, I mean, they were city folk. We had to go back back to get to Maryland and VA. They was in Philly and Maryland and then, oh man. I got a lot of curious what he was talking about. You said, what? I said, I'm curious what hill he was talking about. Yeah, I'll have my sister ask my aunt. But it's just so fascinating because you're like, well, first of all, I'm just learning a whole lot of stuff about myself all at one time.
Like, I feel like I just got into another nap. I mean, it's just like overkill in like the best way. Like I feel like I'm going to have a document too. There's a document that has even more stuff. These were just the highlights. These are just the highlights. What? Wow. Well, you're fabulous. And I think this is such an incredible skill to have. I mean, before we go, like, can you just tell me how you even got into this? Yeah, so it was kind of unintentional.
I got curious about my own grandparents. Because growing up, I realized maybe I was 12 years old or so. And I was like, wait a minute. I'm supposed to have two grandfathers. Why do I only have one? Okay. And so I started digging. And I found a man who looked a lot like me. I also found an uncle who looked a lot like a guy I dated. And that freaked me out. And then I was mad because I was like, what if we went to school together? Because we were only four years apart. I was so pissed.
Okay. I was very pissed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I shared this online. And I've always kind of had a knack for research. Being able to look at things objectively and just my ability to search and understand and have access to various databases. And it just came together to where I'm like, well, maybe I can offer this as a service to people like, I found this for me. I'm really good at it. Can I help you? Yeah. And then that's where we landed.
So how can people who are interested reach out to you to possibly get their own genealogy done? You can go to the website, Kimberly Renee.com, for slash genealogy. You'll find a form. Let me know you're interested. How many branches you want to help with? And then I'll reply back with a spreadsheet. And I'm a warning all the spreadsheets going to take some work. Yeah. Because I have to get the information from your head or from your family in order to research.
And I've had people say, well, I already have AncestShe.com. Like you realize an AncestShe is just one database? Yes. I use AncestShe sometimes. I like their search engine, but it's limited. And so a lot of what I do is kind of going outside of that. So you'll get a spreadsheet, complete it, pay your money, and I hook it. Yeah. There you go. Well, I feel hooked up, you know, took colonizers. But nonetheless, I just feel like the goal for so many of us is to make our ancestors proud.
And I feel like, you know, these ancestors who endured and continued to move forward and went through being tenant farmers and, you know, the great migration and pops who became a machinist. And Grandma Irma actually owned the house in Boston. And then my father sold it like a jackass instead of keeping it for the multitude of children that he has. And now he has two grandkids. But I like to think that I have done them proud. I like to think I've done them proud. So thank you for this.
And for tracing the tethers. I don't want us to get a copyright infringement. Using the tethers. Find your purpose at Grand Canyon University. For more information, visit gcu.edu.